Hayfa Bukhari, Employer Branding and Talent Attraction Lead @ Cognizant

Hey everyone, I'm Ingmar. I'm your host for today's episode of the Graduai Podcast, and with me here is Haifa from Cognizant. Haifa works in employer branding and talent attraction, so we can learn a lot about Cognizant and what it does today, but we'll also start with your journey because you have quite an interesting journey. Thanks for coming, Haifa.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's good to be here.

I'll start with You studied business management at Heriot-Watt University. Why did you pick business management? I also studied business management. I did it because I just thought it was something general.

Yeah, that's the same reason why I did it, to be honest. I wasn't really sure what to do, and it felt like it's a good rounded course, and I knew I could get into a job easier with a business management degree.

So that was the And also, so when you looked at your LinkedIn profile, you were engaged in like ISEC societies and some other societies.

Yeah.

Has that shaped your career journey somewhat?

Definitely. I didn't actually have the society at Heriot-Watt. I went to the one at Edinburgh University. So I would go after, like, get the bus and I would go straight after my classes. And yeah, there was a lot of good team-building skills. I managed to travel abroad. I went to Bahrain for 6 weeks and then I went to Indonesia. So yeah, it was a really good experience and I learned about different cultures and things like that. So I would really recommend joining societies because I learned so much from being part of it.

Oh wow. So via your society, you went on those travels to Bahrain and some other countries.

So they offer volunteer programs. So I did one volunteering program, which was in Bahrain. And then I went because I became part of the society itself and I was leading the marketing team within ISAC in the UK. So I got offered the position to go to Indonesia and like go and see the projects for 6 weeks. So I traveled around the country. So yeah, it was amazing.

And that was at the University of Edinburgh. And you said that you took the bus from Heriot-Watt.

Yeah, Heriot-Watt to Edinburgh. And then I went to Edinburgh anyway for my master's, so it was easier. Plus you weren't studying at the time at Edinburgh. Edinburgh. I just— I'm like my cousin, she was like, join Isaac, it's such a good one. She was at Edinburgh and I was like, okay, we don't have it in Heriot-Watt, so I'll just hop on the bus.

That is such a hack, I haven't heard.

Yeah, so find it in another university. If the society you want to go to isn't there, go to another one if you're allowed, of course.

No, it's great because we see more and more societies opening their offerings to students from other universities as well. And then that's That's really cool, that's interesting. I was also curious about your bachelor thesis. So the title of it is, I'll just read it out, you have it written down, "The decision-making process of international university students: A case of apparel clothing." Yeah. I had issues connecting those two topics together, maybe you can help us understand what that was about.

I was just really fascinated when I was in studying, there was just so many students from all backgrounds and I was observing the pattern of how they were shopping. I mean, they had a lot more disposable income than maybe some people. So I think I was just intrigued to see how that— what it was like while they were shopping around. So how they were impacted by the smell, the service, like what was their preference? So yeah, that's just something I was really fascinated by. So I ended up doing my dissertation around students. Yeah, so it was very cool and yeah, just a fun experience for me to learn and speak to students.

Were there any key insights from that thesis?

You could tell that I learned a lot about the understanding about stores and how the layout is, or even the sound. So if they play fast music, they just want you to come in and out. Whereas the music is slower. It's like they want you to take time and enjoy it. Smell plays a factor. Yeah, there's lots of different things. And because students have— like, international students tended to have a bit more money. They could buy— their spending power was stronger. So they would maybe go for more luxury. You'd see, like, as an example, Middle Eastern students, they would have some money to go maybe to Louis Vuitton. Spend that money. So like there was a different thing. So yeah, it was just very fascinating and it's something, I mean, I'm still interested by because I love the whole like consumer, understanding consumer behavior. That was something I was very passionate about while I was at university as well.

Interesting. And maybe that already kind of sparked your interest in marketing in general. Yeah. And then you decided to pick marketing as your master's subject.

Yeah. I just fell in love with consumer branding in third year. And then from there I was like, I need to continue with this. And then I went on to do my master's at Edinburgh University.

And there I have another interesting thesis that I have to read the title out loud again. It's called Exposure of Ideal Body Images in Advertisements and the Impact of Bicultural South Asian Females in Scotland.

Yeah, that's correct.

It's a very niche topic, but I feel like you need to pick niche topics in master's thesis.

Yeah, yeah.

Super curious. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Yeah, so I, again, when I growing up being a South Asian female in Scotland, I didn't really see people of same colour or background as me. So again, I just wanted to get a more understanding about people like myself, what they see in images, advertisements, marketing campaigns. How do they, can they relate to people that they see? So if you see a woman in the Western media, how do you feel about that? Does she do they influence how you feel about your own self? And I, most of the time, most of the responses I got was that they didn't feel that they could connect. So yeah, it was again, very interesting. I got people from Bangladeshi background, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, and it was just, yeah, it was super fun to do. So I think both of my dissertations are quite different, but yeah, it just gives, it was just like really something I hadn't read about. And I guess you're supposed to do something that again is something you haven't really seen. But yeah, it was fun. I mean, it was a lot of work, but it was a good experience for me to learn about, again, consumers and how they behave in the marketing space.

Cool. How big is the South Asian community in Scotland?

Oh gosh, it is pretty small. We are, yeah, I wouldn't know exact numbers, but I'll say Maybe like 30 to 40%. Yeah. In Scotland it is quite small. So growing up I definitely did feel like I was a, yeah, one in a quite a few. So, but in London it's completely different. It's so diverse. Yeah.

Okay. Interesting. And then, and I think this is now when I looked at your history, I think this is interesting. After your master's, you then became a telephone interviewer for a research company, I think called Ipsos.

That was actually during— Yeah, so I was also doing it alongside. That was also quite a different kind of experience.

Exactly.

Working in a call center. It was not the easiest job. So loads of respect to people who work in that job because you get a lot of people not wanting to talk to you, actually. So you've got to be very patient and kind.

Those are the most badass jobs.

Yeah.

And I think nowadays employers also view those jobs as, hey, you learn so much. You actually become an amazing communicator. You deal with rejection all the time. But what made you pick that job? Was it just that you needed to support yourself during—

Yeah, it was a bit of support and a bit of just getting myself out there. I just, I was at maybe midway in my studies and I was like, I need to start to get experience. I knew very early on that experience will get you very far, and that's why I joined societies. That's why I took part-time jobs outside of university to get exposure. And then when I was ready to graduate and get a job, I already had something on my plate so that I could sell myself, sell myself to employers.

I think that's also how people nowadays should view or think about, especially in this tough labor market as it is today. But we'll get to that as well.

Yeah.

And so then, could you tell us a bit more about your first graduate job, like full-time role?

Yes, it was in a small company called IEDP. It's a publishing company. So what they did is they created articles around executive education. It's again a very niche field. It was a small little office in Edinburgh. I had a great manager at the time, and so I was doing all the marketing. So again, I was supporting with editing the articles, posting it out on social media channels. Yeah, that was my first job and it was nice.

And what was the process of landing that job like? Do you remember what— maybe do you remember how many jobs you applied to in the process?

A lot. It took time. It really did. I think there's this false perception sometimes when you're going to university and there's this expectation that, yeah, I'm going to get a job straight away because I've got a degree and I'm great. But when the reality hits, it's actually everybody's got a degree now and you really need to stand out.

And you even had a master's degree.

Yeah, and I had a master's, but I still didn't have enough, I felt. To give that extra edge. So I was applying for months. It did take me time, and I did some volunteering in the meantime, and that really boosted my confidence and then gave me again something on my CV. But yeah, it was quite a journey. So I think you've— I was looking back, I wish I'd started sooner looking for jobs. I was kind of like enjoying my— I was in that kind of I was in my honeymoon phase thinking, oh, I'll get one just like that. But yeah, it does take some time. But when I got it, it was, yeah, again, it was pretty like the interview process was pretty decent. I was fortunate that I had a great manager and they were super supportive. But yeah, it was a lesson learned is to kind of plan ahead.

Plan ahead a bit more.

Yeah.

When during your master's, when did you then actively go out and started searching for jobs? When it kind of hit you as like, oh, I gotta maybe start doing something now?

Uh, so I graduated, uh, I think the November of 2020— 2014. And so I kind of took it easy because I was like, oh, I've worked so hard, so I'm gonna take it easy. And then I think it hit me early 2015, and I was like, it's been 3 months and I haven't had much of a response. And so then I started looking at volunteering and things because everyone just kept saying, you don't have enough experience. Um, but I was like, of course I'm not going to because I've been studying all, all these years. Um, so yeah, I think after 3 months, and I was like, no, I need to get a move on. And then that's why I took a volunteering position, and that really helped. Um, and then I got the role with, um, as a marketing assistant. Um, yeah.

And I think that has even intensified now in today's world where companies are, you know, they don't really get the skill sets or experience that they wish young people would bring into the organization by doing a bachelor's or a master's. So oftentimes you're trapped in this, you don't have any experience, but then how do I get an entry-level position if I don't have experience? You know, like I need experience. To get experience.

Exactly. And that's why I've seen— I remember while I was studying, I met someone and they were doing a placement year in their third year, and I was thinking that is the best thing that you study, you get some hands-on experience, and then you finish off and do your dissertation. So I wish they did more of that. They had university degrees like that, that you actually have— you're expected to go out, get some experience, and then come back, and then you've got a round perspective. Yeah, so I think universities need to think about more, yeah, doing more experience.

Completely agree.

Yeah.

Then if you kind of fast forward a bit, you then started working at universities.

Yeah, yeah, I did. I wanted to get into, yeah, again, recruitment marketing, but I fell into it a different way. So I, I, I saw, I think I saw somebody had a job in in a similar space. It was like a recruitment for administrations for universities, and they were traveling all over the world. So that was really my reason. So I was like, I want to travel, I want to meet students, and I just thought it was a great opportunity. But it didn't work out that way. So yeah, but I still gained a lot from working in the university space because again, there's lots of things that you don't know that happens behind the scenes in a university. And I also worked in events, and that taught me a lot to be better organized and things like that. So yeah, I think I initially thought that was where I wanted to be in higher education, but I soon realized actually it wasn't the space for me. So then I moved out of that.

Events teach you the hard way.

Yeah, it was tough. Again, so much respect for people who work in events. They have to deal with a lot of things and it all looks pretty in the end, but again, behind the scenes, the hours you put in and the effort that goes in is a lot more than it shows. Yeah.

Was that also the first part of time where you got in kind of touch with the recruiting space or early careers market?

Yeah, that was it. I was sitting with the like my employee— not employees, my counterparts, they were working in admissions. And then I started to think this was potential, but then I felt like it wasn't my time. I felt this wasn't the right time for me, and I still needed more experience in other places. And I was still actually not doing marketing, and I still wanted to do marketing. But again, people were saying, you don't have experience in marketing. So I left higher education. I was like, okay, I'm going to go do an internship somewhere else and work for a startup company. And that's what got me my first step into a more rounded marketing role. So I worked for LettingWeb, and that was a company that—

was it fintech?

Yeah. Oh no, no, that was another one. That was after, a bit after that. But letting webby. It was basically when you're finding a place to stay throughout Scotland, like renting space, you can use that as an app to help you and stuff. Yeah.

And now you still work in marketing, but in a different context. It's employer marketing. Yeah. How has that happened?

Yeah, again, very accidental. I worked for Veni in a startup as well in Edinburgh and I was doing all things marketing because working in a startup, you just, you get your hands in everything and you meet with everyone. And I was doing the day-to-day marketing things for the product itself, the service. But then I realized there was a space that I could, when new employees were coming in, they weren't getting that kind of welcoming feeling of being part of the company. So we did, I, like I said, have like an onboarding process, a playbook, social media posts to welcome, like, oh, this is who's in the team. And realize, wait, this is an actual thing where you can do it full-time and you're not selling a product or service. You're, you're, it's a more people-to-people interaction. And I was like, wait, actually, I want to do this instead. Um, and then it just happened. So, um, so then I started looking for roles with, uh, employer branding and recruitment marketing. So again, very accidental.

Cool. And you're doing it for, for Cognizant? Yeah, I've heard of the company before, but I I don't really know what they do. Could you tell us a bit more about that?

Yeah, so essentially it's an IT company based out of the US. There is a huge company, it's around 300,000 of us, and the best way to explain it is that it's like a company that looks at AI solutions. So I can give you—

Nice buzzword.

Yes, I can give you examples. So you must have heard of Aston Martin. So we work alongside— Yeah, it's honestly great. I've been there and I've actually driven Aston Martin. Yeah. So we kind of behind the scenes trying to find solutions to make their engines work smarter, faster. We work with the FA, so the Women's Football Association as well. Again, to find— I think we found some app that helps people when they want to like book classes to help them learn football skills, you know, when the Pandemic Cafe, there was COVID. We worked with the NHS to help with the COVID app as well. So there's so many things you don't know, but COVID and Cognizant has been a part of. And we do this at a global level. So we have so many different companies that we work with and try to find solutions again to help them in their day-to-day problems. That's cool.

So it's basically a consulting firm. We can work on multiple projects, multiple clients, but more so where you're building products like software engineers and you—

Okay. Yeah, so we have different people. So we've got people from consultancy, uh, software engineers, um, yeah, it really ranges from all different aspects. So yeah, that's why it's so big. But again, I feel like we're not as known in some regions than others. I think within the, um, like within India, we are so well known, and maybe US as well. UK and Europe market is still growing, But yeah, it's getting there. We're— yeah, this is why people like me exist, so we can tell you about it.

Putting the word on the podcast.

Yeah.

And for people who might be interested, maybe, is there something that really stands out about Cognizant's culture where it's like that's really unique and different as compared to other companies? Maybe something that you've experienced also throughout your career journey.

Yeah, I would say it's that entrepreneurial spirit because it's kind of got that feeling like it's a startup, but it's on a big scale. And that's why— a reason why I joined it, because I love the idea of being in the tech space. And they're always asking people in the company, like, you know, do you have a new idea? How do we bring this forward? How can people from different teams work together? And I really like that. And it's global. And again, that's something I really value because I've got colleagues in the US, Singapore, and it's just so fun to interact with people from different places. Again, there's loads of opportunities. So yeah, I'm very grateful that I've got access to all this like knowledge and expertise on a global scale.

Amazing. Nowadays, a lot of young people thinking, if I join this company, do I have to be in the office all day long? And then you also have the ones that are like, I want to be in the office every single day because I want to get to know people, I want to talk to them.

Yeah.

What's your policy like when it comes to Um, it'll depend.

So because I work in, um, like the corporate side, so it's, um, it's usually like 2 days a week. Um, but if you're with client side, then it will depend. I know that sometimes people have to go in maybe once a week or even 3 times, so it will vary. Um, but yeah, we're encouraged to at least come to Cognizant office like twice a week, which I think is, is decent because you still get some time to to be at home if that's more convenient, but then go to the office, meet your colleagues, have some nice lunch. Yeah.

For anyone who's like listening now, could you give any best practices, tips on how to stand out in their application if they're applying for Cognizant's role? And what are some of the key kind of traits or characteristics that you look for in people?

Okay. Yeah, I just think do your research. I mean, that's always key. Like, see what we've done. There's so much great content we have out there on our, like, career site. LinkedIn is a really good tool. Look at what— where people are going to events. We're always showcasing, you know, what our offerings are to stand out. Again, I think always learning. I think that's really crucial. Showing that, you know, you're— if you're in a tech background, that you're using, that you're looking at what's happening in the market space. Things are changing so fast, so people need to— you do need to keep up to date with yourself, with what's happening in the market, and with your skill set as well. So those are, yeah, key things I'd say to, to be prepared for when you're applying at Cognizant.

Cool. So go to events, I think that's a good one.

Yeah, definitely.

Do your research. Is there— well, coming to an end already. Is there anything else that you'd like to share about Cognizant or anything else you'd like students to know who are listening to this?

I'd say, yeah, just talking about the networking part, I think that is really important these days. People don't like value about just going to meet someone new, just putting yourself out there. I know it can be nerve-wracking, especially early in your career, because you feel like, oh, I don't have enough to say or so, but I think even just being in the space, not necessarily maybe being ready to give your expertise, but I think being in an environment where you're learning from people as well. So absorbing the information, volunteer for things, get involved with things that when you're even when you're starting in your role, don't just be confined to your team, be willing to go meet people. Like when I go to the office, I'll try and say hello to someone new that is in a completely different team. And it always works out because you end up you know, helping them in some way, or they're helping you in some way. So I definitely think that that needs to be, um, more valued because there's so much you can gain from just building a network with someone new.

Um, great. I love that. Um, stop overthinking and start doing, and then it will naturally develop. Um, thanks so much for coming to the podcast, Haifa. It's been great to have you.

Thank you so much.