Holly Hobbs, Speaker and Founder @ Apprentivia

Hey everyone, welcome back to The Graduate Guide. I'm your host today, Charlie, and I'm joined by the amazing Holly Hobbs, founder of Apprentivia. Holly, would you like to introduce yourself?

Yes, thank you so much for having me. My name is Holly Hobbs, obviously. I am the founding director of ApprentiVR, and it is an employer branding agency helping employers reach aspiring apprentices by TikTok.

Nice, nice. Yeah, amazing journey you guys are on. Could you tell the, the listeners at home a bit more about kind of how you came to found ApprentiVR?

Yeah, sure. So I used to be an apprentice myself, so I was a degree apprentice at Microsoft soft, and I really struggled to get into that apprenticeship. I faced over 30 rejections before getting into it, and I quickly realized that the way they're marketed and the misconceptions people have isn't really hitting the spot, and employers could be doing more to really reach that demographic, reach new people, help people understand the route better. And so I was like, yeah, I wanna, I wanna do this in a different way, in a way that is really reaching the people through someone that's already done it before and already lived that experience.

Yeah, no, I love that. So kind of how do you guys do that then? Is there anything more you can share about how you actually approach that and how you're trying to change the way that it works?

I think a lot of it's about sharing people's stories, so making it more authentic and from someone's heart, less scripted, less like corporate shot videos, more like off the cuff, um, just going to offices, construction sites, like all around basically, and just filming truly what it's like rather than these aesthetic corporate shot type videos.

Yeah, no, 100% agree with that. I think often— we were speaking before and we're saying how often the issue is that companies release job descriptions and kind of explanations of what your role will be like, but often it's not necessarily accurate and it's also not the most engaging to actually— it's actually weird. So yeah, no, I completely agree with that. Going back to when you apprentice and when you decided to become an apprentice, what was the kind of thought process behind taking that path versus, I guess, the more traditional at the time, especially the more traditional path in going to uni?

So for me, I always knew that I didn't want to get into debt. That was one. And I didn't have a real clear idea of, okay, this is the exact course I want to do because I want to go into X, Y, and Z. So it was like, if I don't have a clear idea, why am I going to be spending that type of money? Um, and I'm someone that prefers hands-on learning. That's sort of why a lot of people do choose apprenticeships. I just want to get straight into it. I want to learn on the job rather than the textbook sort of way. That's just how I learn best, really.

Yeah. So in terms of— I think there'd be a lot of students listening, especially those that are maybe in sixth form now preparing for the A-levels, who are considering what path to take. What would be your recommendation on what to consider then? Would it be just kind of whether you have a clear career path in your mind, or is there anything else that you would recommend to students to think about when they're deciding between choosing between university or apprenticeships?

It's a good question. I think, yeah, you need to think about your learning style, as we've sort of mentioned. You need to have that clear end goal and vision in mind. I think a lot of people just decide to go to university for the experience, and personally, I think if you don't have that end goal, then you can almost get that experience by like being friends with people that are going to university anyway. Just go out with them and, and have that experience anyway rather than paying all that debt, um, sorry, getting into all that debt. And yeah, so the— think about your end goal, think about how you learn best, and In relation to the end goal, your time is really important. Time is more valuable than money, so it's not just money you're spending, you're spending your time these early years of your life doing something that you're not 100% sure if you're going to use. I would also speak to people that have already gone down the pathways so you can get two different perspectives, because it's all well and good your teacher's telling you, but they haven't done both. So if you're getting opinions from people that have gone down both, you can see what it's truly like rather than just reading job descriptions and things that universities or companies put out. You want to get the real life experience.

How would you recommend students do that? Just through somewhere like LinkedIn, essentially?

Yes, I would recommend going to careers fairs. That's a really good one. There's loads of apprenticeship ones now, and also obviously university ones, and speaking to the students that are on the stalls. And then also LinkedIn is a gold mine. Before I got into Microsoft, I messaged the apprentices that were already there and just asked them for their tips and advice to help me stand out, but also to help me gauge if this is something that I actually wanted to do as well.

I've got to say, you're ahead of the game there having LinkedIn at that stage, because I don't think I had LinkedIn then and definitely missed out on that ability to connect with people that were kind of maybe going to the same uni or had been to the same uni I was planning on going to, to understand a bit more. So no, I love that. And then in terms of your apprenticeship at Microsoft, obviously, what was your role there and kind of how did you, how did you find that experience? How did you find the apprenticeship itself?

So my role was in Sales Excellence. It's a bit confusing to explain, but ultimately I worked in the consulting division of Microsoft, and I was doing data stuff with the sales pipeline, and I was doing a bit of creative work as well because I'm very creative. And the experience was amazing. Like, I always say that I wouldn't be where I am today without that apprenticeship. It taught me so much in terms of business, and the, the teachings that I use today aren't really from the course, to be fair. They're actually from the work, and that's why I'm That's why I chose the route, because I'm more hands-on learner. But I always tell this story. When I first started, my manager was like, oh, you're going to be managing the sales pipeline hygiene. And I was like, well, pipeline is on a house, a pipe, and hygiene is like cleaning something. I literally had no clue about anything, and I wouldn't have been able to start and grow this business without that basic knowledge because that's basic knowledge for, you know, business. So yeah, it taught me so much, helped me grow my network. The guy that was my manager's manager's manager, he was like quite high up. I speak to him sometimes now through LinkedIn. We're still connected. He supported me on this journey. So it's— yeah, I would never change it, and I'm really, really happy that I went down that route. and it really set me up.

That's amazing to hear. So it sounds like your manager was very supportive at that early stage where you didn't understand or didn't have the knowledge necessary. Were they very supportive in helping you develop that and kind of how did, how did they support you in that essentially?

Sure, so yeah, she was very supportive, yeah, and I think she just had a lot of patience, but also she had the right mix of patience but helping me get out of my comfort zone and sort of being autonomous and doing it by myself. So yeah, there was a right mix there of her supporting but giving me my independence.

Nice, that's really good to hear. Um, so yeah, in terms of the apprenticeships, I'm going to ask a question here that I think I would have liked to have the answer to when I was considering uni or apprenticeships. Um, so I think one of the biggest fears I would have had is the fact that maybe I would have felt like I'm not necessarily mature enough when I finish my A-levels to go into the workplace. Would you say that's an issue? Would you say that actually these apprenticeships also allow people to kind of form and become more mature, and in a similar way that you can throughout university. Would you say that that's still okay, or do you think that you have to be a bit more mature before going into an apprenticeship?

Could I ask you a question before?

Yeah.

When you say mature, what kind of stage was you at with your maturity?

I think the, the biggest issue that springs to mind is I don't know if I'd have been organized enough. And so I think uni was really formative in me in terms of actually organizing my life, making sure I'm on top of what I need to do, which then meant as soon as I then joined Hustle, I was able to kind of hit the ground running because I'd already had those years of balancing uni with other priorities. Um, but coming straight out of high school, out of finishing my A-levels, I definitely didn't have that. So I just, yeah, I guess I wonder whether those early stages at the apprenticeship would also allow you to give you that kind of flexibility to allow you to make mistakes early on, essentially.

Yeah, okay. And did you move out when you went to uni?

No, no, because of COVID I ended up staying at home.

Oh, I see. Yeah, so yeah, it's a really great question. I think, yeah, it ultimately, it's not for everyone. Yeah, it's not. I'm not going to sit here and be like, yeah, it's fine, it's easy. Like, it's not. It's tough, it's demanding, and it can be challenging. Well, it should be really, because you need to get out of your comfort zone, you need to learn new things, and you need to be challenged. But ultimately, I think that employers do understand that you're a school leaver or a college leaver, so they are going to put things in place to support you. There is so many things that employers are doing, including workshops when you first start. When I first started, there was 2 weeks of onboarding, and we had many, like, masterclass-type training things on different subjects like personal branding and all these type of things to help us set up for success. So I think it's also about communication as well. Employers are going to be supportive, they are going to be understanding, but It's up to you to communicate where you're struggling as well, where you might feel like you want a bit more support at the same time, but you'll also get support from your, like, college, training provider, university, whatever type of level you're doing as well. So there is— it's your employer, you'll get support from your training provider, and it's just about being open and honest yourself, and there is definitely room to make mistakes. Yeah, 100%. Like, they are not expecting anyone to be perfect. And actually, in my cohort, there were people that didn't have any work experience before as well. So they're not expecting you to have all this knowledge. Yeah, at all. That's why they want to bring you in, because they want to train you up to be, you know, I guess in a more specific way than what universities would train you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, 100%, that makes complete sense. I think that Maybe as well, because you're put in that position where you're a bit more uncomfortable, you maybe grow quicker as well.

Yeah, 100%. You have so much room for growth.

Yeah.

And getting out your comfort zone is so powerful.

Yeah, 100% agree. So in terms of Apprentivia then, at what stage of your apprenticeship did you realise, I need to go away and found this business?

Oh, do you know what? I think it was probably halfway when I was at the halfway point. So like 6 months in. So I was on a degree apprenticeship, I'll be honest, and I didn't complete the full degree. Because I learned so much in that first year. It's why I'm such a big advocate. And I was like, 6 months in, I was like, right, I'm having this idea for this business. And I founded it and I started working on it. It got a bit busier, and I was basically almost a year in, and I was like, right, well, I've either got to invest 100% of my time into this degree apprenticeship because you can't half-ass it or I need to go and put 100% of my time into this business. And so, yeah, I just went for it, basically.

Now, how did you go about making that decision? I mean, that's a very tough decision to make.

I know, it is really tough. There was obviously a few key components, but I think one, I was just young, I was living at home in my parents' house, so I was like, what have I got to lose, really? And two, I felt like people just needed my help because I'd already started posting online actually as an apprentice. So I started my TikTok account already and I was just gaining traction quite quickly and realising that what I'd been through, people needed support with. Yeah, the rejections-wise. And yeah, I just, yeah, I just thought, you only live once, you've got to do it, really.

No, 100%. So did it start then as more of a It sounds like it started more as you creating content to help people understand apprenticeships more and then kind of transformed into what it is now.

It did, yeah. So I never started the apprenticeship like, right, I'm gonna leave in a year, I'm gonna leave early, I'm gonna do this business. It literally started like, right, I just want to create some content about what I do to raise awareness of the route, and then it gained traction and then more ideas started to come in and brand partnerships, and I was like, yeah, this actually needs to be a thing. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, obviously it sounds like you kind of started this business as more of a side hustle to begin with, and then it really progressed into what it is today. Would you say that for students out there who are maybe have this business idea, would you say it's a good way to get started rather than thinking about whether they should go 100% in on that business, just starting in a more, I guess, time-effective way and then building from there and seeing how it progresses?

Yes, I do think so. I think that's an important thing to do just so that you've got that security. But also, if you have an idea, make sure that you go all in in that idea. And it's also important to not have like a plan B. Yeah, because if you have a plan B, it's almost like, well, do I put 100% effort into that? Because if it fails, I'll just do that anyway. I think for me, I always never had a plan B. I was like, this business, it's gonna work, I'm gonna make it work. And so I put my everything into it, and so far it's, it's paid off.

So in terms of that, how did you— especially early on when you were still doing your apprenticeship and creating this content on the side, was there any ways that you kept yourself accountable, or was it just more that you enjoyed doing that and so continued to do that, and then it was only at the point where you wanted to found the business did you then kind of become more, more accountable for what you was doing, essentially?

Yeah, I think for me, I'm quite an ambitious person, so I let the ambition make me, like, drive me towards doing the work, so I don't find it really, really difficult to get up and make sure I'm completing stuff and hold myself accountable, really. So I think that's why I speak about the vision and the goal and the career end sort of goal, because it's important to have that in mind so that when you wake up, you're just fired and you're ready to go. Obviously not every day is going to be like that, and that's why you have to rely consistency and discipline. But yeah, that for me gets me up every day and keeps me going. And obviously, like, scheduling your time and things like that is really important.

But essentially it comes down to having a mission that you really believe in.

Yeah, essentially it does. Yeah.

Okay, no, I love that. So yeah, in terms of Apprentivia then, yeah, give the listeners a bit of a run-through about the journey so far, where you guys are right now, where you kind of have progressed from.

Yeah, so that's an interesting one. And something I wanted to speak about. It's been a long ride. So the business has been going for about 2 and a half years now. When I first started, it was nothing like it was now. The plans at the start were very different. I was thinking of doing things more focused towards the young people rather than selling towards employers, which I'm doing now. And it's taken a lot of turns and twists. And when I first started, I was like, right, I'm going to launch this ebook. So I first launched with an ebook and overnight it's gonna make £30,000 in sales. I couldn't have been more wrong. It took me a long time to reach that. And yeah, I think ambition is really good and I am glad in hindsight that I was quite naive because naivety is actually a good thing because it means you're just gonna go for it. But yeah, I think it's important to realise that not everything is going to be an overnight success. It's not going to happen overnight. It takes a lot more work. I think social media plays a big part in thinking if you launch something online, a product, it's going to blow up, you're going to make thousands and thousands. That's just not the case a lot of the time, and it takes a lot, a lot of work. So yeah, it is really different to where I am now. Now I'm working B2B with employers, creating content for them, helping them onboard their new apprentices. Um, but I wouldn't change it at all. I'm really happy because every, like, mistake and every rejection helps you get to where you are.

You mentioned that there was a lot of pivots, I guess you could say, along the way. How did you, how did you come to this idea now? Was it just through a case of just trying and trying until you found something that somewhat stuck, or was there anything else that you did?

I think it's a bit of both, trying and trying, and when I realized that's not going to work, that's not going to work, that's not going to work. And I remember one day I was just sat in the office And literally the idea just sprung to me because I tried so much and I was like, right, really, what? I had to sit down and think, what can I do here? And also it took me a long time to make it lucrative and monetize it because I had no previous, like, running a business experience and selling something. So yeah, there was just a lot of rethinking things, trial and error.

Yeah, yeah, that makes complete sense. I guess one thing that I would be curious to hear is what was the biggest mistake you made throughout that journey and what did you learn from that?

Oh, that's a really good question. Biggest mistake, I think one of the things is sort of what I mentioned before, it's not really a mistake, I guess maybe mistake's the wrong word, but something that you was completely wrong about.

I think there's a— obviously you're on your first, your first experience running a business. I mean, there's a lot of students out there that will have preconceptions about what it's going to be like. Maybe instead of mistake, what was the one thing that you was the most wrong about and have kind of learned from?

I think definitely that I was going to launch and make a lot of money. Yeah, that was like, when I look back, I'm like, wow, what the hell was she thinking? But that was— I always think back and think, wow, like, that was definitely something I was so wrong about. And how long it's taken me to start even paying myself I don't even pay myself like a proper, proper wage, but getting to the point where I can at least pay myself some money in terms of not reinvesting it. Like, my company was making money, but you know, you, you have to reinvest a lot of the money you do make. And that's one thing I thought to myself, you know, I'll start making money and I'll just have it all in my bank. It's not your money, it's the company's money. And so you have to make a certain amount of money to reinvest and grow, but then also pay yourself as well.

Yeah.

So you're not just gonna have this lavish lifestyle. You have to reinvest and get to a certain point until you're gonna get to that lifestyle. It takes a lot of hard work.

I think one thing from your journey that really stands out to me, something that I really admire about first-time founders like yourself, is the fact that you were able to push through not having money, not having any disposable income, which is especially hard at a younger age when you've not had previous roles to build up that, that money. I guess, how did you push through that? How did you kind of keep going even when I guess everything around you doesn't feel, doesn't feel amazing? And also you had the expectation of getting rich overnight. How did you keep pushing through that?

Yeah, I think one, the vision and the ambition just kept me going because I believed wholeheartedly that this is going to work. And that's really, really important. Like your belief and your self-talk is so important. And also I did work one day a week for my local council. I was still self-employed, I wasn't employed by them, but I was mentoring students to get into apprenticeships. So that was one day a week. So that was something that got me going, um, and got me by basically, that I knew was going to be coming in because I was trading my time for money still. Yeah, whilst I was building up clientele. So that did help, although it was, you know, not thousands and it was small. It definitely got me by as well as the ambition.

Okay, no, 100% agree with that. I think that the biggest thing, as we've said so many times now, is that mission and being really driven by that. In terms of looking forward then, what does the future look like for Apprentivia?

Yeah, oh, I've got so many plans, like literally so many. I could be here all day. I think doing things much on a much bigger scale than what I'm doing now, so not just on TikTok, on multiple platforms, maybe having my own platform in the future, making the campaign so much bigger than what they are now, hiring people and just working with loads of different companies. And also not just apprenticeships, maybe grad schemes and things like that.

Nice. No, I love that.

It's always good to have loads of different plans and see what the future brings.

In terms of the companies that you work with now, are they companies that have always offered apprenticeships, or at least offered them for a while, or are you actually working with some that may be really interesting thinking in starting an apprenticeship scheme and then come to you to help them do that?

At the moment, it is solely just businesses that have launched an apprenticeship scheme for quite a while now, but I will definitely be getting into the more, like, starters on the whole apprenticeship front.

That's good to hear. Yeah, that's good to hear. In terms of, obviously you have a lot of insight into the space, do you feel like the amount of companies that are offering apprenticeships is growing, or is it something that there's still a lot of issues in terms of getting more companies to actually buy into this?

Yeah, really great question. I would say a bit of both. It is definitely growing. Companies are seeing how impactful this is on business, but also there isn't loads and loads because the market is so competitive from what we've seen from the student side, and there are young people that just aren't getting into the schemes because there are so many people applying for them. So there's not enough supply and demand, basically, but There have been changes with the levy recently. The government have just invested £60 million into the whole space, so I think a lot of businesses are going to be taking them up more now.

That's good to hear. I mean, I don't think that's anything against apprenticeships because the same is true for people graduating from uni and trying to get grad roles, so it's tough, I think, for anyone. I guess going back to that earlier stage when a student is actually applying for apprenticeships, is there any tips that you can give to those students about how they can maybe improve the likelihood that they're successful?

Definitely, I'm so passionate about this. I would say one of my biggest tips is researching the company. A lot of people will just go on their website, research their core values and the basic stuff that everyone else is going to be speaking about. That's not enough, unfortunately, nowadays. When I was applying for Microsoft, I was obviously, as I mentioned before, messaging the current apprentices on LinkedIn, asking them for tips. I was also looking at their social media, the recent news. I was looking at projects that the company was involved in with their internal and external stakeholders. I was knowing key people's names in the companies. I was name-dropping in the interview, not that I knew people, yeah, but I've just done research about it and the interviewers were like, oh, I didn't even know that person's name, and things like that. I was doing things that are really outside the box and that is what you should be doing in assessment centres and in these recruitment processes. Because you need to stand out amongst other candidates. So researching is one way that really, really helped me do that, as well as messaging the current apprentices on LinkedIn.

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So I guess in terms of apprenticeships, more than anything, especially more than grad roles, it's not really the experience that's going to set you apart. It's about, I guess, the way you, you kind of present yourself in those interviews, the way you're able to actually show that you care and you want that role.

It's about your skills.

Okay.

It's what— that's what they're interested in. So That might be skills you've learned through school, hobbies, it doesn't have to be paid work experience. They want to know your skills and your potential, that's what they're looking for. So they want to see your attitude, what type of attitude have you got, are you a go-getter, have you got a growth mindset? They want to know about you as a person because then they're going to be able to see, okay, can we mould this person into our future CEO or whoever it is.

Are there any skills in particular that you'd recommend to students to actually try to develop and that you've seen are particularly useful?

I think communication is so important and how you speak. So when I was preparing, I wrote out a list of interview questions that I thought I could have been asked after research as well, and then I wrote out my answers to each of those questions. I'd recite them, I'd then hand it to my mum and go, look, Mum, can you ask me these? I'd say it out loud, I'd record myself, do that over and over again so I felt more confident. And also get some more industry-specific skills. So if you're applying for marketing, go on a marketing course or YouTube and get— there's so many free courses out there. Get something specific, work on communication skills. Um, what other skills would I say? Communication is really important. I think as well as on the communication part, a lot of people think they have to be the most dominant person in the room at an assessment centre, for example. That's not the case. This is really important. They want you to just be a team player, and they, they don't want you to be the most dominant person in the room controlling the whole group. Just be yourself. And make sure everyone's voices are heard ultimately.

Yeah, no, I completely agree with that point. I think being a good listener is just as important as being a good speaker. But that actually brings me to something that I found really interesting when I was looking through your LinkedIn profile before, before this podcast, was that you have under your education section, Holly Hobbs, not all education comes from the system. How do you go about kind of that self-development? How do you make sure that you're developing these skills on a regular basis?

I love this question. Yeah, I'm really passionate about this. I think not all education, as you said, comes from the education system. I think people have a lot of part to play in their development, and a lot of people don't realize that. They think they have to go to college or university to develop themselves. How I do it is podcasts like this one, YouTube, books— so important for me. I read a lot, a lot of books. I do things like Toastmasters, that's a speaking club, yeah, I don't know, just to get myself out my comfort zone. And it's also about who I surround myself with, so I've completely up-leveled my friendship group. And you're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with, so for me, I want to be surrounding my time with people that speak about the same things. Also on that personal self-development journey. So all of those things mixed together helped me uplevel, basically.

Yeah, on that last point about kind of upleveling your friendship group, I think that's an area that there'll be young people out there that are starting to think, okay, maybe I need to do that. Maybe if I want to achieve my goals, I need to kind of surround myself with people that are more ambitious. How did you find that process? Was there any kind of advice you could give to students that may be thinking about doing that and kind of how they can go for it? Because it must be quite a tough process, right?

It is tough because you're almost like shedding old skin.

Yeah.

Um, for me it was about meeting new people, obviously. And people think to meet new people you have to go to these networking groups where hundreds of people are. Actually, that's not the case. One of my best friends now is actually my hairdresser, and she is on the same vibe as me. Like, we're both on this self-development journey. So I think just if you're vibing with someone, ask them for a coffee, ask them to go out for some drinks, dinner, whatever floats your boat. That's what I did every time that I connected with someone on that level and I thought we could really, you know, improve together and work together. I just was bold and just thought, you know what, like, just ask them because the worst they can say is no, and then okay, I'll just get on with my life. You know what I mean?

Find someone else that will.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I appreciate it can be, it can be tough, and I think just having honest conversations with people is really important. Yeah, if you're— yeah, if you feel like the friendship isn't really going anywhere.

Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. Just to wrap up, is there any final piece of advice you'd like to give to young people listening today? Something that maybe you'd have loved to hear as an 18-year-old?

Oh, okay, I think one piece of advice would be to— if you don't know what you want to do with your life, just work on your mindset. This is really, really important. And work on your belief system. Um, there are two different things about you. Like, you should work on your values and your beliefs. Your beliefs are who you think you are and things that might have been portrayed onto you by your parents or whatnot. And your values are who you are and who you want to be. And setting those is really, really important. And sometimes beliefs can hinder us and hinder our growth because we might have limiting beliefs. Yeah. So I think it's really important to be honest with yourself and notice when you have patterns that aren't really serving you. That's really, really important. And just know that you can create your own reality whenever you want. You, you're, you're the creator of your life, so make sure you have beliefs that are in accordance to that and don't let things hold you back. A lot of people think, I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, I can't do this. You can do it. So yeah, change those beliefs.

I love that. I think that's a great way to wrap things up and hopefully motivates the young people listening today to go away and have a great day. Um, but yeah, thanks to everyone for listening, um, and we'll see you next time. Yeah, no, thanks for coming on.