James Mitra, Founder & CEO @ JBM

Welcome back to The Graduate Guide. Today we're joined by James. James, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Thank you very much for having me, really appreciate it. It's good to be here.

Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you on. I think a great place to start is, uh, your company JBM. Just a quick overview, what is JBM and why are you building it?

JBM is an executive search firm, so we work with high-growth startups, predominantly VC-backed startups, on leadership hires. So everything from CEO roles, COO roles, operational leadership, and then go-to-market hires, so whether that's sales or marketing. Um, so yeah, that's what we do, um, and we work with some of the fastest growing companies in Europe, typically in the VC speak. It's from sort of Series A to Series C, so well-funded, growing rapidly. And one thing that's really important to me is that often, wherever possible, they are mission-driven, they are purpose-driven businesses doing some good in the world. So yeah, we do that. But there's been a wild ride, a roller coaster, you know, um, over the last 12 years. Um, but, uh, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, I, I, I basically love connecting exceptional talent to incredible companies, and we've had the real privilege of doing that for a number of years now.

Yeah, before we dig deeper into that roller coaster journey, I want to go back to the beginning of it. So you're out studying at Leeds, studying history like myself. Where was your, your head at in terms of careers when you were back at university? What were you thinking your career might pan out to be?

Well, as you know, history is a, is a great degree, but, um, you know, I was often told, are you going to be a teacher? Are you going to work in a museum or something? But that was never going to be for me. I mean, when I was younger I wanted to be a sports person. I wanted to be a cricketer or a rugby player or a footballer. Sadly, never talented enough to do any of those things professionally, but I always knew that I was a people person. Um, you know, because I played a lot of sport, I was naturally competitive. Um, so the options that I was being told I should do, uh, I, I just wasn't sure if that was for me. My parents are both teachers, so that could have worked, but, um, I guess I always wanted to do something different and, um I basically spent the 3 summers before I sort of started my professional career working in the city, um, blagged my way into working for a bank. I was doing admin, uh, initially and sort of, um, getting the coffees, but then eventually did a data analyst role at a bank, an American bank. And it was a really good eye-opener, but I realized quite quickly I was never going to work in a bank. I was never going to work on a grad scheme in, in a financial role. Um, because I didn't love numbers, um, and although getting in a suit every now and again was fun, I just like, I've got to do something that's people-oriented. So, um, it was actually through my rugby club, a friend of mine I played with, he was a recruiter. He said, you know, you're good with people, um, I think you'd quite enjoy this, you know, what I do. So, uh, he told me about the graduate scheme. I just applied on a whim, and before you know it, I was on this big international recruitment businesses grad scheme, and I spent the first 2 and a half years of my career career there. So I guess like most people, you fall into recruitment, um, but very quickly found that just that kind of— one, I guess, the, um, you know, the ability to talk to people on a daily basis, and really the consultative side of sales is what I love. It's building relationships, it's really understanding what people need and then matchmaking, you know, a client to a candidate. I really enjoyed that process. Um, and so although I never planned a big career in recruitment, um, quite quickly I realized I was quite good at it um, it would give me that variety, um, and, um, and yeah, and I kind of got fully stuck in, um, didn't love every aspect of it at all, but, you know, it was a really good grounding. And the company I was at gave great training, and I got to work with some amazing people.

And I think it's fair to say that, uh, recruitment gets a bit of a bad rep, um, from students. And, and I wonder, obviously, being in the world so now, and definitely I love the way that you go about it, um, but What was your outlook as a student? Did you see it? Did you not really know much about it, or did you?

I think I was a bit naive to it, but I did work with some recruitment consultants when I was getting my summer jobs, um, and, and I had a mixed experience, um, and so I guess when I went into that interview process initially, I was a bit skeptical, you know. I'd had experiences of not hearing back from people, being told one thing and the other being a reality, you know. And then I'd had one really good recruiter. I remember him, this guy called Massimo, and he he had been proactive, he had been honest, um, you know, he'd kept me in the loop. And, and so I also had seen like a good experience. So, um, I guess, you know, it was something I wrestled with a lot in the earlier parts of my career because I knew the way that I did recruitment. It was about listening more than selling. It was about really caring and really wanting to do a great job and building those relationships. But unfortunately, a lot of the industry was very transactional. And it was all about making a quick buck, and it was more about what they, you know, the recruiter could get out of the candidate as opposed to what could you do for them. And so I regularly would be at drinks or dinner party with mates, and I'd tell people what I did, and they'd roll their eyes, and they'd be like, oh, you're just another one of them, you know. And I spent a lot of time trying to go, but I'm not like that, that's not how I work. Um, and yeah, That, that, that kind of stereotypical view of a recruiter still exists today, right? But there are also amazing recruiters, um, and there are very different ways to do this job. And I guess the way that we go about it at JBM— and I should probably make it clear, we're not a traditional sort of, uh, recruiter, we're an executive search firm, so we, we do leadership hiring and it's a bit different. But I guess the, the core things are the same, uh, and, and it's all about relationships rather than it being transactional. And so I kind of got to the point, and the reason I ended up starting my own business when I did, when I was 25, was that I was sort of like, stop complaining about this problem, do something about it, change hearts and minds by building something that is genuinely different. And don't just tell people that, just show them, and show them through the results and the reputation. And, and that's why when I set about building JBM I was always like, I'm going to grow this through word of mouth, and that's the best way of proving that it works. And, you know, 12 years later, we're still here. So I think that's, that's kind of worked.

And that entrepreneurial sort of spirit then, was that something that was sort of ingrained within you, or was it born out of a, okay, this is a problem that I think I could do something about?

Um, yeah, I, I mean, I, I do not come from an entrepreneurial family, uh, I, yeah, so I, I really didn't think I had it within me. I think I was lucky enough when I left this big corporate recruitment firm, I was kind of fed up. I was a bit burnt out, if I'm honest, um, and I thought I'd never work in recruitment again. I went to work for this sort of 10-person startup, um, doing business development, and I was completely out of my depth. And if I'm honest, I wasn't very good at selling, uh, professional services, but I loved the spirit, I love the energy, I love the pace, and I love the freedom that I had. So that, I guess, that maybe just was this the sort of spark of the fire within. Um, and I guess as part of that role, I ended up doing recruitment for them and building a mini recruitment function. And I guess I thought, well, I might as well do this myself. I've got nothing to lose. I'm 25, I don't have a mortgage, I have a girlfriend but not married, I don't have kids. Um, you know, I know I've kind of done it in a small setting now and it worked. I've got to go for it. And that was that kind of point where I was like, yes, okay, maybe I am a bit entrepreneurial. But the honest truth is I had no idea if it would work, and I had a lot of people tell me I would fail miserably. But because I'm a competitive person, I use that as kind of motivation and the fire in the belly to get up and go and make it happen. And, um, yeah, it's the best thing I've ever done.

I think one thing that we love to do on this podcast is tell stories that everyone feels heard in a career sense. And I think, uh, you know, we've gauged from this conversation already, you're competitive, you know, maybe entrepreneurship came later, but who, who, that young James, who, who was he? Who, who is he that someone could relate to? Maybe.

Yeah, I guess I was just, uh, to be honest with you, nothing special. But what I did have was like a really clear view on what I was going to do differently. For me, it was about working with more entrepreneurial companies. It was about not being an agency or like a provider. It was about being a partner. So I was saying to a lot of my, my clients— and look, I had to hustle hard to get a foot in the door because most people said, well, you've only got a couple of years experience, how are you going to run these searches for us? How are you going to do it when you've not been working very long? And my view was, well, look, I've, I've been a top performer in a big, you know, reputable brand. I've then gone and worked in a startup. I can relate to your needs. I can relate to the— I, I know what it's like to be in a small business, and I know how essential it is to understand culture and get value alignment right. More though, more than anything else, you know, getting that right in small businesses. So I was often telling the story of, like, I have this great training and then I have this kind of real-world experience of what it takes to work in a startup, and as a result, I'm gonna— and, and I'm, you know, just building my own business, so I'm going to work harder than anyone else. I'm going to deliver, and I'm going to spend a load of time really understanding your business, your values, and I'm going to really focus on that matchmaking process. And so for me, what I was was somebody telling a story, working really, really hard, and then, you know, you have to network like crazy. And for me, a lot of it was, you know, it was going above and beyond for people. I knew a lot of the first people that I'd work for, I would have to do a lot of favors. I did some work for free. I dropped my rates, and I wouldn't necessarily encourage everyone to do this, but I, I wanted case studies and examples. I wanted to prove myself. And then I am politely persistent. So for me, it was like, I don't mind asking a favor. I don't mind pulling— asking sort of that person that I've helped, can you now connect me to somebody? Because that was so important in the early days. My first few clients came from friends like helping me, mentors helping me, and then other clients telling other founders or other CEOs. So for me, I was hungry, ambitious, scared of failure, um, and somebody— but also someone really passionate. You know, I, I love what I do. Um, took me a long time to realize that, but you know, I, I genuinely believe that you can change lives through, through what we do, through, through recruitment, through executive search. You can get somebody a job that brings joy to their life, you know, if it's a company that they are really passionate about or have real purpose, you know, if they— if they— whether it's climate or whether it's tackling the climate crisis, whether it's working in healthcare, if you can find a role that you want to spring out of bed in the morning, you know, that, that's amazing. If we can get somebody a salary increase that gets them the first property on the property ladder, you know, that is life-changing. If we can find them a flexible role that gives them more time back to have with their kids, that's life-changing. So for me, it's a big reframing exercise when I sort of started to build my own business. And what I say to anyone I hire now into JBM is that you need to believe that. You need to genuinely see the impact you can have. And that's extended now, now that we work with these incredible startups, is we are indirectly helping to build companies that are changing the world. And I think when you have— when you sort of reframe it like that, it gives you such purpose, such drive, and such a willingness to really, really want to deliver for your clients because you feel in one way or another you're doing some really real good in the world and you're helping people. And I find that having that purpose behind what we do makes it so much more enjoyable.

And that drive and purpose, I think it's a— I've sort of half-heartedly tried to build my career at university, and I think it's really hard to actually do anything with conviction, or well at least, unless you know why you're doing it, right? And I think you sort of spoke about the summer internships you're doing, finding out what you weren't first, and then you can actually build on what you know you are. Yeah. And I think like it was interesting hearing you say that from your time in recruitment you might have developed a sort of storytelling, sort of schmoozer capability, but then you still wanted to prove it. You wanted to get those case studies. Um, for, for the founders that you work with, um, obviously I was wondering if you've, uh, observed any common themes and in what actually makes them, them great in their storytelling to actually proving their worth sort of ratio.

Yeah, I mean, great founders, there's— I guess there's, there's, there's some— I'd say there's some consistent traits, and then there are there are certain things that set different people apart. You know, some people are visionary, you know, and I think that's— and when you talk about storytelling, you don't have to be like some big extrovert, you know, performer. If you have an incredible vision and if you can articulate that vision and get buy-in from others, then that's often what attracts the best talent, the best investors. You know, if you, if you just are so— if you have just an amazing way of looking at things and you're able to see something that doesn't exist now, but maybe you can see something that will disrupt a category or or create a new one. I mean, that's an amazing trait and one that we see in a lot of our clients. I think resilience is one of the most underrated qualities in a founder. I've been a solo founder for 12 years, not anymore, and I can talk a bit about that in a minute, but you have to, you go through all the emotions as a founder. You have the responsibility of others in terms of paying for other people's rent and mortgages. You have to, depending on the product, you know, you have to, you know, constantly be selling. Whether if you're raising from VCs, you've got to be constantly raising. I mean, there's so many different things, and there are so many knockbacks because nobody believes it as much as you. And, and that's where having real conviction and, and the kind of, yeah, that kind of being battle-hardened to take lots and lots of nos and bounce back from them. And I guess the, the link there is, is, is, is that kind of growth mindset of this is not about failure. This is about learnings and improving and, and yes, taking advice. And I'm a huge advocate for mentorship, but, but just kind of not letting, not letting things put you back, but, but, you know, just keep going. And so I'd say resilience and storytelling and vision are really important. And then I think when it comes to talent, you know, the best founders I know are able to attract and retain exceptional talent. And that can be junior talent, you know, graduates, you know, often bringing talent through an organisation. You know, there's some of the best people I've ever seen have come through that path, that organic path. But it also goes to the same for leaders. And obviously we do executive hiring. It can make or break a business if you get the right COO to execute on a founder's amazing strategy or, you know, a commercial leader to turbocharge the growth of your business. So for me, Being able to, to, to do hiring well and then to have built a culture strong enough to attract great people and retain great talent, uh, is, is also a really important trait.

Now, on the, on the flip side of that, then, if not the founders, then the actual people you're placing in these executive roles, obviously they're further ahead in their career journey than, than graduates, but are there some qualities that, you know, make them stand out that, that students can— maybe it's age agnostic. Like, you can develop those traits that would make you stand out for sure.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, one of the most important things for me is, is kind of having, uh, the kind of EQ and the people's— the relationship building skills. And that again doesn't mean you have to be an extrovert. You can be, you can be introverted but, but still have good people skills and good EQ. And I think for me, first impressions really count, um, uh, and that doesn't mean being the loudest person in the room, but it means that if you're going to an interview it's coming well prepared. And this goes from a graduate right through to exec. I've had— I've been like, I've been shocked at how badly prepared some executives can be for interviews. So when it comes to things like that, making a good impression by doing your research, going above and beyond to really show that you've, you've really thought about why this company, why this role.

You've done—

you've gone deeper than the kind of website check, you know. You've tried the product, you've, you've spoken to people that worked in the business, you've, um, you've, you've research into who their investors are and, you know, why they invested. It's just, just going above and beyond. So I think that's such an important thing.

Yeah, I think it's quite a big problem right now in the graduate market is the glorification of like applying for 50 grad scheme roles and, you know, I didn't get any and I got all rejections, I got that one job. I feel like hearing that at this age, you know, and putting on a pedestal the more you apply, like scattergun being a good approach, it seems very backwards to me, right? It is.

Um, the problem is it's super competitive, right? I'm and I'm not a graduate recruiter, but I can understand, like, I can understand the logic of, okay, if I apply to loads of things, hopefully I'll get one of them. Um, but the reality is that when it's competitive, um, then it, you know, you have to stand out from the crowd. And the only way you're gonna— one of the ways you're gonna stand up from the crowd is being better prepared than the next person, or approaching it in a slightly more creative way. So I think that, that, that is one trait. I think also work ethic. I think Um, the startup world has gone through ups and downs, but, um, when it comes to hustle culture, and that's not great, that's not good. And I've burnt out myself from working myself into the ground. I wouldn't advocate for that at all. I'm so glad we talk about mental health and well-being now much more, and it is taken much more seriously by companies. But if you— especially if you want to become a founder one day, you cannot escape having to work exceptionally hard. Um, and I think there is something to be said for just kind of honing that work ethic, and that's where to be honest with you, I did a job as a cleaner as a teenager. I worked in a bar. I worked as a waiter. I did so many different jobs that taught me about customer service and just grind. And that experience, now when I reflect on it, was actually very important. I didn't like a lot of the jobs. And actually, I was, yeah, it was pretty brutal, some of them, especially cleaning industrial, under industrial washing machines. But that sort of work ethic really helped. And that— the combination of those two things about being really well prepared, working hard, and then building genuine relationships. And this is where I find a lot of people, they're so focused on selling themselves, but they don't always listen, they don't always take the time to ask the right questions, um, and, and they turn it into quite transactional. If I'm interviewing you, whether you're a graduate or a CEO, I want to get to know you, your authentic self. I want to see what makes you different, because I think if you're a graduate, you don't have loads of experience. So then it's about— it's often about the, the other things. It's about the, you know, are you a resilient person? Are you an entrepreneur? Like, depending on the role, like, show me sometimes you've had to think creatively and outside the box. Think— show me some times where you've had to, you know, where you've faced adversity and you've, you've overcome it. Because if I'm going to bring you into this, say, startup, it's going to be ambiguous and stressful, and you're going to need to you know, probably do lots of different things. And so I'm going to be testing for like things in your life experience that, that show me that you could probably handle that. So I think there's— yeah, it's probably— there's tons more, but there's a few, few thoughts.

Yeah, I think it's interesting, sort of, uh, you're crediting those roles that aren't directly linked to where you are now. But I think that's another problem at university is that everybody's trying to tick the same boxes and you know, whether it's the spring weeks or summer internships, and they, they don't think it's worth doing anything a bit more alternative. Um, but it's funny, in this current graduate job market, standing out, it— you know, you might sit there and say, oh, but there's no experience to get, how do I even stand out? But sometimes it's actually just the learnings and the person you make and the way you can actually like contextualize and that what you've done, even if it's not relevant at all. So I mean, do you, do you reflect on, on those sort of more side quest jobs is very formative.

Yeah, absolutely. I think at the end of the day, we are all going to be working for a very long time. Careers are going to be much longer now. People work till they're 70 and beyond, and that means you can have multiple careers. And that means it really doesn't matter if you get to 25, 30, and maybe you haven't got it all figured out and that you haven't necessarily done the thing that you think is going to set you up for life, whatever. Don't let that put you off, especially if you're a graduate and you don't know what you want to be or do. That is fine. I didn't. I, I, I've kind of fallen into this world, and it's still taken me a number of years to get to the point where I'm like, this is actually what I'm best at, this is actually what I enjoy. But I've also brought in, you know, I started a podcast, 40 Minute Mentor, that has sort of given me a new spin on my career, that's kind of given me new learnings and fresh experiences. But you can always, even within careers, you can add different variety and learnings to it to make it, you know, feel fresh. Um, and so my honest feeling is that if you're a graduate or if you are in the earlier parts of your career, variety is good. You do not know— you don't know what you love until you've done it, right? And sometimes you have to do some stuff you really don't enjoy to work out what you do. Just like I realized from working in a corporate that I found it— I just found it— I found it parts of the culture toxic. I found parts of the experience, uh, just so relentless. And I hated the focus on cold calling and KPIs. Now, if I hadn't— now, that experience also taught me resilience and some, some skills that I use today, but it also taught me a lot about what I don't want to be and the business I don't want to build. But I wouldn't be here today were it not for that experience. So I think, again, trying to reframe the jobs that maybe you hated or didn't enjoy about— what can you take from them? What can you learn from them? And how can you take that into the next part of your career? And so I think talking with honesty and authenticity about your experiences, looking for the transferable skills that come from it. Um, and then, and then, yeah, and, and not being too hard on yourself. I think if you put yourself out there, and this is where it comes back to people and relationship building skills, if you, if you are naturally inquisitive, if you are, have a growth mindset, if you work hard and you put yourself out there you'll be amazed at what amazing opportunities come. Because I'm often— I'm always on the hunt for like exceptional talent. And that could be, you know, I hired a guy called Luke who, he was actually a professional rugby player. He had a basically a career-ending injury and was going to university. And we, we got introduced to just chat about careers because he was thinking about going into consulting and, uh, or banking. And, and he ended up coming work— working for me, uh, while just basically I was so impressed with him about his, just like, you know, his attitude. He was so— he was asking great questions. He, he was just really— he just came across so well. And he ended up coming to work with me while he did his degree. Um, so I think there's— and, and now he's gone on to work in startups, and, you know, he's, he's been very successful. But I love, I love, I love that. And, and you'll be amazed at how certain meetings and how you show up in those meetings can have a really incredible impact. Sort of knock-on effect for your career. So I think put yourself out there, meet people, and come with the right energy and the right, um, yeah, I guess intellectual curiosity to make a good impression.

Yeah, and it's not, it's not just about blurting out sort of what you've done or why you deserve to be in a room. I think, you know, things like LinkedIn, for example, allows you to, to build that reputation, um, and, and position you in a place where you can be more naive and actually get to to know people on a more human level. How have you sort of found LinkedIn and the transition? It's a— yeah, obviously you've grown your own personal brand on there, and I'm sure it's helped your business, but how have you also seen, you know, people really harness their career through it?

Um, LinkedIn is a bit of a blessing and a curse because, you know, not everyone loves con— not everyone's a content creator. I know we're kind of forced these days to think that everyone should be, but that's just not the case, and it's not for everyone, and I get that. But there's no doubt in the professional world, particularly the world that I'm in, is it's a, it's a necessary evil. You, you have to use it to headhunt. You have to, you know, if you want to stand out from the crowd, you will have to build a brand and a personal brand on it. So the key for me is, is making it authentic to you. Now, I— this sounds strange to, to think it now because I post on LinkedIn most days, but I really didn't post very regularly until the pandemic. And it was only when we were stuck at home, business was tough, you know, so many of our clients had stopped hiring. And I had my little daughter who was about 2 or 3 at the time just under my desk. And I remembered I took a picture of my new life with like Sienna under the desk and me working. And I started just posting about this new, new normal, um, and it kind of seemed to resonate. And then I started to post a bit more about my my life and a bit more about the, the experience of building a bootstrap business and the pain of it. And it just, it spiraled from there. And I realized that actually this is me telling the real version of the truth, that this is my truth and this is also JBM's story. And it, it's helping people, uh, or it's interesting to people. And, um, so yeah, and then basically I was like, oh, I've got to keep this up now because it's great for business. And, you know, um, so I would say LinkedIn is actually— it's a very powerful tool, uh, if you're authentic to yourself. Um, and I've met amazing people through it. Uh, we've had many clients off the back of our brand, but it has to be authentic. Yeah, because I think as soon as you're trying to be something you're not or trying to just follow the crowd, it's so— you can tell it from a mile off, right? So, um, yeah, I think, I think it's, it's, it's, it's been great for me and JBM, and I guess I'll probably continue to have to use it forever. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I think if done the right way, it's a very powerful tool.

Well, one post that you made recently is the— is a very exciting new announcement, the next chapter after 12 years of building JVM. Talk me through what this next step means and, and what we can now expect from you.

Yeah, well, it's very— it's very exciting timing because literally in the past week we've announced that JVM has been acquired and is actually now part of a newly formed group called Amplified Group. Um, I'm very excited about it. We're basically— I'm basically teaming up with friends, people that I've known for a long time who are all incredible startup operators who share a very similar passion for me when it comes to people, culture, and talent. Uh, so a guy called Andrew Richardson, Andy Meikler, and Anouk Agassol. Um, and what we have created with Amplified is basically a people services group that helps founders— so tech startup founders and leadership teams from inception to IPO with all things, with all things people, culture, talent, and HR. And so it's made up of 3 brands. Foundation Partners, so I guess they're there to help founders tackle some of the biggest challenges that you have when scaling. We all know that founders often don't have the experience, they don't have the finances, or even the capacity to tackle those big problems. So that's where Foundation Partners come in. So whether that's, you know, a seasoned people leader we can provide on a fractional or embedded basis. They're having an amazing impact for some incredible brands on all things on that basis. Then we have JBM, so my business, supporting founders with all things exec hiring, which we know can make or break a business by getting that right or wrong. And then finally, Unleashed, who I've been a huge admirer of for many years, run by Anouk. And they basically provide leadership development and coaching for companies again. So yeah, it's really this sort of— hopefully everyone's going to see it as this incredible supergroup that can help founders with some of the most important things. And we all know that getting, you know, hiring exceptional leaders and, you know, building incredible cultures that can attract exceptional talent and then having the leadership development and the opportunities to grow will help retain those talent. Retain that talent. So yeah, I am buzzing. Um, they're, they're great people first and foremost. They're all, um, proven operators that I know I'm going to learn a lot from. And I've known them for years and they have such a stellar reputation. So, you know, when, when we started having conversations, I just got so excited, had such conviction, because what we've— what we're creating just doesn't exist at the moment. Um, and, um, you know, it's, it's early days, but we've got an amazing team. The feedback from the market has been incredible, and, and I'm super excited to go on this journey, uh, building something that I think— well, I know will have a massive impact for, for founders, for startups, and it's going to be a lot of fun.

And from the, the student side, you allude to the, the importance of people and culture. I think there is actually, you know, there's an importance for students to, to understand what a great culture looks like. I myself probably worked in some cultures that didn't feel right for me, um, and maybe I didn't know the telltale signs of what a bad culture looks like or a bad founder. But for you, what do you think students can look out for that really, like, is an environment that they'd want to work and grow their career in?

Yeah, and look, I, I, I don't want to speak for everyone because I guess different people have different versions of what an exceptional culture is. Um, often what our candidates look for, which, which might be helpful, is one, increasingly a strong purpose. I mentioned it earlier, but, you know, they want to work for a company that is doing good in the world, whatever that might be, and what a purpose that they can get behind, because that really does help. If you're passionate about something, you know, you're going to work really hard to be a part of, of, of, yeah, delivering that to the world. So I think, I think having a purpose and having a purpose that everyone can be aligned to, um, and work to, a goal to work towards, that, that always helps. Um, I think the other things that are really important for me in a great culture is, you know, transparency, you know, a meritocracy where if you do great work, you can progress and develop. And that's where, you know, one of the things that at Amplified we're really focused on is building these high-performing cultures, these places, these sort of places where you will be able to be, you'll be able to develop, where you'll get rewarded, you want to come to work because it's an amazing place. Um, and then in terms of other things, I think it's about, you know, a lot of the best artists I work for, they, they look after you. They look after you in terms of— and this is one thing that I've really, um, thought carefully about with JBM— is that I want to create an environment where we incentivize well, where we give lots of opportunity for development. So that's through giving lots of exposure, lots of accountability, lots of ownership, chances to really, um, you know, thrive and develop and progress. So yeah, um, that's That's another really important one. And then it's about having a place that people want to come. So, you know, just nice people that are all aligned by a vision. And I think if you're doing those things, then you're likely to create a place that great talent wants to come to and people want to stay at. And I think the final one is just about, you know, having really exceptional leaders that live the values that they you know, talk about. Um, and that's where, you know, authenticity, vulnerability in leadership, and empathy is really important.

My final question to you, which I ask every single one of my guests, is when you first started off, you know, graduating from Leeds, studying history, you would have had a certain idea of what a successful career might go on to look like. Fast forward with everything you've learned and achieved with JVM, what is your definition of success and how has it changed?

Oh, what a good question. What is my definition of success and how it's changed? Um, I guess when I was younger, uh, yeah, when I, when I was younger, I guess success would have, would have meant, um, to have, you know, progressed in a career to a point where, you know, I could make my parents proud and I'd made enough money that I could probably buy my own place. I didn't really think about it, if I'm honest. I think I just, I just I just thought, you know, I often, you know, like a lot of kids, you know, you want to do your parents proud. I think now I look back on it and when I think about success now, I guess there's still an aspect of that. You know, I do a lot of what I do for my family. I have an 8-year-old daughter, you know, my wife who I've known since I was 11, and I definitely want to do something that, that matters and that has an impact. And that's what we're talking about, purpose. For me, I believe we're doing some good in the world. So that, that is something that is, is important to me. If we are changing people's lives through what the work we do, then I feel I'm having an impact, and that's something I'm very proud of, and that'll be successful. I think the other thing is that, that we're not just an exec search firm. Like, we don't just place a few select number of leaders into companies. We also have a podcast called 40 Minute Mentor, which is all about making mentorship accessible at scale by sharing inspiring stories and, and telling the real truth behind scaling businesses. So, you know, not just the, the unicorns and the good stuff, but also the gnarly challenges overcome and the mistakes made. And for me, that is the thing that I feel is kind of maybe the definition of, of real success, is that we are doing something that is helping a lot of people and hopefully inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs. And probably putting off the people that should put off as well from the reality of it. Um, but that for me is really what success looks like, is like a— hopefully there's evergreen content there that will have an ongoing impact and, and hopefully can, uh, yeah, help aspiring entrepreneurs and operators to, yeah, to be inspired and to, to take action. And that goes from graduates right through to, to executives. So yeah, success today, you know, probably is, is, you know, making my family proud, you know, uh, having an impact in the world. Um, and then finally is enjoying the work. Life is too short. So for me, if I, you know, I don't get the Sunday night blues anymore like I used to in my earlier part of my career, you know. I love the variety, what I do, and I know I'm the master of my destiny. I can— I have the, the chance to work on a variety of interesting different things, and the choice and the freedom to— and the privilege privilege to, to shake that up if needs be, uh, and to do different things and to innovate in my role. So for me, that's success, because I guess we're at a point now where I have the freedom to do that, and I feel very blessed to do that. And, you know, uh, but, but I also feel like there's so much more, especially with Amplified. There's so much more we can do until I can feel like I'm a real success, because we want to build an incredible business, and we have big ambitions, um, and want to help build some greatest companies that have, uh, tech companies that have existed. So watch this space, let's see if we hit it. I'm sure you will.

Uh, James, thanks so much for coming on, it's been a pleasure.

Thanks, Peter, I really appreciate you having me.