James Roycroft-Davis, Head of Early Stage @ Founders Capital

Welcome back to The Graduate Guide. Today we're joined by James, James Walker, podcast mate.

Thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure to have you on. And you are, uh, the head of early stage at Founders Capital, correct? What does that mean? What does that consist of?

Um, Founders Capital is Europe's largest investor community. Uh, we invest into companies from pre-seed up to like IPO. Um, what does my job look like? I look at deals, everything below pre-series A. So companies that either— some are just looking at an idea, but they've got like excellent founders behind them, up to raising a 3, 4, 5, 7 million $1 million round, and we will take the deals. We invest in some of them ourselves, but we take them to our investor community who write cheque sizes from £250,000 up to— we've done a £2 million round so far. We started 18 months ago. We've deployed £22 million in 18 months, which is more than most pre-seed funds, and that is all from a community of founders and operators behind us who are some of the most prolific in Europe and now globally, um, as we've moved over to the US and Dubai and China.

So that's what you do now, but if we go back to your time at university, uh, studying at Nottingham Trent University, what did you think your career might pan out to be back then, or what were you thinking in your career at university?

I studied politics at Trent. Um, and I say so— I actually wish I didn't go to uni. Yeah, because I found a bit pointless. I came out with a degree that I wasn't actually that interested in. Um, and I wasn't going to be a politician. I didn't really have that much interest in going into Parliament. Um, I looked at various jobs in comms, um, and And then I was kind of like, well, I don't really know what I want to do. And so I just remember feeling a bit lost. Recruitment at that point was like the career path that every single grad went in if they had no idea what the fuck they wanted to do. And I took that path, and, um, I got offered a really cool job at the time in an exact— exact search firm. Building a technology desk, which basically means, like, long story short, I spent 18 months populating a database, ringing up McKinsey consultants going, I've got a really cool job for you at this tech company, lying to them because I didn't have a job on, going, can I have your CV? Let's build a relationship. You're on like a couple of million dollars, uh, I think I can place you. Then ringing up this tech company going, uh, 'Hey, I've got this partner at McKinsey who, uh, who is really interested in working with you. Like, would you be interested in, in taking on that, on, on that, on that role?' And that's how I would marry together a business. Um, I did this for 18 months. It was at that moment where I knew, I knew I could like suffer quite a lot of pain.

Yeah.

And that I might be quite a good entrepreneur. Um, but I, I was just constantly lost. Like, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I knew I didn't actually want to do that, um, forever. And I think this is one of those big conundrums that grads have, right, is this feeling of, of not quite understanding the working world. I, I mean, I certainly didn't. And also being a bit ignorant. You come out of uni and you're like, great, I've graduated, what do I do next? This is amazing. Like, and then you hit the real world and you're like, shit, this is a lot harder than I thought was going to be and also a lot more mundane. Um, so yeah, I had a bit— I had a bit of an indifferent experience. And I think that if I had my time again, I wouldn't have like gone and got myself into £50,000 worth of debt. It's actually more than that because the interest payments. Uh, and I would have either gone into work or I'd have gone and got an apprenticeship. Because I think the reality is now that people don't really give that much of a shit about where you went to uni. There are some vocations that is really important, but certainly for me, like, if I'm hiring somebody, I don't really care where they went to uni unless they went to like Oxford, Cambridge, like UCL. I'll be like, okay, clearly intelligent, highly intelligent. But it's all about attitude now. And like, and do they exhibit like tendencies which I resonate with and I like, and I also know that other successful people have.

Um, yeah, I think probably what goes wrong is that no institution or government body takes accountability for like an individual knowing what they want to do, right? That doesn't— there's no, uh, monetary gain in a company helping that. That's more of a it's too philanthropic for what our businesses, universities, to care about.

Yeah.

Um, and they've been getting away with it for so long, generally speaking. And now that there's an economic downturn and, you know, for example, international students aren't just coming to the UK as a given because there isn't employability at the back of it, we're at a time where everybody's having to reassess and look at careers and, and how it should be done on an institutional level, on a personal level. Like, how do people actually try and find out earlier on what they want to do? For you, what was like the penny drop moment? You alluded to there that you felt in that job you were some more entrepreneurial, but when did it feel like you could actually build a career in entrepreneurship?

Uh, well So I've had two generations of entrepreneurs in my family, my mum, my grandfather, so I understood and knew that world quite, quite well. I was lucky to go to a school where I was in amongst like people's parents who were successful entrepreneurs, so I understood a bit about the space. I actually got made redundant from a startup and, um, that I was working at, and I was like, fuck you, I'm gonna start my own company. I had no idea what I was doing. Um, and then I literally sat in my front room for like 18 months, uh, and was like, this is really hard. But the, the, like, the notion of creating something and sitting there, sometimes in your head, but sitting there— I'm sure you will resonate with this as well— like sitting there and dreaming about what you could do to get to a place which could eventually make you money, um, or have an impact, ideally both. That is what got me out of bed every single day. And so now it's the process of creating new things which makes me like so excited, uh, all the time. And I think that is one of the just the hotbeds of entrepreneurship. It's people who have either creativity and/or they have this curiosity to, um, do something which they actually believe in. Um, and I think anybody can be an entrepreneur. I really, really believe that. I think it's just whether you have the, um Partly the self-belief, uh, and secondly, you allow yourself to explore. I appreciate it's really difficult though sometimes if financially you've not got the backing behind you, um, situations are difficult. Like, you might be out working a job, but you've got this idea and you're wondering when to pursue it. Do you work on it before you go to work, after work? It's really exhausting. Weekends. I just— I'm actually really, really passionate about people, um, sitting down with a pen and paper and figuring out how they can make something work. And I, I really think that is like one of the stepping stones into entrepreneurship and being a founder. You've had lots of founders on your podcast now. Like, there is a common denominator here, which is people have an idea or they get a hunch about things and they just have the conviction to go and do it. And it's the doers that win, um, and the people who don't do, uh, don't rise above that bottom rung. Um, and, um, and I think that is one of the most important things about entrepreneurship.

Yeah, I think at university that sort of doer nature that is essential to success is kind of chipped away from you, um, because you go through these accelerators that, you know, it's constantly ideating and iterating and validating and, and very little actually doing, failing, testing, all that kind of thing. And, um, and obviously you work with, you know, a lot of early-stage startups now. Um, what do you think are the traits of the ones that have taken an idea that on the face of it is, you know, it's risky, there's no guarantee it'll work, but their sense of belief or, or what they've done to try and like sure-proof its success? Like, what do you think that these, these like makes these founders stand out at this early stage?

I— they're just obsessed.

Yeah.

And they're obsessed and they've just got really dogged work ethic. Some of them just aren't actually like the smartest people in the room. They're not, but they just want it enough. Um, and when we talk about drive and what's kind of like start our waffle, like, you do meet people who are just obsessed and they want to do this so badly, more than everybody else, and that's what sets them apart. It's, it's that— I think, I think it's, it's, it sounds simple, but it is. Like, if you want it that much, um, like, I've wanted it that much and 2 businesses now, and that meant that I became utterly obsessed. And that's what it— that's what— that's what it needs. Um, in my role as founders capital, like, I'm obsessed with— and I want to build a large enough community that we can have an impact.

How do you know when you're obsessed though? I think that's the thing, right, is that like—

I think you don't, isn't it? You don't know when you're obsessed, but you just— you in it all the time.

Yeah, but I know you mean like if somebody's passionate about something, you can't, you can't bullshit that. Like, you can't, um, you can't try and fake enthusiasm for something existing unless you're like the ultimate schmoozer.

Um, you live and breathe it, right? Like, it— you wake up in the morning. This is how I know I'm obsessed with something. I am waking up in the middle of night thinking about it. I wake up in the morning and I'm thinking about it. I go to bed writing on my phone about it. And often I'm talking to my wife and really pissing her off because I'm speaking all the time about it. Yeah. And that is when she's like, you're obsessed. Um, and that's a good thing. I think if you're gonna dedicate— like, some, some, some people are dedicating half their life to an obsession.

Yeah.

And it, sometimes it will take 3, 7, 10, 15, 20 years. That's a big commitment. Like, entrepreneurship is a commitment because it can ruin relationships, it can ruin marriages, it can ruin your, like, health, um, can ruin your mental health, physical health. It has mine twice, uh, but I keep coming back for more, um, because I like creating and the kick of starting things and watching them build and then go, well, actually, like, we started there, we're up there now, what do we need to do to get up there? And how many people are we going to impact? That's incredible.

You do get these anomalies where people have that obsession from a very young age and they've managed to build a career out of it, you know, the, the rock stars or the footballers or whatever. But for most people, and, you know, like ourselves going to university, it was very hard to, to find that obsession in and amongst, like, you know, everybody just ticking boxes, right? Um, So obviously I believe that obsessions and being passionate about something is age agnostic. It's not something that you have to like graduate and then find out. You can do things to, to work it out no matter what age you're at. But what did you find actually, you know, when it came to finding that passion obsession? What were the things you were doing at that time?

Funnily enough, it was actually stop thinking about what was I passionate about, what was my— I got really hung up about like what was the meaning to my life and it caused me a whole, like, a whole load of problems. Um, I got really depressed because I was like, well, I don't know what I'm meant to be doing with my life, and therefore, um, I'm shit, I'm not good enough, um, I'm never gonna find a job that I really am passionate about. I see all these people that I know who are like, I just live and breathe my job and I love my job so much. I'm like, well, I didn't love my job, um, so, uh, so when am I gonna find a job that I really love? And it caused me a load of problems, and it wasn't until I actually just let go of the whole like, what's my purpose in life? Um, what's the meaning to my life? I mean, there is no meaning, I don't think. And translating that into like, well, what is— what does career mean? Um, traditional careers are like, well, you stay at IBM for 40 years and, uh, your ceiling cap on your earnings is like 250 grand. And to me, that is just dog shit. They're so boring. A career for me is, is— I don't even think I have a career. I just do a lot of stuff. I take some risks. Um, lots fail, like way more fail. Um, and that is something that I've had to accept. Um, and that's my kind of career. It's just figuring a load of stuff out and having the conviction to do that. Um, but yeah, I just think— I think I'd love grads, if they were like listening to this or watching this, to just roll with the punches a bit more. You don't have to have your, your career figured out from the moment you leave uni. In fact, you don't even have to have it figured out for 10 years after uni. I think lean into the things that you want to lean into. That's what I have done. I have my second business, Luna. I rescued a dog in the pandemic, this fat 8-year-old Alaskan Malamute, right? And he was so badly trained that I needed to find— I wanted to find a dog trainer. Obviously, I'm not a dog trainer. I've never ever searched for dog trainers in my life, realised how awful the process was to find a good dog trainer specific to my dog's needs. Leant into that more. So I started ringing up dog trainers going, can I just speak to you about like what this world is? Because this is really fucked up. And I started a business from it. And if I hadn't had the space or given myself the space to just lean into it and find out a bit more why this whole world was like completely upside down, I would never have started that business. Off the back of that, I raised almost half a million quid in like from investors. And it failed in the end, um, for various reasons. But, um, you have to learn, lean into that to actually go and do it. And I did it. That's, that's one of my biggest lessons in my, like, in my own life, especially like with Baseline and bipolar disorder. I was diagnosed last year, um, after like a 7-year diagnosis journey, um many, many ups and downs, um, like 2 failed suicide attempts. And it was only until we went through the diagnosis journey that I realized when I was diagnosed that the pathway to a diagnosis and then after that is so fragmented, and it's, it's really fucked up. Um, there's no support whatsoever for me or my family And so again, I start leaning into it, calling up psychiatrists going, why is it the way that— why is this the way it is? And started Baseline off the back of that because there is a genuine need to, with this illness, to give patients more data and give them better connectivity to their support networks. And so Baseline was born. Um, lean into things. That just flick, flick that little bit of curiosity, um, that's, that's, that's powerful.

I think when you're building a business, you, you kind of have to be adequately pissed off by the solution that you want to exist, not existing, or like incredibly passionate about what you're doing that like you can roll the punches. And I think in this day and age, I'm sure you have a lot of companies coming to you that they see like these nice-to-have businesses and, you know, these one-off success stories with an AI where they can just hire some coders, put things, put some things together, get rich quick. But the reality is of pretty much every great company is that they have that why locked down on a deeper level, right?

To, to be an entrepreneur, you have to go through a lot of pain. It is not easy. People see big funding rounds and they see the glitz and glamour on LinkedIn or Twitter, etc. And the reality is it's just not like that at all. It— to build a big funding round, you need to be kissing a lot of frogs, right? You need to be— have ideally networked in, like, if you're raising from VC where you're raising a couple of million dollars up to 10, to Series A, having relationships with founders who are— have been been invested in by venture or, you know, VCs is highly preferable. That takes time. Um, and so these, these companies that you think are built quickly because they are built quickly, they are built off the back of an entrepreneur's like deep passion and equally like the ability to just suck up pain. Um, and, um, pain in a good way, but pain in a bad way as well. Um, but it's, it's really, it's so hard. And that's why I have so much respect for founders, because they're taking on almost all the risk, um, employing people, uh, doing like very difficult roles, doing a lot of different roles. Like, most founders are pretty generalist, um, and unless you're a CTO, for example, and you're wearing so many hats. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's really hard to get there, but it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Well, that's what I was going to ask next, is if that's the reality, then what's the, the, the reason people do it, right? Because I remember, you know, always feeling entrepreneurial, but I almost felt like entrepreneurship was gatekept for me, or like, you know, fear-mongered out of me while I was at university, I was like, okay, maybe that's not for me right now. Maybe I won't give that a go because it seems incredibly difficult. I don't know if I have the threshold for that level of pain in my life right now. Um, but there's a reason why people choose it as a lifestyle. Should you be like entrepreneurially minded? And, and what is that? How can a student listen to this identify themselves as that?

Well, first and foremost, most entrepreneurs are actually unemployable. Um, so, so, um, I think that's a big factor. If you're not very unemployable, chances are you're probably going to be quite a good entrepreneur. That's why you rarely see entrepreneurs integrated into a bigger company upon post-acquisition, because they look at things and go, fuck that, I'm off. I think that you have to, you have to want to work for yourself because at the end of the month, nobody's going to pay you other than yourself, and you have to be comfortable with that level of insecurity. And I, I think from my perspective, I like doing what I want to do. I like working with people, but I particularly like being managed by people, um, and I think that's one of the biggest things for, for grads is do you want to work for yourself and do you want to kind of be in control of, to a point, your own destiny? Are you then comfortable with the insecurity that that might bring? Because unless you're generating revenue from like month 1 or 2, um, and enough revenue to sustain like London living or wherever you are in the country, um it's going to be a struggle. Like, you're going to be living off rice and beans, right? Um, so, um, my first company, I lived off £400 a month for 2 years, and it was excruciating. Um, but I did it because I really wanted it. Do you have— do you want that? Um, is, is one of the big things. And if the answer is yes, then you're a lunatic, but welcome to the club.

Yeah, it's a—

there is a level of lunacy, right, to this whole process, like to dream that big and to go, I'm going to take this massive risk, and people saying, what are you doing? Like, you don't— the reality is you don't go out for beers with your mates that often. They're all in like nice jobs and finish at 5 on Friday, and the reality is you're stressing out, trying to work out when you're going to make payroll, and what's the next project that you need to do for like working 4 hours on a Saturday? Uh, and am I going to see my parents on Sunday because I really need to like rebuild my pitch deck? Um, because if I haven't got like 10 investor conversations next week, then none of the 3 people that work for me are going to be paid because we're not quite hitting the revenue marks yet. That is the vast majority of the founder journey. Sorry, I'm just— am I putting people off?

No, I— but this, this—

I'm just trying to make like— this is the reality.

Okay, you touched on something interesting there, which is the idea that there needs to be some level of lunacy. And I think the reason this podcast exists and the reason we platform so many stories from so many different industries and different types of roles and different stages of their career is that everybody feels heard in a career sense. Yeah. For which I don't think you can underestimate the significance of. Um, and given that, there will be somebody listening to this— not everyone, some people would have been put off by this and maybe they've stopped listening— but for the ones that have, are digging deeper into this and have bought more into it, who is, who is James? Like, who can they, they see the successful point you're at now and the hardship you've been through and everything, but who is like your, your natural self that somebody can relate to?

That's a really good question. Um, the natural James is a constant self-doubter. Uh, am I good enough to do this? Am I good enough to be here in amongst all these brilliant founders? Uh, and the natural James uses that to drive himself every single day to be better. Um, I think the natural James is like very raw and vulnerable. Um, like having gone through like misdiagnosed depression, um, what's happened with me over the last 7 years to bipolar disorder, starting a business in it, like I like to tell my story and I am often putting myself on a chopping block, my head on a chopping block publicly. By telling that mental health story, because I know a lot of people are going, oh, fuck you again. Like, but that's really important to me. I, I have a shit ton of self-drive and determination. I think a lot more than other people. I feel like I have things to prove, and rightly or wrongly, I'm in therapy because of it. But that, that makes me want to do this all the time, even though it's been painful. And there's been like— when you fail and you lose other people's money, like, that's just not— it's not a nice feeling. It's not to go, okay, well, this didn't work out, and to look at yourself in the mirror, to ring up your investors and go, I've lost your money. That's something that never leaves you. And yet people are like, well, why have you done it again? Like, well, because there's something just innate in me that wants to do this and wants to build something and wants to, like, help people and change people's lives. And on one hand, right now with my role, like, like at Founders Capital, I sort of get to do that. It's a little bit different. It's, it's less about like having impact on, on people's lives. It's more about, um, it's more about how can we build a better like startup ecosystem through access to capital. Um, I think we're now shifting, um, emphasis onto how do we build a much larger, like, startup founder community, which is more targeted, more data-driven, um, and that actually will impact founders' lives. I started the dads community, um, because I became a father, uh, in February. I started this dads community in mid-August, 400+ members. Dads Building Companies, it's called. Um, that— the impact that's had on, like, tens if not hundreds of dads now is mega. And so that was when this whole like switch flicked. I was like, okay, if I can build really rapidly like a micro community, like why can't that be replicated across like the startup ecosystem? And so yeah, with my role there, I get to have that impact. I think with my role at Baseline, that's a real passion project for me. Like, I want to solve my problems, I want to solve my wife's problems in that space around bipolar disorder. Um, and so That is the drive I get, um, and that, that is just— that's me. I think if you ask my wife, she'd say that same.

And I think the truth is, is that we do need more people to accept that that's them in a career sense. More people that are like sufficiently pissed off to produce innovation. I feel like we are stagnating. Not obviously— you could look at tech, but there's nothing impressive about utilizing knowledge and AI in a business right now because everybody can do it. That's like learning how to write an essay, it's not significant. But I think to really like manufacture yourself as a person that has upskilled themselves enough as a person to really solve a problem that a load of people are dealing with, that's where we're trying to get the startup ecosystem to, I think. And, and I wonder what you think are the main pitfalls happening right now in the whole, like, education, you know, early careers journey that are eradicating people from that?

Well, like, just to touch back on, like, what entrepreneurship is as well, because I think entrepreneurship boils down to— and this is what clicked for me— you create something which is valuable enough that people find it really useful and will pay for it. And that is literally the formula for most entrepreneurs. Yeah. Um, and anybody can do that. Um, Literally, I don't think you and I are that special. Um, I've heard good things about you, Pete, but like, like, we create something of value that people want to use and they pay for it. Like, that's entrepreneurship. I, I think the pitfalls are start before university, the start of school. Um, like, I would love entrepreneurship to be a topic at school because now I see some like 17-year-olds, I see some like 13-year-olds on LinkedIn who are building businesses from the toilets of their school, posting about it on LinkedIn, going, I'm building a one-man agency. And I'm like, fuck yeah, like, this is, this is what I want to see. Whether you're actually doing that or not, I don't know, but I don't care. That's amazing. So I think we need to go a step back from university and go, how do we empower people at school? Because the pitfalls of that is you pick a degree that you, you're not sure you actually want to do, you get into debt, um, you actually don't understand the outside world and how things work, and then you're not quite sure whether you can make an informed decision about like how you want to progress. Because if you built that reasoning and just a vague level of understanding of what like building a business is like at school, why couldn't you go to uni and start building a business there where you've got this incredible ecosystem of students who I'm sure are hungry for some level of value that you create. Um, and then it spirals from there. Um, and then I think another pitfall is that, um, because we don't offer this ability to like allow students to critically think, um, everything's like on TikTok and, uh, like we look at other people's opinions on X or LinkedIn, like I certainly do. And then my attention span is that of a gnat, and then I don't actually have time to really sit down and write and think. We're not breeding students who can, um, who can look at problems and figure out a variety of different ways to solve them and then either test them or figure out how to test them and then go out and do. And I think that would be amazing if we could have like an ecosystem where you've got a community of people who are building stuff. Have you come across BuildSpace in the US?

I have, yeah.

Yeah, that was before they shut that down. Like, that was one of the most inspiring things I've ever seen on the internet, and I would love that to be built in the UK. Um, I've got a ton of ideas how that could be done, and that is the type of space that I think students should be given.

Yeah, and I, and I, because I resonate with what you're saying, and I, I'd like to think that other people resonate with that as well. But I, you know, I think there's a lot of societal things that have to be sorted out where we actually think it's cool and we don't look down on, on youth for trying to build stuff. Like, I just, I feel like a lot of the people with money right now and capital to give. They don't have that attitude. They want to see experience. They want to know where their money's going. And I think that's where, you know, this whole thing about labeling Gen Z as all the same kind of person and speaking a certain language— like, I don't know why that's happened. I think it's really damaging to our society, actually, that we're putting these people on pedestals, slash, we're like grouping up a group, like, some young people, um, when it should really just be these people are a certain age, um, and this individual has this desire to do their career this way or build a company this way. And I think what you're advocating for there as a community is allowing for more Maverickian people from a younger age, right?

Totally. I actually slightly disagree with you. I, I think that there has never been a better time to be a Gen Zer.

But because it's not about—

because like now what I wish I was good at was building a TikTok page that gives me like ultimate distribution for my ideas. Like I've got a good level of distribution when it comes to my LinkedIn page. Now you're building yours as well, like that's a great thing to be able to do. Um, a lot of building businesses is all about distribution and go-to-market, as you know. And what Gen Z are able to do now is build distribution, and that is one of the most powerful things.

I agree. I, I, listen, I'm, I'm a beneficiary of building your personal brand, all these kind of things, but I've had to learn that myself and get my, myself, my foot in the door that made building this brand seem possible and allow me to reap these benefits. But this is— this awareness is not trickling down. To our age group. Like, I, I don't think it is. I think a lot of people, you know, this lost and confusion, they're not seeing the corporate and traditional grad jobs have been taken away from them, and they're not being educated on how they can build this distribution pipeline and build these digital nomad dream careers. Like, the reality is it's just not happening, uh, because nobody takes accountability for it.

Yeah, but the messaging should be something like this, or a community which is able to go, right, we're just going to break down what this actually means into some really simple steps and go— if you're a content creator and you like working on TikTok, for example, or building memes on Instagram, that actually has a place in the world of entrepreneurship, and a massive one. Like, distribution is everything now. And so I think it's very, very difficult it was very easy to go, right, we need to change this, this, and this. But the reality is that the world is the way it is. And I think it's— the clever companies give a slightly different impression of the world and have a message, and they reach tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people, with that message. And they kind of go, well, fuck the system. And because their message is fuck the system, that actually gives him a whole nother level of distribution for the message too. And I think that that would be my— the way I do this is don't fight the system. Yeah, just say fuck it because it's just— it's not— it's not going to change. Um, and that sounds really pessimistic, but it— like, to change a system, like, good luck. Like, but to just build around it, like, That's much more simple. It's true.

And maybe like, you know, I'm saying this having not experienced different lifetimes and generations, and this has always been—

How old are you? 24?

23.

23, right. I'm 30. 7 years, nothing. Like, it, it comes down to though, why are we the way we are? Is that we're able to take risks, but we've been given the space to do that. I don't think there is a space, or you're building a space right now, hopefully. Um, and Founders Capital, building companies can be part of that, great. But we need to have a space where there's a slightly different message, that we give a space to builders, students who— and we go, look, actually, you want to build a faceless YouTube account, uh, which, which makes you like $100K a month in, in revenue like, and here's how to do it. That has a place in this world. That has a place in entrepreneurship because that's distribution. Like, you want to build a TikTok account where someone sits on the toilet and farts? That is distribution. Like, it is.

Yeah.

And this is what I, I love about, like, entrepreneurship is there is businesses everywhere. Um, we've just got to build the right message around it and say, look, if you build a TikTok account which does this, this, and this, and you're reaching couple of million people a month. Um, here is the business that can come from that. Bring in AI to this conversation to automate a whole part of your business, and that is entrepreneurship. That is what I think we should— we should try and replicate at BuildSpace.

Yeah, and I think, um, if I was a student listening to this, I would think to myself, okay, say I do accept that the careers market, the world is never gonna like— or the system is not gonna change to accommodate me, and I do need to fuck it off and play it my own way. I think the thing that then holds people back is like parental ideas of what success looks like, and like almost like, you know, needing to educate other people or just battle through that. And maybe there's no other way of doing it, right?

I don't think there is. I think if your parents aren't— are just— are disapproving of it Um, I would, I would urge you to do it anyway, um, because, uh, again, if you're not able to change it, just work around it. And it's giving young people the, uh, confidence to actually do it their own way and, um, to feel guilt-free about that, um, which is really empowering. And if you can do that, then we're gonna breed a whole another like army of entrepreneurs, as we're seeing now. Like, I'm— I love— I spend way too much time on X and follow all the kind of Indie Hacker communities and solopreneur communities because I'm just fascinated by what people are building and the way people just navigate like building things and taking joy in making money that way. And they figure things out is exceptional. If your parents don't like it, well, cool, but this is what I want to do. And do it. Don't, don't, don't hold yourself back. Um, that's, that's so important.

And I feel like we could go on this conversation for ages, but, um, I do want to begin to wrap it up as I'm conscious of your time. And with that comes my final question to you. Which is when you first start off your career, you know, coming out of Nottingham Trent, you would have had a certain idea of what success might go on to look like. And then fast forward with everything you've learned and achieved along the way, what is your definition of success and how has it changed?

Oh, such a good— my definition of success, which has caused me again a lot of like trouble and pain, was like money. Um, how much money am I making? I think that changed when I had my son, and now my definition of success is, can I provide but also be there for him? And you and I can sit here all day talking about like careers and entrepreneurship, but at the end of the day, like, when you've got a little human sat there going, I actually don't give a fuck about like what you do, it's a massive leveler. That for me is success. Like, I've been able to like procreate and add to the gene pool with hopefully relatively good genes. And, um, success to me now is making sure that I provide the best life to him. And actually nothing else other like matters than that. And I never used to think like that. I used to think, right, I want to be a millionaire, like a multi-multi-millionaire. I want financial freedom. I still do want financial freedom because that's really important to me, because I think that providing myself and my family with a level of financial freedom means that, um, we can mix in the circles we want to mix in, we can make the right decisions based on us, but there's nothing more important than making sure that my son is okay and happy. Um, that's my definition of success.

Love it. James, thanks so much for coming on.

Top man, thanks.