Katie Arnold, Founder @ P3PRMNT

Welcome back to another episode of The Graduate Guide. Today we're joined by Casey. Casey, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much for having me.

Yeah, so it's a pleasure to have you on and also find out this is your first podcast.

Yeah, I know, pressure's on.

Yeah, not at all, honestly. It's very conversational and we're just going to do a deep dive into your career journey. And, and I think, you know, you did start your business Peppermint, um, at 18, sort of informally, but I want to go even before that. Yeah, when you were younger, what were you thinking your career might pan out to be?

I think I went through a lot of different stages as a child. Like, I wanted to be a pilot at one point, I wanted to be a marine biologist, but I think there was always the inclination of having a business Like I remember when I was about 9, it was firework night and I bought a pack of like those £1 glow sticks and I was trying to sell them for 50p each to everyone. And my mum was like caught me doing it. So I think I always had that kind of entrepreneurial mindset in the back of my mind and my parents had their own company when I was growing up. So I always kind of saw the hustle and like sometimes it would go really well and sometimes it wouldn't be. And I think I just kind of got addicted to that and like, that was what I wanted to do. So I didn't really know what I was going to do in terms of what business I wanted to have, but there was always the mindset like, that's where I want to go.

And, you know, it's not the common thing for someone to do at that age. Was there any element of, uh, social stigma that maybe stopped you doing it as early as you might have wanted to? And when you actually did start at 18, what did that feel like? What did it look like at the time?

Yeah, I think it was always different. Like, I mean, I, I started that company that I have now at 18, but I had little mini companies before, so I think my first one was when I was 14. I had a little Depop shop and I was buying and reselling clothes and I was upcycling, so I think I kind of got the idea that I could make my own money for myself, but it was different to what everyone else was doing. There wasn't many people that would've started work that early or anyone in my schooling background that had jobs, so I think I was very much different on that, but I just really enjoyed it and I found it as more of a hobby rather than something that we're inclined, like, have to do. Sure. So yeah, that's kind of like how it started, I think.

And how did academia treat you? Did you feel like the UK education system was for you or no?

No. I mean, I did all right for my, like, GCSEs and things like that, but I really struggled with my mental health going through college, and I just didn't find that studying was right for me. I soon found out that I had ADHD, So, I just found the whole idea of the routine, the set schedule of having to be productive in certain times just didn't work with my brain and I found it really difficult and I just didn't really want to go to university but I also felt pressured to 'cause we are told from a young age that you need to go to university, you need to get a 9 to 5 to be successful and that was always the path that I was shown but I never really thought, like there was alternative ways. So when I found there was an alternative way, I was like, I'm gonna go for this.

Yeah, and you did actually go to university though. I did, um, to study business. Um, you know, talk me through that, that decision. Why did it feel like something you should do at the time? And I know since you've dropped out, but you know, how did you find it though? What was your experience with it?

So it was COVID, I just left college and I didn't have any intentions to go to university. I was gonna go to the US and be an au pair for a year and do some traveling and then kind of decide what I wanted to do after that. But because COVID, like all my plans just kind of went up in the air. So I didn't really know what to do and I'm not a person just to sit around and do nothing, like I have to have something to do. So I was like, you know what, I'll just sign up for university, at least it gives me something to do for this year whilst everyone's at home. So I started business management 'cause I knew that's what I wanted to do eventually. Um, and it kind of just started from there, but I didn't enjoy it. I just really— I find it really difficult to write lectures— not lectures, um, what they're called— essays. And just the whole marking grading scheme just never really worked for me.

Yeah. And what is it about business? Because obviously, like, that's manic depressive in itself, but I guess it's a little bit more on you and a little bit less subjective. Um, Is that sort of— would you describe the way you think as, uh, a little bit more, um, okay, I'm gonna base my, my success today on, you know, how much progress I made with the branding or the new people I met, rather than like, okay, the grade I got, for example?

Yeah, I think so. I think it's kind of like very similar. Like, you have your set goals within business and you have your set goals with the university, but For me, it's always like the daily win. So, either I've completed something new or like, "Oh, I've met this per— incredible person that they're gonna help me with XYZ." And I think business, I think a lot of people just think, "Oh, it's how much money you can make," or, you know, the profits and everything. It's so beyond that. Like, it's from the connections that you make, what you can bring back to the people that get really involved within your company. And I think just throughout every single stage of just completely startup, to later on. Like, everything that I've added in has been so valuable to me, and I just generally love it so much. I get so excited when I've, like, met someone new or talked to someone that's doing something really cool. So I think that's why I really like business.

And when I was at UCL, I think, you know, I studied history for context, and, um, that obviously has no direct path out of it. Um, I, I also felt like I was more entrepreneurially inclined. I didn't know what that could be. And I joined these accelerators, and I think a lot of people, you know, they constantly talk about ideating and iterating and validating, and it's like almost to the extent that you just never go ahead and do anything and take the learnings from it. Um, and obviously you, you started young and you had— you— it was sort of been ever-present for the last 4 years. Uh, what would you say to somebody that's deliberating whether they should just go ahead and start something? What are the benefits of doing so?

Yeah, I honestly, when I started my company, I didn't know anything. Did not know how to run a business. I didn't really know, like, I had the basics of customer service and kind of the idea that, you know, you make a product, you sell it, and you keep going. But I would just say go for it because that's what I did. I was, like, very determined. I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna go. I'm just gonna have, go for it, hit the ground running, and learn on the job because the most important thing that you can do is get experience. Nothing will teach you more than experience. You can do a university course, but when you leave it, it's like, what do I actually do? How do I even get a job? Like, what do I even do in your job? Experience is the only way that you will, and making mistakes, making mistakes and experience.

Yeah, it's like a, it's a hard truth that I think you just, you kind of have to learn yourself, right? Or I think actually the only other way that you can replicate that is by somebody who really means something to you telling you that and putting real emphasis on it. And, and I imagine in your journey from going not, not knowing how to do business at all and relatively self-taught, maybe with the help of a little bit of business degree, um, mentorship's probably been a very important thing in your— in building your business. Talk to me about what a successful mentorship relationship looks like and how you can actually find one.

Yeah, to be fair, I didn't actually have too many mentors growing up. Well, Well, apart from my parents obviously running their own company, I saw that. I think that just kind of gave me the image of how to run it, but I actually, most of it was self-taught through just like online, just researching things up, YouTube videos. I found finding a mentor quite difficult because of my age. I think if you're in an, and especially I had no corporate background, so a lot of people that I know that set up companies have come from a corporate background where they've had connections, they've had a bit of a network to build off of anyway. I didn't have any of that. So I think the most important thing that I found was just, one, teaching myself a lot through what I could find online. Podcasts, podcasts are incredible 'cause you also hear about other founders and how they've started up. But also LinkedIn. I found that a lot of mentors then came later on as soon as I started posting on LinkedIn because I was getting my name out there and I put a problem out there and someone would come back and like, 'Oh, I can help you with this.' So it's just about, you know, admitting your own mistakes and like saying that you need help with something, and someone will come up 100%, always do.

Okay, so you mentioned LinkedIn there, and I can't— I can't, uh, we can't go on this conversation much longer without mentioning, um, the meteoric rise that you've had recently. Um, and, and I think, you know, it'd be very easy to sit here and ask questions about how you can optimize your profile or how you can grow your reach, but I want to start more on a student, you know, we were talking about this beforehand, that we both were like, what is this? When we first went on there, what use is this of me? What's changed since in terms of your mentality to why this is a very overpowered platform for young people?

Yeah, so I mean, I set up my LinkedIn when I was at university because I think one of our— like, I went to a lecture one day and they're like, we have to set up your LinkedIn. Didn't think of anything of it, it was completely dead, didn't post on it, um, until like a year ago. And when my friend said to me, oh, you should probably start posting on here, just Document your journey, see how it goes. So she kind of helped me like just, you know, start here with a couple posts and kind of understood it. But when I started actually writing my own things, that is when I saw like crazy growth because I think what was so different that on LinkedIn it's kind of got the stigma behind it that, you know, it's all very corporate. You know, it's for the older generation of like 30 to 50-year-olds, but it's not really. So, I think I just had the advantage that I was quite young doing something quite different and I think people just really liked it, loved the backing of it and wanted to see the growth of a business from a very small stage, like I'm completely startup. So, seeing something build every single month is quite, is fun. It's like building people into the journey as well and I think everyone seems to be part of the community now part of the Peppermint community. So even if they're not directly buying from my company, they're just seeing how it grows and within that I'm getting help, I'm getting support and just like more validation from people that I'm doing okay, I think. 'Cause a lot of it's been self-inflicted, like I've always been a team of one so I think I'm also my worst enemy in terms of, you know, self-doubt and things like that. So I think through LinkedIn, it's kind of given me that confidence boost to keep going and just keep with my vision and consistency with it.

Yeah, you mentioned earlier on actually about when you were in college struggling with mental health, and was that a common theme of self-doubt for you then, and not maybe believing in yourself?

Yeah, no, I think I just had really low self-confidence, especially going through college. I think it's always quite a difficult time when you're like 16, 17, 18. You just don't really know what you're doing or who you are. You haven't discovered that yet. And I found it quite difficult. And I'm also a bit of a perfectionist, so it's great when it comes to work, 'cause it means I'm always striving for better, but it's not so good when it comes to myself. So I went through a really difficult page, like my self-confidence was pretty low. And I think actually my business has really helped me with that because once I've grown my business, my self-confidence has also grown as well, mainly because I've had to literally just push myself outside my comfort zone. Like, for example, this podcast today. Yeah, I don't think I could have done that like 4 years ago. Um, so it's really helped me kind of just, you know, push that— push myself outside the comfort zone and know that it's not actually that bad and like people are there to help you.

Yeah, and I think, uh, you Yeah, thank you for sharing that so authentically. And I think, you know, that is a common theme in your content. You said you started writing the posts for yourself, and I think it sounds like obvious, right? But I think a lot of people, it's glamorized, this quick success you can get on LinkedIn, right? Um, and, you know, people, personal branding, and they take over other people's accounts. So, you know, say someone is thinking of starting and they're like, oh, it's going to be cringe, I want to put myself out there. What was your message to them to sort of push through those feelings?

I think everyone thinks it's cringe to begin with, but it's not. It's all about just writing your story, and I think the more authentic you are and the more, like, true to you are for yourself, that's what people really relate to. And I think people are more likely to support people rather than big companies. So you just need to make sure that, like, you're completely authentic, telling the truth. Don't be scared to, like, admit your mistakes. I do it all the time, and I always find that that is the posts that do the well, like, the best. Because I think people realize, like, it's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to keep growing, to keep learning, and that's all part of business as well. So, my startup, like, I've done so many really bad mistakes, but each time I've learnt something new, and I've now completely shifted my mindset on that. So, any advice, I would just say, just go for it. Just think of something each day, something that you've learnt, something that, you know, you made a mistake on, and just, talk about it, just put it out there. People support that.

Yeah, no, I've definitely felt a similar thing where like it is— it, it's kind of— it doesn't get spoken about enough how, um, intrinsically linked your career and self-esteem is to, you know, yourself. And yeah, and I think, yeah, it's not to say that you can only derive happiness from your business or career— that in itself is a bad mindset— but it is important to stress and really think about who you are in a career sense, right? So you can actually, yeah, you can make yourself feel as fulfilled and happy as possible.

And also stick to your values all the way through as well. I think a lot of people lose that the more successful they get. So if you can stick to your values from day one and keep that going, that really stands out quite a lot.

Yeah, for sure. And given that this podcast is all about feeling heard in a career sense. Um, if there is somebody listening to this and, and you want people to understand, you know, they'll see all the success and the glitz and glamour on LinkedIn, you know, who you are in a career sense and, and how they can achieve that, you know. Yeah, how would you describe yourself like as a person?

I do not stop. I'm very determined, but I think I just have a really big passion for what I do. I genuinely love my business, but you'll see a lot of stuff that I post online that's all like, oh, I've had an event today, I've had a partnership today. That partnership was only because I stayed up to 2 AM working my ass off to do it. There's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that people do not see. And I think if you have a passion and you have a goal, you just have to go for it and give it all you've got. Like I have as well, and there's stuff that's just not worked, there's stuff that's done really well. And each time of like, I feel like I've maybe stepped back, I maybe stepped forward, it's all part of the journey. There will be a rollercoaster that you have to take. It's not gonna be easy, but it's so worth it, 100% so worth it.

It's quite an exciting timestamp in your business right now to be speaking to you, and there's obviously a lot to come. Can you give us a bit of an insight into, yeah, where your head's at with the future? You know, you're probably almost feeling quite overwhelmed by the traction you're getting. What are you doing right now to make sure that your next steps are the ones you want to be making?

Yeah, so this is a really interesting point for my company. I think I've been running it for 4 years and it's kind of got to the point where I'm like, it's time to get bigger. So, I'm completely doing a whole rebrand, new website, but the main thing for me is to expand my team, 'cause I've always just been a team of one. So, the future for me and Peppermint has always been like, I want to have a good team, I really want to give back to people, so I'm trying to, both emphasize on sustainability because I've always really wanted to incorporate, you know, doing good for the planet within my business. But I also want to give back to the people as well. So, if I can host events where, you know, people can meet new people, which is incredibly difficult nowadays with social media, that's exactly where I want to go with my company. I want to give back to the people. I want to build a community around it so everyone has the same products. But also give back to the planet. And it's, difficult in doing so because how do I do it all by myself? Who do I ask for help? And like, how can you get help? Um, so that's why LinkedIn has really helped me because there's a lot of people that are out there that are just willing to help you regardless. Like, you don't have to pay them. Um, if you just ask for people like, oh, I saw that you did XYZ, can you give me some guidance on that? A lot of people would love to help you. You just have to Actually ask, 'cause you never get what you don't ask for.

Yeah, no, it's true. I think there's also a skill in knowing when someone's got the right intentions. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I think so. I think that comes with experience. I think the more people you talk to, the more you kind of understand who's trying to take advantage of you or who's genuinely wanting to help. And I think it's just a judgment of character, so you need to build that up for yourself. But again, that comes with experience and just making mistakes.

And sustainability, obviously that's a big feature in your brand. Why is it so important to you?

Yeah, so I've always been really interested in this from such a young age. Like, I wanted to be a marine biologist, then I did environmental science at college. I think it's just 'cause I value nature and the planet that we live on so much. Like, we take, but we also have to give, because at the end of the day, if we don't have a healthy, thriving planet, what do we have? We have nothing. So, and like most creative ideas and like the happiest I am is when I'm in nature. So, I think it's such an important element to any company now and especially going forward for the future. Like, it's not looking too good, guys. We should probably think about it more and I think every single business should have that responsibility because they take but they should also give. So, it's really important for me going forward and I know there's a lot of elements that I still trying to work on As technology goes, that's where it happens anyway, and there's, you know, so much one person can do, but there's always the intention behind that, and that's a value that I will stick strong with going forward with my company, always, always.

Love it, and my final question to you, which I ask every single one of my guests, is when you were 18, at the beginning of your business, you might have had a certain idea of what business success and career success might go on to look like, fast forward with everything you've learned and everything that's changed along the way, what is your definition of success and how has it changed?

Definition of success. I think just generally loving what you do. I wake up every single day loving what I do. Like, I remember going to school and I'd be like, hit the snooze alarm, don't wanna do that again. I generally wake up with so much passion and I think once you've found a career or a job that you love or maybe you wanna start up your business, you will find that happiness. And it's just having that every single day is so rewarding because at the end of the day, you've got to be happy, haven't you? That's, that's life.

That is life. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Come on.

Yeah, thank you.