Live Event: Kola Tytler, CEO @ Dropout

Welcome back to another episode of The Grad Guide. Today is a very special day for two reasons. We are here with a big packed-out audience at our studio in London, and we've got Kola. Kola is the founder of Dropout and also, as it happens, a doctor. There's so many different ways that we can take this interview, which makes it almost difficult to know where to start, but For you, how would you describe what it is you do right now, um, you know, both in a business sense and on a day-to-day basis?

Uh, thank you for having me, first of all, and thanks everyone for coming. Um, I don't think I have any easy answers to that question, to be honest. Um, you know, my day-to-day is so varied, you know, I do do different things. Um, one constant probably is my, you know, my medical job. Um, I'm a GP specialty trainee, which means essentially I'm a fully qualified doctor that will be a GP from next August. I work in South London. In terms of my business instead, that's a business based in Italy, Milan, in the fashion industry. We have physical— we have physical stores in Milan, and we also operate a pretty busy e-commerce. I sort of work mostly on the strategy and on the you know, on the sort of marketing of the business. I do a lot on the data analysis and, you know, how we're going to make sure the business remains profitable, how we make sure that the business, you know, carries forward, and, you know, how we sort of think about what the business will look like in the future. This is probably what I would say, you know, I do in a, I would say, you know, streamlined manner. And yeah.

Yeah, and I think when you were at university, is this where you thought you would end up? Because I know that medicine wasn't what you initially went to do, um, and, you know, fashion seemed like more of a passion project at the time. So to have your, your business being in your passion projects, how have you found that?

I think, um, just for clarity's sake, I think, uh, there's something slightly incorrect there. So just to be clear, um, Growing up, you know, I was the classical, you're good at school, uh, you know, your African parents, he's good at school, he's going to be a doctor. That was me. So, you know, come 18, what am I going to do? I did apply to medical school, I got into medical school, I went to medical school. Um, so actually the plan to be a doctor was always there. Um, and you know, I did, I did go through that. However, during medical school, I realized a few things. You know, especially I think my frustration grew quite a lot by the fact that, you know, I'd moved to London from Rome. I realized that in my, you know, amongst my coursemates, I couldn't quite relate really well in terms of the interests that they had. You know, I was playing basketball within the university club, and there I had a little bit more in common with the people, you know, I was surrounded with. But again, I realized that probably I just felt a little bit almost always the outsider in the things I was involved in. So I took to the online world. And I met some people online. And the people that I met online is pretty much how my interest within the streetwear world started— rather than started, developed. And then me and a friend of mine online actually ended up launching a news outlet on Twitter initially, which was called Yeezy Mafia. It became really, really big. I think he got like 3 million followers or something of that extent. We decided to monetize that, all of these wheels that was starting. And from there, you know, it just went on and on until I realized that actually the streetwear world was so big, so interesting, so, you know, there was so much financial opportunity. And, you know, because he had a bit of knowledge, you know, of the industry as well as some statistical knowledge from, you know, from the statistics part of my degree, I could make maybe something viable from that. So whilst in, I think, fourth year of medical school, I started a business, which I started in Milan, so remotely. I've never lived in Milan, I've lived in London for 11 years now. And, you know, it wasn't easy. My mind was all over the place, you know, I didn't know what to do. I was so tired of uni and I wanted to drop out. So the business is called Dropout because of that. And then also because I was a strong Kanye fan, as you can imagine from Yeezy Mafia. And one of my favorite albums from Kanye West was College Dropout. So, you know, there was quite a lot of things that came together on that note. But ultimately, you know, I did decide to stick with university. So I completed the course. I'd say, to be honest, you know, it wasn't easy. My average was really, really low. So, you know, one thing I would say right off now, you know, I was the classical struggling student, you know, I was the student that was just about scraping by. But you know, they say, you know, what do you call the last student in the medical class? You know, still a doctor at the end of it. So, you know, I qualified. Things looked up significantly since I finished the degree. You know, working, I enjoyed it so much more than when I was studying. The business grew, you know, at a pretty good rate. You know, we ended up getting quite a bit of recognition both in Italy and outside. And then, you know, I think now it's a pleasure to be able to, you know, share my experience to, you know, to crowds like this.

Yeah, I think what's really interesting there is that, you know, I mean, a lot of people, they go into university and they pick a degree because at 18 you just have to pick something. And whether that's what they're like truly passionate about and want to do as a career might be a slightly different thing, especially something like medicine or architecture. You know, that's 7 years, and it's a long time of being pigeonholed into doing one thing in your career. That you picked to do at AIT, and what would you say to anyone that might be doing, you know, something at university just because they picked it as a degree that they thought they'd like, in terms of like thinking bigger and thinking about, you know, how can you do entrepreneurship at university?

I think it's a, again, I think it's a great question and there's probably no easy answer. You know, I can tell you my approach to this, 'cause obviously, you know, I had this dilemma, right? And so many times, you know, I can't even count the amount of times that I've been asked, so, you know, which one are you going to pick? You know, which one are you going to choose? Are you going to be this, are you going to be that? And I think I realized quite early that actually, you know, as individuals, we're not necessarily, you know, confined within the boundaries of our university degree. We're not really confined within the boundary of the university modules. You know, we can, you know, especially if, you know, I guess a lot of you guys are students in London, you know, like I have been for so many years. And there's so many things to do in London. You know, I studied at King's College London and I took part into projects with the, you know, Institute of War. I did something with the Parliament. I did something with, um, you know, the Institute of Languages. So actually, you know, the opportunities are there. I think, you know, you might need to take a little bit extra steps to go and find them, uh, and, you know, you might get a lot of, you know, sort of people that look at you weird because like, what are you doing here? You know, this is not your course. But it doesn't really matter. I think, you know, if you, if you think that you have an interest, you know, if you think that you have you know, a passion that maybe is a bit different from what you're, you know, from your mainstream or, you know, course or career, I think, you know, just go for it. That's, that's, you know, the way that I, I thought about this.

So you mentioned that you went through significant, um, barriers to when you were working on your business and, you know, trying to balance your medical school as well. Can you just go into a bit more detail on what that was like for you and how you overcame it? Because I can imagine quite a lot of students are going through rough times and sometimes it can be quite hard to persevere. So you initially said you even wanted to drop out, but you continued to go through it. So can you just talk about the struggles you went through and then how you actually overcame them?

I think I realized that, you know, the sort of first and foremost, I think the first barrier is, you know, is in your mind. So for me, you know, all this conflict was inside my head, I'd say, for the most part. You know, there was an element of, okay, you know, you're not doing so great. So there is objectively the fact that if you're just scraping by, is this really for you? You know, there's also that. But I'd say, you know, for me, um, a lot of it was about not wanting to, to regret something in the future. So I always thought, you know, first of all, the business, you know, can always fail next quarter, next two quarters, next year. You don't really know. Um, and I thought, you know, I don't want to have, uh, you know, I don't want to be someone who regrets having left, you know, something that ultimately I did work hard to get into medical school, you I did work hard to go through the different years. And then, you know, I did enjoy the outcome of— and I do enjoy the outcome of, you know, seeing patients getting better, you know, speak with different people. I learned so much from my patients every day, you know, from my colleagues, you know, from the different professionals. So I think to me it was about balancing, you know, the sort of the risk-benefits of, you know, what if I leave and what if I continue? Plus as well, the fact that, you know, me as a sort of in terms of my personality, I'm not someone that quits, I would say. I think, you know, I relate a lot to what, you know, sort of Zulum said earlier about, you know, yes, just putting yourself out there, trying, you know. I think, you know, I will always repeat this, you know, I'd much rather do something and I fail than just, you know, give up or, you know, not do it. So I think to me that was really ultimately my, you know, my driver. It was about, you know, sort of self-motivating myself and and, uh, you know, realizing that actually, yeah, you know, I can go through this and I can, you know, I can make it past the difficulties.

And I just want to talk about a bit more about your business journey. So, um, when you initially started, what, what were the steps that you took? Because you said that you built over 3 million, um, followers on your platform, and that's very impressive. So, um, how did you— what did you initially do that kind of set you up reach that level of success? Was there anything in particular that you did that really helped you? Was it just a matter of time?

I think that, that was probably, you know, what you'd call luck. I, even though I actually don't really believe in luck, I believe that, you know, you put yourself into different circumstances and then it may work out, it may not. But, you know, you have to be there, you know, to be, you know, to have a chance, right? Um, you know, that started for us as a, as a project, you know, that's that sort of social you know, social media page. It wasn't the outcome of, you know, what my business is now, because that was something else, but it is what, you know, ultimately I channeled into the current business. And I think what set us apart there was the fact that we were giving, you know, people online information that they wanted to hear about streetwear, about sneakers, where, you know, the average person interested in sneakers and streetwear was probably someone that the traditional media wasn't really interested in speaking with. So we were speaking to an underground world that people just weren't really interested in. So that really helped us. I think that the other media wasn't really looking at how big this public was. And then I think after that, to me, it became about— because of the nature of that social channel, We were sort of tied into the policies of Twitter, then the policies on Instagram, then because we were so tied to Kanye West's name, we were also quite related to what Kanye would do, which we all know. So we thought, you know, I thought actually I want to do something that is not tied to someone else or something. I want to be much more in control. And that's when I said, okay, you know, I see in Milan a strong market gap for the streetwear industry targeted to younger people. Because for, you know, someone like me, from as a consumer, you know, from a consumer standpoint, you know, you go to Milan, maybe, you know, you're a young colored person which maybe can afford to spend whatever, you know, for their clothing. But if you walk into Prada, you know you don't belong. You know, you walk into Gucci, you know you don't belong. And I realized that if you went to New York, you know, you'd walk into Stadium Goods, you'd walk into Flight Club, you know, you'd walk into certain stores and, you know, you would belong. And I saw that that was lacking in Milan. So, you know, I got in touch with people that I'd met again online in Milan. And I said, actually, guys, you know, why don't we set up our own? You know, I realized that there's, you know, there's no store that speaks to people like me. And I think that we can do it. So, you know, why don't we go on and do it? And, you know, we went on and did it. And now, you know, I'm very proud to say that, you know, our store at the moment, like our flagship now is in front of the Dolce Gabbana store. In the Quadrilatero di Milano. So, you know, we are among the big boys, and, uh, you know, that is something that I think, you know, 10 years ago maybe no one would have, would have imagined. So, um, you know, I think that happened because, you know, we, you know, we, we realized that, yeah, we could fail, but, you know, we still took the, the steps and we went and did it.

That's a— it's incredibly inspiring story, and I think what I'm very interested in is, yeah, you, in your initial stages, you're building up this hype and this attention. But then the actual next step is building a business out of that, which, you know, isn't your background, and it's just something you kind of have to learn on the job. And I think a lot of people can paint entrepreneurship, especially as a young age, is like very difficult, you shouldn't do it, or like mess up your life. But it's like some people can make it seem very inaccessible. But I wonder from you, if there's people sitting in this room wondering, oh okay, I'm inspired, I want to do something for myself and, and give something to this world, Why would you encourage someone to try out entrepreneurship in your early life?

I think for me it's about, um, you know, it's about not having regrets. Um, you know, I'd add— I will add a little context, a little personal story, um, which probably shapes, you know, my, my way of thinking. Uh, you know, when I, when I was 16, I went to a birthday party. Um, you know, it was a friend of mine. She was actually daughter of doctors, and her parents were children of doctors. Even a strong family of doctors. Um, Basically, you know, I go to this birthday party and next I know I wake up in an intensive care unit. So I actually passed out. I have a heart condition and I passed out in a swimming pool. And, you know, I was very close to, you know, to not making it. So from there I realized that actually for me it's very, very important that, you know, if I am in a situation where, you know, maybe there's no recovery, you know, I don't want to have any regrets that, you know, I didn't do what I could have done. So that's what shapes my thinking. So for me, really, you know, the reality is that everything I do is about, you know, what if I do it versus what if I don't do it. And if I think that, you know, if I think that I can do it, I think, you know, the possibility of failure is not going to stop me because I know that the regret is worse for me. And again, you know, I realize that this is not necessarily relatable to everyone, you know, and I also realize that, you know, ultimately, you know, most things do fail. Yes, for sure. You know, probably, you know, my business at some point, you know, things will take a turn for the worse. It is what it is. But again, to me, it's about the satisfaction of, you know, getting there, you know, challenging yourself, uh, you know, try and getting the best out of you and the people around you every day. Um, and also, you know, I think that in business, in entrepreneurship, you know, one of the greatest things is that you get to meet so many cool, wonderful people that are so much better than you that it just humbles you continuously. And I think that that, for me, is probably one of the best things. Um, and that, that alone, I think, for me is worth, you know, setting up a business. Because I think even if you fail, you know, the journey will be so invaluable that, you know, I think you just, you know, you might as well go for it.

You mentioned that you've spoken to quite a few people online, and that really brought— that came to my attention in terms of, you know, you were making connections, you were networking. And I'm guessing this probably facilitates some of the growth that you had, not just in your personal life but also a business. So, um, I can imagine there's quite a few students here who probably, um, hear the term networking but they don't quite understand how to— what it even is properly, and then how to actually utilize that in their life. So could you just talk a bit more about how networking has helped you, what networking is, and how it's helped you, um, in your career?

I think, I think I'm, I'm probably not the best example in the sense that I'm, I think, relatively shy in the sense that, you know, I'll go You know, I'll go to a party, I might actually be standing in the corner. I could be that guy. But I realized that, you know, yes, studying, you know, I actually study, you know, I literally did 8 years of university between the medical degree and the master I did after. And, you know, as Zulum know, I'm about to go in August to do another 2 years of university. I'm doing another course. So that will be 10 years of uni. Yet I think that is not really what you study. It's about the people that you meet. You know, it's about the connections that you form. It's about, you know, uh, getting— it's not really, I think, extrapolating value from people, but I think it's about realizing that ultimately, you know, the next person maybe has something that you, um, you know, that you need, or something that can help you, or some advice, or some, you know, some words of wisdom, something like that. And I think that that really is what it is about. Um, and equally, I think, you know, everything that you do— yes, there is the, you know, solopreneur concept, you know, going around out there, but You know, personally, I've never ever heard of anything that you can do completely on your own. So really, you know, you might as well building the fund, you know, the, you know, the putting the groundwork, you know, for anything that you do in the future. Um, and I think, you know, that's what, that's what the, the importance of networking is, is for me.

Yeah, one thing I'm super interested in your journey with, not just networking but your life, you said a lot of times you put yourself out of your comfort zone, whether that's you feeling like the outsider in certain situations. And I think obviously that's something that's set you up really well for business, you know, being out of your depth. And, and I wonder if, you know, especially for people in this room, they might be listening to things you're saying here and they're like, that's really interesting, you know, I really think that I've got an idea that I'd like to bounce around with someone like you. And how, how would you actually say going from that idea and maybe not, you know, lacking inspiration to actually just go and do it, to, okay, I'm just gonna do it, like I'm gonna go to the right person and have that conversation. And maybe you've got an example in your life of somebody that massively inspired you to make them make a big jump.

Um, I think that, I think that is a very, very, uh, you know, very good question and also, you know, very, very good point. Uh, to me, as I said earlier, a lot of it comes from self-motivation. So I do also say that, you know, to me, a lot of these about, you know, it's literally you know, the voice on my shoulder sort of talking to me. So, you know, there's a lot of thinking, you know, that I do that ultimately gives me those answers. But equally, you know, it is the people around you, you know, whoever you are, whoever they are, you know, your friends, you know, your close, you know, your close relatives, you know, your relatives, or, you know, your partner if you have one, or, you know, people like that, people that you trust that are going to give you some honest input. I think those are the initial maybe soundboards that you want to make use of. And the reality, I think, is you want to find people that are honest, ideally, the people that if you are being an absolute fool, that are going to tell you. And yes, they might feel that you're a fool, like my sister did, like my ex-girlfriend did. But then, you know— she's done well for herself. But then you might end up thinking that, yeah, I disagree with them, but still, I think it's still quite important to be able to get a different perspective on whatever you do want to do. And then I would say, you know, in today's sort of day and age, I think, you know, do go and connect with people online. You know, there's so many people that, you know, I reached out to in the past, to be honest. You know, some people replied, some people didn't. You know, the ones that did, you know, I'm ever so thankful, you know, and I'm sure that you know, people actually don't mind. People actually are, are happy to be contacted for, you know, for advice or, you know, any sort of mentorship. So I would say, um, you know, just, just take the step and go and speak to, to other people if you can.

I'm curious, personally, having been delving into the world of entrepreneurship recently, I feel like there's enough learning as it is. There's a lot of steep learning curves, a lot of things I'm getting wrong and, and right, and, you know learning who I am in a business sense. And, and I can't believe you being an entrepreneur, you're still wanting to go back into university and, and learn in a different way maybe. But maybe talk us through that decision-making there and why you have spent so long in education and what it's really given to you.

Um, so fine. So I think, um, to me again, you know, for context, I grew up in a house where there was a lot of books like literally physically there was a lot of books, you know, you were looking around, we had a wall full of books, things like that. Um, and that thing really shaped my thinking in the sense that there's always been a strong importance placed by my parents into reading. And, uh, and you know, my dad, um, my dad used to say, you know, if you, you know, if he's a— he was a solicitor— he used to say, if you have, you know, if you know, uh, the law, if you know the relevant frameworks, people are less likely to you, you know, take the peace out of you, to be honest. And this is even more important when you are, you know, the only Black people in your neighborhood in a small town near Rome. So, you know, I think there's a lot of that as well. Um, and I think that made me, you know, realize that, uh, there's just, you know, you always need to be mindful that there's so many things that you don't know. And to me, it's about, to an extent, trying to reduce that gap. So, you know, after medical degree, um, after we started the business, I did an MBA which I completed about a year and a half ago or so. I am going to do now a formal course in entrepreneurship at Cambridge from August, and that is because mostly I don't think I really need the book knowledge. I think that you can get on YouTube if you want to. I think, you know, you don't really have to do any university degree for the actual knowledge that you can find online for free, or rather, you know, for the cost of the internet connection. Um, but You know, the networking and, you know, the, the structured systematic learning, I think that is the value. And for me now, really, it's all about the network. It's all about getting into the different rooms, you know, speaking with the different people, speaking with the people that can take my business from, you know, uh, you know, the level that it is now to the next, you know, sort of 10x level. You know, it's about my next venture, is about how am I going to make that 1,000 times bigger than what I've got now. And that, I think, you know, a lot of that goes via you know, the people that I know and the circles that I'm in. And that's actually why, you know, I thought about, you know, going into education, in education again.

Yeah, when you put it like that, it makes a lot of sense. Um, and I think one thing that I'm, I'm really curious now is, is how you— you know, you've done so much and, and in so many different spaces— how you actually perceive what success now looks like for you in your career. Um, I imagine when you were at university initially, you would have a certain idea of what a success— a successful career would look like to you. You know, fast forward to where you are now, I bet it's different. So what is your definition of success in a career sense?

I think interestingly, I think since, since that, um, you know, since that time I will, you know, I woke up in the intensive care, I think success has been the same, and it is about being happy. Uh, now, uh, you know, that may sound very cliché, but to me that is really true. And actually, I think, you know, one needs to ask, what makes you happy? And I think that will lead you to your answers to what success is. To me, I realized that, you know, what made me happy was, yeah, there was an element of, you know, uh, you know, financial consideration. I will not deny, uh, but not, not the key, you know, not them, not the primary driver. But there was an element of that, you know, being stable, being able to, you know, buy something nice if I want to. No, no needing to worry about certain things. That was certainly a part of it. But more importantly than that, to me, was about, you know, being able to relate with other people, being able to, you know, go to, uh, you know, events where I'm able to meet people that are so inspiring to me, uh, you know, being able to network with others, being able to, you know, have something that, you know, other people can relate to. Um, and I think that that is about, you know, that, that's, that's what is reflected being, you know, in my business. I think, you know, every time You know, someone comes to our store and, you know, they post a story on Instagram and they tag us, and I see the little notification even though I don't click on it, you know, it still makes me, you know, it fills me with joy to know that, you know, someone has taken time of their day to go and visit something that I created and that we created, in fact, because it's always a teamwork. And that is my, you know, definition of success, um, you know. And I think, again, you know, as of now, you know, I think it is dynamic in the sense that, you know, I think in 10 years' time, maybe, you know, there will be, you know, different drivers of what will make me happy. Maybe I would want to do something in the, uh, you know, business space within the healthcare setting. Maybe, uh, you know, just saying. And, and, um, you know, that, that could be the case, you know, in the future. But, uh, this is how, this is how I said.

So, um, it seems like you've put quite a lot of thought into thinking about what success means like to you. And I think sometimes with society, it's very easy to follow the status quo, like what society tells you what success looks like. And it seems like you've given a lot of thought into what you want your life to look like, and, you know, you've made a plan of some sort. Um, can you just talk us through the process of figuring out what you actually want to do as opposed to what you— what society dictates for you? Um, because I think it's quite important, especially as a student, like, you can just follow the trends, and sometimes you need to actually know where you actually want to go. So did you follow any sort of process into figuring out what exactly you wanted to do, or did it happen organically? And was it true planning, um, or reflections? So just something that they can, they can learn from.

I think I, I don't have no, you know, 3-year, 5-year plan. I know a lot of people do, and actually, uh, if you do, great. You know, it really does work for a lot of people. I've seen it, uh, just not for me. So I think you do need to figure out, you know, the type of person that you are and, you know, whether that is something that, you know, is useful for you or not. For me, there wasn't any formal or strategic or systematic planning. I'm a very— I think my mind is quite chaotic, in fact. So that probably would never really work for me anyway. But having said that, I think it's always been to me about thinking, as I was saying earlier, if not now, when? And if I don't do this, then what? And what will I think in 10 years' time if I didn't do— this, you know, when I could have, and why did I actually, you know, not do it. So, you know, as I said, to me it's always a balancing act. I think, you know, uh, probably that is something that medicine has even, uh, helped me develop, because in medicine, you know, whenever you are prescribing or giving a treatment, you actually do need to think, you know, the very first, uh, thing in medicine is do no harm. So, you know, you're always thinking of, uh, you know, the balancing of doing something versus doing nothing, or doing something versus something else. And it's about, you know, what is the benefit and risk of this, what is the benefit and risk of the other thing. And I think for me, again, you know, in life, that is the approach that I use. So, you know, I would say, um, you know, despite those things, you know, the entrepreneurial aspect, the medical aspect may seem somewhat disjointed. I think actually they are much less disjointed than it seems because I think the, the thinking, you know, even the strategic thinking is somewhat— I think there's quite a lot of crossover to me anyway, or I make use of that, you know, of that experience, you know, either side. So I think maybe that is what shaped my, you know, my sort of thinking, but, you know, no sort of planning or, you know, I don't have any mood board at home.

My final question to you, you know, you mentioned you're now trying to get into rooms with the right people and you referenced about, you know, your younger self, you know, looking to do that as well. And it made me think about if you were in this room, you know, 21-year-old yourself, the learnings you've made over the last few years, what would you say back to your younger self about how to really make the most of being in a room with exceptional people, whether you know it or not?

I think, I mean, you know, everyone that's here, you know, by the, by virtue of the fact that you're here makes me, you know, there's already clearly there's somewhat of a drive to connect with other people, I think. So, you know, I think the first step here has already been, been taken. So That's wonderful. You know, I don't know if I would have taken this step. You know, there's been a lot of, you know, events when I was in uni that I wanted to go, but, you know, I just couldn't get myself out of bed. Not because I was lazy, but just because I was, again, you know, I was that shy kid, you know. I was, I remember being invited to so many ACS events, you know, as, you know, as someone was saying that they're part of, and just not going, you know. And looking back, I think actually, you know, maybe that is something I would do differently. So I would say, you know, university, I think, is a great place where you know, a lot of the steps of, you know, meeting people are sort of sorted for you because a lot of the events, you know, some people like yourself, you know, they've taken the, the, you know, the difficulty of organizing and arranging. So I think, you know, make use of that. I would say, uh, you know, try and speak to people. You know, as I said, I'm saying this, know that I'm really not the best person for this, to say this, but ultimately I think it is the reality. Um, you know, last, last year I went to, you know, I went to— now I think I'm much better to, you know, in doing this. I go to much, you know, to a lot more events nowadays. You know, last year I went to so many events, you know, I made a conscious effort of speaking to more and more people. And, you know, and when people, you know, came and speak to me, not being, you know, like that, you know, sort of being closed but appearing more open, because that really helps. So I would say, you know, try and, you know, try and put yourself out there. I think there's a bunch of TED Talks, you know, on YouTube about, you know, your body language and about you know, how that shapes, you know, how people see you and how, you know, you see other people. So I think those are worth looking at, in my humble opinion. Um, and I think, you know, that's maybe some actionable steps that, you know, I would, I would share. Love it.

And we're going to open up to the room now for questions. Thanks so much for coming on, mate.

Thank you.