Lucie Hayter, Founder @ The Gut Feeling

Welcome back to another episode of The Graduate Guide. Today is a special day because I'm joined by Marleen, who will be co-hosting with me for the first time. Hello, Marleen. Hi. And our guest today is Lucy, and she is a founder of The Gut Feeling. Lucy, if you could just start off by giving us a quick run-through of your career so far?

Yeah, so it might help just to give a one-liner. So The Gut Feeling is an app that helps people with gut issues find relief. That's where we're at today in 2023. But yeah, let's backtrack. So I started uni in 2012 and I went to Bristol Uni, did languages, and I started in a perhaps slightly different way than other students perhaps start. I started and I had a really severe head injury, so I joined uni kind of like not having taken my A-levels, having got in on predicted grades. So really kind of very different uni experience. Like, I couldn't drink and stay out with all of my friends. So it was very kind of humbling, let's say, start to uni. But I had also like the benefit of a nice amount of perspective. I think it's quite rare at 17, 18 you have like such a critical health issue, and it really like made me reassess my priorities. I used to work really hard at school, and it kind of just made me wonder why I— what I was aiming for in doing that. So that's a little bit of perspective there. Um, so I left university, um, and at the time in fourth year, you know, everyone was applying for— so I did languages, so I was on my year abroad, um, and had multiple gut issues following the head injury. So I can talk more about that and the inspiration for the business. But in my fourth year, everyone was applying for grad schemes and So, I kind of followed suit, sat down, and was spending almost a day writing these applications, which is obviously a lot of time when you're trying to do your finals. And then, it got to the last question of this application for this large SMCG, and it was like, "Why do you want to work for this company?" And it was at this point that I realized I did not want to work for the company. So, I actually left uni and went to work for a startup, much to my dad's disappointment. He was like, "You go to university, it helps you get your first job." and he was like, "Why are you going to work for a startup that no one's ever heard of?" Best decision ever. I left uni and then almost went straight into work for the startup and was doing so many different things. So, the startup was like a marketing advertising startup called Joule. They're actually doing really, really well today, and the CEO is still a mentor of me, and he also mentors my business, which is very helpful. And it was just great. I got so much experience going straight out of uni into a startup, wearing all kinds of different hats, meeting so many different people. And then I went on to go and work in management consultancy after that. But yeah, slightly different approach to management consultancy. I can tell you more about that.

It sounds really interesting. I would like to know more, like you mentioned earlier that you, you know, you felt in this position where you were like applying for jobs and then you felt in this position that you actually weren't really interested in in going into a corporate career. What do you think influenced that, like, from your personal experiences, that you felt that wasn't really for you and you were more interested in working for a startup?

I think a couple of different things. Um, I think the, like, the health issue that I had, like the head injury and then these really severe gut issues, like, just they kind of stop you from doing things and you have a lot of time to think about, like, what you actually want to get out of life. And I think We're all moving so fast and university happens really quickly. And I just realized that I wanted to have impact in what I did. I didn't kind of just want to be a part of a big corporate. That didn't really work for me. I wanted to be doing fun things that I enjoyed. And I knew that I wanted to prioritize learning over earning a huge salary out of uni. That's a very privileged position to be in. Some of my friends who had to get that high-paying job out of university to send money home, and I could also live at home for the first year, just outside of London, and commute in, which obviously saved on rent. So, it was a privileged decision to make. And yeah, I'm really glad it definitely served me better, being able to have that impact, and being given responsibility, and learning early on. But that's not to say the corporate route is the wrong route, right? It's just the route that worked for me.

How did you have the awareness of the startup world while at university? When did you start thinking about it, and like, was there an element of just trying it out before you went in there without really knowing what the, the result of it would be?

Um, yeah, good question. I don't really know, I can't really remember exactly how I got into that world, but I do remember joining Entrepreneurial Society, which I later found out years later that was one of the main reasons I actually got to interview at this startup. So, the startup I left, it was a super competitive internship. And yeah, it turns out that apparently having Entrepreneurial Society on your CV really does make the interviewer think, so, top tip there. I think through that work, and then Bristol is very kind of like startup hub, and there were lots of startups, and it was very kind of independent place, lots of interesting stuff going on. I think the university had a few schemes as well, which I can't really remember, but I think being a part of things like funding, and Basecamp, that was it. So I think exposure through that, like where I went to university, having the perspective of, yeah, really wanting to get the most out of life. Um, yeah, probably, probably where I ended up there. Nice.

So, um, when you started out at Jewel— was the company, right? When you started out and you didn't really know much about entrepreneurship, what do you think was the sort of mindset you got introduced to and the skills you learned that then motivated you to eventually become a founder yourself?

Yeah, I think a very humbling thing going to work for a startup is, I think, you know, when you get to 18 and you hear someone's 30, you think, you know, they must have everything sorted in their life. And in the same way, when you're, you know, 20, 21, you leave university and you go and work for a business, you think, oh, you know, this business, this must have it all sorted. And then you go and work for a startup and realize that actually it's not at all the case. And, like, there's, like, one person holding up 3 people who's holding up a company. Trying to raise an investment round, I think it's quite almost like relieving to know that everyone hasn't got their shit sorted out and the stuff you can do to make a difference. So, I really enjoyed that. I'd say it was a great opportunity for me to really network within startup scene. We were constantly at events, like meeting different people. It was just so great, so much fun. And yeah, I was writing things like blogs. I was also doing sales stuff as well. And that was kind of the start of me building my sales skills and realizing that actually that was something that I was quite good at. That, and that was really helpful. So I guess like that whole period was me kind of figuring out more about myself. Like, I'd done that university, but like building on that, working that, working out that I like talking to people, like I enjoyed marketing but I had a bit of a knack for sales. Um, and the project that I was running within Joule was like focusing on like health businesses. Um, and then yeah, that made me realize that I was really loving the industry. So lots of learning in a very short period of time there.

And you make all these, these learnings, which is great, and it puts you in a good position that if you did want to start something of your own, you would have some knowledge on how you'd go about doing that. However, maybe the more important thing is the idea behind it and why you're doing it. And I think everyone focuses on, like, needing to be really passionate about the problem or the job or the company you're trying to build. But maybe even more important and applicable to why you started your company is a problem that there wasn't a proper solution to, and it annoyed you so much that you felt you had to start it. Yeah, so talk us through that, that journey and where the idea sort of stemmed from.

Yeah, sure. So, um, throughout this journey from— I can't remember when I started— I had a health blog which I think I started around the same time I left university. Because I was very interested in health, and that kind of like ran parallel to the startup, and then the two management consultancies that I worked for after university. So, I always had something kind of going on the side. When I went traveling after working for this startup, I tried to start a few businesses. Hilariously, one which is like importing alpaca jumpers from Peru almost got funded, which is hilarious. I have no idea why that someone would fund that, but anyhow, there we go. And so, I always wanted to start something, probably one of the reasons for going to work for a startup, and then also both of my parents are entrepreneurs, and so I was really inspired by, you know, the life they were able to, to give all of us and also like the flexibility and time that they had. You know, that was something that even if I didn't appreciate it then was very much, yeah, I think a reason for me going into this. So I started this specific business, The Gut Feeling, because I had terrible gut issues. So when I was at university, I was going on my year abroad and I'd previously had this horrendous kidney infection. I was in uni, as you can tell, like my early 20s were not great for health perspective. Active and slowly kind of built my health back up. And then as a result of all the antibiotics I had, I started to develop really severe gut issues. So I literally looked 9 months pregnant. It was horrible. I had no idea what was going on. I was living in Paris at the time. I lived above a patisserie that sold croissants, which ironically I couldn't eat because then I would look 10 months pregnant. It wasn't very fun. I can look back and laugh now, thankfully. But yeah, at the time I couldn't go for a run. I often couldn't go to work because I felt so unwell and I was so worried that there was something like really, really critically wrong with me. Because doctors were kind of saying, oh, we think you're fine, which wasn't very reassuring given that my symptoms were like very, very real. And so I went on this 6-year journey of trying to find out what was going on and start to feel better. And looking back, it didn't need to take 6 years. I just didn't have the right tools. So I started The Gut Feeling essentially 3 years ago because so many of my friends see me going through this journey of having terrible gut issues and then being in a position where I could eat everything and I was no longer looking like I was 9 months pregnant and they wanted to know what I did. So that led to the Gut Feeling. I started with a mission to help inspire people about gut health and looking after their gut. So we started off as a subscription box and then after that we migrated into an app. So our app is built by ex-gut sufferers like me, but then also dietitians, doctors, gastroenterologists, and we have a series of programs to help people with gut issues primarily. So it's like less than 10 minutes a day on the app, a combination of like actionable tips from those experts as well as like access to a toolkit of yoga, recipes, mindfulness, all the kind of things that we know are like proven to help people improve their gut issues.

Why do you think there's a stigma around speaking about your gut health? Because I think a lot of other forms of health get spoken about and, and I have my own troubles with gut health while at university because I don't think The university lifestyle is exactly very kind to your gut. Um, but yeah, I mean, I just found it weird that I would like, for example, sit with my mates watching something, just start feeling really uncomfortable and like playing around my chest, but like to try and play it off as if nothing was wrong. And like, no one would really get it if they weren't going through it. But probably everyone has had it, it's just not spoken about. So do you— any reasons you think that is?

I think it's just one of those taboo things, and I think it is slowly changing, right? Like even when I was in university, like gut health wasn't a thing. People didn't talk about their gut health like it was absolutely not a thing. I think people didn't even recognize that they have an issue. And now that's slowly starting to change. We know that it's like super common, right? Almost 1 in 2 people have gut issues globally. Like it's very common. And so I think the taboo hopefully is starting to break down. And one of the things that we do with The Gut Feeling is like, like sharing like credible information and tips and encouraging people to talk about it because, you know, the same with mental health. If you, if you have a problem, and you need to get help, you need to get help. And it's the same thing with gut issues. You know, if you're experiencing frequent constipation, diarrhea, reflux, you should be going to your doctor and just getting it checked out. Like, it's extremely unlikely you have things like Crohn's, like other forms of IBD or celiac disease or colon cancer. They're like really rare. But it's important that you go and get those checked out. And I think the more people that go and get checked out, the quicker that they can get served and they can rule out those things and then they can deal with the problem at hand. So it's something we're working to reduce the taboo around, but we need, we need all the help we can get.

Yeah, I think it's so lovely that you're doing that because it really reminded me of when I was younger, I had an eating disorder and then I recovered. Like, I also really struggled with my gut. Like, now it's gotten a lot better, gladly. But I remember being in that position where I think more conversations around like gut health, but also like an app would have helped so much. And what I'm really interested in, like going back when you kind of realised that you had gut issues and then some of your friends also experienced that problem, what, what sort of made the decision that you kind of realised it was a problem to start a business from? Can you walk us through that process of how you decided to turn like that issue that you felt was prevalent amongst your friends into something that then turned out to be The Gut Feeling?

Yeah, sure. And also, yeah, eating disorders, gut issues are really, really common as well as menopause and all the kind of things that actually you wouldn't necessarily expect. So no, thank you for sharing that with me and I'm glad that your gut is feeling better. So in terms of how did I get to that position to realize that this could be a valuable business? So previous to this, I'd worked a bit for a startup and I've been working in management consultancy. So I actually went to work for quite like a niche, small intelligent automation consultancy where I was given a hilarious amount of responsibility in my early 20s, like running these huge technology projects with massive companies in Mexico, in Spanish. It was hilarious and gave me a lot of responsibility and also thinking about how to solve problems. And so, taking that and then onto the bigger consultancy I went on to work for, but more in kind of like a health and innovation sense, I had a good bit of training behind me, which was all about, you know, thinking about how to solve the problem, what's the best way to solve it, conducting user research, and from the blog and creating that like Instagram essentially, plus blog, that was kind of a bit of marketing skills. So, at that point when I started, it wasn't as if I was starting from scratch. Like, I was very lucky to have not only that experience behind me, but also a network of people who were specialists in their own right. So, you know, heads of product, other kind of more senior advisors who had built and sold businesses for millions. Like, I was very lucky when I started, I had those people to call on. And so essentially, just before starting The Gut Feeling, well, a few years before, I'd become obsessed with gut health. I went to a talk by The Gut Health Doctor, and that was, I think, a festival, a health and wellness festival in Ireland, and thought, you know, this is, this is amazing. Like, gut health is so exciting. 70% of our immune system is in our gut. Like, our brain and our gut are connected. Like, surely is this not going to take over the world? So I was super inspired by it. And so this kind of nerdy little hobby that I had, like, was reading up on on the side, then suddenly more and more people started talking about it and I thought, okay, right, 1 in 2 people are struggling here. Let's, let's see what we can do. And so I was thinking about the different ways that I could solve this problem and inspire people about gut health. And at that point, it wasn't about specific gut issues. It was more just generally helping people improve their gut health. Myself and actually the founder, Jewel Pool, sat down and we went through all these different ideas that I had and what we could do. One of them was creating an alcoholic kombucha. One was putting this together, this subscription box, and the subscription box is the one that I stuck with. I was very Lean Startup. My favorite book and Bible, and I still reread it to this day, and I think I first read it probably 10 years ago, is The Lean Startup. It's all about putting something out there in the market, seeing if you get traction, and learning, listening, and iterating. And not being afraid to like kill something if it isn't working. So I strung up like a Squarespace website called The Gut Feeling, put these subscription boxes on there. I already had like a few hundred followers on Instagram, and I put it up there and people started buying it. And I was like, oh my God, it's happening. Like, people actually want to buy this. And I was like, I have no idea how to fulfill any of this product. So I had to like call up loads of different suppliers. So I remember Ombar— shout out to Ombar chocolate company— and I was like, I love your chocolate. I know you've got probiotics in your chocolate. I'm starting this business. Do you think you could send me like maybe like 30 bars? And they did it. I was so surprised. And then like ordering bits, but then getting other suppliers who wanted exposure and wanted to be linked to gut health and essentially continued to fulfill these boxes for a year. COVID happened about 3 months after I started the business, so everyone was very excited to get stuff delivered to their house. And yeah, it was, it was a lot. But yeah, it was It was a great little business, that product, and, um, yeah, got lots of lovely feedback and reviews.

There might be some people listening to this right now who are going through a problem that potentially they're thinking, oh, lightbulb moment, I could start a business. And do you think— I mean, you had had that experience in a startup before you did this, and you, in some ways, as you just told that story, you still weren't prepared or ready for what was going to happen. Do you think this is something that you could have started when you were younger at university, or do you think, like, it was really formative to have those years of experience beforehand?

Yeah, um, difficult to say. I think the experience I had definitely helped me start my business, but then, then, like, the experience I have now after having run this business for 3 years are helping me run it in a much better way. So, like, I don't think there's necessarily, like, a bad time to start, um, and I think even at university when you have like the time, um, it's always worth— if, you know, if you're inquisitive and you think you've got a potential problem, it's always worth starting, right? Because when you start, you start learning and you start testing, you start speaking to people and you start developing these skills. So I don't think starting a business at university is a bad idea, but I do think that everybody thinking that starting a business is a, is a good idea, it's not a good idea, if that makes sense. So not everybody should start a business. It's not for everyone. You make so many sacrifices, whether it's financial, whether it's time, um, sacrifices on your mental health. Like, it's a lot, and it's a big thing to take, um, big thing to take on, and it's not for everyone. But for the people that are interested and inquisitive, like, I would always encourage people to, you know, itch that scratch and try and start something. Because even if it doesn't work out and it's not a successful business, you've learned a lot, and also you've got a great story to tell in whatever interview you go for.

You mentioned that you were in the Bristol Entrepreneurship Society.

Yeah.

Although that was great for your CV, I wonder, was there anything you had to kind of unlearn that you were told as a student, what, in your time in business now, like that, you know, maybe it was just like a myth or something that might have prevented students? Because you see, I think, a lot of ideas that get lost in the validation ideation stage without them ever really being trialled. I was wondering if there's just any other learnings that you made.

Yeah, good question. I think I remember doing a business module, I think as part of my final year, and it was actually hilarious. We had a lecturer basically just reading a book and reciting it to us, and it was a book on how to do marketing. And there were probably a couple of things in there that needed to unlearn, but I can't think of anything specific. Um, nobody ever said like, don't do this, it's a bad idea. Um, I think I was lucky with the people that I was meeting and the businesses I was meeting through Entrepreneurial Society, and, um, that, yeah, it was always kind of an encouraging environment as opposed to you can't do this. But I think in almost some way I was pretty lucky not to have had like a formal degree in like how to create a business. I think it was good for me to go and make those mistakes and kind of just try and work out what worked and what didn't, rather than like following like a step-by-step of how to do it. And of course, there are things you need to bear in mind and things that I think collectively, you know, thinking about things like market size are like important. You can't just disregard that and be like, I'm going to build for these 2 people. That's not going to work. Um, but I think, yeah, a lot of self-learning, which requires a lot of self-drive, is really important part of the process.

Yeah. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the mistakes you made? Because you mentioned earlier that you had some other businesses right before you started The Gut Feeling that didn't end up working, even though you almost got some investment. So maybe you can just share like the common mistakes that you made with the other businesses and in your early journey at The Gut Feeling. And if you, you know, put yourself in the shoes of like a student starting a business, what would be some things that you'd be avoiding?

Yeah, um, good questions. Going back a while, so let me pick my own brains. Um, so I think probably worth talking about the things I tried to start, two things mainly, and then also the various different products we've had within The Gut Feeling and perhaps like why we pivoted, um, and what we learned from it. So in terms of the two businesses, so there were two things I was trying to do. One was, um, about what was this, like 5? No, more than 5, between 10 and 5 years ago, there was like a big hype around superfoods and everyone was really excited about them. We now know that like there aren't really superfoods. It's basically just eat as many different plants as you can a week. That's probably one of the best things you can do for your health and specifically your gut health. But at the time there was lots of excitement around this and superfoods essentially came, a lot of the superfoods came from South America. And I, yeah, just started my blog before I went traveling around South America. And so I was trying to work out how I could basically start a superfood brand and import these superfoods from, I think it was Bolivia. I think it was a range of countries from memory. And quite proud of like, like still see young Lucy who called up basically the competitor, the potential competitor for this business and said that I was writing a blog and then got them to like talk about how they did the whole process. So I learned a lot through that, which was great. But ultimately, I think I decided not to pursue that because it was really difficult with like import and export, and it was just like not a simple business. Um, and yeah, it could have been something perhaps I could have done with a lot of money and some expertise behind me, but not something that I could have just like done off the cuff. Um, the second business was at the end of my trip around South America. I was in a coffee plantation for 2 weeks— 2 weeks, 2 months— um, when I'd essentially run out of money but still wanted to speak Spanish and have a good time, didn't want to go home. I was having fantastic time in Colombia, and decided that I was going to try and start a business. So, this is just when I'd read The Lean Startup, and I knew that everyone was really excited about getting these alpaca jumpers. I think they're still a thing, you know, like you go traveling and you wear this alpaca jumper and everyone thinks you're a legend. And I thought, well, how can you give that, you know, legendary feeling to someone who hasn't been traveling, right? And so, throughout this process, I think I was pitching for a grant through Bristol Uni, and I did a bit of research and then basically found out the grant deadline was like the same day, managed to get an extension, wrote it really, really quickly in 24 hours, got a couple of other people to read it, and then I think I got to the next stage, but basically discovered that all of those alpaca jumpers were actually all made in China and then imported to South America, which was hilarious. You're just gonna have to pause the recording while I blow my nose. Sos. Cold season. Um, so that kind of like killed the authentic dream. Um, and I think I got around to the— I think I got to like the finalist, which was hilarious. Like, I don't know why anyone would fund that business. Um, and then had to do like a pitch and we had to record on a boat in the middle of Colombia. It was all very ridiculous. Um, but yeah, I got through to the final and I think that it just came back as like 'This probably isn't something we're going to fund.' And I was like, 'Yeah, I kind of get it.' But it was worth a punt. And you know, the application got me thinking about, you know, the size of the market, the logistics, how I would spend the money, like what that would look like, what's the 2 to 3-year plan. Like, the whole process was a good learning experience. So, I'd recommend if there are any grants that you can go for at uni, like, just see what the application looks like. I think it gets you thinking about the business idea, not just, you know, 'I want to build this thing.' What's the specific problem you're trying to solve? Why do you think this is the best way to solve it? How does your business look like? What does your business look like compared to competition? Like, what's your USP? It just gets you thinking. And I think that's really important. And then the last thing with the subscription box, with the Gut Feeling. So we're a lot more clear on what we're trying to achieve. So the Gut Feeling as a whole, we are helping people improve their health via their gut and we're starting with gut issues. So it's people who recognize I have gut issues today and I want to, I want to help them. So I'm suffering with frequent bloating, constipation, diarrhea, reflux. Brain fog, heartburn, like I recognize I have an issue. And that's why we have a, like a, an app. And yeah, it's all about helping people bring in those experts and trying to make it accessible so both you can use it from home and it's more affordable than spending £400 seeing a gastroenterologist, for example. The thing that we learned there is that gut issues are really complex and they're really personalized. And I'm sure both of you guys found this, like one thing would work for one of you and one thing wouldn't work for the other. And the problem we have with the subscription box is because we were a physical product, but we weren't like— we were making, I don't know, like 10K a year or something. We didn't have the scale to go and personalize each of these boxes. And the problem we came into is like, you know, someone would say, oh, I've had a product with quinoa in 2 weeks, 2 months in a row, and I don't like quinoa. So I'm going to unsubscribe because this isn't really working for me. And so it's quite difficult to personalize those boxes. And my background was like technology and product, and it just made sense to focus on that, not because it was just my background, but also it was a great way to personalize a solution at scale, much more easier than it would be to personalize like physical products. Um, and yeah, I think in thinking about like, at that point I'd got to thinking about, okay, what's the kind of 3 to 5 year plan of this business? And it just made sense to go down this route. And yeah, maybe we'll have physical products in the future, but right now digital makes sense.

I think it's interesting, um, where like even when you said you started selling them to your few hundred followers on Instagram and the take-up was massive, that's normally like the problem that most companies struggle with. But maybe the problem you were struggling with was you wanted to deliver a really good solution and make sure it was consistent and everyone enjoyed it as much as possible. But because it was such an underground problem that even you in the space didn't know just how many people suffered with it. It's like, I think that's like a learning, or, you know, maybe understanding the market that you couldn't even read about. And it might even be some advice to people to, yeah, be a bit more innovative, or, or just get out there and, and test it more, just hands-on than, than what she tell you.

Yeah, I think testing hands-on is always a good idea. Like, you know, if you're like— I think whatever you're trying to do, building a platform will always help. So whether it's you know that you want to do something in the health space and you start creating a health platform, like TikTok's probably your best way to go. Like, if you're, um, you know, you want to start a business, starting to build up a bit of a platform on LinkedIn always are going to be helpful things. And then when you want to test an idea, you can put it out there to your audience. And like, you can grow on TikTok really quickly. Like, within 6 months, I think we had like 10,000 followers, and it took us like probably like 5 years to get to like 5,000 followers on Instagram. It's such a great tool. So yeah, I definitely recommend doing that. And you're right, I think we were— our mission was so broad at the start, and now we're much more specific, and now our product is a much more kind of specific fit for those people, as opposed to like trying to solve everyone's problems.

I have a question about sort of the advisors that you had in starting like the gut health. So, um, I had a look on your website, and like you have lots of like health experts that kind of pitch in to help you in that. So I'm just curious, like, about mentorship throughout your, you know, student life, but also in the years, like the crucial years following up your graduation, which relationships you think were important to build with certain mentors that then help you build, like, the gut feeling? And how did you nurture them to then kind of onboard them into your startup? Like, also the co-founder of Jewel, like, how did you build that relationship to basically get him build another business with you or think about some ideas?

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, happy to talk about like how I found those mentors and how they've been helpful, um, just to break that down. So I think I, I wasn't building this network intentionally of starting a business. Um, I'm, I'm the kind of person that loves to meet people and I love to build connections and that's been a very lovely thing to have in my life. And also, you know, it's just amazing to be surrounded with a network of people who want to help each other. You know, me, I'm helping out other startups in WeWork and vice versa, and it's really lovely. I think, um, so the first two businesses I worked for, I like was working for— I think Joule maybe was like a 5-person business, it's probably like a 50-person business now. Um, and then the consultancy that went to work on after was like 50 to 100 person business, and I was really thirsty for knowledge. And I think that that was great, like, it meant that I excelled pretty quickly. I was keen to do stuff, I didn't mind working hard, and as long as I was learning, I didn't really mind. And so, yeah, I think that probably, like, thirst for knowledge and wanting to learn as much as possible and do a great job, um, probably earned a pretty decent reputation. And then, um, ended up getting connected to XYZ person, um, and that was really helpful. For example, in the second consultancy job I had, I kind of put myself up for doing some kind of the sales stuff, and I think I was at an Eventbrite meeting once, and then brought a kind of client to the company, and that was great, really kind of not expected at that level, and then that caught the attention of the CSO, who's one of the founders, and yeah, it all kind of happened very organically. It wasn't as if I set out to build an advisory board at the age of 20. I think it's just like, people that I'd really connected with over the years and who I'd really respected and learned from. And yeah, it was a real range of, um, people and skills, and I'm just so grateful to those people who have allowed me to pick their brains over the last few years. And of course, like, I'm happy to help, like, reciprocate as much as possible, but realistically, a lot of these people have got, like, decades of experience on me, and it's a sense of, like, I want to be able to give that back in the future to other entrepreneurs that perhaps that I can help in the future.

Um, yeah, I think having those mentors would have provided a nice bit of protection or maybe a comfort blanket. So when you did start, you know, you weren't just doing it completely by yourself. However, you know, not only are you a woman entrepreneur, which, you know, famously is, is pretty hard world to be in when it's raising investment, but, but also you're not someone from a biology or medical background trying to do something within that space. So How have you sort of overcome those difficulties and maybe even leverage the fact that this was a problem that you went through as your superpower?

Yeah. So I think my experience of living with this issue is so key to telling our story and also to building a product that people want to use. And that's kind of where I come in. I'm also a registered nutritional therapist, which is great because it gives me some qualifications and I'm able to talk on BBC Radio, for example, and in The Guardian. The kind of gaps that I— well, not really gaps I wanted to fill, but the gut feeling from the offset, I was very clear that it had to be a business that was based in science and based in evidence. I, as somebody who really struggled with gut issues, and I'm sure knowing that both of you two struggle too, you know, you end up trying the most ridiculously incredible, incredible, not functioning things ever. And whether it's a supplement or a hair intolerance test, whatever it is, don't do hair intolerance tests. There's no clinical proof behind them. You end up trying stuff that doesn't work. And I really didn't want the gut feeling to be that, like from the offset I was working with dietitians and like friends of friends who are happy to like pitch in and help a bit. And then obviously got to a point where we raised some money and I was able to pay people, which was obviously lovely, and they could bring in that kind of expertise. So when I say our programs are developed by experts, like we've worked with dietitians to develop these programs, gastroenterologists are a part of them. And that was really important to me when building this business. Like I didn't want to add to the noise and fluff out there that I'd experienced as somebody struggling with gut issues. Like, I want to develop something that was very much based in science, that relied on the evidence that proved that the tools that we're using actually work and didn't want to build another kind of like fluffy 'does it work' product.

Can you talk a bit more about your product without— I know if you want to reveal that much, but just— Yeah, I know it's very individualized to each one, but maybe you have some success stories of people. That, that used it and kind of what specific steps it takes people through that, that help them?

Yeah, yeah, sure. Happy to. I love talking about product. Um, so I can tell you how it works and then I'll tell you a bit more about the kind of feedback that we've had because it's been really lovely and I'd love to share it. So you can download the Gut Feeling app on Android or on iPhone, and the way that it works is we ask you a few questions. It's literally 3 questions just to understand a bit more about what you're struggling with. So that we can kind of steer you towards the right program and so we can set you up for tracking your symptoms. So once you have answered those questions, then we steer you towards a behavioral change program. So at the moment we have two programs. One is predominantly food-focused and one is predominantly mood-focused. So the food-focused one is for people that think or suspect that they, that it's actually like a food potential intolerance or food is causing the issue. And then the mood program is more for people that recognize that actually every time I'm stressed or anxious, I'm having like loose stools or bloating or whatever it may be. And then when you're on those programs, so they're between 3 and 6 weeks, you're guided by these experts. So let's say a typical day, it's probably 10 minutes. It might be a dietitian explaining the 4 different types of bloating and how to prevent them. And then you might have a 10-minute yoga session after that, which is yoga for bloating. So like, I know when I say yoga, like a lot of people kind of look at me like, isn't that a bit left field? You know, is that proven? But actually there are clinical trials out there that that yoga can reduce the symptoms of IBS. So bloating, constipation, those kind of things. And we also encourage people to track their symptoms because we want people to know that, like, to see and reap the benefits of the improvements of using the app. So showing them, you know, oh, I've been doing this and actually I've been feeling better. And also for like self-awareness as well as tracking their triggers. So we encourage people to track their sleep and their stress, amongst other different triggers. And then they also have access to this toolkit. So, like I said, additional yoga, or like, um, the meditation is really popular on the app, or the recipes as well. So that's the kind of like what we offer, um, today. But there are a lot of exciting things in the pipeline. Um, in terms of like the feedback we've had, um, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but when you go out and you set out to build something in a certain way, So we set out to build the Gut Feeling for it to feel really trusted, but not to feel clinical or intimidating. And it is just the most amazing feeling when you get off these user feedback calls and somebody describes the app in exactly that way without them having the context of what you wanted to achieve. It's just so wonderful. So we've had some great feedback in terms of people saying that it's reduced their symptoms. So we did a small study at the start of launching this app, which is that 71% of people reported that their symptoms reduced within 3 weeks of of using it, which is great, especially considered like the gold standard for gut issues is this thing called the low FODMAP diet, which essentially where you cut out lots of food and that only works for up to 50% of people. So I'm really, really proud of those early stats. Still a long way to go. And then the other kind of feedback we get is that I don't know what you guys try for your gut issues, but sometimes like when you try something, it can feel really overwhelming and you're really worried you're going to lose like your social life or just like your life in general for a bit because you're going to try XYZ diet. And the thing that we get fed back a lot is that actually this is so doable. This is 10 minutes a day and I feel like I'm working towards it and I'm improving and it feels good and I'm making small steps, but I'm making steps towards the goal. We have a couple of, like, mums on there that are like, this is amazing, I can actually do this whilst looking after my children. This is great. We've also had quite a few uni students using the app as well and people who have just left university. Of thought, right, this has gone on long enough. And I was just talking to an amazing guy a few months ago, and he was just like, this yoga for my gut has just completely changed my life, and very, very grateful. And yeah, we've had all kinds of bits of feedback. It's just been like a wonderful thing. One last actually thing that I'll mention is a lovely girl who's just going on her year— like, no, going to do a gap year after uni, and she was saying like, I've waited like 5 years for something like this. Like, I scroll through Google, I never know whether it's credible, I don't know if it's going to work for me. And she was like, finally, it's all in one place and it's literally like a tenner a month.

I remember my, my first call to the NHS because I didn't know who else to contact, um, and it was like in the early days where it probably could have been very preventable, any actual problems, where it was like just a little bit of discomfort. And it was just like, yeah, get some Gaviscon. Just get some Gaviscon. I was like, okay, um, I'll do that, I guess. And, and then I was almost like scared to even ask anyone about it again, um, when it did continue to get worse, because I was like, uh, this doesn't feel normal what's happened to me. Like, this isn't like what they say on the Gaviscon packaging what it's for or anything. So I think it's great what you're doing, and I want to— probably similar to myself where I've kind of accidentally fell into this career space, um, and I thought it was a problem before, but I didn't realize the extent of how big this problem with careers is. And just like, you know, how important it is for everyone's lives, be it the mental health aspect or, you know, the fulfillment thing being missing and all the financial problems that might come from that. It's just a big problem. But equally, gut health is a massive problem, and there must be quite a lot of temptation for you to try and solve every problem within it. When you see it. But there are other companies doing very credible things within the gut health space, and I just wonder how you are sort of sticking in your own lane and know what you're good at.

Yeah. And also, so sorry that was your experience with doctors. It's super common with gut issues, and I think they kind of like— hopefully you can go to your doctor, you know, if you're struggling with frequent issues, you go to a doctor and you rule things out like the IBD and celiac disease I mentioned. But Often once you get those things ruled out, unless the doctor has like a specialism or like a special interest, then often you don't necessarily get the kind of support and advice you need. And it can be really frustrating. And that's why The Gut Feeling exists right now, is we're bridging that gap between having, you know, evidence-based advice and not being, yeah, fluffy Dr. Google. And in terms of like, yeah, how do we stay focused? So I think that was probably the mistake that we made early off, and I'm I'm not sure if it was a mistake. I think it was more like we were exploring the different ways that the business could move into and understanding more about the market and understanding more about the market through doing, um, which was actually very beneficial. I think at the moment we know, um, that we do one thing well, but we do one thing, and that is the app and the offering, and it's focusing on helping people improve their gut health, but specifically gut issues. I think You know, we— the next kind of step for us would be, okay, so we've got this app and it's doing really well. How can we help people with mental health via their gut? How could we help people reduce the impact of Parkinson's or autism on their lives? And these are all things that are very well documented in clinical science. There are very clear links between the gut microbiome and those things I mentioned. So I think that's the kind of future for us. But at the moment, we, we stay focused on what we're doing. There are so many different ideas I have for this app, but it's a case of like, what can— what do we need to do first and what's most important to our users? Um, and kind of going from there. Like, we can't do everything, and I've made the mistake before of trying to do everything, and ultimately it just ends up in burnout and it's not a very good way to run a business. So yeah, staying focused and, um, yeah, not trying to do everything, but I think at the start really exploring your different options and not just kind of settling for the first thing is always a good idea.

And my, uh, my final question to you today, and, and I ask all my guests the same question, um, when you were at Bristol or maybe traveling around Colombia, you would have had a certain idea of what success would have looked like to you in a career sense. And, you know, a few years on, you know, your own company and everything else you've done, what is your definition of success?

Yeah, such a good question. And I think For me, it's forever changing. I think when you're at school, you know, you're taught you need to get a good— get good grades, get to good university, get a good job, get enough money, settle down, have a family. And I think that really does change. I think like starting there to where I am now, I think success for me is helping people with gut issues and it's being able to like grow a profitable business and at one point, hopefully sell for lots of money. That's like the plan. I think it's like twofold. Like, I think probably in the past it's been, okay, I just want to help people with gut issues feel better. But ultimately, like, this isn't a charity. It needs to make money. And although, like, money isn't my only driver, it's just, you know, key. Like, I can't pay my mortgage without money. Like, it doesn't get paid in, like, gut advice. So yeah, I think it's forever changing. Ask me in 2 years and it'll probably have changed again. But I'd say that's where it is now.

This would be great. Thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

Thank you. Awesome. I'll stop that there.