Simmy Dhillon, Founder @ Simmer

Sui, welcome to the podcast. If you could just start off by telling us a little bit about your career so far.

Cool, um, so I started Simmer, which is a healthy meal delivery service, in my first year of uni. Um, I actually dropped out of uni before, I was at Warwick studying maths, dropped out, went to Bristol where I was studying economics, that's where I started the business. Um, alongside university and running the business, I did some internships. I worked in banking at Rothschild, I worked at Google and then also did a full-time job there as well, and just building business alongside this. The business was going really well, so I quit my job at Google and I've been working on it full-time since 2021, so over 2 years now.

And so your company now is Siva. You could just explain exactly what your company does.

Siva is a healthy mood delivery service, so we have a team of chefs, Michelin-trained chefs, who prepare fresh, quality, flavoursome, healthy dishes, high protein, portion-controlled, nutrient-dense. And we cook them by hand in Hitchin, so handmade in Hitchin, which is where we grew up. And then we deliver them across the country. And the idea is you get a package of heat-and-eat meals, so your fridge is stocked up at the beginning of the week, and it means that you don't have to worry about going to the shops, about where you're getting your next meal from. Whether it's going to be healthy or not, whether it's going to taste good. And it's just very convenient, like you can put it in the microwave for 3 minutes, or if you want to put it in the oven, you can put it in the oven for 20 minutes. But it just removes the hassle from food.

Yeah, and what is it you think makes Simmer so special then? Because from the outside looking in, I think one thing you're very good at is your storytelling on social media. Like, it's very engaging, very captivating, and obviously the food's got— the product's got to be good for people to want to buy it. Um, which one do you think— I mean, or what do you think makes it so special then compared to the competitors?

Um, well, product firstly, flavor. Um, we're much bigger on flavor, and that's obviously like part of the founding story as well, whereas a lot more of like the competitors would be more like functional. Um, like their selling point is the health side of things only and, and like convenience. Um, and I feel like it lacks flavor and like kind of, um, it's more like meal prep or ready meals, whereas we try not to 'Cool, sip of that,' and it's more like kind of like handmade, it's made with love, it's from a family-run business, it's with like Michelin-trained chefs. And at the end of the day, like, we are people who want our food to be flavoursome, we are the target customer as well. So yeah, it's about making a product that we really enjoy, so I think that comes through the product side of things, and that's why people who are really taste-conscious use our product. And yeah, in terms of the brand, I think it's just like a very, very strong brand, and I always say that we Try to see ourselves as creators, not a brand, and constantly trying to bang that into Jimmy that we always like, we want like to not, things not being like the standard like of the industry and most brands is here, we're here, but actually we need to be up here with where other creators are. So always just kind of like demanding more from ourselves and really trying to push and push and push and not kind of settling for just like Good.

Yeah, one thing that'll be particularly interesting to, for myself and the audience of this podcast, is as a young student at university, you know, you obviously have your degree to do and look at traditional career paths and corporate routes, but you start this company while you're at university. How did you actually get that going? Like, because I know you basically just started giving your, in halls, giving your food to your mates and they liked it, but then what's like the next steps after that?

So yeah, I started that, and after literally like a couple of weeks, um, I was like, so I called my brother and I was like, oh, you should start this back in Hitchin, um, with Mum and, uh, serving like non-students, actual like, um, working people. And surely it should be easier because actually they've got more, they've got more disposable income. Um, and he initially was like, nah, I don't really want to do that. And I was just like, hey, I'm going to do it. So I started remotely, um, the Hitchin branch, and knowing that I'd get the orders, call them through to Mum, she'd cook them and take them out. And then obviously Jay was going to help out, and he did, and he's become a lot more involved in business now as well. Very much is like co-founder now. But when we started serving it to just normal working people, that's it, that was the next thing. So it was very early on, we just said straight away, let's do that. And then when I finished— so we only started business in January of first year, so did it pretty much from January through to like May, June, and then summer holidays, I just literally just worked in the business over summer. So made my own kind of internship, working in business, serving non-students, and then slowly kind of scaled up from there.

Yeah, and you touched on it, but it's a family-run business, and I mean, me personally, I would not start a company with my brother, but obviously your dynamic is very special and You two, what— first I want to know what makes you two so special and your mum as well. And then also, at one point it gets too big an operation for just the three of you. How do you then start delegating responsibility when, you know, it's always just been you three?

Yeah, so first question is what makes us so special. I don't know, it's just like, it just works. I'm the youngest in like, obviously, Mum, Dad, Jay and me, I'm the youngest, but in a weird way, I'm the kind of one in charge in a way, and I think it just kind of works where they're not like, "Oh, can't be dragged because he's younger," so they're just very like kind of, it just makes sense and we just like work very well as like a family unit. I think that initially I kind of just dragged them along, I was like, "We're gonna do this," and they're like, "Sure, why not?" And then over time they've kind of really become like, I think you get that kind of like bug when you're working on something like that, and I think they just naturally got that over time and now they really like enjoy it and It's crazy to think how actually entrepreneurial— like, Mom isn't as involved anymore. We kind of just like, you don't need to work anymore. She's like, I want to do bits here and there. But it's funny to think, like, she never been to university, doesn't have A-levels, just worked in supermarket for the previous kind of 20 years plus before working on Simulacross. And, um, but how actually entrepreneurial she is. Oh, we should do this, we should do that. And most of it's quite like innocent, it's quite like funny. Um, but actually, I was like, she's actually got some good ideas, which is quite nice as well. So I think she really enjoys that side of things. But it's just a nice dynamic, I think. We are very close. I think we're just like kind of normal people and it's quite relatable, and it is very much this kind of like underdog story where whilst we are normal people, I think people— what people like is that it's relatable, but also actually like people like people who are good at things and they're trying to push themselves, but they don't have any like kind of real kind of like advantage or talent. And I think like, oh, what we've done like I bump into people all the time like, "Oh, I love the stuff that you post online or LinkedIn, it's really inspiring," and that's really nice. And I think it's just because they feel like they want to do that one day, that they feel like they can do that if I've done it, which is nice. Yeah, I think it's just a nice underdog story.

Yeah, and then from there, like, growing out, how did that process work out?

So in terms of when I went back to my second year of uni, it was just still us three, I was back in Bristol doing it remotely. And it wasn't a business really, it was a job with a bit more autonomy. And I was still just trying to do it myself. I was like, we don't have money to hire anyone anyway, so we can't really be hiring anyone. But I kind of just get so like burnt out because just doing Drag Queen Uni alongside this. I think at the point where I was just like, ah, one of these kind of has to give. And you have like, it's been a great run, great experience with this business, stop it there now, like I said, I've built a business and it's been fun, and just focus on getting through uni, internships, crack on. Or I can take a year away from uni and drop out again, work and focus on making the business self-sufficient. So I did this weird kind of loophole thing where my university didn't offer placement year, my degree, um, and also I was due to take my January exams, whereas if I self-certified for my exams, if I'd taken them and hadn't done well, let's say I got a 40, 50, or whatever I got, right, um, I couldn't then retake them and my grade would be capped at that level, um, so what I realized, if I could self-certify them I would then carry on with second term and make sure I just focus on— not just focus, but focus more on uni, um, do well in second term. And then when they give me my resits in January, saying here are these exams, self-certify again, I would force like a supplementary year, which is typically where you fail. But my exams that they gave me, because I hadn't actually taken them, they'd be like uncapped, so they'd be like first attempts. Um, so that's what I did, and then like kind of force that year. So I knew that during that year I was still gonna have to do half a second year I was doing an internship in banking and wanted to work on this business, so it was a really crazy year. I think in that 15 months, I did an internship in banking, internship with Google, I traveled, ran the business remotely, we went from selling a few hundred meals a week to a thousand meals a week, and yeah, really like built like a proper— to be honest, I don't even feel like it's a proper business now, but yeah, had built something that's more of a proper business where we had people working in the team, I could run it from anywhere in the world, we were making good money. So that's kind of how we got there in terms of who we hired. Initially it was just contractors in the kitchen, that was a priority first, because I was like, I don't want to be stuck in that kitchen. And then towards the end of that year, we got who is now our CTO, a developer in part-time as well. So yeah, we eventually started bringing people on board where we saw that there was a need to do so, but for as much as possible, I've tried to be very like self-sufficient and resourceful and just learn to do most of the things myself.

Yeah, it's interesting that amongst all this business, Charlie, you were still delving into the corporate career. How do you reflect on that whole experience? Do you think that it like reinforced in your mind that I need to be doing things for myself, like running a business myself, or have you just taken learnings from it and, you know, you might go back into it, who knows?

I definitely won't go back.

Yeah, okay.

Um, I think I've definitely taken learnings from it, um, 100%. I think, yeah, I think it's just a mindset thing as well. Like, if I'm going to do anything, even if, like, I don't know, um, yeah, like, whatever, whatever you do, I think you have to, like, if you're in that situation for whatever period of time it is, you have to take all the learnings you can from it. And you can't be in it thinking, "Oh, I don't want to be here." Like, you've got to think, "Oh, but I'm here for a certain amount of time until I've got my next thing. I need to, like, learn and take as much as I can from this situation." So definitely, there's so many things that I'm really glad I had those experiences, 100%. Whilst I wouldn't go back to any corporate jobs, like, even before this, we went to the BBC and I saw the building, I was just like, "Oh, I'd hate to work in a corporate environment." Even, like, here, when you go up the lift, I was just like, "Oh, I can't believe people work like this." And obviously most people work like this, and it is a thing, but it's just like, once you've kind of tasted the good life of your autonomy. And often I just work from my flat, and I'm like, we do have an office, but sometimes I was like, Jimmy, let's work from my flat because it's two of us. It's just, it's more comfortable. It's just, um, it doesn't feel like work.

Um, and was that entrepreneurial desire there before you started cooking the meals at university?

Yeah, I definitely said I wanted to start my own business. I just didn't think it was possible so soon. I thought you had to go through the corporate path, and most of the time you do because very few people start a business at university that takes off and they just don't have to work for a corporate ever again. So yeah, I guess people talk a lot about luck and timing and stuff like that, and 100%, I think most people, even if they think they're unlucky, everyone has luck at some point in their life. There are opportunities that present themselves that are lucky, but most people just don't take them because they think, ah, not now, like, now's not the right time, um, or it's a risk or whatever. And I just thought, I've always tried to, to, to knock on doors and, and, and take opportunities and be proactive. Um, so yeah, I always wanted to start my business. I was just fortunate I could do it so early and it's worked out.

Yeah, I guess a big lesson there is like just listening to yourself and maybe try not just to follow other people at university because Obviously I went to UCL, you went to Bristol, and a lot, I mean a lot of the people who go there, they just, they go into consulting or banking or law because they think it's what they're meant to do, and they only then find out what they really like once they're in the job. Is there any kind of things that you wish at university you were like hearing more of, learning more about the careers, and you know, preparing yourself for what has happened now?

Me personally, no. If I was to advise someone who is at university, I think like, the thing is even, I was speaking about this morning, it was like, what's one piece of advice that you'd give, or like when times get tough in business, but I was just like, if it was easy, everyone would do it. And if there was some program at university like, hey, everyone should be an entrepreneur, like, not everyone should be an entrepreneur. Like, it's not for everyone. But if you are entrepreneurial and you want to do it, then that's the whole point about being an entrepreneur. Often the resources aren't put on the table, like, or put on a plate for you, and you have to go out and think about how you may get the information that you need, how you might get the knowledge. But there's so many books on it, so many podcasts like this, do you know what I mean? So many resources online, watching YouTube, just starting by doing. It is always nice to be learning, but I think, yeah, that probably needs to be a greater focus on execution than learning, because most students are just— all they're doing is theory and learning.

Earlier on we spoke about the branding of your company and how it's very special and it stands out. You yourself also, you're very good at your personal branding, you know, whether it's LinkedIn or Instagram. And you know, it's interesting how business has changed from, you know, back in the day it wasn't really like LinkedIn wasn't as prominent and TikTok and Instagram and now you kind of have to be the face of the brand. Like, when they think of Simmer, they think of you or your brother or your mum. How did you first start going about building your personal brand for younger people?

So we built the business to over a million in revenue, um, in annual recurring revenue, with no paid marketing at all, um, slowly over time. And the way that we did that was organic social media. Now, I personally wasn't associated— like, you get a lot of people influencer first and they go into their business, and then obviously their business just flies because they're an influencer, if they're a good influencer who has actual trust with their audience. I wasn't that at all, um, but I was like, hey, I'm going to make this brand good by using social media because it's free. The cost is time. Um, so what we did, we were just really scrappy with social media and trying to do everything we can. And I was testing lots of different things. Um, I did like a little similar to this, not a podcast obviously then because not that many people had podcasts at that time, equipment was less accessible. Um, but I started a blog and I would interview interesting different people like in a similar way to this. Um, lots of things I tried, um, but the thing that kept on working was when we told the business story. Maybe because I'm more passionate about it, people liked it. It's like, this is the content that we do really well, this is content that gets us most reach, just carry on doing it. Um, so basically like just test lots of things, it worked, kept on doing it. And I think it worked because I enjoyed doing it. I enjoyed talking about entrepreneurship, um, I enjoy talking about Simart and the business journey. Whilst yes, we are a food business and I love eating, I love food, and I'm really passionate about the product, the thing I love most is actually the business story, the journey, the what we do day to day, the growing of the startup. And I think that's what, like, you look at our content, the worst performing content is the food content, the best performing content is the story. But people buy from people, and also like most people when they're marketing products, just ramming the product down your throat, so boring. I mean, you see it as an ad, you swipe away from it. Yeah, we try and storytell as much as we can.

Yeah, I think also another thing is that you're very authentic with the way, you know, you tell your story. You're not trying to be anyone else or say what you think people want to hear. I think, like, you know, AI and ChatGPT writing people's LinkedIn posts for them, like, you can tell that, you know, what you put out there is yours. What do you think the future? Like, why do you think it's so authentic? It's so important to be authentic in your business, in everything you do?

Yeah. Oh, for me, like I said, like, why would everyone own a corporate? Because I think you have to be someone else. You have to dress a certain way, you have to do certain things, you have to like speak to people in a certain way. And for me, I'm just like, I'm, like I said, um, great that I can just work from my flat. I just wear whatever I want. I could wear shorts, I can wear sliders, whatever I want to do, right? It's just, it's just comfortable, and it's just like, I'm operating rationally how I naturally want to operate in order to maximize the objective or the outcome I want, which is the business to grow, which is enjoyment from work. So I'm just naturally doing what I want to do, really, which is— I'm very fortunate that I'm in a position where I can do that and people see it as authentic and, and, um, they buy into it. And I think it's because probably I'm just naturally someone who is motivated and wants to do things and wants to learn, and I think those are traits that people respect and buy into, and they're like, oh, that— those are good traits for an entrepreneur. I like— if obviously I'm authentic, I'm open, but if you were authentic and you're open and your traits were different, people might be like, that's a bit off-putting. I'm fortunate that the traits I'm authentic and open about are also traits that people respect and buy into and trust.

Um, yeah, yeah, I think I mean, I'm sure you'll agree with this, but one of the best things about starting something so young, like when you did it, is, you know, people talk about imposter syndrome and everything like that, but as a student you're allowed to have a level of naivety, like you're not expected to know all the answers, and you can kind of go into business or a podcast or any conversation, you know, holding your hands up saying, this isn't the best product, but I'm here to learn. And it's quite infectious, and I think people enjoy it. What other benefits do you think starting a business young is, or just doing things young?

Yeah, just, um, Obviously, it's just that, and I was again speaking about this so recently as well, um, when we spoke about, uh, I was speaking about mindset earlier and about how like being like confident or having a lot of self-belief and all this kind of stuff, and, and someone asked, oh, is that something that you've developed over time? And I was just like, being honest, no, I think I've had that from a young age. And that's obviously fortunate because obviously what people want to hear is that, oh, I've I wasn't very confident and I hit a certain age and it just happens. And like, it can happen. You can develop like confidence and change your mindset over time. But I think it's really important that from a young age, like people say the best time to plant a seed was 20 years ago, the second best time is today. And it's just like, you've just got to start where you are and just like have a shift. And again, sometimes I see that in people and like friends when I'm, or like if I'm trying to help someone And I'm just like, really? I think if you're going on a certain path and you're like, you're way below where you want to get to, and you're just like, where you want to get to is here, and you're just like here, you're never going to get there. And like, what you need is it like, you need a shock, you need to literally like change quickly, and like there needs to be a bit of an abruptness because I think inflection points are really like important, meaningful. And it's not like, ah, you're going at this rate, and over time it will like slowly go. You need that bit of a shift, you need that bit of an inflection point. So I think, yeah, when you're younger, it's easier to have those moments. It's easier to go to university and decide to change because a lot of the time you don't have responsibilities, you don't have the mortgage, the kids, the opportunity cost in terms of the salary, the sunk cost in careers or people, and you can just be like, you know what, I'm focusing on myself, I'm not worrying about what other people think, or I don't have this manager or boss or parents because you're at university. So I think, yeah, the best time to start a business is absolutely first year of university.

Yeah, and it's all about giving yourself a shot. Like, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're always like almost— maths seemed to be your thing from a very young age. Like, you're a maths tutor, you've got like all A*s in your maths, and then you went to economics, and it seems like that's like your comfort zone, like something that you were always good at, and you could have just cruised through almost university and got your economics degree, but you, you wanted to challenge yourself.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's funny because actually now, like, I, like, the thing growing up, I loved math so much, I was doing it all the time. I thought I was going to be like, um, working finance or someone who's like very quantitative, um, but just because I was good at something, um, doesn't mean that that's what you have to do. And I think I probably listened to kind of more social norms, like, "Good at maths, go into finance, go and do this, go and do that." I really enjoy numbers still to this day, and I think it's still very useful being, like, good at maths. Still, there's so many benefits from it. But I don't want to be someone sitting behind, like, an Excel sheet analyzing numbers. I'll do it when I need to do that, and I have the ability to understand what what those numbers mean. But yeah, I don't think that's very enjoyable to be doing that all the time.

Yeah, and I saw it's again, like, yeah, talking about when you're younger, you're high performing at school, and, and maybe it's your parents have instilled in you. But one thing that I've struggled with, and I think lockdown a lot of people struggle with, and, you know, just going to university, is that loss of accountability. And, and how at school you had your parents, your teachers just telling you, you know, get this done, you know. And then suddenly it's all got to come from yourself. Yeah, and yeah, and then obviously now you start a business, like nobody's going to do it for you, it's all going to come from you. Between your relationship with accountability and how do you give it to yourself?

Yeah, so it's a really interesting question because I literally thought about this quite a lot over the last couple of years. Um, I have no accountability. I don't have any investors, any advisors. I'm the person in charge of the business. Um, yeah, I've literally zero accountability, which can be a worrying thing, but, but like, I'm so Most of it, again, it comes back to growing up and childhood. I know you spoke about, like, accountability from your parents and teachers, but growing up I didn't really have accountability from those people either because my parents were just like, anything I was doing was just like way above expectations, and I was kind of the one saying, no, I want to go and do this and revise or whatever or study. And at school, like, my school wasn't a great school, so like, because I was so far ahead of a lot of students, I was like, well, if there is the kind of school place where like, uh, you get like 99 in the test and, and that's unbelievable. I'm like, no, that's, that's not good enough because it needs to be 100, or wherever it needs to be. And that's always just like self-imposed. Um, and I'm very lucky that because I've done that for years and years and years growing up, that is my default, that is my habits, that those are my habits and my defaults, um, that now at this age like, it's kind of like that's my default and it drags me towards that, which is great. Had I grown up with someone holding me accountable all the time and I've lost that external accountability, I might struggle a lot more. And even though I've had all of that internal accountability and motivation, I'm still like saying, ah, it would be nice to have extra accountability.

Yeah, you said you didn't take investment in your company. I mean, obviously it started off just in your kitchen by yourself, but how come you've not taken that now? What's your thought process behind that?

Just like, again, um, don't need to, and just try and get as far as I can without needing to do it. Um, again, like, we didn't do paid ads for the first— or any paid marketing for the first, uh, 5 years the business got us over a million. Then we had a bit of stagnation, which might have been because of no paid marketing, it might have been because of the bureaucratic problems, that was the biggest factor. But I was also like, it's probably a bit silly for us to not do this. As soon as we started doing it, we're absolutely flying. And I'm just like, but why we're flying is because we haven't started being reliant on it. We've built really great foundations in terms of our brand, our content capabilities, um, and that's why we're now flying. I think people obviously want instant things, and I've always— something that we live by is always doing more with less. Um, I think that will always put you in a very good position going forward. It might not give you the best results in the short term, and now we are in a position where, like, I'm sure lots of people, even though it's an environment where people aren't wanting to invest as much in business, people are a bit more skeptical, if people want to invest in any business, like, most of our competitors have raised lots of money, well, actually, most of them aren't profitable, they're not growing as well, they've not done— like, imagine if this business had investment, it'd be such an attractive prospect, but we don't need it, kind of thing.

Yeah, no, it's an interesting one. I wonder, you seem so, you know, like you're obviously so driven and business-focused, and you know, how do you separate yourself, your own mental health, from that business side sometimes? Like, you know, especially working with your family, like how do you transition from like we're in work mode to we're chilling watching TV mode?

Yeah, well, when we first started, there'll be times where like we were sitting there watching TV and I was just like we're not doing enough as a business, like, let's turn the TV off. And like, even if it's at 8, 9 o'clock, I'm just like, I'm gonna go and work. And I knew that, like, me doing that, they'll probably feel guilty and feel like, I need to work, or whatever. And obviously it's not very nice, but at the end of the day, it's why we got to where we were. None of our competitors are doing that, very few businesses do that. That's why few businesses get to, like, a certain level without any investment. Moving out of home was I think it's very healthy, and I still go back home every probably like 3 times a month, like every week slash every other week, and whenever I go home I love it, it's really nice to go home, but I think yeah, like for my own growth and development it's better to be in London, and when I go back home I'm like, wow, this is very slow, it's very sleepy kind of thing, it's very calm and peaceful, It was nice to go there, but I don't think I would want to live there again now. Yeah. In terms of the other question was how you separate— is that kind of answering your question?

Yeah, yeah, it is. I guess it's also just generally you were talking about getting burnt out while you're at university, just taking too much on. How do you think you're getting better with that, and if so, what have you done to, you know—

I think just I'm just more efficient. I'm still doing lots, but one thing I really, really prioritise is sleep. Um, and like, I think last night I only slept for like 7 hours, but that's— for me, that's bad. But obviously I know that's actually not that bad, and there'll be other nights when I get 8 and a half, whatever. Um, but yeah, I think it's just like prioritizing sleep, prioritizing health is really important, and not having your non-negotiables. Um, I mean, I did go out on Friday night and slept like 5 hours actually. But then on Saturday when I was out and had a party to go to, I had another friend's party that I was actually at, then I was like, ah, at 10 I'm gonna go back in because I could end up here to 2 AM and have another 5 hours of sleep, but I know Monday I've got these 2 podcasts and I've got other stuff to do. I am going to be very behind and next week I'll probably be quite anxious because I'm like, oh fuck, I shouldn't have done that, I'm so behind now. Where actually it's taking yourself out of that and be like, okay cool, 'This was fun, like, it's enjoyable to have this break, but I need to get back and I need to get a good night's sleep.' Yeah, I imagine with your job now, one part of it at least is deciding who you bring into the company.

Like, I imagine you have control over who you bring in, right? And for a young person looking to join Summer, or just any advice, what stands out to you most?

I imagine what you've said is having a drive, like, being passionate is the important thing, but I think Are you saying like, for me, what do I look for in candidates? Yeah, um, I would say initiative. And like, you wouldn't believe like how rare it is. Like, we've got a job live currently on LinkedIn, lots of applicants. And like, I actually had hundreds of applicants before, took the post down because I just couldn't have time to go through them all. And I put it back up and I was like, out of like— I think at the moment it has like this existing one, I was like 50 applicants— only one person has done like a a personalized, like, kind of, like, CV. And I was just like, it doesn't take a lot. It absolutely doesn't take a lot. Just tailor your approach a little bit. Um, it doesn't take a lot to research a company and show a bit of, like, um, enthusiasm, initiative. Like, show that you've actually, like, you want to work with a company. Show that you've, like, um, done your research. Show that, like, you're going to be, like, talented or special. Um, it really doesn't take that much effort to do it, but you'd be surprised how few people do it. Um, so it's like when you're applying for jobs, like, show why you're special. Don't be safe. Don't try and do the standard things. Like, with the marketing role, uh, one of the questions I asked is, um, can you name some brands or creators that you like the content they're doing at the moment you think someone could learn from? And again, I'm not saying other brands necessarily, it could be brands or creators. And I think so many of them have thought about the question before, seen that, like, it's content. And the amount of interviews where the person has said Ryanair and Duolingo, and I'm just like, you've always said the same thing. And it's just like, do you know what I mean? It's just like, ah, okay, I'm waiting for someone to say something else, I'm waiting for someone to do something else. Um, and even on Friday I was interviewing someone and she was sat there like this, and then she was like, ah, okay. Um, but yeah, it is, it's just, um, I don't know. Yeah, there's a— I do think there's an issue with like, I'm technically Gen Z by like 8 days, um, but I do think there's an issue with like younger generations where they're just like, um, The older generations, the issue is being stuck in the ways and kind of being a bit too traditional, a bit too formal. The younger generation is just, I think there's a lot of self-entitlement. And like, if you're young and you want to go and start up, like, appreciate what that startup can do for you and be like, obviously I'm not saying like you should be like, oh, I'm gonna work this company 30 years and they can treat me like shit and I just work really hard for them. That's not the case. But you should be like, okay, cool, there's opportunity to learn lots here if I really put in the work. I believe that I'll be rewarded and I'll kind of do it after. But in the amount of people I think these days who are like, right up front, you need to reward me for X, Y, and Z, and then I'll come in, and I actually, I probably, I'll work from home 7 days a week, and when I work from home I'll just chill out, and do you mean I'll— yeah, yeah.

And maybe that's the kind of person you'd want for summer, but in terms of like actually what's on the CV, you know, so you're at school right now, you're about to go to university, not to discredit spring weeks or, you know, summer internships or consulting firms, but those are like, they just show you're a competent person.

Yeah, of course.

What are some, you know, is it just like taking initiative? Like you said, you wrote a blog. Like, what do you think makes you actually stand out?

Um, I would say like, also don't forget, those things are actually really good things. They do, they show that you're credible. That is like, oh well, actually I'm now gonna— if you've got like 5 CVs and the first thing always on CVs is education, if you're just like good university, but okay cool, first of all, that person's jumped through some barriers, like they've got through barriers. There's a— I'm gonna now like give that CV a bit more time. Um, if they've got good grades, you can give that CV a bit more time. Even just the look and the presentation of the CV helps a lot. But in terms of other things, um, I would say yeah, just like obviously the person who's looking at your CV— I'm not sure all the time, but when I'm looking at CV, I know like your age, I know like your background. I'm not expecting Like, if someone's 18 or like 20, and there could be someone, right, for example, um, there could be someone for a marketing role. You don't have to have gone to university. There could be someone who's done history at Cambridge. And in fact, I did speak to someone the other week who'd done like a degree, an undergrad at Oxford, and then a master's at Cambridge. I just didn't think that they were that good for the role. I think especially for marketing, I think they'd be a bit too kind of academic. Yeah, a bit too rigid. Whereas it could be someone who is 20, has done an apprenticeship for 2 years, but they've got their own social media page, they've got their own blog, there's attention to detail. Like, if I send you a task to do and say, oh, here's a deadline, and actually be like, okay, cool, and you send it 3 days early and with going above and beyond with an accompanying document with extra things, like, okay, cool, it's really not that hard to impress.

Yeah, and we ask all our guests this question But what is your own personal definition of success? Because I think for you it's interesting, you know, like looking at when you first joined university, it might have just been like grades, grades, grades, like get to do the best in school, like, yeah. And now you've got your own business and it's a different landscape you're looking ahead towards, like, yeah. How has your definition of success changed? Like, what is it?

Oh, it's right, I've taken out lunch. Yeah, of course, yeah, go for it. So, uh, I think I wrote in a post somewhere or in a piece of content because I think it's just like a nice kind of soundbite. I do agree with it. I wouldn't write anything I don't agree with, but I put success is, um, liking who you are, what you do, and how you do it. I think that's a very nice definition because I think about it, like, if you like who you are, what you do, and how you do it, it's a pretty good life. Like, you're pretty successful, I would say. So I think that's a really good definition. Um, I'm not sure if like if I actually had to stop and really think about it, that would be my answer, but I think that's a really good like kind of start point. I think, um, what does success mean now? I think for me personally, um, I think it always comes back to also like kind of your potential, fulfilling your potential. Like, life is very short, um, and like, are you proud of, of who you are and what you're doing? Do you think like you're like, I think that's quite an important thing, are you proud of who you are and what you're doing as well?

Yeah, and I've not done this before on the podcast and, you know, given it's the first new video on, why not try something new, but there are the Diary of a CEO conversation cards. You just pick, well, the top one, but they come randomly shuffled.

Yeah, yeah.

To finish off the episode, just to give your answer to that question.

What are you clear about now that 1 year ago you didn't know? Um, okay, what am I clear about now that 1 year ago I didn't know? Wow, because I was speaking to my brother about this this weekend. 1 year ago, let's reflect on where I was a year ago. I was just like, kind of, even though I graduated in 2020, I was only actually going for my graduation in 2022. A year ago I was like, I remember being at my graduation and I stayed like a few nights in Bristol with mates And I remember like that one week our sales like fell by 30%, and I was just like, what am I doing? Like, could I be working on like a big— like, should I be working at Google? Should I be working another startup? What am I doing here? Um, and now this year we're absolutely flying as a business, been flying for a while now. Um, and if someone— like, we set ambitious goals for this year and we've way overexceeded these ambitious goals. And even this weekend we're like, ah, we're gonna probably have some capacity issues where we can't like we need to do some stuff before we can fulfill, keep scaling as we are. But then I just took a moment to think, isn't that a great problem to have? That our problem is now, not that we're struggling as a business, but we have so many orders that we need to expand our capacity. And if someone had offered us this to us last year, we'd have bitten the hand off for it. So what are you clear about now that one year you didn't know? I think on that, actually, like, what we've built is like a year ago, I wasn't clear on like what we built is like this really special business. Obviously, you have those moments of doubt. But what we care about is like Simr is an excellent business, it's all going to be okay and it's going to be great in fact. Yeah, I think that's the thing that sticks out in my head at the moment.

Yeah, it's a great note to end on. Thanks so much for coming on today, Simr, it was a pleasure.

Good having a good coming in and chat to you.