Revamping Your Thought Leadership Value Proposition

Dubies.

That's the original homeschooling, I guess. Anyway, people are popping in quick. So I see a bunch of names I recognize and probably more that I don't, which is cool. So some of you have joined us. Bill and I had this idea, I guess it was 2 weeks ago, Bill, or something like that, when the world first started to— hey, Shannon— when the world first started to change rapidly. And we just said, you know, everybody's freaking out. We have a Zoom account, we have access to people, let's just put the two together. That was our Reese's Pieces moment, or Reese's whatever it is. And we ran 3 sessions without any structure, just having informative conversations. And it went really well, I think. It feels like it went well. And people, there've been some side relations. Shannon, I know you did something for Simon's group, 'cause we had a call with him, that's very, very, very cool. So I would, one is I'd encourage you all to— reach out to each other, say hello to each other, figure out stuff you can do and whatever. But I know Shannon gave a grit webinar of sorts to Simon that was on one of our calls in the UK. So that's pretty cool. We can still be global even if we're home. So for this call, what Bill and I decided is we had a pretty good response rate as of, I think this morning there were like 50-some-odd people that signed up. Typically, I don't expect we'll get 50 to show up. Maybe we will. Freddie! That's my buddy Freddie Ravel.

Hey, Freddie.

We'll probably get 25 or 30, so we're going to change the format a little bit. Freddie, put on your mic, say hi. Nope, your mic's not on. So Bill and I added a little bit of structure to this so that we can keep these conversations going. So good to see you, Freddie.

It's good to see everybody. Good morning, everyone. Good morning.

And we'll always have at least one person interesting. So Shannon, not that you're not interesting with the one of the first females to fly an Apache helicopter. But Freddie is an old friend and is a Grammy Award-winning musician and has played with— I apologize for Bieber, but Santana, Earth, Wind Fire. He's a rockin' keyboardist and a keynoter. So he's the guy that created the— what do you call it, Freddie? Keynote Concert?

The Keynote Concert and Life in Tune.

And Life in Tune, yeah. So Freddie's got some really good content out in LA. If nothing else, you get to meet some interesting people. So the theme that we had put up— hey, James. The theme that we had put up— if I don't call out your name, please don't be insulted. I'm trying to read the screen and promote this all at once, and I don't see everybody's name. So the piece that we thought we would put out there, and Bill and I have some thoughts on this, is, all right, so this is going to be a while, whatever the new this is, and we're not going back to— this isn't a slight interruption, right? So it's not like next week this is going to go back and we're all going back to keynotings, jumping on airplanes face-to-face. We don't know how long it's going to be. And I think that assuming everybody is healthy, I don't want to underplay that, but, you know, assuming everybody is healthy, taking the precautions they need to, doing what they need to do, it is okay to start thinking about what's next. And one of the things that I've had several conversations with folks over the last couple of weeks is how do I sort of redefine and rearticulate my value proposition when I'm not in person, when I'm not at Keynote. And I'll pick on you. So I've seen Freddie perform in the Keynote. Well, one, I've seen him perform with Carlos, which was cool.

Mm-hmm.

But I've also seen his concerts and they're incredibly experiential. I mean, he's up there and he's using jazz and music as a metaphor for leadership. Really, really different. It's dramatic, it's experiential. You walk into the room and there's this just just cool vibe. So the question that we all have, for some it's easier than the other, is how do you— what is your value prop and how do you deliver it? Because the new world isn't just 45 minutes on video. It's really thinking through who do you provide value to, how do you provide it, who's most valuable, who's least valuable to, and not, you know, giving in to the constraints of, well, I do my 45 minutes and this is the way I've always done it and it's worked. I think you have to reexamine everything. Do you want to— You want to throw something out there, Bill?

Yeah, there's a couple things that I'd build on to that. First, speaking is— and keynote speaking is one of the obvious ones where events have closed down. But if you're a road warrior consultant and you're used to working one-on-one, whether with a senior executive or a leadership team or clients, your world has changed too. If you're running workshops and getting hands-on, hand-to-hand with a lot of folks and teaching them valuable content. Those modalities have all been swept away, right? And I think to build on Peter's point, for what I would describe as those of us who identify as thought leaders on the go, you know, you've got your rollerboard packed, you know how to pack and go in 60 minutes, and you're off to the airport, and you live by IATA codes, right? It's a strange new world, right, where we're used to creating value by being in the room with our ideas. And now the challenge is we, we can't rely on that modality. And one of two things needs to happen. Either we need to create value at a distance, or the other option is We need ways for ideas to create value for people without us in the room. And so there's a reformulation of the equation. We almost have to give space for our ideas to come to life. And so just a few housekeeping things. We're going to throw out some questions during this session, and we're going to try and give as many people as we can A chance to speak, share ideas. This is going to be a roundtable format. We're going to ask, keep your responses 60 to 90 seconds. And that's not because we don't want to go deep into stories, but just because there are a lot of folks here and we want to give everybody a chance. A couple other housekeeping things. If you've got something that you want to say, the question sounds interesting to you, we're all— Peter and I are both watching the video and the whole camera. Wave, sort of catch our attention, we'll acknowledge you. and then we'll get to you, right? So—

And let me add to that, Bill.

Yeah, please.

You don't have to limit your questions to Bill and I, because we're clearly not the smartest guys. Well, I'll talk for myself. I'm clearly not the smartest guy in the room. But if you have a question for another guest, feel free to go for it. So, you going to add something to that, Bill?

No, I think that's good. We're going to dive in with some questions. Also, if you've got a question that you want to share with the group, You can use chat, make sure it's going to everyone, and then we'll be monitoring the chat too. So if there's a good question, we'll throw it out to the group. And with that, let's roll our sleeves up and get started.

Cool. So let me first start with— I don't know if I'd call it an icebreaker, but one of the things I've heard— hey, Larry— one of the things I've heard from a lot of folks over the last couple of weeks is how do you move your deliverable again, whether it's a keynote, a workshop, a consulting engagement, whatever, from an event to a process and break it down and reevaluate. What do you do before? Like, so we had some folks on last week, Waldo and Shapiro, and both of them were really, really interesting in terms of, you know them, Freddie, talking about breaking down what was a keynote into, well, here's some stuff they can do before. I'll make a custom video, give them some questions, whatever. Then we do some live interaction stuff, break them into breakouts, and then there's some things that we do after. So I think that's one thing just to sort of pepper out there. So, In terms of questions, you know, what, what are the— what have you tried that's worked and what haven't you tried yet that you think might work that you're thinking about now in terms of alternative formats? And by the way, some of us have been doing distance delivery for a long time. It's not brand new to everybody. But I think given that, at least what the next, who knows, you know, rest of this year, 6 months or something looks like, we all better get fluent in it if we want to keep our businesses going. So what has anybody tried that's worked or not worked or struggled with or— Freddie?

Yeah, well, first of all, what an honor to be on, on this call with all these illustrious and wonderful fellow speakers and influencers, you know. I think it's a pinnacle moment for all of us. I think this is an amazing time to be. In some ways, I think many people feel that the world was desperate for a reset button. You know, I like to call this period the Great Positive, and I spell it P-A-U-S-E-I-T-I-V-E. You know, it's like the world has hit the pause button, and it's astounding. I mean, could any of us have imagined 3 weeks ago seeing the Eiffel Tower empty or Times Square empty or London's You know, all these major metropolis areas empty. It's utterly astounding. And at the same time, I— in music, we call this the space between the notes. It turns out that the notes in music, just because they move us, it turns out that the space that's in between each note is what actually makes our work more important. And now we've got the world captive. The world is, you know, literally quarantined to their home. And it's a golden opportunity for us. I actually feel it's a pinnacle, pivotal moment for all of us. Those of us who give knowledge and give our thoughts and our prayers, and at the same time our counseling. to executives, to entrepreneurs, self-help, all that entire world of coaching that we're all involved in. I don't think there's a great— I don't think there could be a greater need than there is now. I think the key would be to speak to what— where the temperature of the public is in right now.

So let me, let me ask you a couple of questions, Freddie, because I happen to know your stuff. I think we can use you as a case study for a little bit. Is that okay?

Sure.

Look Freddie up online. He's got the concert keynote. It's very, very cool and very experiential. So I would think the challenge he has to translate to a valuable deliverable, a valuable deliverable might be higher than most, right? Because he— you don't have the room and you don't— you know, there's a lot of things. But if I were to ask you 3 months ago, and you and I have had these conversations, Freddie, so what is it you hope happens to people as a result of seeing the— seeing your keynote concert? What are the 2 or 3 takeaways you would think they would have? How would you— How would you have answered that?

It's simple. Um, the number one thing that I'm teaching is listening skills.

Okay.

Because listening skills to me are the most neglected thing on planet Earth. People are so caught up in their own ego and their own agenda and their own destination that they forget about listening to one another. Uh, it turns out that listening is the flagpole, if you will, that is the centerpiece of music. And, um, In all my years of working with a lot of different artists, if I was not listening and 100% present, there's no way that Madonna, Prince, and Earth, Wind Fire, and Carlos Santana, and all these different people I work with, um, they would have fired me on the first day if I wasn't dialed into what their needs were and what they were going for. So I think listening is especially critical if you're a musician, but I basically took that notion and that skill set in music and translated it across the world of corporate training.

Yep. And so, so if that hasn't changed, okay, so let's, let's say it's listening and collaborations are the 2 primary outcomes of the concert, and the music and all that were really just props and tools to help us to get to be better listeners and collaborators. Now, if I were you, I'd go back to the drawing board and say, okay, so if I can't have 800 people or 200 people, whatever it is, in a room with a wonderful group of musicians, What can I do to get them there, right? Does it— is it music anymore? And I don't have the answers, but I'm saying I would be whiteboarding with that. Like, I still want to get to this outcome for these people, corporate people. Now I've got this big white space, if you will, in the middle that I got to fill in and undo everything that you've mastered over the last 15 years is now, is now open, you know, open for discussion and experimentation.

I think for me to eat— to make an honest comment, I would have to, I would have to have time to learn about Carolyn, Bill, John, Melissa, David, Terry, Bruce, Tiffany, Gail, James, Andrew, Deborah, Donna, Shannon, Michael, Nancy, Barry, and Todd, because there's no way I could make an honest connection with anybody unless I first listen, right?

Yep.

So I would, I would first, before I, I could make a valid contribution, I would want to understand the needs, maybe some of the fears, the pain, the trepidation that I think all of us are feeling. You know, I do have some very positive news I can share that I'm very excited to share with everybody. But I also, first, I think it's important that I have a chance to learn everyone and figure out ways that I can contribute.

No, fantastic. Thank you, sir.

Cool.

Anyone else want to add to that?

I have a question, actually.

Sure.

It's Nancy. So my question really is on the whole listening component. And I think this is a really fabulous and fascinating subject to be discussing right now. There's so much anger and angst and fear in the world, in the corporate world as well as the entrepreneurial world. and other worlds going on. It sounds very profound. Not enough coffee today, or maybe too much coffee. My computer freaking out on me. But what happens when you're dealing with leaders at the top, CEOs, board people, who all, you know, bluntly put it in non-technical terms, are in a freakout mode themselves, both personally and professionally? And they're the ones that an entire staff goes to to look for support. And then you see these guys, and I'm putting in quotes guys, that are saying, I'm not gonna take my salary, which everybody applauds. And now you find out behind the scenes that they're gonna make out even better by not making any salary because of all the benefits and the packages and the options that they've had. My concern, or my question really is, how do you deal with The voices that may or may not be heard at the bottom levels who are now being let go and hurt even more because of the actions of the, you know, what's happening, or maybe the lack of listening that's happening at the top. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I don't know if I have an answer to it.

I mean, I was just reading an article in the Journal, or it was the FT, this morning. I'm thinking, you've got to be kidding. You know, the guys who are supposed to be the martyrs at the top, who really are, you know, I mean, I'd love to be there too with the multi-million dollars, whatever, are the ones that are saying, we're helping, we feel your pain, but they're benefiting from the pain. So, I mean, it sort of, I guess, goes back to my last question on, you know, the creepiness of people selling aggressively in this market. But, you know, is there an answer to teach maybe corporations and some of our leaders to be better listeners to To a lifestyle that they're just not used to at a middle and lower level. I don't know what the answer is. I just bring it out.

May I?

Yeah, go ahead, Deborah.

Yeah, Deborah.

Okay, so, um, as being, uh, one of the most introverted people on the planet, as I've been called in the past, uh, many of my colleagues who are introverts and are silent often will be overlooked. And yet what we are needing right now are exactly those silent types, the introverts, to come up and be part of us, be encouraged to be planners and innovators, because they can think through often the creativity that is needed to address this unknown situation.

Yep.

And you've got these people who look like they're just sitting in the corner, and believe me, I've sat in many corners. They, they are actually processing things at a rate that many people would be surprised at, and they have answers. And if we can convince the CEOs and the managers and supervisors to take a look at these people more closely, I think we will come out with an incredibly different vision for the future, which we'll need. And I've been asked to speak on this more in the past 3 weeks than I have in the past 30 years.

Wow.

And I suppose that's good. It's just a little bit much for an introvert, but I also want to, to make that difference. Then we have to convince the introverts that they should They can. Of all the people in the— on the planet who are prepared for being self-isolated, the introverts got it totally. And they have skills and strategies they don't even know they have. But if they can be conscious of it and share it, we're all going to be better off.

So then how do you— how do you ask, or how do you encourage? Because you never can tell an extrovert what to do.

No, because they'll hide.

Yeah.

And so, so how do you convince an extrovert who's been in the position of always being the one to speak at the top of the ladder to just shut the hell up for a while?

That's the way to say it, right?

And listen, and listen, which is typically not a good, you know, a great skill.

Well, I mean, I think where we're trying to go here is, listen, things are going to ebb and flow. People are going to make good decisions and bad decisions and do good things and stupid things and silly things. And when the dust settles, we'll see all of it, right? What I was trying to help folks with today is rethinking the way that their content is valuable in the market. So James, can I pick on you for a minute, Mr. Sculler? Your microphone is off there. James is an old friend and client, is one of the, one of the best executive coaches on the planet. And from my recollection, the way you worked is it was really, really important for you to spend that face time with a lot of your clients, right?

Right.

And it just, just was. So, you know, you still have— you're still a former CEO, you're still a world-renowned executive coach, you still have all— nobody took any of that away from you. The variable is you can't sit in a room with a CEO now. So how are you adjusting? And because I'm sure you, you know, unless, unless all the knowledge fell out of your brain the other day, um, you need to pivot. So how are you doing that and adjusting both as a practitioner and then to the receiver?

Uh, well, the first thing to say is that this is not, um, a huge shock to the system because, uh, I have used video extensively in the last 10, 15 years. I've had clients that have been either in, uh, Washington, D.C., or Dubai, or Singapore, and the entire coaching assignment was via video. So with Zoom being better than Skype, I've just switched to that. So I have a ready-made format. I think if you've got a— if your presence is developed enough, you can transmit that, you can connect with the client, and you can connect even with the extrovert client. And I would suggest to— who was it who asked that interesting question? Nancy, ask a bloody difficult question would be my suggestion. It's like putting a spoke between— a stick between the bicycle spokes. So in that sense, I had a ready-made technology to switch to, Peter.

Okay, good.

So you have the technology, but I think there's another piece of it in when you've been doing something a certain way. So like Bill and I are pivoting, we're doing things remotely now, right? Traditionally, you'd be in the room, let's say, for your first session with the CEO, and maybe you did your 360s and stuff before, You're tuned into body language, you're tuned into the symbolism of the office. Does he have you— does he welcome you with a cup of coffee? Does he put you in the— you know, all the little nonverbals that are critical. You don't have that now, right? So what are you tuning into more or replacing that, or how do you— how do you modulate what you're receiving?

Well, this is building on what Freddie was saying earlier on about listening. Right now I'm setting up a new assignment With a big French multinational, and I'm talking to 8 of her colleagues, one of whom is her boss, and the others, 2 or 3 report to her, and the others are peers. And there I'm just listening. I'm listening to what they're saying, what they're not saying, how they're saying it, just like any of you might, might do that. If I have the luxury of a picture, moving picture like this, then I'm taking it in. I'm just— it's part of a coach a coach's training and experience, you're, you're trying to gather intuitive impressions all the time. So in a sense, it doesn't change that much. It may surprise you, but it doesn't change that much.

Good. Thanks. Thanks, James. I appreciate that. Gail, you had your hand up there.

Yes, I just wanted to say, in everything that I see that's happening right now, there's— it's not— it's a shift, but it's really not a shift. Many of us are already using technology and what have you in what we do. I mean, we have to in order for us to be successful. But also the people that we're serving, these executives, they got there because they understood some things about process and people. But what I see changing mostly is before, the bottom line was always the money. And in light of what's happening now, the bottom line is shifting from people to connections. And I agree with Deborah about the introverts. They're always— they're the ones that are standing in the background taking notes on everything.

They don't—

In other words, if I wanna know something as an extrovert, I always ask an introvert because they don't miss a detail. And so you're able to capture something, what we're already doing, and just changing it and putting it on a different platform, if you will.

Yeah.

And it doesn't change because our energy is still there. And what we do is still very relevant and even more so. So I see it changing maybe from the money, which is critical, to the value, more value of people. And I believe these people sitting in these offices, by the mere fact that they have decided, some of them, to take their salaries mean that they're looking, they're searching for solutions. It's not, you know, they're comfortable, but they're looking for us, people like us, to say, okay, now that you've not taken your salary, let's look at the next step. They're open to a movement, a shift. So that's all I want to say.

So Bruce and Freddie, and then David, did you have something?

Yes.

Or no?

Okay.

So Bruce, Freddie, David, and then I've got something to bring us back.

So what I've been looking at in all of this is a, is a pulling back of resistance that because everybody is sort of being forced into this new way of living. I've done more Zoom calls than I've done meetings. And there are many people who always resisted doing online video, or they might do it, but they just don't really want to do it. Now they're having to do it with their family, their friends, their coworkers, everything. So by the time we sort of come through this in a few months. we will be in a new way of thinking and the resistance to that this is a way of communicating will have dropped dramatically. You know, I mean, resistance has, has dropped in broadcasting, advertising, marketing, you know, distribution and manufacturing, you know, especially somebody like me who has lots of online products and done these kinds of things for years. That resistance has dropped. And I think there's an overlying resistance over all of that. And that's what's happening now and that we will all be much more used to it and accepting of doing any kind of, you know, video thing from our kids all the way up through to us. That resistance is going to be peeled away. And it's a whole new— I agree with Freddie a lot. It's— we are in a completely shifting, changing world. It's going to be a brand new way of thinking and acting and reaching out to people.

So.

Cool.

Thank you, Freddie.

Yeah, well, what I'd like to point out, and I imagine everyone on this call has experienced it, I know that in a lot of the events that I've been doing for the last 5 years, and they've been global events, I've done— I've been in 82 countries in the last 5 years. So I do a lot of traveling. I was in Singapore last year, and many of the events that I do, the client was Prudential. Many of the events I do, there are translator booths. And one of the advantages of using music as a metaphor is it is the undisputed international language of the world. So people— you can transcend words by using music to explain concepts. So that's made it very international. So what I want to say is I've been speaking a lot to the issue of diversity and inclusion, which I imagine many of you have spoken to that because that's such a hot topic issue. And that was the world before the pandemic. And at the time, the 3 big issues that have been coming up, even as recent as a month ago before the pandemic hit, was 3 things: ESG, which is environment, society, and governance. These 3 things are kind of the hottest topics. You'll see all the big companies that the advising companies like McKinsey, Deloitte, PwC. These are the areas that people have really— that leaders have been looking to guide corporations on. So I actually— ESG as well, because they were hot topic issues. I would say now that the society— okay, environment is big because of climate change. That's a whole other topic. But society is the big sticky right now. That's where, like, as Gail was saying, as Deborah was saying, you know, and also what Bruce was echoing, that the resistance to technology is melting away because a lot of people had to come into Zoom kicking and screaming. There's a whole sector of people that can't stand communicating the way we're communicating. Now, I happen to love it because we're all communicating. I get to meet a bunch of amazing people in One moment. I mean, how— and I'm grateful to Peter and Bill for pulling us all together, because how on God's earth could I have met all of you in one call? And then there's a chat room so we can all mastermind and collect and communicate ideas in a chat.

Yeah.

That's pretty special. I don't think we could even do this in a restaurant, all getting together. So on one level, Zoom is actually crazy profound. Because we can get very intimate and share authenticity and fear and concerns in ways that we never had before. So I actually see this as a great positive, to echo that word again. I think there is a lot of good that will come out of it.

So let me go to David, and then Bill's got something he wants to share. What do you got?

So kind of playing on all that Freddie has said and has been said, There. For those of you who are connections with me on LinkedIn, you've seen that since our last call, I have actually started a new book and it's Lessons of Leadership from Submarines. And kind of playing on Freddie's comments about listening, I'm also a semi-professional vocalist.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, it's important when you're listening And in performance, you not only have to listen to the— or watch the conductor, you have to listen to what they want. But when you're actually performing the music, you have to listen to the others. Because if my voice now, if I'm so concerned about my voice being heard, I destroy the tenors or the altos or the sopranos because I make me more important than the chorus itself. And it's when you are listening to each other and you are all working toward that common goal of creating a beautiful piece of music, that's when it works. So you have to work together. And one of the most important things, I think, speaking to the other comments about leaders that have become disconnected with the lower levels of their teams. In submarines, everybody had value. Once you earned those dolphins that went over your chest— and back in my day they were tacked on— you became a member of value. You could speak to anyone. And I think that's what I have tried to carry forward in leadership in the ensuing years, is always making each member of my team know that they are valuable. They are valuable to the whole team effort.

Yep.

And I think one thing that we can kind of reinforce to executive leadership that doesn't consider this— what is the value of that low-level team member beyond the salary or the wages that we pay?

Yeah.

Because there is a level of corporate knowledge, of system knowledge, of knowledge of how the company works that if you let that person go and then they don't come back after it's all over with, you have just sacrificed a huge amount of information and experience that will in the end could be crippling to the business.

Thanks, David. So I want to go to Bill and then Todd. I see your hands up and Deborah, but Bill had something he wanted to throw in.

So also we've got Donna in there. She messaged me privately.

Okay, so let's go to Bill and then we'll go to Todd and then Deborah and Donna.

Okay, so where I want to take us is I get the opportunity to think about thought leadership sort of as a construct as its own, right? What is thought leadership? How does it work? And I know everybody here has a bunch of ideas. In fact, if I were to sit down with any of you, I'm certain you have dozens to hundreds of ideas. That's what thought leaders do. So I want to go back to what something Deborah was talking about, of the expertise for a world in need of ideas. I've been stepping back and I've been watching what large organizations that do thought leadership, how they've changed their messaging, okay, as well as then some of what people who are pretty savvy in terms of social right now. I want to talk about a couple patterns, and I want to give you a framework not only for thinking about what messaging and what content you're putting out now, but also sort of a language that you can use in the future. I'll root it in today, but realize it's something that you can extend for the long term.

Okay.

So I'm going to share a screen here for a second. And hopefully it all comes up and folks can see it here. Let me go into slideshow.

Okay.

It's a simple concept. I want to talk about your thought leadership stance. And your stance is a choice. What content are you putting out in the world?

Okay.

And there's a couple of things. Your content can be profound. It can be the work of 10 years of research and study that really requires time and reflection for people to master and understand. Or on the other side, it can be timely. It's that insight or piece of advice that people need today. It's a problem that the world is facing now, or that a certain group of people are facing now. So one way to think about your stance is, is, is the content that I'm sending out into the world, is it profound or is it timely? The other piece, the other axis is between reacting and leading. Okay, leading— the way that I think about it is a question of, are you driving the conversation? Are you initiating a conversation that people go, oh, that's a good topic, I should be thinking about that? Or alternately, are you reacting? Is it a topic that everybody's talking about and you're saying, I have a new way of thinking about this. So if you pause for a moment on this framework, we've got timely to profound, we've got leading to reacting. What I noticed as I started watching organizations carefully over the last 3, 4 weeks is for those that are doing thought leadership well, there's been a shift and they— there was a pause button pressed. To go back to a theme from earlier in the conversation, and people started initially going, hey, what we're putting out there isn't relevant in this world, and everybody jumped to the timely and reacting. So if you noticed on LinkedIn, there were all sorts of groups posting on working from home, for example. They were the problems of the day, but they were not thought leadership. It was thought reaction. Hey, I've got a good solution for this timely problem. In terms of your stance, I think it's natural to go into that timely reacting now. But what I'm seeing is both in LinkedIn and short-form sort of formats, people moving who are good at thought leadership and social media are moving to timely and leading. They're starting new conversations. They're offering short-form sage advice that isn't just reacting. And so the time for— there will be time for books. There will be time for white papers and long-form pieces, the profound. Right now, we're looking for someone who can lead and offer something timely. And so what I would encourage you to think about In this, this moment is not only what is your stance now, but for the future, where do you want it? And for each piece of content you're creating, where does it sit? That's my observation for this conversation.

Great.

Thanks.

That's—

I think that's great. Todd, you had a comment you wanted to add to that. Scott is clapping.

Sure.

Nice to meet all of you. Peter, I've been following you for years. This is my first time interacting with you. So a pleasure to see you in person and to meet everyone. Oh, thank you.

So, um, appreciate that.

I was going to talk— I was going to build on what, uh, what was said before between Freddie and Deborah about introverts and, and, and the importance of listening. And one of the things I found is, as with the transition to Zoom— I teach leadership at NYU in Columbia, always in the classroom. I literally had 24 hours to learn how to shift my class from classroom to online. What's interesting about Zoom, it levels the playing field in a way. There's no sitting in the back row or hiding, you know. Whether it's like The Brady Bunch or Hollywood Squares, we each have the same real estate, you know, whatever metaphor you want to use. We each have that same little box on the Zoom screen. And what I found is a lot of my students who were quieter in the classroom have been more vocal, including the introverts, on Zoom than they were—

Yeah.

For some reason, they feel even more comfortable. Also, because everyone's in isolation in their own homes, all my students are younger and single. They are looking for an opportunity to connect with each other and to hear from us as the leaders, as the professors. that we're going through the same experience. We're in solitary. We are in isolation. We're dealing with this crisis the same way. So that listening, the empathy— so I literally put my whole lesson plan aside and spent the first 45 minutes of my class the other night just listening to what people were talking about. And then we tied this into leadership. Then we talked about how is Cuomo dealing with this? How is Trump handling things? How is Fauci? Mm-hmm. So by making it relevant, It was the best participation I've ever had in a class with this particular group. So that was great. And also just building on what Bill was talking about, my specialty is called visual leadership. It's all about using visual thinking and visual communication. So using mental models like Bill's model that he just gave us, using metaphor, analogy, and storytelling, even more relevant online than it is in person because it's a visual— we're all looking at each other. So So anyway, those are some of the thoughts that I just wanted to share triggered by this conversation so far.

So Donna, I know you pinged me through chat and you said you had something you wanted to add. So let's go to you.

Thank you.

Yeah, it goes back to what the observation that Deborah and Gail were both putting forward in terms of both being inner Bert and then something else about— it's that zone where you pivot. So I want to combine that also with what Freddie said, because I think what this is about also is having— bringing a whole new Part of humanity online, of being human online. And that's the part where we sense situations. So introverts are sensing all the time. You can't, you can't get away from it. It's, it's ubiquitous and it's persistent and it's a lot of data. And so you develop a set of skills that go with that so you can filter out the data and make sense of it in a way that doesn't take you out. I think we're in that zone now. And when I look at What executives are doing, and this is where I have to go to you, you know, for your observations for sure. But there, those that are in a state of fear and are using it to make short-term, you know, knee-jerk decisions like layoffs and so on and so forth, are the ones that actually can't hear when we're reaching out and saying, hey, there's another way. When you want to shift into that leading and perfect, you know, that zone you just talked about, Bill. So because they're in protection mode, the flip side of it is, and this is the conversation I've been having with some of the military folks in the US because I'm in Canada, but different culture altogether from that standpoint. But it is about using that uncertainty, using fear as fuel, and using the uncertainty to do something quite different. And so I'm wondering, you know, if I listen to how I would approach out my next piece, which is sort of a sense-making, a way of making sense out of COVID and what it means for humanity on our trajectory of as human beings working on a planet that is rapidly decreasing in resiliency and capacity to sustain life. I'm thinking about what is it that these executives who are in fear making these short-term decisions, what is it they care about enough that you can get their attention and snap them out of that zone of running around with their hair on fire?

Great.

So, Deborah, you've got your hand— yeah, yeah, you've got your hand up. So go ahead, Deborah. And then, Peter, do you want to go to a question after this, or where do we think about where you want to go?

So I got some stuff.

Yep.

Deborah, then back to Peter.

So I wanted to share that, that after 9/11, when we were experiencing somewhat similar fear, And I made the decision to try and translate my introvert thought processes and creativity, whatever, into a mode of training that would be tapping into neuroscience of the brain, which didn't— a term that didn't exist back then. But I understood that people weren't listening. My sense of it is, and it's not just a matter of fear. However, it is simply not having the connections in the brain to make sense of the data that they are being given. Now, how do you change that? How do you create the neuroscience, the neuro connections that will enable them to make the most of the data that's being given them? So I created something called the Matrix Model Management System. Which is a multi-level system based on communication and storytelling, on emotional intelligence, which was a very key element of it, and then the various decision-making categories that would lead into it, ending up with, well, the planning mode, and I used my background in cultural anthropology and urban planning to create this. But I don't want people to think that you can just say to a CEO or anyone else, don't be afraid, and then when you're not afraid, you're going to come up with all these wonderful ideas. Not necessarily. Maybe some will, but there's a lot more to it than just telling them to get over themselves. That's my story. I'm sticking to it.

Great. Thank you. So let me throw a couple thoughts out there in terms of, you know, getting through to the executive. I think there's a couple pieces to this. One is timing. You know, how many of our clients are back to normal? Probably nobody's back to normal, but how many of them are even ready for a call? depending on what we had done, right? So I think there's an appropriateness, and then I think there's a resonance and a relevance, you know, to be able to gauge when. What I've seen anecdotally, not data-wise, is people just reaching out to their clients and colleagues and friends and saying, hey, I'm around, you know, I've got some observations, happy, you know, around when you need it, being aware that the world has changed and all that. And I think there's all sorts of interesting— conversations and collaborations and things happening. I'm almost excited to get to the point 2 years from now when we start to hear stories like Deborah's of during 9/11, this was the aha. You could just smell that there's so many people at these pivotal points doing the thing that they always wanted to do or writing that book like Dave is starting or whatever it is. I think there's a genesis for that. I want to go back to sort of the theme that we started with on really getting tight around your value prop of your content and, and rethinking that.

Shannon, you took—

you— oh no, I thought you're saying something else. Sorry.

I'm homeschooling at the same time.

It's not recess at homeschool? All right, here we go. At least they can cancel parent-teacher conferences this year, if nothing else. One of the things that I found is helpful for people in sort of thinking through where the value is, is— and I talked to, mentioned it to Freddie earlier— but if you break down what you're hoping people get from your content at an individual level. So for example, if I use Freddie as an example, so I might learn for me to be a better listener and a collaborator. Some would argue that that's a need that is something I should jump on quickly. So that would be one piece. The next level of that application would be Well, what about a team? You know, how do I, how do I help my team be better listeners or collaborators? And then the next level above that is beyond the team at the organizational or enterprise level. How would I put about tools and systems and processes to make the enterprise or the organization that I lead better at listening or collaboration? I think it just forces you to think differently and figure out there are things that we can do one-on-one at an individual level. There are things that work differently in a team because now you add this peer-to-peer dynamic when we all go through an experience together, you know, and then there are things that are organizational. So I think if you, you have those 3 outcomes, you know, those 3— not outcomes, but levels of application— and then think about the outcomes for each, because I would argue that a team that is a better listening and more collaborative team is probably more productive, is probably more engaged. You probably have higher retention because that would be a fun team to be on versus others. So Anybody want to throw anything on that? I see some stuff going on in the chat that I wasn't following. Anybody want to add a thought to that?

Cool.

Let's see, what other questions do we have?

Freddie raised his hand.

Oh, I missed Freddie.

I mean, there's a thought, you know, When you asked me to initially talk about the kind of the mojo of what we're doing here with lifeintune.com, which is the website, it's really built around listening. And I wanted to share a win that completely knocked me out of the water about a week ago with all of you. I work with a lot of the different speakers bureaus, and I imagine many of you also do, from You know, Washington Speakers Bureau, Eagles, Big Speak, all those different people, right? And I've been working with them for many, many years. And I was very surprised to get a call last week to check my availability to do a virtual conference. But it wasn't with a Zoom call. They asked me if I could perform on the piano and do what I do speaking and then go to the keyboard. Because people are seeking something beyond just us talking, even though our knowledge is phenomenal. And I would love to be able to tap into everybody I see on this call and learn the incredible wisdom that is coming out of everyone. The delivery of wisdom is tricky because if everyone is looking at talking heads. you know, in Zoom calls all day long, almost the last thing they want to do is sign up for yet another webinar, right? Yeah.

I mean, let's be—

let's just be authentic about this, right? Let's just be really real about this, right? It has a lot of beauty to it, but it's also a bit like, God, do we have— I mean, I'm doing my 7th Zoom call today, right? I mean, there's a lot of that going on right now. So I— they asked me how I would deliver what I do, and I says, well, I have a small studio. where I could deliver this with a built-in keyboard and do this. And they go, Freddie, do you have another environment that you could deliver this in? And something happened that I want to share with all of you that I was not even thinking of. But because the job offer came and because they actually gave me a date and actually gave me a price tag of what it was valued at, which was significant, I thought, okay, let me show you what I got. In another corner of my home, I have two— I have two studios, and my second studio I call the piano room. And I happen to have this crazy piano. It's a 9.5-foot Bösendorfer concert grand piano that I used to record on Carlos Santana's last record, and I use it for many other projects. And I showed him this room with the piano in it, and he said, Freddy, can you set up the room where you could actually do this virtual keynote utilizing this big piano and use the microphones that actually move the air of the room like I was performing live. I mean, well, I am performing live because people don't want to hear— they don't want to see software with a keyboard on a screen.

Yeah.

They don't want that.

They want to see the real deal. So I did a 1-minute— they asked me if I'd do a 1-minute shout out to the meeting planner. So I did a 1-minute shout out. The client is in the financial services world. They're based in Baltimore. It's 4 different events. Each event is a virtual event. Each event has 40 of their employees that are looking for something to wake them up and take them out of fear mode. And I forgot who it was. Maybe it was Donna who said people are running around with their hair on fire. Right? We got to give people a break from running around with their hair on fire. We got to give them something to do.

I love it. Let me ask you a follow-up, Freddie.

That's what I wanted to just share with everybody, that I'm going to be doing some of these engagements as a refresh.

I love it. So let me ask you a follow-up, Freddie. So in the pre-COVID world, when a speaker was offered a remote thing, a Zoom thing, a webinar thing, Very, very, very, very, very, very rarely was it equal to your fee, whatever your fee is, whether you're a $5,000 speaker or $50,000 speaker. It was usually a fraction of it. Without getting into your nitty-gritty, it smells to me like you were able to capture most of the value of— is that true?

I was. I was able to capture most of the value because for the longest time, and I'll share a few things with everyone here, I mean, you probably There are just a handful of people that are doing what I'm doing. Some of you may know the work of Benjamin Zander out of Boston.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

I see, I see some people nodding their heads. There is another guy named Eric Wahl, W-A-H-L. He's a, he's a painter.

Yep.

And he basically talks about the process of painting and connecting that to innovation and thinking outside the box. I come from the world of jazz, so I'm always talking about improvisation and those kinds of things. So we're— I would, I would call them keynote speaking and artists together.

Yeah.

And any way that you can bring out the artistry side of anything you all do, anything. I mean, even if you play 3 chords on the guitar and you walk up to your camera and you play those 3 chords and you talk about Wow, I'm not used to this, but we're in an age where we're doing things that we're not used to. Let's talk about it. And you put down the guitar. Everyone who saw you do that will remember, you know, this guy started off a Zoom call in a way I've never seen before. And they'll remember you because, you know—

I'm wondering, Freddie—

How do we stay out of the sea of sameness? That's really—

I'm just wondering, Freddie, so most of us are not you, right, in terms of our musical talents, and most of us don't have this amazing piano and stuff. So I'm just thinking like, for each of us to think about what is a— Michael is— okay, Michael's raising his hand. We'll get you in a minute.

See you, Michael. Thank you for joining.

Oh, you're leaving. Okay.

Sorry, Michael. So most of us don't have that, you know, don't have Eric Wahl's artistry or musical talent. Is what you're suggesting to say, you know, one of the talents that you have, you know, maybe integrating that in, into your work, right? Because that's an interesting You know, are people more open to get to the humanity of others and say, oh, you know, James, for example, isn't just my executive coach, but he's a ventriloquist. I don't know if he's a ventriloquist, but maybe he'd want to share some of that with us or whatever. I don't know. I just put it out there as a question. And Todd, you just went to the ballgame. What happened? That's very cool. Don't change backgrounds on a guy with ADD.

Not fair. I was going to say, changing your background, that's a little fun element in creativity. Tell them in New York. So a little identity thing going on.

Cool.

Gail, you had something and then Scott.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just want to say that we all have to use what Freddie said was so critical because many of us don't even realize it. It's going to take creativity for us to make the shift. And a lot of times what happens when we're dealing so much within the adult world, we forget about the children.

Ah, there we go.

There go puppets.

I created these puppets, and now I can go online with these things and teach, wash your hands and face.

Remember, stay social distancing.

Which I'm getting ready to do. So, you know, you have to use— and this was something in a bag in my back closet. But what's happened is we're focusing on adults. As I said, I do adults all the time. But now the shift for me is that I just wrote 2 children's books and I had a request. They're going to put my, my video Storytime with Dr. Gail across the nation for me in the next day or two, because— and that's going to open up a door for me to do— get into more adult places with parenting and those type of things. So, you know, we have to use our creativity, and it's okay. And Deborah, thank you for your comments about being extroverted. All of my friends are introverts, and they help to keep me balanced. So thank you so much for that.

Scott, you had something. Scott, and then Bruce.

I am—

first of all, it's, it's a real— this is picking me up massively. Thank you all for your energy, enthusiasm, and thank you, Bill, for inviting me along. We got to meet a few years ago at a castle in Poland. I mean, I just wanted to reflect on a concept. It might be— it might not be news to anyone, but just in case, you know, what Freddie was saying there, I think, highlights a few important things and also something that I wonder if there's a supposition that you've made, Freddie, that might not be accurate, which is, you know, Bill was saying everyone's rushed to, you know, throw out content. The next thing that everyone has rushed to do, of course, is to do webinars. I rushed to that wagon as well before I kind of thankfully had a last-minute U-turn. And on those webinars, they are typically broadcast machines, right? I was just at one earlier on, and even though it's on Zoom, you see 3 panelists and then you see no one else. The most interaction that you get is to put something into a chat. Typically, if the person who's presenting this is a popular thought leader, you have hundreds of people lavishing cries for help in a— almost in a biblical proportion, you know, help us, Savior, what should we do? Which always makes me a little bit uncomfortable, I have to say. So I think that really, actually, a Zoom call like this is actually rare for most people. Most people are looking— they're either having a one-on-one call with a team member or they're having these webinars. When it comes, therefore, to them receiving something educational or directional or supportive that can improve their state, and it's not coming from their leader, and bearing in mind that many team leaders, of course, are not quite sure about what to do now anyway, They're getting it in a one-way manner, directive, rather than the way that we need it right now, particularly, you know, looking at situational leadership, is we're in a place of low direct— low certainty and low confidence, so we need coaching, right? That's the thing that we'd say we need, and they're not getting that. So I think there's, first of all, a thing that actually for many people, just a context like this would be a joy to them, the chance to get some coaching. We need more of this. in my opinion, than there is at the moment. I think the second thing, just to comment on the way that, you know, we're talking about the piano and stuff, is like you, I've been asked to do lots of online speaking now as part of my income and my work. And I think you're right that the burden does now lie upon us to think of inventive ways to stimulate people. I think the important reason why— please, forgive me if it's obvious— No, no, no. But quite simply, the way that people are engaged to remember and learn is because their sensations are activated, right? They're physically aroused in some way. Computers are hard for us to do that through because they're so small and their sound is limited. So we have to do things that do engage people richly. Of course, each of us have different ways in which we would be able to do that. What's fascinating is one of the ways that we can achieve that the best is by doing something novel or unexpected. And one of the most powerful ways that I've seen commonly put out, as shown most clearly by the masterclass, you know, those masterclasses that are going around, is people love to see backstage as frontstage. There is something so sensationally arousing for us to see behind the scenes.

Yeah.

So, so for those of us who don't have a grand piano or other musical ability, we can just by showing somebody something behind the scenes, behind, you know, do look at the man behind the curtain, is a very simple way of creating a sensation in someone that's also very personal.

Yeah.

Which again then stimulates the correct neurochemistry for people to actually be able to receive new ideas because now you've got the dopamine kicking in, adrenaline and things accordingly, I think.

Like Shannon did with her son. Like she just did, Shannon did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fascinating to see.

Yes.

So I'd like to build on something that you just said, Scott. And I've been thinking about this through conversation, starting from a number of pieces. I go back to a book that I read, Stephen Kotler's The Rise of Superman. And It answers a question of things of why do people seek events? Why do we go to sporting events? Why do we watch athletes perform? And what could we learn in the world of work from that drive? The answer in that question is people are seeking to watch people in flow state. And so a musician, clearly we're paying money to watch someone in flow state. A top athlete, whether they're a basketball player or baseball player, whatever sport you want to choose, they're in flow state. They're making the impossible shot, right? Okay. Zoom is very difficult to connect, and I think what Freddie has shared, and some of that is how do you create that experience? Scott also pointed that too, of do we bring them behind stage? What I've heard today, and we focused more on the live side of this rather than taking the content into the digital world and giving the content a life on its own. Conversation maybe for a different time. But if you have content that's live, how do you make it human? How do you reveal yourself in flow state so that people feel that infectious enthusiasm and they lean in? Because the last thing I think we can all agree on is nobody wants a talking head Zoom call for 2 hours. That's, that's torture. And we're all hostages, you know, trapped inside our little offices, right?

Yep.

So engagement and energy. Peter?

Yeah, thanks, Bill. So, um, this was a lot of fun. So we're gonna keep doing these, um, indefinitely, the same time, uh, uh, uh, next Tuesday. And we'll come up with themes. If you guys have suggestions for themes, hit us. Um, as, as I think was exemplified on this call, um, it's not about just Bill and I, you know, spouting off. I mean, I love Freddie. Thank you so much for your contributions and your take and, uh, Todd and every— I mean, Deborah. Can't forget the introverts. I don't want to point you out. I'm not even looking. But this is, you know, the whole deal is to just, you know, collaborate. I encourage you to look each other up. Everybody's on LinkedIn. We'll share emails with folks. I think there's— I don't even know what, but my instincts are there's the seeds of some amazing projects that we can look back on in a year or two that started at some of these things. And if we could have had no other role than to bring it together. That's, that's amazing. Um, there's a lot of— again, I only know about, I think, about half. There's a lot of amazing, amazing, amazing talent on this call. And, uh, I think what we realize is everybody's going through the same stuff. Uh, everybody's open to helping each other. Everybody needs a little connection, you know, social distance, you know. Um, and, uh, I thank you all for just coming and, uh, sharing what you got. So thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Peter, for making it happen.

Thank you, Peter.

Thank you.

Be well.

Thanks, Peter.

Thanks.

And Todd, it's not it's it's not Fenway, so you get to come back.

Thank you.

Go Yanks! See you guys next time.

Thank you. All right. Bye.

Thank you, Peter.

Much appreciated for hosting, Peter. Thank you. Bye bye.

Bye.