After 4 Years of Fatherhood, He Discovered the Unthinkable (from a DSO Live Stream)

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. This isn't normally what I do on these live streams, but I wanted to bring this to your attention, and I wanted to see what you guys in, in in the chat, in the comments, have to say about this. This is interesting. This comes from Stuart, and the subject line was Caught Wife Cheating, uh-oh, and I found out that our 4-year-old daughter isn't mine. He says, he says, I caught my wife cheating with a man 25 years older than me. He saw their text messages. He says, um, she claimed— the wife claimed that it's been going on for 6 months. Only. But I also found out that my youngest 4-year-old is not mine, but it's this older guy's. It's his. Um, I'm really messed up right now. I can imagine. I want to stay and work it out for my kids. Oof. And I still love her. Oof. Scared to be alone. That's everything, isn't it? And I start all over and start all over at this age, as if this is some really old age or something. The guy's 38 years of age. He says, what should I do? I'm not trying to belittle what it is he went through. Um, but, um, that's really young, Stuart, if you're watching this. And I'll make a video out of this, but, um, I mean, can you imagine? Is there anything more hurtful, distressing, stressful? That a man is, number one, discovered that his wife is sneaking around on him. That sucks. And then number two, hey, you know that 4-year-old that you love more than anything in the world? That kid, biologically not yours. It's the affair partners. I mean, 1-2-3 punch. That's what a combo. I can't imagine. What do you guys think about that? What would you do in that case? He is in obviously a state of distress, Stuart is, because he wants to work on the relationship. He's like, I still love this woman. I don't want to lose my family. Let's work this out. When all of us people that are emotionally removed from the situation and looking at it, you know, from the 30,000-foot view, which I always say that perspective has value because it's— we're not clouded by the judgment of all the emotion, everything. We're just like looking at this as a very rational thing. And all of us are probably saying, leave that woman, Stewart, like tomorrow. Um, this— the woman's got— the woman has been, um, doing what is arguably the most— how to say this— as far as betrayal is concerned, like, she took the gold medal. Fathering— not fathering, but you know what I mean. She has mothered another child with another man outside of your relationship and has then passed that off as your child for you to raise. This taps into something really like primal in men to hear something like this. It taps into a lot of really deep, dark energy and emotion within a man that's this can go really scary in a hurry for a lot of guys. And it sounds like your version of this is to hang on tighter to this woman who, um, I'm afraid, Stuart, um, it's— if you stick around with this woman, um, it's not going to go well for you. And you are in essence advertising your intense feeling of scarcity within you and in your life. And you just said this point blank. I'm scared to be alone. And I'm scared of what it means to start over at this ripe old age of 38 years of age. I'm laughing because I, you know, I talked to guys that are like in their 60s that go through something not like the kid and all this other stuff, but wife cheats, leaves them, or wife just says, I'm done with you, dude. And they start over and they realize, oh, wow. You know, I'm 65 years of age, this is actually going well. I got a 50-some-year-old girlfriend now and we get along great and everything's wonderful. I have a healthy sex life. I haven't experienced that in so many years. On and on. And here you are, 38, worried about starting over. And there are guys just laughing their butts off right now listening to this because they're like, I would die to be 38 years of age and start over, as opposed to add 30, 40 years onto that. So if that's a concern, we can just set that aside and say that's silly. 38, you're super young, forget it. Um, but you obviously don't like yourself a whole heck of a lot, Stuart. And you got— it's not a coincidence that you don't like yourself very much and you have a very real sense of scarcity within yourself, and then you in turn got with a gal like this. The two always seem to go hand in hand, don't they? And that's sad. And, uh, you— what you need to do is just kind of extricate yourself from the situation, I guess. Step back. Wife, we need time apart. Ex-wife, let's be honest, you did something really, really bad. I can't be with a person like this because I like myself too much. That's a very Rational, reasonable, mentally healthy thing to say. Now, you're not there. How do we get you there? Time apart, working with other men, whether it's our group or groups like it. You need to surround yourself with healthy guys, friends, friends and mentors. Been there, done that. That would be ideal. Check out our group. I have it on the bottom there. HelpForMen.com/join. HelpForMen.com/join. I'm going to put it in the comments here for the guys so you can just click on it. Stewart and others, anybody going through something similar, similar to this, you need to get some help with this. This isn't something that you can just take on by yourself and just go, oh well, it'll pass, I'll be fine. You're about to endure, Stewart and others, going through something like this a lot. It's, it's a roller coaster ride, man. It's scary stuff. And it's— don't be ashamed to say help. And the whole other complication of this, and this is frankly, I don't even know if this is something we want to address right at this point, but it's gonna have to be addressed at some point, which is The kiddo, 4 years old, biologically not yours, but emotionally, obviously, probably very much attached. You're probably like, no, that's my daughter. I don't care who fathered whatever, that's my daughter. But legally, who has right to what, I don't know, man. That's a whole other wrinkle. But that's, that's going to cause you just a whole bunch of drama here, I'm afraid. You're going to need help with all of it. So check out help4men.com. Go to Brotherhood in the menu, or just go right to help4men.com/join to learn about joining us. We have a group of hundreds of guys standing by ready to help you out, brother, help you get through this. It's gonna be tough. And then David says his wife cheated on him and it hurt so bad, but at least there was no doubt about paternity. Like you're saying, David, like at least I didn't put up with that shit, which is terrible to say, but to poor guy like Stuart. But yeah, that's the ultimate kick in the balls, isn't it? Nick says complacency isn't an excuse to stay with her, nor is the bad example that you're setting for the 4-year-old. Listen, he says. Nick is up on a soapbox. Listen, Stuart, life is very short, he says, all caps. Yes, this hurts, and yes, it sucks for you, but you can really— can you really ever trust her again? We all know, no, you can't. Can you live with what she's done when you're alone at home and she's out somewhere? Exactly. Any way you look at this, going forward with this woman is a— it's a no-go. Doesn't mean you can't still love her in a way. I mean, you married the woman, all this other stuff. She betrayed you, but there's still a— she still holds a place in your heart for sure, but not as your long-term life partner, if you will, or whatever you want to call them— spouse, lover, romantic partner. She lost that job, dude. Um, uh, take back your life, Stuart. Move on, he says. Go create the life that you want. Um, and he says he's 50 years of age and he started over, and you will live, trust me. Yeah. Um, and then David says, why isn't there, uh, mandatory paternity testing at the hospital at birth? I don't know. Um, a conspiratorial person would say because that may result in a lot of kids that the state is responsible for taking care of. A lot, probably not. Um, the, uh, the rate of paternity fraud, if you will, which is, hey, this is your kid and it's not, it's not as common as what a lot of men think. There is this erroneous thought of— and you see this number spread all over the internet— that 30% of the time the kid is not— doesn't belong to the guy who, you know, how to say this, those men out there, men out there are fathering kids that aren't theirs or taking care of kids that they think are theirs but they're not. And that happens 30% of the time is what people are saying. And that's not true. Statistically, if you look it up, no. What is true and what gives that impression is of the people that drag these kids into paternity clinics and say, hey, I got a suspicion that something's going on here, and for the following reasons, I, I need to have this kid tested— of those people, it's like 30% of the time the kid's not theirs. So it's kind of like saying, um, you know, if you suspect like you got a kid that's on drugs or something and you drag that kid into a drug clinic, you you have very real reason to suspect based on their behavior and everything else, and you take them to the drug clinic and half the time the kid's on drugs, well then we say, oh my gosh, all— half of all kids must be on drugs then. No, of the people that drag their kids to these paternity clinics and they're going through divorce and there's, there's been infidelity in the past, of all those people and all that trauma involved, like 30% of the time it's the kid doesn't belong to the dad. Um, the actual numbers that we have, and we can look at like genetic data and other things, the actual rate of paternity fraud, if you will, is like really low, which should be a load off a lot of guys. It's like 1 to 2% is the number that we see. But, you know, 30,000-foot view, yeah, I can take 100 people, of those 100 people, and that's not many, put 100 people in a room, I'm going to say 1 to 2 of you are fathering or taking care of kids that aren't yours and you don't know it. It's like, holy shit. So it's still, it's troubling, but it's not, no, no, 30% troubling, that's for sure. Um, oh, I know. And then David says, yeah, it seems like the trauma of learning that, you know, that you're bonding with a kid for years and then finding out it's not yours, that's got to be really, really tough. I agree. Poor Stuart. I can't imagine what he's going to go through. It's going to be tough, buddy. You're going to need a lot of help going through it. Um, uh, you know, I, I'm trying to think, do I know of somebody who's gone through something similar? And I don't in my personal life. I've heard of other people going through that, other men going through that, like second, third hand, and then they end up raising the child as their own. And the child is like, has no idea. Both parents know. All they— all the kid knows is my parents divorced at an early age, yada yada, this is my dad. What he or she doesn't know is dad's not really my biological dad. It's some dude out in California somewhere or something like that. I'm sure, you know, within my community that's not unheard of, but I don't know any personally that I can, you know, rattle off the top of my head. But Stuart and others, anybody going through anything like that, anybody— I'm gonna, you know, cut this into a video later, I'm sure. But if you're watching this, you know, it's something that's— boy, it's got to be heavy to work on. To live with, rather. Infidelity by itself, betrayal by itself is a whole level of trauma. And I don't throw around that word lightly. It's a real thing to endure the trauma, the emotional, mental trauma of that. And to get over that, you experience very real, almost PTSD type of symptoms. So layer on top of that the paternity fraud thing, and you're gonna need some help. So anybody listening to this, help4men.com, Go to the Brotherhood. It's a support community for guys that need help with whatever's going on in their life. And whatever you're thinking of, whatever you've endured, I guarantee you got somebody in the group, multiple somebodies, who've been through the same thing that can help you out. So, uh, Mr. Stewart, I hope we see you there. Um, and then David says, how do these women live with themselves doing that? Um, you know, I— how do, um, people that do horrible things to people in general live with it? I think a lot of people are very good at compartmentalizing. They do horrible, terrible things they know would be very hurtful to others if discovered, but they keep on doing it anyway. Why? Compulsion, addictive tendencies, obsessive tendencies, narcissistic tendencies. Uh, there's just a lot of really broken people out there doing a lot of stuff to hurt really good people. It's the way it's always been. And, uh, it— not to victim blame, But I always tell people, no, you don't give those people a second chance. You get the hell away from them as quickly as possible. You say, been nice knowing you. We had a good chapter of our life. It ended horribly, but goodbye. And then you do the work of looking at yourself to go, what is it about me that got with somebody? Why did I get with somebody like that? And why did I continue to hang on to somebody like that? Because usually, usually, I don't know, 9 times out of 10, it's like, um, This isn't their first rodeo as far as bad shit that's gone on in this relationship. It's usually not to that degree, you know, infidelity, paternity fraud, all this other stuff. But there was several dozen things along the way that made them go, whoa, that's no good. But they just look past it and look past it. And like, why? What is it about you? If this, you know, if you're nodding and listening to this, what is it about you that causes you to connect with and stick with a person like this? Like, what is it with Stuart that his initial reaction is, "Must save family, I love this woman, please don't leave me," when he found out she's cheating, lied about cheating, and the kid's not his? The ultimate, that would just, a lot of people would get in a car and drive off to parts unknown, never to be seen again type of thing. Next thing you know, they're living in the woods by themselves with a dog, just saying, "To hell with society, I'm done here." Stuart, on the other hand, that's a bad reaction. Stuart, on the other hand, is like the polar opposite, which is hang on even tighter. Not good. What is it about him that caused him to do that? That's something to explore, Stuart and others. And then Nick says, the old saying still rings true: hurt people hurt people. Yeah, you're exactly right. And a lot of men don't like it when I say something to the effect of, you know why your woman cheated on you? It's because she's a broken little girl. That's why she cheated on you and continued to do all this very dysfunctional, crazy shit to continue to hurt you and the family and everything else. Yeah, she's just a hurt little girl. And guys are like making excuses. No, I'm not making excuses. I'm trying to analyze and figure out why in the hell a seemingly normal human did that. Oh, that's right, because they're not normal. They're, they're broken person, and it all originated from their childhood. But still, you got to get the hell away from them. And, and it's valuable to know all that analytical stuff so you can avoid doing it again in the future. That's basically it. We don't want to do that all over again and again and again and again. Because guess what, guys? If you don't do that analysis and that sitting down and figuring out what's going on in your head, if you don't do that, you'll end up— Stuart here, if he doesn't get to the bottom what's going on, probably he and his wife are not going to stick around together, hopefully. And he's going to be out on the market and he's going to be desperate to fill that niche, that, that niche, that, that hole, that void in him. He's going to fill that with another human being, and invariably it's going to be another broken one, um, because no healthy person would just slide into that spot. They'd be like, what happened to you? How long ago? Oh, it's only been like days. Yeah, get back to me a few years from now, buddy. You know, best of luck to you. But an unhealthy person says, can I move in tomorrow? And then Stuart there is like, "Yahoo! Yay! And everything's great again!" It's like, "Oh Christ, I've seen that a few hundred times." And then David says, "Yeah, he's in the fear stage of clinging to what feels safe. That's the key right there. It's basically wishing it never happened. He's been there." Yeah, but, you know, why does something so chaotic and so awful feel safe to him? It's familiar. A lot of people want to stick with the familiar, even if it's deadly, even if it's detrimental to their health and well-being. But at least they know what's going to happen tomorrow, right? At least they don't have to face the unknown. That's very, very scary for people like Stuart, to face the unknown. He's— you can tell by virtue of what he— how he's described himself, like, I have to start over at 38, I'm afraid of being alone. He doesn't like himself very much, so he's going to avoid facing that side of himself if at all possible, even if it means sticking by a woman, even if it means raising some other person's kid and pretending it's his and the whole nine yards. Oof, scary stuff. Really deep stuff, really, um, troubling stuff, that's for sure.