Coach Scott G. Interviews DSO Fraternity Member Andrew And His Wife Sabrina

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Welcome to another hour of Teflon and Titanium. I'm your host, Scotty G, Coach Scott G of the organization Dad Starting Over, a worldwide organization helping dudes be better dudes. I'm one of the 9 coaches that are involved in this organization, and I have a special guest with us today. 2 of them, as a matter of fact. So I have Andrew here and his wife Sabrina. Say hi.

Hey everybody.

All right. So the reason why I called y'all is they have a very, very good story. Andrew, obviously, he joined an organization for guys to be better dudes for a reason. Obviously. Okay, we're going to get into their stories, get into the backgrounds, um, and first thing I want to do is have you both introduce yourself a little bit. What's your background? What do you do? When'd you get married? Any kiddos?

Sure, um, grew up moving around the country, settled in North Texas. Family built a big horse ranch. Kind of evolved through that, started riding, you know, bareback horses, went to college with that, and then started showing horses with the family ranch and kind of switched from, from riding bucking horses over to showing horses. Sabrina had grown up, you know, with her parents. Her parents were horse trainers all of her life, and so we both showed discipline. And so we met in Fort Worth at the stock show showing horses against each other in January of 2001. And she's kind of gone all the, you know, we've been together ever since then. And then, you know, father passed away, sold the ranch, went a different direction in life, went back to school, got my accounting degree. I'm CPA now, CFO of an oil and gas company. And Sabrina has still stuck with the horses. And trains now, very successful. We have a daughter that's 12 years old that is a— well, she was gymnastics and now she's into competitive cheer, so she's very, very successful with that. And what do you have to add?

Stay-at-home mom that does train horses.

Hardly. Yeah, stay-at-home mom, but works harder than I ever thought about.

So yeah, she's a power stay-at-home mom. So you train horses? So, and you do that for a living, correct?

Well, yeah, it pays.

Mm-hmm.

She's being humble.

Yeah.

Yeah. Horses pay for sure. Horses are expensive, obviously.

So for to get to earn.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So when did you get married? How long have you been married?

July of '05. So pushing close to 18 years.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Which is interesting because y'all got married 3 months after I did. So very, very similar. And it's been a— as a marriage that goes that long, you're going to have ups and downs. And that's really what we want to focus on here. Correct. So, so I want to talk about just the first thing, kind of where you guys come from. Okay. And I'll have Andrew start. Just kind of your background, just a little bit of kind of tell us how you grew up. And then we'll go to Sabrina.

So my father was a very successful accountant in his own right, CPA, turnaround specialist for major life insurance companies. So we were moving every 4 to 5 years as he'd go into another company as a CFO and do a turnaround and kind of bring it out of bankruptcy or whatever state it was in. So extremely successful, worked tons and tons of hours, and it definitely got my work ethic from him. Um, that evolved into, you know, super high stress, uh, which then led him to alcohol. Um, and so just a brilliant, brilliant man, but heavy drinker, never took care of his health. Uh, I think as we discussed earlier, um, I never saw what you would consider a loving marriage and relationship between he and my mom. They always stayed together, but with him being gone all the time, he was a great influence on how to work hard. And when he was home, we spent time together and he taught me things. But other than that, it was kind of raised by my mom. And after he passed, I went back to school because I had figured out with the ranch that I had his head for numbers. So that's how I kind of fell away from the ranch stuff into the accounting stuff now. And I've kind of worked myself up to not necessarily where he was, but I am in that top position as far as executive level management in, you know, what I specialized in accounting as far as oil and gas. So I think that goes next.

Do I go from the deep of my grandmother?

Yeah, you can.

I grew up in, um, up north. For a few, my first 7 years with my grandparents. My mom and dad, they had a training up there, horse facility, and dad left. Mom was pregnant with me. I didn't even discuss this with you. I didn't even think about it. And so I lived with my grandmother and grandfather for my first 7 years. My mom came down to Texas and followed my dad around, and then all of a sudden she decided that, oh, she wanted a perfect family, so she ripped me out from them. So that's how I got to Texas. Just working for them as a kid. I was basically a horse trainer's daughter, so I did all the other stuff, feeding, everything. Shoot. Then finally I got out of that around 19, met him, and then— Yeah, I skipped a part, but anyway. The horse show. And then after a year, I started working for their ranch training horses. And then everything dispersed. I went back to school and got interior— well, not interior design, but home furnishing merchandising with a business minor, and did that for a few years. Loved it. But horses is my passion. And here we are when we moved where we are now, here it all started again. So, yep.

So how'd y'all meet that Well, that's funny.

I stalked him. Yeah, I've had a lot of people picking on me about not introducing myself, but I was very shy and I knew what caliber he was in the horse industry and thought there is no way in hell, to be honest. And, um, he had a good ride one day and I turned around and said, good ride, real quick and went, and he stopped and At that point, he gave me a business card, wrote his name on the back, and how it worked, the next day we had a date and I had to break up with an ex-boyfriend before that.

So I understood it was a little bit more serious than that.

Turn around, ex-fiancé.

There you go. Okay, now you got it.

Well, and so we had seen each other at horse shows for almost a year, and I always remember going, that's a really cute blonde and she is just my type. But she had a ring on, so I never went there.

There you go.

Um, there was a few times I took it off at horse shows just because I mean him. That was how stalker I was.

Yeah.

And that's what happened at Fort Worth. Yeah, I'd seen her, she was hovering, um, didn't have a ring on, and I thought, well, today, today might be the day. And like, like she said, she was I think she was watching for where I was going and kind of made a beeline to cut me off to be able to talk to me. There's no reason she'd be going down the same set of stalls that I was, but that's how it happened. And then, uh, yeah, she, she picked me up, or she made the first move, I guess I should say, and then I just took it from there.

It's funny that you, uh, you're arguing about this because my wife and I actually argue about how, um, how it happened for us too, you know. We better bumping into each other on the dance floor. It was a school function, and I made the moves immediately. And so we got broke up by friends, and I went over to a dinner table, and my wife didn't know who I was, and all of her friends did. So they were like, you know, she's like, who was that? And she's like, that's Scott. Everybody knows Scott, you know? And she was just like, okay. So like 5 minutes later, she comes over there and she's asked me to you know, if anybody wants to dance. And I was just like, okay, I'll take my cue. And she's my wife. So anyway, I know how that goes. And it's fun. It's fun banter to talk about stuff like that. But I made the move first. So just so she knows. So now I understood that Andrew, you did some rodeo though, correct?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tell me about that.

It was just, you know, moving back to Texas, in North Texas. So we didn't go through this, but I was a lacrosse player back east. We lived about an hour west of Baltimore.

Okay.

And I played lacrosse and I started defense. I started varsity defense my freshman year and I never came off the field. And so like, they were getting ready to move for my dad's job my junior year in high school, and it was kind of one of those deals where there was families coming to our family saying, let him live with us for the next year and a half so he can continue to play lacrosse and have a career. And, you know, of course my family wasn't going to split the family up, and Dad came down here and was looking at places, and he actually sat down with me and showed me different places he found. And I mean 16 years old, I said, well, if we get this place, I'll go, no problem. So he got that place and never— I never looked back. But when I got here, there's no lacrosse in DFW. So, um, started— I made a bunch of friends with all the country kids and the rodeo kids at school. And so they're like, hey, come on. And, uh, so I started jumping on bareback horses and, and had fun with it and, um, eventually got decent enough that, that K-State, you know, I went up to look at K-State and talked to the coach there, and he's like, come on, you know, we'll give you some stuff to make it worth it. So went up there and rode bucking horses for K-State for 3 years or so until, you know, changed over, uh, with the reining horses here at home. And so I'd leave up there on the weekends and drive to the reining horse shows and started winning more money doing that than I was riding bucking horses. So it was just kind of— and it didn't hurt near as bad, so kind of made that, made that. And I think I was kind of going through a lull, uh, in, in my being able to cover horses. I was kind of getting bucked off a lot, so it was just kind of an easy transition.

Okay, so what I wanted to do there real quick, I just wanted to illustrate the fact that Andrew— Andrew's an interesting dude. Okay, this, this— we, we are real big in our organization about the, the lover and provider roles. Okay, so Sabrina, if you just— if you were listening, she was engaged and she was going after Andrew. So Sabrina was with a safe, safe guy, were you not?

I was, and he was, he was safe. And well, we're talking about the other guy.

Yeah, yeah, the, the other dude.

And he— but he was lazy. Like, he didn't— the, the final straw, I'll be honest, was when I had to go take care of— we had like 30 horses under training and everything, and I had go put blankets and do all that kind of stuff at night. It's night watch. And he was like, I don't know why you're doing this. This is just— and he was just complaining. I'm like, that's it. I mean, like, if you're going to be that way, we're— this is not going to work.

Yeah. So he's not interesting, he's not driven. You have all of those things that, that stuff matters. Yes, fellas, if you're listening to me, and ladies, that makes a difference too. Those are huge red flags that you need to look out for with men. If they're not driven, if they don't have motivation, that's not sexy, you know. That is not sexy. And Andrew is sexy, okay? He's very sexy when you all meet. Um, he's into horses. I mean, you're clicking all those boxes. I mean, I don't know the— I mean, Andrew sounds like he clicked all your boxes.

He did.

I mean, they would have breeding mornings, not for horses, for horses, but yeah, super early in the morning. And I would— I thought that was the most awesome thing for him to do, that, that just click the bucket too.

I mean, you know, just certain things like driven, for sure, super sexy, for sure. That's, that's kind of what I was getting at with that whole thing there. Okay, um, my family's into horses, uh, my mom's side of the family big into horses. I know horse girls, they— once a horse girl, always a horse girl. There's— you don't, you don't get that out of her. Okay, that just doesn't happen. And, uh, and it is a trend in our, in our group to see horse horse people come into our group with problems, and it's typically because the dude is not a horse guy. Okay, mom or wifey is— she's a horse gal and he's not into it, and that is going to cause some serious problems, which actually we're going to get to that. All right, so, okay, so dating was hot and heavy, I'm assuming things were good.

Your weekend?

Yep. She thought it'd be 3, 4, 5 days before she heard from me. I called her the next day.

Yeah, he was different.

I started experiencing that immediately.

So what made her different? I'm curious, uh, Andrew, what did it make— what makes Sabrina different?

Self-differently, she was genuinely interested in me, and I could tell it wasn't fake. It wasn't interest in me for, for what I had or what I could provide for her. It was just it felt real.

Did her work ethic have anything to do with the attraction that you had towards her?

Didn't, didn't know about that yet, you know, when we first met. That was something that, you know, came along the way. Um, you know, you had to assume it was there, but, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of rich horse girls that don't do shit either. You know, they got people that they pay to do everything for them, and of course we've been around all that too and seen all that. So it was more of a I gotta get to know her first, but she was just different.

So absolutely. So she clicked all your boxes too. I mean, obviously she's a beautiful woman, you know, but there's— you at the time when you met Sabrina obviously had a lot of options. It sounds to me like you're a pretty attractive guy, had a lot of going on, um, probably had a lot of— kind of had a lot of orbiters, I'm assuming, right?

I did.

Yeah, a whole lot.

And it took, it took a while to, you know, and I'm sure we'll get into that, but it took a while to get rid of those. And that caused a lot of issues from the very start.

Yeah.

Till recently hung over us forever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I said, we'll get there. So obviously things are great. Then comes talking about marriage. I mean, did anything change at that point when y'all got married?

I would say no. Um, you know, I always messed up me. I had always said, because we, we continue to have problems because girls would just wouldn't give up. Um, and like, I, I was always worried about, you know, my family's name and the ranch name in the industry, and I didn't want to do anything to spoil that. So I thought, you know, if I, if I break some girl's heart and don't let her off easy, or, you know, just cut her off and be rude and mean and hateful, then that was going to create a bad name in some way that somewhere, somewhere down the line could affect the, the family business as far as the ranch goes. And so shame on me, I didn't cut them off like I should, um, and I was trying to manage that. But then in my simple brain My deal was the minute I propose and we're engaged, then that's it. Everything, nothing else matters. Everything else is cut off. And she just obviously, and for obvious reasons, didn't believe that or couldn't believe that, you know, because I didn't give her any reason to. But, you know, it, it did work that way, but there was just too too many years of turmoil and just things built up to where she kind of didn't like me a whole lot.

So, Sabrina, tell me about that.

Yeah, he was 100%. And I always was, you know, girls, we're emotional and we think of the fairy tales and all that stuff. And when He didn't propose till after his father had passed, after the ranch was selling, after all of this. And I'm like, so I felt almost a little bit like, okay, well, I'm his last option. I don't even think he knows that. Maybe he does, but that's really— we've got that. So when he asked me, I was like, uh-huh. And that was it. Yeah, literally what I said. And that's not how I ever—

wasn't how I imagined it either.

No, interesting.

I elaborate.

Like, this is off to the ground.

This is not good.

Yeah, you're resentful already before you even got the ring. That's interesting.

100%.

Yep. Now, one thing about a marriage when it comes to dudes, um, I just want to get this across for people that are listening. It's just natural when you put the ring on the finger that your wife or your woman in your mind becomes your property. And you kind of lose a little bit of that, that edge in a marriage that way. I don't care what anybody says. I know that might sound a little misogynist, but that is human nature. When we do that, things change. Things change a little bit. All of a sudden we turn off all of the options of all of Andrew's, you mentioned it, you said it, that's it. Once you do it, you're done. And that's great integrity. But I guarantee you, Sabrina, that was part of your attraction towards him, is that other women wanted him and you had him. Okay.

Yeah, I like— it's unfortunate.

Yep. And you're not any different than any other woman. You know, my wife's the same way. Okay. But that's part of the attraction. That's part of the desire, you know. And when you get married, you lose a little bit of that and you get comfortable very quickly. Until the kiddos come around. So you all waited a little bit to have kids.

Why?

Well, we feel like we were starting our careers over.

Yeah, it was like life was starting over because, shoot, I went back to school and got out December of '07 with my MBA in accounting. So then I immediately go into public accounting January 1st. It's a brand new career for me. So here I am at 30 years old. As a staff auditor, you know, working for a bunch of people that are way younger than me. And here I've managed an entire ranch and a bunch of people on that ranch and an entire business. And so it was— and I knew I'd have to, you know, swallow a lot of pride and kind of sit down and take my hits and learn. But it was just kind of— it kept being that whole, okay, let's get through this. Okay, then this is the next thing on the way. Okay, then let's Next thing is, okay, I gotta get my CPA behind me, so let's wait until after that. And so really what happened is, is it just, it was just an accident. Um, and what I used to— here's Nice Guy— the, the joke that I used to, used to tell was that the, the once every 2 to 3 weeks that I was getting laid happened to coincide with the 2 or 3 days where she might like forget and skip her pill, and it just happened that way. And so obviously a really bad toxic joke that, you know, I don't recommend anybody tell. Of course, we're grateful for our kiddo, but that's, you know, it just— that window, because she would, she would kind of go on and off her pill just because life would get away from her and things like that. So The two just kind of lined up and yeah, I'll never forget, I came home from the deer lease and she was waiting up and I got home at like 1 o'clock in the morning. I'm like, what in the world are you doing up? She's, she's like in bed asleep by 8:30.

I'm an old lady.

She woke up and she was crying and she told me that she was pregnant. And I just, you know, I was incredulous, you know, super happy and excited. And she was bawling and crying because she thought I was just going to be livid, mad, and upset. And it's just like, I don't know where that ever came from. But I mean, that was the impression that she had, that I was going to be extremely upset and mad.

So, wow, how about that? But obviously you weren't. And the Lord works in mysterious ways, doesn't he? He does. So good stuff. Okay, so you find out you're pregnant. Anything change between the dynamic between you two at that point?

Things were actually really good while she was pregnant. And, you know, I think I mentioned in the email that, you know, we have now since discovered, you know, some of her Hashimoto's and her other hormonal type stuff. And she had gone to a doctor after the pregnancy and had told him, you know, the best I've ever felt in my life was when I was pregnant. And his response, his asshole response to her was, well, you just need to get pregnant again. It's like, literally, rather than try to help her and figure out what's going on, that was his solutions. And he was supposed to be like one of the best in DFW. So super frustrating stuff trying to work through all that.

For sure. Now, hold on, I won't go, I won't go. I was almost asked you the age, but I won't go there. Okay. Okay. So the dynamic when she was born. What happened at that point?

It was—

everything was good.

Great. Yeah. How about that? Now that's a kicker because most of the guys that we talk to, most of the guys that come into the group, kids, kids are like the biggest wet blanket over a bedroom of a married couple there is. It's huge because every— like your programming just changes as a man. You become— you totally take away the lover and you become all provider. You know, it's just nothing but I need to produce things for my family. And you totally forget about the seduction of your wife, dating your wife, all of that stuff goes away because you've got a newborn. I remember when our kids were born, we had a bassinet in our bedroom. I mean, for months. I mean, that's gonna stifle your love life a little bit as a married couple.

And I think we avoided that pitfall. That's, that's not one that I've ever had any conversations on the, on the forums about, just because I don't have any experience with that. That's great. Shut us down.

Great.

And that's, like I said, that's actually fairly rare. Okay, so that's, that's a good thing. All right, so now things are going great, things are going great, and here comes the bad times.

Okay, great, great, but they were, we were dealing, they're decent.

I mean, I was still not being the leader at that point. I was still not showing interest in her interest. I was not, you know, I was at that point where I was trying to fix her problems, probably having the bad talk multiple times, you know, about I need more and why am I not getting it. So that, that all that nice guy stuff was starting then, but it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't based on the kid. It was an extension of issues we had always had, you know, with her having super high walls to defend herself against my hurtful comments, you know, me trying to latch on more and more to prove how much I care.

Super common. So let's, let's talk about that a little bit here. So what happened was, at the very beginning of the relationship, you both were, you know, we talked a lot about attachment theory, you both were securely attached, it seems like to me. Things were going great, and then what happened is it shifted towards what we call a pursuer-distancer relationship where Sabrina was backing off a little bit, you know, maybe the motherhood thing, you know, maybe the hormonal thing, the fact that he was kind of turning me off, being too clingy, and your tendencies started coming out. And this is super, super common, typically right around 8 to 10 years, right, right around the 8 to 10 year mark. That's typically when this stuff kind of really starts coming to the surface. And, and that's—

I was gonna say, I felt alone at that point because I was working too. Like, Gia was like, what, how many weeks? They called me like, hey, come back to work. And I'm like, okay. They're like, bring her, we need you. So we all went. And so between that and Gia and everything, I kind of felt still alone.

Well, and you got to remember, through the ranch, what, you know, we dated for a year And then she basically moved in with me in 2002.

That's a common one too.

So from 2002 through the end of 2007, when I finally got out of school again, we were always together 100% of the time. So all of a sudden here I go to this public accounting job where I'm gone constantly. And so it was just, it just ripped us apart. And we didn't have that quality time together anymore. And, and for us, for both of us, I think that's pretty extremely important.

Yeah, for everyone, you know, no marriage, no family. That's what I always say, right? It's just, that's the way it is. And, um, so now, Sabrina, I'm going to focus on you just a little bit. I'm not picking on you, okay? But you do display some avoidant tendencies. And, uh, like I said, I talk about attachment theory a little bit, avoidant attachments You definitely, you know, super independent, all of that stuff. That's what that spawns from. And typically with avoidant personalities, they have a tendency to put up these walls, okay? Especially when they start getting resentful, they start not really feeling loved, desired, or beautiful. They start putting these walls up. And so what happens is the guy has a tendency to get frustrated and he starts pushing harder. And it totally turns off the woman at that point. Like, give me some space. I need some space. And then all of a sudden he gives you the space, then all of a sudden you feel lonely and you feel abandoned.

It's a cycle.

It's a cycle. And I see that all the time in my coaching, guys, especially when it comes to this kind of dynamic. And like I said, this is a very, very important story to tell because it's so common. It is so common. You know, most people don't talk about stuff like this at the dinner table or, you know, at restaurants and that kind of thing. They're not going to talk about this kind of thing like on social media, okay? You'll see this beautiful picture of the family. Everybody's all great. It's all rainbows and unicorns and butterflies, you know. But in the underneath of it, you've got the pursuer-distancer relationship, and then shit's going— it's going south. Um, and so it comes to a head. So let's talk about when it, uh, let's talk about when it got bad. When did it get bad?

Well, I mean, so, so the real— we trudged along like that, treading water for years. So it was 2008 or 2018 when I had a 7-year restatement that I had to do for my company. So I was— and it was at the end of a quarter. We couldn't do the quarterly financials. Publicly traded companies, we couldn't do the quarterly financials until I had this restatement. Done. So I think I spent 21 days straight working insane hours to do this restatement, roll everything forward year to year to year to year. And so I was under a huge amount of stress, and I wasn't telling her about it. She didn't know. But this was, you know, I didn't mention it before, but this, this is the kind of a restatement that could be career-ending for, for somebody like me. Um, and again, it all got laid on my feet and blamed on me, and there was 6 or 7 people above me that should have caught it before it would have even been on my radar. But I was the only one that could fix it, so it all landed in my lap and then of course got blamed on me. So during that time, she had some family in from out of town. She'd spent all day in Fort Worth with her family at a horse show, and, and she called me and said, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up, we're all going to dinner. And I just said, this is a Saturday, and I said, I can't go. I've got to stay here and keep working. And again, she didn't know the depths of what I was doing and how bad it was. And I still, this might still be the first or second time she's actually ever heard about it because I kept that pretty quiet. But she just, it was a light switch. She just said, okay. And that was it. And that was, that was the fall of 2018. Um, and then, you know, then it was really treading water from that point. Um, and that's, that's when stuff started getting bad. We, we did okay until summer of 2019.

Okay, we were—

yeah, we just survived from, from the fall of '18 to the summer of 20.

I want to focus on Sabrina on this one because I know we've talked about this a little bit before, and there's a lot of details here that folks don't really understand. I want to get back to the horses thing again. Okay, now you were pretty tight with your father, were you not?

Yeah, to a degree. There was a— I mean, obviously there was a lot of issues with him, but at the same time, he was black or white. Like, there was gray and bipolarness as the other, my mom. So it was just structured, you know. I knew, but my mom would play things, and that's, that's a tough thing.

So you both saw loveless marriages essentially, and pretty, pretty tough stuff, and Now, there's a story about a horse that your father gave you, correct?

Yeah, he— they gave me a horse and it was the only thing I had at that point. I mean, we sold the ranch. I was— they got my old saddle and everything and I was just, by God, I'm going to make this happen. And I did and did and did and tried and tried and tried and I got it okay. But he— You know, Andrew would just say, why are you wasting your time on that piece of shit? Well, this is the only thing I have and I'm going to try to do my best. And, you know, and so he wouldn't show up and help. And it wasn't like they gave me a piece of shit horse, but it was just like—

My concern was you getting hurt.

He was 8 years old when I was, you know.

Yeah.

So we raced motocross together. I mean, what else? So it just didn't show that he was committed. And I'm not a needy, needy person by no means. But just some— my love language is one-on-one. Let's go plumbing, let's go dig. I just— let's work together. I'm cool with that. But just show some interest or help or just eyesight. You know, I want you to look and watch and tell me what I'm doing wrong or what I need to fix. He was just not there.

And I'm not sure if you heard this or not before, but when Andrew and I were talking before, that he actually told me that that was one of the things that attracted him to you at the beginning, that you had that work ethic and you spent time together. You got in there muddy, digging trenches and doing all the stuff that happens on a ranch together, you know? Right.

Yeah.

The perfect—

to be honest, it's perfect because that's how it works. You know, it's— you, you get— you spend time together, you build an empire. You're— I mean, you're physically building things together. I mean, that's sexy, right? Plus you get muddy. You're really in there and to get sweaty.

I mean, you just name it, I'll do it.

And he told me before that he found that very sexy about you. Okay. So, so he wasn't supporting you. That's a big one. Okay. Now that goes both ways too. It's interesting because, you know, women want their man to support them and men, we, that's a big quality that we love in a woman. Okay, when you're in a marriage that's really clicking and it's really hot and it's really good, it's when you're, when you're both challenging each other to be better and constantly growing. And all of a sudden what happens is you grow together. That's, that's how a marriage stays hot long term. And these resentments built up, all of a sudden he's not supporting your horses anymore. You know, he's gone all the time. And now Sabrina, Let's talk about the really bad stuff. Okay, you started detaching from him, correct? Tell me about that.

I was, to a degree, I was probably detaching all these years. I'll be honest. You know, I was working so hard to be the perfect wife. I would try to do all the things that I need to do, make sure everything was done, you know, outside, inside, whatever. But his love language I didn't want to deal with because I didn't feel that.

Otherwise, AKA SEX, right? Let's talk about it.

I mean, I was just trying to do all these other things, you know, to make him happy. But it's not always about the food and the, the clean and the outside stuff. It's the other stuff too. So, but I couldn't go there because I just didn't feel that you know, attraction. Attraction. It wasn't even attraction. Yeah, I guess it was.

And it made it— it made Andrew very needy, correct?

100%.

Super common. Super, super common. So this— let's just address that real quick with SEX in a marriage, okay? Let's talk about that real quick.

It's—

women think that men just want to get off all the time, okay? We want— we want sex every single day. We get married because we want sex on tap. It's not— that's not true, okay? That's not true. Not for me, not for Andrew, not for many of the men I talk to. We feel connected to our woman when we're physically intimate with them, okay? That's the way it's designed. If we don't get that at all— so for instance, Sabrina, take it like this. What if he never initiated sex with you? Never, never told you you're beautiful, never tried to take you on a date night, you know, and give you all that attention. It's the same thing for a man when it comes to sex. It's the same thing, okay? When you don't get the romance, it's the same thing as not getting sex for a man. It's the same thing. So we feel it— essentially, it emasculates us. That's what happens, okay? And everything goes off the rails when that happens. Okay, and I would never tell a woman to say you just need to have sex with your man because that's not how it works. Because Andrew, I know you're like me, you don't want your woman just to lay down and say get it over with. That's, that's not attractive to us at all. We know the difference. We know the difference between good sex and awful duty sex like that. Okay, nobody wants that. And all it does is shame a woman and, uh, and it makes a man feel like crap. Um, and you further detach, and it's— that's when really bad dumpster fires happen. Okay, so you got to that point, obviously you started detaching. Um, now let's talk about some of the behaviors that you weren't really— you—

I didn't just— I'm an independent mom.

Yeah, really.

I mean, I've been provided, but I mean still in my head, I'm like, well, I'm just kind of by myself for all these hours with Gia, or sorry, but, uh, I'm just going on and just do— I, you know, I do all the mowing, the weed eating, which I love that, okay, but I do all those things, and by the time I get home, I'm like, okay, well, I'm by myself again. And he wasn't— like, just that hour with my family for dinner, that was huge to me. Like, just one hour, you know, and maybe that's called needy, I don't know, but that was just showing that, hey, he is committed and, you know, this is what is more important than anything else. We can get through all the intimacy.

That's, that's called intimacy, and we both need that. Um, but, uh, but obviously he was abandoning his post, you know, figuring that he's, he's— his responsibility is to provide, um, all of that lifestyle that you have and, and you just detach.

So, so, so he— I'd be grateful for when he would go hunting. I would be like, yes, okay, I'm by myself, because I was comfortable being by myself.

That's, that's avoidant tendencies right there. That's exactly what that is.

He would come home from work and I would just dread it. First of all, he would carry some of his work home, and at the same time I could just feel that. And plus, we're not vibing anyway, so So there was just all this tension and it was just like, oh, he's coming home.

Okay.

I just— yeah.

Yep.

You know, very common. Very, very common for sure. Because that's avoidant tendencies. So, um, you basically just, just, I don't want to be around you. It's, it's like physically like painful to be around somebody that you're not really comfortable with anymore.

100%. And I'll, I'll be honest, I've always felt an attraction to him. I mean, for all these years, I feel like there is a bond that can never be broken, but it was breaking. So now you started going on social media, just take pictures of just me, myself, and I, or Gia, or, you know, that. And yes, people would come in, think I was single because he wasn't really in the pictures, he wasn't home really anymore. And it was just like, okay, fine. Oh yeah, you get—

for sure, you're seeking male validation is what you're doing. And that's, that's That's common.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I subconsciously knew it at the time, but I'm like, oh yeah, it's natural because you weren't getting it from your husband.

So that's it, you know, and, uh, and that feels good. And you get up, you get a little bit of it, and then you want a little more, and it's like a drug, right? Um, now you can see why people have affairs. That's, that's how this happens, okay? Um, you go down a slippery, slippery slope Then Andrew, you come across some things. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so I mean, I think I had started in the group by that point, uh, super early on and, uh, started, you know, I'd read the book and read a bunch of posts and things on Facebook. So I, you kind of had been given the charge of you need to go ahead and start snooping and figuring some things out. So, you know, I was there was a couple of times I was able to get a hold of her phone, uh, and start going through that. And I, you know, had developed a list of— because I never knew how much time I was going to have, so I had a list of check this, check this, go here, look at this. Uh, so I had a list that I'd work through, and I'd work through her phone, and I started, you know, finding the DMs. You know, of course I already could see her Facebook posts where she was presenting herself as single and just kind of, kind of carving me out. And so that, you know, that was hurtful. Um, found the DMs, found, you know, kind of a list of where she was putting her thoughts together as far as what she needed to do to, to go on her own. Uh, and, and I also knew that she had, uh, one or two job interviews where she was actually trying to, to, to get a job to where she could earn money herself and support and provide for herself.

So she's exit planning at that point. So yeah, that's going to get your attention pretty doggone quick. So let's talk about the book. A lot of people, if you're listening to this, it's called The Dead Bedroom Fix. That's the book that, uh, well, Dad Starting Over wrote, uh, back in 2017, and he did another edition in 2020. So you, you actually saw the first edition, um, and how did you get— come across that book?

That's like most people. Facebook saw the picture. I can't remember that I was Googling, you know, how to fix a marriage or anything. And I don't know how that algorithms work, but somehow it just popped up and there it was in my face and that picture on the COVID of that book. Holy shit. And so I, I think I clicked on it, read a review or two and said, you know, it's $15. Why not? So I bought it, read it in 6 hours. I mean, it just grabbed me and I was like, Jesus, I've got some work to do. So, but it was, you know, I loved it because it's written so simple and it's just a kick in the nuts. This is what you need to do to unfuck yourself. And so, you know, it's like we said overnight, you know, made changes. Said, I'm, I'm freaking all in on this because I don't have any time to waste. I couldn't ease into it. It was overnight. Made all the changes, started hitting the gym, started hitting 2 a days, um, losing the weight, changing how I dressed, stopped emoting, stopped being needy, actually cut off sex, um, just because I needed So many of our— every argument or disagreement we had came back to, you know, her basically making a comment saying, you're just really upset because you're not getting laid.

Say, find somebody else. That would be my go-to, is just find somebody else because I'm not good enough.

That's low self-esteem talking right there. Okay, so, so I had—

yeah, so I cut off sex until she came to me, and it took 5 or 6 weeks. She finally came to me and that was great. It was amazing. It's totally different. And then I cut it off again because I needed to break that cycle. I needed to break my neediness cycle and I needed to try and break her thought process that anytime I showed any interest, all I was trying to do was get laid. So the second time it took another 3 weeks before she came to me.

Pause there real quick. I want to focus on this real quick. Getting too far. So when you download the DBF, it's Dead Bedroom Fix is the name of the book. And what it is, the name is a catchy title, okay? It's a marketing ploy because sex sells, obviously. But essentially what that book is, it's a self-help book for men. And it's very logical. It's written only for men. Women, I mean, you can read it, but it's not going to make a whole lot of sense because it's almost like a cooking recipe with these certain steps, certain things that you're doing wrong that are very unattractive, and you correct those. So I just want to say this real quick, Sabrina. He was not focusing on you, okay? He was working on himself, right? And that's attractive.

At the beginning, I will say it was like he was trying to fix me, and he would do things, and I was just like, this is so weird. And I'm like, that's right, at first.

But she didn't have any idea.

I didn't tell her. No. Yeah, so you're working on it for a few months, and so you came into the, the DSO fraternity. Okay, so, um, how long was that after the book that you, that you came into the Facebook group?

Oh, well, I mean, I was in the Facebook group from the beginning. From the beginning. And then when it became a pay thing, I immediately went and paid because I'm like, and by that time things were turning around. I mean, things were already getting better, but I was like, this has changed my life so incredibly much. If I pay for this the rest of my life, it's worth every freaking penny. And you know, even if I do figure out the way to get to the top and stay at the top of it, it's still worth every penny to continue to be a part of it. To continue to be a reminder of what I never want to backslide, right?

You know, the journey never ends. Every single day we try to work on something, uh, and we're all keeping each other accountable. That's what's the beauty of, of the group. And a lot of women think that this group is just a group that belittles women or misogynists, you know, all this stuff. It's not, it's not true. We just want to be better dudes. That's what it's for. That's what we are. And, uh, the reason why I'm a coach in this organization is that originally I came to the group because I wanted to hold myself accountable too. I made a lot of changes in my life. I had a lot of work-related stress that royally messed with my head. I went into about a depression and it turned my wife off. Okay. We didn't go completely dead. We had a great marriage to begin with. But I felt the passion go away. And I came across the book on Facebook as well. And I'm like, this is, this is interesting.. And I listened to it and I was like, oh yeah, this is it. This is, this is good stuff. And I made some changes and turned it around. All right. So now there's gotta be a moment for you, Sabrina, that you said, okay, this guy's different. What's up with this? What moment was that?

Really? Hmm. Honestly, it was the clothing that really was the kicker. It's like, wasn't his normal uniform. It was, you know, Pierre Millard stuff and things of that nature. What the hell is this? I'm like, okay, you look nice, but it was weird for me.

I had a friend at work that was, you know, I guess you would call him metro, extreme dresser. So I just went to him and I said, hey, I need some help. So he helped me find some good shorts and some nice shoes and helped me with my style. And then I went to Joseph A. Bank and got a lot of nice button-up shirts and a couple of sports coats, and then took those sports coats once I got into a place with my fitness where I could show it off. I got those sports coats, took them and had them tailored to where they really showed off the physique that was under there. And then I just started dressing a step above everyone else around me every day. And it was confusing for her.

Yeah. What's the target like?

Yeah.

I'd say the Neiman's.

Neiman's.

She said my uniform, it was either cargo shorts and a plaid shirt or starch jeans.

I remember seeing the pictures. Yeah. You definitely looked like Homer Simpson for sure. Definitely was Homer Simpson. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you had some weight on you and you weren't dressing well and you were comfortable. Uh, it happens. It happens in marriage, you know, and it's not attractive. It's just not attractive because it shows that you're being lazy and you're not working on each other, on yourself to be better and to drive and, and to really seduce your wife. I mean, that's what it comes down to. And and date her, you know. Um, now I remember a story. He started getting back into horses, and I, I think that was a, that was a big turning point for your marriage, was it not?

Uh, yeah, he, um, when we were going through our issue, we were at a big horse show and he had the offer— we had the opportunity, or I would say he, to just two yearlings so I could go and start them and turn them around and sell them. And at that point, I was pretty much one foot out the door. And at that point, I'm like, he's an accountant and he doesn't like to spend money. He's very thrifty. What the hell?

Hmm.

And I really, you know, obviously that's probably not what you should do, you know, have a little dangle of bait. But at the same time, I knew I'm, I'm not that person that I'm like, oh, sure, yeah, I'll do it. I had to sit there and think about it. Really deep.

I knew she was gone. She was already gone mentally. She just hadn't walked yet. I mean, and so I, in my mind, I didn't use it as incentive, but I was getting ready to spend a bunch of money and I just needed her to understand that. And by this time I'd been working on myself for a couple of months, but not enough to make big, huge changes for her to note, to feel comfortable that they were going to stick.

We were so—

And to trust me again. She was still fighting me pretty hard, and I was just kind of laying back, letting the changes happen, not being needy, just trying to prove it. But I, I got this opportunity. I want you to do this, but I'm not going to spend this money if you're walking out the door next month. So you need to decide what you're doing. You're either going to stick with me and see it through the— see me through these changes that I'm making in my life, yeah, or you're gone. You may call because I don't have to buy these horses, and I sure didn't want to do it then. I wanted us to be in a way better spot, but this was just an amazing opportunity that—

let's focus on that.

Gotta come along.

That's this. This is important. There's a lot of good things that happen with that. There's one bad thing where you're, you're trying transactional, trying to keep your wife around. Okay, that's, that's the bad thing. But I know why you did that. Okay, and I know what was a good thing in Sabrina's mind about that, that whole thing. Sabrina, when he did that, you realized that he had your back again. Okay. And he was, he was back in line with what you love. And he was listening to you at that point. And he was willing to take that extra effort, uh, to, to, to join you. So he gave, he gave, and then you gave back. Okay. I will say this about our group. Not all women are like that. Okay. A lot of them, they're going to have one and a half step out the door and something like that is not going to affect them at all. And they basically just, they just shut the door behind them. Okay. Most women do not, they're not as receptive as you were. And frankly, you all were pretty close to being done. Okay. And what he did there, like I said, if I were coaching him at that point, I probably wouldn't have recommended him to actually make the purchase. But what he did is he used it to assert himself, to say, hey babe, I care for you. I really care for you. I want to, I want to work on this and I'm serious. If you don't want to work on it, I'm not going to waste my time. And that is what we call the healthy talk in our group. Okay, the unhealthy talk is, you know, why don't you find me attractive? We need to have sex more. That's the awful shit. Okay, that's needy and it's not attractive. What Andrew did was very attractive. Okay, he was speaking your love languages like he said. He had your back and he got your attention and you responded. Congratulations, welcome to your new life. Okay, and ever since then, you know, a lot of guys will do that too, and they'll say that their woman's responding to them again, and then they just say, ah, I'm good, and then they go right back to the old comfortable shit, Homer Simpson. Okay, but he didn't do that, did he?

Nope, he's just put that together.

Super sexy. And let's talk about the good stuff now. Okay, we got past the bad stuff. So let's see, obviously you got her attention at that point. She was more receptive. And did you start dating her at that point? Did you start doing date nights and, and doing the fun stuff? Okay.

Yeah, I don't think we're there yet because I'm not a big go out, get dressed up girl. Um, so it, it takes me a while to— okay, let's— we're gonna go out to dinner, we're gonna go do this than that. Um, I think he was just— I don't know how to say—

our date nights didn't start until the fall of 20.

So what'd you do in the meantime then, between that moment and, and then the date night stuff?

It was around, just around and spent time together, spent time in the barn.

And it was really weird, like I would be doing things and he was there and constantly. I'm like, what the hell are you doing?

It caused—

it caused problems in the opposite direction because she's like, yeah, stop smothering me, you know, because I've been so used to being by myself for all this time.

And so, so I was constantly having to kind of gauge back and forth, test the waters, back off, test the waters, back off, don't be needy, and then go do my own shit, you know, but make sure in on her at the right points in time to try and meet that need she has and then back off again. She's complicated with the amount of time that you spend with her versus when you have to pull away. So he'll be in the—

our barn and shop are together. So doo doo doo doo to the shop and then doo doo doo back to the barn. So that's basically what we did a lot. Like, he would leave and I would go find him and do-do-do-do. And so that's how we re-dated, I guess.

It was kind of strengthening and building.

That's right. Building trust. Getting you more comfortable together. It's interesting that there's a term for that in the seduction realm and pickup realm, as a matter of fact. They call it push-pull. It's what they call that, okay? You push her a little bit, and if she pushes away, then you pull back and you let her approach you. That is a very common dynamic that you have to have in a marriage to keep it hot. Otherwise, you're going to be too needy or you're going to be too avoidant. So you have to play both those games. And it's a lot of fun, actually. That's what I find fun about marriage. Because you can, as a former player myself, you can get the hunt, right? I can hunt my wife, you know, like I did before with other ladies. But It's more of a game in our marriage that way, and it keeps it hot, very hot. So good stuff. All right. So let's see. So things are going great. Then you said fall of '21, you start doing the date nights, doing the weekends away, you getting away together. Yeah.

Yes. Getting her away from the ranch, away from the horses, away from everything that's here and away from the kid. Because she doesn't only have the kid anxiety, she has the ranch and the horses and everything that goes along with this place. So if I don't— she never stops thinking.

Gotta get her out of mom mode. And the only way to do that, right, get away from the kids. And away from the kids, like away. It's huge. It is a huge deal in marriage. Uh, what I always say in my coaching calls, no marriage, no family. No marriage, no family. You have to prioritize your marriage over your kids. We have a huge problem right now in the world. Honestly, the United States is terrible about this. Is it the kid-centric marriages? You know, it's always about the kids' activities and you're strangers in the night passing back and forth. Because I know, because that's the stage I'm in with my marriage. But it doesn't affect us because I still date my wife. I still seduce her, but I got my own shit. You know, I've got my own mission. I've got my own things that I do that I, that I love, and I don't need her to be happy. She doesn't need me to be happy. But when we're together, we're better. It's beautiful. That's marriage to me. You know, we make each other better, you know, and that's— marriage isn't dead. It isn't dead. I just, I wish people— this is why I'm doing this interview with y'all. Because it's possible. Guess what? It's work. This is not a fucking romantic movie here, okay? It's not a sitcom. This is not a rom-com. This is real life. This is real stuff happens. People die. Stuff happens in your life. People get hurt. You know, all of these things, like you have to deal with stuff and you have to, you can't avoid conflict. If you avoid conflict, you don't grow together. And y'all have grown so much. And you know what's interesting about your future? Let me just— I'm going to look into my crystal ball real quick here, okay? In the future, if you have a rough spot, you can look back at the bad times, those really bad times that you had, and you can say to each other, we got through this, we got through that, we can get through anything. It's all good. Nothing Nothing's gonna faze us at this point. We're rock solid, right? That's what it takes. It takes its peaks and valleys. It's not always gonna be— you're not always gonna be on the peaks. You're gonna have some valleys, and, and how long you spend in those valleys is whether you stay married or not, period. So anyway, so let's see here. So if you want to talk about it right now, so what do you do now currently? So to keep things hot. I mean, you don't have to get into details, but, uh, what are you doing at this point?

Well, um, kind of like we've been through our life, we just, we, we move from one thing to the next and we always have so many different things going on. Um, obviously I've gotten into great physical shape with, because of the book. Uh, and now that's just become a part of my life. I was on heart meds, you know, for 4 years before that picture was taken that I have out there. It shows me as Homer. Um, and once I got in shape, they took me off, which once you go on heart meds, you don't come off, but they took me off just because I fixed it all. Um, that was a great part of my life. So I'll never go back there, but now I'm just pushing and pushing and pushing to look better and get bigger.. And you know, for a 45-year-old dude, that, that can be a challenge, but, but I love it. So Sabrina jumped on that fitness train. She has a coach now. She's getting ready for the figure or physique or, and, or the physique class, I guess both now. And so, you know, kind of what, what our hot thing is now is, is he'll have these weekend boot camp classes like 7 AM. Saturdays, 8 AM Sundays. So, and they're over on the other side, north of Dallas, and of course we're west of Fort Worth. So we'll go— I'll go get a really nice hotel room over there, you know, decent hotel room in a little area that's got some restaurants, because we just like to get out and walk and then go to bed early. Um, so we'll go over there, check into that hotel, go out and walk around, maybe sit down and have some kind of a nice dinner that fits with our diet programs and things like that. Spend the time in the hotel room doing what we do, enjoying ourselves, and, and then, you know, get up the next morning and go hit that gym and get a hard workout in. And I mean, that just, that, that fulfills our life right now. Or, you know, if we got a horse show, we'll load up, go to the horse show, and, and, you know, that's different now because I'm involved again and supportive, and it's, you So we can turn that into a quasi-dating trip as well with a horse show thrown in. Um, and so things, things go pretty well with that. Now she likes to ride at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Is that a Lone Peak? Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

That's great.

But you know, so we, so we have super odd hours when we when we do that stuff, but we still fit in the time to enjoy time together and be together.

And during the week we make— we're trying to make like Thursdays.

Yeah, so I, I historically work late, and then I have the gym there at the office that's open until 8. So, so what I do is I go to the gym from 6 to 7:30-ish, and then I'm not home till 8:30, 9, or 8:30 to 9, somewhere in there.

And that's when I get a little pissed.

And, but, you know, by about 8:30 she's been running the kid around all day. She's getting home from taking the kid to cheer— cheer-nastics, that I call it. And then, you know, by that time she's crawling into bed. So I'm coming home to a wife that's kind of in her zombie mode and going to sleep.

I'm up at 4 or 5, so—

Yeah, she's up at 5 every day getting things done. So, You know, what I'm doing now is, is I'm only going to hit the gym downtown 4 days a week. And so one, at least one night a week, I'm going to come home at a decent time and actually be able to spend a couple hours. Thursday's my day off because now she likes to open up and talk, and it's never been like that before. So I'd love to get home and she'll just go on and on and on and on, just talk and tell me about her day or week, and I love it. And she'll keep apologizing for it, but you know, it's, it's, I've never had that experience with her in 22 years. So, you know, now, now she, she trusts me and she's open and I'm not, she's not, she's not worried that I'm trying to solve her problems or tell her how she messed something up or, you know, criticize her or judge her. I just sit and listen and we have good conversation and, you know, that's, that's how we spend our quality time together now and it's still here at the place on the weekends doing things together. You know, we're still— she's got— we got 2 show horses, and each one of us are showing one of them. So we're doing that, you know. I'm showing again, she's showing. Um, so we spend that time together, you know. If I got something to work on in the shop, or if we need— but we just do everything.

So that's interesting about that too, because that's important in the marriage as well. So Sabrina, you saw him with his journey And you were inspired by that and you started your own plan. Now, Andrew, did you push that or did she, did she take that on herself? Bingo. I agree.

The book said never push it. So I followed the book to the T. I never did anything.

I was always upper body, you know, dominant. I was skinny, but I always wanted legs. And so I would always run, and I was running 5 miles a day. I didn't realize till now, he would always say, the legs you want, you've got to go weight train. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

You gotta push heavy weight if you want those legs. That's all I ever said.

That's all I ever said. So I finally got in and started working on it and trusted the process. And here I am over just the way I do. I just don't do things half ass and go, what the hell was I thinking? I really didn't have time anyway, but here I am just gonna try something different.

And there's— you're never too— you're never too old for this stuff. So that's, that's it. Okay, so when I— I've been coaching about 2 years in this, in this organization, and that is a trend that I've noticed with my really good success stories. Okay, the dude totally does a 180. He takes the pursuer-distancer relationship. He's the pursuer. He's the needy guy. He's the codependent guy. He all of a sudden, boom, cuts that off. He works on himself, makes himself better, makes himself more attractive, but he's not focusing on her. He's focusing on himself, making himself better. And, and wife is like, whoa, what's going on here? And then she starts to get inspired. And it takes some time for women to do that. It, yep. My wife, it took her, it took her 3 months when I, when I really started getting in shape, uh, because I was a Homer Simpson too. I freely admit that I, I had the dad bod rocking, buddy. Uh, and so I got better. She's like, okay, uh, maybe I need to get my ass in gear here. And so she started getting her better. And so we have our separate journeys and we have our separate lives. We have our separate things. But then when we come together, it is magic time. It is just, it is beautiful. And that's the trend that I see with my people that have turned it around. It's when the guy gets better and the woman, not misogynist here, when she follows him, okay, and says, hey, I want to be a part of that too. That, and it's just, it's beautiful. The electricity that happens when that, when, when that environment is set, amazing.

And I've— we've talked in the past and I've told you, she's not one to blow sunshine up anybody's ass ever, including— and, uh, but I will never forget this. And I was never needy about it, trying to say, what do you think of my physique? You know, I'm changing, what do you think? Are you— never. I just left it alone, did my own thing. But I will never forget when it happened, the realization. We were walking into Walmart And she had a moment of vulnerability and she said something about, I just don't want you to be hotter than me. And I remember looking up going, there it is. And I put my head back down, kept my mouth shut, and we just kept on going. And again, it's don't make a big deal out of that shit. Take it because you deserve it and go on. Don't say shit because all you're going to do is ruin it. That was the realization that, that she finally was seeing my changes.

And I do my own research. There's a few podcasts out there that I started kind of following and understanding the masculine and feminine roles and things like that. I have a— we have a very good horse trainer friend, and he sat me down one day before all of this and talked to me about provider roles and this role, and this is what he's supposed to do, and this you know, he's supposed to be the leader.

It's more the masculine versus feminine.

That's what I mean. But what was that?

Oh, he was explaining the masculine versus feminine.

And so that got my wheels turning, and then he started changing in a whole bunch of just— it just all changed.

And it's called polarity. That's exactly what that is. And so polarity is what creates attraction. So, so folks listening to this recording If you're, if you're not polarized, if you don't have the masculine, you don't have the feminine, you don't have the yin and yang, you will not have attraction and desire suffers and you will drift apart. That is the way it is. I didn't make the rules. It is the way it is. Okay. If your woman is doing all of the masculine roles and you're letting her do that, she is not going to respect you. Period.

And that's that. We were dead. And I, we, we had a big talk about that today, um, over how, you know, how I had basically let her take over all the masculine things and take it all back. And it could be like, I don't understand why I am the way I am now and comfortable with you and not, you know, trying to take over everything anymore, but it's so relieving. And so I laid it out and I explained it to her. So I said, because I gave all that up and you took it over because nobody else could. And then once I, part of my process of taking all that back and becoming the leader and the man and your rock again, allowed you to let all that go, let all that weight off your shoulders to where now you trust me. I said, now you, now you were back in your feminine.

A big monumental thing happened a month ago, and I haven't told him. This is gonna be news to him. It's always good. I went to visit him one night over. He was doing a work thing. I went to Dallas, visited with him that night. That next morning, I wrecked my truck. I crossed over, a person hit me. It was a big thing. And all I did was text him, say, hey, got in a wreck. He didn't really know, and then I dropped a pin. I said, here I am. He came, and I'm almost wanting to go back and revert into my, oh, I gotta put my shield up because I'm gonna get in trouble and all this. He never once, you know, criticized me or anything. He was there, my rock, and supported me. And it's just dealing with this process, and not one time has he said, well, did you look? Better or anything like that, you know. And so that's actually been the hugest thing and a big, big change here in a month too for me, because I'm waiting for that criticism and it's never happened.

She's always looking for the old Andrew to come back. And we, with the whole TV thing 2 weeks ago and the whole, you know, her being sick and me being irritable and her thinking it was because she was sick for a week and we didn't have sex. It has nothing to do with that. And I had to shut that down immediately and correct that thought process. But with her, it's been— it was 18 years of putting up with my bullshit.

And a lot of it came from my family too. I mean, there's that baggage. And he—

oh, we all—

there's a lot of scars. Yeah, she carries. Yeah. So, so it's still all the time trying to make sure that she believes in these changes and You know, until she believes in it, that it's, you know, I've still got more work to do.

Oh, and, uh, yeah, that's, that's beautiful, right? Y'all got it going on. This, this is, it's amazing. And, uh, that's what I want, that's why I wanted to talk to y'all, because you're living it and you continue to live it. And you, you're going to have tragedy. You wrecked your truck, um, and you accepted him because you respect him and That's why you were feminine with him. That's— and I hate to use the word, but submitted. And, uh, and you, and you took that role and ran with it, Andrew. And sparks fly. Sparks fly when, when that happens. That's called— it is polarity. It's what it's all about. Um, and embracing those roles, it's just, it's, it's magic. It really is. And it's beautiful. I wish everybody had that experience. And we're working on it. We're working on it. You know, not everybody's cut out to do this marriage thing, you know. And, but y'all got it going on. And I guess any, any tips for anybody that's listening? I just want to do like a— we've already done all the masculine stuff. I want to hear from Sabrina. Like, what tip do you have for women out there? That are involved in this kind of thing?

I would say honestly, podcasts. I mean, to listen and to understand it. When he started telling me about these roles, I thought he was talking about— I'm a farm girl— physical work. And I'm like, yeah, those are the things I like. But no, he was meaning deeper things. And just to really listen.

And absorb and accept it.

Accept it. That's a hard one for me to accept it. I think probably for a lot of women. And to see the red flags and fix— not fix, but fix your own red flags too. And that— and I have a tendency to just, if he'll say something, to react so quickly. And I don't anymore, which is really weird. We had that conversation here pretty much last couple days.

Yeah, I mean, that's been the most interesting part for me is to watch her personal growth because it took a long time. She was just kind of hanging out waiting for me to fix myself and waiting to believe it and making sure I wasn't going to revert. And it's only been like, say, the last 6 months that she's really started to open up and talk about the issues that she knows she has. And then doing her own research to try and figure out, number one, why. And she's a, she's a digger. She wants to understand everything. So she started digging and trying to figure out why, you know, she has the thought process that she has, and then trying to understand the differences in the roles and how to be comfortable with that. And so, you know, that's been the last 6 months that she's really started to work on herself mentally.

And I did that for several months before I even engaged with him about my understanding and readings and everything, because I, I didn't want to put my vulnerable, you know, I was just like, I don't know, she worried I was going to come with the whole fix it thing again. Yeah.

And that's, that's it. That's the feminine and masculine roles. So, so if masculine affection is given, feminine affection is received and given back. That's how it works. Okay. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with it. It's been around for a while, you know, and just the last 50, 60 years, this, this whole concept of I don't need no man, you have to be independent, have to be strong, all of this stuff. It's, it's destructive. It is destructive. And it goes both ways too, because men are giving up that role. Men aren't men anymore. And, and that's, it creates this because then a woman is forced to take the masculine role. And it just, it just becomes a dumpster fire. That's just, that's, that's what I see over and over and over of guys coming in this group. It just, it just happens.

I want to say one thing, and it was something I've discovered recently, you know, through being introspective and thought about. I was buried in the whole nice guy thing. I mean, super nice guy. So along with that, comes, you know, the fact that half the time what I was telling my wife was just lies, right? Part, a big part of my process was realizing, because I always thought, you know, anything she tells, or, you know, I can't tell whatever comes out of her mouth, I can't tell if it's the truth or a lie or not, because, you know, I applied myself to her. And in fact, you know, she doesn't lie. When she says something, she means it. I mean, it's the truth. It's just there. She doesn't have any ulterior motives like I did as the nice guy to tell a lie or to bend the truth. And so part of my big process was shut up and just stop, listen to what she says and believe it for what it is. And that was a huge thing for me to get to, to where I just realized that she's not lying. Like I used to. She's just honest. And, you know, listen to what she says and believe it for what it is. Even if you're sitting there beating yourself up going, there's no way she's telling me the truth. She is. She's got no reason to lie about these things, you know, about the way she feels. And she's— because I know her, she's not going to say something. Nothing's going to come out of her mouth if it's— if, you know, as far as how she cares and feels about you, if it's not the truth. She's just not gonna say it. So I had to convince myself to actually believe in what she was telling me and take it. That's really, really difficult for me. I was—

pause right there because that is so important right there. That's, that's the, that's the mojo, buddy. So most of the guys that come into our group, they're very passive. Code— we call it nice guy is code for codependent, okay? So somebody that's, uh, that's very preoccupied with their partner, um, and doesn't really— is not assertive. Okay, so there's a huge difference between being assertive and asshole. Big difference between those two things. And what's even worse is when you're passive, and that's where you were. Okay, you were passive, she was avoidant, and that's when bad things happen. So you trained yourself, you reparented yourself. I love that word, reparenting. You reparented yourself to be assertive. And that's, that's what coaching does. That's what I do. That's, that's what I focus on. I teach guys how to be assertive and not be a jerk. Okay, there's, there's a huge difference. So that's what you did.

And that was that.

Yeah, because I guarantee at first you swung the pendulum way too far and you went way asshole and Yeah, most guys do that. That's what they do. They just don't understand. They don't know what assertive is. Okay, assertive is being open to criticism and accepting your responsibility of your screw-ups and your problems. All right, assholes avoid it and blame. Okay, passive guys, they don't say anything and they manipulate. That's— that's— so assertive is the key. It's finding that middle ground, and it's hard to do. It's not easy. So, so good stuff. Uh, I tell you what, uh, any closing thoughts?

Yeah, I think that probably was my closing thought, was, was listen to, listen to your wife and believe them. They're not gonna lie like we do, uh, based on having ulterior motives of trying to get laid. And then my other thought process, and this is a result of reading through all the posts and things, read the book and just do the things. It's black and white for us, for all men. It's black and white. Stop overthinking it. Read the book and just do the things that it says to do and stay the course. And when things get better, don't back off. So I mean, I think that was the biggest difference for me is, is, is I never backed off. I changed everything overnight and I hit it with all barrels that I could and just attacked it because I had to fix it. She was out the door. So, but it's black and white. It's really simple. Just do the thing.

I agree. And the one thing, you know, huge progress. The sex. Okay. When you're thirsty in the desert, you've got, you've had no drink of water for 3 months or excuse me, 3 days. You would not survive very long with 3 months without drinking water. Um, but you haven't had to drink water in 3 days. You're, you're completely focused on that one thing because, because you're not getting it. Then all of a sudden you start realizing that the problem is you. The problem is in yourself and you start working on yourself and then all of a sudden you get a sip of water. From your wife, where she's giving you some affection that you were starving for, and it just keeps getting better and better and better. And Sabrina, I'm telling you, when a man like Andrew has had a couple drinks of water, he's not thirsty anymore, okay? He's not thirsty anymore, and he— it's not needy anymore, and he realizes it's, it's all him. And what's beautiful about where Andrew is now as a man, as a guy that's been in our group for 2, 3 years, continued to work on himself. If he loses his way just a little bit, he can, he can correct himself very quickly where he couldn't before. And he can do that on his own. I mean, he's not that active in the group anymore. He'll pop in every now and then, but, uh, he's got it going on. He knows what he's doing. And you got a good man. And I'm telling you, Andrew, you got a good woman too. Y'all are beautiful. Great couple. It's beautiful. So absolutely. So one thing I want to mention here with the DSO fraternity, we do have a promotion going on right now. It's only going to last a couple weeks. We just launched our brand new website and you can join up until May 17th. There's a discount code that you can get into it pretty, pretty cheap just to kind of check it out, see what we're like. There's 1,000 men in there. It is super active. You can get on the coaching tabs to get in contact with me. I specialize in balancing between the lover and provider roles, which is super important in a marriage. I have a tendency to lean more on the lover role because you can never beat emotion. But that's, that's what I do. Okay. So if you're interested, check it out and we're waiting. Okay. So I appreciate y'all doing this. I know you're opening up a lot, and I'm telling you, thank you. Thank you, especially to you, Sierra. This is, this is, this is an awkward thing. I really appreciate it. But go ahead.

And I just want to— one, I do want to say one final thing for the men. Don't expect your wives to like change overnight because it probably takes you guys quicker.

Yep, I agree.

And I'll be honest, I mean, just be patient. I'd be more patient than ever, but well, with the walls and—

yeah, for sure.

Years of resentment that I had built up. Yes, it was the one month for every year of marriage.

It just builds up. It just does. And, uh, and you don't trust him at the beginning, and, uh, and then he proves himself, and then you trust him even more and more and and it just keeps getting better, and the sky's the limit. I can't wait to, to hear what's going to happen for the next couple years with y'all because, uh, it's beautiful. Keep it up. You're doing some good here. Thank you. All right, we'll see you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Absolutely. Bye. Hey, thank you.