In this episode of the Dad Starting Over podcast, the host first promotes the Help for Men Brotherhood, a support community offering private forums, live Zoom meetings, one‑on‑one coaching, courses, and books for men dealing with dead bedrooms, divorce, loneliness, and rebuilding their lives. He invites listeners to join via help4men.com/join. The episode then addresses a listener, Andrew Jones, who describes his marriage as a dynamic where his wife is indifferent. The host identifies this as a classic anxious‑avoidant attachment pattern: Andrew as the anxious pursuer and his wife as the avoidant partner. He explains attachment theory terminology, notes the common “angel‑victim vs. devil‑wall” narrative, and emphasizes that both partners need to work toward greater security. Practical advice includes each partner doing personal work, finding a middle ground, and the anxious partner seeking resources (books, courses, videos) while the avoidant partner may resist constant attempts at fixing. The host stresses that both sides have work to do and that recognizing the pattern can help break the cycle.
Chapters
Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person, real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting.
Andrew Jones says— Andrew from YouTube says, I want to go because no matter how many times we discuss improving things, She always defaults to good old indifference. We've got busy jobs, but she seems so comfortable with indifference, and I need more. I'm sorry to hear that, Andrew. So here you are, you're painting the picture in one— well, we got two sentences here. Here I am being a Mr. Know-it-all and trying to pretend I know exactly what you're talking about, but you are in just a few sentences kind of outlining, if you're not aware, a pretty common scenario. In the scenario, one of the pursuer, let's work on this, let's discuss things, let's talk about the relationship. And the other one being, as you put it, indifferent. Nah, I'm good. We're fine. We don't need to talk about all that stuff. We don't need to always bring in this drama and blah, blah. Let's just live our lives for God's sakes. The psych terms that the psychologists like to throw out there is one is the anxious, and we're talking about attachment theory. One is the anxious partner. And the other one is the, why am I Drawing a blank today. Avoidant. Thank you. The anxious and the avoidant. And you're Mr. Anxious, it seems like, and she's Miss Avoidant. Pretty common dynamic. How the opposites attract and they find each other is always kind of funny, but pretty common scenario. I'm sorry. And, uh, how do you get past this? Well, you both work on— you work on your problems and come more to center, to more secure, and stop chasing her around all over the damn place. And she comes more to center and she, you know, opens up more. All right, I'm willing to talk. I'm willing to do things. I'm willing to whatever. So you got to find that middle ground where you both can come together. Pretty hard. From what I've seen, by nature of the anxious person, the pursuer and everything, they always want to put in work, it seems like. So when I come to them and I go, I got a book for you or a course or a YouTube video or something like that, the anxious person's like, yes, yes, whatever it takes so I can bridge the gap between myself and the avoidant person. Just whatever I got to learn. Well, on the other hand, by virtue of their nature, the avoidant's like, "I've read enough. Just stop with the bullshit, with the constant trying to fix things and stuff. Can we just not?" Makes things really difficult. So often in the online circles, you'll see the anxious person kind of painted as the angel, the victim, and the avoidant person's the devil. They're the one putting up the wall. They're not exactly wrong, but it's not the full story. The anxious people have a lot of work to do themselves, which a lot of them learn after the fact, after they get out of that relationship and they go on to the next relationship and they go, "God damn it, I did it again. And here I was, I thought the love, the new love of my life is telling me to back off and stop being so needy. I've heard that before." Maybe you got something to work on, right?
