Interview With Coach J

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. In the Dad Starting Over world, if you are in the DSO fraternity, which is our private group for men only, dsopaternity.com. You know this gentleman very well. He's gone by a couple of different names for good reason. We'll get into that a little bit. He used to go by the, the fake internet name of Jack London and is now using his real name of Jason, or Coach J for short. I call him Coach because that's what he is. He's a coach within the Dad Starting Over organization. In fact, he was, other than myself, the first Numero uno coach in this group. And you joined, do I want to say 4 years ago now, Jason?

Yeah, January of 2020.

Wow, that was fast, wasn't it?

Yeah, went by in a blink, man.

Yeah, so when I first started The World of Dad Starting Over, wrote the books, decided to make a men's group, and we had these live Zoom meetings. And there was a dude that was attending the Zoom meetings that was, you know, certain dudes always stick out in the meetings as being like, uh, getting involved and giving good advice and listening and asking good questions. And you're just like, I like it when this dude is in on the calls. And there was one dude in particular, particular, that called himself Jack London, and I really liked his stuff and got to know him. And I said, we need to bring you into the fold of the Dad Starting Over world, make you an official coach, make you host some meetings yourself. You're that good at it. And the rest is history. And since then, we've hired, shoot, 6 other gentlemen, I believe, since then. And the organization has grown. If there's one thing that I pride myself on as a businessman— want to call me that, maybe a bit of a stretch— is my ability to recognize, oh, this one's good, I better hang on to this dude. And I had a business mentor years ago who's now— his company has grown to multi-tens of millions of dollars. No, that's not true, multi-hundreds of millions of dollars. And, um, he gave me a little nugget of advice years ago, is that when you got a good one You hang on to them. You don't try to have a position and find the right person. You have the right person, hang on to them and say, I'll find something for you to do. Because when they're good, that's relatively rare and you want to hang on to a really good dude. And that's what I did with Jason. We got to figure out something for Jason because this is just— he's a military man, straight shooter, a lot of good life experience. We'll get into your military background, but you helped counsel men in your military career as well, which you have now retired from. Enlisted dude. And so I guess a long-winded way of me saying, Jason, we are so lucky to have you, dude. You've been awesome in the group, and it's time that we share with the world more Jason and talk about what brought you to the world of Dad Starting Over and the latest happenings, which have been quite interesting, to say the least. So where to begin, my friend? Maybe we should start with your military background. I don't know how much you want to share about that.

Yeah, so I, I go by Coach J. My friends call me Jay. Uh, um, 22 years in the United States Army. Uh, you know, I, I joined right out of high school right after, uh, the attacks on our country on September 11, 2001, and, um, retired as a senior noncommissioned officer, a career infantry guy. So what most people think that all soldiers do, you know, the green army guy running around with rifles and blowing shit up and killing bad guys. Very, very few people actually do that in the military. But that was a very, very low-level explanation of my body of work, you know. In doing that, yeah, one of the things they're educated on, again, People are astounded by this, but, uh, you know, just, you don't see it in corporate America and a lot of your, your big companies, mentorship and coaching and professional development, people, leadership that actually cares about you and your family. And it is built in Army culture, uh, for you to be that type of leader. And if you're not, they're going to get rid of you. Uh, they need those types of leaders in the military. Um, so yeah, you're, you're professionally educated. Uh, each time you're promoted, you go through different, uh, training and things like that, and you become better and better and get, you know, before you know it, rack up 10, 15, 20 years of professional development and coaching experience. And what I did was simply translate that to the world of relationships, which is pretty easy to do. Critical thinking, problem solving, and, uh, you know, being really telling people, hey, uh, you, you've got to live in the reality that you're in, not the one you wish you were in. Uh, here is the actuals right here, dude, and how this plays out over time, more likely than not. And let's quit acting like we're, you know, Tom Brady with possession of the football and, you know, on the 30-yard line, 20 seconds left in the game. You're not Tom Brady, homie. Uh, you know, let's, you know, quit, uh, playing underdog and, and maybe take more of that dark horse mentality, which is a lot more effective. Go back to your lab, work on yourself, re-emerge and come out of nowhere and go conquer all the things that you want to conquer.

Yeah, but Coach Jay, that's tough.

It is. Flat out, some men are not going to do it. Some people, you know, I think a very depressing way to look at it, Ralph, is there are averages for a reason. And I'm just being honest. Most people are average and they will not do what's required to excel. They just won't. Mentally too hard, physically too hard, whatever it is.

A predominant theme that we hear a lot in— probably, to be honest with you, more so with the general public on my Dad's Turning Over social media pages and stuff— is that, uh, you know, they'll look at my material and see stuff about this kind of self-improvement, that kind of self-improvement, things we've learned from our failed relationships and stuff. And some men get downright irate and say, that's cool and everything, but that doesn't help me. It's like, okay, what is it you need? And what it gets down to is, I'm really hurting right now. I feel like I've been kicked in the balls by life and I want this pain to stop. Make it stop, please! How do I just make it stop like now? Because I don't want to do this anymore. I can't go on feeling bad like this. And it's like, dude, I get it. Yeah, but all this stuff that we're talking about, that's it, man. You've been given the tools. It's just that it sucks and it takes a long-ass time and you gotta go through it. You know, I read my baby girl a story about going on a bear hunt. Can't go around it, can't go over it, gotta go through it. And a lot of people don't— men and women alike, not just picking on men— don't like to hear that. Like, yeah, you're gonna suffer, it's gonna be hell, and it's gonna suck. Gotta do it, dude. Gotta go through it.

Yeah, no, I, I mean, isn't that a big, uh, life thing? It is not easy to get into the gritty areas of your life and grind out those hard minutes of your life, you know. Uh, it's not fun, it's not sexy, it is not what you want to do, but it is what you have to do. And I think, uh, I'm gonna pick on social media a little bit. Uh, both men and women, you know, they sit on their phone and they just scroll and they look at everybody else's lives and how great— man, they're missing out on everything. And, you know, around the next corner, you know, is the, the next adventure or anything. Well, you know, all these people that are, uh, able to do that worked hard for many years. More often than not, the story is a version of the same. They worked hard for many years to get the financial assets and, you know, the, the time and space and freedom to do those types of things. And if you want that you have to work hard. And, uh, that is like the, the adult, uh, delusion really that both men and women, uh, have a lot of in, in my view, uh, these days. They don't want to go through those hard minutes of their life. Going back to what you were saying, yeah, a lot of men in the comments, they, they are hurting, and, and I'm very empathetic to that. But at some point there has to be a realization of, okay, man, we've cried about it enough. You've waited around for the man in the masked cape and the— or the mask and the cape to come crashing through the wall like Kool-Aid Man. And it hasn't happened. And it ain't looking any better tomorrow, buddy. Why don't you take up the fight for yourself and get maybe a little bit of a mean streak in you, get a little bit angry about your situation. And go get it. Uh, my coaching is very much, uh, on the principle of life is a game largely of possession, like any contact, uh, sport is really, you know. And maybe that's attractive to some men, and it definitely is, and unattractive to other groups of men. That's all right. I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but that don't make me not a cup of tea, man.

Um, So, okay, so that begs the question then, you, you, you're a tough dude. You got it going on, Mr. Military Man. You got it figured out, right? Well, what is it that brought you initially to the world of Dad Starting Over?

Yeah. Um, so I, I was married for, uh, 15 years and, uh, I would characterize that marriage largely as very good. Um, you know, my ex, uh, is a good person. Deep down a good woman, deep down a good mom, deep down. And I'll kind of get more into that here in a little bit. But I was in a very, very demanding and difficult duty position. I was in the Basic Combat Training Enterprise for the Army, running a basic combat training company. And it's very thankless, unforgiving, and a ton of hours. You're not deploying anywhere, but it, I mean, you're running on 3, 4 hours of sleep with one day off a week, you know, for 40 of the 52 weeks a year, you know, and you're, you're run ragged. You lose a lot of your life, a lot of yourself. And I was completely miserable as a result of that. Um, I, I was, uh, you know, I've learned a lot, you know, looking back at it, but, uh, I, I became a really miserable dude. I, I'm a big hunter. I'm a big— I, I love, uh, you know, going out and training with my firearms and all these different important man things that, uh, I did on the weekend, and my validation had gone all the way down to the physical intimacy with my wife, which was very, very good throughout my marriage. And, um, you know, we were, we were very well matched on in that area for sure. But, uh, I began to get rejected in the bedroom, and I'm like, what the hell is this, man? I'm fit. Um, I'm not, you know, bugging her all the time. I'm, I'm my own dude. I'm, I'm looking, I'm like, what the hell is going on? Um, and I wasn't really looking for answers on the internet. That seems to be a very common thing with a lot of men. That wasn't me. Uh, I happened to get rejected that night, uh, and it's like 2, 3 in the morning. I woke up randomly and I began to death scroll and there happens to be a Facebook ad for The Dead Bedroom Fix. And I got, you know, roped into the large net of, you know, middle-aged-ish men, you know, in the algorithm. And the front cover of the book struck me. I'm like, I know exactly what that is. I can tell you exactly what's on that dude's mind. And I go, I read the very convincing little blurb on it. And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to get a hardback or paper copy of The Jam. It was like $7, $8 on Amazon back then. And I got it. I read it in like a day and a half. And the way it was written was very, very attractive, very direct to the point, very much how I am., and it got me to examine some things. And it really— the one thing it did for me, I was not far off the mark. I really wasn't. I, I had— I wasn't doing a lot of the mistakes. I was already in shape, uh, but I, I exposed myself to, hey, you've, you've got to woo her, romance her, you've got to get engaged, and you can't put your marriage on autopilot.. And I began to really look at myself and, uh, what can I do, uh, to be a better dude? And I just merely applied what was written. And then that opened a whole rabbit hole of, you know, I don't know how many other books I've read and, you know, gotten into, uh, the men's self-help arena. And I would call it a midlife awakening as opposed to a midlife crisis, uh, you know. And I chose to go hard in the paint and, uh, fix my bullshit and did. And I also know that I will always have to be very aware of those things, uh, you know. They say a leopard doesn't change its spots. Um, yes and no. I do believe that, uh, you can recognize that maybe some of those spots aren't very good and be hyper-aware and attuned, in tune with yourself that, hey, I'm kind of, you know, coming off the rails a little bit. I need to redirect. And in that, we all have to do that at some point or don't do it and suffer the consequences, you know. But that, that in short is what brought me into DSO. After that, I got really involved in the Facebook group. And, you know, just really did what I did in the Army. Look at a problem, help guys identify resources and build a plan of action, bulletized for them, and then go, go do it and let them go do it and then support them through it. And then you reached out to me one day randomly. I'm in the garage working and I get a Facebook message and 'Hey, who the hell are you? Tell me about you,' you know, and all that. And, you know, you offered me a position and it came out of nowhere. I'm like, what are the odds of reading a book, joining a Facebook group, and then getting recruited by the author? I'm like, I felt a little bit good about myself that day. Like, that was pretty cool.

Yeah. So, but, you know, it It illustrates the point of, uh, you and thousands of other men. What I've learned over the years of marketing and stuff is how do you get people to take action? It's kind of just poke them where it hurts the worst. And what we've learned over the years from doing all this and talking to so many married men is where does it hurt the worst? The old bedroom's just not, you know, measuring up to what they thought it should be, they think it should be. And, uh, it's, it surprises a lot of women to hear You know, when I say, what's the number one pain point for married men? Bedroom stuff. They go, really? It's that important? Yeah. And when it's lacking, it causes a lot of men to go on the internet and start seeking out answers. And I, I know you weren't seeking at the time, but then I put a little ad in your face and say, does this look familiar with the picture? And you're like, yep. And I don't like it. And I don't like it to the point of plunking down a few bucks and, and buying a book and joining a group and Welcome to the club. But what we've all learned, that gets you in the door, but once they're in the door, we have guys that are divorced, married, thinking about getting married, dating after divorce, all this other stuff, and all their issues all blend together. Sure, they initially, most of them had that initial kick in the butt with, here's a book about, you know, improving the bedroom. I'm divorced, I don't want to do that shit again, or I'm in the middle of a shitty marriage and I'd like to fix it, whatever the case may be, that got them in the door. But once they're in the door, they realize, ah, it's a lot more to it than just doing the old hokey pokey in, in the bedroom. It's just symptomatic of a lot of bigger problems.

Yeah, I agree. And you know, when I take guys on in coaching, and, and largely my message is quit worrying about that, uh, because you're, you're trying to get this outcome that requires a lot of work prior and you can't just teleport there. You have to be willing to go on that journey if you really want to create the habits and build the discipline to be that holistically, you know, high value dude. I've kind of grown to hate that term, honestly, or that phrase. A good dude, a great guy, a catch. You know, a guy that—

all around dude—

the vast majority that men and women like, and women are attracted to, uh, you know, from a relationship and sexual standpoint, you know. But an all-around attractive dude to everyone. People want to be around you, um, they want to be in your company, they want to do business with you, um, you know, all, all those things. What does it take to get there? Well, you, you can't just, you know, read a book and read a bunch of books and then do nothing to apply it. No, man, you have to unfat yourself. Hey, man, you have to, um, you know, work on, on that whole validation thing and getting, uh, validation out of all these different buckets in your life. Um, hey, you've got to quit being up her ass and humping her leg all the time and bugging her about having sex and being your own dude. Hey, you need to get more involved with, uh, the kids and know their doctors and their, their dentists and, uh, you know, go hard in the paint there. The work never stops. And, uh, on yourself and looking at, um, what it really takes to be that guy, you know, building that, making that your life, it's a hell of a lot of work. And some people just aren't willing to do what's required. Yes, a very, very frustrating thing. If it were easy, everybody would be that guy, and going back, uh, there the average would be much higher than it is, you know.

And it's not only— or it's not everybody willing to do it, I, I think some people just ain't wired for it, and that's okay, man, you know. Yeah, that's what I tell a lot of guys, like, you know, some guys fresh out of divorce are just sitting there kind of despondent because they've been, you know, let's say divorced for several years and dating, they go, you know, I don't think I want to do the marriage thing all over again. I don't really think that interests me at all. I'm like, okay, then you're not going to get any shit from me. That's whatever. There's a big societal pressure for a lot of guys, like you're kind of a deadbeat loser type if you're not hitched to a woman and showing your value, damn it, you know, to the society. To which I say no, or you're selfish for, you know, or all that.

And You know, going back, thinking about my life years ago, I used to look at these divorced people as like damaged and like, how can you make that work? And man, look at what I got going. And here I am, one of those, you know, in the bag of, you know, the unwashed masses, we'll call it. You know, here I am, one of those dudes. And all that. Um, well, good. You know, and I look at it very, very differently now. Um, and I— that began to change once I really educated myself on all the drivers to this. And, you know, no, it doesn't mean that both people are hopelessly, uh, you know, uh, train wrecks. You know, there's a lot of stories within the nuance.

Yeah, on both sides. Yeah, for sure. We've learned over the years not every man, you You know, it's human nature to present your side of the story and paint yourself as the angel and look what this horrible person did. But sure as shit, when you dig into it, you're just like, "Dude, you're no angel, my man. You did quite a bit." And one of the big things, you know, not everybody's innocent. At the very least, one of your problems, if you're listening to this and you're a divorced dude and everything went to shit, I can guarantee you at the very least, We can point to issues that you should— should's a strong word— you should have known early on in the relationship to make you say, whoa, timeout. This is— let's, let's take a breather here. Let's not jump into getting married and have 8 kids and everything, you know, after knowing each other for 6 months. Maybe we should just, uh, take a timeout here. That's where a lot of men are guilty there. At least combine that with years and years of compounding bullshit from both sides and it ends up terribly, which is a good segue into When you first started, going back to your story of, you know, you were in this relationship, everything was going great except for you dropped the ball, dead bedroom situation, albeit relatively briefly. You read the book, you join our group, things are going great. But you alluded to it early on, you're divorced now. What happened?

Yeah, so I'll kind of— we got to roll the tape back a little bit, and I think we'd be selling ourselves a bit, uh, uh, short. Uh, I want to tell the, the whole story because I've literally run the, I think, uh, the pretty much the whole gamut of, of, uh, the DSO world and different things that can happen in there. More, more true than untrue for sure. So I read the book, I get you know, I, I get energized. I, I, uh, start crushing it. And I looked at, okay, we, we coach guys and tell guys, look at you, look your— look at yourself in the mirror, get with a coach and identify your problems that you need to work at. Quit looking at her, uh, you know, you cannot, uh, you know, look at her and say, hey, you need to fix it before you're setting that, uh, example, or else, you know, where, where, uh, are you really coming from, you know? Um, you really can't do that. You don't really have the clout to do that. And you do need a little bit of clout in these situations to say, oh well, honey, um, I've eclipsed you, or I'm rapidly eclipsing you, and you know, you've got some work to do too, or maybe you don't, and uh, you know, we'll, we'll just, uh, call it. So I, I identified multiple things within myself. Uh, I had a lot going for me. I had a great foundation, a great base on a lot of levels. Um, started off in a much more advanced, uh, level than a lot of the, the men, you know. I was already in great shape, um, successful in my career, very masculine, very dominant. A-type guy, all in. Not that that's everything, but it definitely— I would never have it any other way, uh, for sure, as a dude. Um, but I, I had some things I had to look at, you know. I had some combat trauma. Um, I, I was a heavy drinker for many, many, many years. And around May of 2020, I looked at the hypocrisy that of me you know, helping soldiers with their drinking problems, yet me, I'm drinking, you know, a lot of bourbon every night and then waking up and feeling like shit and gutting it out during, uh, you know, our workouts in the morning and everything. And I'm like, what a bag of shit I am for doing that. And, uh, I, I'd had enough. And I just remember that moment, I was so disgusted with myself. And so I admitted myself into an Army treatment program. It was outpatient. You know, I basically— they, they took my blood and urine tests, and if I would have tested positive for alcohol, they could have kicked me out of the Army. And I put my back up against the wall willingly like that to change. Was never diagnosed as an alcoholic, but a moderate alcohol abusers, what they, they told me. Went through a lot of therapy, and really the most profound thing I found out of that was looking at my relationship with alcohol and realizing that it literally brings me nothing into my life. It doesn't benefit me in any way. Uh, could I argue, yeah, I've had some, uh, fun, you know? Oh, hell yeah, you know, I've, I've had my, my heyday for sure. Um, you know, it's not bad for that. But I've done a lot of dumb shit, you know, drinking. And I realized, man, I could have been a hell of a lot of leader, or a better leader, a better father, a better husband. And I just don't need this shit anymore. And I, I went dry for 6 months, completely changed my outlook on it, and I really don't drink a whole lot anymore, um, you know, uh, so that was a big thing, uh, focused on, uh, myself, my validation, got back into my hobbies, I got into a routine, um, you know, started— I just had this renewed energy that I applied all over, uh, in my life, and really I dusted off those lover skills and for about the next year and a half after that, life got really good. My relationship with my then-wife really improved. You know, we were back to regular physical intimacy 3, 4+ times a week, and that was sustained and mutual and good. You know, I was everywhere crushing it. Um, and we, we were having a great time going on trips, going on dates, man. We— it was great, man. Um, and then it, it, uh, a few things happened. Uh, my ex kind of had a falling out with her dad. Uh, you know, she is from, uh, a broken home. Her parents divorced when she was a teenager, and I think you know, if I put on my, you know, rena psychologist hat on real quick, you know, she had some anxiety and abandonment type issues from that. And she is probably the worst person I've ever met in my life when it comes to communicating their emotions, which is pretty odd for a woman, actually. Very, very different. Um, and I didn't even realize that until my mother-in-law told me a couple of years ago, and I'm like, Wow, man, I never even thought about it like that. And you're 100% right. Um, yeah, so that, that happened. And then I attempted to retire from the Army the first time and, uh, they went cheap on me and, uh, uh, said, nope, you're going to play extra innings. You're going to move to this new, uh, duty station. The catch is when you get there, you owe the Army 2 more years. I had just been hired by a major firearms manufacturer for my dream job. I had to let that go. I had this great plan and it was like all the things that we had worked so hard for were ripped. The rug was pulled out from underneath of us. So I sat the family down and I said, hey, this is not what we want, but there are a lot of upgrades to where we're moving. We've done this before. I gotta go there. We're gonna get through this together. Here are all the upsides to it. We need to focus on that and go all in on that and we'll figure it out. And people kept saying, everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. And you know that, yeah, I'll buy it for a dollar, sure. And what happened shortly after that, around the fall of 2021, my spouse was also a heavy drinker throughout our entire marriage. And I think she was using that as a coping mechanism and as a way to, you know, calm that anxiety, clinical levels of anxiety that she had, that she would do nothing about. And around the fall of 2021, I began to come home and notice her passed out at 2, 3 in the afternoon. She would routinely miss family dinner, uh, default on her obligations, uh, was not cooking, not cleaning, not doing anything. She had a remote job and she was able to game the system. And, you know, uh, that, that was an enabling environment for her to drink all day. And then she knew when the boss was offline and she became offline. And, you know, I knew what she had to get done that day, and then she, you know, sipped on, you know, her White Claws and wine. And then it all adds up, and it got worse and worse and worse from there. I did the good husband thing, supported her. Hey, I cannot tell you, Ralph, how many times I grabbed her by the shoulders and like, baby, what What do we need to do? We need to get you in for a well-woman appointment. Um, you know, we, we got to handle the, the alcohol issue. We need to get you in front of a therapist. And it was like talking to a brick wall. Um, she was not, um, receptive to any of that. And, uh, she just literally would do nothing. Uh, it showed me that she was deeply depressed. And, and a lot of other things. So we ended up moving. I got my mother-in-law involved. She was the first call I made in the fall of 2021. Hey, I've never called you at any point in our marriage to talk about your daughter. Here's the ground situation. I need your help. She had, uh, and I come to find out that both sides of her family had massive addiction issues. That were not known to me, uh, and even if I knew that, you know, we talk about red flags all the time, dude. Okay, in your early 20s, you are not equipped to deal with that knowledge. Yeah, you can read all the fucking books you want to. You're a young man. You're about to fuck it up, dude. Um, and I hope that, you know, me looking at my kids now I'm basically probably going to corner them and be like, look, motherfucker, you know, and, you know, get them to understand somehow. But me, you know, being an Army guy, geographically isolated from all family and everything, I didn't have any, you know, no one regularly seeing me and, you know, my bride-to-be and you know, asking those questions. You know, I don't— I'm not blaming that on my family. I'm just saying that that is not, um, you know, the norm for everyone. You know, you, you're both in a town with your family, and a lot of times that, that's a story, and they can kind of— friends and family can give you a heads up on things. I didn't, I didn't have that.

Yeah, you know, it's going back to what kicked all this off with the drinking and everything. Um, you know, we can quote people make excuses. People hate doing that, especially victims of abuse and infidelity, and the spouse is the addict and so forth. They don't want to hear like excuse, but it's fruitful to sit here and try and study and go, "What the hell happened?" And, I think it's very similar to what the hell happened when some guy discovers that his wife's been banging half the town and screwing around everything else. When you talk to those guys, those kind of stories are usually also precipitated by some what we call a giant holy shit moment. And you pointed out dad dying. You pointed out, hey, we have to, you know, pull up roots and move across the country to—

That was a big one. Parts of the world. You know, and your grandma that she was very close with died, you know, during that time too. And all these things, and then, you know, our entire life she had went hook, line, and sinker into, hey, you know, We're staying here. You know, we've got a house bought. We've— you, you've got a great career ahead of you. And we're about ready to reap the benefits of, you know, a 20-year retirement on the High-3 system that I was grandfathered into, you know, from the military. And that all got, you know, stripped away and we had to begin again. I knew that. I thought I did a good job of messaging that and communicating that to the family, but she just fell apart in all the areas. And I think there were a lot of things that just kind of collapsed down. So getting into the, you know, that next spring, spring of '22, we move, I start a new job., and then we get into the chaos, you know, uh, multiple hospital visits with, uh, I, I think the first one she had a blood alcohol level of 0.422. Uh, that is not an exaggeration, 0.422. I, the nurse had to repeat it to me 3 times because I had never in my life heard or met anyone that had ever attained a blood alcohol content, um, of that, that much. I couldn't believe it. I'm like, man, I've had some real benders, man. I've never come close to that. And I, I began to educate myself on addiction. I, I find myself fortunate that my family doesn't have those issues. I, I was very ignorant on the natural progression of addiction. Of course, I've seen a million, I know a million high-functioning alcoholics. They're rampant in the military and your high-stress public service, emergency service, your law enforcement, your, you know, all those types. And, you know, a bunch of my peers were heavy drinkers for years. I was one for heavy years.. And I get it, but they were always able to manage it. And what I was witnessing was a full-on collapse. And every time I would try to get her to, you know, do something about it in a very loving way, she would just look at me and it was like I was looking right through her. It was the craziest thing in the world. I wasn't talking to a human. Or she would push me away or act like a petulant child. So June of 2021, we went back to my parents' house and she began in the months prior to that hiding alcohol, empty and full containers all over our home. You know, imagine pulling out a towel and 5 or 6 empty cans come rolling out. You know, that happened at my parents' house. How embarrassing. I laid down a boundary. If I, I went, uh, on the river to go fishing, and, uh, when I, I told her the day before, if I come home and you're drunk or you, you're, you know, throwing cans everywhere and all this stuff, you're gonna pack up all your stuff and I'm gonna drive you all the way back, uh, 6-hour drive to where we lived in Tennessee, and then I'm going to turn right back around and drive home. And finish my vacation with the kids. Next day, literally, I show up, she's drunk, and I go to take a shower, and literally everything I just said, uh, happened. And I, I told her, pack up all your shit and, uh, get in the vehicle, say goodbye to the kids, and you're going home, and I'm gonna finish the vacation with the kids. Um, so after that, she went to rehab, for the first time. Uh, she has now been to rehab 5 times. Um, you know, and, and I guess from there, the, the short version of a very, very long fucked up story is, uh, you know, the— I came to a point in August of 2022, I had my, uh, second knee surgery that morning. And I gave her an ultimatum. You've got one week to get into an alcohol treatment center. There's a caveat there. Sometimes there's, you know, insurance and paperwork and you're on a waitlist. Do the work, set the conditions, get into treatment, get on a waiting list, get the insurance, because you cannot do that for them because of HIPAA and all that. Dude, I, I tried everything you, unless you have some kind of power of attorney over their healthcare stuff, you can't do it. You're literally powerless. Um, the doctors won't talk to you, they won't make appointments, they won't do shit for you. They have to do it for themselves. I told her, you've got a week. Uh, she went to— looked me in the eyes, grabbed open a fresh White Claw, cracked it open, chugged the whole thing, threw it in the trash, burped in my face and said, "Fuck you." I will never forget that and I'll never be disrespected like that. And I said, "Okay." So I waited for the full week to elapse, 24 hours prior to my ultimatum expiring, the deadline expiring, said, "Hey, what's it gonna be? What are you gonna do?" And she just looked at me and didn't do anything. She was drunk. The next day when it expired at 12 noon, I went out, took a deep breath, and hired my attorney and filed for divorce. Um, and it was 100% the right, uh, decision. I would do it 1,000% again. Um, you have no choice in that situation. Um, now This doesn't mean that I was perfect, but what I— I've told many people this— the end of my marriage is not my fault. I will not take any responsibility for her addiction, because if you know anything about addiction, it's not about the— the non-addicted partner did not cause it. It is a disease that they have. Um, it's not my fault. That doesn't mean that I haven't grown and there aren't things that I'll continue to address and grow. I'm not perfect, you know, um, and that's very— and a very important distinction to make for me. So, um, in the course of the divorce, we went through a lot of things. She got a DUI, she assaulted me and got arrested for domestic violence. Child endangerment. Child Protective Services was called to our home 4 times. She's been in and out of court. Uh, mediation happened, uh, she defaulted on it immediately. I got a parenting agreement thrown out, um, and she— I mean, I could go through a million different things that we, we could spend 5 hours, uh, going through, but I, I've been through an incredibly, uh, messy divorce. Um, I've had to put all 3 of my kids in counseling, and at the moment I have full custody of all 3 of my children, and I'm the breadwinner. It's a very rare position, a position, uh, you were in. Uh, that's a rare thing for a dude. Um, pretty much when people say— find out that, you know, a woman doesn't have her kids they automatically know the story, where the opposite is not exactly true, you know. But yeah, it's been a hell of a battle and we still got more to come, unfortunately. But sorry to hear that. The light is at the end of the tunnel.

What a story though. My goodness. I mean, we wish her all the best. I hope she figures that shit out. I mean, I hope she looks back on these years and learns a lot and just says, time to move on to a new chapter and do things right. But oof, you know, what's it going to take is the question. You know, the— if you wake up in the gutter moment, I think she's had those. I know not literally, but you know what I mean, the giant holy shit moment that wakes you up from this. She had the giant holy shit moment which led to this negative coping mechanism of alcohol and everything else. Um, now she needs a giant holy shit of 'What have I done?' And I've lost my family, I've lost my kids, I've lost everything. And she hasn't hit that yet, and she may not. And that sucks, um, but we wish her all the best. And, uh, okay, so here's the difficult question. Not— and this isn't to beat you up, it's to learn from the experience, which is— and, you know, I've gone on and on about my situation and what I've learned, but looking back— and I know you met her when you were, what, early 20s, late teens?

I was like 21, uh, she was 20. I'm just under 2 years older than her.

You were a baby still, so yeah, it's— but, but it's good to learn from those mistakes. Looking back, are there moments where you go, yeah, I should have seen this coming? This was in— this was— the writing was on the wall. I just was too young and dumb to see it. Or not?

Yeah, um, there were a couple of, uh, lies early on in our relationship that, uh, you know, I, I should have paid more attention to. Um, and then definitely, you know, she, she was, uh, partying. But, and again, I've told a lot of people this, man, uh, most of the people you meet in your early 20s are heavy drinkers coming out of college, you know, that party phase of your life. That is hard to look at as a red flag, in my opinion. You would be red flagging the majority of people. Okay, a large percentage of those people will not, uh, you know, have addiction issues later in life. Some of them will, uh, you know, uh, what I should have done a better job of was looking at Mom and Dad, slowing the roll down and, and all that, and taking a lot more time, um, You know, and I, I think I kind of made the classic military guy mistake, you know, of being a young dude. And here I am in the height of a two-front global war on terror, you know, a year deployed, a year back training, a year deployed, a year back training. And I wanted what, you know, everybody else had. And I think I should have let a little more time go on and look at it. And there were a few things that I, you know, looking back now where I should have, you know, took a deeper look at those things for sure. I've definitely thought about it. You know, do I ultimately regret it? No, we had a great marriage, the vast majority of it. She, you know, was a great spouse to me, where a lot of women in Army military spouses are pieces of shit, to be honest with you. They're—

what is— I mean, stop you there. The military is notorious for dramatic, chaos-filled relationships, to the point where if you hear of a relationship that's relatively calm and lasts for decades and decades and it's military-based, you're like, really?

You know, it, it takes an extraordinarily strong woman, uh, to be in that environment. The right type of independence, uh, you know, okay alone. She understands that she, uh, is marrying the, the lifestyle, uh, you know, no different than a professional athlete's spouse, you know, their husband is going to be gone a lot of the time. You know, they are in their own pressure cooker to perform on a, you know, multi-night-a-week basis and, you know, do all this stuff, you know. In the military, same thing, you know, high stress, a lot of work hours. A lot of training at all hours of the day and night and on the weekends. Um, and your work-life balance is very, very, very difficult to achieve. Um, and, you know, really commanders have to do a better job of looking at that and balancing mission requirements. Uh, but it— most women, most people are not cut out for it. Flat out. Um, it doesn't make, you know, uh, military men bad, or there's this thing that they're all cheaters. Man, come on. No, definitely not true. Uh, it's not made of a bunch of, uh, bros and womanizers and playboys. They're definitely, you know, a good amount of those guys, but, um, you know, that is not the, the, uh, predominant demographic for sure. Um, that you, you have to look at the, the lifestyle, and, and I think it is a grind. You have to be of that adventurous mindset that you're going to be moving every few years and, uh, uh, starting out over again in a new area. And if you're not okay with that, if you're more of the, the homebody and I want to, you know, homestead or plant roots, uh, you're you're not going to be able to do that unless you're in the National Guard or something, you know. Um, active duty, no, you're going to move around and you have to, you know, be okay with that lifestyle. So, uh, also, uh, to pick on military men a little bit, uh, you go away, uh, for different schools and training and there is a lot of low-hanging fruit. Uh, there are a lot of opportunities, uh, to step outside your marriage, and a lot of men do fall for that, unfortunately. You know, I, I never did. I don't agree with that, but doesn't make me as special or awesome. I, I just didn't default on my marriage vows, you know, one checkbox, you know.

There's also not only just the infidelity thing, but there's a lot of opportunity just to get in trouble, period, when you're a military guy. I mean, go to any military base like Fort Knox near here, and you know you're getting close to the base. Why? Because it's pawn shop, pawn shop, pawn shop, liquor store, liquor store, strip club, strip.

Yeah.

And, uh, so it's, you know, it's a stereotype for a reason. Those, those businesses there to take advantage of young, dumb, early 20s military guys that are in high stress situations, just ready to burn off some, some steam. And, um, yeah, it's a— can you imagine then, okay, on top of all that, let's throw marriage in the mix and kids? Like, no wonder it just blows up all the time.

I think that's why, you know, you're when you get into leadership positions, they professionally educate you and coach you to be a better coach, a life— I hate this term, but life coach of, you know, men and women, because they know that readiness is a top priority in the military. If you're not ready to deploy, you're essentially useless, you know, medically, mentally. You know, in your family life, your personal life. If you don't have your affairs in order, you're not an asset to the team. And it takes that engaged leadership to build a team of men and women that are capable of doing what we need to do.

But what a perfect example of it takes two to tango because you can be the most, quote, alpha male leader, family organizer. This is what we're going to do. Stay on top of it type of dude. But how rare is it to find a partner who's also wired that way? Yes! Pick up, we'll go wherever you want, husband! I'll run the fort while you're gone, you know, you'll be gone for months at a time, that's cool, I got it and I'll keep, you know, an even temperament. I will keep chaos at bay. I'm no drinky, no— yeah! Good luck finding that person!

My hat goes off to all the spouses that are doing it right out there. It is a huge amount of sacrifice on their part. It is not easy and truly remarkable to have a good marriage that is worth staying in and have went through a career in the military or even a period of service. Uh, I, I mean, truly remarkable, uh, the things that, uh, the spouses have to handle and wear both— wear all these hats. You know, especially a lot of them are very young women, uh, and their first time away from home. And, um, you know, so the ones that make it happen, I, I mean, I'm, I'm wowed by that. As much as that 80-year-old couple with, you know, the man sitting on the park bench, uh, you know, with the, the woman on, on the— laying her head on, uh, husband's, uh, you know, shoulder, and they're holding hands. And every time I I see that, I stop and I go, give me your take. How'd you make it work? And they laugh and they make jokes most of the time. In fact, I saw it yesterday and I talked to this older couple and I go, what's the formula? And, you know, they're like, man, very few people ask that. And they go, it's tough. It takes essentially two people that are going to, you know, act like adults and work through their problems. And, uh, you know, remember who they're talking to, you know, your husband, your wife, the person you committed to, and going all in on that and believing in the cause and letting your actions, uh, show it. And you got the thing they tell me.

Excellent. So Coach Jay, the divorce is about done, right? Uh, looks like you're going to have your kiddos 100% of the time. You have officially retired from the Army, correct? What's next in store for you?

So I made one final move. My last 2 years in the Army were under fire, so to speak, the entire time with— it was almost like having your ex actively working against you as the enemy. Is how it felt. It became very difficult to get anything done. And I had to, you know, look at the smallest wins every day to give myself hope, you know. And I had some very— I consider myself a very, very mentally resilient person. I've, you know, thrived in combat multiple times. I've, you know, seen and done horrible things and all that and been through all these very unnatural things that people have no concept of. But this situation tested me in ways that I had never been tested. There's just something about it when it comes at you in a personal level and it starts affecting your children and Man, uh, it will, uh, it, it became very, very difficult. I, I had to, um, you know, over the past 2 years look at where am I going. I've got to pull me and my kids out of this shithole and, uh, look at where I really want to go. So, uh, you know, transitioning out of the Army, out of the military, is about an 18-month 2-year-long process. Uh, it's not giving in your 2-week notice and starting another company. You are literally, uh, building an entirely new life, lifestyle, literally everything. Imagine changing your every aspect of your life, uh, over a 2-year period. So I, I did an internship. I had 4 major, uh surgeries and went through all kinds of, you know, personal life struggle and all that. And while I was doing that, I had to look at where I was going to. I took an internship with a financial firm in Nashville, saw that kind of wasn't really the route I wanted to go. And I'm like, well, where— I've got to find a sense of purpose in my work. And what better way to do that than contribute to our defense mission? With me outside of the uniform. And so I looked at DOD contracting. I'm like, man, I've got a lot of skills that they need. And man, I went all in and worked with recruiters and everything, even DSO fraternity members, all kinds of people, and got down here and, you know, leveraged every tool I had and I'm in the final stages of locking down a great position doing exactly that and continuing to serve our nation's defense mission in a support role and looking forward to it. Great paying gig and offers great opportunities for growth in the future. And yeah, I mean, that's the employment side of it for sure.

And then on the Dad Starting Over side, we will still have you on board and helping when you can, when available, when you're available.

Yeah, absolutely. I plan on— I'll tell anybody, I'm a gun for hire, man. I want to work with you. I would love to be doing somewhere in between 5 and 10 coaching hours a week, you know, 1 to 2 per day. It's very validating for me. I love helping men that want to improve and are not fucking around. They're willing to do what it takes. Uh, that is who I'm targeting. Um, my coaching, kind of getting into my brand, if you will, I'm very much a generalist. Uh, I'm gonna look at your problem. Uh, I can talk about the dead bedroom stuff and work with you on that. Uh, but really the self-improvement and getting that, that mind battle battlefield that really is your mind. That is where I want to make my fight with that guy and, uh, get him to realize how things actually are and be okay with it. It ain't all fair, buddy. You know what? Who said it had to be? Stop caring about fair. Just freaking go, man. Identify what needs to happen and execute those, uh, things. Quit crying about fairness, man. I think a lot of people, they get stuck on the rules of what they thought, you know, the Disneyland effect of relationships and everything. Oh man, at the end of every Disney movie, you know, they've got the happy ending with the prince and the princess and anything and everything. And they don't, you know, look at them 5, 10 years down the road. You know, and all the work it takes to maintain that, uh, that is just a happily ever after. Well, uh, if you want that, it takes two people that are willing to work on themselves and work towards that goal. And the fact of the matter is, it ain't always going to be perfect, um, you know. So I, I've— a lot of my coaching work over the past two years has been shocker, uh, at the, uh, you know, working with, uh, guys that are, you know, struggling with the decision to divorce or actually going through one or about to, uh, go through it. And, um, I work with a lot of mindset, uh, strategies and things like that. And a project I'm working on now is an actual product of codifying all of that and making that a package, um, and structuring it, you know, uh, very much now is I, I view a lot of the coaching as being a traffic cop, uh, you know, you, you bring me your situation, I'm, you know, and all that, and bringing in all these resources and building a plan of action. While I still want to do that, there's utility in that, uh, I'm codifying my message and the things that I know that work, um, and not just in the divorce realm and, and all that, but, um, in the, uh, self-improvement category. Uh, started a book. I had to put that on hiatus. Uh, I just had too many irons in the fire and I want to do it right. But, uh, the premise of the book is I'm attacking the modern trope of this bumbling idiot dad. I, I can't stand it. The Homer Simpson—

I—

and one thing I want the, the listeners, uh, to know: you are making a choice if you are that guy. You are literally making the choice. No one is stopping you from being an incredible dude but you, period. You know, you, you go to any youth athletic, uh, event and most of the dads, uh, are built like a parking cone, completely unremarkable, um, are rolling around in sweatpants and Crocs for their dignity to drain out of, you know. And, and you're just like, dude, you are a fucking dustpan, buddy. And, and once you wake up from that and you realize, man, I should be the best person I can be for myself and for my family. My fucking family deserves me at my best, and even more so, I deserve me at my best. And that means I have to fight every day to be that guy, because it's too easy, uh, not to be that guy. Yeah, but here's the thing, a set of tools and a mindset to directly attack that, you know, that every, every TV show you watch The husband, oh my God, if wife wasn't there, the, the roof would collapse and everything. I'm tired of this shit. I'm tired of it. Make your choice, bud. Do you want to be like that, or, or do you want to be a bad motherfucker? I want you to be a bad motherfucker and be a warrior in your own right in every area of your life. And that's what I'm writing about.

We talk about, um, if your barometer for success in this world is, you know, getting laid getting women and all this stuff. Okay, cool. That's one way of looking at it. And then you talk to those guys and you'll hear this onslaught of this loser talk from a lot of guys like, "Well, women are only going for this very small percentage of dudes at the tippy top of the pyramid and why even bother? The work is too hard." Well, if there's any kernel of truth in what you said there about these men and you go to these events like my kids' football game or whatever and you're right, you look around, you go, "Seriously?" if that's illustrative of how it is out there in the general public, then to go from here to here, guys, how can you say this? The pickings are so slim out there for high-quality dudes or whatever, good all-around dudes. It doesn't take much to rise to the top, guys.

And I've been in the modern dating world, and I'm telling you, dude, it is not hard. And these women are wowed. Wowed by a dude that, uh, literally can do everything that they do short of nurturing, probably, uh, as good or better than they can. And they're, they're an awesome dad. They're physically fit. They're driven. Uh, you know, they know how to, uh, love a woman. They know how to treat a woman, uh, in all the right ways and all that. And they're an all-around great guy. You are a freaking catch. And one thing I will say about the fraternity members, there are very, very, very few of them that I have ever met that I didn't like. And one of the most valuable things to me is when you, you coach these guys over a period of time, you inevitably, at least I do, I become friends with a lot of them. Um, I'm like, I, I just get to know the intimate areas of their life so well, and, and I share my own things with them. Uh, I like to humanize myself in coaching sessions and to give them perspective. Um, I think it builds that mutual respect too. But you meet these guys online, and I think a lot of men, they, they come into something, they're kind of Oh man, you know, this is going to be a bunch of lonely guys in their, their parents' basement, a bunch of losers. And I don't see that at all. I see a bunch of very professional and talented men all over the world that are remarkable, that I learn a great deal from. And a lot of them don't probably know that I learn a great deal from them.

Sure.

And their stories and their professional, you know, endeavors and all that. And, uh, then you meet him at BroFest and you're like, man, everything I thought that dude was, he's even better than that. Like, an awesome dude. Like, completely the, the person that he portrayed himself to be is exactly who he is. And then boom, now you've got lifelong friends, man, all over the country. You kind of, uh, take the shortcut to You know, me living all over the country in the Army, I have friends all over now, you know, that you have the same ability to do that right now in the DSO fraternity. And anywhere you go, hey man, who's in the Seattle area? Oh, I am. Hey, let's go grab a beer or, you know, lunch or whatever, hit the gym or go to Puget Sound and throw oranges at the Seahawks. Seahawks, whatever, you know. Uh, I don't know, it's an idea.

Yeah, we're blessed to know a lot of different dudes. And in the group, the DSO Fraternity— for those listening, don't know what we're talking about, private group that we have for men only, dsofraternity.com. DSO stands for Dads Starting Over, in case that wasn't obvious. Um, but we got guys from all over the world. We talk about all over the US, they're all over the world. And we got a pretty big contingent in Australia. And, uh, the reason we get along so well is that we all have one thing in common. I just want to do better. And, you know, you talk about we're not a bunch of dudes, you know, living in the basement, you know, mom's basement or whatever. Some of us get to that point. Divorce kicks you between the balls and you're just like, I lost everything. And, um, hey, we're not going to turn you away. It's a temporary situation, dude, if that's what you're in. Living in your car, we've heard that one. Living in the basement, whatever it may be. Um, But if you want to do better and you want to learn from other guys who have the same mindset, if it's not our group, I recommend some kind of group. Some fraternal group with dudes, of like-minded dudes, is extremely important.

It's becoming more and more rare, uh, you know, you, you just, you look at teenagers nowadays, right? And go back to your teenage years, Ralph, and I'm sure they were a lot like mine. There are a lot of where, you know, you're involved in different activities. You're hanging out with the homies, you know, in between your job and sports activities and, you know, going out, getting in trouble on the weekends, maybe a little bit, going to parties. They all live in their freaking phones and video games now. And like, and you need to get out there and get eyeball to eyeball as much as you can with other good men and really find a dude or group of dudes that are at where you want to be. And, you know, more often than not, if you approach them men, those men, and you're humble about it, they're going to bring you in. And just be a good dude, and that's all that's required. Um, you know, and that can happen anywhere, uh, you know, the gym. You know, you go up to, uh, a guy in the gym and you're like, hey, I'm new here, I'm trying to better myself. Clearly you know what the hell you're doing. Uh, can we work out together? Would you take me under your wing? And that guy's going to be like, meet me here at 10 AM Monday to Friday and be ready to work. It— I, I think a lot of men psych themselves out, like, uh, they catastrophize, uh, you know, that simple thing.

There's a stupid, uh, societal trope or stereotype, whatever you want to call it, that men are mean, you know, get out of here wimp, get out of here wuss, we want nothing to do with you. And it's so far from the truth, it's not even funny. Like you talk about the most, the most, uh, alpha male testosterone-filled thing would be going to the gym to a bunch of meatheads and go up to the biggest meathead in the group who's all steroided out and just say, I don't know how to bench press, can you show me? You'll see a smile on that dude's face. Yeah, he will drop everything he's doing and you got a buddy, let's do this. And he'll catch you on the back, literally cheerlead for you too.

Get it, bro, one more, one more.

And we've heard from dudes in our group that are like, it's, it's comforting to know, it's surprising to know that this world exists out there, all these hyper-masculine dudes trying to help each other. I had no idea. I grew up as, you know, some guy says, I grew up as kind of a nerdy dude and an introvert and very anxious guy, and I was always scared of being involved in guys groups because I just thought I wouldn't belong. It's like, what, you're a dude, right? Yeah, come on in. I— that's all it takes.

I want, um, the listeners to walk away from, uh, uh, our, our chat today with 3 things. 3: you and your family deserve you at your best. And that is very, you know, you could call it guru-ish, uh, you know, a life coachy thing, whatever you want to do. It's freaking true, man. And you have to embody that. And be willing to absolutely go to war with yourself. And the hardest part of it is in your mind, uh, and converting that into decisive action every day in everything you do, uh, to that end. Being the— and it's tiring, and it never ends, and it never will end until you die, and it never should end. And the quicker you become not just okay with that, not just accepting that, but knowing that this is the way. I pick up my battle axe, put it in my holder, my sheath back there, and my sword and my shield, and I go to war every day. And I go as hard as I can every day. And I've got these different areas of my life that I attack a little bit more here and a little bit more there. And sometimes I need to rest and that is the fight. I need 10 hours of sleep now. And I go do that. That I develop discipline and a routine way of doing things and structure in my life. And, you know, I get after that happiness journey by, you know, getting back into my hobbies. If I'm afraid of it, I want to go do it. I, I don't want to be afraid of it anymore, you know. I, I developed that Renaissance man persona where I can walk into a room and have conceptual knowledge of about anything. And if I don't, uh, you know, I'm gonna sit back and listen, and then I'm gonna— you know, you have all the knowledge of a major city, uh, you know, just a few decades ago in the palm of your hand right now. Oh, the world knowledge in the palm of your hand. You can freaking Google it, YouTube it, and then go down the rabbit hole and learn some things and continuously develop yourself. That is what it is about. Uh, it all starts with being physically fit, period. That is the foundation of the house that is you. Uh, it will— when you are physically fit, literally every area of your life will improve dramatically over time. And people can shake their head, they can say whatever. Look, man, I'm, I'm not putting up crazy numbers on anything right now, but it's about being functional. It's about showing the right example to your children and living a good life and putting your fitness, it You know, the one thing you— probably the most important thing you do every day is probably that, because it builds the foundation of everything else. If you build a house on no foundation, the house is going to collapse eventually.

There's a reason I made it step 1 of Be Your Liver in The Dead Bedroom Fix. And a lot of people, you're right, just threw the book down when they read that, going, oh shit, here we go. You go to the gym and get muscles. Yeah, sorry, dude. Everybody, man, it's, you know, you know, if the idea of being some dumb meathead doesn't appeal to you, that's fine, but at least take care of your damn self.

And you don't have to be a dumb meathead. I know I consider myself a very foul-mouthed intellectual. Uh, I'm, I'm not a meathead at all, but, you know, I go to the gym at a minimum 5 days a week. I hike, I do Krav Maga, you know, multiple times a week. And I'm very fit. I have a shitload of injuries, a shitload from the Army, you know. I'm about to be 100% VA disabled, and I, I have to— but I have to stay active, and I have to work around those injuries, man, that will progressively get, uh, worse over time.

What were your injuries? That was, uh, both knees replaced, or both knees, both shoulders, both, uh, hands.

I've got rods in both my feet. I've got all kinds of other issues, about, I think, 30 different documented. My medical records were over 1,800 pages long.

Yeah, but hey, but look at you, you're laughing at it and going, eh, it is what it is, keep moving.

I don't give a fuck, man. What am I gonna do, go cry into my dick-shaped pillow? You know, what I tell guys all that, all the time. And you know, it's funny, but And I put it that way not to be offensive, but to— for it to be remembered. Like, it's another thing in my coaching, I, I throw out a lot of one-liners, but people will tie the knowledge. I learned this in the Army. They'll tie the knowledge to the one-liner, and then they remember the one-liner and they have the knowledge right there. It's like a dropdown menu. It's pretty crazy.

Marketing 101. Just do it. Everybody remembers the tag.

They tag it. So the thing, thing number 2, um, develop and enforce personal standards and relationship boundaries. Um, you cannot walk around the earth as the spineless dude. Um, you know, one of the hardest things for the nice guy types to, uh, really come to grips with is You can be the kindest, most loving, gentle human in the world, and people will still rob, cheat, uh, you know, hurt you in all kinds of way— all kinds of ways. You have got to develop what I call a little bit of a mean streak and know how you apply that, uh, what that really means. That doesn't mean stupid. It doesn't mean reckless. It means targeted, controlled aggression, uh, to impose your will when, uh, all, uh, you know, options, uh, have failed prior to that, or we have elevated the, the level of circumstance is that literally that is the only option you have. You have got to be willing to pull a trigger on it, and Um, you know, not everybody's gonna like you. I'm, I'm sure I've got a few people out there that don't like me. Not many, but, uh, they're out there, you know, I think I'm a total piece of shit. You know what, the feeling's probably mutual. Fuck you too, buddy. You know, um, and, and I don't care. You know, you have to get to that point and just stop giving a fuck about things that don't matter. You know, simply don't matter. But developing those personal standards of how you're going to be treated, how you're going to be talked to, uh, and embodying that, you know, uh, how in your treatment of others, you know, first and foremost, you treat them the right way. If they don't treat you the right way, you let them know, and you make it a memorable moment for them of how things are going to go and how they're not going to go. And, uh, it's funny, when you push back a little bit, you put a lot of people on their heels because the truth is they're not good at confrontation. But when you accept that confrontation is a part of life and you become very comfortable in that arena, uh, not that you're an obnoxious confrontational person, but when called for, you know that There are little, there's little micro confrontations that, uh, men especially, very anxious, very, uh, nice guy types, build up in their mind. I ordered a hamburger with no pickles that comes with pickles. Well, dude, uh, decision one: is it a big deal for you or not? It's a big fucking deal. Send it back. And you go, you call the waitress over. Hey, ma'am, uh, you know, I noticed there are pickles on here. I really can't have those. Can, can you, uh, uh, take that back and, you know, have a new burger made or whatever? Or your steak was well done, you ordered it, uh, medium rare like a real American, you know, should, um, you know. And you, you got to have the balls to do that. It— that right there, uh, the nice guy version, they build it up in their head to be this cataclysmic you know, the waitress is going to lose her mind, the manager is going to throw you out of the restaurant, and the person is going to spit in your food. And in reality, how it goes when you connect eyes and you say, hey, ma'am, can I talk to you real quick? And you call her over and you say, hey, I ordered this, there's a mistake made. Can you fix that for me? Hey, appreciate you. It happens, man. We're all human. No big deal. And then the manager comes over, hey, oh my God, are you okay, blah blah blah blah. Oh, and that's how it actually goes down more often than not. And you're like, dude, no, I don't, I don't need a free meal here. Just shit happens. You guys are freaking slammed, man, it's not a big deal. And when you do that in front of a woman, having that cool, calm, collected approach, oh my God, she's thinking, man, look at all the other ways that could have played out in life. And I'm going to make a deduction here that he'll handle those things in a similar fashion. Wow, that's a really attractive thing to do. You know, guys should think about that. You know, relationship boundaries. You let people walk all over you, you know, you keep feeding the bears and then you wonder why the bears get hungry and hungry and more and more hungry and keep coming and, you know, taking advantage of you. You got to put your foot down, man. And if you're not willing to put all options on the table to include divorcing that woman, uh, you're a fool, uh, flat out. You've got to draw your line in the sand. And, and I would tell women that too. You shouldn't let men be walking all over— that, that's a universal concept, you know. You put, uh, relate, uh, boundaries on yourself first and foremost, communicate them, and then you put them on the relationship. And they're known, they're shared expectations. So there's no surprises when, when it happens, you know.

Amen. Amen. That's just so huge right now with, with so many men. It's been shamed out of us to have any kind of boundaries, and you don't want to be an asshole, you don't want to be too this, don't want to be too that. And when in fact— and it's such a mind F for so many guys that when they finally flex their asshole muscle a little bit, air quotes, asshole muscle a little bit, um, they realize how how much smoother things go. And the ultimate slap in the face is how much better their romantic life goes. And then what do some of those guys do? All women only like jerks. All women only like assholes. As soon as I put up, you know, a quote of boundary, now they like me. Well, F them. Welcome to real life, dude.

Well, and the other, you know, thought that comes to mind— what are you really telling women when you don't have standards of treatment and boundaries like that. Uh, what do you stand for, buddy? Do you stand for anything? You care about it for me, your kids, you know? Um, and you're, you're sending a, a very clear message, uh, that you, uh, you know, aren't gonna make your fight where you need to make it. Uh, and that, that is not a good thing. Uh, you know, she will rapidly lose respect for you as, as She should, because people are walking all over you. And it doesn't mean, uh, guys, again, catastrophize that like you're this, you know, rootin' tootin' meathead asshole, you know, being obnoxious and throwing people around a restaurant over pickles on a burger. No, man, you know, you, you come in there, you communicate like an adult, not a freaking mutant. And it's not hard. It really is not hard. You know, just tug on them a bit and, you know, make the conversation happen. Be kind about it and make it like, hey man, little mistake, no big deal, you know? And they make it right and then life goes on, you know? You shake it off.

A mental exercise in those type of situations is, what's the worst thing that could happen?

Yeah.

And the guy says, well, they could get mad at me and say, sir, you asked for pickles, you didn't "you never told us no pickles." And then you, "Okay, and then what?" And then I'd have to say, "Well, sorry, but I did say pickles." Okay, so in other words, the worst case scenario—

You're not even going to get in that debate with them.

No, but the worst case scenario is an uncomfortable confrontation. You'll survive it. You'll live, I promise. Nobody will die. You'll be okay.

Exactly. You know, the final thing I want to talk about is I'm a very big believer that In middle age, a lot of times this is true, you have a choice, uh, to either have a midlife awakening or a midlife crisis. And I, I think you'd, you'd agree that what brings a lot of men, uh, the vast majority of men and women to, uh, groups like ours, uh, you know, searching for answers, going to therapy and all that, is something bad has happened. They're in crisis mode. What if we were to be more situationally aware and more behind the wheel of the vehicle that we're actually driving? Instead of driving looking through the rearview mirror or the side mirrors, you want to check them, but you really want to maintain, you know, eyesight on where you're going and as far out as you can actually drive. That's how you drive a vehicle. We all know that, you know, and, um We have the opportunity, and if I were to sit young men down and say something, you know, there's going to come this point in your 30s, 40s, you know, maybe 50s, whatever, where you have a choice to make a change, a big change, if you feel like something's off, like you're not getting what you want out of this life, uh you have an opportunity to make a choice right then and there and have a midlife awakening. I'd much rather men actualize that opportunity before they are picking up the pieces, before they are rebuilding, you know, after a divorce. And sometimes, like in, in my situation, man, if you would have, if you would have told me I, I would have went through this 5 years ago, I, I wouldn't have believed you. I, I mean, it's so crazy and chaotic. Sometimes you can do, you know, a lot of things right and still get fucked up in it. Um, it, it happens. What are you gonna do, you know? You're gonna rebuild or you're gonna fold right now, you know? I look at it like this, you know, I'm all my children have, and, uh, no one's coming to save Coach Jay but me. I, I've gotta, I've gotta put on that cape and mask every day and be willing to do what's required. So make a choice. What do you want, uh, midlife crisis or midlife awakening? And then follow that up. If you choose the midlife awakening route, go all in, hopelessly all in, um, you know, pour everything into that bucket and you're gonna see your life improve. You know, it doesn't matter whether you're going through a divorce, whether you're going— whatever your situation is, things will get better. A lot of my coaching is a message of hope, and it's not going to be required to be easy.

It's not going to be easy, and there will be people that will get in your way. There will be people that say you're dumb for fill in the blank, whatever it may be.

That's where it comes— that second point I made, uh, you know, and develop enforced personal boundaries where you, you know, push those people to the periphery of your life or completely out, you know, push them out of the ring.

And unfortunately, those people may be mom, dad, wife, brother, best friend of 30 years. So, you finally realize this guy's been kind of holding me back for many years. All we do is get together and drink 20 beers every weekend, and I've moved on from that, and I don't— there's no place in my life for him anymore. And he's holding me back from self-improvement. He's trying to shame me out of being a better dude. And sometimes that person is wife. Sometimes it's sad.

But, you know, an epiphany we had, Ralph, in our first BroFest in Nashville, and you probably remember, I think I'm not going to say his name out here, but one of the gentlemen that was there, really cool guy I'm friends with. Um, and fraternity member, lifelong member, um, goes, man, what are the odds? Where— show me in this city right now where there are 30 men that are on a warpath, an absolute warpath, to becoming better, the best version of them, anywhere in this city. And we're in downtown Nashville, you know, getting ready to start our Saturday evening, and, you know, and it's complete debauchery down there, you know, uh, at any given night really. But, uh, 30 men that are all on the warpath to being the best version of themselves, and here we are all standing tall and looking good and everything, and women are just like looking like, what the hell are these, you know, physically fit, you know, uh, well-dressed, uh, hold themselves properly, and just a big group of us. And I remember even, uh, that night there, there are these, uh, older women, they were like, woo, you know, wooing over this particular guy. It was, it was really funny and cute, but, uh, you know, they were just a little more vocal about it, you know. The younger ones were definitely breaking their necks too, so it was, uh, It was, uh, cool, but a great epiphany of— we have a rare thing in the DSO fraternity, and if it were easy, we would have millions and millions of members all across the world right now. It's not easy. Uh, you're going to have to get into the grittiest areas of your life and battle for that possession of what you really want. You know, and I, I think we all agree on this. I, I want, I want quality marriages that have maybe, you know, uh, went a little bit, you know, veered left or right. I want them to come back online and stay together. I, I want good families to stay together and, you know, salvage the relationship and make it actually worth staying in, not just stay together for the kids. I want to make that distinction, very big difference. There. Or if it needs to end, do the adult thing and end it. And both of you guys, you know, work on yourselves, heal up, and be the best damn co-parents you can for those, uh, kids.

And, um, we have, uh, we've lost members over the notion of us looking at their situation and hearing all their stories and saying, dude, this ain't gonna work. You know it's not going to work. You never should have got together with this woman. This is a dumpster fire of awfulness. She's done these horrible, you know, 15 things. What's going on with you, man? And they don't want to hear that. It's, no, I'm, you know, my religion, my vows, my whatever makes me say stay. So here's what I need from you guys. Tell me how to stay. It's like, that's not how this works, dude.

Your, your situation is, you know, I had a coaching session last night, and, and I, I hate telling guys that brutal honest truth, like Dude, you have a very, very low, uh, what you're telling me your goal is, is not aligned with reality, and here is why. Um, you know, you guys were never sexually compatible, period. Um, you know, and, uh, you're literally trying to build a house on with no foundation right now. You have no background, the chance You can't go from, you know, zero to porn star sex. And, you know, it's not how it freaking works, man. It just is not gonna happen. And your goals are not nested in reality. Now, while I'm telling you that, uh, I'm not saying divorce her now. I will say that, and, uh, when it's called for, when it is right, and I would tell them, you know, what I would be doing myself. Uh, men have to get over the divorce is the easy way out. No, divorce is the only way out sometimes, the only logical decision, the only self-respecting decision you have if you're in a toxic, abusive, whatever type of relationship. And I think men are finding more and more They're shocked that, you know, women are capable of bad behavior, uh, as much as men. You know, you look in the, uh, all these stats and articles that are coming out, the studies of infidelity, women are doing it, uh, just as much as men. And you could probably argue it's been going on, uh, for much longer than we've realized. Um, you know, and men need to wake up. That's not to bash women. It's just true. You know, there are bad women out there. There are bad men out there. There are good men out there. There are great women out there, you know. And you have to, again, I said at the beginning of our chat, you have to live in the reality you're in, not the one you wish you're in. That's a hard thing for a lot of people to do. You know, I want all the great and wonderful things to happen to me, but I'm willing to do fuck all about it. You know, uh, you, you have to work, man. You have to earn it. You have to, you know, and if that is not your mindset, that's okay. But don't expect, uh, anything to come to fruition, uh, if you're not willing to, uh, run that race, you know?

Exactly right. Exactly right. Gotta put in the work. And sometimes that work's not what you want to hear, but you still gotta put in that work. Sometimes it's gonna get you to a place where you're like, And that's— that wasn't the intended goal here. The goal was to turn this relationship around. You know, it sounds like we're anti-marriage here. Like he said, there are plenty of instances where we listen to a guy's story and the end result is, you need to yank your head out of your ass, dude. You got a good woman here. You've done all these 5 terrible things to her. No wonder she's checked out of the relationship. Have you ever told your wife thank you for everything that she's done? You know, those kind of conversations.

Oh yeah.

But we just tend to attract to our group a certain subset of men. Very anxious, very clingy, hang on no matter what. And the idea of being alone scares them half to death. And, um, so we're— we've seen all sides, but we tend to see the one side where the guys just hang on no matter what. And they're— some of them are flat out abused in these relationships, and it's not good.

Oh yeah, a lot of them. And I agree, you, you know, anybody, uh, you know, listening to this right now, you've got to look at our population And what drives a lot of the content is, uh, the population of men that we have, uh, that is a growing and growing, um, population unfortunately of guys with low boundaries and nice GI issues and things like that. And, um, it's a predominant demographic, uh, that we have. And they— a lot of them, you know, are, are in, you know, these marriages with wives that aren't going to do anything. They're going to be like, eh, you know, okay, well, if, if that's your response, dude, do you really want to be in a relationship like that? You know, is that true equity in, in a relationship? No. And not everything is 50/50, but overall it should be equitable. You know, you're a little bit more here, she's a little bit less, she's a little bit more there. But it all, you know, uh, both parties feel like it's equitable. It's a very mutually held feeling, you know, is the measure of effectiveness is what I would call it, you know. Um, and a lot of these relationships are not equitable. Uh, I see it all the time where the guy is, you know, the exact opposite of what all these women are bitching about online about the do-nothing guy at home leaves his underwear on the floor, you know, the, the dumb shit that you hear women rightfully so talk about. Uh, these guys aren't messing that up, and they're trying to go on dates, and you've got the wife, uh, laying on the couch drinking mom juice and, you know, death scrolling her phone with Netflix, uh, kicked on too, and the kids are running amok, and the guy's doing it all. After working an 8+ hour shift, you know, and she's not doing her freaking job. So what do you got to say about that? Now, I say all that not to put us in the heat of the gender war, uh, that, that is prevalent online. We, we don't, we don't deal on those terms. Um, you know, it all goes back to there are good people and there are bad people, and you have to recognize the itches. Uh, the gender war— you don't build men up in the self-improvement world by tearing down women. No, I, I love and adore all the women in my life. I've been— I'm surrounded by them in the form of grandmother, mother, sisters, girlfriend, and all, you know, all the different, uh, people. I've been very fortunate in having those women in my life. Nothing, nothing against anybody, but women are not above criticism either. And we don't pull any punches with that one for sure. Our message though really is, dude, you can either be the guy that sits there and bitches about, oh, modern women are trash or Western women are trash or the things we hear, you know, all the time. Or you can be the guy that makes yourself, uh, holistically valuable, a catch, and actually do something about it, attract the right, uh, woman into your life, or women, whatever your persuasion is, you know. And what— which would you rather choose? Are you going to get better results from, uh, you know, being a keyboard warrior, or are you going to be— get, uh, get better results from Action, you know, taking action.

Amen, you got it. And so for those of you who are interested in joining this group that we're talking about, dsofraternity.com— I'll put links in the description in this video wherever it's posted. But we have the fraternity. If you want to work one-on-one with Jason here, you can do so. I'll put the link to his coaching one-on-one. Keep in mind though, the pricing if you are a member of our group is heck of a lot less for coaching with Jason and myself and the others on the team, uh, versus the regular old pricing to the general public. So join our group, get the discounting on the coaching as well as the discussion groups, which are private— no one can see what you're saying— as well as the Zoom meetings that no one else can get in on and listen to all the recordings of the 700+ hours, I believe we're up to now, of meeting recordings. To get a little ridiculous at this point. And we have a frat podcast, articles, and we like talked about we meet in person, all kinds of cool stuff. Uh, for a relatively small monthly fee, you get all that stuff, and you get to support our group and help grow our message to guys all over the world. And Jason, buddy, once again, thank you so much for everything you do. Yeah, we love you to death, appreciate you, and hopefully we can spread the word and help out some more dudes out there.

Yeah, I mean, one final thing, Ralph Brewer, appreciate you having me on. I want to work with men that are so sick and tired of their shitty situation and are willing to do whatever it takes. I, I want to offer you both a lifeline and enable you to get a death grip on what you really want. And if you're that man on fire, I, I wanna, I wanna work with you. I want to work with you. I'll listen to you, you know, I'll give you a shoulder to cry on, but I am action-based. If you're that guy, I want to work with you. I need to. And I want to cheer you along the whole way. I want to, you know, give you a little asthma check and move you left and right and all that and help you. And all the coaches, you know, if I'm not your persuasion, man, hey, I'm a little too— I hear it all the time. I don't want you to bite my head off or Dude, I'm on your freaking team, bud. I'm on your freaking team. I want you to win probably more than you want to win, trust me. And I want your, your family and your, your kids and your spouse to win as well. I want you to have an awesome freaking life. All the coaches, uh, it's what we want, man. And, uh, we, we've got a number of different, uh, voices. You know, we didn't really talk about it, Ralph, but I'm the coaching director and I, I kind of manage all the other coaches and make sure that we have a unified front in our, um, message but a diversified approach. So if I'm not your guy, that's okay, man. Again, I'm not your cup of tea, that don't make me not a cup of tea. But there are other coaches that will come at it from different angles that may be better for you, and that's fine, man. Uh, I just want you to live the best damn life you can. And that is ultimately the goal we're trying to get at, you know, self-improvement, action-based, and getting you on that lifelong journey to improvement and happiness.

Amen. Amen. So check it out, DSO Fraternity and Coach Jay. All right, brother. So good to see you again. Thank you so much.

All right, buddy. Love you.

Take care. I'll see you.