Interview with Noor - Our Newest DSO Coach

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. Everybody, DSO here from dadstartingover.com, and with me today is Noor. Hey, Noor is spelled N-O-O-R, and Noor, if some of you are wondering who the hell is Noor, well, Noor is our latest DSO coach. He's now the latest member of the DSO team, the Dad Starting Over team. And, uh, Noor has been in the DSO world for how long now in our fraternity and everything else? A couple years now, I think.

2 years, yeah, maybe a little bit over. Yeah.

And so it begs the question, what is it that brought you to the DSO world? How'd you find me and all my awesomeness?

Nice. Yeah, I'm glad I found you. I'm glad to be a part of this, uh, uh, I mean, it's growing, so it's evolving as it is. So let's call it fraternity group, all these things. Um, how do I find it? It's, uh, I was tired of trying the same things over and over again. Uh, also instinctively, I think people tend to, when they need help, they go to the people around them. So, um, I couldn't find answers, you know. I had questions and questions and more questions than answers. So I think Uh, it was, I mean, just like a web search and found your book. The picture, I think everybody says the picture just kind of speaks to them. It's like, wow, yeah, I can relate to this. And I'm like, yeah, you know, book, read it. Um, and, and history from there. But I think the main thing, the main thing was looking outside my bubble for help and answers. Uh, and that's where I'd say really got me involved in and That begs the question, you were searching for answers to what exactly?

What was the big life question here that was so perplexing or so pressing that you were on Google looking for answers to it?

How much time do I have to, to kind of talk about this? A few minutes?

What do you want?

If you want to explain—

go ahead, man, shoot. Yeah, fire away.

Okay. Um, yeah, I, um, now that I'm getting older and kind of digging deep within myself, I'm discovering that I have, uh, um, what's the word, like, I, I jump into things, you know, sometimes without thinking. And it's fun, it's the adrenaline junkie that's part of me that just jumps into things. But my history, looking back, is I'm constantly jumping in and out of situations. So I think even at 20, um, I was codependent and I wanted to— I wanted a partner. So do this stupid thing at 20 and get married, you know, um, or not— I wouldn't say this stupid thing, not, you know, there's people that kind of are in their right mindset, but me, I was not in the right mindset, and I think I needed— I thought I needed someone to share life with and things like that. Got divorced at 22. It's toxic. It was problematic. Um, lived my life. Uh, as a single guy for about 2 years, and then eventually found my wife now that I'm living with. And amazing, beautiful, uh, situation, I'd say, but not the right mindset, um, for me. And then now, admittedly, now I know these things, I was at fault for a lot of situations leading forward. So we were in a situation where it was a lot of problems. And I was like, man, you know what, I can't go through this again. I can't go through the divorce again. I can't. And, and I knew there was something that I can do. And that's why I think the book, the book spoke to me, was I loved how you say it's a lot of the guy's fault, leading. There's a lot of, uh, misunderstanding on the guys and stuff like that. So I was going to— the next day I was going to go to a lawyer and I was going to be like, you know what, this isn't working out, and all these things. But then something stopped me. Something said, hey, you haven't tried everything, you haven't done your all. And I think that's what made me search as much as I can. And I'm the type of person, I like searching inwardly before I blame everybody for my fault. And that's another part of the book. It's, it's like, hey, it's you, you, you, 1, 2, 3. If you jump out of this relationship, go into another relationship, you're going to repeat the same problem. And that, you know, that's like, hey, I'm gonna work on myself now and then see where all the chips fall. I see where I end up. And that's how it was. That was the journey. I looked inwardly, fixed, uh, whatever I needed to pursue, and then I looked around and, and lo and behold, I, I had my own little circle, you know, of friends and family that were sticking around. And a lot of people abandoned, but, but I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be where I am.

Very good. And for those that don't know, the book that you're mentioning is The Dead Bedroom Fix. That's— I've written several books. That one by far is my bestseller, and it's all about when the bedroom activity between man and wife goes down, and which is like the number one complaint for men in marriage, like, what can you do? And so I would assume then that there was some component of your marriage that lend itself to saying the bedroom wasn't the greatest in the world. You sound like you had all kinds of problems. Maybe all kinds is an exaggeration. You had problems, plural, in this now new second marriage. What kind of problems did you have? Was it all centered around the bedroom activity or was that just one of several symptoms going on?

I think one of several symptoms. It wasn't fully dead. Like now that I speak to a lot of men and find out like, whoa, there's, there's a lot of, a lot of problems out there. So I, I do count my blessings on that aspect and it was dying. That's how I'd like to explain it. It was, and it's not just, just every— everything in the relationship, the communication, the connection, all these things, they were just kind of naturally going their own direction. Because if you really think about it, we're human beings, we need— we need that connection, communication. So when you do have a toxic situation, people tend to— yeah, people tend to either get, you know, closer to their family, friends, all these things. So, um, I'd say it was going direction where I saw myself going back into this dark hole that I, I was familiar with, and it was the communication was being lost and all these things were happening. Um, and I just either— I just wanted to— yeah, I just want to feel whole again. And I think, I think I needed to hear it from a guy, like, especially— I mean, hearing your voice on the Audible was amazing. A guy talking guy talk. Like, it's just— it's— it was familiar. It was— it was easy to understand. Um, yeah, like, I'd say, going back to the direction the relationship was going, it wasn't something I was willing to live with the rest of my life, let's put it that way. Um, something had to change, and the easiest thing I think a man can do is work on himself. Rather than when you have relationships, two people are involved, and then you have children involved, all these things. Well, the easiest thing to do is step— take a step back and work on yourself. And it doesn't have to be a selfish feeling. You can take a few hours out the day, a few days out the week, things like that, and slowly regroup. And, uh, that's what I did in that situation. I had to find answers, find a formula, and start working on what I want to do and how I want my life and how I'm willing to accept and live my life for the rest of my life.

Yeah, about a life. And was your wife receptive to, let's call it, Norr 2.0?

She was. I mean, what's really cool and I love about my wife is, is, uh, she puts a challenge. She, she's, um, there was a lot of shit tests, and I love that, uh, that the, the, this group really brings that to the surface, I think. Because I would say without me understanding what a shit test is, or what's really happening, or what's the natural, um, safety mechanism of a woman, you know, for lack of better words, on my end, uh, I started to respond rather than react. And, and, um, not do the nice guy thing of reassure and constantly be there and pick the pieces up and things like that. No, it's like, hey, I'm, I'm taking care of myself, I'm doing what I need to do, and, uh, this is better for me and then eventually better for everybody. And, and who is willing— whoever is willing to accept this, or this, this new me, Nor 2.0, uh, will eventually come to terms that this is fucking amazing. And I think eventually she started realizing, wow, this guy is like, I wanna be around this person. I really wanna, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's been pretty good.

So when you say she was shit testing you, it, it, it's somewhat of a controversial idea or philosophy that women in particular, really it's humans overall, but women in particular do things to see, well, let me see what this guy's made of. So your flavor of shit test from your wife was basically her saying, I see you going through some stuff. Tell me if I'm right or wrong. I want to see if this is in fact for real. Um, this— what you're doing here is good, but I don't quite believe that this is gonna— this is gonna stick around. Or I don't quite believe that there's— there's good, um, intentions behind what it is you're doing. Maybe there's something nefarious going on here. Maybe there's another girl in the picture. That's why you seem to be really working on yourself. What flavor of shit test was she giving you exactly?

It was a part of those things. It wasn't— I wouldn't say sabotage, because I hear, I hear a lot of relationships have that. It's not initially sabotage, but it is testing, yes. And you can tell it's a natural thing. It's, uh, it's a natural instinct, especially with my situation where there's kids involved. It's like, hey, yeah, like you say, is this worth pursuing, or is this really— is this guy for real? That's what it is. And with my situation, I constantly jumped from things to things, hobbies. And, uh, you know, I'd really love this for, for a month, 6 months, and then I switched to something else. And she's like, holy shit, like, what's going on?

Yeah.

When it stuck around for a few years, she's like, okay, this is the real thing. Um, but again, I did not do it just for— I obviously want a good relationship, I want a healthy relationship,. But for me to— for it to be real, I had to do it for myself. And I had to really look in the mirror and say, this is who I want to be for me. And people around me, you know, test or no test, uh, this is what you get. Um, because you can, you can fake something for so long and it wasn't, it wasn't anything faked. It was just natural and, uh, it felt comfortable and, and I was comfortable. So yeah, people really The right people, I think, accepted that new nor, or what I was really bringing to the table. It felt great.

Yeah. Now, the way you describe going from thing to thing, so you're the type that when you're, when something interests you, you jump into it 1000% and you learn every aspect there is of it and you just throw yourself into it. And then you're like, I'm kind of bored with this now. I've learned everything there is to know about it. Oh look, the next thing, you know, that's really common if, you you've been reading our message boards and stuff for the DSO fraternity. Wow. Like, that's a very guy thing. Or is it necessarily? And this is something, by the way, that I personally relate to. That's my whole life has been a series of things I've been super duper into. In my defense, I don't last months. I usually last years doing them. And then I kind of learned everything there is to know. Oh, look, here's the next thing. And when there's lulls in between, it's not a very good lull. I feel really down. I need something to really keep me going. Um, that's from what I understand symptomatic of people with ADHD. Not necessarily saying that's what we both have, but I don't know if that's something you've looked into or if that's something that rings any bells for you at all.

Um, I, I'm scared to look into it, but no, I'm joking. Uh, yes and no. Um, I've learned over the years to have a strong circle around me. Me. So, uh, rather than just trust my instincts, um, I have my brother, I'm at two brothers, I have, uh, my family, my friends, uh, I have more of a reassurance, especially the people I trust. Um, and I think now before I make major decisions, I really run things by them and bounce ideas and they're like, yeah, yeah, it's fucking cool, do that. Or, or whoa, like, what are you, what are you talking about? Like, that's insane. Um, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but so far it's been working out great, Ralph. Like, it's been happening.

Yeah. Good, good. Yeah. Because there's so many, there's so many guys that don't have that, you know, person to go to to say, dude, what do you think? And a lot of guys just go for it. And a lot of guys that I talk to have garages full of shit.

Mm-hmm.

You know, of mementos of stuff they've been into. And the wife goes out and looks at it and goes like, This is yet another thing you're going to add to the pile of stuff that you forgot. Look, there's a drum set, there's a keyboard, there's part— half of a car that you've been building that you say you're going to finish, you never finish. And that really, it diminishes the respect that a woman has for the man, that he's just this thing, this guy that just jumps from thing to thing and he's never really serious or committed to really anything long term. So I can see for sure why that'd be fodder for testing your man, like, oh Really? You're all into self-improvement now and you're all into, you know, for some minutes getting into physical shape. Gonna go to the therapist and work on some stuff. Uh-huh. Eye roll. Sure. Yeah, whatever. So you gotta string together months and years where finally they go, all right, I'm on board. And a lot of guys that we talk to, their flavor of this is the physical, the, the getting in physical shape. And they'll get really pissed that the wife is like, I ordered us pizza. And the guy's like, I told you. I'm trying to lose weight here. Why would you order pizza? Yeah. Why are you trying to sabotage? And she's like, oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah, here's Mr. Chicken and Rice again, whatever. And then he's like, man, this kept up for like 9 freaking months. And then by month 10, she's finally like, can I go to the gym with you? And hey, I threw out all the snacks. And he's like, well, all right, about damn time. But man, it's 10 months of just pure test, test, test. Is this for real? Is it not? So you saw some version of that. Now going to the, here's, here's the good segue to the next part of the conversation. The physical stuff, which we hear from a lot of guys is really pushed aside when they become dad and husband and everything else. That never really was your problem, was it? You've been Mr. Physical since the beginning. MMA, like, like give us some background of Noor 1.0. What, what he, what was he like?

Fighting. Now, when, when I was fighting, I was skinny, 135, always lean. Um, but then eventually I wanted to gain weight, so I got up to 190 pounds. It was pretty, pretty big guy with a lot of mass. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, this is too big, that's a lot of eating. So now I'm 170. But yeah, I've always been physically fit. Um, my lifestyle though, my habits weren't always in tune, uh, until I hired like, um a nutritionist and a personal trainer and really count calories, uh, just to get the outcome I want. Because eventually I got tired of the emotional roller coaster followed by the physical roller coaster, you know. Like, uh, you know, now even though I compartmentalize my life where I have my work, I have my family, I have my personal goals, which is, you know, flying, fighting, training, eating good, I try not to get a lot of other things involved with each other. So now that I have my physical, you know, goals dialed in, let's say other things in my life are going chaotic, I'm, I still maintain that and that gives me a kind of a good balance and a good track to kind of keep going. But yeah, always been kind of in shape, I'd say.

There's one thing that I think you differ in a lot of ways for some of the other men and this is where they can learn from you in the, coaching is, it seems like you've always been very much tapped into your masculine side, masculine for lack of a better word. You got the fitness thing and you recognize, I would like to gain weight, I'd like to lose. Okay, great. Well, a lot of men never had that up until my book or something else kind of woke 'em up. And the other side is you're kind of a thrill seeker. Now you shouldn't say kind of, you're a thrill seeker. Can you tell us about some of the stuff you've done over the years that fall into the category of Mr. Thrill Seeker?

I know we can't— we— I had friends over the other day, we tried to count how many licenses I have, and it was— I— we stopped at 6. Like, it was crazy, man. But, uh, yeah, pilot's license, um, I mean, scuba certified, like, just motorcycle license, everything. But, um, it's the chase of adrenaline. That's what it was. And I am full on— I still am. I try to do in a healthy way. I mean, I have children and all, but it's full adrenaline fix. Um, and that's, that's really what it comes down to. It's really trying to get that natural endorphin. Um, I was never a drug guy, like, never— I wouldn't say never, but I, I was— I, I didn't want to go— I seen the effects of artificial excitement, I'd say, or endorphins or anything like that. So I never went that route. I seen, I, I like traveling and partying and seeing people really, really go to the extreme, but artificial and you know what I'm saying? I always like natural, man. Always like natural. If, if whatever it, it may be, I, I like the natural emotion or chemical that a, a human can kind of create.

Your wife sees Mr. Bad Boy Thrill Seeker. One thought is, you know, there's always that, there's always that fight in everybody's mind between, we call it lover provider, which is this, the sexy erotic side versus the safe domestic side. There's always that battle. And as women get older and have kids and everything else, they just keep stressing the, we need to be safe, we need to be safe, we need to be safe. I need to make sure you're around and make sure these kids are taken care of. We have a job now and it's these kiddos. How do you remedy the remedy the two? How do the two marry with each other, which is Mr. Thrillseeker and domestic daddy, basically. And, um, yeah. And how do you be a model for the kiddos, saying, you know, how to balance the two worlds and, uh, put your wife's stress at ease, if you will, and all of this? I'm just thinking from her perspective, this has got to be tough. And from your perspective, how do you maintain your energy? Let's say, God forbid— I shouldn't say God forbid because you did endure here recently a pretty major injury. Yeah. Yeah, somewhat. Yeah, it's somewhat affiliated with your thrill seeking. If you weren't Mr. Thrill Seeker, that wouldn't have happened. You wanna tell the listeners and viewers here what exactly happened to you recently?

Yeah, fly these paramotor things. It's literally like a 2-stroke engine on your back, big propeller, and you, you, you, yeah, you just run, parachute goes overhead and you fly. You can go up to 12,000 feet, you can get up to 300 miles.

Wow.

You can, I wanna say 300, maybe 3 hours of flying. You going like 30 miles per hour. So yeah, like, you can get some good distance depending on the— but, um, uh, yeah, it was, it was, uh, definitely my error. I, uh, you shouldn't ground start these things. They're literally a small airplane. You should put them on your back and start them. So yeah, I just, uh, ground started. I pulled it, started on the ground. Uh, I think what I think is my throttle went full, but thing went full throttle, my hand got caught in it, man, and, and really, really messed up my hand. But Thank God I'm back.

Yeah.

Full, I mean, I'd say full function.

You could have won. You could have lost that hand easily. Yeah.

Yeah. It would've, it would've, you know, yeah. If it was hitting the wrong positions, I could have lost the hand. Yeah.

Could have had, okay. So, so my question then is, God forbid something like that happens again. And what if you're incapacitated completely for a matter of months? Is, is Noor 3.0, like become Mr. Depressed for a few months because he can't go out and thrill seek? What does life look like for you? If you don't, you know, jump off of things and all this other stuff.

Good, that's really good and interesting. Okay, so, so go back to the wife mindset of what she expects and— or what she— what's it called— what her reaction is. And then, and then going back to my, you know, what's it called, um, her thing is like, I don't want to know what he's doing as long as he comes back alive. All right, like when they called her and like, hey, he's in the hospital, is he alive, is he okay, is he alive? Yeah, he's— she's like, okay, then tell me. So, um, I think she's, uh, she's getting a little better with, with my lifestyle, but also I'm calming down a bit. No, it doesn't affect me. I don't need the adrenaline. Um, I'd say this was my— we counted it in the hospital, it was my 10th surgery. I've had 10 surgeries in my lifetime. Yeah. And, uh, I've, I've bounced back pretty fast.

All related to the thrill-seeking stuff?

They were all injuries as a result of Some, some like training and some no, not everything. I'd say like, you know, hernia could be from training. Yeah. You know, like hair replacement, you know, that's definitely not thrill-seeking, but most boring surgery. But no, I, I have the tools. So when I'm in that like dark well, I have the tools to climb out. And the first thing I start do is what can I move? And how can I move it? Uh, I mean, I'd say my hernia or my hand surgery, my hand was wrapped, so, you know, we— I, I went to the gym and I, and I hired a personal trainer and we did whatever we can do. He put some, you know, belt around me and hung some weights and we're doing squats. But, uh, no, I, I try to see what I have and then I work with that. Uh, and I had, I had a good support structure too, like I had my brothers around me, my family, everybody. So you, you can kind of bounce energy off people and they can be like, you know, obviously they're gonna tell you you're gonna come out great and all these things. But, um, yeah, I think, I think I've been there, done that. So I use the tools that I have. I don't let the adrenaline junkie side of me define who I am. So when I introduce myself, I don't go, hey, you know, I'm this, this, this, you know. I really, I, that's just on the inside. But you can feel that energy from me, you know. I, I see a lot of people, they're like, whoa, like, where is this energy coming from? That's where it's coming from. But, um, yeah, I don't let it define who I am.

Now here's a more personal question. This is something that goes along with the adrenaline junkies. As you probably know, in that world, I, I assume you got friends and stuff that kind of follow in the same umbrella of adrenaline junkie type dudes. Those type of dudes, correct me if I'm wrong, tend to not have much difficulty in the ladies department. They tend to be Mr. Playboy is a term I often use. So if they're single and they're in their early 20s, they're, they're, they're getting lucky on a regular basis. It just goes along with the territory. They tend to be outgoing guys. They tend to be comfortable guys, you know, talking to other people. They're, they're not afraid. Low anxiety, I think, is a common trait amongst thrill seeker types. You know, a high anxiety person's not gonna jump off a building or jump in with sharks or whatever else. So kind of go with the flow, dude. And that's attractive. Which in turn means, you know, in terms of like a, a dude hierarchy, who gets all the chicks, it's usually the top, but the guys at the top of the pyramid, they tend to get all the women. Well, so you are in a club of guys that tend to get the chicks. Therefore, correct me if I'm wrong.

Mm-hmm.

Being committed to one woman in a long-term monogamous relationship from now until the day you die, it's gotta be a little tough.

Yeah, it's, no, I wouldn't say tough. I lived that lifestyle. I know what that has, uh, what it, what it comes with. Um, I think at a very young age, and that's why I got married at a young age, I always wanted to build something with someone, just one person. I wanted to have those memories with someone. Um, that's why I had to get out of my first, uh, uh, relationship. Second relationship, I loved who I was sharing my life with, but but I did not love the atmosphere it was in. And, um, the player mindset, it's one of those things that you can't explain to someone unless they tried it or lived it. I wouldn't talk anybody out of it. And I have a lot of friends that are single, good-looking, in shape, and that's the lifestyle they want to live. I don't try to convince them to be in a monogamous relationship. Um, On my end, yeah, I have the— I like— I know what it feels like to be on a beautiful beach or see something absolutely amazing and just be there by yourself or share with someone that you're never gonna see again, uh, or, or a group of people, like, you know, you get what I'm saying. Uh, so I've always had it in my mindset where I want to share as much parts of life and as much emotions and feelings as I can with one person and just build from there and build a solid structure. I'm, I'm, I'm more of a kingdom rather than an explorer kind of guy.

Well, that's a very masculine mindset is to have a legacy.

Mm-hmm.

A legacy. I, I want some kids and I wanna something to show. I don't wanna just go to my grave and just say, well, he banged 300 women. Yeah. Who gives a shit, right? He's, everyone looks and says he's a family man. He built something. He built a business. He built a family. He's got a wife. They blah, blah, blah. One thing I've seen from your situation is not common in our DSO group, but there's enough there that I've talked to. I don't know how many dozens of guys in your shoes that I can say kind of formed a kind of a template for these guys, Mr. Former Mr. Player types. And the former Mr. Player types say, I've played that, it's done, whatever. It was fun. I got memories. I still think back on it and smile every now and then. But I've told myself I need some safety and security. I need to build a legacy. I need somebody to go through life with. Where I think a lot of these guys— you tell me if you can relate to this somewhat— where they, um, go wrong, so to speak, is they will swing the pendulum way too far to where I want to find a very safe, secure woman. And they sometimes find a really boring woman who, when they look at the woman's family, it's like Wow, they don't ever kiss, they don't ever hug, they're very impersonal people, they're very unloving people, but they've never divorced. It's a relatively strong family, there's no drama there, there's no red flags, she's passing all the tests. But as far as over-the-top loving, sexual, all that other stuff, not so much. But that's okay, I'm looking for a good woman, you know. And so they marry the good woman, and then The honeymoon phase, everything's like, this is, you know, this is what I'm used to as Mr. Player. Cool. But then marriage and kids happen and they're like, um, yeah, this, this ain't gonna work for me anymore. I remember one of the first guys I talked to was a definite Mr. Player type, really good looking dude from Europe. And, um, he was complaining about his dead, dead bedroom and so forth. I'm like, this has gotta be really tough for you. And then at the end of the conversation he says, I have a confession to make. I have slept around with 11 different women since being married to my wife. Basically, he very early on said, yeah, I can't take this anymore. And he just repeatedly fooled around, fooled around, fooled around. Maybe there's some semblance of that. Did you swing the pendulum too far, so to speak, in hindsight? And may not to belittle the wife in any way, shape, or form, cuz there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. And look for a safe mate versus a fun mate? And if so, were there some negative repercussions to that?

Um, no, I'd say, I'd say the, the— what I needed to learn and understand was how to bring that fun, playful mindset in a long monogamous relationship. Uh, and thankfully, what, it's been 2 and a half years now. I mean, I, I, I've read The Dead Bedroom Fix and in the fraternity involved in all these things. Um, here's, here's the thing with especially players, if I'm going to talk to a, a player guy, I don't even like to use the word players, just, just a playful or, or, um, any, whatever, but any, any guy any guy that's had that, that, that's had, um, don't rely on an atmosphere. Um, I can create, I can be in a setting, like I'd say, like my wife and I, and, and I love that you give this advice, is travel, go somewhere without the kids. Um, be more playful, introduce different forms of communication. Introduce different atmospheres of connection. Um, all these things, it's a lot of hard work on the guy. I love hard work. Everything I do, it involves— it includes hard work. So why not bring hard work into my relationship? If I go training, I'm going to work hard. If my hobbies aren't the most relaxed hobbies, they are hard work. So I love that I bring that hard work into relationship. Um, And it pays off. Uh, obviously you're dealing with, um, uh, a mom that's in mother mode first, then wife, then lover, and all these things. So you kind of have to play the field. But, uh, um, like Scott G, I'm just say that, I mean, me, Scott G kind of connect. It's, it pays off. All that hard work pays off. And I tell you what, like, um, yeah, if, if it, that's what really stopped me from going that direction of, hey, I wanna be single again. Um, because it wasn't super toxic, and also it wasn't— it was very rewarding. Okay, um, maybe some guys, and, and I've seen this and heard this, is they do all this hard work and then just there's nothing to show for it. Uh, going the single route, it's going to be a lot of pleasure, pleasure, pleasure, but not happiness. You're not going to build that structure of happiness. So I think I started building that structure of happiness and, um, quality. I know we use this word a lot, quality over quantity. So, um, yeah, it's a lot, it's, it's a lot more quality, uh, that's, that's rewarding.

So yeah, if there's, if there's a, if there's an ultimate, like, uh, lesson to be learned from a lot of this stuff that we've learned over the years of rebuilding ourselves and everything else is that how much— and it sounds kind of quasi-sexist to some people— is how much we as men dictate the mood, the frame, the atmosphere of our relationship. So when talking to a guy who used to be a Mr. Player and he married this woman who he was go— he was, he was, uh, shooting for safe, and in, in doing so he's like, I married this dull woman who just doesn't want to do anything. Well, dude, it's time to shape and conform the relationship to something more playful, as you say. Perfect word for that— sexy, playful, fun. And if there's something that's kind of disturbing that a lot of us guys have learned over the years, it's that women, being that they're far more empathetic than we are, that translates into they're far more, dare I say, pliable than what we think. Um, You got a woman who is just Miss, you know, button buttons all the way to the neck. I never do anything, I'm a school teacher, prim and proper. Oh, you know, clutch her pearls every time anyone says anything slightly sexual. That same woman with the right man in the right context, yeah, dude, she's over-the-rails sexy fun woman to the point where everybody's like, who the hell is that?

Mhm.

We've seen it a million times. So if you want— I wish my wife was a more sexual, playful, blah, blah, blah— well, then quote, make her one. And if that— but there's a lot of assumptions there, which is she's— some women flat out do not have the tools in the toolbox to reach that potential, whether it's by virtue of their past trauma or just they were raised in a home that no one ever said I love you to anybody, you know, whatever it is. And that's what you're dealing with, and you've got a lot of work to get to the point of breaking down those walls. Some it's easier than others, sure, and some it's just you're flat out not a good match. But for a lot of guys, it's the ultimate awakening of, man, all these years I held the key all this time for turning this shit around. And it's true. And a lot of guys listen to that going, yeah, right, whatever. I'm telling you, man, um, a lot of us have seen it with an ex-wife who says adiós, I'm done with this shit, and goes on. And the men are like Who is that woman? She is— since she met that dude, I don't even know who that is. Yeah, yeah, she found a guy that pushed those buttons.

And, and don't— for, for the men, I'm talking to men and women, but especially the men, don't be ashamed of who you're sexual— like, don't be ashamed of your sexuality. Don't be ashamed of who you are. Obviously you don't want to— like, we always say this— don't fucking bring the chains and shit out, or like start buying things left and right, but But, uh, well, yeah, the, the ultimate thing for a guy is a fear of rejection.

It's like the ultimate oof. Yeah, unless you're a Mr. Player type who's like, dude, I've been rejected 300 times, it ain't no thing. You know, you go to some club and go, what's up? And she goes, fuck off. And you're like, all right. And she just go on to the next, and you laugh to your buddies and go, she just told me to fuck off, that was awesome. You know, that's different from a guy who's like, hi, my name— and she's like, fuck off, weirdo. And he's like, I'm gonna go home for the next year and never come out into the dark. It's just, it's a horrible, terrible thing to be rejected. It hits you so viscerally that a woman looks you up and down in a split second and said, you're not worthy of my time. Oof, ouch, that's tough. So you got a guy who's trying to rebuild himself into this more of a Casanova lover type of guy, and he's like, I got these needs, I'm gonna, I'm seeing some progress with a woman, and he goes for it, right? And the ultimate is when the woman goes, whoa, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, that ain't us, dude. Don't try that thing. Oh man, that's the ultimate in ouch to a guy.

Oh yeah.

So we're telling a dude, you got to be more— one of the, the funny little things that we use, I think Jack came up with this term in the, in the DSO group, just be more of a T-Rex, a Tyrannosaurus Rex, to T-Rex, and you just go for it, dude. And sometimes that's what exactly what women want. They don't want a little guy who's kind pussyfooting around like, may I? He just wants a guy that goes for it. Well, the ultimate risk is she may say, whoa, what the hell are you doing, dude? Um, so we have guys that see some semblance of, um, success, like the, we just had a really great session the other night and it was wonderful, we haven't had that in years, and I'm shoot for— and you just pointed it out. And some guys are like, so I went to Amazon and I bought 4 sex toys and some lingerie. Dude, just Chill. Yeah, so there's some kind of— it's a balancing act, it's a delicate balancing. And back to the player thing, the truth, which is always there and it's always tough, is that I can get that level of over-the-top, yes, whatever you want to do, dude, I'm into it, yahoo sexuality with a new girlfriend, so to speak. It's always there. And it's way easier with the new girlfriend than with the woman that you have years of baggage and possible resentments and comfort and kids and all this other stuff. Um, so it's very tough for us guys to, uh, do that balancing act and try to figure out, uh, what's the best way to get our needs, worry about the rejection thing, um, try to be a comfortable, good safe dad, but also at the same time being Mr. Player and, and sexy lover type. It's just a really tough thing to do. And if you're a guy that's been able to juggle that for years at a time, we have a lot to learn from you. Which is, I think, part of why I bring you into the fold, into the DSO world. That's one thing that I've kind of prided myself on is that I don't look outside of our little world to say, uh, I'm looking to hire a new coach. It's just guys that have been in it for years, literally, who we've watched go from, man, I don't know, this is tough to, you know, you started posting videos of here's some ideas I have, guys, here's some thoughts and here's some posting some questions for guys. That's just a guy who's like, it's clicking for me now, guys, and I want to kind of share it with you all. And that's a really big thing. So we're very lucky to have you on board.

Thank you, Ralph. I'm thankful that you gave me the opportunity.

Yeah, uh, it's a growing group and I'm very proud of it. We got 8 guys now who are coaches. I think I mentioned before, and I never thought— would have thought of, you know, 2 years ago that I have 8 guys call themselves coaches in this organization. And we're keeping busy. And, um, you know, we're having— for those that don't know, DSO fraternity, we have— we now have the domain of dsofraternity.com. Go there and you can sign up. And, um, we have live meetings of which Noor's hosting now. And those are all recorded in case you miss any of them. So if you want to catch Noor's old meetings, you can do that. Any of the other coaches, um, coaching obviously, which for fraternity members is way cheaper than if you're not. And then we have the articles and we have a podcast and we got my books and we have an online discussion forums. We got all kinds of cool stuff. Would you say, Noor, let's just keep at this blatant sales pitch here.

Yeah.

Um, is it— how old of a guy are you again? You said 36. 36. All right, 36-year-old dude who is probably in your age— you, most of your friends are married but relatively new to the marriage game, 5 years or so, probably. A lot of guys get married around 30 or so.

Yeah, yeah.

And so for guys in that boat, in those shoes, um, how important is it to stay in contact with other dudes and talk about this kind of stuff?

So, uh, two things I want to say, man. Um, number one, any guy, any guy listening that's, that feels anxious, or any guy that's kind of coming into this, any guy that any— if this message reaches you and you're a guy, you can tap into your natural instincts as, as a dude. And we have our natural instincts and we kind of get the foggy glass of life and, uh, this is what I have to do, or this is what society expects of me. Um, once you tap into your natural guy, like who you are and who you want to be, uh, um, then you can kind of start mixing.

How, how, how important in your little social group of guys around your age, relatively newly married, how important is it to keep in contact with guys?

Yeah.

And you know, a lot of what I'm hearing from a lot of guys is I actually do have dudes that I contact and I'm in regular contact with.

Mm-hmm.

But it's kind of at a superficial level. Like I'm at my kids' football game and I talk with Joe and Bob and blah, blah, blah, and we talk about football and then we go our separate ways. But I see them every week and they're buddies and maybe we'll get together for cards every now and then and stuff, but they're not really talking and bonding and really hashing out this kind of stuff. So how important is this kind of stuff? You know, cuz you right now can get online. And talk to literally hundreds of dudes from around the world and talk about somewhat embarrassing shit and personal stuff— sex and marriage. I can't call my buddy Todd here in town, talk about banging his wife. Just saying that out loud makes me laugh. It's just ridiculous. But I can talk to Noor and Scott and Scott and Jack and hundreds literally of other guys and talk about this kind of stuff. How important is that to you, to have that outlet to talk about that kind of stuff?

A very important, very, very important. I think, I think guys, uh, especially you're not wasting your time talking, you're not dumping on somebody, you're actually getting answers back, and you're talking to people that have either been through what you're talking about or know other people that have been through it. Um, very, very important for men, I think. Uh, especially men are simple. Men, once men get the answer and once they figure something out, they can throw it behind them. They can either like get over it kind of thing. So, uh, yeah, any guy that's kind of, uh, feeling anxious or, or I don't know, is this normal what I'm, you know, or all these things, there's answers. There's answers out there for people, for men. And, uh, it's amazing. I mean, Ralph Brewer, what you've built Is, is, is— it is, it's, it's, it's fucking amazing. And what's happening is it's growing organically. There is no structure. It's like every person that comes into this group brings something unique, and it's growing from there. So whoever is nervous and says, oh well, I'm not worthy, you're bringing something unique to this group. You're bringing something, uh, you just, you're just an energy that's just building. So yeah, I'm gonna answer.

Yeah, if there's, uh, there's some hesitation from guys, I hear a lot is that quote unquote, my situation is so unique, I don't know if I'll fit into the group. Like, dude, we've heard it all. Literally. Seriously. I don't care how freaking embarrassing it may be. We've heard it. Trust me. And then the other is, I don't know if I'll have much to contribute beyond just being a sad dude that just whines about his wife and troubles and divorce or whatever. I'm like, there's something to learn from everybody in all this, no matter what your personal background, your ethnic background, your religion, your whatever. Um, there's something to be learned from all this. There's something I really like. I love to see the diversity of our group, and that's something I want to talk to you about, is your, uh, your background, because you're somewhat unique in the— we have the, you know, I was gonna say, I'm so— I'm happy with the diversity, and I see that we got guys from around the world coming in, but probably a good chunk of our, um, population in the DSO fraternity in the world, I've noticed, is kind of like this Midwestern or South white dude thing going on, but it's starting to get more, more and more diverse. And I'm, I love the fact that we don't see any, I, first of all, let me, I'm babbling. What is your personal background, if I may? If you wanna say ethnic background or you're, oh, I'm, I'm Palestinian.

So people mix that with Pakistan, but it's Palestine.

Yeah.

Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Middle East, and Muslim. And your wife is, uh, pure English, as in from Britain, Great Britain.

English, English. Like she was born and raised there?

Yes.

Yeah. And you guys live in New Orleans?

New Orleans. Yeah.

Yeah. So we got a Palestinian dude married to a British chick living in the Big Easy.

Yo. Yeah.

How freaking cool is that? I love it.

It is.

It is. It's, it's awesome, man.

I couldn't have planned it better myself.

And you have a lot of your, and a lot of your family brothers are there with you?

Yes. To a brother, sister, and I have my, my mother and father in the house next to us actually.

So how cool is that? Wow.

It's really nice.

Enjoy it. That's neat. That's neat. And her family's still over across the pond?

Yeah, her family's there and then they fly in as much as they can, which is really cool. I mean, it's 8-hour flight, come in, visit, spend time with the kids. I'm very thankful. I even tell, tell my kids, I was like, you should be very thankful because you, you have 4 grandparents that are still well and alive. Yeah, that's really healthy.

Yeah. That's awesome.

And they're involved in your life. So yeah, that's, that's really good.

So you have the foundation for a lot of really good stuff there, this extended family to lean on, which is so rare. I mean, I can't— I was gonna say I can't believe. I can believe because it's my own story. I don't have that extended family here. All my family's over in Spain, but, um, the ones I know of at least. So I love to hear these stories of these extended families. More often than not, what I hear is we moved out in the middle of nowhere America, away from her family away from my family. We're stuck here alone. We get a divorce. Oh shit, I have nobody to lean on. So you're very, very fortunate with that. Mm-hmm. So count your blessings with that. I'm just curious, any kind of conflict with the difference in the ethnic backgrounds, especially with the religious thing, the Muslim, and I would, I would assume her family being from Great Britain who comes from a Christian background.

I think she's Catholic background.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think so. She, she discovered that recently too.

So she doesn't sound like a serious Catholic on her part.

No, no, she's like, give me Christmas and I'm good. So that's, that's the type of person. Yeah, she's really chill.

They call those, uh, cafeteria Catholics. They just pick and choose what they like out of it. I like them. The mass is pretty and I go on Easter and Christmas, and after that, I don't know.

Yeah, and even the, the, the family members I've met on, on her side that are religious, it's, it's kind of the same. It kind of blends in. So Uh, her mom's really like really into the religion. Oh, I think Catholic. I don't want to, I don't want to—

but no, no conflict there with, with Muslim? Especially, you know, in the last years with all the wars and everything going on, a lot of people that are very ignorant of the Muslim world are just like, uh, you know, terrorists and everything else. So I didn't know if you had seen any of that, uh, within the family structure there.

Not that I've heard of. I mean, I could care less.

If I did, like, that's a good attitude to have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, no, she's respectful of it. Um, no, it's, it's, uh, I can't speak for my wife. Like, I don't want to sit here and be like, she's this, but from what I've seen, she is. She's, she's very involved in the Muslim Islam, uh, aspect. My daughters pray, my wife prays every now and then. She knows how to recite the, the verses while praying.

Very cool.

She's like, just, I'm, and, and I'm taking a step. I'm like, hey, wherever you take it, you take it.

Yeah. Like with any religion, you know, we have a lot of Jewish guys that are Orthodox Jewish, which is very different from your typical American Jewish. The Muslim, there is some Orthodox Muslim where the women, you know, covered, this is the only thing you see type of thing. So I don't know where, where your family is in that, but would you say you have daughters? So do you, is that something, was it hijab? Hijab.

Yeah.

Yeah. Hijab. So is that, uh, do you guys go that far with it, for lack of a better term?

I like how, I like how I've been raised. So the generations I'm familiar with, nobody was pressured into anything. And I love that.

And that's what I've seen too, from Muslim friends that I've known over the years. It's like, they're very casual about it. Like, yeah, yeah. I got an aunt who does cover up, but none of, none of us do. So, and nobody's beating them and forcing them to do so.

Yeah.

So yeah. Okay. Very cool. Very nice. Good. Cause I could see definitely where that would be a, a cultural conflict if you don't— it would be very good. And as a Muslim man in the DSO fraternity, have you ever been made to feel out of place?

Nothing.

No, not at all. Good.

Not at all.

Good to hear. Good to hear.

That's what I love about this group. It brings in— there is no politics, not much religion, even the religion that is mentioned, it's the person's thoughts. Nothing. Pushed on anybody else. Everybody respects the atmosphere.

Oh, trust me. Every now and then we have a post about something about politics or, you know, the existing president, sitting president, whatever it may be, blah, blah, blah. I just immediately get out.

Okay.

You're doing a great job because I haven't deleted immediately because that shit can go south in a hurry.

Yes.

Yes. Politics is just insane. And you're right with the religion thing too. As soon as we see some, I don't think I've ever shut down any kind of religion related post. But the politics thing, yeah, maybe once a month we'll have something that I'll get rid of. Nice. But cuz that just, regardless of what I think, I don't give a shit. You know, that doesn't belong in the group. There's plenty of other places to talk about that stuff. And in our group, that ain't it.

Doing great.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Appreciate it. And we're looking forward to seeing you in Las Vegas.

Yes. I'm trying my hardest to be in Vegas. I really am pulling a lot of strings for work and all that. There actually might be a guy Costa Rica trip that I'm definitely going on. It's like 5 or 6 guys.

Yeah.

We're all doing—

that's cool, that's cool—

full-on adrenaline trip. But, um, I'm pulling a lot of strings. I'm— I really, really want to come Las Vegas. Uh, I haven't missed a BroFest yet. I mean, there's only been two.

Yeah.

And, and I want to keep that streak going. Uh, every time I go, I learn something new. So you can— that speaks a lot to, let's say, anybody that's new to it. Can you imagine the information you're gonna you're gonna get in the atmosphere you're gonna be in. So, uh, yeah, if I'm gonna say anything about BroFest, it is really on top of my list as, um, there's a lot of gold nuggets that you come back with, uh, information and, and, uh, just great set of guys. I mean, just great, great all-around people just to be around a couple of days.

It's a major eye-opener because we have a lot of guys that have zero guy time. Cause they're just wife, kids. Mm-hmm. Especially divorced guys that are like, I just work, I take care of my kids and that's about all they do. Then you throw 'em into an environment like Bro Fest. Go to dadstartingover.com/brofest for those that don't know what we're talking about. And just surrounded by all these guys, all on the same mission of doing better, getting better, all dealing with the same and very open and very loving and all that good stuff. Throw them in that for a period of 2, 3 days. And then they're like, wow, it's almost too much. Like, it's just, this is what I've been needing all these years and I've been missing it. You know, I've had guys pull me aside, said, this is amazing. I've never done anything like this before. Been with a group of guys like this. Sad, but I'm glad to be the person that can help provide that to them. That's awesome. And it gives momentum. Like how many, after each Bro Fest, the guys that went to the Bro Fest, I always say they're ready to run through a wall. They were just like, I'm so pumped. I'm so ready. Here are my goals, this is what I'm gonna do. And yeah, you can see it kind of slowly dissipate over time and the posts, you know, are less frequent. So we have to keep these little events going, you know, keep, keep trying to keep up here as much as possible. But so that just shows you how important it is, this guy time and, and, and the aftermath.

I'd say the aftermath as well. I think, I don't wanna go off percentage, but this is just my rough math. I think more than 80% of every guy I've seen go to Brofest, I've seen them succeed after, fully succeed and just kick ass. And like, I, I'd say more than 90% probably, maybe.

Well, like from a business perspective, it costs money to put on these things. So we, it's not a freebie. So we have to pay for the hotel.

Yes.

And the food and the people that come and all this other stuff. So there's money involved. So if you're a guy that's gonna spend all this money to go to this event and take time out of his life, you're gonna be naturally more committed than a guy who's just kind of like, I just check out a meeting every now and then and listen to the podcast and that and spend my $14 a month and that's it. So we're seeing the crème de la crème, if you will, the, the, the top of the top of guys that are committed and like, I better, I better put some work into this. Look at all this money and time I'm putting into this. I better do something out of it. So you're right. And yeah, we've seen guys transform in that for sure. Yeah, it's an awesome thing. So guys, people that are listening or watching this, dadstartingover.com/brofest, and it's coming up in February of 2023 in Las Vegas. And I'm hoping to have some more announcements about maybe some special guests coming and some other stuff coming. So we have several months here between now and then to get that all arranged. So fingers crossed, we'll have some things to announce here soon. So guys, check that out. And yes, you don't have to pay all up front. We do have a monthly payment plan. You can pay like 10 payments and we'll cover the hotel and all this other stuff. So gonna be a good time. I'm looking forward to it. So for Noor, Noor is now one of our coaches, which means you can book time on our website with Noor to chat with him one-on-one. To talk about and learn from him, to talk about things such as— Norm, maybe you want to fill in the blank. What are some things that you feel you bring to the table that a guy can chat with you about?

I think what I bring to the group is I can help people get out of their shell. Uh, I know what that feels like. I can help people kind of, um, get out of a funk. That's what I'm good at. I'm good at reading a person's energy and seeing the warrior inside. And I'm not— and I'm not a bullshit kind of guy. I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass and be like, hey, you, you're, you're this and that and build you up. You know, if I see a warrior in there, I'm gonna call you out on it, and we're gonna drag that motherfucker out, and we're gonna, we're gonna make that guy work. So, uh, anybody coming into this group, it is work. It's, it's extra um, it's extra effort. It doesn't have to be exhausting, but it is, it, you know, you have to take steps. Um, I'm getting way off, but, uh, what I bring is I've been through a lot of shit, I've climbed out of it, I have the tools, and I know how to explain how to use those tools. That's, that's, uh, I'd say number one. Uh, number two is, um, I can give people an a view of another kind of lifestyle or something like that. If people— that, that's, that's another thing I bring. I've lived different lifestyles within my, my lifetime. So, um, I think I bring that in. I haven't— I've never, you know, I wasn't the type of guy to like go high school, college, then become this and that. It's just like one— no, I've, I've done an array of things. So anybody that's like, uh, thinking about going this route, I can kind of be like, hey, yeah, maybe I've done that. This is what you're probably gonna expect to happen.

Yeah, I'd say if you have a brand, it's a guy who's taking advantage of what time you have on this planet and gotten a lot of shit done.

Yes.

The thrill-seeking thing and all this other stuff. And hey, I don't have much time left, let me work on this marriage thing. And yeah, you don't sit back and let shit happen to you, which is unfortunately kind of the default for probably— do it— dare I say the majority of people out there. Just go through, just go through the motions, man. And the next thing you know, you're 50 years old.

Yes.

And that's no way to live. That's, that's just a lot of, um, regret. Regret is the word. It's a lot of regret. And that's the worst thing, just to look back and go, fuck, why didn't I do—

yeah, yeah.

It's one thing to have very real monetary and physical limitations in your life, um, but it's another to say you've just been given all this tools in your toolbox and you've just ignored them your whole life, that's regret. So then go to dadstartingover.com/coaching for that. And, uh, check out the DSO fraternity, dadstartingover.com/join or dsofraternity.com. And you can join in, nor in some live meetings on Zoom. We talk about a variety of different topics. If you miss a meeting, no biggie, catch the recording. We record all those. You listen to them right on your phone. And join in on the, uh, online conversation. And if you want to really kick things up a notch, join us in Las Vegas, Nevada, February 2023 at BroFest. So we got a lot going on.

Hell yeah.

And, uh, got some other things in the works too, which I don't— haven't even shared with you yet. Some little ideas for some additional in-person meetup stuff, because as you can see, we need to do more of that, keep the momentum going. Some more lower-cost more frequent stuff for our guys to do. So still working on that.

Nice.

But, uh, Noor, that's been about an hour. That went by fast.

Yeah, that's great. It was really good.

All right, well, buddy, thank you so much. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for joining the group and finding the group, you know, a couple years ago. And, uh, so happy to see you. Thank you. Elevating in the ranks, so to speak. And I think you're gonna help a lot of guys. And, uh, what, what better— what Is there anything better in the world? Just, you know, go to bed every night saying I help people.

Yes. No, no, there isn't.

It's great to do that. Yeah. That's awesome.

So we're grateful and, and, and thank you for setting the platform and creating that. It's, it's really amazing. So yeah, thank you again. I mean, thank you.

All right. Well, that'll do it, guys. For those listening, dadstartingover.com, dsopaternity.com, and Noor, thank you so much, buddy. We'll see you around.

All right, Ralph. See you.

Bye.