Introducing Steve from Australia - The Newest Member of the DSO Team!

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. All right everyone, DSO here from dadstartingover.com, and with me today is a very special guest. Mr. Steve comes from us, uh, comes to us all the way from sunny Australia, the land of drop bears, kangaroos, what else, Vegemite.

Koalas.

Yeah, well, drop bears. Isn't a drop bear a koala? A rabid koala?

Yeah, well, it's sort of like, it's sort of like the mythical— yeah, koala.

No, no, no, they're real. They're real.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, they're real.

We have something, we have something similar in the States. I don't know if it's a statewide thing, but it's definitely in the Midwest where I grew up called the snipe. It's a, uh, it's a make-believe animal that you, as a joke, you go out snipe hunting. You take some gullible kid out there with you, you know, kind of thing. So yeah, same type of deal. Well, welcome. Um, reason I have Steve on today is that Steve is the latest and greatest addition to the Dad Starting Over team. Steve operates as a coach and meeting host and ambassador of the Dad Starting Over world all the way, like I said, over there in sunny Australia, which is a hugely growing population of readers and members of our DSO fraternity members group. It is right now, it goes US and then Canada and Australia, and then those two are pretty close. So it's not like Canada's way in the lead. So surprisingly, a lot of members out in Australia. Maybe that's a good starting point. What do you think is so popular, or why Dad Starting Over is so popular in Australia?

Yeah, thanks, thanks for the time to chat to me, Ralph. Yeah, of course. Um, yeah, it's, uh, look, it's really um, popular, I guess, because, um, we, we're all in— we're very similar in the, the men and the way we talk. I mean, it doesn't matter, it's sort of— it's global. The same sort of problems, the same sort of issues, um, marriage, kids, just that, that track of just growing apart. Uh, it doesn't matter if it's over there or here. We have— I mean, Australia is a big country, uh, geographically it's the same size as the States. Uh, if you go end to end. Yeah, but of course the population is just nowhere near, of course. So we don't have the cities, we don't have that so much. Of course Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, they're big cities, and Perth. But yeah, there's a lot of white space in between. So, but in, in saying that, it sort of makes it even further apart for men to reach out and hang out, have good time, all that sort of stuff. They don't really get together as much because, yeah, a lot of the time You know, if you're, if you're in the middle of Australia, you're, you're, you know, a couple hours drive from a buddy. So the technology now with, with, with this, uh, it's fantastic. So people can connect.

Yeah.

And I think same problem, yet, yet maybe just more spread apart.

So, and with your, with your distance and the time difference and everything else, you guys, do you feel quite often really disconnected from the rest of the world as far as you're just off schedule from everybody else? I mean, you're 14 hours ahead of me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As we joke about— yeah, it is tricky. It is, it is, um, does make it hard. But you know what, we're just so— I think like every country or every person in the world, you're just so wrapped up in your own little bubble and world. You're just constantly just thinking, I've got to do this, this, this, this, this, and you don't really think about— you know, I think when I was a kid in the '80s growing up, like everyone idol— in Australia that I know, a boy was like idolizing America. Like everyone wanted to go, oh wow, like all the TV shows would come from there. And, and you know, like if you had a friend that went over traveling, you were like, oh, you can get bubble gum like 3 meters long, you know. Like it was just the crazy toys and lollies that we just could not get here. I remember getting a— I was into martial arts as kid. And I remember getting my best mate went over there and he brought back a ninja suit with ninja stars. And I was like, yes, because it was so cheap. And he's like, no, I just bought it for you. I'm like, oh my God.

I was, uh, I was majorly into karate as a kid. I went— I was like, you know, I was really into Shotokan karate. I did tournaments and all kinds of stuff. I had a ninja outfit. I had the shurikens— is the proper term for the throwing stars— and the nunchucks and all that. Oh yeah, I was all into that. There was a whole series of— while we're going off on a tangent here, there was a whole series of movies called Revenge of the Ninja, uh, with, uh, starring a Japanese guy named Sho Kosugi, and those were huge in the States too. There was a huge ninja thing in the States. Yeah, yeah, it was huge here. You just brought back a lot of memories when you said ninja outfit in the throwing stars. So just my, my '80s childhood just flooded back to me. So we're roughly the same age. I'm 47 and you are 45. Okay, so yeah, about the same age. Um, so I had a buddy of mine who worked in Australia for years, and when you had Matefest, which for those that don't know, we have gatherings, in-person gatherings so far just in the States that we called Brofest, where we all gather together and we have a hotel and we have rooms and conference and we go out and eat and have all kinds of fun, and we do that for 2-3 days. Our next one's coming up in Las Vegas, by the way. BroFest February 2023. Well, Steve took it upon himself to say, this is really tough for all of us Australians to fly all the way over to the US for these things. Let's put on our own. And this was hilarious. And he said, instead of BroFest, we'll call it MateFest because they call each other mate there. And I thought that was hilarious. And he really ran with it. And that, that was a huge event. We had a— you guys, did a lot together in person. We had a big online Zoom portion of it. My wife got on there and met with you guys. It was very cool.

So, awesome. From the UK.

Yep, Faisal from the UK. Thank you. Yeah, it was, it was excellent. That was a really good event.

Um, yeah.

So anyway, when we had that event, uh, I remember telling my buddy who lived in Australia I was about to get online and talk to my Aussie buddies. Then, uh, and he was saying, how many guys do you have with that? I said, it's quite a bit. It's Probably like hundreds in our group. And he's like that— he said, that doesn't surprise me, um, at all. He thought that the guys that he worked with in Australia, he saw more often with them marital problems than what he did in the States. Now he came from the mining industry, so he worked for a big company that created the mining equipment. That's what he did for years. So he saw that world. And I think, yeah, that lends itself— that extreme blue collar, I'm away for long periods of time underground, literally away from my family— that lends itself to all those kinds of problems. So yeah, kind of interesting.

Definitely that, that fly in, fly out, um, it was a big boom about 15 years ago. A lot of guys in engineering, tech, mechanics, you name it, anyone that likes— is a grease monkey, they all just went, hey, go over to Perth, the other side of the country.

Yep.

And work there for 6 months or something and be on triple your money what you're getting.

Yeah, yeah.

It was a big carrot to a lot of people and even chefs in my industry. I'm a pastry chef for many years and just to get them over and yeah, and then of course all the real estate boomed over there and then people, I think the ones that are smart at the time bought a house and then rented it out because it was like double rent of Sydney and Sydney was the highest.

Oh really?

Wow. Wow. It was insane. They were just capitalizing on it all. But yeah, for a few years there was just this big boom of that. Going over. But yeah, the fly-in fly-out, they made it all look attractive, but they don't, you know, like everything, everything's lucrative, you know. I always think the money, money, money, and of course, as we know, yeah, not everything, everything pushed to the side, and then you come back and you realize, well, everything's just turned to absolute shit.

Yeah, it's very similar to guys in the military. Um, we have here in the States guys that go work in the oil fields, or you go work out in a boat, you know, and fishing for months at a time type of thing. Yeah, those divorce rates are astronomical for those professions for sure. So, but that's not necessarily your story. I thought it'd be interesting to get into, um, I guess first of all where to begin would be how you found me and the Dad Starting Over world exactly.

Yeah, so basically I was, um, I was going through with my wife after, you know, I had my own business as I said my own patisserie bakehouse and it was very successful. So I was busy being the man at work and the boy at home. And, uh, 3 kids, uh, one is autistic, so there was a big bit of a challenge there, more for my wife. She really dove into that. And then I just started saying, you know, we're not really connecting, there's not a lot going on. Um, we were great parents, great team and all that sort of stuff, but everything was okay and I did have money issues. We had money coming in, stressed, business stressed a lot, and I would bring that home. But so we were going through trouble and I was like, no, this— something's not right, you know, I'm not happy, I'm not satisfied, um, with what's going on, um, bedroom, etc. And so I just started, um, I was, I was actually, I actually took it, I said, look, I I think we should go get marriage counseling. So we did a bit of marriage counseling, and that was quite helpful, um, in some respects. But I think it was more like, when I look back at it now, we ended up just— it was like basically doing I Want to Do the Talk with you, my wife, and have another ref— I have a referee. Yeah, push it even more. And so I was like, it really— it, it helped, but yet it didn't help at the same time. So my wife ate a lot of things, but yet, you know, and she, and she was on board, you know, she, she saw that there was something not right as well, but she, she trusted me to, um, you know, she, she recognized that I wasn't happy and she wanted to help. So we, we did it together, and, and then it still was on and off. And then I started Googling, um, I think I was— I think I typed Google search, um, sexless marriage, and, uh, because we We'd only been, I think, 2 years since our last child was born, or not even a year and a half. And then I was just Googling that one night, and then I saw— I think I was on looking at some TED Talks, and the ad for the Bedroom Fix came up. So that came up, and I went, oh, what's this? And I went, that looks pretty cheap. I've got to— that's really like— I'm like, wow, like, why not? It's, it's not a lot of money. I'm like, and then I went in and I went, well, I, I'm not a book person, I'm an audio man. So, uh, like, uh, you know, I've got some books that take me a year or so to finish, but because I just fall asleep. But audio, I'll smash it out, you know, while driving, work, whatever, and, and really listen to it and sometimes go back over it. So yeah, so I saw that and went, yeah, I think it was $20 Australian. So really, like, you know, I read some reviews and it all looked great and I went why not? So I did it, and I think it came within— I think it took about 3 or 4 days. It didn't take long, um, from being in Australia. So, uh, sorry, sorry, so the audio— sorry, it came straight away. Yeah, but I don't think I got it. I think it was like late at night or something, so I'll, I'll leave it till tomorrow or something. And I was busy and everything, but as soon as I listened to it, I think I listened to it in 2 sittings. Uh, and I just went— and, and in between I was like, I've got to finish that, that, that book. That was like, what, what, what is going on? Like we say, so many guys are like, you know, it's like, it's like DSO knew exactly, he was watching me all these times. I wasn't doing all 5 mistakes, but I was, yeah, definitely a point 4 out of 5. Uh, so yeah, so then, and, and then straight away, um, I think the next day, I think the my neighbor to where my shop was here, he managed the gym and he used to come in and get coffee off me every day and I'd chat to him and I said, I want to come in and see the Savo. He's like, oh yeah, sure, sure, I want to sign up. And I've never been, never signed up to a gym ever.

Oh really?

And yeah, never. And my wife had always actually said it, so why don't you join a gym? You know, she actually said it a few times. I'm very, um, um, skinny fat, so I've always been skinny, never been able to bulk up. Uh, but I was getting around the midsection a bit once I hit about 35. So I just did home weights and stuff but never did a gym. So yeah, so signed up and didn't tell the wife, and, and then, you know, uh, as we say, and then it started. But then, um, she asked me why I was so late getting home with our son, and I had to tell her. And she goes, I've been telling you that for years, thank God. And yeah, and then just started going to the gym and working on me. And, and working away and, and loving everything and loving the, the shift in my mindset. So really it was the weights first and working out first for me, definitely, that the health mentality. I was doing 4 to 5 days a week, and because it was right near work, it was really convenient. And we were actually in the process of selling the business, so back then, and it wasn't because of the trouble we were having, but because we had so much, uh, responsibility ability with kids and that we didn't have any support from our family. They lived 2-3 hour drive away. So it was like, you know, my wife was like, really, you know, we need some support, we can get out a bit more. I went, yeah, of course. And I agree. So, and I went, you know what, I did my 10 years with the business, was my last tick as pastry chef that I hadn't succeeded in and went well. So I went, yeah, I'm cool with that. Let's, let's go. And I could work casually and and do whatever and yeah, get work. I can work anywhere being in food, so that's fine. And yeah, so we're in the process of that. And yes, so then, then I, um, so all that, you know, that excitement and, and building on myself and my self-esteem was going through the roof. And I, um, had actually got caught up in the whole, um, you know people just, you know, being impressed and the whole validation thing from other people. My wife was, was validating me as well, and we were starting to, to, to make inroads, which was great. I could see some, uh, some wins, and it was fantastic. Everything was going good. And then, uh, one night I, I made a colossal mistake on my part, and, uh, it was like my, my, uh, my wake-up call, my, my rock bottom. And because I was only about 2 months in, 2 or 3 months in the journey, I think at this stage, and we'd just gotten through Christmas. It was a very, very hectic time of the business. It's the busiest time of the year for us. And a lot of stuff was going on with staff and things, and I was trying to sell the business and we had a couple sale options fall through and it was just all this stuff. So yeah, so it was just, I hit my rock bottom and then had to pretty much go back before worse than where I started, and I had to work my way back up. And I took responsibility. That was the first step. I straight away took responsibility for what I had done. And, uh, you know, so I just did that and then worked my way and built, built trust for my wife, myself as well. And, uh, you know, alcohol was a big part component of that mistake, so did a, did a full purge, and I haven't touched, uh, spirits since.

Oh, well, good for you.

Good for you. I haven't. So it's coming up, it'll be January, it'll be 3 years on that one.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And then I kept a little bit of beer. I was never a big heavy drinker, but I was a social drinker, so binge drinker in Australia, you know. Like, I was a guy, like, you know, I'd be on the dance floor, heaps of, heaps of spirits get me fired up. So yeah, so just get rid of that and, uh, and then work on my way to being a better dude. Yeah. So it just kept going. And then of course got some coaching and talked to yourself and Scott M and then worked on myself. We sold the business, that all went well. And then we moved, we sold the house and got debt-free totally, luckily in the boom during COVID So we did really well there and then moved up closer to her family and my family.. And yes, so it's been really good. And then had some time off and spent time with the kids. That was huge, even though they were homeschooling as well, which could be hectic, but just working on myself and being more around my family, that was a huge thing for me as us as a unit. And then of course after a while I started to— the mindset, I started to get anxious and really need to sink my teeth into something. So I thought, right, I've got to get in and do some, um, do some work, uh, back in my industry. So yeah, I got, got another job and I've been working there for about 7 months now. And yeah, keep working on myself and, and, and, you know, doing everything I can and, and helping a lot of guys on the way.

So very cool.

It's been awesome.

That's awesome. Now the part of your story where it's, um, you needed to be closer to the family because you felt yourself being pulled away and you lost that connection. That's relatively rare, I think you would agree, by listening to a lot of the stories we listen to. A lot of the guys we talk to, it's the opposite, which is I'm so embedded with my wife and my kids and I've become Mr. Mom and a lot of stay-at-home dad types and that type of thing. And that's where they notice the wheels start falling off. So it's different ways of coming at the same conclusion with the disconnection. When you're too close, it's a good way to become disconnected and turn off that fire and you lose that sense of independence, which is attractive for both sides. And if you're just so intertwined 24/7, there's no room for your individuality. Um, but for you, it was, yeah, you're an individual, but you kind of forgot to, what, be Mr. Husband? Not putting words in your mouth. And, um, probably if you ask the wife, some of your fatherly duties were lacking as well. And if you have a special needs child, oh my goodness, the amount of pressure on the wife that sort of thing. How many kids total?

3.

Yeah, wow. So say no more. 3 kids, husband who's gone all the time. Um, yeah, no wonder you guys get disconnected.

I was, I was working at my, at my peak with the business, I was probably doing 70 hours a week, uh, 7, 7 days. I'd always have Sundays off. Um, I'd do the odd Sunday, um, but yeah, it was, um, full on. And then I'd always start early and I'd be up at 4 AM and stuff like that, so I wouldn't help in the early mornings, but at least I'd be there in the, what we call the witching hour, and the crazy afternoon of getting kids. So I'd be there for the bathing and all that sort of stuff. But a lot of the time, I think my big— my biggest downfall, my biggest mistake with the Five was just emoting and saying the stresses. I'd come home and, and the wife would go, oh, how was your day? And I just go, oh yeah, this, this, uh, this girl worked at this. This guy did that, the pastry chef did this. And she's just like, uh, okay, well, I, I, I've got a lot to get through here and you're telling me all this and I've got kids screaming. And yeah, it was, it was just too much, the pressure, the buildup.

Yeah, all day long. And her perspective is she's been with these kids all day long and the special needs child, and she's just, uh, she just wants to collapse probably at the end of the day. Oh, thank God, here comes Dad to help take over some of the role and And you're like, no, let me dump on you and just put even more weight on your shoulders. Here you go, wife. Just think, oh great, wonderful. So yeah, just all around, you did check every box as you went. But then, and I don't wanna say because of my awesome book, but that was the little spark that lit the fire. But I mean, this is 99% of it's you and what you did. You just kinda did the dummy and duh. And let's go. Um, that let's go and let's do is relatively rare. There's a lot of guys who see that and they have that spark and they go, yeah, but man, putting in that work and doing what's going to be needed to turn this around, shit, I don't know. I don't know if I can do that. And let's just pretend I didn't see any of that and continue on my merry way. But no, so kudos to you for, yeah, really putting in the work. And then you fell And then you said that was, that was another opportunity to go, hey, I tried, it's, it sucked, I failed. No, nope, got to keep at it. So, um, I'm, I'm saying all these glowing things about you. Just curious, what does the wife think of all of this process and this evolution of Steve and everything else?

Yeah, well, my wife's— I'm very extroverted, so she's very introverted. Of course, that's probably why we make such a good team. Yeah, dealing I think she's very highly organized. She was the legal secretary and stuff like that, so, but for a few years, so she's very organized. And, um, and she helped me with the business, which was great. She would do that side of it, um, or paperwork and stuff. But yeah, she's, she's, yeah, she's quietly very, very happy about it. Uh, she makes comments. And look, we have gone, like, like I sort of joke and say, well, joke, I can laugh about it, but even though I made such, such had my rock bottom, it put us in minus, or put me in minus, uh, before I started the journey with, with DBF and yourself. And, uh, and then to start from there and to build up, like, how far we've come as a couple and how much we can talk more. It's opened her up. It's— she, she would talk to me, and it's just, there's no— there was a lot of, um she couldn't quite talk to me about things. And yeah, I think the council would say we should throw the, uh, Gottman thing, uh, um, stonewalling. So you're stonewalling, you've got to let Steve, you know, just come down. And I think I, I sort of comment and joke that to myself, and, and I've mentioned it to her, you know, I just take a brick, I'm just pulling those bricks down, and we're pulling them down together. And yeah, she's, uh, yeah, she really enjoys it. You can see the, the, um Physical chemistry has definitely improved. Oh good. You know, yeah, a lot, a lot more. Like, there's a lot more— she wasn't— I was a much more touchy kind of guy, like most guys. We like touch, grab ass, all that sort of stuff. And, you know, I had inappropriate moments, which never works, especially when you have a wife that's introverted in front of children. She's like, what do you do? I never got the whole bad resentment. I never got, you know, get off me. You know, I hear guys dealing with that. And I go, wow, you know, like, that's— that is— you've gone so far down that path with your wife, it's a lot more work to get back. Yeah, I was lucky in that sense. I was sort of, you know, a bit— you know, I took note from my wife saying, don't do this in front of the kids. So I sort of, you know, I like to, you know, try and keep it— but then you can go the other way and keep it behind closed doors a bit too much. So yeah, there was— so getting that back and, you know, little touches and touching my arm and things like that. It was, yeah, it definitely, definitely helps. It definitely helps the relax and the pressure for her to open up. Yeah.

And so in during— how long has this process been from reading the book to now?

Well, so I got the book in, I think it was around October 2019.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Yeah, so going on 3 years now. Going on 3 years.

Yeah, coming up 3 years. Yeah, over. So yeah, it's huge.

So in that process, you've been really involved in our group. And just so we know— excuse me for a second while I cough— for those listening that aren't familiar, um, when I say our group, we have a members-only group portion of dadstartingover.com called DSO, which stands for Dad Starting Over. DSO fraternity.. And, uh, we get together online and we have, uh, very frequent 24/7, uh, online discussions in our forums. We have Zoom meetings, which— of which there's 3, 4, 5 a week, um, where guys get together and chat live on Zoom. We record all those. We have hundreds of hours of those you can listen to. Articles, podcasts, the whole nine yards, and access to my books. Well, Steve's been a part of that from, from the beginning, really. And very active. And, um, we've— like with every other dude, we've seen the ups and downs. And right now your trajectory is definitely up, and you've taken the bull by the horns. You did the Mate Fest thing, all your improvements. You've been so involved. So this is when it was obvious, like, we need to get Steve more involved in this. He's been such a champion of this cause and such a good model for, look what you can do, guys. And we need more of that. So that's why we brought Steve on board. And now, um, if you— if you are in Australia, or really anywhere in the world, and you want to work with a guy like Steve and say, dude, how did you do it? Help me out here. You can do so. And you can go on our website, dadstartingover.com/coaching. DSO fraternity members, so you guys know, if you go to the coaching site as a non-frat member and you look at the pricing, you go, eh, a little much for me. The frat members get a pretty good discount of the pricing. And it's a good way to book time with Steve or any of our other 5, 6 coaches now, I lose track. Um, and, uh, all the rest of them are in this— nope, that's not true. All the rest are in the States. We also have, uh, Gustavo, who is in the States, but he's, uh, from Puerto Rico originally, Spanish speaker. And then, uh, David, who is from Bolivia, Spanish speaker. And then now Steve from Australia. So we're going international. So very cool. This is a big step. Um, and I can see that, that growing and growing for sure. We need some guys in the UK. Uh, we have gentlemen in South Africa. It's another big section for us. So a big thank you to you for everything you've done for the group. It's been amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing where we go next. You have the— do you have the next Mate Fest lined up, an idea, or when?

Yes, so I've got another brother helping out, uh, with that one. So we're talking about— it's either— well, we're probably talking about May next year, and it's going to be up in Brisbane. So we're looking at venues right now and just assessing where to go. We've narrowed it down so we know roughly where in Brisbane we're going. So it's a great spot. We've picked out the gym and things like that around it. So yeah, we're just going through that. We're just going to sort out the actual presentations and things like that. Very cool. Yeah. And sort out the date. We actually had a gathering, a local gathering just last night. With about 8 brothers.

And yeah, I posted the picture, I look great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so we try and catch up whenever we can. Uh, so I sort of took a little back step. I did the first couple, uh, for Sydney, and then, uh, I think we had, we had 11 of the biggest, um, guys together. But that was really cool. And, you know, guys, you know, a lot of the guys that are heavy in the group now, and I, and I think I want to touch on that. I think with the fraternity as such, and, and coaching. I think if people go, well, how did you go so fast, Steve? How— why are you a success? Why did you do it? Because I got involved. That, that's the biggest thing. I think a lot of guys, you know, like, it's hard. It is hard. I, I understand that you— it's hard to do that first post. And my first post was, was one of the hardest things I wrote, but I did it. And I just went, you know what, I'm just going balls to the wall, get it out there, and just and clean slate, start fresh. And, and that was, that was at my rock bottom. I posted, and, and that said, that was around February. And then, and then I just worked my way up from there, and I just needed that boost of confidence. And that's what guys in the, in the group— because it was just, we didn't have the fraternity then, it was just a private Facebook group— and just having that support, I think all guys just got around me and goes, well, dude, you took responsibility, you know what That's all you can do. And just now you got to get to work. Yeah, I did. And but not only that, I got in meetings and I pushed myself to talk. I mean, people go, oh yeah, you don't have a problem talking, Steve. Well, once you get— once I get going, that's fine. But that initial— yeah, yeah, you know, I get really nervous. I even got nervous before this. So, you know, and I've done plenty, so, and I've hosted different events, so It is, it is hard. I've been in a kitchen most of my life, pretty much. Uh, I've had staff, I had about 12 staff, but I've had a lot of apprentices, so I've had a lot of mentoring experience there with young guys and, and things like that over the years. I've been doing it since '93, so it's been a long time. I've been around mainly male predominant, and, and women too, but mainly male. So dealt with a lot of guys. But yeah, just getting involved and speaking out and talking and and getting involved in the group and getting that great feedback and support. And that's the difference between the fraternity. So I jumped on that one. Yeah, I'm happy. Straight away, pretty much life member, joined up and got it going. And then, and then reaching out to other guys in the area, having a buddy, made a great friend up the road, um, that we just found out we just live near each other. Wow. And so just having that and doing— we went cycling together every week and just getting on that train. And he was there last week.

That's cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just doing that and just getting out and meeting other guys. And I— yeah, I was always the guy that had a hard time talking to other men. I would always, you know, if there was social interactions, I would end up with the women. That was just my nice guy trait.

Very calm, very, very calm. Yeah, yeah, very common.

Yeah, I just, I just find that opening and get— and then, yeah, and then I would mix with the guys as well after a couple of drinks. So I came out of my shell with alcohol. That's what, yeah, would draw me out. And, uh, so yes, just doing that, but getting involved and being involved with me.

Yeah, yeah.

Getting the boost of coaching, that, you know, that just kaboomed my brain to really work on me. That whole one-on-one, uh, environment with another— with a coach, it just really propelled. I went, right, I could work on this. And then I would, um, because of Zoom, so it's recorded, and then I'll be like, look after— look at it another day. Oh, I forgot about that, gotta have that, and, and go through that. So just having that process just on you alone, it's, it's worth its weight in gold. And as you said, it can be you know, some people may balk at price, but then you go, well, hang on, there's a lot of work involved for 1-hour session. As you know, behind the scenes, it's not just a 1-hour session, it's pretty much a 2-hour session because you got to put in the, the back backlog of, you know, just going through that, that particular dude's story and, and going through that process and working with him. And then it's, you know, the odd message and make— keep him accountable. Making sure— I've got one guy that's, you know, he's going to the gym, and I'm like, right, you're going to the gym, aren't you? Because for 6 months he had a membership and he wasn't going to the gym. So I'm like, I'm gonna make sure you're going to the gym. So that's all, that's all really important. It's all part of it.

So yeah, you've hit on a couple of big things here. One is, uh, the camaraderie, the importance of that tribal fraternity, whatever you want to call it, just a group of dudes. And it is something that, um, You know, when you look at the group and you look at our, uh, the stories that are shared and stuff, the concept of social anxiety is not foreign to the group. I don't think our group is unusual in that regard. I think that's a pretty damn common thing now, where a guy will walk into a room, just scan and say, there's a bunch of dudes talking to each other versus 2 or 3 women over here. A lot of men will gravitate right over to the women. Hey ladies, how's it going? Not because in a sexual sense or in a flirtatious sense or anything, it's purely platonic. It's just that looking at that group of dudes is very intimidating. There's— and why is that? I think it's a natural thing. There's kind of a hierarchy at play when it comes to men. You know, it's some dudes the top dog and you kind of have to earn your way into a group, so to speak. But what I think a lot of guys are surprised by, especially men that have very little experience in these type of groups is just how once you break the ice, crack the surface, so to speak, and you're in, is how warm, welcoming, loving, and the whole nine yards it is, to the point of being like, this is ridiculous, I had no idea it was like this. Some, some men are just like, no, never in a million years what I've thought. And then they actually compare it to, uh, their platonic female group, and they're like, that's nothing, that's just shallow nonsense. That always has that that weird connotation of, I'm man-woman, I never quite fit in with them, but with these guys I fit in 100%. So once you get past that— in our group, there's no initiation or hazing or anything like that. The icebreaker is basically, here's my story, and that's it. That's the icebreaker. And then boom, you get 40 replies right away, a bunch of people saying, yeah, me too. Next thing you know, some guy's direct messaging you and you're chatting and et cetera, et cetera. Um, but that initial icebreaking, this is my story, is tough for a variety of reasons. It's tough for guys just to open up and be vulnerable. I've done it before, I'm going to get hurt, you know, especially those guys that went through terrible divorces and all the horseshit. Um, plus the whole I'm intimidated, I'm going to get made fun of like I was in school, or whatever it may be. Um, but we're all mature adults, we've all We've seen it all, we've heard it all at this point. Um, some pretty bad stuff, some pretty embarrassing stuff. We've shared it all. Um, and to get to finally break the ice and go, that wasn't so bad, and then boy, they take off from there just like yourself. And they're booking the sessions, they're in on the meetings, and they become one of our regulars. But I tell you what, the majority of our group though, and if you guys are listening to this Um, you guys need to wake up because most of you are kind of wallflowers. Because I see that, uh, I can see who's paying month to month, every month, renewing every year. And I'm like, I don't know that name. And I go real quick and look him up and go, he's never said a word in the group. Um, he's listened to some podcasts. He's— I can see who downloads the meetings and listens to those, but he's never once said, hey guys, here's my story. So if any of you are listening to this You need to get the biggest bang for your buck, and you need to get involved. Um, they can do nothing but help. I've never seen somebody share their story and then come to me and say, I'm out of here, this is not what I thought. Never seen it in these several years that we've had the group. Um, if, uh, you know, our group is not for everyone. It's not for every single dude on the planet Earth. If you are very much an introverted wallflower, I cannot I can't stand the idea of talking to other humans, I much prefer to be alone in a room, leave me alone type of guy, may not be the best group in the world for you. It's relatively cheap at $14.99 a month. I mean, it's not, we're talking hundreds of dollars here, but I want members of our group to be Steves and go out and tell the whole world, dude, $14.99 a month, look at everything you get for this, this is amazing, and I talked to this guy, I talked to that guy, I was in this meeting, I was in that meeting, I went to Vegas, I did all these cool things, it was awesome. Um, so you're not going to get the biggest bang for your buck if you're just a wallflower sitting there reading messages and not participating. So get out there and do that. You'll find, like most guys do when they're in these kind of groups, that we're a warm, welcoming bunch. And that's the hump you need to get over to really make those big self-improvements. If you don't get over that hump, you'll always have that I wonder, I wonder what would happen if type of thing, and you'll be stuck. Um, I'm sure there's some improvement that can be made by sitting back and reading, but it's the actual doing. And that just goes— that's every aspect of life, not just this, our little group. That's everything. Professionally, you got to raise your hand in a meeting and talk and give your opinion. You got to be able to put up those boundaries and tell people yes, no, whatever. And it goes for everything.

Yeah, you've got to, you've got to get out here. Don't let life pass you by. It's, it's like, like I said, start small with just talking to a guy. And yeah, exactly, you, you get that, oh, hang on, they're gonna stiffen up. And you know, who's this guy walking in talking? You know, who are you? And ignore you, they ignore you. And you just go, hey, I'm— and just introduce yourself. And, and you may, you might just stand and get involved quietly. And that, it's just, it's just small steps. Start small, work your way that way. And yeah, but if you don't get involved in anything in life, whether that be job, whether that be anything— education, relationships, anything in life. If you just sit in a room and do nothing, well, that's what you're gonna get. Nothing. It's just as simple as that. And it's, it's hard. I, I see and I speak to different guys so much, and, and, and just messaging and seeing in the, in the, in the chat and the group, and you just go, well, hang on, this guy hasn't, you know, been involved much at all, and you try and understand their backstory, you know, they might comment or like, you're like, yeah, exactly, like, who's this person? Where'd this guy come from? I even don't know this name. And, and then you're like, okay, well, we can't help you. We can't, you know, we all know or seen it or know someone that's dealt with it, whether it's another guy in the group. We go, hey, you should talk to this dude, you know, message him. And we might tag him in it or, or whatever, just to go, hey, he's got such a similar story. And we pretty have— pretty much have a lot of the similar stories or parts there.

Yeah, you all know that's the—

what to do and how to get going.

That's the interesting thing, is that, um, the, basically the sole reason for my success in all of this was because of the book that you read called The Dead Bedroom Fix. Um, that is not the crux of everything that I do in the Dad Starting Over world. That is just one little part that I happen to write a book about a topic And I put it out there, and that's what appealed to a heck of a lot of guys and brought them into the group. But so we have some guys that see that and say, well, I'm divorced, I'm not married and worried about my sex life, this group doesn't really apply to me. Oh no. What we have found is whether you're still married in a dead bedroom, still married and discovered your wife's having an affair, you had an affair, you're divorced, whatever it may be, they all— all these things intermingle. And they all have a lot of things in common. They're not just these little silos of, of, of an audience that don't, you know, interact in any way and they can't learn from each other. No, we've had plenty of guys who, I'm in the middle of a dead bedroom for months, if not years, etc., and then all of a sudden, oh crap, I just discovered my wife's affair. Well, now you belong to this club over here, and guess what? We're all in this together. And then in the end, you're like, um, you Yeah, the prescription is kind of all the same for all these guys. The mental health aspect of it, the physical health aspect of it, the getting your goals in line, working with men. Welcome to real life, buddy. It just kicks us between the balls in a lot of different ways. And if you think you're gonna do it all by yourself, good luck. It doesn't work.

The book for divorce dads is They Just Found It Too Late. It's as simple as that. Generally, those same problems, they go, yeah, I wish I had that 10 years before I divorced, uh, you know, so then I could have gone back to the path and, and worked on myself. And yeah, the journey is, is a lot of work, as you said earlier. A lot of guys go, oh, you know, I don't know if I could keep doing it. I had those moments. I had those moments where I was stuck and I was like, oh, you know, I'm doing this and I'm not getting much. Results. And it probably was, I just wasn't looking in the right headspace to see them. But I was caught in that, and that's where I needed a shift of change. I needed, uh, I had gotten to a certain point and plateaued. So, and it happens, it's the, the ebb and flow of it and the push and the pull and all that polarities between you and your wife and then you and life with everything else that's going on around you. So just having that. And that's where I, um, I knew it was my brain, my head. I was getting frustrated in myself. So I thought, yep, hook up with Scott Morales, you know, one of the coaches. And wow, just, he just opened doors in my mind that just blew me away. And, uh, and I still say, I still speak to him regularly. And, uh, you know, so just having that and passing that knowledge on to different guys because It's a bit different here in Australia for the fact of the distance. So we have, you know, like, like we have that little bit of a barrier because of time zone, etc., but also a little bit of the lingo and, and a little bit of the, um, I wouldn't say ego or anything, I would just say it's just different culturally slightly. We're very similar, but we have some slight differences. So I guess some guys that actually use it as an excuse get coaching, which is kind of sad. Uh, they go, well, yeah, I don't know if I want to deal with the Americans a little bit. I'm like, well, I have, and I have— I don't see it as a problem because I don't, I don't judge people like that. I'm very open to— I think there's many years of working with different, many different cultures and different people from different backgrounds. Lots of Europeans I've worked with, uh, you know, um, different, um, you know, Middle Eastern and South South Asian, East Asia. I worked with a lot of people. I lived in Singapore for 6 months and worked there as a patient. So I've dealt with different cultures and things like that, and I've traveled Canada for 6 months. So I've dealt with different people, and, and I think that has helped me. I don't, I don't judge people like that. I can talk to anyone, uh, which can be a good and bad thing, uh, but yeah. So just having that, um, I don't understand why, because I feel that everyone, no matter where you come from, what background you have, some experience and some nuggets of gold to give, and it's just extracting those little things and picking them out. But I look past that and do it, and that's why I, I've loved being a mouthpiece for the fraternity and for coaching from before I was a coach, of course, because yeah, guys use it as a bit of a, a bit of a procrastination thing, and it holds them back a little bit. And I just don't get it. I don't understand. But yeah, But yeah, I understand where they're coming from, but I don't understand why they don't want to better themselves. And do they just want to be stuck where they are and just live that humdrum life?

Yeah.

And just keep going and, oh, we just kick the can down the road, or we just push those problems aside. Yeah, I've got this going on and that going on, but I'll deal with it later. I'm too busy doing this and that. Well, you've got to put in the work.

Well, let's think about, for a lot of these guys, um, What does going through a major change or major introspection— what could that potentially mean for them? It could potentially mean completely flip-flopping their life and really looking at everything clearly and saying, oh crap, this is just a complete and total mess. We have some guys in some pretty toxic relationships, you know, wife is a frequent infidelity, drug use, whatever. And to really put the magnifying glass on the situation not even a magnifying glass. He'll just look in the mirror or just clear the dust and say, dude, pay attention to what's going on here. You know, they put their fingers in their ears and say, la la la, I'm not listening. Um, well, why not? Because that could potentially mean, uh, uprooting my family, leaving everything, not seeing my kids every day, losing a lot of money. Uh, I don't want to face that. And usually what happens is eventually they have no choice but to face it because it's The wife pulls the trigger on the divorce. Uh, wife ends up in the hospital, in the gutter somewhere, something like that. We've heard it all. Um, so I can understand a lot of guys need what I call that holy shit moment to wake them up and just go, oh, there's, there's no denying this now. I can't ignore this any longer. I have to deal with it.

I'm pushed into the corner and I have to react and take— well, I joke and I say, you just— when they come to me like this and, and I've spoken to you guys that are like, oh, what's done this, my wife's doing that, and we're like, man, pick up your balls, get them back and do something, flip it, change it around. And the reactions they get, they're just totally shocked of how, wow, my wife, you— I did what you said, Steve. I didn't want to, I was scared out of my mind because I was so afraid of I don't know what. And that's what being afraid is. It's the unknown. It's basically the unknown. And, and dealing with guys— even myself, I haven't gone through a divorce personally, but I've met and talked and, and worked with guys that have. And I'm— I like to think that I can't help you with the, the, the, the lawyer talk and that sort of thing, but I can— and I know guys who can, so I have those connects. But I'm more that, uh, moral support and getting you through it. And taking lead, I think taking lead during that situation. And if your wife, you know, wants a divorce with you, well, okay honey, this is what we're going to do then. And just doing that is, is just a huge thing. And then, and then they'll— I said, oh okay, well, oh all right, what do you— and then they're like, what, where did this guy come from? You know, and it's just a total change and they're totally shocked at the way the response they get. And, and it can be, and it can be so much better And then, but then the problem is, is they go, well, now I'm getting, getting positive reaction from my wife. Do I want to stay with her? And it's all this, but they get on that journey of, you know, they, but they have the choice in their hands. That is, that's huge.

That's huge.

And that, yeah, that's huge. From being totally, I don't know what I'm doing with my life, I don't know where I'm going because my wife's doing all these things and painted me into this corner and I have to react, to Oh, I have options. Yeah. Oh, okay, they've got back their ball.

I often, I often use the analogy of like, uh, you're pretending like you're, uh, in a video game. You know, when you play a video game and you grab the controller and you're just sitting there holding the controller going, man, I hope so-and-so happens to my little video game character, and you're just watching. And I'm just like, pick up the goddamn controller and hit the buttons, dude. You're in control, do something. And they start fiddling with the controls and they all be damned. Yeah, wow, I can make a little guy jump. Look at that. It's like, yeah, you had the controller the whole goddamn time. Um, but for some guys that's a scary thing.

Yeah. And, and, but unfortunately, this is the funny thing about your wife has been waiting for you to pick up that controller for years. You just never did it. You just slowly disappeared. It would just walk away from that controller, totally dropped, dropped it and left it alone.

And you touched on something earlier about the diversity of some of the guys in the group, and this is something that I'm proud of as we get bigger and bigger. Um, if you're a guy that's dumped in the group and you're like, uh, dumped into— guy who's joined the group and you're like, uh, you know, I wonder if there's another pastry chef in here. Anybody? Uh, sure enough, you're gonna have somebody that's gonna go, me. It's like, hey, my, my situation's a little different. I'm lifelong military. Anybody military by any chance? 3 dozen raise their hands. All right, well, you're bound to find somebody in the damn group. When we have, um, we have a pretty good, um American Christian conservative contingent. We have Muslims from around the world. We have guys in Canada, guys in Europe. Now we're getting into more of the Latin American thing and Hispanic culture. So I'm proud of that. I love the fact we're becoming a more diverse group. I want to see more of that, not necessarily from— because that's a politically correct thing, that's stupid. No, just because all the valued perspectives that we bring to the table I'm some dude in the middle of nowhere Indiana. You sure as hell better believe you can learn something from a guy in Jerusalem and vice versa. Your perspectives just bring all kinds of value to the table. And why wouldn't we want to do that? And to say, you know, just from the comfort of— here I am in my basement office right now and I'm talking to a dude in Australia, for God's sakes. This is like something out of sci-fi. I never would have dreamt of this as a kid back in the '80s, you know, in my ninja outfit throwing sharp that I'd be having a video chat with some dude, you know, halfway around the world. It's insane. Um, but the fact that we can do this—

probably doing the same thing in the '80s.

That's right. So, uh, it's just nuts that I can quickly get on with a coach, get on with a meeting, get online and talk to some guys and just say, anybody have any words of wisdom with this particular scenario? I guarantee you somebody will say, been there and done that, and here's what I did. And 3 other guys to chime in.

Yeah, the biggest one I've mentioned too many times in the group is, you know, you've got a problem, doesn't matter what time of the day, someone is going to respond. You could be— I mean, you know, suicide is such a, such a big thing, male suicide. And, you know, there's no point in me rattling off the statistics because they're just scary.

Yeah.

But you get to that point, that low point, and of course, I, I mean, I don't think any male hasn't thought of, you know, wondered, fantasized, and then even continued on further. I know I fantasized about it when my autistic son was struggling with him as a toddler before we knew. So I had those moments of, you know, I'm just lost. And of course, who did I talk to? The wife. So, you know, dump all the problem onto her, and she got really scared. Yeah, but I had no one to talk to, and because I felt like I had no one to talk to— I had plenty of people to talk to, but dudes are just, just— we're all just so busy getting, having kids and families and working and on that rat wheel of just, you know, just trying to make it, make something and pay off, and, you know, expenses and, and all this sort of stuff. And we're just constantly stuck in the provider role and, and building an empire, but yet everything is going to Wasteland, like I said, but just having someone where you could just reach out that you don't even know. And I think having that, that, um, anonymity of just going, just going, oh look, I'm really low, guys, I'm really struggling, you know, I need help. And you'll get 20 guys, you know, because it could be 1 o'clock in the morning in Australia and it's, it's midday over there in the States.

That's right, that's right.

Yeah. And everyone's like, oh yeah, dude, what's up, what's up? 'How are you?' or 'What's going on?' And, you know, 'I've DM'd you,' and, you know, just having that support and having pizza and just having that, um, having guys— someone's there to listen and to give you great advice, supportive, great advice. I think we have, we have a few Facebook groups in Australia, and I think I've mentioned this to you before. You could mention, you know, they're open public ones, and you can put them out there. There's thousands of people in them. And you guys, and then you can put them in there, and the advice they give is they're more concerned about their likes and laughs than what they are about giving, helping guys. Yeah, it's all rude, crude, and joking, and it does not help. It really does not help. I look at them and I just, I just go, really? Like, and, and, and you try and help guys and some will love it, and then some guys go, really? And and insult you. And you're like, like, what, what is this mentality of male ego that, that they can't— that refuses to get their right help? And this is where, once you're in the frat and you get involved and, and start to meet guys and then meet them personally, just go, what a great— like, how do— how did I not find this earlier? How did I not meet these guys? This has been— like I said, there's a guy out 20 minutes drive from me and he is like— I share more with him than I do anyone in my family. Yeah, he knows more about me, and I've only known him one year. So you just go, yeah, yeah. And he was just up the road. I mean, of course I didn't live here, but now, you know, and I'm sure down, down where we were living, there was probably another guy down there. Actually, there is. I've met one. He's only 40 minutes from where I used to live. There's another guy, another member of the group. So we just had this connection. And, and once you get in, you saw, wow, and, and we could, we could almost like finish each other's sentences. And from the get-go, it's, it's almost eerily scary how similar we all are. And even at different ages, uh, it's, it's, it's a great thing. And, you know, like, we— and that's why I'm part of this. I wouldn't want to be involved in any other capacity anywhere else because I want to give back. To what I got from yourself, your books, and, and the group itself, the fraternity. I owe that, and I will for as long as I live. It's all shouted to the rooftops, like, you know, guys need something like this. I don't care if it has to be something else, but you've gotta— you can find something like this, you're on it. You're— you've got the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Just go and use it, get in there, and just live it.

Yeah, you got it. Amen. Couldn't have said it better. I gave a little quick little speech at the beginning of the last BroFest that I basically said, uh, guys, you were— all of you under the roof right now in this room are some of the luckiest sons of bitches in the world, and you don't even know it. You just all came here. We all have our health. We all have enough money to come here. It was, uh, where was Austin, Texas, for example. And you're all here to get better. And at the time, we had two very prominent authors that were hanging out with us Dr. Robert Glover and G.S. Youngblood, authors of two of the biggest books, self-help books for men ever in the world. And they were sitting in the room with us hanging out all weekend long. And I said, it doesn't get more silver platter, here you go, than this. And if you don't take advantage of this and grab some nugget of aha information that you can carry forward, man, I don't know what else to do for you. This is about as good as it gets. And that's kind of the the spirit of the fraternity in general. Look at all this smorgasbord buffet of helpful information, and we're tearing down a lot of boundaries. Guys from all over the world, here you go. And oh my goodness, and you're a testament to what you can accomplish if you just go help and help out each other, other guys too.

In saying that about BroFest, quickly, I just want to add to that. Being in Australia, I was online, as you know, And I joined those, those rooms. I didn't get to all of it because I went for so many days. Yeah, you went for so many hours and I couldn't be there the whole time because I had to sleep in that. But I was involved. I got on with Dr. Robert Glover, and man oh man, I actually spoke after that and I was in tears. It's just the emotional rawness, uh, the connecting to your father. I was just— and, and how's that? That now, that's eerie. That's weird. You— I mean another country far away, the other side of the globe, and I am feeling what those guys, my brothers, were feeling in that room at the same time with Dr. Ralph Brewer. That was just, that was just mind-blowing for me, and it was, it was just such an amazing moment. And yeah, you can— that's, that's the beauty of technology now. You can tap in and be involved no matter where you are. If you don't, can't afford to go, well, you can be involved with meetings and and get help that way and have a one-on-one, get coaching and all of it. Such a— yeah, like I said, you just got to get involved. Otherwise you're just gonna, I said, kick the can down the road and nothing's gonna happen. If you don't put any effort in, nothing will happen.

You got it. You got it. And one last quick plug: dadstartingover.com/join, and you'll see all there is to know about the DSO fraternity. And Steve, if guys want to reach out to you and maybe ask you a little question here and there about, uh, coaching with you and so forth. Uh, email address— what's the email address? I forgot what email address we set up for you.

No, that's okay. It's Steve with a V, so S-T-E-V-E dot White at dadstartingover.com.

Steve.White at dadstartingover.com. Steve, it's been a pleasure, buddy. Thank you so much for everything you do, man. We greatly appreciate it. Love you to death. So glad to have you on board and look forward to— hey, here's a question for you, put you on the spot here. Do we have any short-term goals or anything in mind for Steve's self-improvement going forward? I guess could be in any aspect, professional or otherwise.

Yeah, I definitely, uh, because of sort of— well, of course with the coaching, coaching is a real important thing, helping and getting involved more with that. I've got meetings coming up, uh, next month which is great. I'm really excited about that, and it's going to be more in line with the Aussie timeline. Yeah, which is huge because a lot of guys in the— it's generally meetings in the US, uh, in the morning here, which is fine for me being a pastry chef. I get up early, but a lot of guys don't. Uh, so I'm gonna do night meetings here, which, uh, you know, which is great. Kids go to bed and the guys can jump on and have that, and then we're gonna have fun. Yeah, so that's going to be— I'm really looking forward to that. We get some more Aussie guys. Matefest coming up, um, middle of mid— beginning of next year sometime. So that'll be coming out soon. For myself professionally, uh, I probably will look to changing a little bit, but, um, but yeah, still in the realm of pastry cooking. That is what I know. I've been doing it for so long and I could just do it in my sleep. So I will move around and, and, and I like to move around. I don't like to stay stagnant in one, one position. So I'll just work casually and keep moving. And yeah, who knows, like, I've got so many opportunities that, that I can do. Um, but yeah, it's, uh, just, uh, mate, just really working, keep going in the gym and working on myself and spending as much time as I can with the family and trips and doing all that fun stuff with kids. You know, my kids, the oldest is 12 and that, so, and then down to 5-year-old, my little girl. So just getting getting out there and having time with them when you can. Yeah, you know, you don't get that back.

So that, you know, 12-year-old's a boy.

Yeah, yeah, so he's the eldest boy.

Okay.

And then my son on the spectrum, he's, he turns 10 next week, or in a couple of days, sorry. And then, and then 5, uh, the little girl. So, you know, just passing on, even passing on things to them and teaching them. I love spending time with my eldest and doing man stuff. And, and, you know, he's starting to talk to me about girls.

Oh, there you go, there you go.

And, and I'm just like, you know, and actually he's, he wants to listen to it, whereas sometimes he's like, I don't want to hear anymore, Dad. But yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's a great time. It's, it's been a lot. I'm loving it.

I'm really good.

Excellent. All thanks to you.

So thank you, thank you, thank you so much, my man. All right, guys, thank you so much. Steve, thank you again, buddy. Appreciate it. I'll let you go.

Thanks, thanks, sir. Thank you.

Have a good one. I'll see you too.