Jumping From Relationship to Relationship - Do You Not Like to Be Alone? - A Dear DSO Live Chat

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. All right, folks, Ralph Brewer here, and we have a new Dear DSO entry on the website. You can submit your own story or question to Dear DSO. And today we have something a little different. We have a, I guess you could say, live guest as opposed to me, you know, just normally reading an email to you guys and giving my, my thoughts on the matter. We actually have the gentleman here with us. You can't see him, but he's here with us. Kind of think of it like an old-school radio call-in show. I say old school, they still have them. People call in on shows and we can talk live back and forth. And with us here today is Christopher, Christopher, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Ralph Brewer Brewer Brewer. Appreciate the time. I really do.

Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you. So what brings you to my world, the Dad Starting Over slash Help for Men world?

Well, to be honest, a little background first. I have been married 3 times. This is my third marriage and I am headed for divorce. Again. And I have two small boys, and I started to see, um, snippets of your videos and information on Facebook. And, uh, you know, I always thought the advice and conversations were very, um, very good, very helpful. So, um, I, like I said, I am currently separated, um, from my wife of 6 years. Um, a little background on that. Um, everything was really good obviously in the beginning, you know, the whole honeymoon phase, you know, first 12 to 18 months, you know. And then, uh, things started to change. Um, you know, a lot, a lot less, um, a lot less intimacy, um, a lot less closeness, you know. And when I talk about you know, intimacy, I'm not always referring to sex, you know, just that whole closeness together, togetherness, you know, started to drift away. Along with the sex, along with it, you know, so it went from, you know, every day of the week to, you know, twice or maybe 3 times a week down to, you know, a rapid decline. You know, going from that to, uh, before I left, I think it had been 3 or 4 months, you know, without intimacy. So, um, I have, uh, I have 2 small— well, they're not so small anymore, but I have 2, I have 2 boys. And, um, I, I was living over an hour away from them. Me and their mother were engaged for a little while. But unfortunately, when we started dating, I would say probably about 3 months in, she got pregnant. So that happened really quickly, unexpectedly. I mean, she's a great person, you know, but, you know, so we, we ended up, you know, everything was accelerated.

You know, this, this was one of your previous wives?

Yeah, yeah. Well, we were, we were never actually married, but Okay, everything. Yeah, we were engaged for a little while, but everything was—

we'll just call her wife to keep it simple. So that was— that was woman, wife number 1, 2. Which one was this one?

No, no, she was— she was in between 2 and 3.

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, okay. So hold on a second. So we have— we were technically married once, twice, got engaged to number 3. It didn't work out. You guys went your separate ways, and now you're with number 4, who you did marry. So yes, wife one, wife two, girlfriend slash fiancée didn't work out, but you did have a child together. And then wife number three, and this isn't working out. So buddy, um, we got a track record here.

Yeah, yeah, there's a pattern there. Yeah, um, yeah. And, um, you know, one of the reasons why things did not work out with, um, uh, we'll stick to wife number three. My boy's mother, is I found out that I had— I suffer from a mental illness right after my oldest son was born. It kind of triggered a lot of things. And I kind of struggled with that for a very long time, at first accepting it, and then following through with treatment, finding the right treatment, so forth and so on. So, but back to what I was trying to initially get to, Um, so yeah, so, um, my, my current wife and I, we've been separated since August. And, um, like I said, things started to go downhill after a couple years. Um, you know, lack of intimacy, uh, a lot of fighting and arguing. Um, you know, I— it's for the past 2 years consistently being told that, you know, she felt alone. She didn't feel like she had a husband. She didn't feel like she had someone she could rely on. Uh, you know, as a partner, you know, all those things on a consistent basis, you know, for at least 2 years. And, um, you know, so it was a struggle, you know. We tried counseling, uh, we tried date nights, you know, uh, you know, I feel like we put a good effort into it, um, but, you know, things, things just didn't really change. So, so I, yeah, so in August, I left, I actually left in May the first time. And then, you know, my, my, my children live, they were, I was an hour away from my children. And that was a big problem. My oldest son was suffering from depression, you know, because Dad wasn't around, you know, and some of the things that, you you know, their mother. You know what, I try to be a good co-parent, and I don't think she's a bad person. But I do believe, um, you know, based off of some of the things that happened during the course of our relationship, things that I did, uh, you know, while not having my, you know, mental illness under control, I did some pretty horrible things. So, um, so I think she harbors— yeah, yeah, she harbors a lot of anger and resentment, you know.

Sure.

And I don't think— I don't think she, she, uh, I don't think she tries to punish me, so to say, but, um, I think she lets that influence some of the things that she tells my kids. And, um, you know, I, I think she tries to make it as hard as possible for me, um, you know, to, to be a positive impact on their life. So I found out that— yeah, I found out that my oldest son was having issues with depression because I was so far away and not around as much as he would like. Um, so, you know, I, I, I, you know, the marriage was bad. Things were going south, uh, you know, felt like I had done everything I could. So I moved out this way, um, closer to my kids. I'm now 10 minutes from them. And, uh, yeah, so I mean, before I, I made the move permanent, you know, I spoke with my current wife and said, hey, you know, let's, let's move closer to the kids. Let's get a house and And she didn't want any part of it. So, you know, so, so here I am.

So at what point, where in the stages of wives, let's call it, did you be— did you become formally diagnosed with your mental illness? And we say mental illness is bipolar, manic depression, whatever you want to call it. Is that the flavor?

Bipolar?

Yeah.

Okay.

And so where was the— in the timeline of all these wives, where was that diagnosis and treatment?

That was in between 2 and 4 with, uh, my kid's mother.

Yeah.

Okay, so, so wife 3, if you want to call it that.

Yeah. Okay, the fiancée that didn't work out. With, with the fiancée that didn't work out, were you— cured is not the right word— were you in successful treatment at that time? Was that the new you?

No, see, see, that's the, that's the thing. Um, like I said, I struggled for a very long time getting that under control. And, you know, like I said, staying diligent and sticking with, you know, the regimen that needs to be done to make sure that I'm stable and, you know, healthy for myself and my children. So, so yeah, it took a long period of time for that really to cement itself and really take place. Yeah.

If I may ask, what does the treatment regimen look like for you? Is it pharmaceutical plus Certain lifestyle changes?

Yeah, some lifestyle changes, the appropriate medication, therapy, you know, making sure I consistently see my, my doctors. So yeah, it's a, it's a solid regimen of that. Yeah.

In what ways did your bipolar affect or have an effect on all these previous relationships?

Oh, gosh. You know, it's crazy to think, you know, like I said, I had a hard time dealing with acceptance of that. I always wanted to associate my depression, my manic episodes, and my behavior. I always wanted to classify that as situational, you know, circumstantial. I'd, you know, this happened for because of that, you know, which isn't true. You know what I mean? But it took a long time to, like I said, get past that and accept, okay, there's something actually here that needs to be addressed. So yeah, it, it had a lot of detrimental effects on, you know, me, a lot of risky, you know, choices, behavior, whether it finances, relationships, sex, you know, just a lot of overall bad choices and risky behavior. Yeah.

Yeah, well, for those that are watching this that don't know what bipolar or manic depression, uh, is the current term bipolar? Is that the accepted classification? Yeah, yeah, yeah, depression is kind of an old school way of saying it, but, um, characterized by— it varies person to person, but typically you say the textbook is extreme highs and extreme lows for extended periods of time. So you would maybe go on a bender of very little sleep and a lot of compulsive spending and sexual behavior, a lot of risky behavior, followed by extreme downs of being in bed for long periods of time and sometimes being suicidal. Was that your experience? Yeah.

Oh yeah, yep, exactly. Yeah, I can—

not, not only would I think that that would have an impact on how you are while in a relationship and how they're impacted by you, but I would also think that would have a great deal of impact on selecting a a mate. So if you're, if you're in the middle of an extreme high episode, are you— is that when you are meeting these gals?

Uh, yeah, usually that's, um, that, you know, that, that used to be the recipe for disaster, so to speak. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, and so that would be— you'd fall quickly head over heels. This is the one. It has to be the one. Let's, let's get hitched. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, but between fiancée, which didn't work out, and the now wife, let's call her. Yeah, um, let's call her Mary. So Mary, um, while with Mary, you are, uh, in the midst of your treatment. You're doing well with the pharmaceutical help and so forth. So she sees new Christopher. Yeah, she's like, this, this is the new one. But did she meet Christopher when he was already in treatment?

Um, uh, yeah, actually she did. Um, you know, um, I did have one episode or one setback, um, right after we first started dating, um, after I moved in. Um, so yeah, I did have one setback. And, you know, I, I, I feel like, um, you know, we've had— we had conversations prior to deciding to move in together regarding my mental history. Um, so I don't think, like, I don't think, uh, I don't feel that it was anything that was out of the blue. But, um, but yeah, I did have one setback, but since then, you know, everything has been going great as far as that.

So is with her, is it safe to say, with Mary, let's call her, is it safe to say that it, the, the bipolar is kind of a non-factor in your relationship?

Um, yeah, I would say so.

Yeah, at this time she's, she's aware of it. It's been stable. You did have one blip, so to speak, you know, one, uh, one dip there as far as, you know, you had an episode, but that was managed well. So what is her, uh, if we went to her and sat her down and said, how come you and Christopher aren't working out, what would she say?

Well, um, she would say that, um, you know, it, it's, uh, you know, it, like I said, it, it's kind of, um, kind of confusing, you know, um, to be honest. Like I said, uh, I mean, you get, you know, you're fed one consistent message, you know, for years, you know. I'm not talking once or twice or something said out of anger or for spite. You know what I mean? So you get that consistent message and you see the deterioration consistently. But if you were to ask her, you know, she— because she doesn't want the divorce, you know.

So, so the message, the message from her, I get confused with the timeline with all the ladies. She was the one to say at the beginning of the conversation, you said that she said You disconnected. You didn't feel— she didn't feel what, validated by you? She didn't feel connected to you for a period of a couple of years?

Yeah, yeah.

So she was telling you this repeatedly, and your response to that was what exactly?

Well, I mean, we, we tried counseling, we tried to go get professional help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of, a lot of communication, um, you know.

So, so your thoughts on the matter are, dude, I, I listened to her I tried to change, I tried to get professional help, and nothing would suffice. Nothing would make her happy in that way. Um, so your contention then is that she really doesn't have— her, um, her criticisms aren't based in reality?

Um, but her criticisms, as far as what, like towards me, or yeah, from the relationship towards you? Oh no, no, I mean, um I look at it like this, you know, I mean, everybody has, whether you're the husband or the wife, whether you're just boyfriend, whatever, any relationship, both sides have specific needs that they're looking to have met. And, you know, if those needs aren't being met, then you're going to be unhappy. You know, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't call the things that she said criticism. I never really took it as criticism, but at the same time, you know, it's, you know, it— like I said, I just came to the realization that, you know what, she's not happy with me. I've made a tremendous effort, I feel like, on my part. And as far as counseling and things like that to make things work and to change the situation and you know, it didn't really change anything. And, you know, so that's, like I said, that coupled with finding out about my son's depression due to the fact that I wasn't around as much as he would like, you know, you know, I came to the decision, well, I think now I need to put my kids first.

And, you know, so you were putting an inordinate amount of time and energy into her and the relationship and trying to fix it. And get it to a place where you're happy. And maybe you took your eye off the prize as far as your child is concerned, and you, you have a sense of, uh, some, um, guilt, or you take some ownership over you could have done a little bit more. Maybe you contributed somewhat to his mental health issues. So you're like, Mary, we need to— this ain't working. I need to concentrate on kiddo over here. And her reaction to that, you say she doesn't want to split. Is that right?

No, no, no, she doesn't want to split. You know, and like I said, it's strange to me. Like I said, I was fed a consistent message. And that message didn't change until after I left. You know, you know what I mean?

So I'm upset. I'm upset. I'm not happy with the way things are. We need to change. We need to change. You're like, okay, okay, here's— let's try this. Let's try that. And it's for a period of, you say, 2 years? So this isn't working for 2 whopping years, and finally you're like, let's just, let's just call it, and I'm gonna go concentrate on my son over here. And her message to you now is what? I, well, I've been happy.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, uh, her message now is along the lines of, well, you know, I was being too harsh, you know, um, uh, you know, I reflected on things, and, and, you know, I did this, you know, she's taking a lot of Uh, she, she's compartmentalizing a lot of the issues and taking, taking blame for those things. But, you know, um, like I said, I, I, I kind of just feel like, you know what I mean, this— that's the way you felt now for, you know, 2, 3 years. There's nothing wrong with that, you know. If, you know, I, I've been through 2 previous divorces. First wife cheated. Um, second wife, uh, lied about the, uh, having the ability to have children.

So, so yeah, um, meaning she said she could but she could not.

Exactly. Yeah, gotcha.

Okay, because in your mind she wanted to— she wanted you as her husband, she was going to tell you whatever in order to get that.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's odd.

Yeah, yeah, very strange.

Um, so, well, but you know, but there's part of me, and this is going to sound somewhat flippant or insulting, that's not the intent, which is which is the, those relationships were done under the, uh, umbrella of the, the bipolar.

Yeah. No, you're right.

Yeah. And so I would assume that they are chaotic in nature at baseline, that there's a baseline nature of, of chaos and dysfunction there, um, because they were born out of your, um, manic episodes, basically.

Yeah.

And so, you know, to say, hey, Ralph Brewer Brewer Brewer, they were kind of chaotic relationships that didn't end well, it's like, well, I would be surprised if they weren't. And so, but now we're in this relationship that is, you would presume, much more stable ground, the beginnings. But here we are kind of in a chaotic state once again. Uh, maybe that's not the good definition of it, but it's not ending well. And, um, you had a gal who for a period of years kind of pushed you away, and it's like, I— you ain't doing it for me, Christopher, we got to fix this. And you tried. To your credit, with the professional help and everything else, and it didn't work. And so it sounds like you guys are going your separate ways and she's trying to hang on, which is not unusual, as you know. You know, when I often have a lot of guys that are pursuing their, their mate for years— can we work on this, can we work on this— and finally he's pushed away, you know, for the 100th time, and he's like, okay, I finally get the, the hint, okay, I'll go away. And sure as shit, as soon as they go away, the woman's like, well, where are you going? Right. Come back. It's, you know, I kind of miss being pursued. You know, where's my pursuer? And you kind of— so anyway, yeah, maybe you have some of that dynamic built in there. So it sounds like you're going your separate ways. So I'm cheating a little bit here because you emailed me ahead of time, so I know what's coming here in the story.

Right.

But my thinking would be ideally, all right, Christopher, how about we cool it with the ladies for a bit? And let's, you know, you've got a track record here. Chaos, chaos. Of course, we have the bipolar thing that's been worked on. We have a nice successful treatment. Hallelujah. Okay, in the middle of that, you did get married once again. That didn't work out. Somewhat chaotic. You had the awfulness of that, but you've learned your lesson. Maybe we can take our, our lessons that we've learned and cool it a bit. Work on ourselves, find ourselves. But we know what's coming here. Did Christopher already find somebody else in the midst of all this?

Uh, yeah. Um, I, uh, I mean, I'm not, uh— I mean, there's, uh, when I moved, um, I met, um, there, there I met this incredible Uh, and that's the thing too, like, um, you know, because— and just want to preface this really fast, um, because I've been through this a few times, um, you know, and, and I put the work and the effort in to stabilize, uh, the mental, emotional things, you know. So I know, I remember how— I remember how difficult it was for me after my first divorce, when I found out my wife cheated on me. I was away for a school function when I was in college, came back and was told in a Wendy's drive-thru that, you know, I cheated on you. So, so yeah, so it really— yes, I really went through the wringer with that. And that led to a quick relationship with wife number 2. You know, that probably should have never happened to begin with, you know, so, so, so having been through that before, you know, this, this whole separation, where I'm currently at now based, like I said, based off of, you know, everything that's happened for the past 2-3 years. I just, I don't feel like, because I saw one of your one of your posts, one of your videos, and you were talking about taking 12 months after a divorce to work on yourself and you're a broken person and you don't realize it, you know. So, so, you know, that's kind of what kind of triggered me to reach out to you about this. So like I said, having said all that, yes, I have met somebody. Our kids started playing together when I had my kids on my weekends, and we started to get to know each other. You know, so, you know, like I said, she's successful, you know, younger, former college athlete, you know, just incredible, you know, and She's been married before. Yeah, she was married once, as far as I know.

Once before. And how many kiddos?

She's got 3.

And their ages?

Um, I believe, uh, 16, 17 maybe, and, uh, 10 and 7.

16 and 10 and 7. Okay, so either 16, 17-year-old around there, and a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old. And your kids are how old?

12 and 10.

And how long have you known her?

Um, well, I've known her since I moved in, so, uh, since August, you know.

So, um, so is it safe to say that you've been involved in a more than friendship relationship with a woman while married to Mary? I should have picked a different name. Married to Mary. So have you been in an affair for all this time?

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, if you put it that way, sure.

Yeah, well, we, we can, we can somewhat kind of justify it, if you will, or try to spin it by saying Mary has pushed you away for the past couple years and not been happy, and you've been in a state of, you know, disconnection and turmoil. So you, you, you, you paid attention to this new gal who we'll call— what do we call new gal? You pick, you pick the fake name for the new one. What do you want to call her?

I don't know, how about Susanna?

Susanna it is. All right, so Susanna, um, how did you guys meet?

Oh, well, um, we, we actually live in the same, uh, apartment building. So like I said, the kids started interacting, and then, you know, we just kind of started talking from there.

Do the kids know that you two are an item?

No, no, no.

So not, not sleepovers and things like that?

It's— no, no, no, no.

But pardon me for—

and let me back this up a little bit here. I mean, okay, we're, we're not an item, you know what I mean?

Okay, I was just gonna— have you been intimate?

No.

Is this, uh, is this a matter of— is this a mutual thing? You've obviously fallen for this gal. Do you think the feelings are mutual? Have you had those discussions yet?

Yeah, we've talked a little bit about it. Um, obviously, like I said, um, I'm getting ready to, um, file the divorce papers here pretty soon. Um, so that, like, you know, and, and, you know, that's definitely coming. And that, and, and that would have happened regardless of this whole situation.

Yeah, I got you. Okay, but is Susanna under the impression that whether you've overtly said this to her or it's just kind of understood that you are going to divorce, she's well aware of your marital status and everything else. Is she under the impression that she's going to slide in as Mary's replacement?

Um, I, you know, I, I, uh, I don't even wanna— I don't believe so. I mean, like I said, we, we've only been, you know, Um, we've only gone out a couple of times, you know, like I would say maybe— well, we spent more time than that together, but, um, yeah, I mean, you know, she was well aware of my situation from the beginning. I'm a very honest and open person, um, so, you know, she was very well aware of my situation, um, you know, and the impending divorce. And, you know, obviously, you know, we're— I guess I just want to say, you know, we're definitely taking things very slow. You know, she is, you know, obviously has a wall up for sure when it comes to certain things. You know, so do I, you know, because—

Meaning she's keeping you at a distance right now. If I were to sit Susanna down and said, how do you describe your relationship with Christopher? What would she say?

Um, well, I, I, I would think that she would say I'm very thoughtful, very kind.

Um, and, um, you know, what I was getting at was not so much how would you describe Christopher, like, what is your relationship with Christopher here? Like, if somebody said, what's your relationship with— I'm in an office building— with, with the lady who runs the front desk, I would say, oh, it's just casual friendliness. I don't really know her hardly at all. She's just the lady.

Oh, it's not that. No. Okay. No, no. She would say that, you know, we're probably kind of seeing each other.

Um, okay.

Yeah, but we're not— like I said, you know, obviously, um, you know, until my situation changes, um, you know, like I said, you know, it's, it's nothing official. Um, so, and I guess, I guess that's how you would explain it.

And you two have not been physically intimate? I don't mean to pry, I don't mean to be crass here.

Okay, so it's kind of, you know, I mean, we've kind of, you know, we haven't, we haven't been intimate, you know what I mean?

Those have stayed on?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just trying, you know, I'm trying to get—

No, I got you. You know, I'm trying to get a picture. What I was afraid, Christopher, was what I was hoping I wouldn't hear. It doesn't sound like it at all, is that this is a one-way thing. You know, I've talked to some men that are head over heels for a gal, and, you know, after a few questions back and forth, we realize it's kind of a one-way thing, and she may or may not even know the guy exists. But it sounds like you two are— it sounds guarded. It's more than friends for sure, um, gonna take it to the next level. But you obviously have some hesitation in all this, and I think rightfully so. Um, is she a much younger gal? Yeah. How many— what's, what's the age discrepancy we're talking about here?

14 years.

She's a 14-year junior. She has 3 kiddos from a previous, previous relationship. You have 2. Um, the kids have already met each other. You know how I feel about that, you know.

Well, you know, it's— yeah, you know, obviously, um, with proximity with your neighbors, basically.

So it gets a little weird.

And that's, you know, and that's— I mean, that's kind of basically how we, we started interacting was just, you know, so.

All right, let's play pretend here for a moment. You, uh, wake up tomorrow and you go to her place to say hi, or however you normally interact with each other, and she's not there. She took off. She's gone. Her place is emptied out. She didn't tell you, but she's— she moved out. She's gone. What's in store for you then? What do you do?

Um, well, well, I mean, you know, I would attempt to contact her, you know, maybe she's gone, gone.

She's— you have no idea where she went. I'm— she— aliens came and kidnapped her, all right? There's no chance of you ever seeing her again. It's the point I'm trying to say.

Oh, okay.

Susanna's gone.

Well, I mean, you know, I, I continue on with the plan, you know, um, continue on. Well, uh, the plan is, you know, focusing on my kids. You know, you know, I have certain things that I want to accomplish within a certain period of time here. So yeah, so, so that, that, that would still be the focus. I mean, the focus wouldn't change. I mean, would it suck if that happened? Sure. But, you know, like I said, at this point, you know, like I said, you know, we It's, it's, it's, it's not really a situation. I mean, I mean, she's great, and, you know, I would think about her a lot and miss her, I'm sure, you know. But, uh, at the same time, I don't, I don't, I don't believe that, uh, you know, I would be so devastated that, uh, you know, my world would completely fall apart, you know.

Well, where I'm actually going with this is if you would say, uh, shit, that sucked, I really like Susanna, I thought we had something there, Well, let me go back on the market again and see if we can find a Susanna replacement. Do you see yourself doing that? Be realistic. Do you see yourself doing that pretty quickly?

No, no. To be like I said, I wasn't expecting to do this to begin with, you know what I mean?

But Christopher, you have a track record. That's exactly what you've done. You've taken zero time in between, like literally zero time in between these gals. You've overlapped them. You know, one said, I'm cheating on you, and you immediately go and get hitched with another one and You know, I'm not trying to beat you up here, but this is your track record, and you were quite literally still married to Mary and in the middle of a relationship with Susanna. And what I'm trying to get at is, why does Christopher not like being alone, even for a little bit of time?

Um, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I, you know, I, I mean, my longest— I'll put it to you this way. In my 20s, prior to my first marriage, my longest relationship probably lasted 3 months. You know, I was the king of the 2-week relationship. You know what I mean? Meet somebody, have some fun. And you know, and then things kind of die off, trickle off, however you want to put it. You know, well, I'm here, gone, and on to the next one, you know what I mean? So, um, yeah, I, I, I don't want to say that, um, I, I, I don't, I don't think I'm unhappy or uncomfortable being alone, you know.

Uh, like I said, uh, is there a part of, is there a part of you that wonders if you are using these women?

Oh, uh, I, I don't know.

Like, like you— in other words, the, the women really make you feel good. And, uh, yeah, we've all been, we've all been in love. There's nothing better than being in love. There's nothing better than that early new relationship. It's quite literally a high. It's like a drug. And nothing makes you feel as good as that. We're engineered for that, you know, so we can get together and make babies and do all that stuff. That's how we're wired as human beings. So you like that feeling. It makes you feel really great. And you don't want it to stop. And so it could be argued, are you getting with these women and saying, I need you for that high, my drug, and then, yeah, I used you up, on to the next one? Even though, in your defense, uh, one cheated on you and yada yada. Plus, what super overcomplicates all of this is, is the, uh, the bipolar. You know, you always can go back to that and say, well, yeah, but the bipolar thing really colored the past relationships, and because of the bipolar, we did this and this, and I— yada yada. So it makes it difficult, you know, to assess or to try and prescribe anything or give some kind of, you know, all-encompassing statements here when in fact we can always go back and we keep going back to saying, well, yeah, but bipolar. So it makes things quite a bit harder. So, you know, if I'm you, what stops you from going to a Susanna and saying, look, I got a track record here Boom, boom, boom, person after person. Um, the bipolar thing thankfully is under control. Thank God. I'm finally doing well. Things are clicking for me. Um, I'm not necessarily sure that it is fair to you, Susanna, and frankly to your kiddos and everything, to bring you into my world when I'm still— what's the word— you know, trying to get the ground steady under my feet. You know, I'm leaving this relationship with Mary and it was not very good. It was years of oof. And I tried like hell to make it work. And for a variety of reasons, my fault, her fault, whatever, it's not working. So I need to kind of reassess things and take a timeout and figure this shit out. We can stay friendly. Sure. Kids play with each other. Hey, neighbor, yada yada. But I want to cool it with the romantic relationship thing for a bit. Number one, what stops you from going that route? And number two, how do you think she would react to that?

Well, I mean, I— that's the thing. After the first time that we spent time together, we actually ended up talking about that. And, you know, we agreed that maybe the timing wasn't the greatest. Um, and so we decided we weren't going to, um, you know, continue on in that manner, manner, so to speak.

But, uh, you both, you both mutually said, yeah, we probably should cool it. It's for the best. And yeah, but that didn't work out because you still saw each other, still had those feelings. And, you know, a lot of people would say then, if that's the case, then take a real timeout. Don't see each other anymore. You know, and just like make a point of saying boundaries, right? Give it, give it 6 months, a year, whatever it may be. Let's just cool it. No, we're not going out for coffee. No, we're not going out for dinner. We see each other in the playground with the kiddos, cool, but we need to cool it. And if it makes you feel any better, Susanna, you have my word, I'm not going to go out and start dating other women and stuff. I'm just going to take, for once in my life, literally, Christopher, for once in my life, I'm gonna take a timeout from the gals just for a little bit. And just see what life is like on my own. Is that a scary proposition?

Um, well, I'll, uh, okay, um, let me— I'm just trying to process how I want to say what I want to say. Um, I, uh, I, you know, I have a I think everything you're saying, you know, is very logical, you know. Okay, so number one, so that being said, too, at the same time, I kind of feel like I'm a very spiritual, religious person. So, and I firmly, firmly believe that you know, people are, are placed into your life at certain times, um, um, for a reason, you know. So, you know, I, I don't know. I just kind of feel like— I mean, I don't— I mean, I, I don't know. I, I guess I just kind of feel like, you know, You know, I, like I said, I don't know if it's, uh, you know, let me put, let me put words in your mouth.

Um, things happen for a reason. God, the universe, whatever you want to call it, has plopped this individual into your life for a reason. And as, as far as what you're feeling now, and as far as your logic is telling you, I'll be damned, she really— this could be it. Because she's got this going. Like, she's— I'm gonna rattle off 8, 10, 12 positives about her. This is a really good thing. And for me just to turn my, my nose up at her and just say, not ready, sorry, see ya, doesn't, doesn't feel right.

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, kind of like that. Um, I just, um, like I said, I mean, I, I want to reiterate the fact once again that, uh, you know, this is still very early, you know, um, you know, and you know what I mean. So I— it's not like, um, you know, I'm, um, I'm blinded by love, you know what I mean, like, you know, or, or that, that's even, you know, or even that emotion has come into play at this point, you know. Um, it's just like I said, I, you know, I, I've, I've met this incredible person, uh, whether it be through circumstance or through the universe or God Um, you know, and I guess my— that the reason why I reached out is, you know, because the, the— like I said, you know, um, there are certain things that I've tried to accomplish and work on, um, but also at the same time, like, I, you know, I just kind of, you know, I don't know, I just kind of feel like, you know, um, you know, I, I don't know, I just wanted to, you know I just wanted to speak with someone who has the experience and the logic, you know, and just kind of find out, gosh, you know, am I thinking off here? Or, you know, but I don't know, I just kind of feel like, hey, you know, here's this incredible person, like, yeah, why completely ignore that connection? No, I mean, I'm not talking about running down to the courthouse tomorrow.

You know what I mean? But, but Christopher, let's, let's be honest. You do have a track record— track record, I can't speak today— of exactly that.

Oh, well, I will say this, that like I said, the, the, the only time I, I really felt like I rushed into that situation was after the first wife, after being cheated on, the rebound of the—

yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you know, I, you know, and who knows, maybe the, the mental illness and the bipolar had something to do with it. Well, I'm sure, I'm sure there was some factors in there, you know, but ultimately we're all responsible for our own decisions and actions. So, but yeah, I mean, you know, I saw the thing and I thought, you know, I wonder what Ralph would think.

So, you know, my knee-jerk thought is, oh boy, he's doing it again. Um, but I am not belittling you in any way. Um, to— I mean, you are falling for a gal, let's be honest. That's what we're saying here. I met somebody and I'm falling for her, and, uh, I think a lot about her and she ticks a lot of boxes. What complicates this thing further, Christopher, is that you have a track record of not so good relationships, so it makes you wonder if your picker is off, so to speak. And that's not a bad thing for— I'm not saying she's a bad person, but part of your broken picker may not necessarily be, um, I pick bad people, but it may be I jump too quickly into things. I too quickly try to morph something into more than what it is. I try to commit quickly. I try to see things that may not necessarily be there, um, all because— why? Because I fell for the person and I'm head over heels. I mean, dude, welcome to the club. I mean, you're one of the bazillions of people that experience this on a daily basis, the falling in love thing. Um, it's a universal thing, and like I say, Mother Nature put it in us for a reason. But we have to counterbalance that with a logical, 30,000-foot looking down upon yourself kind of viewpoint of all this. Which is, I see what's going on here. It's natural. It's a beautiful thing. Let's, let's be honest. It makes me feel amazing. I met a great person. She's awesome. But given boom, boom, boom track record, uh, I'm currently still married. Can't emphasize that enough. Haven't even gone through the divorce yet. Haven't even—

haven't even separated, Ralph. Come on now.

Okay, so have you filed? Have you filed yet for divorce?

Like I said, I, you know, honestly, um, if, if some other, um, circumstances financially were different at this time, that probably would have already happened.

So, okay, so the logistics of all of this, it doesn't look good on paper. I mean, the more you try to find yourself, you know, kind of trying to explain something to some people, like if you sat a bunch of dudes around on a table and like, let me tell you about my new gal, And they were like, dude, are you even divorced yet? Yeah, separated. It's been years of shit. Yeah, yeah. The more you try to explain and what about this gal again? Yeah. And she has how many kids? And she's been married before. And the fact that you have to kind of explain this and, you know, it kind of— it's not the most logical thing in the world shows you that at the very least, Christopher, maybe just pump the brakes a little bit.

Yeah.

Is there— to romanticize it. For you. If it's meant to be, it will survive a pumping of the brakes. Okay. In fact, Christopher, if she has a good head on her shoulders, she will probably be the one to say, I'm glad to hear you say that. That actually instills a little bit more respect for you to hear you say that, Christopher, to me, to hear you say to a gal, a hot, smart gal who's 14 years your junior, hey, Maybe we need to cool a little bit on this because let me get the divorce thing out of the way. Let me do this and that. Love you to death. You're a great person, everything else. But I just feel like maybe for once in my life I need to cool it a bit. Now, if her reaction to that is, "Fuck you, get out of my life. I hate you. You're just like every other man," then you're like, okay, bullet dodged. If her reaction is, "I understand." I'm here for you if you ever want to talk, coffee, whatever, yada yada. But I get it completely. I understand. I'll be here for you. You know, if you ever need me, I'm here for you. But whenever you're ready, let me know. Okay, cool. To me, sounds logical, if not even a little romantic, a little sweet. I like the sound of that. And but here's the question. Okay, Ralph, let's say we both agree to that. Let's take a year off. From any kind of romantic anything. What do you do during that year is the question. Do you have, do you have enough to fill your time? Do you have a mission in life as a single man to devote to? We call it your craft, your career, your friends, hobbies. Do you have much in the way of male friends that you can lean on, a group of men that you can talk to for these kind of things? Yeah. Um, if— okay, cool. Do you have men that, that you talk to one-on-one in life about this kind of stuff? And if so, what do they think of the Susanna and all that situation?

Um, well, they're, they're kind of along the lines of, you know, uh, what you've been saying.

So they're worried about you. They love you as a friend, and they see Christopher kind of going down the road of, oh shit, here we go again, he's gonna fall head over heels, he's gonna get hitched again, and the whole nine. And you're like, nah dudes, this is different. And they're all like, kind of, we've seen this before. Yeah, it's like— and they're probably all saying the same thing, like any kind of friend would put an arm around you and say, what's the rush, buddy? Like, you know, I didn't ask your age.

Oh, I just turned, um, I just turned, uh, uh, do I have to give you my age?

Are you, are you over 50?

No.

Okay, good. All right, so in your 40s?

Yeah.

So how young of a gal is this then, Susanna?

Um, in her mid-30s.

Okay, well, all right, young gal but not too young. Yeah, not young enough to raise eyebrows, people going, what the hell's going on here? So yeah, yeah, a mature woman but younger. Okay, gotcha. And you're in your, let's say, mid-late 40s. Um, so, uh, and the kids is, is an eyebrow raiser. Um, but she's a career woman, you said, right? Yeah, she can take care of herself. She doesn't need Christopher's money to take care of her and the kiddos and stuff. So I mean, what is the harm in saying, let's cool it with the romance for a bit? What's the harm in saying, let me concentrate on fill in the blank in the, in the meantime? What's the harm in saying, for once, let me try a different route in my life? Because your life has been relationships with women for how many years now?

Oh, well, um, let's see. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's been a, it's been a pretty major factor for, you know, uh, since the first marriage. Yeah.

So how many years are we talking?

Um, oh, well, I mean, oh, well, I mean, it, it's been at least, um, you know, a good decade and a half.

So for the past decade plus, um, you have been Christopher 1.0, which is hitched guy in some way, whether it's married, going through the divorce, on to the next girlfriend, engaged. Why not try Christopher 2.0, which is single dude who's not looking at all? Yeah, he's just concentrating on other stuff. If that— and if the, the concept of that kind of fills you with dread and like, oh God, dude, I don't know what to do with myself, or probably more along the lines with your personality, one of, um, I would miss that high of being in a relationship, that early relationship high, and that falling in love and being in love. I would miss that greatly. I don't know what life would be like without that. Um, yeah, maybe it's time for some real introspective moments of, well, maybe I need to talk to maybe, maybe a professional about this, of maybe there's a codependent streak in me that needs that. Maybe there's an addictive element to that. There's something to the whole, um, you know, there's men out there that are sex addicts. That's a real thing by my estimation, which is, uh You know, I basically— they're addicted to that connection, validation, that dopamine hit that only sex can provide. And these are men that— people throw that term around flippantly, sex addiction, but these are men that are like, I could do it 10 times a day, 10 different women. It gets really crazy like that.

Yeah, that's not me.

And, uh, that ain't you, but you have a super, super minor league version of maybe that being in love thing is something that you've grown accustomed to and wired to need— maybe that's too strong of a word— to really, really super desire. And if you don't have it, things get a little bit squirrely for you. If so, not very good. Because if Susanna, like I say, you go and she's just gone one day, which stranger things have happened, people have been dumped before, people have like, sorry, I'm going to this guy over here, or I'm moving out of the country, some kind of drama happened that you're not aware of. Um, I have a feeling that you'd be looking for Susanna 2.0 pretty quick. And if so, not very, not very good, dude. You need to figure out why it is that, uh, you can't live on your own.

But that's the, that's the thing though, Ralph. Um, you know, like I said, I was never even expecting any of this, you know.

Oh, I got you, I got you.

I'm not, I'm not, uh, I'm not going, you know, I, I don't spend my free time in the bar I'm, you know, I'm not out actively doing any of those things, and I wasn't prior to, you know, so, um, that's not a focus for me right now, you know what I mean? So, um, yeah, like I said, I mean, if, if, uh, you know, that were to happen and, you know, poof, disappear, you know, um, I, I'm just gonna stay focused on, on what I'm trying to accomplish here. Uh, the things I need to get done and address and, you know, and just continue to, you know, move forward and, you know, try to be the best dad that I can to my kids, you know.

So does she— would she consider that you two are in a relationship?

No, no, I don't consider that either. So, you know what I mean?

Interesting. Yeah, what I'm trying to think how she would describe relationship. That is technically the right term. I'm in a relationship with anybody— the doorman downstairs, we're in a relationship, you know, two people interacting with each other. With him, it'd be extremely casual. I don't even know the guy's name. But you have a relationship with her which is more than friends. So I'm trying to say— I'm trying to think— I'm trying to flip it and put myself in her situation. If she's talking to somebody close family-wise and they would say, are you seeing anybody? Susanna? And she's like, well, no, not really, but there is a guy that we do hang out quite a bit and talk, and he lives in my apartment building. He's a really sweet guy. I've thought about maybe, you know, maybe taking it further with him. I don't know. And they'd be like, oh, tell me about him. Well, he's technically married. Like, oh shit, he's— but he is separated. And, um, oh, has he been married before? Yeah, a few times. Oh, okay. And and he's quite a bit older, you know, 14 years. Oh wow, okay. And you know, they'd probably be like, Susanna, what's the, what's the rush here? No, no rush. I don't, you know, I don't know, he's just— we haven't decided. They would probably say like, Susanna, pump the brakes too. Um, is she fresh out of her previous relationship?

No.

Okay, so it's been years since—

okay, yeah, it's been at least— yeah, it's been at least a year or two.

So my advice to you would be to explore further the idea of— and you know, it should be almost an exciting thing. Single Christopher, turn the page, chapter 2 of this life. Christopher 2.0, let's, let's see what we can do. This is exciting, this is fun, you know. And I don't want to frame a relationship with a gal as a life destroyer or something that can suppress you and your growth as an individual. But for some people, men and women both, it does act that way. It's like as soon as they get into a relationship with somebody, they forego everything else. Sometimes they can get as extreme as forgoing relationships with their own children. Like they set aside the kiddo because they got the new girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever. Oof, bad. Even the career suffers. I could go to this some course across the country, but I would take away time from them. Ah, screw it, I'll just— I'll do that some other time. Next thing you know, they're just setting everything aside, and then that relationship fizzles, and they're like, yeah, shit, that wasn't good. Now I've got a poor relationship with my friends, with my kids, with my work, and oof, because they just put so much energy into that, and it's not healthy. So while you may make the case of, now that's not necessarily me, I can still do other things, Be curious to see how, how much you do flourish, if at all, if you set that aside, really set it aside. And I don't mean just not screwing around, I mean really like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna concentrate on myself for once. Yeah, see what happens. Yeah, be honest with me, how does that make you feel to think about that?

Oh, I mean, I feel fine, you know. I mean, like I said, that, that, um, you know You know, the— yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, like I said, that, that, that's been the plan, um, the whole time, you know, um, just focus on, you know, being the best, uh, father that I could be.

And, uh, now here's the thing, to say that you were— that was the plan all along is one thing, but Christopher, you will be tempted, presented with lovely people women from now until the day you die. I mean, you're gonna be— you're gonna go to the grocery store and meet some gal that's gonna be like, "Ooh, nice." You're gonna go to some party and meet some friend of a friend. You're gonna go to some work function and meet somebody. You're gonna meet all these people, but it takes a certain type of person to say, "I recognize I would bang the snot out of that one. I would sure like to take that one out for dinner. I wish it— but not right now. Now it's not a good time, and let me just Let me just cool it with that for a bit. Yeah, that's— I think that's the mechanism you need to work on is the whole thing. It's just cool. And I know you didn't find it, but life is going to throw that shit at you. And if you have a certain type of personality and charisma, which apparently you have, because Christopher, there's plenty of people out there who are like, I would love to have somebody, and they never have those opportunities drop in their lap, like ever, because they're lacking that certain something that keeps all those people away. And but you don't have that. You have a mechanism where they just come to you and you're like, I wasn't expecting this. And look at this, a 14-year-old, my junior, pretty smart woman just dropped in my lap. And there's, there's a lot of them out there is what I'm trying to say. So you need to have the mechanism to go, I recognize it. Cool. Hey, nice knowing you. You know, see you around. And that's it. That's tough for a lot of people, especially when you need that connection. I don't know if you need it or not, but I don't think you've tested yourself enough to see if you in fact do not need it or not. You know what I'm trying to say?

Yeah. So I think, you know, I know what you mean.

Yeah. So that's what I think. Yeah. Just tell Susanna, we both know maybe this is a little weird. I know we have— we're not a full-fledged boyfriend-girlfriend or anything like that yet, but it's going in that direction. So maybe we should just pump the brakes for a bit. See what she says. I don't know.

Okay.

All right, brother.

All right.

Well, thank you for— you are my first official video chat. Oh, the Dear DSO thing. Oh wow, nice. It's the first one. I've always done it. It is. It's still going right now, so— but thanks. So hey, and check out our, uh, and I'll say this to you into the people watching this, check out the Brotherhood, which is our, our group, our community for men only. So you go to helpformen.com, helpformen.com, and check it out. The HFM Brotherhood is what we call it, and we get together for discussion forums where we talk about this kind of stuff. We get together in live Zoom meetings multiple times a week, and now we're up to like 6 meetings a week or something like that where we talk about this kind of stuff with myself and other guys on the team, get together in person, all kinds of cool stuff. So check it out. Help4men.com and the HFM Brotherhood. We would love to have you. I think you'd be a good fit. Well, thank you. And we have guys that have, you know, dealt with the borderline thing for sure. We have a lot of guys, ADHD, autism spectrum, and everything in between. So a lot of guys out there struggling, trying to make it work. And something we've learned over the years is that don't be afraid to go, help, just need a little help here. That's something a lot of guys have a lot of trouble with. Yeah. And But, uh, the fact that you've reached out to me and we arranged this— it's not an easy thing to get on schedule and things— shows me that you're not averse to saying, eh, a little help here. Yeah, I'd like to talk, get a little advice. That's, that's huge. That's huge. So kudos to you for that.

No, thank you. All right, brother, I appreciate it.