MGTOW - "Men Going Their Own Way"

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. Hello everyone, DSO here from dadstartingover.com, and I wanted to talk about a popular topic today, one that I've mentioned a few times on other people's podcasts, on my own podcast, and articles and so forth. And I go on and on about it a little bit because it's such an interesting topic, and it's one that was kind of shoved down my throat, so to speak. Um, in the form of comments on videos that I've created on YouTube, uh, emails that I receive, reviews of books, etc., etc. And that is the concept of something called MGTOW. Funny sounding name, but it's basically the, um, the spelling— or it's an acronym, M-G-T-O-W, which stands for Men Going Their Own Way. What the hell are we talking about? It's basically a loosely organized group of men on the internet, and you can find them in a variety of different forums online, on Reddit, and like I mentioned, in the comment section of your favorite YouTube video when it talks about men and relationships and so forth. Basically, these are men that through a variety of different avenues have all come to the same conclusion. Relationships, more specifically marriage or long-term monogamous relationships, are not worth it. And what is it? When we talk about it, they're not worth what? They're not worth the work, the effort, the sacrifice, the resources, all those things that we as men, let's be honest, have to give in a relationship. The, the In order to put in work for anything in life, the only reason to put in the work is so that you get a subsequent reward or return. The only reason you would go to the office 50, 60 hours a week is because you get a nice paycheck. As soon as the boss comes to you and says, by the way, we're not paying you anymore, you don't show up to the office. Well, in the mind of men who subscribe to the MGTOW philosophy, That's exactly what happened, is that they, by virtue of their own life experience, or by virtue of the, quote, wisdom of others, just by looking and taking in all there is to see in the popular culture and in their friends' relationships, their mom and dad's relationship, they look at all this and they take it all in and they say, dude, no way, I'm sorry, I'm out. And to that I say, Dude, I get it. I— up to this point in me just describing MGTOW or trying to explain the philosophy, you will never hear me say, "Haha, dummies, you're all wrong," because you're not. You're exactly right. It takes work, and sometimes that work results in a whole hell of a lot of nothing, or worse, because of the work you put into it and the sacrifices you make and the resources you provide, in the end, it is a, um, a negative result. You were better off by not— arguably, you were better off by not entering into that relationship and experience all the pain, suffering, and the loss of money, loss of time, loss of your children, etc., versus had you just opted out of the relationship to begin with. So what's the net benefit here? To many men's minds, Nothing. Well, how did some of these men get to this point of view? Well, there's one group who, um, did try a relationship. They fell deeply in love with somebody to the point of marriage or some type of long-term commitment, had kids, and everything blew up in their face. Usually for these men, when you hear their stories, the reason they came to this MGTOW philosophy and way of life is probably because they were cheated on. And wife said, I'll be leaving now. And in a lot of these men's minds, right or wrong— I happen to think they're right— they, they think that, well, because of that, you know, one of us raises our hand and said, I'd like to go over here to Plan B. Well, in the men's mind, well, fine, go ahead, I'll start over fresh without you. But what they don't think Rather, what they do think is that, well, then that kind of puts me in a good position because I, as the man, I, as the man in that position, I was not the one to call it quits. I was not the one to cheat. Therefore, I'll come out pretty good in the end in this divorce. And they find that no, actually, the courts, the law, whatever you want to call it, don't really give a rat's ass about the who's at fault here in this breakup. Or why it happened. In fact, they have a specific word for this. It's called no-fault divorce. The court's basically throwing up their hands saying, we really don't give a shit what caused this divorce. All we care about is the wellbeing of those children over there. And as far as we're concerned, this is what a lot of courts say, not all of them, but a lot of them say, we recognize that probably the primary homestead should be with mother. And a lot of these courts will say, we have found over the years that just tends to be the best. And a lot of these men go, excuse me, my ex-wife is, soon-to-be ex-wife is an adulterer, probably has all kinds of addictions, and she's been sneaking around, and yet lying to the court and everything else. And then in a lot of these times, the courts come back and say, we really don't care. As far as we're concerned, you get the kids every other weekend and every Wednesday. That's worst case scenario. And some of these men have gone through this and they say, you know, I get it, society. Thank you very much. The signal received loud and clear. Relationships, as far as men are concerned, from my perspective, make zero sense. I'm out. So there's one category. The other category are men that, you know, I really wanted to get in a relationship. I really wanted a girlfriend. Maybe I had a casual something as a teenager, but she ended up cheating on me with some other guy. Or as a young kid, I tried out the girlfriend thing and I kept getting dumped or whatever, and it never formulated into a full-blown relationship that lasted years and years and eventually engagement and marriage and everything else. I never got to that point. I was never able to successfully navigate to that. And everything I saw along the way of trying to navigate to that showed me that Man, this whole process just sucks. You'll hear a lot of these men say, women just like assholes, that's all they want. Women love abusive men. I'm not that, I'm way too nice. Women walk all over me. Um, I can— I keep getting taken advantage of. I keep getting thrown in the friend zone, so to speak. And, um, as far as I'm concerned, the world of a good marriage, a good romantic relationship, just completely eludes me. And I've come to the point of realizing, I don't think I want that after all. I'm out. All right, so those are your two main groups. And these guys get together on the internet and they compare notes. Basically, it's, you know, guys from around the world going, uh, the relationship thing sucks. It sure does. All these other people are stupid for being in it. Yes, they are. Um, we should try to evangelize and proselytize to the world about You're all being sold a lie on this relationship thing, and try to save as many men as we can. High five, let's go to it. And that's why you see them in your YouTube comments, your forums, your book reviews, whatever it may be. Well, that's not the complete story, is it? Let's be honest here. I talk to a lot of these men. Through my one-on-one coaching. And I've been doing this for years now. And I recognize the coaching thing. I'll be the first to tell people, and I'll say it here again, I'm not a licensed therapist by any shape or form, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not a counselor. I'm not a marriage therapist. I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not a psychologist. I'm a guy who's been there, done that. And have talked to a lot of men and hung my shingle, so to speak, to say, if you want to speak to me and take time to talk to me and learn from me and my experience, it's going to cost you money. And I've been doing that for years and it's been going really well. Well, but invariably, part of what I do in the coaching is kind of, kind of tiptoes towards the therapist speak. And I've been to therapy and I know, and by the way, I don't think a whole hell of a lot of it, but that's for another story. I will talk to these men, and a lot of the men start off right away with tales of woe, which is, let me tell you about the acute pain that I am feeling at this moment. It's severe, and I feel lost, and I'm scared, and I'm angry, and this is what happened to me. And they will just paint this horror story of their relationship with their, um, soon-to-be or their ex-wife at that point. And, um, you know, I don't want to stop all men and say, yeah, I'll just cut you off there because I've heard it all before. I've— because, guys, I have. I've heard it all before. The stories start to all bleed together, um, in their awfulness. Some stick out more than others. But, uh, in general though, I can stop all the men and say, I hear you, brother. That's terrible what happened to you. I went through the same thing. I get it. But, um, let's, let's take the difficult route here because it's the best route. And the difficult route is one of saying timeout and let's rewind the hands of time and let's figure out what in the hell got you to this position. And we're going to rewind the hands of time probably further back than what you think. We're going to go back to dear old mom and dad because that's where it all begins. And I'm telling you guys, 99% of the time, these men, broken homes. Dad ran out. No relationship with father, went through a string of terrible abusive stepfathers. Mom cheated on dad. Hell, I did a podcast interview with a guy not too long ago. His name, we went by a fake name of Hank. You may remember we laughed at his fake name of choice. And he had a relationship that they had a kid, went downhill. Now he's in relationship number 2. Had a kid, it's gone downhill, and he's already in bed with another woman, and they haven't even divorced yet with wife number 2. And you'll hear my, um, my chat with him. And I said, hey, let's talk about what happened to you as a kid, that's important. And he said, um, the one thing that stuck out of me from his story was that mom cheated on dad. And she didn't just cheat on dad, you know, you know, sneaking around in secret, no one had any idea. Oh no, she took her kid with her during her affair and said, here, go play with this guy's kids while I go in the bedroom and, and get it on with the stranger. Uh, that's fucked up. And that's what I told him in the, um, in the, in the podcast episode. I said, dude, that's fucked up. You don't come out of a situation like that and all of your relationships going forward are just peachy keen. Oh no, that's the kind of shit that leaves an imprint on you for life unless you deal with it. And I think a lot of you guys out there are jumping into the deep end of the pool, the relationship pool. You don't have any life preserver on, you've never taken a swimming lesson, and you just jump right on in kicking and screaming and hoping for the best. And some of you tread water and stay afloat for years. But eventually you drown because simply your baggage is just way too much, your emotional baggage. So much so that unbeknownst to you, you are attracting some pretty toxic, also broken human beings. Broken finds broken. It's just the way it is. It's the way it always has been. Um, your mom and dad broke up and relationship exploded and It was awful and dramatic. Well, I have a feeling that one of their mom and dads did the same. And we can go back generation after generation and it just keeps going. Because no one took the time to say, "Eh, timeout. Maybe this relationship thing ain't for me right now. Maybe I need to work on some stuff first. Need to work on myself, need to find myself. Let me rewire my brain so I don't keep creating these same chaotic, uh, relationship stories that have gone on for 3 or 4 generations before me. How about I stop it right here? Let's do this. Let's be honest, guys. How many guys do that? Next to none. If you do that, congratulations. I wish you were here in front of me. I'd give you the biggest hug and say thank you, because nobody does that. Everybody should do that, but nobody does that. And we could go on and on about why exactly nobody does that. The, the urge to pair bond with another human being is pretty damn strong. And what's even stronger than that is the urge to procreate and have a baby, especially from the wife's point of view, um, the woman's point of view rather. How many women do we know who are in their 20s and have that baby fever like crazy, and but they come from broken homes? Dad was nowhere to be found, mom cheated, mom was on drugs, whatever it may be. The woman herself in question, you know, went through 30-some-odd guys before she was the age of 18. All kinds of awfulness that leads to not so good stuff, or as I like to call them, red flags in a relationship. Well, how many of those women do we know say, "Well, maybe I should put off the whole baby-making thing and time out on stuff and work on myself before I bring another human being into this world." Well, bring another human being into my world in the form of a romantic relationship and create another human being in the form of a baby. Maybe I should put off that stuff for a while while I work on me. How many people do that? How many women do that? Very few. The urge to procreate supersedes all of that. So here we have a guy who was very broken. He wants nothing more to be in a loving relationship, finds a woman that, uh, just pushes his buttons like no one else ever has, combined with the young woman who's fertile and ready to go and ready to procreate. And as I said, she probably comes from a very toxic background herself. And voilà, there you go. Before anyone, you know, kind of dismisses this, "That's not my story, dude, you don't get it," take a good long look. It always surprises me, and G.S. Youngblood and I talked about this, the author, on the podcast where he said he himself went to a therapist to talk about his past, and he just glossed over some stuff in his childhood that the therapist had to say, Hey, time out, dude. Well, let's back up a little bit. What'd you just say? Because that was pretty effed up. I do that all the time when I talk to guys, um, where I say, dude, let me just stop you right there. That's, that's a lot for any human being to digest, let alone a little kid. And I've had men that really, they never had that time to really sit and digest and really soak in the awfulness of what happened as a kid and really kind of figure and try to figure out how it, how it has impacted them in life and their current relationships. And that's, for some of them, it's the first time anyone's ever said that. Like, it's not your fault, dude. That was some really horrible shit you went through, and it's having an effect on where you're at right now. And some of these men, it's such a mind-f for them that they break down in tears right when we're talking. And I get it, dude. I've been there, done that, and have those, have those thoughts where you sit and really Think it through and remember all those little things. Sometimes it's in the form of a little flashback. You'll, you know, there's the olfactory sense system of your sense of your taste and smell that tends to trigger a lot of things. And a lot of people be, you know, I'm out having pizza with my family and all of a sudden I remember the time that my mom threw the pizza at my head and away we go with all kinds of memories. Oh, so that's why I fly off the handle and I have an anger problem. Et cetera, et cetera. You get the idea. So where am I going with all this? So for those men that I have spoken to that fall under the category of the MGTOW, a couple different ways of looking at this. One is, well, guys, you have— a lot of you are very broken, and you created very broken relationships with this marriage, and no wonder, and no wonder you're turned off by it. But the end result is one where you say, "I'm out." And I'm one to say, you're probably right in determining that that's the correct course of action. Because right now it may very well be the very correct course of action for you. Take a timeout. Forget women for a while. They ain't going anywhere. And if you don't jump back into another one-on-one monogamous relationship from now until the day you die, that's fine. For a lot of people, that sounds very depressing, but for you and your flavor of baggage, if you don't address it, that may very well be the most healthy course of action for you and frankly for society in general. As horrible as that sounds, that's something that a lot of MGTOW-type guys won't hear. They'll hear a lot of shame from people saying, aha, what a bunch of losers. Um, but I think, uh, that may very well be a good healthy course of action for you. Now, where this MGTOW thing goes wrong, by my estimation— I'm making air quotes here— wrong. Um, I, I think of it in terms of, uh, kind of a little bit of an analogy or a metaphor, what the proper term here is. But, uh, I, I speak a lot in these little make-believe stories to help illustrate what— where my mind's going. That's just how I function. So apologies, apologies if you've heard me go on about this kind of thing and it annoys the hell out of you. That's just how my brain works. But here's how I look at the thing. Let's say we got a guy who, um, has been invited to a party and he goes to the party. He's got high hopes for the party, right? He's excited. There's some people he knows that are going to be there. He hasn't been to one of these parties in forever, if ever. Um, he went out and bought a nice $50 bottle of wine. And a nice little, I don't know, some kind of gourmet dish that he threw together. You know, he looked online and found some recipe. So he's very excited, very proud of the fact that he's really kind of gone over the top and brought this as a gift, thank you for the party. He goes there and he shows up and they invite him in and he sees people he knows. Hey Sally, hey John, how you doing? Puts the coat down, goes to the kitchen to put his food up there and he sees, what the hell, man? All these people brought like these store-bought Walmart party trays. There's Boone's Farm wine, Miller Lite. And here he is, you know, spent hours working on some kind of dish, some kind of fancy quiche or something that he made, and he went on, spent $50 on a bottle of wine, and right away he's turned off. Ugh, these people just aren't putting in the effort like I did. No one seems to care about this kind of stuff. Oh well. Then he goes out and starts chatting with some people, and they're having some drinks and talking, and first conversation is just complete nonsense. The guy he's talking to, there's just nothing there. They're just talking about the weather, sports, and, uh, quickly they're just kind of looking around uncomfortably, awkward silence. And finally the other guy, you know, mercifully says, "All right, well, I gotta go to the restroom. I'll see you." And he's like, "All right, good." And he goes to the next person. He's chatting up some gal that's cute, but She's dumber than dumb. There's just nothing going on there. And she can't stop giggling, and it's annoying the hell out of him. So he goes on to the next person. He's doing this, you know, for hours, just talking from person to person. And there's not a single solitary person that he would say, "Man, what a cool person. What an interesting conversation." It just sucked. And then the music sucks. It's like disco all night. And the guy can't stand disco. He's like, "Ah, God, can they play something else?" So the food sucks, the drinks suck, He's the only one that seemed to put any effort into it. His music sucks. Everything about it's just terrible. And he's looking around, and he's like, "Man, these people put no effort into this party whatsoever. Shitty food and awful conversation, shitty music, and that's it?" And he, you know, he takes a fork to his wine glass, and ting, ting, ting, ting, says, "Attention, everyone. Attention." Ting, ting. They turn the music down and he gives a big speech in front of everybody about, "This party sucks. It's terrible and let me tell you why." And he goes on about the food and the music, the people, da da da da da. And the party host comes over and kind of motions him away from everybody and, you know, "Are you all right?" He's like, "Yeah, your party sucks." He's like, "Well, I appreciate you coming, but I'm gonna have to ask you to leave." He motions him to the door, hands him his coat and says, "Thank you so much for coming." Uh, do you want to take your wine with you? And the guy's like, no, keep the wine, keep the food. He's like, all right, well, I appreciate it, thanks so much, and shuts the door. And everybody just kind of looks around like, what the hell is that about? And before they can start the music up again, ding ding ding ding ding on the door. Ding dong ding dong ding ding ding. The host goes to the front door. Yes? And it's the guy again, who's all pissed off, and he says, and another thing, let me tell you about your Your towels in the bathroom suck. They're cheap and you bought them at Walmart. I saw them at Walmart the other day and you can't even put out good towels. And the party host just sits there and goes, is that it? Really? The guy goes, yeah. Okay, thanks, appreciate it. Shuts the door in his face, turns back around to the crowd and says, Jesus, I don't know what that was all about. 10 minutes later goes, you know, goes by and then ding ding ding ding dong ding on the door again. He's like, all right guys, hold on a second. Opens the door, goes, what, what is it? And the guy's there bitching again, and another thing, and he starts going off about something else. Finally, the, the party host says, um, you know what, dude, don't come back here again. Quit knocking on the door, quit ringing the doorbell. We're trying to have a good time over here. We don't appreciate you coming around saying how much my party sucks. I like my party. "these people like my party, so, you know, kindly fuck off. Go do your own party if you want." And shuts the door in the guy's face. Guys, a lot of you MGTOW types, you're that dude at the party, all right? You may very well have a case to be made that the food sucks and the wine sucks and the conversation sucks and so forth. Here's the solution, guys. Go make your own damn party. Show those people on that party, this is how you do it. All right? That marriage thing you guys are doing over there? Mm-mm. Here's the way, and let me show you why. You know, in this scenario, the healthy thing to do is just to go up to, you know, the scenario of the party sucks and you really can't stand to be there anymore. Is that you just calmly go up to the party host and say, "You know, I gotta cut out of here, and I appreciate you inviting me. You guys have fun, and I'll be seeing you around." And then you leave quietly. And then you, in the back of your head, you say, "Watch this, guys. I'm gonna show you how to really do a party." And then you plan your own party and invite all those people, and you say, "This is how we do it.", and you have kick-ass food, kick-ass music, you know, party games, invite over some strippers, I don't know, whatever it is that makes a good party, and you do that. That's how you, number one, that's just a much more mentally healthy approach, and number two, that's kind of how you win the crowd over. If your goal, Mr. MGTOW guys, is in fact to show the rest of us married types, of which I'm one of them. Let's just get that straight. I'm a married dude, second time around, 4 kiddos total. Um, if your goal is to show myself and guys like myself, you've made huge mistake, let us show you the way, you're much— you catch more flies with honey, so to speak. Guys, let me show you what's positive about this. Um, let me illustrate all this with a true story. I mentioned this on somebody else's podcast before, but, uh, when I was a kid in my teens, my mom, uh, was a bookkeeper for a guy by the name of Bob, business owner in town, small town. And Bob, uh, one day mentions to my mom that he has some odd jobs that need to be done around his place. He lived out in the country, and would I be interested in doing that? So he lived like a 10-minute bike ride from our house out in the country. So, uh, one day I jumped on my bike and went out to, uh, see old Bob at his house. And Bob had an awesome place out in the country with a lake. It was, um, it wasn't necessarily like a cabin, but it was a— it was very woodsy. The house had a lot of glass, very open to the environment around. You could— everyone could see inside the home. I thought it was very unique in that way. Big open floor plan, huge ceilings. He took me inside and showed me around, and I was just in awe of it. I was just like, "This house is awesome." And I remember him, Bob, had a very— Bob could have been in radio. He had a really good voice for it. He talked like this, and he said, "Yeah, it's a bachelor pad." And then I realized that, "Oh, yeah, there's no Mrs. Bob here." You know, he's probably, at the time, he's probably in his 70s. And really kind of cool older dude. And had no woman around, it was just him. He had like probably multiple acres, like his place was like a compound. He even had a name for it, that his little, his house, his compound, like a big barn. He had all kinds of like ATV vehicles he rode around in and a big lake with a boat and it was awesome. I loved it there. I thought it was great. And then I later got the full story from my mom about Bob. Bob, never been married, no kids, 2 girlfriends. Bob had a girlfriend there in Indiana, and then like a lot of people, when it got cold, Bob said adiós to Indiana and took off, went down to Florida where he had a condo, and he had another girlfriend waiting on him. So he had a summertime and a wintertime girlfriends, 2 different women, and they knew about each other. They weren't fans of each other, but they knew about each other, and it was cool, and everybody was happy. And that was Bob, and you never knew it by looking at the guy. You kind of had to dig to find that information. What Bob didn't do— Bob never pulled me aside and said, you listen to me, young man, don't you ever get married, that's a bunch of horseshit. No, never said anything of the nature. Bob was a bachelor, like he said, by his own admission. Um, where you MGTOW types, excuse me, are going off the script here a little bit, there is a, there's a phrase You may have heard of popular culture, but it comes from Shakespeare. It says, "Doth protest too much." What does that mean? You're going on and on about the anti-marriage, anti-relationship stuff too much. You're showing your hand, guys. You're kind of projecting, if we will. It doesn't take much to see behind the curtain of what's really going on here. Because if you truly were a bachelor type of dude, and you were truly wired to, "I'm a single guy and that's the way I am and that's cool," then we wouldn't hear from you. We'd only hear from you when we go to your house for poker night. And then we realize, we go, "Oh yeah, he doesn't have a wife or kids or whatever, cool." But instead, you spend a great deal of your time on the internet and otherwise preaching, evangelizing, as I said, to the world. Of why your marriage world sucks and why it's bad news for men, et cetera, et cetera. You're protesting a little bit too much. And the reason I think you're doing so is because from a very young age, well, I think there's two components here. One is a social component where we've been taught a certain way. And the other one is kind of a more of a nature component, which we are all as human beings, as mammals, primates, we're very highly intelligent primates, we are engineered to pair bond. And you, me, woman, or the case could be made by some experts that no, it's actually supposed to be you and multiple women, a tribe, so to speak. But regardless if it's one-on-one or one-on-three or three-on-three, whatever it is, it's we all are in this together and we want to form close intimate relationships with others, right? And I think for a lot of you guys, you want nothing more than that. But for whatever reason, your fault, not your fault, whatever it may be, life just gave you the big old middle finger. And you saw behind the curtain, so to speak, and you said, yeah, this isn't what it was supposed to be. And I was— I'm deeply hurt by what I see here, and I don't like it. And I'm scared and I'm angry and I'm sad and I'm not going to shut up until the rest of the world understands my pain. And I get it, I do. But it's, um, I think what a lot of you guys— what, what doubles down on the pain, so to speak, is society's reaction as a whole. Oh my goodness, look at all these men that are turning their backs on relationships. You would think the reaction as a society may be Oh my God, we have to do what all we can to bring these men back in the fold because we're losing some good men here and we need men, we need men and families, etc., etc. But the reaction is basically crickets, nothing. And that's doubly sad for men. So you have the first tier of sadness, if you will, of negativity, of we're seeing the type of relationships we're able to cultivate, the relationships of those around us, and we don't like it, so we're out. What do you think about that, society? And society just says, that's fine, that's cool. And, um, that hurts. It doubly hurts because a lot of men just want to be heard, and they want people to feel their pain and to sympathize, empathize with them. And they don't. And, uh, this further pulls the curtain back on the world of relationships and shows one really ugly side to it, which is, um, it's not for everyone, and a very select few of us can make it work long term. And if it sounds like I'm including myself in that group, there's a bit of hope in that because I've tried it once, it didn't work, and I'm trying it again. Hey, time will tell. Maybe 20, 30, I was gonna say 40 years from now, probably dead by then, I'll be able to look back and say, yeah, I did it. Second time around, I had the right formula. I had my head on straight, matured a great deal, picked a better partner, and here we are. Or I may not. But there are people that in fact pull it off. There are people out there who are able to have a relationship with one person and only that one person from very early age until the day they die, and they spit out kids and grandkids and great-grandkids. And how do they do it? That's the question, isn't it? What are they doing? And well, we could go on and on, have a whole podcast about what it is those people do to make it successful. In brief, I can tell you they probably came from really good people, intact families, uh, extended families where they had good relationships with mom, dad, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, great-grandparents, neighbors, neighbors' neighbors, on and on. You've heard the whole term, it takes a village. Uh, guess what? It does. Two people raising a kid are barely enough. Barely enough. It could be argued not enough. You need extended family to help to raise a good, mentally healthy, strong individual. You need a lot more help than that. And a single parent, forget it. No, you can't do it. Sorry, sorry guys. I know a lot of you pride yourselves on, I'm a dad and it's just me and my kids and I'm able to— no, you need some help. And I'm not saying run out and get a woman either, don't misunderstand me. I'm saying you're going to need some help. But anyway, what I'm saying in essence is, guys, pulling back the curtain and showing that, you know, there's this thing called the Pareto principle, P-A-R-E-T-O, Pareto principle, which is basically an observation that you'll hear it called the 80/20 rule. Like, if I don't care what the realm of knowledge or expertise or whatever it is. I always throw out the example of plumbers, a blue-collar worker, a skilled trade that we all need. Every building, commercial, residential, otherwise, needs a plumber. Um, so the market has recognized this need, and I don't care what town you're in, America or otherwise, uh, get on the internet, you're going to find a plumber in your area. And if I put all those plumbers together, everybody who calls himself a plumber, everybody who went through the school and the trades and became certified to call themselves a plumber, I get them all together in a room, let's say there's 100 of them, uh, 20 out of 100 will be making a living out of it. The other 80 will just be shrugging their shoulders saying, man, being a plumber sucks. There's not enough business to go around. I went through all this trade for nothing. Don't listen to anybody else who tells you otherwise. Don't ever become a plumber. Instead, go become an electrician or something else because plumbing sucks. Then you talk to the small group of the 20 and they're like, no, it's great. Make a living. I'm making six figures. I got guys working for me. I'm putting my kids through school. It's wonderful. You see that in pretty much every kind of area of expertise, any kind of endeavor. Um, sports, that's the most obvious, right? You got guys on a team, 20% of those guys produce, the rest of the 80 just kind of contribute but not really. Um, you'll see the same thing by my estimation in the relationship game. If I get 100 of you guys together and say you all want to be in a monogamous long-term romantic relationship with one woman for the rest of your life? Yes. Well, 80 out of you probably aren't going to make it. I mean, I'm not saying 80 of you will be divorced, but probably 80 of you will be a combination of divorced or in a relationship where you're just like, huh, yeah, it's all right, I guess. Dead bedrooms, you know, sexless marriages, marriage where there's just no spark left whatsoever. You can't stand each other, you just live under the same roof, you probably even sleep in different beds, you know, those type of relationships. Some of up in that, while the 20 are going to make it work, and you're going to have a happy, healthy sexual relationship between the two of you, and you're going to be very close from then to date, from now until the day you die. So which group do you want to be in? And the answer is, no matter what the area is, um, what area of competency or expertise or whatever that we're talking about— plumbing or relationships or whatever— NBA basketball, when you go to the guy and go, which group do you want to be in, the 80 or the 20 group? And the guy says, well, 20, obviously. Well, it's going to take work. And we're kind of going in a circle here, because when I say that to the MGTOW guys, guys, I can tell by your rhetoric and your anger and everything else, you really wished for this relationship thing to work and it didn't. Would you like it to work? Well, yeah, but I don't see how it's possible. It's possible, but it's gonna take work, and it's gonna take a shit ton of work on yourself especially, dude, because I've talked to you for so many— I'm talking about the guys that I do in the coaching. I've talked to you for so many days, and, um, you got a lot of shit to work through, mister, from the simple stuff such as your physicality, getting in shape and getting your health in order and so forth. You're type 2 diabetic, you need to work on that, etc., to the not so obvious, not so shallow, that deep, deep stuff, which is you were sexually abused as a kid. You need to go get some help with that. That's where a true therapist or psychologist is involved. We need to talk about your relationship with women over the years, with girls, and how you've had trouble. We need to talk about, uh, mom and dad, all kinds of stuff. That's work. You need to do all that before you can get into this world of relationships and jump into that 20 group. And that's what the MGTOW guys have seen. And by their estimation, that level of, quote, work just ain't worth it. And to that I say, that may very well be the case. But if so, why, why put up so much of a fuss? Go enjoy your life. Have at it. Like I said before, doth protest too much. You're showing your hand, guys. Uh, I would love to see a bachelor movement so that, uh, we don't paint the picture of your 80/20s. Right now it's 80/20, and the 80, society as a whole has said you're just a bunch of losers. And the MGTOW guys, you are not helping that cause, let me tell you. Because right now people are showing you as the top of the pyramid of the loser world. Why? That's not very nice. Well, simply because you can't shut the fuck up about it. You're not showing by example. Um, here, this will really hit you between the legs, guys. Um, I know a lot of the MGTOW types come from a more of a conservative right-wing sentimentality. Um, Understandable. But guys, guess who you reminded me and a lot of other guys a lot of? You know those strict feminist types? Those ones that make you cringe when you see them on the internet, on YouTube and so forth? The ones that you love to call feminazis and so forth? Those women that we all run from? That's you, buddy. You need to take a long hard look at what you're doing. It's awful lot of victim mentality, and it's an awful lot of nothing coming out of your mouth, and not a lot of action. So show us and prove via your action that there's a new— there's a new competency, a new realm of expertise, and it's one of being a mentally healthy single guy.