My Interview With Heather Ray, The Licensed Sexologist

Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching, courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person. Real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. Have you gone through like major weight loss transformation and stuff too? Because I clicked to find pictures and I'm like, oh wow, she's gone through some big changes here.

I have. I actually, it's crazy. I actually started in the last, I guess, year I've lost probably close to 45 pounds. And a lot of that was, you know, stress of divorce. And I actually was diagnosed recently with ADHD, which I feel like had a lot to do with that. Yes. So it definitely, there was a lot involved there. But you also, you know, go through, especially as a sexologist, you deal with, so, you know, you want to make sure that everyone is inclusive for all shapes and sizes are beautiful. You know, and I was on the, you know, not— I wasn't like, yes, my chart was overweight. I was full, but I didn't ever feel like I was ever, you know, obese.

Yeah, yeah, right.

I didn't feel that. Yes, my doctor said I was, but I didn't feel that way. But no one really commented on it then. But it's crazy how now, like, losing this weight and actually trying to be healthier physically to help my, you know, mental state of all of these changes, I hear more negativity about, oh, you've lost so much weight, are you sick, is everything okay? Like, it's more of a negative stigma around actually getting healthy, which is blows my mind. But it's for my, you know, professional side of things. I think it's great for me to see how that's switching. Like, body positivity is supposed to be inclusive for every shape and size, not just including, you know, the heavier beautiful women. You know, it's supposed to also keep those smaller women in, you know, in mind. It's— and it's definitely kind of taking a different turn, and I'm seeing both sides of that, like, whoa, hold up. Yes.

Well, you're tapping into something that is a whole other avenue of discussion. That is, I talk to a lot of men who go through very personal changes of, I want to look better, I want to feel better about myself, I've been neglecting myself. And I think this is in part— these are the men talking— I think this is in part why I'm in a sexless marriage is because frankly, my wife is just not very attracted to me. And I'm 60 pounds overweight, and I don't look good. I'm dressing in the old dad jeans and stuff. I'm gonna Damn it, I'm gonna improve myself. And they all, they all assume that their wife will be like, yay, I got my husband back, woohoo! Hmm, more often than not, it's, why are you going to the gym? Why are you— you've lost 10 pounds, are you sick? Are you this? Are you that? Are you cheating on me? There's the big one. Like, are you going through some kind of midlife crisis? And it kind of breaks the men's hearts. Like, the one I love more than anything in the world is not my cheerleader. She's in and they go to the next step. And often these women will sabotage these men. I made your favorite dessert, or I can't believe you're leaving us and go to the gym again. Don't you love us? Don't you love your family? And then I think men are like, holy crap, I thought this woman would be just gaga for me improving. And you've, you touched on that with your friend group. Your social group is all like, what's wrong with you?

Yeah. And mine's the reverse of what you just said. So I had actually, so I had C-sections when I had my girls. And I had that little loose patch of skin that just kind of hung over that was bothering me. I had really, or I still have stretch marks, which is, those are my battle scars. I wear them proudly. But the flap of skin was something that really bothers me because, you know, in addition to my coaching, I also, you know, I sell intimacy products. And so I model lingerie because women like to see it on a real person and not a Photoshopped image. And because it makes it more relatable. Well, I decided for myself that I was going to get a tummy tuck. And so I had a tummy tuck in May of last year, and that was kind of when things in my, you know, I feel like there were already issues there, but it really started spiraling because I knew, hey, we're in a sexless marriage. I know that he loves me, but we don't have, you know, and sexless marriage in my professional opinion is, you know, 10 or less times a year. And in my case, it was less than 6 a year. And that was, you know, in my opinion, everyone's going to have their own opinion on it, but that is considered a sexless marriage.

Yeah.

So I And I thought for a second, you know what, I've wanted to do this tummy tuck for a really long time. It's something that I want to do for me, and so I'm doing it for me. But, you know, maybe it will like really just up that sexiness, and my husband would, you know, immediately just be like, wow, I just can't keep my eyes off her, I don't want to keep my hands off of her. And instead, it, it was almost like it didn't happen. Like, he was great with the caring for me after surgery and all of that. I have nothing but great, wonderful things to say about him as a person. But the sex side of it was just, it didn't change anything for him. And of course he didn't have issues with my tummy flap or any of that beforehand. So that was all, you know, in my head. But I did, I expected, oh, I'm losing weight. I am, I don't have my little flap of skin anymore that made me self-conscious, you know. And so again, I think with that, me getting that tummy tuck, he had actually just had a heart attack. Which also, you know, will affect your confidence. And he's healthy. So to be able to say, hey, I take really great care of myself and this still happened to me, you know, it— I think there was issues there too, just with him feeling like, oh, I'm feeling my age and that's not a great feeling. And now my wife is getting hotter and she's, you know, talking to more people because she has more confidence. And it's not that I'm talking to more people because I'm interested or trying to escape or anything like that. It's just my confidence is there, and it felt good to not worry about, hey, I've got this little pudge in my jeans because my flap is there and it makes me uncomfortable. Now I'm like, wow, I'm really motivated to lose this weight, to get in shape and be the healthiest I've ever been. And unfortunately, sometimes, yes, our partners do think, oh, well, maybe she's cheating on me. You know, I, you know, was accused of that, and I'm It's like, that's not happening. You know, trust me, this is not happening. The only person that I want is you. So yeah, I can definitely relate to that on the opposite side and know what those men are feeling and how, you know, it's a, it's a bad feeling.

So it's an, it's an interesting phenomenon because it's, uh, with your ex-husband, it really exposed some not so good stuff about what was going on up here with him, which, which is, uh, he probably, you know, if you sat him down on the old psychiatrist couch, you would probably come to the conclusion that he's, I don't like myself a whole lot right now, at least not in this stage in my life. I'm getting older. I had a heart attack. I look across at my wife who looks just amazing, and I'm like, I can't measure up to that. And the more, more amazing you look— I know that's a subjective thing— but the more, um, attractive that you're looking, the more he's— you're going up and he's going down. And that is, uh, for people in your position That's not your fault. That's what I often tell these men that I talk to is like, dude, you're doing nothing wrong. For the love of God, you're getting healthier and you're looking better. You would hope that your wife would say, there's my man, damn it, look at him, he's looking good, and smack you on the butt. And every now and then the men say exactly that, like, holy crap, my wife is more handsy, she's more loving, she's cheerleader. And some women even flat out say, thank God I got my husband back. I was waiting, I was hoping you would wake up. But right, I got more often than not, no. And one, um, one phenomenon that we see that it was such a big eye-opener for me when I started all this is I heard from so many men saying, um, my wife changed completely after a gastric bypass surgery. Um, she lost 100+ pounds, and I don't know who this woman is, but she's suddenly dressing sexier, and she's more open, feminine, bubbly.

Flirty.

And that's a good thing, right? Well, yeah, but that really tapped into my insecurities. And I accused her of cheating. And we did this and we did that. And next thing you know, she's staying out a little bit later. And sure enough, it's self-fulfilling prophecy there. Yeah, she started sneaking around and, you know, outside of the marriage. That happens every now and then. And I, you know, I don't, I don't know the exact stats other than I heard something repeated quite often when you research it, saying the rate of divorce post-gastric bypass surgery. And for those listening, and, uh, that means, uh, gastric bypass is like stomach stapling or other forms of surgery where if somebody is so morbidly obese, basically they're saying we need this person to lose weight rapidly because they're going to die if they keep this up. That's, that's an extreme version of why they do this, or it could be purely aesthetic reasons. And if you make your stomach smaller, and there are a bunch of different ways to do that, you can't eat as much, you can't take in as much calories, and sure enough, you'd lose a bunch of weight fast. So that's what these women do. And these men are like, uh, yeah, I don't know who this person is. But anyway, the rate of divorce post-gastric bypass is twice that of the normal rate of divorce. So your chances just went up exponentially. But that's a whole, as I often say, this is one of my verbal crutches. I often say this term, people make fun of me for it. You're going down a rabbit hole of interesting, the interesting world of relationships and sex. But speaking of sex, um, We are talking to Heather Rae today, who is a licensed sexologist. Now, before we get in what in the hell that means and how you can help my viewers and listeners out there, um, you just kind of tap danced around something. You were in a sexless marriage, something that a lot of men watching this and listening to this can relate to. But Heather, You're an attractive sexologist. If this can happen to you, yes, it can happen to anyone. So, um, I don't know how much you want to get into that, or whether you feel comfortable getting into that, but what the heck happened?

Yeah, we, you know, I was married to someone much older than I am, and which, you know, you, there was a 26-year age gap there, and literally one of the most amazing men I've ever met. In my entire life. And we got along so well on so many levels, um, even now, like, post-divorce, because it was not an ugly divorce at all. You know, we're just in different places in life, and this is just, you know, where we decided to go. And we do, you know, I think— I'm sure he probably thinks the same thing as far as, like, I don't know if we jumped too soon on that. You know, you'll— I guess you, you won't really know, but we were in a sexless marriage for a couple of years, and you know, like I said earlier, I kind of define sexless marriages, in my case, was about 6 or less times a year. And, you know, we had a great relationship. We didn't fight about finances. We were both, you know, successful. We, you know, didn't— we complemented each other, you know, as a team versus, you know, one overpowering the other. And sex just eventually, while it was great in the beginning, it, you know, tapered over time. And We eventually fell into that sexless marriage. I had— well, he actually had his heart attack on Easter weekend 2 years ago, and I had a tummy tuck already scheduled for like 2 months after that. So he was recovered and good to go. I had a tummy tuck, and I think the timing of that was horrible. It just happened to work out that way. Um, he had his heart attack, had already started feeling like— I'm very healthy, not having any sort of, you know, health issues. He takes care of himself, he's active, he has a young wife, so, you know, and I have young children. So he was starting over, you know. My youngest is 10, so you think, you know, he's 59 and he has a 10-year-old and he's been in her life since she was 1. That's a very long time. So he did, he started over, and so he felt like, hey, we're— I'm healthy, I take care of myself, I'm not gonna have to worry about these crazy things. But then you ring in genetics and his family has a history of heart disease. So he did have a heart attack. He went in, had a stent put on the main vein, the heart, you know, the heart back in the back, and recovered well. But I think a lot of that was already in his head, like, wow, I am older. I think it was already starting to bother him. I had a tummy tuck scheduled, so, you know, we carried on with that plan. I had my tummy tuck, and I think obviously my confidence skyrocketed. You know, I'm, wow, that one piece of skin that, you know, my first husband was extremely awful, you know, would make the comments of, you know, no one will ever love you with those horrible marks on your body, and you know, though, you know, the skin is disgusting. So it was something that definitely bothered me, even though, you know, Jared never did anything to or said anything like that. Was one of the things he was always very careful about. He loved and appreciated every part of my body regardless of whether I felt it was flawed or not. So I had my tummy tuck, my confidence, you know, goes up big time because that was my biggest insecurity. I get more involved in the gym, I start working out, I'm motivated, losing weight. And you know, in the last year I have lost, you know, like I said, like 45 pounds, I think. So drastic weight loss between my efforts and some medical things that had come up. So I think that with that confidence boosting and his confidence kind of being stunted for a little while. I think that it did cause some insecurities and definitely you roll into the accusations of, you know, maybe they are, maybe she is cheating on me. You know, maybe she is going to find someone better than me because I'm old and I'm using air quotes because I didn't look at him that way. You know, this is, that's my husband. So, you know, I don't, that's the only person I want, you know. So I think a lot of that kind of, you know, got in his head and definitely those insecurities took over, and it definitely just ended up not being a great thing for us. And I think that the tension— you know, my case, yes, I was staying with friends, I was, you know, hanging out with friends a little bit longer if the girls were at their dad's house and he was here, because I wanted to go and do things and not party. I'm not a partier, but we would go and we do things, and he kind of just wanted to be home. And if he wants to be home, I'm not going to make him go anywhere. Like, he is his own individual. So, you know, I would go and do things without him, um, because he wanted to be here, which is okay. But of course doing those things when typically that wasn't something that I would do. But that was kind of my escape from, hey, we're not having sex and I'm not getting this intimacy, so I need to keep myself busy in other places, was kind of my thought process. And now looking back, no, it probably wasn't the right way to do it, but that's how I was keeping myself from being home and being sad, thinking that my husband didn't want me, you know, because it's not a good feeling. And in his case, he's thinking, oh, she's out doing whatever it is she's doing, and maybe she's being unfaithful. You know, and now having been through all that and on this end of it, I can kind of, I can see where he's coming from 100%. So yeah, it was a bad situation.

Just a, you were just, I mean, you were fundamentally incompatible at one big, at one part. It's so funny listening to your story because I hear this exact word for word story from the opposite side of the gender aisle, from men who kind of have this awakening, as we call it in our group of, you know, I, I'm, 40-some-odd years of age or 50-some-odd years of age. I'm unhealthy, I'm this, I'm that. I just want to get back into shape. And they have a wife that's kind of sitting on the couch saying, um, at no fault of hers, I'm perimenopausal, or I've gone through the world of menopause. And I know this is different for every woman, so ladies, you know, don't jump on me for saying this, but for a lot of the women, it's, and that means my sex life is over, or at the very least severely diminished. Um, I'm not, I'm not the spring chicken anymore. And you know, if I do it once a month, that's cool with me. How about you, husband? And The husband's like, I know, I don't. And there is a chorus of people, and I'm curious to see what, what you heard from your social group, but there is a chorus of people in a man's life who will look at him and sit him down and say, you better just, uh, basically stop thinking with the thing between your legs, and you need to, you need to cut it out with all this I need sex nonsense, and I need intimacy, and I need— there are bigger there's a bigger picture here, and that is the marriage, and it's the family and everything else. So set aside your very real physical need for that type of connection and prop up the other side of the relationship. That's just as, if not more important. And the men are shamed. And of course, this is why we have, you know, your pornography and your sex workers and everything else, that they're there for a reason. It fills that void, so to speak. But just curious, did you hear from your own little social group Heather, what are you doing? You got a good man here. He's, he's everything any one woman could want in a partner.

You know, I kind of— mine, I kind of kept more quiet. I didn't really talk to people. And I think the biggest thing with that too is you think of the shame that a man goes through when they're hearing, oh my gosh, just be okay with once a month or whatever. But intimacy is a big thing in a marriage, and you need that to have that connection with that partner. You know, and in my case, he's an amazing man, but you know, as far as showing intimacy, the main time that he would show intimacy was during sex. And so that's like, I knew when we had sex, this is— this man loves me. Like, it's not just having sex, he's literally making love to me. And it is out of this— like, it's just a whole other experience. But in between sexual experiences, while yes, he you know, helped provide. He did all the things that, you know, he, he should have been doing. He was great. As a woman having the higher libido, you're— I feel like you're shamed even more because you're not supposed to have the high libido. So when people look at— in my friends group, when I would talk about it, they're like, oh, I wish that my husband wouldn't want to have sex with me all the time. And you're like, Why? You know, and of course being a sex coach, being a sexologist, intimacy coach, that's important. And I know like, hey, I need to keep this relationship as healthy as we can keep it. And intimacy is a big part for me because this is my passion. This is something that I, I see marriages go from, you know, being, you know, in a rougher stage and then they bring back that intimacy and their love just blossoms and they become so much closer together. I I see the beauty in it and I want to have that. It's an even bigger deal, not just having a high libido, but also doing this for a living. That's a big— that's my entire life.

That's your brand.

Yes. I'm like, how ironic is it that you have a sexologist in a sexless marriage? While I love this man, it's like, can you— I didn't want to build resentment and I know over time it probably would have. And so I, you know, thinking this through and having all this was kind of, you know, that's why I kind of go back and forth on maybe it was a good decision, maybe it wasn't. I'll probably regret it. You never know.

So Heather Rae, Heather Rae is back on the market. So my first thought is, um, being your profession, being that you're more out in the public eye more and more, and that will increase with things like this and your social media presence and so forth. And telling the world, oh, by the way, I'm quote, back on the market, so to speak. Do you attract a lot of creeps and weirdos? And do you? Yeah, a lot of messages coming through?

100%. And crazy, 'cause it's already happening and I have not announced that I got divorced.

Oh, they can just smell it on you, so to speak. They can sniff that out and they say there's something different about—

Social media, apparently. And it's crazy 'cause it's like, you know, Since that, like, I haven't posted even my lingerie stuff. I haven't posted any of that because, you know, I'm like, hey, I'm kind of in that limbo of what to do at this point, you know? Like, it's weird. It's, you know, I, I don't wear lingerie right now. Um, so it's like, okay, Heather, you've got to get back into the game. Like, you got to get your head back in the game and focus on these things. But I haven't announced it anywhere, you know? There was never a post like most people take to social media and bash their exes, like, my ex isn't a bad guy, and I don't put all my business out there, you know. So it's definitely— it's, it's weird. So yes, but there are still people who slide into the private messages and/or send all the friend requests, and I can, you know, typically they make it very obvious that it's not to follow me for business purposes.

Yeah, but such is the, the nature of your business. I mean, anytime you deal with anything sexual, you're going to attract— a phrase that I often use in the world of dating and so forth is, as far as men are concerned, the wolves are always circling. Um, there, there's a lot of very, very sex-hungry, desperate men out there. And as soon as they get a, um, an inkling of— wait, wait, I don't see picture of Heather's husband on here, and, and, and it looks like Heather's lost a lot of weight, and that this must mean— yeah, it doesn't take long for them to put two and two together and figure out something's up. So that doesn't surprise me whatsoever. But let's get into Heather the sexologist. What in the world does that mean? And I would love to hear how in the world you got into this world because it's pretty unique.

Yeah. So how I got into it is actually a very deep— I'll start first by explaining what that is. And so sexologist, I do a lot of sex education. I do couples and individual coaching, and that could range from a variety of different, you know, issues that people are struggling with. It may be something, you know, as serious as pain with sex, vaginal dryness, erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, desire discrepancies, so that higher and lower libido, you know, having that in a marriage can be difficult and trying to navigate that and communicating and getting, you know, a healthy compromise. So I work with a lot of that, and sometimes it is with couples, sometimes it's just an individual that's saying, hey, I'm not quite sure how to approach my partner with this, but I don't know if they would be willing to see a sex coach. So can you help me? And so I do a lot of individual work like that. I even talk to single people who maybe have gone through something similar to I did, you know, to what I just went through with my marriage, and they're saying, hey, I want to prevent that from happening again. I want to be able to be confident enough to allow my partner to know, like, hey, this is what I want in the bedroom, and not have to play the whole back and forth, like, hey, I kind of told you, but I wasn't really clear with what I was trying to get across. So a lot of that. Now, me getting started in it was— I actually started, it's probably been about 8 or 9 years now. I started with the Pure Romance parties, selling intimacy products and doing in-home parties. And I, you know, I still do that because their products are really great for vaginal health. But the, uh, when I was going through that, it was crazy how many people I didn't talk much about my past but I was abused as a child and my stepfather sexually abused me my entire childhood. I mean, from as— I remember this happening in kindergarten so I know, you know, it was happening before that and it didn't stop until I was physically able to fight him off around 15, 16 and, you know, he was an ex-Navy SEAL so it's not like it was, you know, somebody who, you know, was just easy to fight off. That was not the case. So when I started doing these parties and I started meeting— obviously, that's primarily— that's women at those parties at that time. And I'm meeting all of these women who have gone through maybe not the same thing that I had, you know, but similar. And I realized there's so many more people out there like me that have gone through this. However, I made sure my, my mental thought process on that was I refused to give my abuser the control over the rest of my life. I'm not going to allow that person to make me not enjoy sex with my future partners. I'm not gonna give him that power. Like, I'm taking that away. This is my sex life, and I'm going to embrace it, and I'm going to enjoy it. And so not everyone is able to do that, though. And so meeting so many women who have gone through similar situations, and it does, it affects them in their marriages and future sexual relationships, and their confidence, and so many different things in their lives. I mean, there's so many women that actually will, they, you know, it controls the rest of their life and every move that they make. And seeing that made me realize like there's so much more that needs to be done than just this, 'cause those parties can be very educational if you, if your consultant chooses for it to be. And I always chose that education path. It was funny, but I wanted to educate. And I'm like, there's so much more that I want to get out, that I'm able to do in, you know, a 45-minute presentation. I want to do more. And so I went through and received my sex coaching certification. And then all of the training that I had done, all of the education allowed me to register as a sexologist once I had completed all those certifications. And so that's now the front of my business. And that is my brand is I am a sexologist, sex you know, coach and sex educator. And so I do workshops and coaching, and then yeah, I still have my little parties on the side. And the only reason why I keep doing that— not only are the products good, but people are more likely to search up a Pure Romance party than they are to look for a sex coach, because a lot of people don't even know that sex coaches exist. So I can throw that education out there and then help them if, you know, because they open up to you, they trust you, and They tell you things, and so then letting them know, hey, you know what, I feel like this little bitty shopping experience right here is probably not what you need, and that's okay. Like, you don't— products aren't going to fix this. I'm not here to push products on you, but I think we can talk a little bit and I can help you do things organically that are going to help better. And then if you choose to add products, great, later. But right now, more needs to be done than just handing you a bag.

So excellent. Yeah, you have the perfect, uh, combination there of the Pure Romance. Was that the brand name of the So I would assume that has what, sex toys, lubricants, and all kinds of stuff for people to spice things up in the bedroom and have a better, healthier sex life. And perfect segue into, well, you may need to kick things up a notch here, lady customer. I would assume most, if not all, of the customers in the Pure Romance world are women.

The majority of them, yes. I have a few, obviously their husbands will come to me. But yes, the majority is definitely women.

Yeah. So perfect little combination of the two worlds there. So, you know, kudos to you for, for marrying the two. And do you have like a typical template for a client base? In other words, is there a certain circumstance or a type of client that comes to you that you say, oh, it's, it's another one of these, this, this makes up the majority of my people? Or is it just so all over the place sexually? Because, you know, human sexuality is complicated, that really there is no typical client.

A little of both. I feel like you do get the ones in that just the desire discrepancy is the biggest thing. And so typically my very first path, you know, that we start on is rebuilding that intimacy. And so doing sensual touch exercises and things of that nature are what we're starting with. And I always remind them, I'm giving you little pieces of of the puzzle. So, but these little pieces are going to be those edges, and so we need those edges done first before we can start filling in the middle. Because that— if that intimacy is not there, sex isn't going to be intentional. And yes, I can tell you, hey, go schedule sex, or I want you to go have sex right after this call, but it's not going to be intentional, it's not going to be enjoyable, and it's not going to— those results are not going to last. You're going to fall back into the same habits. And so Building the border around your puzzle before, which is all of that intimacy and connection, and then fill in the middle is going to make your puzzle a lot easier to put together and it's going to stay together. It's not going to fall apart. So my goal is to give you the tools that you need so that eventually you won't need me. You know, of course, you know, I'm always here, but my goal is to give you the tools you need so that you can continue this long-term. And then, hey, you know, you've completed all your coaching sessions. You feel like you're doing good together. And then eventually you're like, hey Heather, we love talking to you, but we are going to take a break for a little while. But if ever we need anything, we know we can reach back out and we're going to pick up where we left off. But that's the puzzle is the biggest thing that I like using as that comparison. And we all know putting the edges of that puzzle together are going to help us finish that puzzle and it keeps all the pieces together. And so that's what I like for people to look at intimacy as are the borders of the puzzles. Because that needs to come first.

Perfect analogy. I love it. I'll start— I'm going to steal that, by the way. So that's mine now.

Do it.

So edges, edges of the puzzle. But it's funny that you say that the discrepancy amongst the libido, if you will, between the partners is the most common thing you hear. If you don't know, I wrote a book called The Dead Bedroom Fix, and it sold a lot of copies. And I've written over the years, over like the 7, 8 years that I've been doing this, I've written on Oh, fatherhood and parenthood, eh, not much interest. You know, you know, finances and health and fitness, eh, not much. And then, oh, how about sex and marriage and the discrepancy between it seems to be low libido wives? And all of a sudden everyone just came to life like, oh wait, hold on, I can relate to this. But more of it turns out that is, if you set aside or you pull aside monogamous men in long-term relationships and marriages and you say, what's the number one pain point that you're experiencing as a husband? 9 times out of 10, they will say, I'm just not getting as much as I want to get. It used to be great, now not so much. And I wrote a book about it, and sure enough, a bunch of people bought it. So the— here's the big question for sexologist Heather Rae: what the heck is going on? Is it just a matter of— if you read some books and listen to some experts and so forth, they will say, welcome to monogamy. Welcome to long-term monogamy. If, if left to its own devices, if you don't push against some of this, uh, natural instincts that we have, so, or inclinations as a human animal, it invariably kind of veers towards sexlessness. You got to fight that veer towards sexlessness. You got to keep your hands on the wheel and make the corrections, or else it just goes right off the road. That's the natural way, is that you're supposed to drift apart and go find new partners, and you get bored with each other. Would you agree with that? What do you think's going going on?

I feel the biggest issue with that is we get too comfortable, and that's the easiest way for me to describe it. We get comfortable and we stop learning our partner because we assume we've been with this partner for 10 years, you know, they're the same person they were 10 years ago, and we're not. You know, not only do we change mentally, physically, you know, our needs are changing, what we like and what we dislike are going to change. And so another one of my analogies is, you know, when you first started dating and you knew that your wife loved strawberry ice cream and you went and you bought her that strawberry ice cream and you still, every now and then when you think about her at the store, you're like, let me grab that strawberry ice cream and just surprise her with a little thing of ice cream today. Maybe she doesn't like strawberry ice cream anymore. So the thought is still there. You're still being a sweetheart by going and getting that for her, but maybe she likes sherbet now. But if you don't ask those questions, you're not going to know. And we get lazy in our relationships and we stop asking our partner those questions. And that's like my, my biggest thing is there's so many things in the market that you can buy that are just like, even like intimacy questions that you can just pull a stick or a card and ask your partner a question. And it's funny, like I encourage finding those things and bringing them on date night. Pull out the stick or the card and ask your partner these questions at the dinner table. And yes, some of them might be a little bit sexy, But it's also kind of, oh my gosh, can anyone hear me? Like, it makes you giggle. It sparks that excitement like you had in the beginning of your relationship. So making sure to not underestimate those small little silly things that you see out there. They actually do a big— they do something really big for your intimacy with your partner. But I think a lot of it is just simply we get comfortable and we stop doing those things that we prioritized in the beginning of our relationship. And we forget that our partners change and we should embrace that. Rather than trying to keep them the same person they were when we dated, because you can be so much bigger and better.

Yeah. You, you've said a couple of things here. One is, uh, comfort. When we get comfortable and everything's just kind of that soft, cozy blanket of, uh, of, of stability, of security, of predictability.

Mm-hmm.

That especially, correct me if, if I'm wrong or if you disagree with it, if you disagree with this, but I think that tends to be a libido crusher for women more so than it is for men. That once I'm comfortable and everything is good and predictable and I know what's gonna happen this Monday, next Monday, and the Monday after, and same old, same old, it's just, you find a lot of women kind of looking at their watch like, is this all there is? You know, and my body is kind of shutting down sexually and I kind of go into a sexual dormancy, if I will. Which, you know, the books like by Esther Perel and so forth, point to one of the biggest libido sparks for women is novelty, newness. Oh, something unique, new, shiny. This wakes me up. And you can, you know, the most obvious— and we can get into this way of doing that— is to throw a grenade in the room and say, how about new sexual partners? That'll get it done. Sure, may not be the healthiest thing for your relationship, but it's a little risky, more than a little risky. But there are some things you can do to kind of mimic that same energy at a much more minor league scale. And that may be like those intimacy cards thing. Let's pull this out and talk about— and that may unleash or, or, or, or reveal something. Oh, I didn't know that about you. Novelty, newness. Oh, you like that? Um, I can't tell you how many men— let me actually reverse that— how many women have contacted me since my videos are getting out there more and more via a direct message on Facebook and TikTok and so forth, saying, I saw your, um, videos that come from the male perspective, which is great, but it's interesting is that I'm experiencing the exact same thing as a woman. I actually have an interest in fill in the blank. Often what I'm hearing is, um, I'm having an interest in other women, I'm having an interest in, uh, S&M type stuff, like let's get restraints and things like that, and I bring to a husband thinking that he's going to be like, Woo-hoo! But instead husband is like, ugh, what's wrong with what we're doing? This makes me feel like less of a man. Am I not enough for you? Which sounds like a very stereotypical kind of lady thing. You know, when the woman discovers that man's looking at pornography. Am I not enough for you? Why would you need to look at those women? This is basically akin to cheating on me. And same kind of energy from the men. Why do you want to kick things up a notch? You're having fantasies about other people. Uh-oh, does this mean you're cheating on me? Da da da da, and so on and so forth. So I always say to men, like, don't squash that energy. That is important. You have to be secure in yourself to say, oh, this is normal human sexuality. Your wife comes to you and says, I have fantasies about threesomes or whatever it is, doesn't necessarily mean that's gonna happen in real life. Just run with the mental energy in that. And again, all that points to is the novelty, newness. We have to figure out ways to include that in the relationship if you want to keep things hot and heavy, as I often say, which is kind of difficult to do in a long-term monogamous relationship. Which, good segue into— and you and I have spoken before and we touched on this— um, are you seeing more and more within your practice people saying, I think we want to look at this open marriage thing and that we've been reading about? What do you think, Heather? Are you, are you seeing that more and more?

I do. I see a lot of that, and it's crazy. And real quick on that comfortable side, and we'll go back to this open marriage if that's okay. The one thing that I'm really big on in my career and even in my parenting, I tell my kids this all the time, and I feel like you need to know this in your marriage and, you know, talk it through like with every aspect of your life, but if you're comfortable, we're not growing, and we need to be uncomfortable. To grow. And so career-wise, you know, even my kids in school, I'm like, strive every day to do something that makes you uncomfortable because that means that you're doing something to help yourself grow every day. And so it's just one of those things that I really love to like get out there because I feel like even for my children, it's something that I make sure I tell them regularly. But back to your open marriage, yes, I do get a lot of questions on that. And a lot of— I'm glad when they bring it up in sessions because if they choose to, because obviously I'm not making decisions for them, But I do let them know, hey, you know, you need to know going into this that anytime you incorporate other people, you know, or bring other people into your relationship, there's a risk of catching feelings. And it's very— the response that I get is always very quick, oh no, that won't happen. So you're not ready for that. You know, if you think that that is not a possibility, you are not ready for anything that an open marriage entails because there is every bit of a chance that you will develop feelings.. And some people make that work for them, and that's okay. One of the things that I typically tell people when they're thinking of going open marriage route is you need boundaries. And so typically, like, I do a lot of working with couples that want to try to branch in that direction or just test the waters, and walking them through steps to do that slowly and then communicating before we jump into heavy, you know, little baby steps, visiting you know, swingers clubs or things of that nature and not participating the first time, you're feeling it, you're taking everything in, and then you're having a discussion about it. Not that night because you may be drinking, you're going to have a discussion about everything you were feeling over coffee the next morning, you know. And then we are setting boundaries. If we say, hey, you know what, it was really cool to go, but I kind of enjoyed being there and not playing with anyone, because you have every right, that option to not do anything while you're there. They're not going to push you to do anything that you don't want to do at those clubs. But knowing, hey, there are boundaries and we need to know what those look like for us. So being able to help couples put pen to paper and draw out those healthy boundaries and safe touches. So maybe a safe word might be awkward in a situation like that, but a safe touch would be better. Hey, if I tap you, if I put my arm around you and I tap you 2 times, on your side, or 3 times, that means that I'm uncomfortable and we should go. But I'm not saying, hey, let's get out of here because I don't like this place, and making it awkward for each other and for those around us. So a safe touch is a really good way anytime you're trying to incorporate something new rather than using words that might make a situation awkward. But yes, I do hear a lot about the open marriages now, and I just tell people, hey, it might work for some, and that's great. Just make sure that you're going into it the right way.

Yeah, bringing the phrase I often use is sex is complicated. If, if, and I hear from so many men where it's, I'm gonna go get something on the side and it will mean nothing and nothing will happen with it. I'm not the kind of guy that's just gonna catch feelings and all that stuff. I'm like, okay, yeah, it happens, men and women both. Yeah, there's the stigma of men are able to separate their emotionality from sex. Not always, no. Um, you have some guy that's in a multi-year sexless marriage, and, uh, what you'll often hear from these men is, surprisingly, the wife is so fed up with being chased after by this man that she goes, why don't you just go get your girlfriend if that's what you want? If, if I'm not enough person for you, fine, go ahead. And, um, the men are like, yeah, I got the green light. I mean, be careful because you're going to go out, especially if these men are charismatic, they got a good personality about them, they look the part. I'm like, you're, you're kind of a rare commodity out there, and you may very well find, Mr. 50-some-year-old, a 30-some-year-old that is going to be a lot more energetic and a lot more sexual and everything else. And you're going to spend a night or two with her, and you're going to come home to the wife who wants nothing to do with you. And you don't think that will have poor implications or positive— negative implications on your marriage? Think again. So in other words, involving other human beings in your relationship, I would think, is just the holy crap tippy top of the things to do to spice things up meter.

And there's so many other things in between there.

Yes, so many. And you talked about going to like a sex club or something like that. For a lot of people, that's also kind of high on the totem pole of holy crap things. Well, take it, you know, pull it down a little bit. How about a strip club? Which is just literally going and watching human beings dancing on a stage. Okay, that's a little out there for you? Take it down a notch as well. There's always something. And what I think a lot of men, being the horn dogs that they are, what they do is they jump from stage A to stage Z. Like, no, no, dude, there's a lot in between. You don't have to start bringing out the implements and ordering, you know, we've had guys that are, you know, I got a little taste of energy from my wife. We had a very good session the other night. And so I went on Amazon and ordered 8 sex toys and we're— I'm like, okay, you know, easy, easy there, dude. And sure enough, they scare the woman away, and the woman's very turned off by this new kind of lustful teenagery behavior. It's not, it's not cool. It's not— it's just very spazzy is the term I often use. Like, no, just chill out. So to throw other human beings is the ultimate spazzy, horned-up mode. So pull it down and find I guess the stepping stone or the little incremental step towards more heightened sexuality, dirtiness between the two of you. One thing that I like to point out to people is the theme of it's our own little private sexy world that no one needs to know about. We're a sexy little secretive couple. You know, they would say she's this professional woman and I'm this other professional guy. And if, if they knew about our own little secret sexy ways, people would probably be like, you seriously? That in itself is a level of that secretiveness, that, that sexiness, that we're a team together. That's something that kind of brings us together in that way. In addition to all these little, the intimacy cards which we use, we actually use those on a podcast episode together, asking each other questions. Um, that unleashes the, uh, oh really? Anytime you have those oh really's, that's a good thing. As far as bringing you two closer together. And you talked about building the intimacy and how important that is and how that's the, basically the foundation for all the sexiness. You have to be close together up here. Um, what really baffles a lot of people, and me saying that right now, I can hear people in the internet who are watching, who are going to watch this later on YouTube. I can hear the men screaming, nuh-uh, because The hot— the hottest sex I ever had, a lot of these men will say, was with somebody I just met. Or my spouse, as soon as we divorced, lost a bunch of weight and she became this sex fiend and started having all kinds of intimate relationships and was out there doing stuff. I heard the stories secondhand from people, with people she just met. And I always tell people, it's not a fair comparison. Um, that new relationship energy is something else, isn't it? It's a whole other level of animalistic sexuality that is more difficult to mimic within a relationship with somebody you've known for 20 years, which is in part why, hey, how about we bring somebody new into this relationship, is quote dangerous because your husband or wife starts having those cool feelings for the other person. That's what we're talking about, is that new relationship energy. That's really potent stuff. Um, so I don't know if you want to speak to that at all, if you've seen people succumb to that.

And oh, 100%. And that's why I always start those conversations off with, you know, are you concerned? And I don't even say you have to be aware. My first question is, are you concerned at all about developing feelings for this person? And immediately, no, no. Okay, well then I don't quite think that we're there. Like, anytime we're bringing someone outside in, you do have that new relationship energy. It is something new that's exciting. I mean, it's just like if somebody cooks spaghetti every night of the week and then someone pops in with some chicken, like, you're gonna eat that chicken up because you were just not burnt out on the spaghetti. You still like spaghetti, but that's what you get every single night. And then you bring this Kentucky Fried Chicken in here, or in my case, I'm from Georgia, so you get Grandma's homemade fried chicken in here. And I'm sorry, if I have to choose between the two right now in this moment, I'm kind of over here, and that spaghetti is gonna get a little bit hurt, you know. Hey, you've had me every night and I'm still just as good as I was 4 nights ago. So it's definitely, you know, I like my little analogies, but that's That's definitely something to consider. And when you were talking about that being like an A to Z scale, I think a lot of people struggle with finding, you know, B through Y and things that they can do here. And which is another great, like, thing for a sex coach, obviously, because I surprisingly, I actually have a list of when I have people who are saying, hey, we want to try something spicy, but we don't know if we're quite ready for that because that's extreme. We're not going to go there yet. I don't feel quite like I would feel comfortable or confident telling you guys, yes, you're ready for that, because I'm not going to tell you, hey, yeah, sure, you can try it if I feel you're not ready for it. I'm going to be honest. I just don't think that you're quite there, and that's okay. Let's try these other things first. And I seriously have a yes, no, maybe list, and I have a mild version of that, and I have a wild version of that. And so they're going to be more of you know, the milder top of just, you know, different things. I mean, some people don't even do oral, so you will see those types of things on there. Or the wild one will have even more things as far as the kink, those types of things in it. Uh, so there's definitely two different versions, but there's a list, and you're taking that entire list that I send you, and it's like four columns, you know, of sexual acts that you can do with your partner. And you're making columns, a yes, a no, and a maybe. And then we're comparing those lists to see, hey, is there anything in this yes column or the maybe column that both of you had? And then I always typically tell people, if you put something in the no column, if it's because you're not familiar with it or you're afraid it's going to hurt, do not— put a star by it. You can still put it in the no because I'm not going to try to persuade you. But that shows me, hey, maybe you do need a little bit of education on it. And that's what I'm here for, too. So, you know, anal is definitely one that gets put in the no column for females a lot of the time. But a lot of that's because when we see that happening or we've had an experience in the past, it was painful or they think it's going to be painful. And it's not always just, hey, I'm not here for that, because they have that right to say no. But sometimes it's just fear and nothing about that should be painful if it's being done properly. So me being able to educate them briefly on ways to do that so that it's not painful can actually take that no and actually put it in the maybe column. Like, oh, okay, I was actually afraid of that, but I didn't know how to communicate it. But this actually makes me think that maybe that is something that I would maybe like to try, since I know it's something that my partner has wanted to try. Maybe, maybe we could give it a shot, you know, or meet halfway on it. And that's just like the quickest one that came to mind because it is one that's always, more often than not, in the no column.

And it's something that I think probably comes up more so than ever before, simply because of porn, right? Yeah, porn glorifies it as being kind of a given thing that you do. And no, for a lot of people, that's kind of a way out there. And, and if you don't do it right, it can go in the wrong direction quick.

Yeah.

Um, here is a controversial topic for you. You consider yourself a pretty sex-positive person, as I do as well, but Let's say you have a person who has 300 past sexual partners. Is that person— and they decide, you know, I think I want to be a strictly monogamous person from here on out. I'm going to get married, me and this one person, from here on out, no other people. It's time to, quote, settle down. In your mind, does that person have a higher chance of that relationship strictly monogamous traditional relationship, not working as compared to a person who has had single-digit sexual partners? In other words, does body count matter?

I love when we talk about body count. This is like one of those topics that just gives me chills. I don't feel like it's setting them up for any sort of failure. And my reasoning for that is, you know, typically, if I had the opportunity to talk to this person, I would be sure to let them know. You need to make sure that you find someone who is sexually compatible, not just because you feel like this person is going to make an amazing parent, an amazing partner, and a great person that I can spend the rest of my life with. My parents are going to be proud to see this person come to Christmas every year. You really need to be thinking about sexually— sexual compatibility too, because if that person has a low libido, then yes, you are, you know, and they're not willing to work on things there, they're content with that, that's probably— you're kind of setting yourself up for failure, yes. But if you find someone who's just like, hey, I am completely open to trying new things with you and having an exciting sex life, and they're just as excited as you are about it, I think that it's great. I don't feel like body count matters, and I'm one too. I will not tell anyone my number. I won't, because for one, it's no one's business. It doesn't define me. And two, I don't even know if I know my number. So it's kind of one of those things. I'm not going to allow it to put a title on me. You know, I just like getting married, you know, and I love when people wait to and they save themselves for marriage because I am a traditional girl and I like am the hopeless romantic and I think that's beautiful. But, you know, coming from a stance of, you know, me, and I'm very an open book, so stop me if I need to, but losing my virginity as a teenager, you know, I, you know, I was a later teen. I didn't do everything that everybody else was doing, but I dated this guy for a year and a half, and he was the love of my life. Like, I knew this was the man that I was gonna be with for the rest of my life. Just knew it. As soon as I had sex with him and lost my virginity to him, He started cheating. And so it's like, whoa, that was something that was really, really sacred to me and that was special. And I saved that. I was saving that for my husband and you used me and you took that for your own personal gain. Like that, that, that was, that was hard. And so now, you know, when I see clients that come to me and I love when I get my virgins because they are asking more about, hey, I don't know what I'm doing. Wedding night's coming up and how can I make this not painful like I hear it is? And so being able to talk them through that is one of like, it just gives me all the good feels. But also, I don't encourage people to wait until marriage either, because I do— not to say because it didn't work out for me, but because I do feel like it is important to know if you are sexually compatible before you marry them. You know, that's a big deal. And you know, they always joke about test driving the car before you buy it. But yes, get in that car and give it a good spin. Make sure that you are sexually compatible because marriage is a, is a big deal, you know, and yes, you can get divorced, but you don't want to go into a marriage thinking that way. So definitely, like, I am very big on encouraging sex before marriage.

You know, I am too. I am too. Because I, I talked to the men that are in these relationships where I waited up until, and so did she, and then we get together and we realize we, I realize she doesn't like it all that much. And she realizes, yeah, I don't think I want to do this all that much. And he's just like, oh, it's like, yeah, you're, you're fundamentally incompatible. And that way. I love that you brought up— okay, your person who's been promiscuous for lack of a better word, hypersexual, a lot of partners before that. You'd better make sure you have a partner who matches your energy.

Yeah, it maybe not matches your number by any means.

No, but yeah, the mental framework if you will of 'yeah, I'm explorative' or is that the word? Or 'I'm open in that way.' I'm sexual, have a high libido, um, because I can't tell you, I've heard both sides of this equation. It seems to be a similar mindset, which is, I've had my fun, I was with all of these women. This is the men I talked to, the former player types. Um, many of them were in like the nightclub industry, bartenders and so forth. And I had a lot of one-night stands. Sometimes we didn't even leave the club. Sometimes I just did it right there, multiple women in a week. And I've determined by virtue of all the drama that I was exposed to that none of those women were really wife material. So I need to swing the pendulum over here to find the most boring, dull, but safe, secure domestic creature I can find. And then lo and behold, oh, the sex life kind of sucks. Well, this, this is terrible. What do I do? And those men often cheat, and a lot, because they have those skills to go pick up women. Like this, or they have a roster of women that they can call on going, hey, remember me? And away they go. And what I've also seen from the other side of the equation is women that will be, I've had a lot of fun, I've had great sexual partners, but it didn't result in finding Mr. Right. I had my heart broken too many times. All men are pigs. So I want to find a guy who is Mr. Domestic, ready to settle down, ready to be Does he check the sexy boxes? Not necessarily. Does he— is he the kind of guy I swoon over? No, but he's a good man and he loves me and he'll be a great father. And after a kid or two, they're like, what did I do? Oops, we're not compatible in that way. He just doesn't have that spark. He just doesn't make me swoon. He hasn't ever. Now that I think about it, maybe this was a big oopsie. I've spoken to both sides of the equation. So I think people take that and say, if, if your body count number equals X, then you might as well not even try. No, I think if we look at raw numbers, yeah, maybe your chances of not remaining in a long-term monogamous relationship go down. But the question is why? And I think a big piece of the puzzle is because you picked the wrong person. You need to be open and honest with yourself about who you are. There's no shame in who you are, but you need to find somebody that's compatible with who you are. And you are a sexual person, and we know this because you've been with 300 people. That's a pretty big indicator that you're a sexy person. So find a fellow sexy person. Um, but that's tough. That's really tough to find that person. I want somebody who's good in the sack, somebody that is sexy and open to things, and somebody who meets me at an intellectual level and an emotional level. That's really, really tough to find. And we've had people on both sides of the gender aisle saying, I can't put all those eggs in one basket, in one human, so I'll just get as many eggs as I can and just deal with the fallout, the repercussions of that. And so before we get, uh, continue on, I want to tell people how to find Heather the sexologist, how to book time with you. How do they know— pardon me— how do they know it's time to go from, I got some issues in the bedroom, to I better get some help with this?

Yeah, so you can find me at Best Life Behavioral Health. So if you go to— or Dr. Psych Mom, if you're familiar with Dr. Psych Mom, she has me listed on her site. So you can find me there and book appointments. You can attend workshops. I know we have 3 workshops up right now, uh, for actual oral favors for the male partner, oral favors for the female partner, and just overall anatomy of the vulva, because I feel like it's something that everyone needs to know. And so you can actually register for those workshops too. They're inexpensive, or you can book a coaching session. So yeah, all of that's on the bestlifebehavioralhealth.com site.

Best Life Behavioral Health. And I'll put that up on the screen here so people can, can go to it. And I'll put it in the description, a link as well. And so I'm, I'm, I'm a dude, let's say, because that's most of the people are going to be watching this. I'm not happy with— I'm not happy with the way things are going. To say things are sexually boring would be an understatement. Wife really seems to have checked out. She's in that sexual dormancy phase that I mentioned. And I'm watching Heather and I'm listening to her stuff. I go to the website and I'm like, we really need to sit down with somebody like this. How do I break it to the wife? Hey, I found this person called a sexologist. Would you be interested in going? Is it that simple? Or do you have maybe a game plan for if you're the high libido partner trying to pull the low libido person into my office? Here's how to do that.

I like to encourage not using sex. The word sex coach can be intimidating. That's why you'll catch me using the word, the phrase intimacy coach and sex educator a lot more than sex coach, because especially talking to a female partner, when you go to her and say, you know, I really want to be closer to you intimately, I have, you know, heard this podcast or heard this video that really talked about, you know, getting that intimacy back in your relationship, and it spoke to me and it made me realize I do want that with you, I miss having that with you, you know, is this something that you would be interested in doing if we were to see an intimacy coach to work on those those issues and to help bring us closer, or maybe there are no issues, but I feel like you can always be better. So would you be interested in that? Changing that phrase and saying, hey, I heard it here, I wasn't just Googling it and researching it, I actually heard this online and it's becoming a big thing, would you be interested? And just switching the sex coach to intimacy coach does a big difference, especially when you're speaking to a female partner, but then also maybe you have a male partner who has that lower libido. It's the same thing. You change that word and it does make it a lot more inviting versus, oh, what's wrong with our sex life? Oh, intimacy. That's actually what I would like more of. That's why I don't have sex with you all the time is because I don't feel like we have enough intimacy. When you change that, it makes it feel like you're trying to get closer to her on an intimate and emotional mental level, which we're going to, so you're not lying. But all of that will eventually lead to you wanting each other more.

Do you see, do you see clients where they came to you as a last resort? It was an ultimatum from one of the partners, like, we're going to go to this or else we're done?

Yes. And when I have those clients, you know, obviously we do everything we can to kind of work through that. But I do get more pushback from the partner who's being forced to be there. They don't put as much effort into it. And like I said, I like to build this into it being intentional, not because someone feels forced because they're gonna be forced or given divorce papers if they don't have sex. Like, that's not something that you ever want to tell your partner because you're ruining that safe space before you even give me a chance to help, help you fix that. So try to make sure with how you're presenting it with your partner, for sure, and just leave— create that safe space. And when you have that safe space for your partner, they're going to be more inclined to do things that you're wanting to do, but then also to get the help. But if threaten them with a divorce and say, if you don't do this, this is what's going to happen. They already feel like they failed. You know, what are they fighting for? So it's definitely the way you say it. And if you can avoid giving the ultimatum, it's always going to make the work a lot easier, you know, a lot more intentional on your partner's side too.

And how often when you sit down with clients do you say, whoa, timeout, there are issues that go beyond that of a sex coach or intimacy coach. This is more of a psychologist type of issue here. We've just uncovered something that makes me go, ooh, put the brakes on. Does that happen fairly often?

Not fairly often. I send over a client intake form, um, and typically I can see, okay, they're already seeing a therapist, or if I see more underlying issues, then I typically tell them, hey, you might be better off either seeing a therapist first or, you know, seeing them while we're working through these other issues, but it'll be easier for us to get to this if we're having that, that work done at the same time. And Samantha's real good. Dr. Witten's really good about going through those intake forms too and talking to the clients before booking them to know if that's something she could help them with first. And then she sends them over to me for sex coaching, or she has them work with two separate, you know, me for the sex coaching. And then I think there's, there's obviously other therapists there working with Samantha depending on what state you're in. So, and then I'm, I can work in any state.

So very— oh, so you can work in any state. Very good.

I can.

Very good. So you do— do you do a lot of stuff via Zoom and so forth?

That's the majority of my coaching business.

Oh, really?

Yeah, it's great.

Do you utilize the vulva puppet over Zoom?

I do. You want to see it?

Please. Wouldn't be complete without the vulva puppet, right? Last time we— last time we chat— last time we— last time we chatted, I said that that would be the perfect band name. For a heavy metal band, like a thrash metal band, a vulva puppet. So yeah. No, please go ahead. I'll stop your show.

I have the actual puppet. So she has jewels to show me the different, the urethra, the clitoris. There's actually a jewel inside for the G-spot. And then I have my 3D mold that will actually show you the hot pink clitoris. And it shows you that the clitoris isn't just there. It actually stems down the vulva.

The branches. Yeah. The wishbone. Yeah.

So yeah, so I'm actually able to use this for all of my anatomy lessons and to allow that education because we're not taught about pleasure in sex ed. You know, they didn't teach us that growing up. And so being able to— being a female and having been married, divorced with two kids before I was able to orgasm with a partner, I didn't know all the things that you could do to actually be able to orgasm with a partner. I didn't know that you needed the 15 to 30 minutes of foreplay. I didn't know that all of this could be stimulated. I just thought it was there because it needed to be there. And now knowing, wow, there's actually a lot of nerve endings. That little part of the clitoris has over 8,000 nerve endings. It has more nerve endings than the entire penis. So, wow, like those types of things, it's like, holy cow, it's insane. So being able to spread that knowledge and let people know different ways to, you know, please your partner And better understanding their genitalia is obviously going to make them more successful in the bedroom.

Excellent. Excellent. So everyone again, check out—

I have a penis one coming.

Oh, you do?

Right now I'm having to use like a silicone dildo, but I do have one that matches this that's coming in the mail here in the next week. So I'm very excited.

All right. All right. Well, and I would think that the male anatomy is a little bit simpler to explain. It's like, because it's, it's all, it's all out there, so to speak, you know.

It's just, there's parts you could focus on.

There's mystery there.

There's a little bit that maybe you didn't know. So definitely not, oh, it's a penis, plain and simple. There are different parts that have more nerve endings than some of the other areas.

Well, all right, everyone check out Heather Rae online.

And again, the website is At bestlifebehavioralhealth.com.

Bestlifebehavioralhealth.com. And you can also find more at Dr. Samantha Rodman-Whitton's website at drpsychmom.com. And look for Heather Rae on social media. And let's give her a like and a follow. And Heather, thank you so very much for being on. I appreciate it a great deal.

Thank you.