Ralph Brewer answers a listener whose ex-wife keeps inviting him to family outings ten months after separation. Brewer says skip them: joint activities prolong attachment and can hurt kids. Setting boundaries isn't selfish, it's necessary for healing.
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Okay, if you're a frequent listener of the Dad Starting Over podcast and you find yourself saying, "Yeah, that sounds like me," well, you don't need another podcast episode. What you need is support. The Help for Men Brotherhood is where men go when they're done pretending that they got it all handled. You know, your dead bedrooms, your divorce, your loneliness, your rebuilding life. We have private forums, frequent live Zoom meetings, one-on-one coaching courses, all my books at no additional charge. And yes, we get together in person, real men and real conversations. So stop doing this alone and join the Help for Men Brotherhood today at help4men.com/join. I look forward to seeing you in the next member meeting. Jared says, 10 months post-separation, my ex-wife likes to do things as a family with the kids, which I still find quite painful. I'm a bit torn between avoiding the pain and trying to move on and still doing activities together. Any thoughts here? Well, I'm gonna open that up to the forum as well. Let me make some adjustments here to my window so I don't have to stretch my neck to look. All right, can I move this up? Yes, I can. Sweet. Boop-a-doop-a-doop-a-doop. All right, here we go. All right, so, um, doing things as a family with your ex, I know there's— that, that's not a unique thing in terms of you didn't come up with— you and your ex-wife didn't come up with this concept. I hear a lot of people saying the same thing. And it always strikes me as a little, by my estimation, a little odd. It seems like when you are separate, you are separate. You wanted to, you know, leave said arrangement wife, you want to divorce, well, you lose the benefits of said marriage. No, I don't come fix your faucet for you. I've heard those stories. I remember I had a guy who, I brought him up several times where the ex-wife said a tree fell in the backyard and he's like, I'm coming right over. And he took his chainsaw, cut up the tree, loaded up in the trailer and took it away. And I'm like, why would you do that? And he's like, well, why not? I got a chainsaw, I got a trailer. Kind of dickhead would I be to not do that? I was like, well, dude, that's not your responsibility anymore. She's a big girl. She wanted to separate, divorce, move out and start over with somebody else. Let the somebody else take care of that or her own. Or herself rather. And he just didn't want to be an asshole. Mr. Nice Guy, right? We talked about people pleaser. Jared, I would say if that bothers you to be hanging around with the ex and playing family, playing mom and dad and all this other stuff with the kiddos, then it behooves you to put up the old proverbial boundaries and say, I don't feel comfortable doing that anymore. I'm sorry. You want to take the kid out, kids out somewhere on your own? Have fun. And I'll do the same. But together as a family? Sorry, it's not in the cards anymore. We're separate for a reason. If that is in fact what you're thinking, what you're feeling, then I don't see anything wrong with that. That's personally how I would be. I don't think I'm a dick for thinking that way. But then there's the whole mindset of we're doing things for the children. This is best for the children. This is, you know, to keep a, what's the word? Like a, the face of the family, to show them that you guys are working together for their benefit, to do things positively for them, the children. Mom and dad are together. I've heard of families getting together still for holidays and so forth. I could see that. It's Christmas time, here comes dad and his new woman, mom and her new man, we all get together. I can't personally imagine that with my own personal, I guess, baggage and so forth, but some people are able to pull that off. God bless them, whatever. Um, I don't know, what do you guys think? I'll open that up to you guys. Do you think that's weird to be doing things together as a family with, with the ex? Um, you know, talking about avoiding pain, you know, some people are like, you gotta suck it up, dude, and, and just face the music for your children's sake and go out there and do stuff with their mother. At the same time, um, this is a unique thing with this breakup with being together and then suddenly not. You're definitely not going to be together anymore, right? You broke up for good. This isn't some temporary thing just to test the waters or whatever bullshit people come up with. You're done. You're 10 months post-separation, you say. So going on a full year of not being a couple anymore. There's still a very real tendency for people to feel attachment to their ex, longing feelings, romantic feelings. That's normal, right? And, you know, still long for them in a way. Maybe they really, really hurt you, but still there's a part of you that secretly Wishes, but you realize rationally, not a good thing. We need to, we need to stay separate. You don't help your cause, and you don't help expedite that separation process, emotional separation process, if you continually are in contact with them, chatting, you know, texting back and forth little funny things, and you want to come on over and eat lunch with the kiddos. You're still a little— you're getting a little taste of your drug, your addiction to them, and it's that just prolongs that attachment. And if you want to expedite the detachment from them, you have to eliminate those little moments. That's all there is to it. So there's nothing wrong with just saying, 'Timeout, ex-wife, not gonna happen anymore.' And you don't have to, you know, go to her and say, 'It's because I still have these lingering feelings and it's really tough for me emotionally,' blah blah blah. You can just say, 'No, I don't feel comfortable doing that.' That's all there is to it. There's nothing wrong. No is a complete sentence. No, period. Not happening. Why? It's best for the kids. No, no, I'll— you know, you're more than welcome to do those things for the kiddos. I will pick them up on Saturday or whatever it may be. So nothing wrong with that, dude, as far as, uh, my opinion is concerned. Joseph says wasted time doing all that stuff with the wife, I assume is what you mean, Joe. Steve says, if it's painful for either party— this is Steve from the DSO fraternity, our coach from Australia. Excuse me. It's painful. If it's painful for either party, the kids will sense this and it's not good unless it's an important occasion. Yeah. You know, there's— I was just talking. Was it yesterday in our DSO fraternity meeting? I think it was. Yeah. Thursday, yesterday. And we were saying that it seems like it is not to pick on the ladies or anything. But we do see it, uh, well, let's be honest, our perspective as dudes that are divorced from women, that's the only perspective we have, right? But we see it from our women— ex-women rather, ex-partners— um, where we see a lot of them want to prolong that comfortable family state and all that goes with it, all the comfort, safety, and everything else that goes with it, almost pretending and going through the motions even when they at times are the one to say, "Husband, I don't want anything more to do with you. We're done here." They initiate the divorce and the breakup or do something as painful as, you know, sleeping with others or whatever it may be. And the husband's dumped and the husband feels, you know, abandoned and all this other stuff. And sometimes those women are just like, you know, "Come on over and do this. Can you come help me with this? Let's go do this, blah, blah, blah." And the men are like, "Are we broke up or what?" Sometimes it behooves the man in that position to play the part of the adult. Sorry, we're no longer a couple anymore, sweetheart. You know, I still love you in a way. Part of me always will, but it's romantically— no. And with that goes all the other stuff that goes with being your romantic partner. And that is, no, I'm not going to come over and chop up the tree and take it away. No, I'm not going to come fix your sink. No, I'm not going to come have dinner with you. No, I'm not going to go to the mall with you with the kids. No, I'm not going to the amusement park. No, no, no, no, no. Welcome to the real world, sweetheart. Sorry, comes with breaking up. And, um, that's a very normal, healthy adult thing to do, at least by my estimation. Um, but what a good topic. Thank you so much for that, Jared. Appreciate it.
