Episode 311: Seventeen and Soaring

No need to whine, it's whiny palooza! Have some wine and join us on the whiny palooza podcast with Rebecca Greene.

Welcome to the whiny palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Greene. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

Hello everyone, happy Winey Palooza Wednesday!

Welcome to Winey Palooza Wednesday!

It is an extra special Wednesday today.

It is indeed.

Why is it extra special today?

Because it is our oldest child, our wonderful son Max's 17th birthday.

How does that feel?

I don't know how we got old enough to have a 17-year-old son. I feel like we just brought him home from the— like the other day I was like going, I can't even figure out how to put him in the car seat. And he's 17 now.

I would like us to take a moment to giggle. About trying to leave the hospital.

I couldn't believe they were letting us take this new baby home. I was like, I don't know what I— I mean, she knows what she's doing, but I don't know what I'm doing. You're trusting me with this baby, this human being?

No, I was more thinking about the snow, the car seat.

Yeah, I couldn't figure out how to get spent. She'd be like, well, it's gonna take a while for them to discharge me, you just go out and get the car seat all installed. Like, and I think it was half an hour, hour later, I'm still swearing at the thing in the snow, in the mini, in the car. She's like, did you get it fixed yet? I'm like, I don't know how to put this damn latch system in.

Oh, those were the days. Now, hey, now you're an expert.

I am rusty. I have not thankfully had to mess with the car seat for years. They probably have new versions now.

So Joette says, wow, 17. Happy birthday, Max.

Yes.

Joette understands. Thank you, Joette. Joette's sons, I think, are both older than Max, right, Joette?

It's craziness.

I know.

I told you.

Hi, Randy.

You always ask how do they get so old, and I said, 'Cause you keep feeding them. We can stunt their growth if we starve them.

No, no. I was thinking the other day, I want to tell you this, I had an epiphany. I was on Facebook writing, they need to slow down, and I stopped myself.

Yes.

And I was like, you gotta stop writing that. You don't want them to slow down. You want them to grow and thrive.

Yes, at the pace they're supposed to.

I'm never gonna say those words again. I'm never gonna say slow down. I don't want that.

Right.

So Joette's boys are 20 and 18, Seth.

That's craziness. We don't wanna slow down. We just wanna take a moment and appreciate where we are right now. We are so lucky to have a 17-year-old son.

I'm gonna tell you something that is not gonna surprise you.

I'm ready.

Do you think that there were tears today?

Of course.

Do you think that there was joy today?

Yes, of course. So I think both of those are also still coming.

So moms, when our kids turn whatever they turn, yes, I am telling you that it is normal to feel all the emotions, all the feelings.

There's lots of feelings.

And I am also telling you to take a moment to to celebrate yourself. So I'm celebrating me too.

That's right, it's your birthday.

We did all the work and I birthed him. Yes, 17 years ago. And guess what? It was not easy. It wasn't easy. If it was easy, we might be having like a different conversation, but I worked my ass off.

You worked something off. Yes, if your ass had anything to do with it.

Yeah. So we celebrate the moms too.

That's right. Happy birthday.

I remember someone telling me that they send their mother flowers every year on their birthday.

That's a good idea.

And I was like, oh my God, I need to take note of that. That is a really good idea. And I also had a mom comment today that she felt like she deserved a cake on her kids' birthdays.

Deserve more than a cake, honey.

So I did get us Paula's Donuts on Max's request. If you live near me, you understand.

Yeah.

If you don't live near me, it is a really good donut place. And we are so full from dinner that not one of us ate our donut, but they will get eaten tomorrow.

That's right, breakfast is champions.

He had a great day, and I think the most special part of the day is that our daughter Lily, who is 11, did Max's scavenger hunt.

That was, that was adorable.

So we do a scavenger hunt for every birthday.

You do a scavenger hunt for every— I do not get any credit. This is all you.

I do a scavenger hunt. That's our tradition. And Lily took it over today, and Max requested that Lily do the scavenger hunt. And her scavenger hunt was adorable, and she blew mine out of the water. She had poems.

She had a rhyming poem for every clue.

Like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

I'm not doing that.

So he had gifts at all his little stops and it was a good day.

Yes.

And I'm thankful.

Yes.

And how do I have it be Winey Plousa Wednesday on my son's birthday and not talk about parenting my son, right? So let's talk about parenting a 17-year-old.

Let's indeed.

And I want to hear from you. So tell me what you— what resonates with you, what you agree with, what you maybe do differently with your teenagers. This is not a one-size-fits-all. This is what it's like to parent Max at 17, right? Maybe different with Ella and Lily when they're 17, and it may be different with your kids. So our parenting changes with our kids, and it's evolving. And just because something is working this week doesn't mean that next week he might not need something different.

Very true. So always a state of change.

Well, when we think we have our kids figured out, they change, they decide to stir things up. So I want you to tell me your thoughts because we haven't really discussed my blog. You read it.

I did.

There is a blog at whinypalooza.com. Go read it, please. And Seth read it, but I didn't get his thoughts. So let's start with that. I really want to foster independence in Max, so I step back more. I do more hands-off. I don't know if you notice that. Um, sure, if he asks me for food, I'm always going to make him food. I'm always going to do his laundry if he wants me to do his laundry or whatever. Don't smile back there. What I'm talking about— this is what I'm talking about, right?

Different kind of independence.

Well, and that independence is easy. I feel like laundry, cooking for your— he knows how to cook. I mean, he needs to learn more, right?

But he can—

the laundry machines are easy. They're not complicated. He's a smart kid. Sure, I need to teach him.

I was going to say, we got a year.

Um, I think that he definitely needs to learn how to do laundry. I haven't let any of my children touch the—

you don't let me touch the laundry.

Well, the washing machine was a fortune, which then led me to not letting anybody in the house touch it. So anyways, very fancy. Okay, so independence— what do I mean by that? Life skills, obviously. Driving, help me out, balancing a check, finances, credit card. We taught him how to get gas and use a credit card, and things just keep coming up that we just keep teaching him. We want him to learn life skills. We want him to be independent, right?

Yes, functioning adult.

And we want him to be able to— listen, I still call my mom, and like the other day I was like, how do you make chicken soup? Like, how do you make it from scratch? And she's like, just come over and I'll teach you. So my mother's still teaching me stuff.

Yes.

So I'm a phone call away, but the goal is life skills. I want him to be independent. I want to give him boundaries and freedom, and I think that's a huge balance. I still want him to know, you know, I don't mean to jump to being clear with our expectations—

very clear—

but we need to be very clear about our boundaries. Yes. We have noticed with Max that you have to be super specific or you, you know, you didn't say it wasn't a— it was a rule, right?

So gray area.

So no drugs, no drinking, no smoking, no vaping, no drinking and driving, follow the rules of the road. Like, we're very clear with our boundaries, but we also give him a ton of freedom, right?

Trust until they hopefully never give you a reason not to.

So, when Ella and I were discussing this, our daughter who's 14, she said that obviously this applies to Max, but she said some kids need stricter rules.

Correct.

And if Max shows us through his behavior that he needs stricter rules, then we tighten up.

Yes.

But as he proves that we can be flexible and we can open our reins, then he gets more and more freedom if he keeps proving through his behaviors and his grades that he deserves it, right?

Right.

You agree?

I, I agree.

So freedom's a freedom example of something that we do differently, and we've never discussed this. It's a school night, he's at a friend's house watching a football game. We don't say you need to be home at 10:00 or 9:00 or whatever. You come home when you come home, and guess what? You're going to get up tired and you're going to go to school. So he knows he's going to be tired, He comes home when he comes home. If it was a habit every night, we'd have a problem. But we're not like, "It's a school night, you have to come home." He's watching a football game.

Right, we didn't say, "Are you leaving? It ended 2 seconds ago." Right, yes.

Like, I— right, exactly. I didn't like know when he was coming home. And I wasn't like, "You have to be home at 10 o'clock." Right. And he was tired the next day, so he's learning.

Yes.

They're learning. So we're very specific with our boundaries and our expectations. But we also know that he's going to make mistakes, and I feel like we need to give him room to make mistakes.

Yep.

And we all learn from our mistakes. So I see him stumble sometimes, and I see him have issues, and I see him have problems. And then my goal as a mother to a 17-year-old, which is very different than to an 11-year-old—

yeah—

is I want to see him work it out. Like, I literally watch him think it through.

Yes.

And I watch him talk to himself about it and talk to me about it, and I don't necessarily say a word. I don't know about you. I think he comes to you more with computer issues, so it's probably a different situation.

Yes, I don't get a lot of the other stuff.

So if you're helping him with a computer issue, is he figuring it out or is he help— asking you for help?

Yes and yes.

So Max works for Seth.

Yes.

So it's complicated. So we've got Dad Seth.

Yep.

And we've got like kind of Boss Seth.

True.

So we've got—

I am his boss, right?

So you want to see him trying to work things out on his own, but you know that he still needs our guidance.

Very true. Although in a lot of ways he is smarter than I am.

So if he's having a computer issue, can you help him?

Um, sometimes I can help and sometimes I can brainstorm with him and sometimes I can refer him to someone else I know who might be able to help.

So does he talk to other people about issues?

Yes, he talks to other people who work for me.

Wow, I don't think I knew that part.

Yes.

Max is constantly on the computer for school, for work, for for fun.

Yep.

So he works so hard and so many hours, so it feels wonderful right now to hear him upstairs screaming with his friends on the computer.

Gaming. Yes, as opposed to work.

I love that he's gaming. I love that he's having fun. But I will tell you, this kid does hours and hours of homework and is so responsible, which is why we have loosened.

Yes.

Don't you agree? 100%.

If he's proven so far that— so far it's so good.

So if his grades were different, we'd have—

there'd be a lot less freedom.

Or if he wasn't getting things done, or if his teachers were complaining, yes, our conversation would look very different.

Yes.

So we continue to loosen, and as Lily said in her card, her birthday card, which is very beautiful, yes, but did you hear the line of our last year with you?

I did.

And how did you feel about that line?

I might have heard some sniffles coming from the other room.

So in our last year with him, we will continue to loosen because he's gonna be on it.

He's gonna have his own rules in a year, right?

He's gonna be off at school somewhere.

Yep.

And we're not gonna be there.

We can only hope we raised him right.

So we want to see him doing things here. Yes. And being able to do things on his own here so that he can practice before he goes out into the world.

Yes.

And college isn't really the real world, but it's a step to the real world.

It is a definite step.

Which brings me to college.

Yes.

So, are you rubbing my back for college? I am. So college is on my list of parenting max.

Yes.

And helping him pick a college and touring a college.

Yes.

And parenting looks very different at 17 when most of the conversations are about college.

Most of the time, yes.

That's what he wants to talk about.

Number one topic of conversation.

That's what he wants to talk about. He comes to us all the time with college questions. And, and, and the sneaky thing that he did— I can't imagine where he got this from.

Thanks, honey. I love you too.

You know I'm right though. I know it's not about being right, it's about being married, people.

It's not about Yeah, but you seem to have more priorities on what's you being right right now.

No, not at all. Not at all. Um, I'm literally joking.

He—

Max thinks he's funny every time he brings up Corey wants him to go to UVA. I don't think that's honestly—

it is not on his list.

So Max thinks he's funny every time he brings up Berkeley because he's trying to push my buttons, and he's even admitted to me that he's trying to push my buttons. I don't think he's gonna go to Berkeley. Berkeley is in California across—

we're even letting him apply.

Um, It's across the country from us. We're in Buffalo, New York. So he thinks he's funny, and I think he thinks he's softening the blow of when he brings up his dream school, that his dream school is only 8 hours— only, only 8 hours away. And I'm like, how about if you pick a school that's like 3 hours away? How about we do that? Okay, so Parenting Max, lots of college conversations. Lots of college guidance. He probably asks you a heck of a lot more than he asks me.

He does.

Um, what, what kind of questions is he asking you?

Um, admissions rates, test scores, grades, essay application questions. We have run the financial numbers many times.

You have? You and Max?

I have run them for him, yes, several times.

Okay, but we're going to talk about this later.

Yes.

So Seth is the FAFSA—

college financial aid. I own a college financial aid company.

Yes. So all of those parents who tell me that they don't know how to fill out the FAFSA, Seth is your man.

And the CSS Profile, which is for private school.

And there's two forms. Yes. And, and in my world, in my mother world of all the mothers, yes. They're all talking about all the rules changing.

They all changed December 31st, less than a month ago.

So people are up, up in arms.

Doing a webinar about this tomorrow night.

Oh, during the chorus concert.

I was sched— you— well, there was a snow day. I was scheduled to attend the chorus concert last Thursday, and then the snow moved it to this Thursday, and then they asked me if I could attend.

The joys of schedules with 5 people. So let's finish this. Yes, we're, we're not focused here. So parenting Max, parenting teenagers, but especially Max, is— I don't know if you realize this, but I'm trying to keep the lines of communication open, respectful, and non-judgmental. Have you noticed that?

I think you've done a great job with that.

I'm really—

he feels like he can come to us and come to you, like he's not afraid of, you know, getting judged.

I don't know, he might be afraid of my reaction, which I've worked on.

You've definitely gotten better.

I think before awareness was here, I might have had more emotions talking to him. And then he said to me one day, um, what did he say to me? Do you remember the line that he gave me? It was like, um, you'll, you'll get too emotional.

Yes.

Oh, we were in the car, and you know, driving with a teenager is when most of it comes out. They're facing forward, they're not looking at you, and it's easier for everything to just spew out of them is what I have found. And it was like he told me about someone in his life at school, like I don't know if it was a girl conversation or a friend conversation, and I was like, how come you didn't tell me this? And he was like, because you get so like invested and so like emotional about things. And I was like, intense person. And I was like, okay. I was like, so you know, as a therapist, I was like, let's do some self-check and self-awareness of what your child needs from you. And as much as I want to be true to who I am, I can't like change who I am. I can try to give him calmer responses so that he is more encouraged to talk to me. So like, if your son is going to talk to you about a girl, you're not going to be like, oh, what is this? There's a girl that you like? Like, no. They're never gonna talk.

You might have discovered that that didn't work.

You're never— they're never gonna— I, I don't think I ever exactly did that, but maybe, maybe a little something close.

So in the past, once upon a time.

So I have learned two really keys to getting him to talk to me. Key number one is to tone down my emotions. He likes calmness.

Figuring out where I am.

It's hard from backwards, right? Okay, he likes calmness and, um, there was a second part to that— non-reactiveness. Oh, I know the other, the other part. The other part is that no pressure, like casual, no pressure. Like if he's not going to talk to me at 8 o'clock tonight, at 9:30 he may— nope, at 11 o'clock, knock on the door. PM, he's gonna start talking to me, and I'm gonna listen, and I'm gonna show him that he's important and that I want to hear what he has to say, even if I'm falling asleep.

Yeah.

And I'm gonna be non-judgmental because I want him to talk to me about, you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. You know what I mean?

Yes.

So, so yeah, I'm learning what works with Max that is not the same with Ella and Lily.

Yeah.

And what else, Seth? What else? Where's my list?

Uh, one of your favorite lines that I really like is that we grow up with our kids.

Yes.

I thought— I never thought of it that way, and I thought that was beautifully put.

You love that I wrote that, and, and you tell myself that often. You do? Yes. So how come that helps you?

Um, because I'm realizing that we're learning and growing as they're learning and growing.

Well, and we're learning that parenting a 17-year-old is different than parenting an 11-year-old. Who just walked into the room.

Yes.

And looks very differently. So we change and grow with them.

Yes.

So that was very helpful for me. I think that I realized, you know, as I was writing about this, I realized that the mom who gave birth 17 years ago is vastly different than the mom today.

Yep.

Very, very different. And sometimes I get sad because You know, and I corrected myself when I had this thought, but I got really sad today because I was like, oh my God, if I could go back 17 years ago, I would do so much better. Like, I know so much more. I would do so much better. I would be such a better mom. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I started to think about like the sleepless nights and just trying to survive. And I was like, you know what, you did a really good job. Like, stop being so hard on yourself.

Pretty amazing. Well, the best you could with what you had at the time, and it turns out to be pretty darn good.

I think that's part of why my mom loves being a grandma, because she has told me so many times that it's like a redo and she gets to do things again without the sleep deprivation and the diaper changes.

Well, some of them.

How many times did I call her to come save me?

So yes, but it's still less than—

she got to go home and go to sleep. Yes.

Yes.

And then the next morning I would be like, I didn't sleep at all, you have to come over. And she would be like, I have to go to work, silly lady. And I was like, why do you work? Come help me. But she would show up after work. Yes, she would show up after work. So I know that relationships are super important, and I want us to model our marital relationship for him so that I'm more conscious of it because I want him to go out into the world and have good relationships.

Yes.

And I want him to see how we work with— how we have relationships with work people and friends and family members. And I'm conscious of the fact that he's going to be doing these relationship things without us.

Yeah.

And I want us to be a good example. And we're not perfect, but we don't need to be perfect because he needs to see flaws too.

Yes.

And conflict.

Yes.

So, um, I pay attention a lot, and I just kind of— I don't even do a verbal check-in. I think we definitely need to do verbal check-ins with our kids, like, how are you doing? And, um, you know, just mentally, mental health, we want to like pay attention to like I pay attention to, is he spending time with friends? Is he— does he have healthy outlets? Is he still working out? Um, he doesn't play football right now, so I want to make sure he's still physically active and getting his stress out.

Yeah, they start up again after midterms, I would imagine, right? Morning.

I would imagine that football workouts are coming, and I just want to make sure, you know, I watch him. We got to watch our kids for what we're concerned about for the particular kid. And my concern with Max— you are gonna laugh— is that he works constantly. So I will check in with him and I will say, how about if you plan something fun? And he'll say, Mom, this is fun.

And then you're like, no, no, no, you got to do something else. Go bowling.

I'm like— and I'm like, I'm I'm so glad that the research that you're doing is so exciting for you. I'm so happy for you. But no, I want you to plan something like with your friends in person. Yes, not on the computer. I, I don't want you to just go to school and work after school. I want you to actually go out and do something. And he doesn't always agree, but I do check in with him.

Yep.

So how are our— how are are kids coping and what coping skills do we see them using. And we don't want to see them using drugs, alcohol, vaping, right? So constructive outlets, constructive coping skills. So that is parenting Max right now in a nutshell. Yes, I'm sure I forgot a lot, but that was my summary of right now. It'll be interesting to check in with all of you in a year from now when he's 18, because it's gonna look really different. Yeah, right.

Let's see. Yeah, well, we should probably know where he's going, going to college by then.

Are you gonna know? Are we gonna know in January?

Um, we might not have financial— it depends on the way the government is doing the forms right now. So kids this year don't know yet. Kids next year, if they go back to the October deadline, they might.

Okay, well, we have two children looking for us right now, so I would like to tell you that on Friday I have Coach Claire on the podcast, and the topic is Help Me Save My Broken Marriage. So you do not have to have a broken marriage to learn from her, but her marriage was broken and she saved her marriage and then went out into the world to help other people. So you're gonna love her and you're gonna learn from her. And happy birthday to Max today!

Happy birthday!

And thank you for joining us. And anything else?

Uh, get the— ask Rebecca for a link to the Whiny Palooza newsletter. Come join the Whiny Palooza Moms group. It's a free group on Facebook of supportive moms helping lift each other up.

Thank you everyone. Have a wonderful week.

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