Episode 370: Master Emotional Intelligence at Home

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No need to whine and whine.

Welcome to the Winey Palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Greene. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Greene for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am super excited today because I get to talk to Dr. Jenny Wu. Jenny, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Absolutely, Rebecca. Thank you so much for having me.

She is a remarkable woman, and I want to tell you about her. She— you should be shaking. Yes. So Dr. Jennie Woo is a Harvard-trained educator and emotional intelligence researcher, founder and CEO of Mind Brain Emotion. Why do I feel like that's a tongue twister for me? She has developed award-winning card games and mental health tools to help kids and adults build essential human skills. Dr. Woo has been featured in CNBC, Fast Company, Forbes, and more, and offers practical insights on emotional intelligence, mental health, and parenting. I, I have been so excited to talk to her. I'm so glad she's here with us. And I really wanna start with asking you, tell us about your journey to founding Mind Brain Emotion? I mean, that sounds amazing.

Yeah. Well, you know, to be honest, here's my confession, right? If you ask me what I was going to do pre-kids, it would not be like this. I had no idea. There was no planning, no roadmap. And, and so let me share with you the journey. And, you know, I really started with developing adults, and I, and I actually had no idea that I was going to want to develop children. And so started in leadership consulting, management consulting, working in larger companies with leaders and, you know, having my heels on and feeling professional, right? And but then on the side, I was also working as a personal fitness trainer just because I really enjoy the mind-body connection of helping people to be their best both inside and outside of work, professionally, personally. And Smooth journey, great, right? And then met my husband and we had our first child, and that's when everything just went upside down. You know how it is, Rebecca, right? Yes. And so, yeah, so this entire time, time I had been teaching people, you know, how to be composed, finesse your emotions, lead your team, and here I am, I couldn't even lead a little unit of our family. And I was, you know, I was whining, I was kicking and screaming, and I was just looking around going, what the heck is going on? I am on this emotional roller coaster and I cannot get off. And I have no idea, like, everything I've taught and supported others, I'm not practicing it. And so then, just to sort of, you know, I think it's interesting how fate has has such a sense of humor. And so we got pregnant again, and this time with twins.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah, yeah. And so, so then after giving birth, we had 3 kids under 3, all in diapers. So that just hammers it home, right?

Oh my gosh, that's a lot. That is a lot.

That when it rains, it pours. And, and to be honest, you know, it's all great, amazing blessings that I'm, I'm so grateful for, right? But it's, it's very, you know, real, and it just teaches me front and center how important these skills are, not just professionally, again, personally and as a parent now. And so that's where, you know, and my twins were preemies, so I, you know, ended up leaving my career. So this journey I had in mind was no longer, and to care for the twins, and it was really from there I then became a Montessori school director when it was time for my kids to go to preschool. And being the most practical person, I'm here in Southern California. Cost of living, especially childcare, is astronomical, right? So what does a practical mom do? She gets a job as their school director.

Perfect, right?

I'm like, free tuition. I can pivot myself, use my transferable skills. Right. Um, and I don't know if you can hear my dog in the background.

Oh, mine is somewhere around here. Don't even worry about it.

Exactly right. So I've got 3 kids plus a dog.

It's a normal mom house, right?

Right, exactly. Um, so, so yeah, so it was really being in, you know, in the school setting looking at, you know, kids and adults and honestly seeing some tantrums not only from kids but from parents. And that's when a hot light bulb came on and I was like, why does this look so familiar to me? Where have I seen this before? And that's when I realized I had been experiencing these type of tantrums from leaders when I worked in the corporate world, right? And in those cases, I realized the higher up you go, the older you get, the stakes are higher that you're not impacting only yourself but those around you, right? Toxic workplace, toxic household, it really impacts everyone involved. And so it encouraged me to really understand, well, how do you really practice emotional intelligence and these sets of social skills, right? Competence, interpersonal skills, and your emotion regulation. So, so yeah, so being the role model that I really tried to be, um, when it was time for my oldest to attend grade school, um, I decided, you know what, I'm going to go back to school with my kids. And so, um, had the privilege of being accepted to Harvard Graduate School of Education in a full-time program for master's. Amazing, right? I was like, so, but by then I was 35 years old. And so here I am going, hmm, should I do it? I'm a little, you know, mature for this. Yes, right? But why not? Why not? Um, so, so yeah, so, um, ended up taking that program, and that's really where it launched my journey and really building practical materials and resources to help us parents, teachers, and kids to develop emotional intelligence. You know how it is, we're so busy, we can't read another book, and even Even if we do, like, how are we gonna practice these things that are, you know, said in the book? It always sounds good on paper, right? And then in real life, things break down. And so I was trying to figure out, like, how do I create better practical bite-sized resources that are actionable? And this is just kind of, you know, living my own life, my own struggle, and trying to figure it out all in real time.

Sounds like an amazing journey. I love where it has taken you. And you did this a little bit, but, and I, and I hope that they caught it, but for our listeners, can you define for them exactly what emotional intelligence is?

Yeah. So in a nutshell, emotional intelligence is really our ability to recognize, understand, and manage our own emotions and those of others, and to use those to manage ultimately our relationship with others. It's that simple. And being intelligent about your emotions is knowing how to make your emotions work for you and not against you.

Ah, it sounds so easy when you say it. So let's, so let's talk about this because we, you and I know this is not easy. So as a parent, I wanna be a really good role model for my kids with this. So can we talk about how we can model? What can we do as parents to show this to our kids? Can we start there?

Absolutely. And you know, one of the misconception about that is I gotta be perfect, right? Mm-hmm. I have to have my emotions in control. There is no screaming, yelling, and tantrum fitting from me, right? And how is that even possible, right? Um, it's just like, honestly, as Susan David, which is an amazing psychologist out of Harvard, said, you know, these are dead person's goals. Like, we are humans. Emotions are what makes us human. And, you know, it's messy, it's chaotic. But first of all, it's really level setting our expectations that we are going to make mistakes. It's like you said, it's not easy, right? But how do we role model it? So we role model it, the fact that it is not easy embracing it, but it— a lot of the times it's what do you do to repair a relationship, right? When that uneasiness, that chaos comes on. But it's also, yes, being proactive and working on yourself ahead of time and asking, checking in with your child of, you know, how are you feeling? And by the way, this is how I'm feeling right now. I feel like a volcano is going to erupt, so I'm gonna remove myself and give myself 5 minutes of just quiet time. It could be in the closet so no one else can see, right? Not even my dog scratching on that door.

Yes, right.

Um, so it's about being proactive, but it's also about, you know, like just Being honest with yourself, with your expectations, and with others. Always checking in to see, like, how am I feeling, right? Do I have my grumpy pants on? Do I have a lot of hot— those glowing hot red buttons that are just waiting to be pressed by my partner, you know, by my kids, that it gives me an excuse to just blow up, right? So it's being self-aware, which is the foundational skill set into emotional intelligence.

I love that. And I love that you literally brought tears to my eyes because I do think our expectations are out of control of ourselves. We think we need to be this perfect packaged mother for our kids, and that's so unrealistic.

Yeah, it's so unrealistic. And, you know, some of— one of the latest trends that I've been seeing and asked to speak on and just kind of comment on a lot is the sense of parenting styles. For some reason, like, it's great, you know, we want to be— have that style where we're conscious, you know, of our emotions and we are firm but nurturing, right? But I also see this trend of, you know, where we tend to box ourselves in, like, I am this kind of parent, this is how I need to be, this is who I am, and just that unnecessary stress and pressure that we put ourselves.

Yes.

Right?

Yes. And if we stopped doing that, we would be better parents.

Exactly. And you know what? We judge ourselves because of those labels. And of course, we judge other people, whether directly, indirectly. Right? It's just we're human. It all comes down to that. Right?

And so are our children. And I think we need to remember that, that our children are also human beings. On, I want to help my kids have a strong emotional intelligence, and I want them, you know, the parents listening whose kids are tiny, like, how do we start it? How do we start helping them from tiny ages so that it grows into really good skills?

Yeah, I love your point about little humans. That is so important. And like you said, yeah, especially for the parents with little humans who's only been you know, here on Earth for 3 years or even 2 years, right? There's a lot of stuff to learn and discover, not just about their environments and others, but within themselves. And that's how you start with building upon that building block of emotional intelligence, is helping them to get the language to express themselves, right? So especially in toddlers and little guys, little girls, they are throwing tantrum because they don't know how to express themselves properly, right? They want to say, "I'm feeling tired," or, "I'm feeling lonely because you are on that phone and not looking at me." And so, right, they don't have the verbal literacy. I call these emotional literacy skills to express it articulately, and they are incredibly impatient, right? So what do they do? They throw a tantrum at the most inconvenient time, at the most public place that you can think of, right? Because you're busy with something else. You're grocery shopping, you're talking to another mom, right? It is so hard. So the first step is to role model those language. Break it down in age-appropriate ways, as simple as you can. I'm happy, I'm sad, I'm tired, you know, and progressively progressively as you get tweens and teens to layer on more vocabulary. So that's really also where the role modeling comes on, and also labeling, calling out for them, right? And then if you— obviously, it's also reading social cues. Help them to read your social cues and their own social cue. When they are doing parallel play at the beginning, they're not noticing anything. They're playing themselves, right? But when it comes to sharing on playground and just sit with them and say, you know, what's that kid doing? Is that kid's shoulders slumped? Does that kid look happy or sad? You know, you can even do it with your stuffed animals or with, you know, like a beat-up furniture that's left, you know, on the sidewalk. How is that furniture feeling, right? And so, you know, and one thing I want to emphasize is that, again, like we're not making them perfect and trying to get them to, you know, ace the emotional intelligence test, or, you know, that kind of stuff, right? It's, it's also about recovering, right? Recovering and repairing. They are human. They're gonna make mistakes. The mistakes are good. That's honestly how you learn. And so it's from these mistakes you make teachable moments of not, again, not judging, right? You're yourself, your child. Oh my God, you look like a fool. I look like a crazy, like, you know, unattentive parent or horrible parent. It's not about that. It's using those opportunities to teach the child, you know, now that you've calmed down, what just happened? Wow, that was, that was crazy. Did you feel your heartbeat? Like, I was— my palms were sweating. Why is that? Right? You know, teaching them how they're feeling in their bodies so that they can be more and more proactive rather than reactive to, you know, a volcano eruption.

Oh my goodness. So many— so much good stuff in what you're saying. I mean, I'm thinking about how it's inevitable that our kids are going to get emotional and maybe say something that they regret. We're going to do the same thing. And I love that you're talking about when the storm calms down is when we talk and repair and discuss. And I think there's so much to learn at that point.

Yeah, yeah. Again, level set our expectations. In the middle of a storm, nothing quite is getting heard or you could be expressing, right? It's just not productive. So let the storm pass, be with the storm and let it pass. Right. And I have to say, Rebecca Greene, so yes, it's how you— what you do afterwards and apologizing, making amends is a huge thing. Right. And so as sort of the sneaky educator that I am, the people developer. So here's what I did with my kids. These are all really life skills essentially, right? Life skills of how do you be a good person, good human, how do you apologize, how do you have empathy, right?

Yes.

Um, and so what I did was, um, I just for fun started making these little YouTube clips. And why YouTube? Well, because my kids are now at an age where they watch YouTube videos, right? So I'm like, You know, you, you're watching that Minecraft influencer, right? But can you maybe, you know, channel your own energy? Maybe you can be an influencer. And this is how corny and cheesy it is. I said, you can be an influencer of life skills, right? Um, we are all learning this together. You're learning, but why don't we help other kids learn? And how cool would it, would it be for kids to hear from other kids, not yet another adult, right? And so we started recording these like literally 3-minute, 4-minute, 5-minute videos on these life skills. And what do I do? I give the life skills, because I've got 3 kids to spread, right? I give the life skills that a particular kid needs to work on the most, right? So I'm like, oh, you know, so-and-so, why don't you do how to apologize? And he's like, Is it because I, you know, I do these things to my siblings? I'm like, well, yeah, you are smart, but we knew this. Oh, thank you. So practical, right? So smart. And just you as a parent, you know, like you're busy. You have to figure out how to honestly like hit multiple birds with the stone, right? And that's what I was trying to do. But I figured, you know, it's a great way to help our kids learn in real time, learn on the go through actions and through helping others. And guess what happens next time when he has a sibling bickering? I just point to that video and say, "Watch your own video," right?

So smart. Well, and you know, as you're talking, when I talk to my kids, I'm like, I'm teaching you this not just for us in our house, but for your friends, for— you're going to be married one day, you need to be able to apologize to your spouse, right? So what you're teaching them goes with like every relationship.

Absolutely. It takes a village, and it's really about human relationship, that connection that help us thrive. And we— right, so important. And as parents, like you said, we just, we wish that they have that supportive teacher, right, that if they start dating, good healthy dating relationships, right?

Yes, yes.

So we are contributing to that, right, to help them be the participatory motivated student, the supportive partner, and also, you know, these sets of emotional intelligence skills as you get more complicated is also about learning how not to get manipulated. And as simple as, you know, what do you do with peer pressure, right? What do you do when you're feeling FOMO, when you want to do that thing too, even though in the back of your head, you know that maybe it's not the sensible thing to do, right? Yeah. So these are such important skills that not only impact ourselves, but really everybody around us.

So true. And I'm staring at the beautiful— I'm going to guess that's your card game behind you.

Is that what that is? Yes.

And it's beautiful and it's colorful and I want to talk about it. Can you tell us? It's award-winning. Tell us about this card game and what it is and how we can use it.

Sure. So there are 12 different card decks. And so, yeah, so each card deck helps you work on a specific skill and it's age, you know, developmentally friendly. So for example, Social Skills. I have a deck for 5 to 9 years old, and then it levels up to Social Situations, which is more 3rd to 6th grade, and Social Dilemmas for middle schoolers. And then there's also ones on, you know, how to build good relationships, how to have conversations, how to think critically about what's happening around you, um, and even interview skills and gratitude skills. And so the cards are really simple because they're essentially playing poker cards. So you can play Go Fish, Crazy Eights, anything you already do, but there's directions on the specific game that you're playing, how you win, and how you build into it. But on each card, there are either prompts, right, like icebreaker prompts, or specific actionable exercises. That you do. So for example, I have a deck on coping skills for kids. So, so, and the coping skills are aligned with the social scenarios that we have in the social skills. So when, say, it's your first day of school, you are feeling like you don't know anybody during recess, what do you do, you know, when you see someone or two people playing on the field, you know, what do you do, what do you say, what can you do. So that deck has an online learning library where it literally, for each scenario on the card, it gives you response guide, like almost like a curriculum of social scripts of what you can say, social actions, what you can do, and the follow-up questions and topics you can do. It's all included in the deck. But the coping skills give you exercises of how do you get yourself out of the comfort zone. So you may do this, like, say, this one exercise on that card It takes 2 minutes. It helps you build courage, right? And then you take a deep breath and you go and execute that action to make friends. So it's kind of— it works sort of like that. Yeah.

I mean, it's amazing that you developed this. And the frustrating thing for me is that I want to see this taught in school. You know, like we talk about math and English and science and social studies and blah, blah, blah. I know it's important. I want to see classes that are required in this. This is life skills. Skills that I'm so much more concerned with my kids learning.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know what really surprised me after I created these decks? They were really for parents. Because I figured, you know, teachers know these things, or they'll just maybe weave it in, or I would think teachers have no time, you know, they— some are teaching to the test, to the specific curriculum, there's just no time, and teachers are stressed But what really surprised me, especially after Harvard University, like, featured my work and the deck, that I started to get emails from teachers literally all around the world, from the continents of Africa, Australia. It's just, it baffles my mind. And these are teachers and psychologists and therapists. They're emailing me and saying, wow, I use this in my circle time, or I believe in this so much. We need it so much in schools and, and, you know, things like that that I was like, again, total surprise. Like, wow. I thought one, honestly, okay, here's my truth. I thought teachers had it together, especially psychologists, right? But they're like, you know what? It's so overwhelming in the classrooms in the moment. I have nothing to say. I can't think of anything because there's so many things, which is entirely true. And they're like, your cards are so easy. The suits are categorized by emotional intelligence skills. The, you know, Ace, Two, Three, Four, those are levels of difficulty. So I literally could just pull a card, curate it, know exactly what, you know, the level difficulty, what I'm talking about, and just lead a discussion or transition or a brain break or with the kids, you know, build it as a writing journaling prompt. Right. So, so what really surprised me and honestly, it's what keeps me going both as a parent and an educator is that these are such viable, practical, affordable tools for the school setting so that this enables our teachers. Like you said, our kids need to learn these important life skills, right? And sometimes they don't listen to us, so we need as many adults in their lives to teach them. And so, yes, yeah, so, so, so it's sort of, again, it's like my own like struggle and need so that Now they can use the cards also in, in the clubs and, you know, after-school leadership development to use it very seamlessly in a non-threatening manner to get our kids to start practicing these skills in real time.

Yes, because every single one of us needs lots and lots of practice.

Yes, it's all about the practice.

Yes, and, you know, I really want Everybody listening wants really resilient kids. We want our kids to go through an emotionally difficult situation and come out resilient. So can you talk about that and how we can help them?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I have to say, this reminds me back when we were talking about the parenting styles. So one of the parenting styles is— well, actually, like, 2 or 3. There's the helicopter parents, right? And there's the snowplow parents. And I also call it the lawnmower parents. So these are the parents that, you know, in order to help their kids be successful, they miss out on the resiliency part because they are literally removing all the obstacles out of the way, paving that way, mowing, you know, the like blade cutting the grass, right, in order for the kids to not feel those emotions, right? Not make those mistakes and get ahead. And that is absolutely wrong. So how do we actually build our kids' resiliency is, is not coddling them. It's really allowing them to experience their choices and make their mistakes. And I know it's so hard as a parent to sit back than doing something, right? To watch a mini train wreck. But you have to think, you know, like, the stakes— how high are the stakes, right? If they don't turn in that homework because they procrastinated or because they didn't have the courage to go ask for help from their teachers, right? What are the stakes, you know? Or rather, like, if you help them, you're always the tutor, right? Or you're nudging them to do certain things. They'll never learn what it actually feels like and what they actually need to do to not feel that feeling again of humiliation, embarrassment, right? Remorsefulness, um, regret. And so that's ironically what we can do or really not do to help kids build skills, those skills, right? And it's also about, um, increasing their, the tools that they have, coping skills and their toolbox, right? So helping them brainstorm, you know, how can you feel better in this situation? Could you talk to someone? You know, for those as they get older, they're more drawn to peer relationships. So could you talk to a reliable friend, see what's going on, you know, get some feedback? Right? That's seeking for help. Those help-seeking behaviors are really important and also relationship interpersonal skills. But then there's also coping skills of, you know, when you're not feeling great, or is there a song, you know, that cheers you up? Can you put a playlist together of the type of song that will pump you up versus the type of song when you're you know, when you want to calm down and listen to. So it's really practical ways of just broadening out the way they can cope with different situations, whether it's problem solving or dealing with their emotions, turning it up, turning it down, working with others, resolving conflicts. Things around that would be great to help them build resilience because resilience is not just, oh, I don't feel anything. I am strong and tough. Nothing can get to me. That's not true, right? Again, not robot, not dead people. We do feel stuff. And the more we suppress the— you know, it's like, imagine, like, when we suppress an emotion, it's like we are literally having one hand on this buoy in the water and just pushing it down with our mind, keeping that bad, supposedly ugly feeling down so that it doesn't surface. Right. And that's tiring. And we're one arm short. Right.

Yes.

So that's not what we're trying to teach. We're trying to teach, well, how do we resolve this? How do we ultimately feel better and solve this problem? So that's how you build resilience.

Oh, I love all of that. And I love that you're telling us not to do things.

Right.

A lot of things.

We are the mama doers. That's what mama bears are. Yes.

Oh, yes. I'm like, let me save you.

Yeah, I know, right? So now I'm like, oh, this reminds me, I should just put it on a Post-it. Just put, do nothing.

I know. It's, you know, it's— I heard my 11-year-old talking to her friend on the phone. I was like, just let them figure it out. Walk away, walk away, they'll figure it out.

Yep, exactly. Yeah, it's, you know, like we are— well, I am a bit of a control freak, especially before kids, and that really accentuates. But honestly, you know how it is having 3 kids, you just, you can't do it all. And some, to be honest, for me and my personality, Somehow having 3 kids is actually better for me than having 1. Can you imagine that poor, like, only child?

Right? Oh my gosh.

I've thought of that.

I relate to you so much. I have thought of that.

So I'm like, thank you. Thank you for giving me 3 kids.

Yes. Oh my gosh. All of my stuff onto 1 child. I would feel very bad for that one child.

Yes. Yes, exactly.

Oh my gosh. So, so I want to talk a little bit about marriage and parenting together and having emotional intelligence between each other. So can you give us some pointers with our spouses to have maybe some better emotional intelligence with each other?

Yes, absolutely. Oh my gosh. Um, so I get asked this a lot, and most recently it was really, um, triangulating this and the topic of patience, because you are running out of patience with your kids. And at the end of the day, how do you even save up some patience with your significant other? Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Because, because we sometimes don't snap at our kids, but at the end of the day, again, our spouse gently just nudged that hot red glowing red button that, you know, we have all over our body by the end of the day. And we're like, what? Um, so it's very hard, right? Um, and so one thing, again, going back is— I sort of step back— is, you know, you want to think about like, what kind of family are you? Are you a kid-focused family, a parent-focused family, or a family-focused family? And so it's about priorities. It's about pacing yourself too, right? Knowing that, you know, you're not just a mom, but you're also a partner, right? And so those hold equal weight. And sometimes one end sacrifices and vice versa. That's just how it is. And so being emotionally intelligent to your partner is, again, it goes to active listening and communications. When you're suppressing, you know, a pet peeve that you have, you know, maybe your partner consecutively did not wash those dishes, did not clean up after themselves. You're like, oh my God, I'm a kid— I'm a parent to like 4 kids, you know? That's how it is, right?

Right, right.

Um, so then we start to talk to ourselves in our heads. We feel resentful, we feel bitter, incredibly bitter. Um, you know, and I would say especially for the stay-at-home moms, you do so much. At one point, I was a stay-at-home mom to care for my preemie twins, and I know how it is where you just, you're like, I should be doing this because I'm a stay-at-home mom, you know. But, but sometimes you really feel like you're getting taken advantage of, right? Because you do so much and you're not getting that recognition. Um, and so, so yeah, so we start to have these little self-talk voices feeling very helpless, trapped, and victimized. And so, you know, it really— it just— this dialogue just escalates in your head, and then, and then bam, it comes out. So it's about active communication, using the I statement to help your partner know and stay on track with exactly how you're feeling. Again, before that volcano eruption, right? So, so what I do with my significant other is that we do allocate time to just vent, decompress. We could be venting about our kids, right? So now it's us versus them. It gives you a sense of community.

Yes, for sure. Yes, yes.

Um, so you gotta, you know, you just sometimes you just have to vent you know, and, and it helps you, um, to— at least both of you guys are feeling the same way, on the same page. And it's also just checking in with each other. How are you feeling? And honestly, it's about being gentle with each other. You guys, again, on the same team. You need a team member. It's so hard to do this on your own, you know, so, so hard. And I I have so much respect for, um, single parents and co-parents, right? Um, but it's in your best interest to have a good relationship to stay on track, right? Your emotional toll just alleviates so much when you don't have to think about all those other noises and things. So you want to be proactive, you want to schedule in, you know, date nights or 5-minute date in the backyard if you can, you know, just one-on-one eye contact time, not sitting side by side scrolling your phone, occasionally talking and chatting. That's— you want attention, you know, shower that attention to each other and having that type of empathy for each other and what they're going through. And sometimes what your partner might say, and this— there's a lot of friction also around parenting style of between the partners, right? Why might I be the good cop, the bad cop, that kind of thing, right? So it's also about getting it out in the open, acknowledge, you know, other people's preferences. Sometimes you just have to work around it, or other times you can really do some change management work and be like, well, this is— here's what I think, here's some, you know, this expert I follow says, and here's, you know, I tried this, it didn't work, can we try You know, you have to be on the same page and how you communicate to your kids, how you role model, and how you talk to each other.

I mean, you just said so many amazing things. I took lots of notes in my brain. I should have written it down. And it's funny, you say things that my husband says to me. He will say, I'm on your team. He has said that to me when I look very angry and I'm not angry at him. He just says I'm angry near him and he wants to make sure that I know that I'm not angry at him. And there was something else you said that he says to me. If you would have just said it like this, it would have been so easy. Like, I will, I will help you and do whatever you need. Can you just be nice about it?

Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yes. Our husbands are very much alike. Mine is very like even keel and cool and practical where I'm sort of like the I forget there's a term for it and this like framework, but I'm up and down, you know, my highs are high and my lows are low.

Yes, right.

And he like, even if I have a little low on my spectrum of low is not that low, he thinks I'm really low and my highs are to him really high. And I'm like, but I'm not snapping at you. It's just that's how I sound like. That doesn't pass with him.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, I understand. Yes, yes, yes. But you're right.

Right. He says I'm I'm on your team. And I love that your husband is checking in with you and just to make sure, are you mad at me? Right. It's a great thing. Great questions. And sometimes when I get worked up myself, it's hard. Right. And so one thing my husband used to say, I think not so much now because now I think I've matured. He used to say, he's like, like, you know, I'm your biggest cheerleader.

Yes, they are.

Yes, I am your fan. I'm on your side. And I'm like, oh yeah, I should be kinder. I should be kinder to you.

Oh my gosh, you know, I think about that all the time. He is the most important person in my life. I need to make him feel that way. And Sometimes, like you said, I'm human. Sometimes I do a great job and sometimes I don't.

Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's about repairing and reconnecting.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

And, you know, just to, like, fast forward because we're in the middle of this, we've got, like, kids and little, right? It's hard to think, like, how life might be after kids. But here's the thing. You know, I also get people who are so overly involved with their kids that after they're empty nesters, I literally have parents come to me and be like, who am I now? I know, what do I do? Right? Yeah. So it's also being emotionally intelligent with yourself of building your own identity, discovering yourself, having new journeys, right? Pivoting. And also being kind and good with your partner because you're going to be stuck with your partner after you're empty nesters. And you're liberated. You could travel and do all the things you had done pre-kids, right? So now is the time to also lay the foundation for that.

Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I mean, you've said so many wonderful things. I've asked you so many things. I mean, is there anything that you think that I may have missed that you want to share?

Oh my gosh. Honestly, you know, I think we— I love our conversation and I think it's important to have that mindset of like an abundance mindset than scarcity, scarcity mindset. We're always going to be, you know, missing things or not knowing some things and, you know, all that stuff. But have confidence in yourself that you know enough. Enough is enough. And if you don't know along the way, you will figure it out and learn it. And, you know, Experts like me are great, but ultimately you have your own unique context and needs, and it's about, about trusting yourself and being confident with yourself and figuring it out.

Oh, such good advice. That's so helpful. I want to know where everybody can find that awesome card game, where everybody can find you. Tell us where to find the good stuff.

Yeah, um, so you can find the cards at, um, on mindbrainemotion.com. The cards are being sold on Amazon. It's Amazon Prime. We're having actually a huge Prime Day discount. Um, it's on Walmart, and I guess Michaels really wants to have us, so we'll be at Michaels. That's awesome. Yeah, as well. So, um, lots of resources. So definitely, you know, if you do get the cards, it's a— each of them have skill set assessments and online learning library. So be sure to, you know, to get online as well because you get a ton of free resources with the cards to work together. Oh, and then, um, I'm on Instagram at Mind Brain Parenting.

Well, I can't thank you enough. I absolutely loved getting a chance to talk to you.

Oh, well, thank you so much for having me, Rebecca. I really enjoy your reflections. Happy belated birthday.

Oh, Thank you. Yes, keep doing—

absolutely keep doing what you're doing. Great resources and tips and role modeling that you're doing for other parents.

Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I think you're a fantastic lady, and I feel honored that I got to talk to you today.

Thank you for having me.

This is Rebecca Greene, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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