Episode 415: Women with Bad Taste in Men

No need to whine, it's whiny palooza. Have some wine and join us on the whiny palooza podcast with Rebecca Greene.

Welcome to the whiny palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Greene. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Greene for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am very excited today because I to talk to the lovely Mary Crocker Cook. Mary, thank you so much for doing this with me today.

Oh, you're very welcome.

I love her topic. I love her book title. I want to tell you all about her. She's a fantastic lady. Uh, Mary is a licensed therapist with over 30 years of experience, a longtime women empowerment advocate, and an expert in relationship dynamics. Drawing from her personal journey and professional expertise, Mary's newly released book— get ready for this title— Bad Taste: Self-Care and Financial Stability for Women with Bad-Tasted Men.

What a good title, Mary.

She offers practical advice with a humorous twist. She provides insights into overcoming relationship patterns, cultivating self-care, and achieving financial independence. Making her a sought-after speaker and conversational guest. She's going to be an awesome guest. And I love this topic, and I'm really excited to talk to her. And I want to know, okay, what inspired you to write the book and share your journey? And tell me where you got the title from.

Okay. All right. Let's do all of it. Okay.

Yes. That's a— too many questions.

That's all right. That's all right. You know, because I've been working with women and men for a very, very long time, and I have my own life story. One of the things that it's common for people in my world to have commented on my own incredibly bad taste in men. I have observed the bad taste of men in my— a lot of my women clients. And one of the reasons I wanted to write this has to do with the fact, uh, why do we do it? But more importantly, maybe we're not ready to change it, because a lot of books are around how to change it. In fact, I've written multiple books on how to change it, right? But the goal here is sometimes we aren't leaving, right? Sometimes we need to stay. We need to somehow, you know, make this— take care of ourselves in spite of the fact it might not be The best relationship. Okay, so I have, you know, it's broken down into the different types of people we choose, right? So yes, I'm married to a cheater, but we have kids, right? Or I'm in a long-term relationship with a career criminal and he's not going to change, or he's an addict and he's not going to quit, or he, well, he doesn't like to work. Okay, that's not going to change. So there's a lot of things that our heart wants what it wants. And at the same time, we still need to be able to do what's called harm reduction in the addiction field, which is, okay, how do I mitigate the damage despite the fact I'm in a less than ideal situation?

Yeah. Well, I mean, that sounds like a fantastic tool for women. And I'm just curious, you said a little bit about that in what you just said, but what are the common patterns that you're seeing with the bad taste? Like, what are the bad taste themes?

Yeah, one of the, one of the things that all of these different relationships have in common is unavailability. And so some of what I address is the idea that because of early childhood disruption and our own ability to connect and attach, uh, in a secure way, we have a tendency to choose people who are not available emotionally or even physically sometimes, and then try to make it work because that's our early pattern. So in some ways, it doesn't matter if I'm with a cheater or I'm with a criminal or whatever. What they all have in common is we're not connected. We're not connecting in a healthy, secure way.

That makes so much sense. So as a woman who maybe I feel like I'm— the woman listening feels like she has bad taste in men, how can she start to identify and recognize these patterns?

I think part of it is, you know, you can do a kind of a relationship historical timeline, right? Sometimes we do a relationship postmortem. Most of us do. And one of the things you can start to see are themes. Yeah. What are the themes here? And we have a tendency to focus on them. It's not about them. It's about me. And okay, what the common denominator here is me. So I'm doing the choosing. So what is happening? What is going on with me that this seems to be a comfort zone for me, right? And you know, the truth is, the people who love you can tell you. Yes. Oh yes, yes. Even on my website, on my website badtastedmen.com, there is a PDF for friends and family of women with bad taste because they go through it with us. And even if I didn't know, I could ask my best friend and she could just line it up for me. Okay, because they watch this train wreck situation and they're like, you know, helpless to stop it, but they can certainly observe it.

Yeah, it's really amazing if you're— and you can tell me if you disagree— if your friends and family do not like your relationship, take a good hard look at why.

I'm just gonna say, especially, especially if It's not a pattern with them, you know. Yes, normally they're very welcoming. So what's up with this one? That they're— yeah, listen to them, they're so smart. Yes, they're so smart.

Such good advice. So in your book, you emphasize self-care.

Yeah.

Can you talk about some of your top tips when someone's navigating a difficult relationship?

Well, part of it, the biggest one is you don't lie to yourself, okay? Because the main way we get in them and stay in them is we lie to ourselves, okay? And I'll give you a good example. Uh, the other day I went to a hockey game with a guy I didn't know very well, but I love hockey, he likes hockey, so let's go to hockey. So we got it, and I was, I was feeling a bit peculiar and I wasn't sure why, like what's, what's going on, something wasn't right. So we're in the car and at one point we were talking about social stuff and he says, he makes the statement, "Yeah, I'm highly social so I don't have to connect, haha." But then we kept chatting, chatting, chatting. All right, now there were a couple times during the evening where we did connect briefly. Now, in the old days, I would have focused on those couple of times where we connected and gone, "Hey," and then try to make that work. What happens when you don't lie to yourself is you listen to what people say.

Yes.

And, and believe them. So when he said that, it's like, oh, so already I have some availability information going in. But in my 30s and 40s, whoop, right over my head.

That is a, that is a really— I, I'm proud of him for knowing that about himself. But that's a really odd statement because is it socializing, connecting?

No, not at all. Oh heavens, no. No, people chat, chat, chat. Extroverts don't connect worth a crap.

I mean, I'm an extrovert.

Sorry. I mean, you can chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, but you don't necessarily have any kind of meaningful exchange.

Okay, okay. So it's the context of what the socializing is about, probably.

Yes. And the fact that we're meeting, we're meeting each other at a mutual level, right, where we're both, you know, sharing parts of ourselves with each other. Yeah.

So interesting. Okay, I've never had it explained that way. I'm already learning stuff.

Sorry about that, that was said a little harshly, but I want you to be your authentic, honest self.

And you know what, I can take it.

I want to learn.

As far as staying with self-care, you talk about self-care in the context of staying or leaving. Can you explain that?

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea is You don't have— it's kind of like with addiction. I don't have to wait for somebody to get sober for me to start getting healthier. In other words, okay, well, it's the same idea. Okay, he's going to be a criminal. All right. What can I do to protect myself financially? How can I plan? How does— I explain in the book, for example, how bail works, what civil forfeiture is, how much it costs to have like an ankle bracelet. I talk about that stuff, I know, but it's like, okay, you know, things like making sure you're on the lease because they lose their job when they get arrested, so you need to be able to maintain your home. Um, I mean, stuff like that is very practical, right? It's like, well, here's what you need to do if this is what, uh, you know, if you are, if you are married to or in a long-term relationship with somebody who is a user, okay, it's really important that their name is not on your children's college fund because they will steal the money for the college fund. So you make sure that the money gets put— so I mean, I know those are, those are kind of hard things, but the truth is, after listening to women, you know, things like, if my long-term partner is a narcissist and has a really nasty-ass personality disorder, Don't do anything if you do leave them other than an attorney. Don't try to work cooperatively. Don't try to have one of those, you know, you know, negotiated— no, go straight to the attorney because they're going to violate every agreement they make with you.

No, that's really good.

That's really good advice. That's the kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so sad. This topic is actually really sad that women are dealing with such difficult people. And I know that they are.

Yeah.

And I also know that a lot of women— I don't mean to be gender specific, but a lot of women, a lot of women stay because of finances. So can we talk about how they can start to regain their financial independence?

So one of the things I talk a lot about is making sure that you establish your own credit again, that you have your name on the— your name is always anywhere you live. Make sure that the that you— I put in there a couple of examples of certifications and jobs you can begin to train for within a fairly short period of time that can make some decent money. You know, I'm trying— I'm— things like getting a safety deposit box to put your valuables in so that you don't need— you don't risk losing them. If you're dating a married man, making sure he gives you jewelry because you can sell it. If you need to, to start over when he dumps you. Okay, because he's not leaving his wife. Okay, so yeah, I mean, I know it's good, it's like, but you need to be thinking ahead. But that again means you can't lie to yourself. Yes, it's like, I have to be able to tell the truth. Okay, if I'm gonna stay, and I'm staying a lot of time, I love him, not even— I mean, yeah, I need the money or whatever, but 'Oh, we have kids,' or 'religion,' or, 'I love the guy.' Okay, you love him, all right. Yeah, you know, but you need to do some planning around this.

Can you give them an example of somebody who is lying to themselves?

Well, the thing I said a minute ago around hyper-focusing on the couple of times he was a— yeah, instead of paying attention to what he actually said about himself. That, that's a big example. Yeah. Another one is, again, um, again, he— all right, you meet him, you meet somebody and they tell you, you know, I'm such an asshole, I've always been bad at relationships. Oh God, leave them. Men say that stuff all the time. And what women say is— because I've heard them, right? Yes.

Yeah.

And, and the— and what women say to themselves is, poor guy, he has a bad self-esteem. I would be a better relationship for him and he'd feel better about himself. I mean, I would— you begin to tell yourself the story about if he was with you, it would be different. If he tells you, yeah, I've, I've, I know I've had a couple bankruptcies, but those, it wasn't my fault, don't listen. Okay, I'm just— if he doesn't pay his child support, he's not going to pay your alimony. I am just saying Don't lie to yourself. Wow. Okay, don't lie to yourself. It's hard, I know, but there it is, the hard truth, ladies. I'm sorry, but okay. So then what you do, okay, if you— okay, he's drinking, he's not gonna stop drinking. And I have a story in there about a really dear friend I love very much was not going to stop drinking. I love this guy. And what I would do is we would find times when he was less drunk where we could connect. And I tried to enjoy him until he ultimately— he passed away of alcoholism. You find those places. Yeah, right. All right, let's say I have, you know, I have a guy that's emotionally, you know, immature, so occasionally just loses his crap, but other times he's a good companion. Right? So the thing is, you don't have to make them the bad guy. What you do is you see the whole picture. Like, yeah, he's a narcissist, but he's also really good at house upkeep. So, all right, you know, you, you basically lay it out in a way that makes it manageable. Mhm.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. It's, it's really romantic though. I know it's not romantic. I mean, I'm just digesting everything you're saying and I'm very thankful for my husband. I will go tell him this.

Good.

You know what?

There's a lot of absolutely fabulous men. I love them. And there are, and I see a lot of really lovely men and they treat their, their partners very, very well. Um, and really this, this little book, it's only 80 pages. It's not about the men as much as us and what we're doing and how to take care of ourselves. It's, you know, because what all of them are the same in the sense that they're unavailable.

Yes, that's a good, that's a good way to summarize what the issue is. So you use humor a lot. You've already made me laugh a lot, and I know you use humor in your work, in your book. Can you talk about how that helps in difficult relationships?

Because most people— first of all, people learn better when they are laughing. We have a tendency to learn. We have a tendency— our defenses go down, right? And so it's easier sometimes for us to see things. When we see it, we can find something about it that's stupid or ridiculous. And part of surviving and thriving in really hard times is having support where we— because laughter is based on perspective. Okay. So when you have other people who recognize and get it, that you can share it with, it also diminishes some of the isolation and shame. Right? Because the other downside of staying with somebody, you know, other people are a little judgy about, is you feel embarrassed sometimes, or you feel like you have to be secretive. And so I have, I have places in here where people can, you know, reach out and connect for support, like, you know, Al-Anon or National Alliance for Mental Illness, or places where women can go, "Hey, okay, I need to be— if, when I can tell the truth, particularly with another person who gets it, there's an opportunity for humor, right? Yes. Yeah, dark humor binds people all the time. People with a bad manager— one of the ways that people in companies with shitty management survive is dark humor, right?

That is true, very true. Well, you're making me laugh, so I'm sure you make your clients laugh, and I'm sure they love you. Well, we, we want to teach our daughters to have healthy relationships. I know I want to teach my— I mean, I have a son too, but I want to teach my daughters to choose good men. So tell us how we can do this from a young age.

Part of it is paying attention to what your, your body is tells you, because We feel things before we think them. Okay. So remember, let's go back to the hockey story. I was feeling something before I could name it. Okay. So we have a lot of information that we're screening out, or we can screen it in. Okay. So how do I feel when I'm with this person? Do I like myself? Do I feel like they see and hear me accurately? Do I feel seen and heard? Okay. That's important. And that's true in friendship. I mean, that's true in a romantic relationship. It's like, do I feel like you get, you see me? And secondarily now, are you available for the same thing? Right? So there's a neutrality that has to exist for any relationship to be healthy, right? But our bodies are smart. Our bodies are smart.

So smart. I'm amazed that you said that. That is really good. And I want to tell you, as a giver, I personally was giving, giving, giving. And when I met my husband and he was giving back, I was like, oh, other people give too.

Ah, how about that?

No, but we shouldn't be doing all of the give, give, give. It's two ways. It goes two ways.

That's the way it's supposed to go. And, and what happens then is, what is my nervous system doing? My nervous system is calm. Because one of the things that happens when these relationships are out of balance is we're in fight or flight a lot, right? And so I'm constantly a little agitated. I'm not settled, right? I'm working too hard. I'm overgiving. It's like our nervous system tells us a lot about who's in our world because it's reading it. We're always reading everything. It's part of our neurology is to read things. right? And that'll tell you who's in your— who's in the room, right? Because your nervous system will tell you, like, watch that, watch, watch, right?

That is amazing advice. That'll tell you right there how you feel with somebody. Yes.

But you have to listen.

Well, and we don't. A lot of us, we ignore things.

We're good at ignoring. Or making excuses or say, oh, I'm just— it's just, you know, they're having a bad day, whatever. Believe people when they tell you about themselves because they do.

Such good advice.

Amazing.

Well, and we want women to build their self-confidence.

Yes.

So can you give them a piece of advice to help them work on that?

Well, I think a lot of self-confidence has to do with Again, telling yourself the truth so you have the actual information to make a good decision, right? The more I lie to myself and the more I candy coat things all the time, the more vulnerable I am to stepping in crap, right? The idea is, okay, if I can see the landscape, I can, I can be fairly sure of myself. Right. So the more kind of the Lulu I am, the harder it is to feel good about me. Yeah, that's really good.

That's so true. Well, and I know you're in a hard place as a therapist to be with someone, to be sitting with someone and hearing about their relationship, and you want to be compassionate and you want to empower them. So how do you balance those two? How do you balance that in the session?

What an excellent question, Rebecca Greene. Okay, the compassion comes from— it is highly unlikely they've chosen worse than I'm capable of. Okay, so I don't have a tremendous amount of judgment about it. My goal is for them to see— when I look at them, for them to see what I see. Because most of these times, these are marvelous women. They're, they're educated, they're smart, they're funny, competent as no, as all get out, okay? Responsible. They've probably taken care of their parents and their kids, and they're— these are awesome women. And so part of it is for me to help them see what I see and that they matter. Like the whole goal is, look, you matter too. I'm not saying you need to become a narcissist. I'm saying that you're not even factoring you in.

Yeah.

So the goal here is, you know, I matter also. And, you know, that's a good place to start, and then we'll see. But it's hard because I can see them. I see— I have the luxury of just meeting them, and I don't have that back. I don't have their backstory yet. I'm just looking at this person and I'm like, good Lord, I don't know how this guy gets to carry your purse. You know what I mean? I know.

I have often said to people, I wish you saw yourself how I see you. I know. I so wish that for you.

Exactly. And yeah, and so the goal is, and I tease them and exaggerate how fabulous they are. I find ways to make them laugh at themselves, but mainly it's genuine affection because I get it. And this little book is written with affection. It's like, look, I want you guys, I want women to be okay. I want us to be okay. And we can be. You know, people will spend a ridiculous amount of money in therapy talking about why do other people do things. Why does he say that? Why does he do that? I don't know. He's not in a room. Can we talk about the person in the room?

Yes, please.

Why do you say that? Why do you think that? Right? I don't know. I don't know what he's doing. I have— I mean, I could make some guesses, but I have never met this individual. Okay, but I do know you. Let's talk about you. You know, it is rare for people to have 50 minutes to an hour where they actually can focus on themselves because we are so overstimulated and pulled in so many directions. And it's funny, some people will come in, men and women, and they'll plop their butt on the couch and they go, right, almost like they've been running a marathon. And it's like, okay, it sounds wonderful.

I'm gonna come to your couch and I'm gonna plop down and I'm gonna talk to you for 50 minutes.

I do that. I saw my therapist Tuesday. Are you kidding? I run up in there. I'm like, because again, I need that. Yeah. And I need reflected back to me through her what she sees when I am discouraged and I feel like, you know, you know, uh, what I'm doing is pointless or whatever, whatever is going on with me. I need her reflection and to try to, and to trust her that what she sees is true, right? When I don't feel it, she can, and I have to like borrow her hope for a few minutes.

Yes.

Okay, that's kind of what it is. I'm borrowing— I'm trusting her, what she sees, enough to kind of get me moving, because right now I can't get me moving. So I'm gonna have to trust she's right.

I love it so much. I love that you have that. And I want to talk about the women listening who feel stuck. They feel stuck right now. What's some advice for them? And they don't want to be stuck.

I get it. Part of this being stuck is, again, because you really want the other person to be different. Okay? So a lot of the reason you're stuck is because you're like, "Well, if only," right? Yes. The deal is, okay, what are my options given the situation? The only options I have are what I choose to do. How do I take care of me? What can— in fact, you know, let's say you are, you know, in a long-term relationship with a narcissist. Okay, that means you're going to need to bring other people into your world who can see and hear you. Because that person is deaf, okay? And they're hypercritical, so you'll never get it right, ever, ever. So you give up, you give up on ever getting it right. What you do is you create a, a world or an opportunity for you to be in spaces where you are seen and heard, where you do have a voice, where you do get what you need. Because once I recognize this person isn't capable of doing it, instead of trying to make them do it, Yeah, right. It's like, okay, you're— in other words, this is not an option. What are my actual options given the givens, right? And some people decide ultimately, because they have these, these windows of support, they think, well, I kind of would like to have more of that. And ultimately they might change it, or it might just sort of get them through whatever they need to get through. But Focusing on how to make the other person change is deadly because you can't.

Well, that is really interesting because if you think about it, how you just explained it so well, it's not— we're not stuck if we're focusing on what we can do.

Right.

So that makes so much sense. So we're really never stuck if we look at the steps that we can take ourselves.

Yeah. What are my actual options here? Yes. Right? And they may be small. And I think we get, again, we get really focused on the big solutions. Mm-hmm. I need to leave. Well, you're not leaving right now. Let's be honest. You're not. So if that's not on the table, what is on the table? Right? So focusing on, on even small things, like, I, 15 minutes a day where I sit and I'm quiet. And I'm not stimulated, nobody's asking me for anything, and I'm able to just let my nervous system breathe, right? Or maybe it's the beverage choice. Instead of my fourth cup of coffee, which jacks me up, maybe what I need to do is have a cup or two of coffee a day and, and have more nourishing things, right? I control that.

I think it's amazing. Little changes can make such a big difference.

Such a big difference.

Yes.

It doesn't have to be the big, big thing.

Well, and I don't know what you're comfortable sharing and not sharing, but I would love to know how your own personal stuff affects your, like, professional advice, how it's impacted you.

Yeah, I think the biggest way it impacts me is that I, again, I'm rarely judgmental. Meaning, part of being a person in long-term recovery is that what happens in recovery is that you always talk about what your side of the street is, right? And so there's a, to stay sober, you have to look at your part. You have to say what, you know, so I've got, I just picked up my 35-year chip. I got 35 years of experience Wow, amazing. Saying, what's my part? So because I'm, I've been schooled in that so heavily, um, I try to tell the truth about myself and the situations I'm in. And, um, and I have people, I specifically have people in my world that if I don't, they will. So So, I think that's really how it's informed me, which is I try to really own it. And that means I'm able to, when I'm seeing it in the person across from me, I'm able to recognize how hard it is. And, you know, I tend to lead with my heart in the sense that, okay, this is hard. I'll also tell you why it's doable. Because I've done it or I've seen it done, right? You're not the first person to ever be in a situation and you will not be the last. And the good part about that is we know what to do, right?

Well, and I'm not saying that you need to walk the walk, right? But the fact that you have been through so much probably gives you so much more respect from your clients.

Well, I don't know about that. I think what happens is they feel more like, um, uh, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I know. They— and, and it— and I'm also— gives me patience because it takes time to change. That's the other thing. People come there like, well, what do I need to do to fix this? Well, good luck with that. Okay. I am 61 years old.

Okay.

It took me how many years to figure this stuff out? I'm not going to change it right now. That's why these little steps matter. Yes, they do. And then they, they, they're like a snowball. But people really want a self-help book. They do. They want, okay, can you give me, you know, this, the 12, the 10 steps to never having a bad relationship? But I'm like, well, okay, good luck with that. Like, I'll tell you what, if you find that, you, you send it here, okay? Um, it's a work in progress. It's a work in progress. And what happens is we get better and better over time.

Yes. Yes. So how can we start to identify that we're doing better and we're, we're choosing better?

Okay, I'm going to go back to what I said before. What is your body telling you? Okay.

Yeah, I knew you were going to say that.

How much time, how much of the time am I in fight or flight?

Yes.

How much of the time Am I busy ruminating and having imaginary conversations in my head instead of being in recovery? We say, be where your feet are, instead of paying attention to what's going on in my world right now. And you'll also know you're making progress by the people you're starting to invite into your world. Now, you may still be in that crappy relationship, or you may still— I personally have radar for the most unavailable man in the room. So I always will. That doesn't mean I have to go there. So just because I notice the most unavailable guy, yeah, what I've learned is leave him on the buffet table and walk away.

Go find someone else.

Okay. It doesn't mean— so it's not like you're cured. You get better at choosing better. It's really like that. It's like being your own parent. Right? Choose it. No, honey, bad playdate. You can't, you can't have him. Leave him alone. It's almost like talking to myself like that.

Yes, yes, we have to parent ourselves.

Exactly. You would not, you know, I've asked parents, I ask moms this all the time. Would you let your child have a playdate with somebody who treats you the way he does? They're like, Well, no. Why? And I— why not? Well, because I don't want him— I don't want my baby to be yelled at.

Oh, exactly, exactly.

Know those rules. We don't outgrow those playdates rules that mom's taught you, right?

So to the friends listening who are feeling frustrated with what they're seeing, yeah. So what advice do you have to the friends?

Oh, bless you.

Okay, well, wanna help?

First of all, it is perfectly okay to not listen to the same story 1,700 times. Okay, it is perfectly okay to say, honey, I don't have anything new to say about this. Could we change the topic, or could we talk about something else? Because When somebody is trying to change another person, they have a tendency to not recognize how repetitive they are, they, because they're processing. And sometimes it's okay to— it actually does them a world of good. I think a lot of times we feel like we're being helpful by just listening, and, and sometimes we are. But if we've covered this ground a couple times now and you're not going to change it, This is the thing here. It's one thing if you want to process something you're changing, but if you really aren't going to leave him, you just want to give me more examples of, you know, how he lied to you. I think we could— I'm going to call timeout and say, can we, can we choose a different topic? Because I want our relationship to survive, right? Yeah. And reminding women there's more to them than the relationship.

Yes, yes, you know, so many people run away from friends because they can't hear it again.

I hear it, and because we're not being brave, and part of being brave is to say, I can't have this conversation again, but I want to spend time with you. Can we talk about something different? Yeah, because, you know, the person who's doing it, half the time, honestly, they have no idea, no idea. How much they talk about themselves.

I've often wondered that question about people. I'm like, I'll say to my husband, I don't think they asked me one question about myself.

Because when you're trying to figure out your relationship, it's all-consuming and it's hard on other people.

That's true.

It's hard on the people. And the other thing is, if your friends don't want to be BFFs with your bad relationship, let them not be. They don't need to accept your bad choices. Look, it's okay if you want to date a criminal or marry them, okay, but your BFF doesn't need to be hanging with them, right? And I think that's the other reality women don't like to be honest about. They want— part of their denial is everyone in their system is supposed to somehow also, right, join the delulu and we all pretend this guy's available. He's not. He's bringing your married lover, your married partner, to your family occasions— bad idea. And because now you're forcing everybody to be like, not notice that they're married— not okay.

Okay, so you tell them.

So part of it is Okay, if I make questionable choices, sometimes that does mean not everybody's going to want to have them come over to the house, right? Okay, it's a hard part. Yeah, it's hard. If I have a man— if I'm with a man who's crabby and aggressive and, you know, self-centered, yeah, we're not going to get invited to lots of parties. Right. It means I'll probably be seeing my girlfriends individually. Okay, we won't be taking family vacations the way other people do because I'm married to somebody horrible. It's like, that's sad. Yeah, okay, but forcing the people who love you to pretend he's not horrible is really unreasonable.

Not realistic.

No, they have even less reason to put up with him. They don't love him. Exactly, exactly.

Oh my goodness, I knew you were going to be fun. So tell me, what are you hoping that people take away from your book? What is a message you want women to take away?

That you don't have to wait till they're better for you to start taking care of yourself.

Um, oh, I love that.

Stay care— whatever they're doing is what they're doing. Okay, you can take care of you. Okay, you don't have to wait. You don't have to put all your energy into changing them. Leave it alone. Like, okay, it is what it is. What are my options? How do I take care of me and my kids? How do I handle my life in a way where I carve out, you know, places of sanity for myself? And then if I ever do want to change it, okay. Right? But you don't have to wait until you— I think women wait till they're ready to make the big decision. Like, you don't have to. Mm-mm. Do not have to. And I think the big decisions often come from all the small ones. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Don't underestimate those small changes.

Exactly.

I love that you talked about that. So tell everybody the name of your book, where to find the book, okay, where to find you.

Okay, it's called Bad Taste: Self-Care and Financial Planning When You Have Bad-Tasted Men. You can go to www.badtastedmen.com. Um, you can also find it on Amazon. You would type in Bad Taste with Mary Crocker Cook, you'll find it. Okay, again, I made it short because Most women who would read this are pretty stressed, so we don't have time for 400-page— no, and I don't make you do any journaling exercises or anything, okay? You don't have to do any of that, okay? You just do some reading and I think, um, get some ideas about how to take care of you. Um, my publishers is going to have me, I think, change the COVID of it. But I like the COVID um, and I like the title because—

have it— do you have it to show us in your hands?

Yeah, just like that.

Can you see it?

Yes.

What's wrong with it?

I like it. I like it too. Thank you, Rebecca. Um, I think what I would add to it is something that says, and you're staying. Yeah. Because again, not everybody's ready to do anything major, and that's all right. You don't have to do major things to improve the quality of your life. Even 10%, 20%, 30%, you know, let's, let's do that. Let's not wait. It's not all or nothing, I guess what I'm saying.

Well, I think that this is an excellent topic. I think you nailed it. I think women need it. And I really appreciate you writing it and sharing it with us. I appreciate you taking time to talk to me today.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This was fun. You ask good questions.

I try. I appreciate it. I appreciate your time and expertise, and I appreciate the work that you're doing. I think it's really good work. So this is Rebecca Greene, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, Please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC. To discover how you can have your own show completely done for you and turn it into a real published book and become the authority in your marketplace, go to www.marketdominationllc.com/podcastoffer.

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