Episode 419: One Extraordinary Marriage

No need to whine, it's Whiny Palooza! Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza Podcast with Rebecca Greene.

Welcome to the Whiny Palooza Podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Greene. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Greene for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am so super excited for our extraordinary Valentine's Day special. We have the fabulous guests, Tony and Elisa DeLorenzo. Hi guys!

Hi! We're so happy to be here.

Hey Rebecca, thank you for doing this special episode with me. Your topic is my favorite topic to talk about. It's going to be awesome. And I want to tell everyone about you guys. They have— oh my goodness— the top marriage podcast in Apple Podcasts, The One Extraordinary Marriage show, and they speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love, and commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority. Their bestselling book, The Six Pillars of Intimacy, has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You'll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its common-sense approach. And man, was I just listening to their podcast and As excited as I was to talk to them, I didn't want to turn it off. So go listen to their podcast. And let's start with, tell, tell us when the podcast started and what inspired you to start it.

Yeah, so the podcast has been going for 15 years now.

Amazing.

And the journey to getting to that point though was a bit— I mean, we've been married 28 years at this point in time. And so getting to the start of the podcast, we've been married 11 years and we were struggling in our marriage for the second time. We'd struggled many a times, but this was the second time, I think, in our marriage where we really were contemplating divorce. And so we really got to this place where we were like, either A, we're going to get a divorce, B, we're going to get a divorce when our youngest turns 18, or C, we're going to get radical. And we decided to get radical. And I won't go into all the, all the insights, but we did a 60-day sex challenge. And for anybody who wants to listen, that's episode 1 of The One Extraordinary Marriage Show. You can listen to what happened, but let me just say it saved our marriage and it put us on this trajectory to start speaking. We spoke at a church event, our local church. And after that, people were like, what's next? And Elisa and I looked at each other and we're like, what's next? We're good. Like, I'm running another business. She's at home hanging out with the kiddos. This is what we wanted. And we just kept feeling this nudge, like it's time to do something and stepped into blogging in '09. And then in 2010, January 2010, we released our first episode.

I mean, that we were just laughing that nobody knew what a podcast was in 2010. No, I didn't.

Yeah, there were a handful of podcasters back then. Um, you know, I remember very distinctly like meeting people like, what's a podcast? I'm like, well, it's kind of like a radio show but without commercials and you can do your own stuff. And they're like, oh.

But it was really interesting. Even then, 15 years ago, we started getting emails from Alaska. Uh, at the time we were living in California, so we'd get emails from New York or other parts of the country. And we're like, how are people finding this? Um, and so we just kept We just kept telling our story, telling our story, getting behind our microphones every week, um, and to share about marriage.

Well, you're doing an amazing job. As you know, you have the top Apple podcast in marriage, and you have to back up the 60-Day Sex Challenge. Okay, you know, I want to know what this is, and I will go listen to the episode, and I know you don't want to give too much away, but tell us what this is.

Well, Let me tell you a little bit about where we were. Um, like Tony said, we were in this position of really like evaluating the future of our marriage. And we were leading a small group at our church. And Tony calls me one day. Um, he was out working and he's like, I think we should talk about sex. You know, the church isn't talking about sex enough, like marriage, sex, bringing it all together. What does that look like? And I remember looking at the phone, Rebecca, and being like, we're not having sex. Like, what the heck are we going to talk about? Cause we're not, we have two little kids. We're really dysfunctional doing the roommate syndrome thing really, really well. And I said, well, find me a book, right? Because this was, you know, still 15, almost 20 years ago now. We're not looking on the internet for all this type of stuff. I'm like, just find me a book. And so he does, and he comes home, and we're getting ready to prepare for this. And we had learned of these two couples that had done sex challenges. One had done— a wife, for her husband's 40th birthday, had given him a year of sex. And in their book, they don't actually talk about how many days they did, but it was this whole premise of sex was always on the table for the entire year.

Wow.

Then there was another couple that had done 101 days straight. And that, as we're learning about this, Tony looks at me and goes, well, our small group study is only going to be 8 weeks. That's only 56 days. If we round up, we'll just make it 60. What if we did a 60-day sex challenge? And keep in mind, the kids were 2 and 5. Yeah, disconnected.

I'm impressed. I'm very impressed.

Oh, don't be impressed yet because my first reaction, Rebecca Greene, was to roll my eyes, say, heck no, get up out of bed where we were having the conversation and go put on a face mask so that he knew nothing was even happening that night. Like, we are— heck no. So do not be impressed. The next day, literally basketful of laundry in my garage, and I just— I had this God moment where it was just like, are you really not even going to try and save your marriage? And that was— that was the moment where I said, okay, like, what happens if Tony and I just make our marriage a priority for 60 days. Yes, sex was the catalyst, but it was really how we learned so much more about all of these different intimacies within marriage that set us on the trajectory to be where we are today. 15 years of podcasting, 11 books, and all of, you know, the speaking and everything that we do.

Well, and as I told you, I have a bazillion questions swirling in my head, but we need to talk a little bit more about sex because it's a huge issue in marriage. I mean, humongous. I can't tell you how many women I talk to who are like, nope, not having sex. Like, they're just not having sex. When you say 60 days in a row, I have to tell you, my first thought was ouch.

A good lube will help with that. A good lube. Like, let's just talk about it.

Yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. Yes, but okay, let's talk about the couple who is not having sex. And you give them a little advice to get some going.

So first of all, don't overwhelm yourself by even thinking about a 60-day sex challenge, right? Like, that, that's our story. But even as a marriage coach, I never advocate for any of my couples to start with 60 days. Um, some, I'm not even like, we're not even talking about a sex challenge. Like, so just everybody breathe again, take a breath, take a breath. But you know, and I said a few minutes ago, when we did our 60-day sex challenge, we learned that there were actually 6 different intimacies that are so vital for our marriage. And when you start focusing on the other 5, that 6th one, the sexual intimacy, really does come into play. Yeah, because it's looking at your emotional intimacy, how the two of you communicate, which I will tell you, if a couple's not having sex, they're probably also not doing a whole lot of talking.

Yeah, that is accurate.

And they probably don't have a lot of physical intimacy, which is the non-sexual touch, because if we're not having sex, like, I'm not going to brush up against you in the kitchen and actually, like, put my hand on your back, or hold your hand or give you a kiss. And so it's looking at these different pillars of intimacy and saying, hey, wait, can we work on those so that we can get back to enjoying sex so that we can work through the resentments or the hurts or the disappointments that have driven this wedge in between the two of us? Because it's a holistic approach. It's not just, hey, go have more. I would never tell any of my coaching clients, go have more sex if we haven't worked on those other pieces.

Well, and I really want to talk about the 6 pillars. And, you know, I know you guys wrote a book about it. So, can you tell us how this transpired, finding these 6 pillars and writing this book?

Yeah. So, over the years, we call our community the ONE Family, and we begin to listen to them and hear them. And even in our first book, we hit on 5 of the 6, actually, in our first book. And over the years, we'd continue to just listen to the one family, and there just came a moment right around the pandemic time frame where we were just sort of like, what, where, where are we going and what are we doing and how are we really helping couples have the extraordinary marriage they desire? And, um, we, we ended up doing a one-day event, and back then we, we called it something else, I don't remember, but we had a slide that Elisa had made and it had 6 pillars, and it had a triangle as a roof. And I remember us coming off the stage after talking about those 6 pillars, and people right next to us were like, I need to work on my physical intimacy pillar, I need to work on my sexual intimacy pillar. We went into the lobby and people were saying the same thing, and we're like, pillars? What are they talking about?

They didn't call them pillars.

We didn't call it pillars. And that's where it came. And we just learned from so many people in the, in the one family of like, All right, we need to talk about this because if we talk about it from a holistic way, bring in the framework and help them to understand it, they can strengthen each pillar. And by strengthening each pillar, we can have that extraordinary marriage.

You mind going through them for us?

Not at all. And one of the things I want to say before I share them or reshare them is that, you know, so many couples struggle because they don't have language for their marriage. They think, oh my gosh, like we're falling apart or our marriage is horrible. And as we share the 6 pillars, I would guess that a lot of your listeners are going to start to hear, oh, this is actually where the crack is, this is where the problem is. And what happens when we have language is that we can actually become solution-oriented.

Yes.

And I want to say, Elisa and I have been married 28 years. We've known each other for 30 years. We have gone through the wringer in our lives. Ups and downs. I mean, we went— we got ourselves out of $50,000 in debt. We lost a child between our first and our second. We lost our home in the Great Recession. Like, we have been through a lot. So I don't want anybody to think like, oh, well, they had it all perfect. They did a 60-Day Sex Challenge and now they're better. No, we were— we were dysfunctional in a lot of ways. And these pillars truthfully have helped us. And we have just been blessed to be able to continue to share it with the ONE family and others. To have, like Elisa said, that framework, that language to help one another.

Yeah. So, the first one is your emotional intimacy. And this is that closeness and connection that comes from sharing your thoughts, your feelings, your desires. It's, you know, a lot of people would call it communication, but it's so much more than that because it's what you say and what you don't say. It's your body language. It's your tone of voice. It's really like, how do we go beyond let's talk and actually get to knowing? One another.

Yeah. The next one is physical intimacy, um, and this is your non-sexual touch. And I want to make sure that people understand this is very clear, specified for us— non-sexual hugs, kisses, cuddles, whatever that may be, touching each other's feet, you know, you know, massage. But this is just that touch that we so desire and need, and it doesn't need to lead to sexual intimacy. It can But it's just that hand on your knee, or you putting your hand on your spouse's knee to let them know, like, hey, I see you, I got you, I know you're going through something, but nothing more needs to happen.

So after the emotional and physical, we call it financial intimacy, right? And this is, this is a big one for a lot of couples because people will hear that phrase and go, I'm not sure we can be close and connected when it comes to money. That feels really like— you're laughing— it feels— we've got all of these money mindsets and things that we grew up with and behavior patterns, but it's how do the two of you have oneness, that closeness and connection around money, not just a budget, but also like retirement planning and, you know, kids and things like that.

Yeah, spiritual intimacy is our, is our belief, our faith. And how does that come together? We have, you know, if, if you've come to Christ or if you've come through some sort of path and you're on your own, it's like, how do we bring that together in our own, in our, in our marriage? And that may be attending services, it may be serving somewhere, maybe going on a missions trip, It may be praying together, whatever that looks like for you and your spouse.

So number 5 is recreational intimacy. And this is what do the two of you do together? We often call this one the fun pillar, right? You know, when you were dating, there were so many things of let's go grab a movie or let's go play mini golf or let's go to a park or museum or the beach. And then, you know, we had been married at that point in time when we went through our 60-Day Sex Challenge, we'd been married 11 years and We were like not doing anything to have fun. And it's rediscovering and getting curious about how do we like to do things together beyond chores, beyond raising the kids, that still keep that fun and connection.

And the last one, which everybody wants us to get to, is that sexual intimacy pillar. Um, but we expand this one, Rebecca Greene. Like everything else that we've talked about, we like to put some definition around this and The Sexual Intimacy Pillar is romancing, initiating foreplay, and sexual intercourse. So it's not just, hey, did we have sex today? It's, did we really connect and have closeness in this pillar? Because too often, and I think you would agree, in marriage, especially around parenting and kids, do we have sex or did we not? And that's basically, we did or we didn't. And there's so much more to sexual intimacy that allows us to be close and connected.

Oh my goodness. I found out, you know, and I'm just sharing this because it'll help other people. My husband gets so excited if I initiate, and I'm telling all, and I don't want to be stereotypical, but ladies, if we do the initiating, man, do they get— they feel the love.

Absolutely. Well, and in so many marriages, both spouses want to be desired.

Yes.

And, and if it's, if it's a dynamic in your marriage where he typically initiates, Yeah, then we as wives can often be the gatekeepers, and he's like, do you desire me? Like, it doesn't have to be all the time, but do you desire me ever? And so that's where when you initiate, he's like, all right, game on, I am the man, I am the man.

Anything that's happening, I will put it down, I don't care, let's go.

But I will say one quick thing with that too, Rebecca, is that there may be some wives who are listening and they're like, okay, I heard what Rebecca said, I'm going to initiate. If he doesn't pick up on the hint, the clue, the initiating the first time, you may need to actually verbalize that you are initiating. Because if you haven't done it for a long time—

exactly—

and you're subtle, he's not gonna get it, and you're gonna feel rejected. He's just— he doesn't know. So don't get mad at him. Just tell him. Just tell him.

Yeah. Can I share a real quick story around that?

Yeah.

Because this is a dynamic that has happened in our marriage, and through the 60-Day Sex Challenge, that was one of the big things too, of Hey, Elisa, it can't just be me initiating every single time. Like, we got to get back into a rhythm where we initiate, we both initiate. And so Elisa, and I didn't know this, but I would be like in the kitchen, just, or we'd just be hanging out and all of a sudden she would start rubbing my forearm. And I'm like, cool. Like, you're rubbing, you're rubbing my forearm. And unbeknownst to me, Elisa was initiating. It was a way for her to use that physical intimacy to be close and connected. But it was also an indication, which I didn't know because I don't have ESP, to be like, hey, today, tonight, whatever, we're gonna— I'm initiating. And so I was lost for a bit until she was like, didn't you— well, yeah, you were rubbing my— you're rubbing my forearm. What does that mean, honey? Until she told me. And then I was like, Oh, okay. You rub my forearm. I get it. It's game on.

Well, and I don't— please don't get insulted, anybody. My husband said this, not me. He goes, honey, men are dumb. Like, we don't pick up on your subtle clues. Like, you have to be really specific. Like, say what you want when you want it. And he keeps telling me that. I mean, it's been almost 20 years. And I'm like, okay, I hear you. I have to be really specific.

Yes.

Now, sometimes the clues are really obvious. Like, if you walk in the room wearing lingerie, like, that, that's, it's kind of like having presents under the Christmas tree, right? Like, we show up in our wrapping paper, they're like, that's a present for me, I get it. But if you are more subtle, yes, you might have to also use your words.

Well, and I'm saying in general in marriage, like, you can't, like, we can't give hints, you know? Like, I think we get stuck in giving hints, like, the garbage is full. No, how about, honey, I would love you to take out the garbage right now.

Yes, it's a much better way, get much better results.

So, okay, so I'm gonna— I'm, I'm being stereotypical because this is what I hear. So please, everybody, I know it could be opposite. So the, the men that I hear want more sex, the women that I hear want more conversation. Okay, that's this, that's typically what I hear. So can we, can we talk about the communication piece? Because I think sometimes couples don't even know where to begin with that.

Well, what I want to say is we just recently did a survey in our community, The ONE Family, and the statistics bear that out, um, that, you know, right around 62— the numbers are about the same— but 60-plus percent of wives want more emotional intimacy, 60-plus percent of men want more sexual intimacy. And, you know, as a marriage coach, I, I explained to my couples, this is like two sides of the same coin. Right? And we both have to be willing to step into what might not be natural to us or what might not be as comfortable to us in order to draw our spouse so that that circle, that coin, keeps flipping.

Yes, right?

And so coming back a little bit more to the stereotypical where, you know, he wants more sexual intimacy and she wants more emotional intimacy, it's even coming alongside men, husbands, and saying, okay, what does it look like to have a conversation with her? To do it. And I would even encourage wives, take— go out for a walk with him. When the two of you are walking, and we call this our walk and talk, you're side by side, so he is not sitting there going, oh my gosh, she's going to stare into my eyes. What if she asks me a question and I don't know the answer? Or I don't know— I don't know the answer, I don't know what she wants me to say. And when men move, when that— when they have that kinetic motion, it does allow processing to happen. And we also removed the whole— I mean, we got married, like Tony said, 28 years ago. The standard prevailing communication wisdom at that point in time was you need to sit across from your spouse and you need to look eye to eye and you need to have a conversation knee to knee, hold hands, and you sit there until somebody says something and you're scared out of your mind and it doesn't work out.

So if you can get some kinetic motion going, we have found that to be super helpful for us in so many of couples in the one family. I think the big thing too, Rebecca, is through the One Extraordinary Marriage show, those who feel like, well, I'm not a talker, can begin to listen and get the courage to start talking about topics in areas of marriage that they never thought possible. Because what they do is they listen to Tony and Elisa talk about some of the most out there— not always out there, but we, we challenging dive into challenging areas of our marriage and not be shy about it open, honest, and transparent, that they can go, did you hear what Tony said? Did you hear what Elisa said? Can we have that conversation? And it allows them to have a, a springboard and not have to feel like I'm alone, I don't know what to really say. Let's use this as our springboard to talk about something that I've been really thinking about. And I think that really helps men and husbands in general.

Well, and I think that um, we need to make each other feel safe in sharing whatever it is because we, we can be reactive.

Yeah.

And shut down the conversation. So I think that, um, how can we help each other feel safer is the question.

Well, and I mean, you mentioned being married right about 20 years. We're at 28. Um, you can have a lot of baggage build up in a couple decades of marriage. You throw in a few kids and all of their antics and different parenting styles, and I know that's, you know, a big part of your message as well. And we can have a lot of stuff that we've got to work through. And if you're struggling to create that safe space, if you're struggling with those hurts and disappointments, I would encourage you to seek out professional help. Find a coach that can help the two of you navigate that restoration process so that you can, you know, when you put these tools in your toolbox, like, oh, okay, let's do a walk and talk, or let's consider a sex challenge, you've already got a strong base to build off of because you've worked through all the junk. You've essentially taken the garbage out. Yeah, you talk about garbage. You've taken the garbage out so that this is strong again, and then you can actually effectively use the tools that you're bringing in.

Yeah, that's really good. Really good advice. I think that the most common thing that I'm seeing recently is the couples who are not making time for each other. And in their defense, you know, you and I both know this, you know, I have 3 children and sometimes we can feel like ships passing. And I'm like, hi, bye, hi, I'm going here, you're going there, I'll see you later. Right. How do we make more time for each other in general, to all of these people who need that advice?

I want to say one thing that Elise and I have done in the last 15 years of our marriage that has truly transformed our lives, and that is we get behind our microphones for 30 minutes every week. How do we have— find time when we had a 5 and a 2-year-old? Sometimes we'd have to be up late at night. Sometimes we'd have to find moments when The kids were napping. Sometimes we just had to just prioritize our calendar and put time on the calendar. Um, it's not, it's not rocket science, and yet at the same time, we have to be intentional and we need to take action if we truly believe that this marriage that we have is a priority. And I'm not saying you have to go do a thousand things together every week. There were seasons over the last 15 years where all Elisa and I had, because of our full lives was that 30-odd minutes every week. And that kept us together through some of the, the times when it was just sort of tough because we were two ships in the night. And yet it drew us closer together. That allowed us to build on all of those pillars of intimacy and find times to be close and connected. And so what Elisa and I usually tell couples in this time is like, look at your calendars and schedule it. Because if you're going to put your kids' sporting event— and I will raise my hand, and my son played football, he played at a high level. We were at every game. We went, traveled with them. We did stuff. So we were everywhere. But our marriage is important. And so there's times on our calendars where it's Tony and Elisa time.

And I love that.

And don't think huge chunks of time.

Yeah, right.

When we are in the parenting season and we're, we're kind of on the other side of it, our two are 19 and 22 right now, so we Woohoo! We have moved.

Congratulations! High fives! High fives!

There's still, there's still a lot of parenting. It turns from parenting to coaching.

But, but we're out of the chauffeuring stage.

Yes.

We're way out of the chauffeuring and like a million and one schedules. But in those seasons, think, what can I do in 15 or 30 minutes? Yes.

Yes. I like, I like that. Yeah.

It's very possible. And I work with a lot of couples who have very, very full lives. I'm like, find me two 15-minute windows. Over the course of the week before you're in bed, because if you're in bed, you're going to fall asleep. So we got to do it.

It's true.

You know, have a cup of coffee together, go grab an ice cream cone together, think small.

Yep.

And do the reps on the small amounts of time so that you decide that you like each other again and you want to spend more time together, and then you'll naturally expand it. But start small. Yep. And get the wins.

Well, and I don't know who is capable of doing this and who isn't, but my husband and I will sneak in a quick lunch during the week when the kids are at school. And it makes me so happy. I'm like, wow, even an hour with him of like not interrupted 50 times is like so special.

Yeah, totally agree with you on that one.

And like, it's like you said, it's not capable for— or it's not possible for every couple. Yeah. But what is possible for your marriage?

Yes, yes. Let's talk about trust for a minute. Trust has been broken in many marriages and has to be rebuilt. Um, can you give them a little advice to begin rebuilding?

First, know that it's a journey and it's not a straight line. Um, the person— both spouses have a role in restoring and rebuilding trust. It's not just the person who broke the trust, because that person kind of knew what they were doing. Um, they knew their actions. They've had a lot more time to process. The person whose trust has been broken they are like at D-Day. They are just finding out. They are going through all of their emotions. And so it's creating space, like you said, for emotions to be processed. Because emotion stuff turned into emotional garbage. Just gonna straight up say it.

Yes.

And it's recognizing there are gonna be baby steps all along the way. And that both people have a role. It's not just the person who broke the trust who has to like be perfect or get everything right. The person whose trust was broken also has a role in choosing to engage with the other person. And in that journey, it's resourcing yourself with podcasts like yours, podcasts like ours. It's finding the books, finding the coaches. I think too often when trust has been broken, couples try and kind of white-knuckle it and fix it on their own and can develop a lot of bad habits and dangerous patterns that don't lead them to actually fully being restored.

Um, and if you're the one who broke trust— and that has happened in our marriage many times, on both sides— and so we have walked down this road. And if you're the one who broke the trust and you two come to an agreement of what's going to happen, you living that out consistently over time rebuilds trust. Um, I will say one of the things though too, when, when when you're the one who has experienced what your spouse has done and the trust has been broken, you have to forgive too. And we have numerous episodes on forgiveness because you have to let it go. You can't bring it back up. One of the greatest things in, in, of my wife, um, and I love her to death because of this, and, and I came clean on a pornography addiction I had for 18 years, um, not once did we ever get in an argument that Elisa would come up and be like, well, you used to look at pornography. Not once. And I never really thought about it until many years later. And it's been 21 years now since I looked at pornography. Um, but she never brought it back up. And her, by not bringing it back up, rebuilt the trust too, because I was like, she's not pointing the finger at me. She's not going, well, look at, look at, you did this before and you're doing it doing something else, but you're doing the same thing. And it was a blessing. And she was willing to forgive me for what I had done. And I just walked out. I said, no, I'm not going to look at this. And if I do, I'm going to let you know. And so, we just had this journey. And to this point now where it doesn't impact us whatsoever and hasn't for many, many, many years.

Well, and I'm even more, you know, the whole podcast success and you two as a couple is so inspirational. And I think the reason why I'm most inspired is because you've gotten through so much stuff. So why do you think that is? Why do you think you were able to get through all these obstacles?

Um, some of it is pure stubbornness, if I can be really honest. Um, both our parents got married in 1972 within 2— 2 months of each other. And, um, we come from some pretty strong intact families. And even at our lowest, there was Like, I remember saying, I don't want to be the first one in my family to get divorced.

Oh, I love that.

And so, so some of it was just sheer stubbornness. But some of it, like, you know, it's such a great question because I don't think we've ever been asked this question. I do think that God had a purpose for our marriage making it through. I think that there was a calling placed in our lives that if we got— as we were getting through, because we're still not like arrived, we still work at our marriage every day. That our ability to talk about the challenges of marriage would be used to set so many other couples on this path of hope and restoration. And for them to go, okay, well, if Tony and Elisa can make it through, if Tony and Elisa can talk about it, if Tony and Elisa are willing to share that, what could we do? We don't have to have a pod— like everybody else, you don't have to have a podcast. You don't. It's fine. But I do think that there was a purpose and that stubbornness that said, all right, we're just gonna suck it up, but we also didn't want to be miserable, so we got to work through it.

Yeah.

Well, and I also think it goes back to that 60 Day Sex Challenge and the third option we had. We get radical. And I think when you get radical, with it comes growth. And so I think it was the first time in our lives that Elisa and I started stepping into, like, what does a growth mindset look like? What does it mean to, like, see things differently and, and change our attitudes and work on these things and be intentional in our marriage and take action where we know we need to take action? Um, and so I just think it's just been a number of little things along the way that we've been willing to step into and just go, you know what, I love you. I, I— there I mean, I've talked about on the podcast before, like, I can sit in the shower and think about like, wow, if Elisa passes away before I do, what would I do? And I'd just be like in tears and crying. And, and I just go, you know what, this is worth working for. This is worth putting the effort towards.

Well, and, and you've mentioned this several times, but what I love most about you guys is that you're real, you're authentic, you're honest. It's not all roses and sunshine. And anyone listening, I so happily married, and it is not all roses and sunshine, right? I'm telling you, it's not. So don't think it is.

And add those kiddos in, and then it's all— it's, it's a whole nother dynamic.

It's so true. So to the couple struggling, can we leave them with some words of wisdom before we go?

Um, if you're here and you're listening to this podcast, you're looking for something. Right. This particular episode and within the book, The Six Pillars of Intimacy, after every pillar, um, there's a tiny little section called Baby Steps. And what I would say to the couple that's struggling is think through what your baby step is today. You might have this big goal of here's what we want, but you know, I know you focus a lot on parenting. One of the beautiful things about our children is that when they are born, they cannot crawl, run, walk yet. Like we have a little bit of time to kind of get used to the idea. And then they just take these tiny little steps. And in restoring a marriage, it's the tiny little steps that are done consistently over time that create the biggest transformations. We see it in our kids going from newborn to crawler, walker, runner, high schooler. Um, we can do the same thing, each and every one of us, if we start taking baby steps towards that goal in our marriage.

That's wonderful advice, and I'm finding that small things aren't small. Turns out that small things aren't very small. So tell everybody where to find you and your show and your book.

Yeah, so the best place to go is oneextraordinarymarriage.com. That's oneextraordinarymarriage.com. Uh, once you go there, you'll see everything we got going on, uh, between our book, the podcast. We have live events as well. Uh, we'd love to see you, meet you, um, so jump on in.

Well, you two are amazing, as I knew you would be, and I can't thank you enough for your time and your expertise and everything that you shared with us today.

It's been an honor. Thank you for having us.

Yeah, thank you so much, Rebecca.

This is Rebecca Greene, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, Please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC. To discover how you can have your own show completely done for you and turn it into a real published book and become the authority in your marketplace, go to www.marketdominationllc.com/podcastoffer.

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