Episode 485: Parenting through Anxiety, Obsessions, and Life’s Challenges

No need to whine, it's whiny palooza. Have some wine and join us on the whiny palooza podcast with Rebecca Greene.

Welcome to the whiny palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Greene. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family. Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Greene for the Whiny Floozy Podcast, and I am very excited today because I get to talk to the wonderful Lori Singer. Lori, thank you so much for doing this with me today.

Thank you for having me.

I'm going to tell everybody a little bit about you, and then you're going to dive in and tell us more in the interview. So I just want to let everybody know that this fabulous lady has a lot of letters after her name, um, MS, LMFT, and BCBA. She is a licensed psychotherapist, board-certified behavior anal— anal— Help me out. Analyst.

Very good. Yes.

Stumbling. And the founder of Lori Singer Behavioral Services in Camarillo, California. For nearly 3 decades, Lori has combined cognitive and behavioral therapies to help children, teens, and families overcome anxiety, stress, and other mental health challenges. Her book, You're Not Crazy, Living with Anxiety, Obsessions and Fetishes offers real case stories and practical worksheets designed to help people regain control of their lives. Lori's work is deeply personal, and I'm going to let her tell you about that. And she's also a very accomplished endurance athlete and the organizer of Jacob's Run, which has raised over $350,000 for Children's Hospital Los Angeles. With her compassion, expertise, and resilience, Lori empowers families to navigate today's challenges with strength and clarity. So I told you everyone that she's fabulous. So let's dive in and learn from her. So I know you've devoted your career to helping families through anxiety and stress. Can you tell us what inspired you to take that path?

Yes. Well, it came out of, you know, a situation which was heartbreaking, which was my son who developed cancer just before his second birthday. And then he passed away just 2 and a half months after he was diagnosed. And yeah, so it was awful. And my husband and I, you know, lived at Children's Hospital for, you know, that period of time, about 2 and a half months. And we also had Jackie, my older daughter, who was 5 years old at the time. And watching how the families, you know, suffered and were torn apart, a lot of them on that cancer floor. And I think also what was a moment that always stays in my mind is, you know, my, my son got a tumor in his stomach, but he was just beginning to talk. So he couldn't really tell us. And so that tumor crushed his spine. And you can imagine how painful that was. So finally, when we got him to get the MRI taken, which took a while because facilities in our area were only for adults and not for children. So he went, uh, he was diagnosed, and then that night they called us. That night, as soon as we got home from Children's Hospital, they called us and said, you have to come back tomorrow, your son has cancer. And so he had gone paralyzed, and walking with him around in the area with him in the wheelchair, I noticed how A lot of people diverted their eyes. They wouldn't make eye contact with him. They wouldn't make eye contact with me. And, you know, it was, it was, it was an awful experience, you know, just to know that people that are different with disabilities of any kind are typically shunned by the majority of our population. And so that struck a chord with me. So after my son passed, I had read a book When Bad Things Happen to Good People. And that was written by a rabbi whose son was diagnosed with a very rare disease where he died of old age at the age of 10 years old. And so he said to memorialize your child who passed away in some way. You don't have to do it every year, but you can, you know, do whatever it is that you love to do that would memorialize him. And while we were at the hospital, there was a playroom, but there really wasn't anything to play with. So my daughter, who was there trying to spend time with her family, had nothing like a Mr. Potato Head with one eye, you know, and the VCRs at that time, because that's the way that we watch TV. There was only 3 for the entire, entire unit. So I said, you know, let's do Memorial Run because that's what I did was run in our son's name and we'll donate the money to Four West, the cancer floor. And buy toys for the kids and for the siblings. And over the years, this, this is going to be our 39th annual, uh, wow, you know, fundraiser for Children's Hospital. And after about 10 years, Children's Hospital, they contacted me and they said, hey, we've noticed every year around the same time of the year that we get all these checks in your son's name because we send all the checks together. How would you like to start a foundation? And start what's called a child life program. And I said, well, what is a child life program? And it was perfect for what we wanted for the kids and the families. So the child life program on 4 West was founded from that idea of buying the kids toys. It's a doctor-free zone. They have, they have therapists there that help the children and the siblings either going through the process of chemo or, or coming to the end of their life. How do they deal with that? Do they make a memory book? Just— it's just to help the kids and it's all play-oriented. So it's play therapy for the family and the kids.

Amazing. So it sounds like you then took that into your work every day.

Well, I did. I actually, at that time, I worked at a grocery store for 11 years because I was not diagnosed with ADHD until I was in my 50s. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So I barely graduated high school. I was a horrible student back then. They didn't really have anything for kids with ADD or ADHD. We were just sent to the principal's office, told that we were bad, and got horrible grades. We couldn't sit still. I couldn't pay attention for a long time. It was awful. But I had started running in our community after the birth of my first child, Jackie, and the community college wanted me to run cross-country. And for me, it was horrifying. How could I go to college? I barely graduated high school. I was lucky I got my high school degree. But, you know, the coach finally— after Jacob passed away, I thought, what the heck, I'll give it a try. And what I did, Rebecca, was I applied the same techniques I used in training for a race to school. So I— wow. Yeah. So I used my daily planner, and I would— when my class projects were due, and I would work backwards of how to study for that specific— or when the paper was due, or study for an exam. And I spent so much time in the tutorial center, but it worked. I, I got to do what I— actually ended up graduating, uh, from the community college valedictorian, getting a partial scholarship to UCLA, and, and opening my own practice in helping hundreds of families.

So, oh my gosh, and, and now you have all these letters after your name.

I know, who would have thought, really? I mean, honestly, when I was in, um, junior high and high school, I probably would have been the least likely to succeed, um, honestly. But I think because, you know, well, because I have this drive, this inner drive somehow to survive, um, and That, along with finding something I was really good at, gave me confidence. You know, it had nothing to do with academics, but it was with my running through the running community. I was doing really well with running and triathlons, and I just applied those techniques to academics and was able to get through everything.

Well, I'm amazed by you already. I knew I would be. And, you know, I talk to moms every day. I'm, I'm surrounded by wonderful moms, but I know how much worry and anxiety that moms have. And I'm wondering if you could give moms a tip on how do they know if it's just normal worry and how do they know if it's like, I need professional help?

Well, I'm wondering what they're worried about. Like, is there something specific? Is it going on with their child? Is it typical behavior? Is it normal? There's so many books out there that are what's in the normal range for children. I would say to look at that, but If a parent is questioning anything, I'm not sure if you're talking about that the child's exhibiting. If they exhibit certain behaviors, then it could be a result of the child's own anxiety, or the child witnessed something traumatic, or something bad happened. You know, we talk about when children are aggressive, you know, when they're aggressive, are they acting out, you know, sexually? Are they acting out? I don't know what's happening. Is it just non-compliance? So depending on what the behavior is, I will tell you that, um, you know, a couple times I've been called in and a child has been aggressive and the parent may have bruises on them that could be from the child. But then a few times the parent has said, well, do you think this could be a learned behavior? So what does that tell you? A learned behavior? Well, who, who are they learning it from? They're learning it from the mother's partner, spouse, whatever the case may be. So I think it depends. If you give me a specific behavior, maybe we can elaborate on that.

I, you know, I was more thinking about the mom's anxiety. So our kids have anxiety and the parents have. So a lot of the moms that I talk to are having their own mom anxiety about, about life, about parenting, about being overwhelmed, about if they're doing it right.

I always say, you know, when we were, you know, we can have a child, we don't have to take a test. But when we drive a car, we have to have all— we know what the rules and regulations are. But as a parent, it's up to us to do the research. And even then, is that really the way you want to raise your child? You know, myself, I didn't have a role model because my mom left my family when I was 10 years old. My mom was an alcoholic and a drug addict. And so my dad end up raising all 3 of us, which back in the '60s was really unheard of for a mom to leave her family. And unfortunately, she succumbed to her addictions. And that's— so I was always questioning, you know, am I doing this right? I'm doing the best that I can. And I think that's what we have to look at. I also think that, you know, parents put a lot of pressure on themselves. Yeah. You know, and I think that's where, I think that's where a lot of the anxiety is. You see some parents and you don't know what to do. Like, you see some families, maybe a friend of yours is raising their child a certain way, but you're not so sure that that's the way you want to raise your child, you know? And then if you don't, are you going to be critiqued and criticized from those moms for not following along, you know, in that parenting style? But I think it's good for parents to question that. Why would you raise your child in a way just because your friends are doing it that way? If you don't really feel comfortable with your own, it comes down to what are your values? You know, what are your values in life? So I think if we instill good values and what your values are onto your kids, then it will fall into place. There, there has to be, I don't know if you wanna say discipline, consequences, boundaries. I mean, all these different terms really mean the same thing. Your, your child wants to know, they want you to set boundaries with them. And this is what I find interesting working with families who the parent wants to be the child's friend. You know, I mean, you could have a good mother-daughter, mother-son relationship with your child, but it's not your job to be their friend. It's your, their, your job is to be the parent and they're looking at you for that guidance. They may, protest because that's their job, especially when they become teenagers. You say black, they say white. You'll never agree, but they still want you to make those boundaries clear. It's so important to do that, and later in life it will pay off.

So do you feel like setting the boundaries, having consequences, that kind of thing, will help a child who's having anxiety issues? So let's, let's go back to the children who are having anxiety. How can we as parents help them?

I think you need to get to the root of the anxiety. So typically, if a child— and a child exhibits anxiety in different ways than adults, sometimes it's similar, but mainly with kids because they can't say what it is. So they may have a stomachache and they may go to the nurse's office while they're at school. So I would start to look at patterns in the behavior What topic in school are they teaching? Oh, you could say, okay, like little Rebecca. Rebecca seems to go to the office every day at 1 o'clock. I wonder what's going on. Well, she, she's fine up until 1 o'clock. She does really well with spelling, with writing. She goes to lunch and then right after lunch we do math. And every time at 1 o'clock, Rebecca will go to the nurse's office, complain of a stomachache and, and So we can look at that data and see, oh, maybe she's having problems with her math class. Let's see if we can get her extra help. How is she doing in that? And there you've, you know, you've already at least found the root cause of it. Now, that's not the full answer because you have to teach Rebecca some calming strategies and letting her know that she has help here. And if she gets anxious for a test, you know, you could start describing some symptoms. Maybe your heart starts to beat fast. Maybe you You feel dizzy, your stomach starts to hurt. So what can we do to help you overcome that anxiety?

That's really good advice. I know I talk to my kids about anticipatory anxiety. Can you explain to everybody what that is and how we can help our kids with that? I think we as moms have it too.

I think so too. So we can even take the math as an example again. So let's say for 1 week straight you've been going to the office. At 1 o'clock every day. But now in the morning, you're already starting to think, well, what happens if they don't send me to the office? What if we have a surprise math test at 10 o'clock? Now what if, what if, what if? So you're creating this in your mind and you've already started to become anxious now just by the thought of 1 o'clock coming around. You haven't even gotten to math yet. You haven't gone through that part of the day which you used to enjoy. So now you're taking the joy out of your life. It's starting to affect your other areas of academics at school. We really have to find out what's happening here so that we could help you. I also want to mention, too, that, you know, during COVID was a really difficult time for parents and kids as far as anxiety goes. And I did find, which was interesting, a lot of the root causes actually started with the parent being anxious about the kids being home. And so their anxiety was then carried over to their child's anxiety. And so I would treat— and typically I do treat the family as a whole because a lot of times the parent becomes an enabler, whether they are trying to or not, because we want to, you know, we're worried our child has a stomachache every every day. Oh my gosh, what's wrong? Of course, you get things checked out medically first to make sure there isn't physiological problem. And then once you've determined that they checked out medically, then you can start to look at other areas of what it was. But, but that, that's— I kind of lost where we were. I kind of lost my place where we were talking about everything.

Everything you're saying is helpful. I'm laughing at myself because I took my dog to the vet vet for his— he's having a leg issue, and I was so upset about it. And that tech is like, anxious mom, anxious dog.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah. And it's so right. So that's what happens. And it even, it even happens with the current, uh, family situation that I'm working with now. And I'm, you know, basically working with a daughter and giving her the tools she needs, and we're talking about her anxiety, but then the mom will say, you're just like me. I'm so anxious all the time. And this is how I was and this is how I was. And I still need to work on this. And I was thinking, this is not helping your daughter.

No.

You know, you have got to start using these. So I gave her my book. I said, here, read this. You really need to start using the same, applying the same tools and strategies that I'm working with your daughter. Yeah. So hopefully she will. Uh, I hope she does.

Yeah.

Oh, oh, oh. One thing I did wanna mention, I apologize, Rebecca. Yeah. Um, you know, Not only— I mean, consequences are, you know, there has to be consequences and boundaries, but I don't want people to forget it's equally and even more important to give the verbal praise for appropriate behavior and behaviors that we want to see more of. So I think a lot of the problems when I come into these homes or I go observe at a school, I observe out in the community, is that 9 times out of 10, the child is doing exactly what they're supposed to do. They're walking next to their mom in a parking lot. They're holding her hand. They're asking for something. But the minute that they do something they're not supposed to do, the mom is all over them. Or they, you know, you're not supposed to do that. Don't do that. Don't do this. Don't do it. Instead of saying, you're doing a great job walking next to me. I really like the way you're holding my hand. Good job in the parking lot. So none of that. It all goes unnoticed. So then the child starts engaging in negative attention-seeking behavior, and then the mom starts to get nervous. Why don't they listen? Why aren't they standing next to me? Why aren't they? Well, it's because you're not really paying attention and giving them that verbal reinforcement and feedback for following the directives that you've tried to instill in them.

Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. And we do get hung up on the negative stuff. So we have to remember that I'm guilty of that.

I'm guilty. As long as you're aware of it, then And that's the first step.

Yeah. I mean, they do 50 things right and we're talking about the one thing they did wrong. So that's not good.

No. And I always say that if it's a 4 to 1, 5 to 1 ratio, 5 positives to 1 negative, you're much better off. I notice that in classrooms and it's usually the classrooms that the teachers have been there a very long time. It's old school teachers. So you could say, Jimmy, put all four, you know, all four legs go on the floor. Jimmy, sit up. Jimmy, do this. Jimmy. Instead of saying, Rebecca, I really like the way Rebecca is sitting so nicely in her chair and working, then all the kids will sit up because they want you to do that, you know? So that's the pointed praise. But as a parent, especially if you're a working parent or if you have more than one child, you're rushing around the house. Your kids are playing quietly in the other room. How great is that? They're actually playing together and you're rushing to do the laundry. You're rushing to do this. And as soon as they start fighting, you start screaming and yelling at them. When instead, on your way to the laundry room, you could say, you know what, I really like the way you, Johnny and Jack, the way you're playing so nicely together. Good job, boys.

Yeah, I needed to hear that today. See, you're a good messenger. You know, you talked about a couple of really good triggers. I think math is a really good one for for my daughter. I think tests, another good one for my children. What other common triggers are you seeing with children that makes them behave differently, have anxiety, those kind of things?

Well, I think socially on the playground. I mean, now it's like there's no supervision. I, I mean, there used to be parent volunteers out there. I don't know why they don't have them anymore. And they're so crowded on the playground and it's a free-for-all. It is a free-for-all out there, really. It's true. And, you know, and it's not— it could be bullying, or it could just be aggressive play. It could be anything, but there's nobody monitoring. And then not only monitoring, but is there— can there be somebody facilitating appropriate play? Because then it becomes anxiety-provoking. What if you are being picked on, or what if you're not? What if you're isolated and you're by yourself and you're walking around the perimeter of the playground hoping somebody will ask you to play. There's all these different things involved. So I think those could be anxiety-provoking situations.

The unsupervised time for sure.

Oh, unsupervised and not teaching. Like, okay, I get my break now. The teacher, go ahead and play, go have your snack. So it is, it's a free-for-all. How are they going to teach appropriate play? Okay, everybody, I want this group to stand in the line of 5, this line, and we're going to play ball and we're going to do this. Just teaching the rules of the playground and appropriate play, I think, is huge. So that would be socially, I think. But then, then you have to teach social skills. So whose responsibility is that? Is it the playground supervisor? Good luck. I mean, is there a playground supervisor? There should be, but I'm not sure what their skills are or what they are supposed to do within their, you know, their job title. But you also mentioned test-taking. I wanted to say that a big part of my program or plan, because I write individual plans for each person and my staff that I have here, that's what they do. We collect data, we have the parent take the data, we write a treatment plan specifically for that family. But what I will tell you, which might help your kids as well, is the, the one of the first things I came up with in my practice was called the Signal Plan. And that is because it's so— it's generalized. Everybody knows that there's a signal. Red means stop, yellow means make a choice, and green means go, right? So if you practice these skills before a test, then, you know, you get a negative thought. So negative— a thought creates an emotion, and that emotion is exhibited through our behavior. So this is why cognitive behavioral therapy, and their behavioral therapy goes so well. So that thought, that negative thought creates an emotion of fear, of anxiousness, of worry. And then that is exhibited through our behavior, which could be a stomachache, feeling dizzy, you know, not wanting to do something, avoidance from a situation. So with the Signal Plan, it's if you get a negative thought in your head, you have to think of the color red. Red means stop. I'm going to stop that negative thought. I'm going to replace it with something positive. I've practiced for this test. I've worked on my flashcards. I know I can do a good job. Yellow means make a choice. You're going to make a choice to take the test and, and you're going to be okay. And green means go, go or start. So you're going to take a couple of deep breaths in through your nose, out through your mouth, and you're going to be calm. And now if you aren't calm yet, you go back to red again and then red, yellow, green. And it really does. Help the situation. But I always say to my clients, you have to practice. You have to practice when you're not anxious so that when you do start to become anxious or anticipatory anxiety, you can use the signal plan right away.

Well, and I love that because any age can use that plan.

Oh, I've used it as young as 3 years old.

Yeah, any age. I mean, I, I'm telling you, me in my forties, you can use that plan every day. Yeah.

And when you're driving in the car, you look, oh, look, it's a red light. What does mommy need to do? Stop. That's right. Like when we're not— you like when we feel that we're not good enough, we need to stop that thought. Like Mommy's stopping at the light, you know, things like that. So if you start to incorporate examples that are tangible to them that they could see, it's even better. And have them then have them a part of it. And what does yellow mean? And what does green mean? What do we do? That's great.

I definitely should have started that at a young age, but it's never too late.

It's never too late.

I do talk to them about replacing their thoughts, but I like the light. I liked the visual lights to teach my kids. Yeah, to go through it, because we talk about the replacing of thoughts and practicing, but I really like that you use lights. It's a good way to visualize it.

It is, because they're everywhere. And, um, and for my clients, I actually make little— we make little cards, um, laminated cards, red, yellow, and green. And in my book, it gives you the data sheets on how to take data for the behavior. It talks about about using the signal card and how to look that up online. It's, it's in black and white in the book, but you can find them online and just print them out.

Perfect. Well, and I know we talked about moms feeling overwhelmed. I think that's the biggest complaint that I get from moms is that they're so overwhelmed. Do you have any simple strategies you can throw out there to the moms listening who are feeling it as we're talking?

Sure. So there are You know, I think routine is always helpful. You know, if you have a routine in your life, and I know that you can know the routine only goes so far because something happens either in the morning where your child's sick or the coffee maker's broken or whatever it is, you know, that happens that day. But I say a routine in the morning. What I like to wake up early. I don't know what time they have to get out of the house. Some people aren't early risers, but if they could have some quiet time to themselves, just like 15 minutes in the morning to themselves? And are they, are they making their kids' lunches or the kids buying? Because typically if you make the lunches the night before, it's easier, you have a smoother morning. And also to take time for themselves after the kids get out the door. You know, you should go for a walk or do something for yourself to kind of, you know, if you like to swim, if you like to walk, whatever it is, I think that helps. It helps me balance my energy and my time, uh, to be able to, to get that. And it creates those endorphins, right? Which makes us a happier person. I think it's important for moms to know you're doing the best you can. You know, you do the best that you can with what you've got. You're not gonna be graded at the end of the day. Your kids are who they are. You can help them, and still, like I said, instill your values, what's important to you, and instill that into them. But give yourself some— cut yourself some slack. You know, for me, I had no role model. I was— that was it. You know, I was at 10 years old, I was on my own. So I was questioning, you know, and then my son died. So how could I be there for Jackie at 5 years old? I tried the best I could. But we all— as long as you're trying the best you can. And what another suggestion I will make is if you're going to try a new parenting style, or any advice that's given to you, try it for a period of time. Don't start, stop, start, stop, because you have to give something enough time to see if it's actually going to work. What I would suggest is start with positive praise in the beginning and start with, you know, positive praise for your kids. It'll make you feel better. It honestly will make you feel better if you're feeling overwhelmed for the day. Make a plan to get up just a few minutes earlier, like I said, 15, 20 minutes, and cut out some time for yourself. That's so important to have time for yourself because you can get so caught up in your thoughts. And have the parent— the parent should be using their own signal plan, really, for the anxiety. And, you know, is there— is— tell me, because my kids are old. I actually spend more time with my grandkids now, and I, I'm loving every minute of They're 10 and 7. So I know I only have a few years left before they start playing with other kids and not want to hang out with—

I know, it's so sad.

I know, the grandparents anymore. But what is it that the moms are mainly overwhelmed with? That they're— is it that they're not doing— having the right parenting style? Is it that they have to plan too many extracurricular activities? Can you give me an idea of what they're feeling?

Of course I can. Um, I think that you hit on some of it. I think that the self-talk that I hear from moms a lot is that they're not good enough, they're not doing enough, they're, they're critical of themselves. But I think the overwhelm is that, you know, my husband does a lot to help. Like, we're partners, we do a lot, we both do. I think a lot of moms feel like it's all on them, and I can still feel that way sometimes. You know, the kids, the job, the activities, you know, the social calendar, the— everything is kind of on the mom. So I think that that's why they get so overwhelmed.

Yes. Well, things have not changed much, but you know, sometimes— and I don't know if this is possible at all— but you know what I did used to do and what I recommend too is carpooling if possible, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

Getting— setting up carpools. And then if you're driving your child to a practice of some sort, what can you do while you're there? Can you take a few minutes and sit in your car and read a book, or do you have to actually watch the practice every single time? Or can you just go in and watch the last 10 minutes of the practice? Because having— again, having that time to yourself, no matter— even if it's a takeout 15-minute nap in your car to kind of rejuvenate yourself.

Really good advice.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that those— that's good. You don't have to watch the whole hour practice. No. And you know what? I will tell you something. I, I was in graduate school. I was working. I was the room mom. My younger daughter doesn't remember all the time I put into being a room mom. And I did it, you know, for her and for her. She doesn't remember. So, you know, tell your parents that too. They're only going to remember so much. And it's okay not to, to sign up for everything. Your child will be okay. You don't have to sign up for everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I know that you talk about obsessive thoughts, so I want to move to that.

Okay.

So, so when a child is struggling with obsessive thoughts, how can parents help them? Them? What can we do?

I think, you know, depending on what the obsessive thoughts are— one, one, I'm working with a child right now in particular, and her obsession really was with not eating enough. You know, it happened, it all happened because she had got food poisoning. So that's how this whole thing started. So it started out with her having food poisoning and afraid to eat out again because of the food poisoning. But then it snowballed into checking every label that she ate and then restricting her calories and then losing— I know— a lot of weight. So it's important to get a hold of those obsessions right away. I think that, again, taking data on when did this start, because a lot of parents don't actually realize when a behavior starts. We can even talk about skin picking, for example. So that's an obsessive compulsive disorder, skin picking. And so once you, you know, if you— once this family came into my office and we tried to pinpoint when the first time it happened, we knew that there was a traumatic event involved, you know, an anxiety-provoking traumatic event. Then thinking that the skin picking was going to give this individual some type of relief, which it didn't. But they kept trying to use that. Then the mom said, and this is actually in my book, the mom said, you know, I'm a skin picker too. And in fact, my sister is. So they— this mom and the sister use this as a coping strategy, which is not a healthy coping strategy. Somehow the daughter picked up on it and the daughter started engaging in this behavior. Obsessive compulsive disorder. The longer you engage in a behavior— this is any behavior— the harder it is to change. It's not impossible, but it's harder. So remember we talked about cognitive behavioral therapy is how do you change your negative thoughts? Yeah. The behavioral part of it is how do we change our environment to help us change the behavior? So, for example, I would put up signal cards. I would make them and have the parents put them up in the house. Red, yellow, green. So it's a visual. Oh, that's right. I need to stop. Stop, make a choice, and take a deep breath. So stopping yourself from engaging in that obsessive con— you know, whatever that behavior is, but also a replacement behavior. So if you're going to take away a behavior, you've got to have a replacement behavior, or more than likely it won't be successful. You think of people that try to stop smoking, right? Or stop smoking. We would change the environment. We might put up a picture of somebody with with throat cancer, which is awful, but you put it up because that's the reality of it, right? We also put up the signal plan and maybe some sugar-free lollipops because the lollipop would be the replacement behavior. So, so giving a hand fidget or some type of keychain to your child, I think hand fidgets are great. They make so many of them now. What I use with my clients is the Boat keychain because it's small and it can fit inside your pocket and it's squishy. Because the, you know, it has to float if it falls in the water, a boat keychain. So my advice would be find out what those thoughts are. And also, when did it start? Giving a replacement behavior and then putting up visuals around the house, you know, like even a visual, stay calm, think positive. Those are great visuals. Like, oh, that's right. I'm supposed to stay. I can stay calm. I can take some deep breaths and stay calm.

I'm loving all of it, and I'm, and I'm wondering if what you're going to say, because I want to ask you about fetishes, if everything you just said also applies to handling fetishes that, that our children might have. Um, can you talk about what that is?

Sure. So, um, a fetish— well, the one in my book in particular is, and I've had some other cases, usually what happens is when they come to see me, they've gotten in trouble by the law or, or their apartment building because, you know, one client in particular, um, he almost got beat up because he was only 19, but he moved out of the house and he was stealing lingerie from the dryer. So that was his fetish, to dress up in lingerie, you know. Um, then other clients, it just depends what their fetish is. This one in the book in particular He ended up developing his fetish because he was going through his teenage years and he was— I don't know how much— how— I'm not going to be graphic, but he was masturbating in the bathroom and in the bathroom happened to be some dirty diapers. And so those dirty diapers got associated with him reaching orgasm and masturbating. So then he thought that, you know, the two became paired together.

I gotcha.

Right. So it depends on is it, is it fetish? Like this was a fetish, right? Or is it just an obsessive compulsive disorder in the fact that like we've had other clients where they just need to collect things, you know, like a hoarder, for example. That's somebody that was never called out, you know, on their fetishes or I'm sorry, on their obsession. So a hoarder. And I've been in plenty hoarding houses and another, but we had another client who we thought it was an obsession with the shoes that he was collecting, but actually he would take those shoes into his bed. And so that was his fetish. So I think I shouldn't laugh.

It's not funny.

No. Well, you know, some of us like, really, this is happening and they're not always that open with you at first. You're kind of like a detective when you go into these situations and narrow down like, like, I know what you're doing now, I get it. But if you explain to them that, look, as long as your fetish is not hurting yourself, if you're not hurting anybody else, if you're not breaking the law— because that's where you end up getting into trouble, you know. Um, do you, you know, did you break into the high school locker room to steal the bathing suits? Yes, you did. Did you, um, you know, did you go into a dumpster outside of a preschool? Yes, you did. Okay, well, these things are going to get you in trouble. So I think to acknowledge that, yes, you have this, how can you live with it? How can you maybe change it to where it's— this is not the only thing that's going to excite you or to get you the gratification that you need. Does that make sense?

Makes total sense. And you've got some colorful cases. Yeah.

Never a dull moment, Rebecca.

You know, there's never a dull moment as a therapist or a parent. That is what I think. So, so if you could give parents one piece of advice to leave them with today, what would you, what would you leave parents with? Because you've given them so much advice today.

I am— well, what I'd like to leave a couple if I could. Um, one I think is so important. Well, there's one is don't be so hard on yourself as a parent. Stop it already. You know, there's so much stuff out there. I think about— I do remember when my mom was still with us at the house when I was younger and she was reading Dr. Spock. You know, that was Dr. Spock. Who knows what advice he was giving? I don't know. It wasn't good because she left. But no, it was okay. It worked out better for us. But, Another one would be, so don't quit being hard on yourself. Make sure you carve out at least 30 minutes of the day for yourself. You've got to have 30 minutes. I don't care if you're walking, having a cup of coffee, sitting on the deck, whatever it is, you've got to have 30 minutes. You'll be better parent. You'll be better for your kids and your family. And the next is really start to focus on, are you giving that verbal positive reinforcement? If you want to see You see your child engage more in a behavior that you like, then praise it and be specific about what— don't say good boy, good girl. Be specific on what it is you like they did. I really like the way you're doing your homework. Great job. I only had to ask you once and there you are. Fantastic. Right? So there's that. And thirdly, what I would say is sometimes Sometimes parents will come in to see me because they're concerned about their child exhibiting some sexual behaviors or whatever, when really it comes down to is they had no education on, on, on their hormones changing, on feelings that they're going to be having, whatever it is, to normalize the situation. You've got— you yourself as a parent, read a book. If it's a good book, share it with your child. You guys read it together. I don't care if you're reading just a paragraph a night. You've got to have that open dialogue to teach them what they're feeling is okay. It's all right to have these feelings. You're curious, you're confused. This is a confusing time. Your body's going through physiological changes. Talk about it with them. I think it's so important.

Well, and I love that you used the word normalize because as you're talking, I'm picturing my daughter rolling her eyes at me and I'm like, you know, Well, teenagers, a lot of it's normal.

If she didn't roll her eyes at you, if she didn't say— if you said black and she didn't say white and she was agreeing with you all the time, then I would be concerned.

Okay, that's good. That's good to know. I needed that today. Well, is there anything else that you want to share that I didn't ask you about?

Um, I don't think so. Nothing comes to mind right now. That I can think of.

Can you tell everyone where they can go find you?

Yes, you can find me at laurysingerbehavioral.com, and that will take you to my website. And from there you can either look at the company or I believe there's something on— you can connect to my book website as well, which is you'renotcrazybook.com, I believe. Not sure. You're not crazy book.com. It is. And on there you'll find different podcasts and other events that we've done that you might find interesting. A lot of different podcasts, all different kinds.

Awesome. Well, I can't thank you enough for your time and your expertise today.

Oh, it was fun. Thank you. I enjoyed it.

This is Rebecca Greene, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, Please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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