Who is "The House of Body Language" • INTRO

Yes, thank you Sophia for being here and we want to welcome people that is joining us right now. We are talking, we are on the Go with the Flow conversation with Rene Deceuninck, body language expert, and we're going to explore body language tips and micro expressions in our everyday life, in career, in intimate relationships, and we're going to go with the flow. So Rene, welcome!

Thank you for the introduction, and welcome to you as well, and welcome to Sophia.

It is so lovely to be here. So we're going to, to, to use, to have a roadmap in order to share the frame how we're going to do it today. We're going to share a few things, uh, what do Rene Deceuninck doing, how and why he's doing it, how it became this, and all his journey. And then through the journey, through the open-ended questions, we're going to find out this magic of body language, how helped Rene and how, through his journey, how he will help you. And we're going again to see this roadmap through the microexpressions perspective. And Sophia can make questions, uh, and other people that will slowly, slowly join us can also share and make questions for us. So Rene, let's start, uh, with you starting. Uh, what do you do?

Um, okay, thank you for that, um, question. It's a very interesting question because I do a lot, a lot of things. But in terms of the personal development industry, I teach body language to people in business, and I do that worldwide, from Australia, Thailand, the Middle East, Europe in general, and then in the US as well. And what I found out is that a lot of people underestimate the power of nonverbal communication, which is, I mean, you know that too, Roxane, is 55% body language, 38% is tonality. And when I ask people, when you have a conversation with somebody, do you pay attention to your body language? You know, and most people say, oh no, well, yeah, why should I? I said, okay, that's interesting. I said, do you pay attention to your tonality? They go, tonality? No, no, I'm just me. I said, yeah, that's good, good. But if you would pay attention to your tonality and your body language, would you agree that your results will be completely different? Maybe from a higher quality. And I always say, oh, how does that work? And it's funny how it can influence a person when you start understanding how it works, how the brain works, how you can actually use body language for your own benefits, right? And maybe a little story about that. I was invited in Dallas. I was in a hair salon summit. People say, what are you doing in a hair salon summit? I said, well, speaking about body language, right? What is the relationship with between a hairdresser and, and body language is that when people go to a hair salon, what do they talk about? 80% of the time they talk about their misery, or something happened, something bad happened, or there was a divorce, or the washing machine broke down, or whatever, right? There's always, did you see that on television? Oh my goodness, happened, this happened, this happened. And it's a bit sad, but it is what it is. And today more than ever, people complain. And, and where do they go to complain? With the hairdresser. And a hairdresser is 50% hairdresser, 50% psychologist, right? And because they have to listen to all these things. And I said, do you realize that when that person is sitting in the chair, is looking into the mirror, they can see you? Is that correct? And they said, yes, correct. Okay. I said, do you realize if you change your body language, you can actually moderate a conversation and change the subject? And they go like, hmm. I said, let's do the test. So I asked for a couple of people to come on stage and do a practice, an exercise. And they went on stage and they said, listen, you are sitting in a chair and you can see the hairdresser, right? And the hairdresser, I said, can you change this like this and change this like this? And we did that exercise. It was amazing how that conversation changed. From a negative to a positive. And to be frankly honest with you, I did not know what I was going to talk about when I left for Dallas. They said, you're going to a hair salon. I said, what am I going to talk about in a hair salon? And actually, I started thinking when I was flying there, I think, let's do it like this. And that is actually such a big statement that when you change your body language, you can actually moderate a conversation in a completely different direction, if that makes sense. I don't know if that makes sense.

Yes, it makes absolutely sense. And all these professions, like Sophia is an aesthetician that is coming in connection and contact with so many people. And like hairdresser with the mirror, that there is this reflection and mirroring and also adding the mirror neurons that everybody's seeing you. So they will, if you are angry, you have an angry face. They will— it will come automatically to them to imitate subconsciously. So we have to be very conscious about the body language and the facial expression of communication. And, um, so what you, you do, it is you do some miracles to the people around. You are giving them advices how to communicate best, how to connect with people, and how to influence with people. This is what you do.

Yeah, this, the last time I was doing a DBA was about negotiating negotiation strategies. And it's about how do you negotiate? How do you negotiate that both parties have a win situation? So you create a win-win. How do you do that? But to come back, for example, to the hair salon thing, I said to somebody, How can you make people laugh? And you start by laughing yourself, right? And how do you do that? You put the tip of your tongue against the palate. Automatically, you create a smile. If you keep it there for 15 seconds, you will also release endorphins. You know that tingling, right? And they're like, huh? I said, yeah, try it. And they tried it, and actually, people started laughing. They had so much fun with it. Just by putting the tip of your tongue against the palate. Again, you start and you create a smile, but when people see you smiling, automatically you'll smile. Yes, there's enough videos on, on, on metros and on trams and on buses when people and they, they have a smile and they start laughing, people around that person start laughing too. It's normal, right? But to get back to the negotiation strategies, I was in, in the Middle East not that long ago and, um, and I was doing a DBA, a Doctor of Business Administration, which is a university level, and with 250 CEOs. And what happened is that people negotiate and they talk. And I said, you should talk less and ask more questions, right? The best moderators on this planet are the people who ask questions. And I go like, which questions? I said, open questions. So people have to come with a story. So what is it that you do? Why do you do it? How do you do it? For who is this? Where do you do it? How does that work? Where can people find all these W questions and H? What, why, where, when, who, which, and how. When you start your questions with these words and then you have to zip it, and that's another problem with a lot of people, they can't zip it. And then you zip it and then you wait. And funny enough, nobody likes silence. Nobody. Everybody wants to— there has to be some noise, somebody has to speak. So, but when you are zipping it and you don't say anything anymore, people will start talking. So you ask questions, say, hey, why did you come here? Or what is the purpose of you being here? Or hey, listen, where did you go on holiday last year? People can't say yes or no. They have to come up with a story. And it's like, wow, that's an amazing story. So, so why did you go there? Okay. And how, and who did you meet there? And how was the food? And, and we're like, wow. And people talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. When people speak to you, it gives you the freedom of reading their body language, reading their microexpressions. By reading the body language and what they say, is there congruence? Yes or no? Are they lying to you? Because they look up left, up right, right, which is connected to the brain. Right brain, left brain, right eye, left eye. I'll, I'll share that later on. And you can find out so many beautiful things, and it gives you time for your next question as well. So when people do the talking, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, you got time. You observe, you think, hey, my next question could be based on that. And in fact, by asking questions They do all the talking. You get so much information, and with that information you can work. And the last part of asking questions is that you give the person you ask questions to the significance because they can do the talking. People who don't know nothing about psychology and nothing about body language or microexpressions, they love talking. So let them talk. Just ask a question. That's all. And that is in negotiation Strategies. That was a question, right? It's so super important to ask questions. There was a guy, he was applying for a job and the people in the room were talking and talking and all of a sudden the guy was asked by one of the managers, why don't you say so much? Why are you so silent? And the guy said the best speakers are the best listeners. And they asked that person to leave. And 3 days later he got the job. And he says, I thought I was like asked to be leaving. Why do I get the job? He says, you were the first person out of 135 who said, who gave us the right answer. The best speakers are the best listeners.

Yes, of course, because you can understand the need also. You can understand the need. Of the other person, what they're feeling, in which situation they are. And if you know the situation that they are in, then you can continue the conversation maybe in another perspective, maybe from another way, not what you thought in the beginning, the conversation. So you have to adapt, you adapt like how you are sharing. I like this, and I like the negotiation, the job interview. And next week I have a seminar about job interview, so I would like to give me some advices to share to the young people, one body language advice that I can share with them. And I will say that Mr. Rene Deceuninck has given me this advice. So if you want to share one and—

Yeah, in job interviews, it's important to be yourself in the first place. Be you. When I travel, and depends on the situation and depends on the people in customs, But when I travel, sometimes the questions being asked is like, hey, where are you from? Where are you going? Or you're from that country, you go to that country, you know, customs. And sometimes they ask me, what do you do for a living? I said, well, I teach body language and businesses. And okay, okay, can I ask you a question? I say, yeah, sure, you can ask me any question. He says, what does my body tell you? And then my answer is always the same. You don't want to know. And then they start laughing. And, and, and, but I add to it, if you are just you, be you, don't fake it. Because you can fake it until you make it. That's, that's a saying, that's a quote. That's short-term result. Long-term, just be you. And, and that's true for applying for jobs. Or job interviews. That's true for relationships. That's true in business. That's true everywhere. Just be yourself. Don't fake it. And especially in relationships, in the beginning, you know, the first 3 months in a relationship, I mean, woo, right? Roses and moonshine. But then after 3 months, reality kicks in, and then the real person comes to the surface. Not all the time, but most of the times. And that's when life gets serious. Okay, but if you don't fake it and you're just you, you'll know immediately who's in front of you, right? That's the first thing for people who are applying for jobs. The second thing is that what I would advise tremendously is before you go in any interview is to do breathing exercises. Breathing exercises will calm you down. And I was watching Jay Shetty and Will Smith, they did some skydiving in Dubai. And I saw Jay Shetty doing breathing exercises, and then, um, Radhi, his wife, came along, and then they explained why they do breathing exercises. It's very important to calm yourself down because if you can control your breathing, you can actually control your state. That means when you, when you, when you are angry, you have a certain way of breathing. When you're happy, you have a certain way of breathing. When you're sad, you have a certain way of breathing. So if you can control your breathing You can control every situation. That's why breathing exercises are very important. Um, this— the first one, be you. Breathing exercises, make sure you're well prepared when you apply for a job. Make sure you're prepared. And what I do, uh, before going on a stage, for example, I ask the universe for guidance. And as corny as it sounds, but I do that. I ask the universe, hey universe, I'm going to deliver for these people. It is not about me. I'm just a delivery boy. Can you guide me? Can you give me the right information so these people get enough benefits from what I'm going to share with them? Example, right? And that's what I would advise as well to people who are applying for a job. Ask the universe for guidance and to do the right thing.

That's nice. Thank you.

Breathing exercises and be you. And make sure you're well prepared, of course.

Oh, I like it. So I like it a lot. Sophia, I think that you're doing some facial yoga. We're live on YouTube. So do you want to share something of this? Maybe for relaxation, because it looks so cute.

So yeah, a connection between the microexpression and how you can relax the muscles if you are tense all day, just to have them do a smile, as you say. So it's very easy for me, especially in this part of the area, because we move it, we speak all the time. So it's a little bit stressed. And I'm talking about the people that they are over 40s, it's more usual that they have to make some kind of massage. And the other is the eyes, because they work every day for 40,000 open close and open the eyes. So it is a stress and it comes here for forehead. So the massage of the face yoga, it helps a lot to the micro expression, just to be more relaxed and to have the power that you control your own expressions, even to the body. Because the face yoga, it has to do the way that you are stand, that the back of the arms and down, and you have the deep breath, inhale and the exhale, that it's very important. The most exhale that we have, the most oxygen you get. So some this kind of the tips that everyone they can use if they want to have the perfect expression and the very strong the power of the body language.

Okay, did you, did you say facial yoga? Yeah, I never heard about that.

Yeah, the facial yoga, it's like that you exercise the muscles of your face, and even you can make them not shrinking the muscles, but they have a more open, relaxed, even with the movements. Or you can make like kind of massage.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm in this industry for 30 years and it's the first time I hear about facial yoga. It's interesting. Yeah, absolutely.

So it's, it is combined with what you are doing with the facial expression and the body language also. It helps.

Awesome. Now, Roxane, can I ask you a question? Why microexpressions?

Why microexpressions? Microexpressions, for me, it is combining two things. First, it helped me a lot with my self-awareness because I detect my own face and I can easily catch if I am on stress, even unconscious. If it is unconscious, it can catch my stress levels or it can catch something if I don't like something. Or so automatically I do the expressions and then I say, oh my God, Roxane, you have to do something else. Subconsciously, other people are reading you. And so you have to know if— so this is one for me. Self-awareness raises my deep connection with my body. The second, it is for public speaking when I coach people. I can dive deep to their feeling, how it is, how well it is connected, their words with their emotions. Even if it is a business talk, if it is, even if it is statistics, always there is a feeling. How I feel about this, this statistic, how I feel about what I'm sharing, what is happening, this storytelling that I'm sharing on stage. So if sudden Microexpression comes out, then I can have a conversation with my coachee and reflect on the session and guide him or her to have a better— to see what is the trigger and then to be released from this trigger. I'm not a psychologist, they have then to do something else separate, but me, but we will raise the awareness the recognition, and then we can reframe things in order to connect and have more authentic talk and speech. So, but it started from self-awareness, actually.

Okay, but then in terms of like microexpressions and the brain, I think there's a connection as well in the sense that the right brain is the emotional brain and the left brain is the rational brain, however connected diagonally with your eyes, right?

Yes.

So what I teach people as well is that when you talk about rational things, you look with the right eye in the right eye. So you connect the left brain with the left brain. So the quality of your conversation, the quality of the results are far more higher. And they go like, what? Can you explain that again?

Look at my— look at this eye, please. Look at this.

So, and it needs some training in a sense that— but when I say your right eye is your rational, your left eye is your emotional what I would do, for example, what ladies do when they seduce a man, they would look with the left eye and the left eye, which is the emotional eye, into the emotional eye. So they connect the right brain with the right brain, the emotional brain. But then what they will do as well, they will turn a little bit like this. I'm exaggerating right now, right?

Yes.

Like this. And they will free up the left part of the neck, which is also the emotional part of the body. So we have the left eye, the left ear, the left part of the body. So when a lady will seduce, she would look with the left eye and the left eye and show her left part of her body, and most of the men will melt.

Okay. Hey Nino, how you doing?

Sophia, you can try if you want.

Hello Nino, welcome.

Hi, thank you.

Nino is a very dear friend. He's moment— uh, momentarily in, um, in Belgium, is it?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, a very dear friend of mine, a traveler, a world traveler, a world traveler.

Welcome, that's nice.

Welcome, man, appreciate you being here.

Thanks. Of course.

Um, so yeah, and, and in terms of seducing, I mean, that happens, but for example, in business, uh, discussions or business conversations, um, and it's about numbers, it's about being rational, it's about being specific, what I will do most of the time is look with my right eye in the right eye of that person and ask questions, rational questions about the business. But once we start about, hey, and tonight we're gonna have a dinner, I will switch from the right eye to the left eye, which is the emotional eye. Look in the left eye, say, hey, we're gonna have dinner, you know, do you know a restaurant in the neighborhood here? And so you switch from rational to emotional and And most of the time, the quality of those conversations is from such a high level, it blows your mind once you start practicing it. Yeah, absolutely.

That's nice. I love this approach. And I would like to ask you, I know the story behind Rene Deceuninck. I mean, some part what you have said to me when we have our first conversation on YouTube again. Why, why you do this body language? Why you love body language? Why you do it actually?

Well, you know, the why is, is always the most important thing in whatever you do in life, right? Most people say they know what they do, they know how to do it. But when you ask people, why do you do what you do? Most of the people, they have to think about that, which is a bit like I don't know, it's a bit of a— but when you know why you do what you do, which is 80% of all your results, you know, you will see your results will go through the roof when you know why you do what you do. It's the fuel in your vehicle. But why, for me, my why was, uh, I was about 6, 7 years old, and I'm born and raised in Belgium, and, um, I was watching people and I was always wondering, why do people say things, the things they say? And their body says it differently. I was like, something is like, doesn't match, right?

There's a non-congruency.

And I did not know nothing about body language at that time anymore, you know, 6, 7 years old, come on. And then later on, I joined the forces and I was a teacher in forces as well, was in the Navy. From the Navy, I went to engineering, bridges and roads and stuff. And then to jumping out of airplanes and then flying those airplanes. But I was also a teacher in the forces, and it was also fascinating to see the body language of certain people and then asking yourself, like, why this?

Why?

I mean, I couldn't get things together. And until 1995, when I started my business, I started going far more in depth in, in body language, nonverbal communication, and communication in general, and sales and negotiation strategies. And somebody said to me, I said to somebody, you know, I've got such an amazing company, but I have no clients. How come? And they said, Rene, you have to have a niche. And I was like, and I'm talking about 1995, it's 30 years ago. I say, yeah, that's true. That's, yeah, I have to have a niche. That's correct. And I went home asking myself, hmm, what's a niche? That's where I started, right?

Of course.

I did not know what a niche was. And I said, I did some research, found out. And in those days, I mean, there was no Google like Google today. There was definitely not an AI, ChatGPT, whatever. That didn't exist at all. My first phone was like a brick, like an old Nokia.

Yeah.

But anyway, and what happened is that I was invited to a body language free seminar. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, body language, come on, leave it. You guys go, and when you come back, tell me what happened. You know, delegating. And, uh, but long story short, they, uh, they kept asking me, kept asking me, and then, and then I went anyway. Best decision ever, because I started finding out, why do we do what we do? Why does the brain work the way it works? Why, etc., etc.? And I had so many questions, and all my questions got answered through the knowledge of non-verbal communication, also the study of the brain, and so on and so on. So why do I do that? Is because I'm so curious why people do what they do and say what they say. It's pure curiosity. And if I can help people by sharing my knowledge now, 30 years later, um, about all of that, the secrets— I call it the secrets, the knowledge, and the benefits of body language— if I can share it with somebody and they improve their lives by all means, give me a call, I would say. And I do a lot of these things for, for non-profit as well, because I want people to know how it works and what they can get out of it and to enhance people's life.

Yeah, that's lovely. Yeah, that's lovely. I like it a lot, your story. I have heard it again and I like it to hear. And it's about Because when you are so young, 6 years old, to think about it, and, uh, it's amazing.

It's also the belief that, you know, I think I shared that before with you, is that my basic diploma is hotel school. So I'm a certified chef in terms of diplomas. And people say, how do you go from hotel school certified chef to fly airplanes in the forces, or jump out of an airplane, or being an engineer, or being where you are today? It actually has nothing to do with the diploma. I encourage all young people to go for a diploma, go to school. If you can go to university, please go. But it is not a guarantee for life. It's not a guarantee for success in business. It's not a guarantee. I mean, Jack Ma from Alibaba, he once said, I am the dumbest guy on the team, but I surround myself with smart people. You know what I mean? And so go to school, get a diploma for sure. Make sure you have that general education, but make sure to have a big dream too. And my dream was to, you know, my first dream was joining the Navy based on the bullying in school. People say you're a good-for-nothing, you're not going to make it, who do you think you are? Negativity, negativity, negativity. And I was going to show the world that I was good for something. So I joined the Navy, and then people say, why would you do that? I said, watch me, I'll show you. And then I joined the ground troops to become an engineer. Why? Because people were being negative to me. So they actually fueled me. And it was only till 1995 that I realized I don't have to prove myself to anybody, because I was saying, watch me, I'll show you. And today I'll say watch me, I'll show me. Have you ever saw that video from Snoop Dogg?

Ah, Snoop Dogg, yes.

I thank me for never giving up. I thank me for being courageous. I thank me, you know. And that is actually what you— what people should do is thanking themselves for what you do and what you realize in life. And actually, in 1995, I started changing that mindset, and that's why it started growing as well. Yeah.

Why 1995? It was an event, or you think because it was the maturity, the self-actualization came up and kicked off?

Um, I'm not going to make any promotional videos or publicity, but my journey started in fact by signing up for Amway.

Oh, oh, okay.

Soap and cosmetics and whatever.

Yes, cosmetics.

And that was, that was the beginning of my journey.

Okay, then it's okay.

That was the beginning also of being, getting in contact with Jack Canfield and Brian Tracy and, and Zig Ziglar and all these you know, famous speakers.

Yes.

And then I actually, years later, I started sharing stages with them. And it's all about thinking here and then actually things are happening, right? So for example, in 1995, I bought my first book from Tony Robbins, Notes from a Friend. It's a very tiny book. You can read it in less than 2 hours. Very inspiring book. And I said, wow, one day I'm going to work with that guy. And everybody said, Rene Deceuninck, this is not going to happen. Tony Robbins, he's a multi-billionaire, he lives in the US, and blah blah blah, who do you think you are? He's going to make time for you. I said, I don't know, I just have the feeling. They said, stop dreaming, man, this is not going to happen. I said, watch me, right? I'll show me.

Yes, yes.

And what happened actually, so many years later, uh, I collaborated with Tony and, and with the company that represented him, Success Resources, from Singapore.. And it's only in 2023, after a full decade, that I said, hey, I have to move on with my own company as well. And I left the boat. I left that ship. But this is the fact that if you want something in life, first of all, you believe in it, and then you start asking the universe for guidance, and then you have to put the work into it and believe it. And you keep believing, you keep believing, and one day it will happen. But you have to be patient. And that's what I had to learn because I have no patience at all. If people say, Rene, when should we do this? I said yesterday.

What?

I have no patience at all. I mean, I see Nino laughing, right? It's who you are and be patient. And that happened with the Dalai Lama too in 2002 when my dad died sadly in 2002. I had a dream of meeting the Dalai Lama because when I was 11 years old, I got a book from my parents and it was about the Tao Te Ching, what Wayne Dyer is talking about a lot. And I got about— who, which parent gives a kid who is 11 years old a book about Tao Te Ching? Come on, seriously. So I got— so I started reading it when I was 18. Years later. And when my dad died, I said, listen, I will achieve everything I want in my life, and I'll see you on the other side. And I left. And one of the things was meeting Dalai Lama. It was 2002. I dreamed about it, I meditated, I prayed for it. And 2 years later, I said, you know what, forget it. If it happens, amazing. If it doesn't happen, amazing. It doesn't matter. You won't believe me. In 2006, Father's Day, one of my daughters— I got 3 daughters and a son— one of my daughters, she's coming to me and she says, hey Dad, I got a little present for you. They did not know anything about me thinking about Dalai Lama, etc. They did not know. And I said, okay. So she gives me an envelope and there's 2 tickets. Guess for what? To meet the Dalai Lama. By the way, in Belgium. And you can check it on Google. He was in the Lotto Arena, it's called, in Antwerp, in Belgium. And I was like, wait a minute. And they did not know about this, right? That is the most beautiful proof that if you believe in something and you ask the universe or whoever you want to ask, I mean, we're having different religions and different ways of thinking and different cultures, but ask the universe for guidance and for help and believe in it and just keep going. It's like, I have a funny story about that. Do we have time? Because yes, because I want to listen to you too, you know.

And then yes, we're going, just one moment. I want to say, to share what Nino has written on the comments, that it's mindset, believing, uh, we can do anything we truly set our minds to do so. And also, did you write this or Nino?

No, Nico. Nino.

Nino. Okay, Nino. Yes, it's nice that. So it's mindset and believing, uh, that we can do anything, and then we truly set our minds to Do it. Let's set our minds then. Thank you, Nino, for this beautiful comment.

No, I didn't, I didn't put anything because I'm driving, so somebody else.

Ah, then who, who do? Sophia, you did it? Then it's somebody else.

iPhone from somebody. I don't know who iPhone is, but—

ah, it's iPhone. Who is in the iPhone?

Ali.

Sally.

Sally, where are you? We cannot see you. He said the universe is here. Sally, you're here first.

Is this Sally from London? I guess it is. I don't know that many Sallys, so I think it's Sally from—

Yes, yes, yes.

Welcome. Oh wow.

London. Welcome, Sally. Welcome.

Now, funny story about believing.

Please. Yes.

There was a young couple and they just got married and in the middle of the night, Um, the lady, she wakes up and she says, hey, hey, hey, I hear some noise downstairs, would you have a look? And he goes, what, you hear noise? Yeah, I think there's a burglar. So the guy goes very silently downstairs, nothing there. Okay, the night afterwards, again, the, the lady, hey, hey, hey, I hear a noise back downstairs. Would you have a look? And he says, uh, well, yeah. He goes down, says nobody. The night afterwards, hey, hey, I hear some noise downstairs, would you have a look? That goes on for 20 years, every freaking night. So one night she says again, honey, I hear noise, really, I do hear noise now. And he takes the baseball bat, put it on his shoulder, and he goes downstairs like Every night puts the light on. Guess what?

A burglar.

He says no.

And the burglar, he wants to run. He says, don't run away. He says, why? I said, I want you to meet my wife. She's been expecting you for 20 years. When you believe in something very, very— you know what I mean, right?

Yes.

As much as you believe in it, it's going to happen sooner or later.

Okay, 20 years.

We will wait for 20 years. I hope less. Oh yeah. Yes, that's nice.

Oh, this is really true. I mean, I always say to people, if I may say it, well, I also really good example. I was working as an operator in one of the company. And there were technicians coming for a 3D printer, to do the machine, and they were like traveling all over the world, having company car, good pay, and everything. And I was like, oh, that must be nice to do something like that, you know, like one day I will do that as well. And long story short, I'm doing that for the last 7 years now. So, wow, the same job, the same job I dreamed of, I'm doing it now. And now the next dream is to have my own company, and actually I'm working on that now as well. I started my own company and the things are going the way that, like Rene Deceuninck is saying, like just believe in universe, everything is happening with the reason. And sometimes, like, the mind doesn't have, uh, doesn't know the difference between reality and, uh, and what are you thinking. So if you put yourself into it, that you live in that moment already, like, like, I want that, I have my own company, I will, you know, every day you say that to yourself and it will happen one day or another, definitely.

Yeah, thanks you for sharing.

I mean, just one question for Nino. So since this has happened to you, how it was the emotional state the feeling? What was you— when you say I'm going to make my company, what is the feeling inside you, or is it only rationality?

No patience. I wanted to have it yesterday already. So actually, actually, actually, the feeling is now like I'm very motivated to do it because I really want it. That's something that you want, and even you want— when you truly want something, you feel much better. You're more have more energy and everything. But like this, like when I was— because energy is the only one that you can control, you know, in life. And if you can control that, you, you, you have, you have it really good. And the thing is, like, you don't— like, with this job that I was dreaming 7 years ago, it was only like a couple of years ago that I said to myself, like, wait, but I dreamed about the job that I wanted to have it, and now I have it. So it's like only confirmation, like If you really want something, and of course you have to work towards it, then you will get it as well.

That's nice. Thank you for sharing. That's nice.

I mean, and honestly, I just wanted to say, like, I saw Rene Deceuninck, I think 10 years ago, on the Tony Robbins— when he was working with Tony Robbins on the Success Resources in Belgium. And actually, he was doing a small part of body language And actually, I'm still implementing that in, uh, in my— actually, I would say almost daily life. Wow.

We have to know the secret. We have to know the secret that Rene has shared. It is the secret.

Yeah, it's been quite a journey. You know, when you talk about Robbins, it's about— I mean, it's not about me and it's not about Robbins. It's about knowing what you want in life. And when I say that, it's about— I want to— I mean, I wanted to collaborate with the guys. So when you want to collaborate with somebody, how do you get there? How does that work, right? And I become— I became a bodyguard in the first place, uh, 2 years. And after bodyguard, I mean, I was like, wait a minute, who is hiring him? So I went after that lady who runs Success Resources, Veronica Chu. I chased her everywhere for a year. And after a year I said, hey Veronica, are we in business or not? It was like I had nothing to lose, right? And she says, yeah. So she went, came back with her PA, took all my information, and before I knew it I was doing Unleash the Power Within preview sessions for Tony Robbins all over the planet. And when we met in Brussels, Nino and me, when I was in Brussels, it was actually a funny story as well. A friend of mine, a colleague speaker, was speaking in Moscow in Russia And at that time, things were normal. You know, Russia was an open country. But he said certain things on stage you shouldn't be saying in Russia. So before he knew it, he ended up in jail. At that time, I was flying from Dublin to Zaventem to Belgium. And I get a phone call when I landed, and it was Success Resources in Singapore. Hey, Rene, where are you? Are you in Brussels right now? I said, yeah, I just got back from Dublin. And said, would you replace Alan because he can't be, he can't make it in Brussels for, for Tony? I said, yeah, what happened? Well, we'll share that later on. I said, okay, no worries. So I, and then not even an hour later, Alan is calling me from jail. Hey Rene, buddy, thank you for, for filling in and bloody, bloody blah. I said, man, what happened? He says, I said something and within 5 minutes they pulled me from stage into a van directly to jail. I said, what? He says, I have to go to court on Monday and normally they're going to let me go. But he says, thank you so much for— I said, wow. So, you know, it's fascinating when you travel the planet and not only the things that are happening to you or for you, I rather say things are always happening for you, not to you. But it's funny what the experiences are in different countries. And then to come back to the subject, to body language and microexpressions. When you go to different countries, the postures and the gestures in certain cultures, it's so important to ask local people what are the dos and the don'ts in a country, right? And as I explained to you, Roxane, before we went online, when I was in Iran and Tehran, I've been there now 3 times, is that I asked the locals what are the dos and the don'ts. So for example, they said to me, don't talk about politics, don't talk about religion, don't touch women. I said, touch women? I'm not going to touch women. Don't worry about me. They said, no, no, no, seriously, don't even shake hands with them in public. I said, what? They said, yeah, but that is the culture. You have to respect the culture. And as when, whenever you go to a different country and you respect the culture, you'll, you'll live a life like a king or a queen. And that's what's actually, actually happened to me now 3 times already when I was 3 times in Tehran. They treat me as a king because I respect them. You know what I mean?

Exactly.

That is for every— I mean, Greek culture. Okay. A friend of mine, he had a Greek restaurant in Belgium, but on the side he was selling trucks as well, secondhand trucks. And a friend of mine, he's an Italian, and he was looking for a truck. I said, wait a minute. And the guy, his name is Fotis. And I said to the guy, I said, hey, I got a friend of mine, his name is Fotis. Maybe you can buy a truck from him. He said, okay. So I introduced the two gentlemen with each other, and I was sitting on the side watching them. It was like war going on. They were like with their hands, and I said, Fotis, Fotis, come here, come here.

What's going on?

He says, shh, this is our culture. We make a lot of noise. An Italian with a Greek. I mean, like, what? But that is, and that's what I mean about cultures in terms of microexpressions or body language. Always respect the culture. And if you don't know the culture, ask the question, right? Or do some research before leaving.

Exactly. I remember also before we go online and live like we are, we are talking about, because also I have similarities. I'm working hospitality industry. This is what my major my major subject. And when people and tourists are coming to Greece and people, the reception clerk, let's say, want to welcome a culture, also again they have to make the research. We don't make research only when we go, also when we welcome people we have to know the culture in order to be respectful with the people that we're having in front of us. I find it also crucial, and by this also you are going to— the other people will smile you, and you will handle better complaints, and you will handle and manage situations that in other situations might be more harsh. If you are polite and respectful, they— everybody can have this essence. They can feel that you respect them, no matter even if you don't speak, if your body language speaks or your facial communication speaks. So it is also the other way when you welcome people in your own country, even if you are in hospitality, or even if you are walking on the road and somebody asks a question, a tourist maybe with a map, where is this road, where is the other? We have to be welcome everywhere and always. Yeah, I totally agree with you.

So for example, in body language we sometimes mirror people. Can you mirror people with microexpressions?

Microexpressions, because it is our innate, it is in our biology, this is why we have survived. Let's share an example also. For example, the fear. This is the fear facial expression. Now I make it macro, but you can see it in a glance. It's less than half a second, very quick. This is— we survive because maybe we saw an animal, a tiger, to come on us, and we repeatedly doing this action, this facial action system, these muscles, particular a specific muscle movement. It makes us survive and make other people from far away see us. Because also when we do this fear, it is we open our eyes, the sclera, it's open wide, so we have more peripheral and straight forward sight. It's more open to find a way to, to, to run. Or, and also the, the mouth with fear, it's open to get the oxygen to go to the feet and start running away to survive. So this is survival, that's That's why the 7 basic emotions are survival mechanisms, and it's going to drive to the DNA and biological, as per Matsumoto, Paul Ekman, and a lot of science research behind this. So, so if you see through Dan Siegel, it's neuroscience, it's medical, from Harvard Medical, Dan Siegel has said once that, um, uh, through explaining mirror neurons, mirror neurons have to do, they are activated with muscle movements, with movement. So the people, they are seeing the movement on your face.

Hmm.

So if they see the movement, they can feel, they can go to empathize. They, there is some, um, um, mental, um, how can I say, a process in the brain, but this process, it attached to the feeling. So if you see me in anger, let's do the anger face.

Hmm.

Let's press the lips tight. Also the vocal change by the expression. So this, you make— you will feel that Roxane, something bother Roxane, and you might get this confusion in your brain. Because if you don't, if you are in a calm position and you see an anger face, maybe you want to run because you're going to get involved with this emotional fog. Because let's say that I have this emotion, I carry with me my emotions, my anger face, my that phase, whatever phase it is. So if you come in my position, if you come— let me— there is one lady that is coming. So if you come in my fog, you will get influenced from my emotion. So this is, uh, contagious. That's why you said before, if you see somebody laughing in the trains— this video is all around the globe— you were laughing. It's not only the sound, You see that, you know that the other is enjoying. There is the joy, the joyfulness, there is this happiness, and there is— you start, so you are going— if I do it, if I keep on doing it, I'm sure you will all laugh. You will burst into laughing.

It's contagious, isn't it?

Yes, it's contagious, like, like sadness.

Yeah.

If I keep on doing it, I'm sure I will do it and you will be carried away with the emotion. Emotions— we are people, humans are emotional creatures. We decide through emotions. The emotions and the facial expressions came to— it's communication. You have to know my intention. This is the principle. That's why this is We want to know the body language. We want to know the facial expression. What is your intention? Are you a friend or an enemy? This is the bottom line. And from this, then we're building things and we survive as species. So I hope I cover your question.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Does it— I mean, would it— would you agree that it also has to do with the level of consciousness you're living on?

Yes.

How conscious are you in life, right? But I, what I see that 80% of humanity is living in, in the survival mode. Like you mentioned that earlier, the survival mode, the lizard brain, that old, the oldest part of the brain is always looking for danger so we can react. And the lower level of consciousness, the more people you have, but also people react upon things. The higher you go in levels of consciousness, the less people we have, right? The more people take action in terms of reaction.

Yes, I agree.

I mean, I've got people asking me, Rene Deceuninck, did you see that on television, what happened in that country? And I said, first of all, I don't have a television, and secondly, I'm not interested because I won't— I would not allow external negativity get on my brain so I have to react. No, I take action instead of reaction.

I agree.

And the higher you go in levels of consciousness, you will see there's less and less and less people Right. Um, I had a conversation with Jack Canfield about this subject. I don't know if you know Jack Canfield. He wrote a book and a concept, um, Chicken Soup for the Soul. And we had a conversation about that. Yeah, he's— I said, why Chicken Soup for the Soul? He says, well, that's a long story. I said, okay. But his grandma would feed him chicken soup each time he was ill. And funny enough, he healed from the sickness at that very moment. Through Chicken Soup. And he says later on, so many years later, I was creating a concept and a book, and I did not know what title I would use. And he says people are actually sick in their brain. I mean, in a certain degree, some people are not sick at all, some are very sick. But he says, I'm looking for a title. And he says, the Chicken Soup, Chicken Soup. And he started like juggling with words and came up with Chicken Soup for the Soul. And if you Google it, you'll see that 147 publishers said no, we're not publishing this, this is rubbish, that's a rubbish title, we don't believe in it. And number 148— I don't know the exact numbers, but I think it was 148 said yes, and both became millionaires with that concept. But he says it all has to do with your level of consciousness and the little level of your belief Where are you in life? How do you think? What do you believe? And are you open to have conversations about that? For example, if you're in a relationship with your partner, are you open to have conversations about these subjects? Right. And when one is open and the other one is not open, okay. But you have to have somewhere a synergy in— when we talk about partners and about relationships, a synergy that you speak the same language, if that makes sense.

Yes.

If you don't, you, you show the other person like, hey, I see it like this, how do you see it? Are you open for a conversation in that, in that context? But it is a fact that levels of consciousness will have an influence on your body language, on your micro expressions, because body language and micro expressions are a result of how you feel. It's actually not a language, body language. It's, it's It's an expression, right? Based on how you feel. And how you feel will create a body language. That body language will create an energy and a vibration on a certain frequency. And you will attract that kind of person that you express with your body. And I don't know if you know, but you probably do.

Maybe not. Okay, tell me.

Oh, you're an expert. Come on. So when two people are communicating, you have the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. So when we say the conscious mind, that is what's happening in the moment, right? You touch something, you taste something, you hear something, you say something. This is conscious. We are conscious about it. The subconscious mind sees what we don't realize and hears what we don't realize. So when hearing and seeing, that means your tonality and your body language, which together makes nonverbal communication. Why would they say 93%, which is from Albert Mehrabian, that in the '50s said 93% is nonverbal? Why is it 93%? They did a study and science showed that when you are conscious, you transfer 40 bits of data per second. So speaking is— and listening— words is only 7% because it's only 40 bits of data. This is science. This is not me. This is science. 40 bits of data per second you transfer from conscious to conscious. Speaking to you guys is 7% only, words. I don't know if you paid attention to my tonality and my body language.

And now you're going to pay attention. I pay attention.

The thing is, though, Nonverbal communication goes subconsciously, and subconsciously we're transferring not 40 bits of data per second, but 40 million bits of data per second, which is a million times more. That's why they calculated and did more scientific research, and they found out that actually 93% of all our communication is nonverbal. That's why it's so important to realize that when I speak to you, I use my tonality, I use my body language, I use my words, That will go through your brain. What is conscious, conscious will be subconscious, will be processed in your brain, and you will come back towards me with an answer, a statement, a question based on what I've sent out. Yes, makes sense, right?

Yes, yes.

That's why it's so important to understand that your outside world is a reflection of yourself. Whoever you meet in life, whoever you talk to in life, is in fact a mirror of you.

Yes, very nice. Asymmetry facial expression. Okay, please add some content. I will, I will add the content here. Okay, the reflection, let's say that we're having a lot of windows, let's put it like that. Yes, a part of ourself, it's not the whole self, a part of our subconscious, let's say trigger point, let's put it like that. So some belief, some belief system that we are having, we see it in front of us. So if it is a limit, a limited belief, it will be this reflected, uh, in order to help us, the universe or God, to help us to resolve this in this life. In this sense, yes, I agree with you that we're going, we are facing different personalities at a particular stage of our life in order to face our own limitations and, and then to grow. Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree like that, because we have to cultivate our own personality, not the others. Yeah, yeah, it is for us.

And Talita just joined. Talita Ermendorp, she's joining from Amsterdam.

Oh, beautiful. Welcome, welcome.

Uh, Talita, if you have questions— Sally as well, if you have questions.

Yes, please. I think it's nice to open for questions. Yes, because it is okay, the content, it's enough and we can carry away. Maybe more questions, maybe Nino or maybe Nino is driving, he's driving.

So if you have questions about any subject or whatever, please ask. This is the moment we can, uh, and there's not such a thing as a stupid question, there's only stupid answers, right?

So yeah, oh my God, I can see the chat, so you can write on chat. Take your time, think about, reflect of maybe this a question about body language or facial expression, maybe in your work, maybe something that you are facing, maybe how you want to improve the negotiation levels through physicality. Whatever, think about it, reflect, and we will carry on. And, um, and Rene Deceuninck, we are checking the chat box, so if there is any, we are going to stop the conversation and reply to you. So it's open for us.

Yeah, what I would like to add here in the conversation is that we didn't mention it yet is that the purpose of this conversation, the purpose of this Zoom, first of all, is sharing about body language for sure. But the purpose is also that we had a conversation about creating something interesting for people who are interested in body language, that is, with several speakers that are specialized in body language, microexpressions, etc., etc. So we are already 3 people. It's Roxane, myself, and then Catherine Malloy from Australia. Katharine couldn't make it because we have a time difference. But, um, and what we're going to do, we're creating actually a platform that is based on body language, microexpressions, nonverbal communication for people who are interested in learning about it, and with different speakers who have different insights and different topics. For example, Roxane is specialized— I mean, if you want to share that, what is your specialty, Roxane? Maybe you can tell it better than me. I mean It's okay.

I love microexpressions. I'm a trainer. I'm certified in Facial Action Coding System. That means recognizing the facial movements and the probability of emotion. The probability— always we're talking about emotional probability, but I am certified from Paul Ekman. I go to the degree there. And, but for me, actually, I'm doing it for public speaking. I have I'm using this tool because it is a tool, as body language is a tool. I'm using it how to enhance the speaker's journey. So I am back office, back behind the scenes, and I want to— I love to be behind the scenes, to be honest. I love to empower other people, to encourage people, and microexpressions is a tool to make them feel to have the real essence of their talk in order when they go out to be dynamic and to be sincere and to say things and to have the engagement. So I use microexpressions and of course facial action coding system is something more deep. But okay, let's say our microexpressions for public speaking coaching. So this is actually what I do.

Yeah, yeah.

And I love—

Katherine wrote a book about the Million Dollar Handshake. And I was like, the million dollar handshake, come on. And I actually, I actually invited Catherine, was it a year or 2 years ago or 3 years ago to Oxford because I was teaching at Oxford University and I asked, or Oxford Business College. I asked Catherine because she was in Oxford, her son is in Oxford and when you're there, why don't we do something together? And she says, okay. So I was listening very attentively to her speech about the million dollar handshake and I was like blown away by it. And that's why it's so interesting that I would love to have Catherine also on the platform and she's going to join us anyway somewhere along the line and for people to learn about your handshake, which is so important. And myself, I'm going to speak about body language in business, but when there's specific questions about relationship, about dating, about children, about politicians, about, you know, because everybody is using body language, if you ask me. I mean, whenever you're alive, you have a body language, right?

Yes, you got it with you. We are kind of this.

So I think it's a very important topic, and also it's going to be a very important platform which we're going to call the House of Body Language.

House of Body Language. Yes.

And why the House of Body Language? Because we are housing different topics in that house of body language. So for Talita and Sally and Sophia, Nino, you will be free to join and we're going to share far more information afterwards. But right now, this is the first time we have this, you know, go with the flow conversation. And yeah, I'm super happy you guys were on here as well. So if you have— I don't know, is there a question?

Like, any question?

Yes, you know, yes, Sally.

Yeah, there is one.

Um, sorry, I get just, um, I just, uh, can't turn on my video, but it's okay. I have, um, a question about how to really implement, like, the strategies and the theory of the body language, because it's quite a lot, and when you're I guess everyone's used to a certain flow or a certain habit of communication. So how can you effectively and consciously use these techniques and not get overwhelmed by, you know, constantly having to, to stop and think what someone's doing or what you're doing yourself? How do you implement it naturally?

Beautiful question, Rene. You want to, to start? How? Yeah, I mean, yes please.

A thousand-kilometer road starts with the first step. And what I mean about that is that you start first of all analyzing your own body language. Why do you do what you do? And what I mean about that, if you have If you see certain pictures in certain— I mean, I got my own book obviously, but I got like 560 pictures in that. I was having a, um, I was invited to— this is a real— that's something that really happened. I was invited to Ostende in Belgium, and Marvin Gaye, the musician, lived for many years in Ostende. And but because of, uh, they wanted to remember him, blah blah blah, and there was a politician standing on stage and he was holding his hand his hand like this on his arm. Now, when you do that in the front or in the back, that means you have a huge lack of confidence. I was looking at that politician. I said, what? I said, come on, man, don't do this. I mean, this is my profession, right? And he was on stage and I was sitting in the room and I couldn't speak to the guy. But when you go to those books, it doesn't matter which book you buy about body language, but look at the picture. And if you feel like, Oh yeah, I'm doing that too. I had, uh, when I was in Iran, we had some selfies we took with people, and one lady, she stood like that as well. And I said, why would you hold your arm like this? She said, I don't know. I said, is there something that you're not secure about? Is there something, um, from the past that you didn't solve yet on your subconscious mind? And then you have to see a hypnotherapist, as they say. The thing is What I would do is to analyze yourself first, right? And when you speak to somebody, is pay attention to your body language, pay attention to your feet. And why would I say your feet? Your feet are the body parts the furthest away from the brain, so the less controllable. So for example, if I speak to somebody, my two feet will point towards the person. If one foot is pointing away, that means I want to leave, and I'll leave in the direction my foot is pointing. But if you're aware of it and you watch where your feet are when you have a conversation with somebody— so you have to pay attention to your first, to yourself, to your own body language, also to the language you use. What is the language you use? Is it high level, low level? Okay, and then you can start reading and learning, and then you can analyze somebody else's body language. And then you watch out— where are the eyes going? Where are, um, what are the hands doing? What are the feet doing? If, for example, your foot— your two feet are pointing towards that person, and that person speaking to you, one foot is pointing away, you now know that person wants to leave. So you wrap up the conversation because they're not 100% attentive. Okay, so it's about— first thing is analyzing yourself through books, through YouTube videos, through visiting websites about body language and nonverbal communication. The second part is you first of all read your body language, you learn about yourself. The second, you learn somebody else. And then the third part is when you start using your own body language and their body language to start a conversation towards a certain result. That you're aiming for. That means, for example, you're in a business deal for a couple of million dollars and you want to have that deal in, right? So you're gonna watch your own body language, read their body language, use both body languages to come to a result that you want to have, which is closing the contract. And at the same time, you watch out what you say, the words you use, because it's not because it's only 7% words that it is not important. It is still certainly, certainly super important, right? Um, one thing I would like to add to the whole thing is that when you start learning how to play piano or you start learning how to drive the car, the more you do it, the better you become. So the more you start paying attention to your own body language, the more you start reading about it, the more you start really implementing it, and the more you start being— I wouldn't say be obsessed by it, but you know, you're on a daily basis. I'm on a daily basis busy with it. I'm reading. The more you start finding out things about yourself, about somebody else, and you can enhance the quality of your conversations. I don't know if that makes sense, Talita.

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, awesome answer. I think That really makes a lot of sense to start step by step. And yeah, definitely analyzing yourself first. That's where it starts. Yeah, super clear. Thank you.

Welcome.

More than welcome.

I will add to that one thing because it's the beginning. Of course, you have to recognize, acknowledge exactly what Rene Deceuninck said and appreciate each moment of what level you are. For me, it's also the intention that in the beginning, it's always the intention. In which intention I go to negotiate? Which is my intention when I go with my friend out? What is my intention when I'm speaking with my children? What is my intention? If I have clarity in my intention, it is as Rene Deceuninck said before, win to win in a negotiation. It is a win to win. It is the human connection. Then my brain will lead also the body language and the wording. So the intention always has to be something good, has to be a good intention. And then of course you do the practice that I have also many books. I can, I can propose some books. Of course, Rene's book. I can propose also here I have Joe Navarro book. I have many books for body language. So Vanessa Van Edwards here. I have many books. Here is Scott Rose. I have many books. So you have— you need the book. Okay, the internet, the YouTube. Rene got also book. Okay, Rene, sorry, Rene, send me your book. Okay, okay, okay. My collaborator Rene's book also. Many books. Most it's facial expressions, of course, but I have also body language books. And you start slowly, but still first start with the intention. I have this difficult negotiation, this difficult bad conversation. You have the emotional retreat before. What is my emotional state? It's fear, it's anger, it's distress. What is the emotional I have? I'm sweating. What is happening in my body? You have to release any emotional. You have to have an intention. What is the outcome? And slowly, slowly, you add the knowledge of body language in order to to be stronger in any conversation and to have the self-confidence. Yeah, yeah, nice. We have one question for you, maybe the million dollar— for you, Rene Deceuninck, the Million Dollar Handshake, is it in Amazon?

Yes, it is, it is.

Okay, okay.

The name of the lady is Katherine Malloy. I'll write it down here.

Can you write it in the chat? Katherine, it is Sally.

It's Sally asking, right?

Mhm.

Katherine Malloy, and the book is called The Million Dollar Handshake. It's available on Amazon. Okay, my book is also available on Amazon.

You just, uh, I'm not talking any other book.

Many 560 photos, plenty.

I do the pictures, I do, I do the body language of signers, of same This is the same. I put the same.

But this, this, uh, I would say go on the market, look for books, look for videos, look for podcasts.

There are many books.

And, and, and, and learn from people who are very— like Joe Navarro, you just mentioned, he's a legend in body language. Um, uh, Alan Pease from Australia.

I got also. Yes. Yeah.

Amazing dude. I mean, he's a friend of mine. And these people are very specialized in what they do. And this— the thing is that the more— it's like learning how to drive the car, learning how to play the piano, learning whatever you want to learn. Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And the more you practice, you better become. How do you make babies? You practice. And all of a sudden, bang, there they are, right?

But the more you practice— I thought Bert was bringing them. I thought birds were bringing them.

Yeah, yeah, Nino, the bird is bringing them.

I have a question. If it's like, like I was thinking a little bit about all this body language and, and facial expressions. So you mentioned like if somebody has a foot like pointed and he wants to leave, so you wrap up the conversation. But what if you need that person for a business and you want to make a deal with him and he is like not interested in you? Is that like more connected from the very beginning when you start to talk with him? Or can you— are you speaking about influencing this then? Or, or you know what I mean? Like, because I, I wrote, uh, I wrote, uh, I read a really good book like How to Influence, uh, How to Win Friends and Influence People. Like, it's a very nasty title, but it, it's, it's not sound— I mean, it sounds bad, but it's really good book. And it— everything starts for the first, like, 3 seconds of conversation. So is that everything connected, or you can still like influence through the body language to gain the interest of the other person that you would need?

You know, you can influence, uh, people with body language all the time. The only thing you have to remember is that I had a question from somebody that says, hey Rene, can I use body language for everything? And I was like, of course, but do remember one thing very good. Remember that karma will get back to you. So if you use body language for the wrong reason, it will get back to you. And that is karma. So you can use it, use it, make sure you use it for the right reasons. That's the first thing. The second is when you speak to somebody and you really need that person into your business, or it's an investor, or it's a business partner, or whatever, and the foot is pointing away, that is a sign that the person is not 100%, um, 100% listening or 100% engaged. That means also the more you speak, the more you continue to speak, the more they get annoyed. Yeah, in a certain percentage from 0 to 100, right? When you see that, you can ask them a question. Hey, is it okay if I continue for another minute and then we can wrap it up? Or Okay, okay, okay. So you give them the feeling like, hmm, how does he know? They don't say it, but then the subconscious mind, it goes like, hmm, great guy or great lady, right? So can we continue for another minute, and then maybe we can take the agenda and put another date in? Would that be okay for you? And when you say, would that be okay for you, the head goes yes, because in a seminar, the more Why do you think speaker says, um, do you agree, raise your hand and say yes? During seminars they do that constantly. It says real professional speakers, right? And why do they do that? Because at the end of the seminar they might have a product to sell, a seminar. If you get 100 yeses during an hour's time, which is exaggerated, to get a yes at the end is a piece of cake. If I say to you, hey, listen, you know, great conversation, can I have another minute of your time and then let's wrap it up, right? Because time is money, we all know that, right? And then maybe you can take the agenda, put another date in it. Were you okay with that? And I was like, would you okay with that? Yes, it will go automatically. Yeah, right. And then you go, just continue. Like, so what we just talked about was like this and this and this, and then 1, 2, 3, XYZ. So when would be a good time for you so we can plan another meeting? Would that be on Tuesday, Wednesday? When would it be a good time for you? Let's maybe, let's take the agenda. And everybody has an agenda on the phone, right? And that's how you wrap it up. And you say, hey, great talking to you. Looking forward to our next meeting. You have a great day. Ciao. And they leave, and they are happy because they can actually wrap up. And subconsciously, you are meeting their needs. That's another thing— meeting somebody's needs. If I know that you are into certainty and significance in life, I will give you certainty and significance in life. You're gonna like, wow, what an amazing dude! And the only thing I did, I was meeting your needs.

So thanks.

If I know that you are into surprises in love and life, but you want to be loved and connected with somebody, if I can meet your needs, man, a complete world will open up. That's why relationships today, more than ever, when there's a man-wife or whatever relationship, right? But in a relationship, when couples could meet each other's needs and find out what their needs are, I guarantee you 80% of all divorces would not be necessary.

Yes, I agree.

It's also communication. Yeah, a lot.

Add the body language to it and microexpressions, you're going to have a life like crazy.

You know, like the blue sky that we can see from your car, from the rooftop.

Yeah, that's not very common in Belgium, so enjoy it.

Yes, yeah, of course. But this is, this is, you know, I should say this is content that is not for everybody, but once you start negotiating on, on, on a certain level and you start understanding how body language works— and, and the question from Talita, to get back to that as well, is that starts, start from the beginning. And do it bit by bit. Um, if you go to a 2-day seminar about body language, don't expect to become an expert the next week, but implement bits and pieces, bits and pieces, bits and pieces. And then it's like learning how to do anything in life, like I mentioned, driving the car, learning how to play the piano, bit by bit, bit by bit, and build it up and build it up. I guarantee you, if you do that, within a year's time, you'll be the best negotiator on the planet if you do it consistently and seriously. And then if you do it for the right reasons. Sorry, Roxana, you're going to say something?

Yes, for the right reason. That's why I like that you mention it. And one more that you have mentioned before, to make— this is how we open this today, to make open-ended questions, to have curiosity and interest. So if you saw, Nino, if you saw this interest and make these questions, as Rene said in the beginning of the session, then the food that is going out, the food will turn and facing you. So we, we put the light to the other person. We hear more, more. Rene, this is exactly what you have said. And then the people to feel that we're interested in them, not to sell them. They don't want people to feel that we want to sell them. So you put this aside. First, learn the person, and then you will see the needs. As Rene Deceuninck said, that if the needs— you can meet their needs with your product, with your services, then it's okay. Then you share your product. But first, we're going to— we have to be curious about learning the person, the personality, and then we're starting. This is the connection, and then it is the ability, the capability that I can offer you this. So this is— I can put it in one sentence. Yes, like this.

And you can even divide the needs in male-female, for example. We have certainty, and the opposite is uncertainty. And uncertainty is a variety of life, the spice of life, the surprises of life is uncertainty, right? Then we have love and connection. Then we have significance, growth, and contribution. Now, if I just mentioned, you can divide it in male-female. Most female— I say most, not all of them— but most female are looking for certainty in life and love and connection, where most male are looking for spice of life and significance. Not all of them, most of them. And I always speak about 80/20. 80% of ladies are looking for certainty and love and connection. 20% of ladies are looking also for the variety of life, the spice of life, the surprises of life, and significance. And the other way around. Men are into significance. Did you see what I— listen, when a man does something in the garden, he mowed the lawn, right? And then he goes inside and he goes to his partner and says, hey, honey, come and see what I did. Did you see that? I did that lawn.

Did you see?

Did you just look at it? Is it okay?

Is it—

that's a man. Significance. Not all men, by the way, but most of the men. Right? Where ladies are more into certainty, love, and connection, is a man more in significance and the variety of life, the spice of life. And then the two last ones, growth and contribution. You grow or you die. That means like read books, go to seminars, listen to a podcast, go on YouTube videos that are interesting from speakers that you heard about speaking, like a Jack Canfield and Brian Tracy and, and, and a Jay Shetty. And I mean, there's a whole list of good speakers out there. And then, and then the most important part: implement it. Do it. Because listening to something and learning something is good, but knowledge is amazing, but applied knowledge is priceless. That's what I would add to it. And about meeting the needs, if you know your partner is into certainty and love and connection, give them certainty and love and connection. Your partner will come back, come back to you like, wow, you're the best person I ever met on the planet. How do you do this? And you don't— I don't know. You know, you meet their needs, that's all, right? But if you have a very good connection and relationship, you can actually share that with your partner. Hey, what I did, I'm meeting your needs. I asked you questions, you shared certain answers with me. Based on your answers, I found out that you are looking into certainty and love and connection. If I can meet that meet of yours. And he's like, oh wow, can you, can you share a little bit more about that? Of course. And it's how it works. And there's 6 basic relationships. Do you know that? Is everybody still good with the time? I mean, is it still interesting?

Yes.

Okay, sorry. There's 6 types of relationships. And why would I say that is watch out the people you surround yourself with, because you're gonna copy-paste their behavior leave you anyway sooner or later, right? It's, uh, I think it was Jim Rohn that said the 5 people you surround yourself with is who you become. And what I mean about that is in the relationships, you got a relationship filled with love and passion. And then I would ask, I would ask the question in a room in a seminar, I said, how many of you have a relationship filled with love and passion? Raise your hand and say yes. And there's only a few people who are honestly saying, hey, well, yeah, me and my partner, we have a relationship filled with love and passion. I said, how many of you in the room have a relationship filled with love but less passion?

Raise your hand.

And how many of you have a relationship full of passion but less love? And then I was in Denmark. I remember it like yesterday. It was in Odense in Denmark. I asked that same question. How many of you in this room are preparing your escape in your relationship? Raise your hand and say yes. And there was a lady, she jumped up. Yeah, it's me, it's me. I said, you are excited. Yes, I'm going to leave my relationship. I'm sick and tired of that relationship. The guy this, the guy that. I said, whoa, wait a minute. But that's also a type of relationship, and a lot of people are not aware of it, but they are preparing their escape in the relationship subconsciously. Number 5, right, is the one that says I'm looking for a relationship. And number 6 is the one that says a relationship "Thank you, been there, done that. Not for me. I'm done with relationships." These are the 6 types of relationship. Now I have a question. Would you agree if you have a relationship filled with love and passion and you're hanging around somebody that's planning their escape on a daily basis, that you might be planning your escape after 3, 4 months? Would that be correct?

Yeah.

However, The other way around as well. The person who is planning their escape might be influenced by you having a relationship filled with love and passion and might turn around and have that relationship filled with love and passion. So it's very, very important to watch out who you surround yourself with in life because that is the basis of your relationship, of your life. And believe it or not, Tomorrow is not guaranteed. I have a lot of examples in that area of people that I know personally that are no longer there. So tomorrow is not guaranteed. So I would say live your life to the fullest every freaking day and watch out who you surround yourself with. Does that make sense? Yes, Rene Deceuninck, thank you.

Want to add something, Roxane, or, um, Yes, concerning relationships, just one sentence, and then the people, if they want to hear Sophia or Nino or everybody, or Sally, uh, Talipa, to share a comment or to hear them. Relationships, from intimate relationships even to a career basis, all range of human connection and relationships. For me, it is, um, If you feel that you are sincere and you can be yourself, okay, there is a specific role. Always we respect the role. For example, if my role there, it's a professor, if the other role it is to be a wife or to be a friend, we have to have consciousness about the role that we are having. So, uh, it is, um, the role that is playing a role and the conditions. Always we have to be aware about the conditions and the role, and then we have to think what is the relationship. For example, let's say that there is a crisis in the business that you are working, you cannot there be demanding because there you put the ego aside and you have to focus on overcoming the crisis. Like, let's say, this is— I use this example, the fireman, that when the fireman— there is fire, the fireman is going up to the fire to save the people, to do all this. And then the fireman, it's another condition, is going to hug the lady, the mother, and to cry maybe with her because he saved her. And so we have always, always for me this condition. What is the condition like? What is the condition right now? I will communicate strategically depending on the condition. What is my role? My role, it is as a speaker, or my role is the audience. My role, it is as a coach, or my role, it is coachee, and we have to respect the role and the other people. This is if we want to have strong relationships. This is what I have to add here.

Okay, so any questions? Yeah, anybody has a question? Like Nino, Sofia, Talita, Sally?

Talita, maybe Sally, Sofia? Okay, Sofia, do the blinky eyes. Okay, so we can—

you have to have fun in life, right? No, if there's no more questions, um, I mean, Roxani, where can people find you?

Uh, people can find me here on YouTube for the School of Body Language, social media, Instagram, or, um, LinkedIn and/or Facebook. But I mostly am in LinkedIn and Instagram, and here. I love YouTube a lot, to be honest. I will post my email if they want to reach me. And I will do the same also, your website, and I will share all the information.

Yeah, that would be good.

And where we can find you, Rene?

It's just my name.com, rene-deceuninck.com. And then you'll see. Very easy. You'll land on my website. And but besides that, I'm also on, I don't know I think 27 platforms on social media. The most common are like Facebook, Instagram. I'm big on LinkedIn because on LinkedIn are— is the basis for my clients is on LinkedIn. Got like 21,000+ followers there. Then X, Twitter, you know, X, Twitter, also Pinterest, Telegram, name it, I'm probably on it. But the most common are LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. And if there's any questions you have, you ask the question, I'll answer your question. Besides that, Roxane, is there like a training or a course that you can offer, or is there like something you can offer here right now that you say, hey, or just connect with me and I'll have a question, or—

Yes, for me, the people, they just connect. I will put my email. I do public speaking coaching one-to-one. My client, they is from United States and America. This is my clients that I'm doing the coaching, and I'm specialized in TEDx, uh, for TEDx speakers. This is my specialty. So if you have a TEDx, upcoming TEDx coach, um, I help and support speakers to reach many, many millions of views. So you can reach me.

Awesome. Myself, I have the book here. If you want to order the book, it's just, it's on the website as well. Um, and momentarily I have like a promotion going on in terms of a one-on-one, 8-hour sessions of each 60 minutes. And as a one-on-one or in a group, all depends. And then further down the line, uh, I'll be in Jamaica in August, I'll be in Ibiza in September. And these are retreats. That means that we have a day of content and then half a day of the retreat. For example, in Jamaica, we go fishing. We're gonna have fresh fish right straight from the, from the sea on the barbecue. Um, we're gonna have Jamaican traditional cuisine, uh, but also music, meditation, beach walking, you know, city visiting. And that's Jamaica. And Ibiza is the same. Ibiza is a very beautiful location. We're going to have the retreat. This is not my organization. That's an organization from outside where they asked me to come and be the speaker. And then further on, I would say, hey, check the website out. There's lots of opportunities to follow. There's an online training.

There's the book.

There's enough stuff to learn from.

Nice. Absolutely.

But I would say, hey, Nino, Sophia, Talita, Sally, for being here. Sophia, do you have a question? I see you're unmuted yourself. Is that a question or—

okay.

I'm interested about this in Jamaica. I'm gonna get the Roxani and be with you, meditation and, you know, diving with the fish and barbecue. Perfect.

I mean, about the fish, this is— I'm not kidding you. I was in a— I was in a very dear friend of mine. We were both bodyguard for Tony Robbins at the same time, many, many years ago. And he's from Portugal, Ricardo Mendoza. He's an amazing dude. He's one of my best friends as well. And Ricardo, he says, Rene, whenever you come to Matosinhos, which is in Portugal, which is north from Porto or south from Porto, it's in the Porto region, if you come, I'll treat you as a king. I say, okay. So one day I ended up in Matosinhos in Portugal, and he took me to a restaurant. So you arrive at the car, you have the sidewalk, you get into the restaurant, but the other side of the restaurant was the beach, the sand. And he says, what kind of fish? Because it was a fish restaurant. He says, what do you like? I said, I like seafood and fish and stuff. He's okay, what kind of fish would you like to have? I said, well, let me have a look. Made my choice. He says, okay, it will take 20 minutes to half an hour, so be patient, but it comes fresh out of the sea. I said, excuse me? So all— this is a true story. I see people, 2, 3 guys going into the water and they're gone. And after like 10 minutes, they're back with a whole thing full of fish. And one of those fishes was mine. And they come, they go to the kitchen, they clean the fish, they prepare it. And I mean, this is amazing. And this is what I say about Jamaica. If you say, hey, we're coming to Jamaica, and it's for singles and couples, so it doesn't matter if you're in a relationship or not, when you come to Jamaica, you'll have that experience too. It's the same system. People go into the water, they came, they come back with the fish, and all kinds of fish, and they put it on the barbecue.

And yeah, And you make this retreat only once in a year, or give us some dates about it?

Once a year. It's, um, it's in August. Um, if you allow me, I'm gonna have a quick look.

You can send, uh, some information to Roxani and she's gonna inform me about this.

Uh, um, I have it already here.

So if you come to— if you come to Croatia to visit me, I will bring you to one of these restaurants as well.

Okay. I mean, we have like, uh, we had a couple of conversations, you know, I mean, and I'll be doing some body language in Croatia. And yeah, I'm— yeah, I would love to have— I mean, Fish, me and Fish, oh my God. I love seafood. Uh, that would be great, man. That would be great. So the link I just shared in the, in the chat is the chat box. Otherwise, yeah, for Jamaica. And then for, um, the retreat in Ibiza. Ibiza is—

here we go.

Copy paste. And this is from an organization who is hiring me, but they are very dear friends of mine. I mean, so Ibiza Retreat, U-Turn Retreat. Yeah.

I'm going to put it also on the comments underneath the YouTube. You will send it to me. I will find it. I can find it from your website.

Yeah.

If you go to the website, reneedeceuninck.com/shop, you have all the trainings and seminars.

I'm going to put it also, yeah, the people that— the future people that are going to see us later. So, um, thank you so much, Rene Deceuninck. Thank you so much, um, Nino. Sophia, thank you so much. Sally, thank you so much. Um, dear, uh, Talita. How it goes?

Talita.

Talita. Talita. Talita. Talita. Oh, Talita, very nice. So thank you, Talita, Sally, Sophia, and Nino.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you.

And if there's anything, feel free to connect with Roxane. Feel free to connect with me and we will help you forward on your journey into in terms of nonverbal communication. And what I would add to this is that we're gonna pretty soon have another meeting. So there'll be more people. I'll make sure that I can get Katherine there as well. Katherine Malloy. And maybe some other body language experts. So it's going to be growing and growing and growing. So you're going to learn a lot during those meetings, right?

Yes.

All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Cheers, guys. Thanks for being part. Appreciate that.

Thank you.

Bye, everyone.

Bye-bye.

Bye.