How Rich Schefren Engineered a Billion-Dollar Marketing Breakthrough

Welcome to another episode of How I discovered my gift with yours truly, David D. Simons. I am honored and delighted and my excited is excited for this interview here with the godfather of marketing, Rich Sheffrin. Rich Sheffrin is a renowned entrepreneur and business strategist who specializes in strategic business growth and digital marketing. He founded Strategic Profits, a company that offers coaching and training programs for. For entrepreneurs. Sheffern is known for his practical approach to business, emphasizing the use of technology and systems to scale businesses effectively. He has a testimonial that no one else in the space can say. He has a billion dollar testimonial. He grew a business by a million dollars from a million dollars in one. Sorry. Bought a billion dollars in one year by taking Agora Financial from 220020 million to 1.25 billion in the marketing space. He's the inventor of the automated webinar, something that we as a, as a company benefit from today.

Wow.

This is just like solicitors. You're in for a treat. He invented the lead magnet, did the first ever live stream and the first live stream from an event, and he was the very first business coach online. So we're talking history here. He's coached a lot of my mentors, including Russell Brunson, people like Russell Brunson, Mike Filsane, Ryan Dice, Todd Brown, Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, Anakin Gall, and everyone else in this space. So another thing that Rich has been a part of in, in. In popularizing is the VSL that was invented by John Benson, but they, they popularized it and used it as a tool to help Agora grow to those leaps and bounds. He's also authored the famous Internet business Manifesto. And, and that is, he's a sought after speaker in the industry and his insights have inspired entrepreneurs to align their businesses with their strengths and pursue continuous growth. And lastly, we can't forget Rich. Today, on top of everything else he does, he runs Still Are Winners, which is a platform that does 104 episodes a year, giving people strategies and tactics that are currently crushing it that most people have no clue about before they come become saturated. I told Rich privately that like, I love it so much, but it's so good, I don't even want to share it with some of my people in the space. That's how good it is. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Rich, for coming on.

Excited to be here, David. And we're doing it on a Saturday so that we have enough time to like, have a serious conversation. So I'm excited.

Me too. Me too. I've been looking forward to this for a while here. So, Rich, you know, the show is all about gift discovery and how people discover the gifts. So I want to kind of start, I want to take it all the way back, like, so I want to go into childhood. Rich, like, when did you, what, when you went through your childhood, did you know what your gifts were? And can you, can you describe the moment when you started to identify what your gifts were?

You know, it's hard, it's hard to say. What I, what I would say is, is that, no, I wasn't really sure what my gifts were when I was younger. I, I, my dad was an entrepreneur and all of his friends were entrepreneurs, and I really idolized my dad when I was younger. So I would follow him around on the weekends, like, you'd, to bring me along, and I would just, like, listen to his meetings and different things like that. But, yeah, I wasn't really sure, like, really, I didn't, I don't even think I thought about those things, to be honest with you. But I, I didn't have a great childhood. That's a understatement. And, and that set me up for a lot of experiences that led me to be who I am, that I'm very fortunate that that happened. Right. So, you know, I ran away from home for a, for a while and, you know, David and I were talking offline about this, like, the other day that, you know, my high school experience had overlapped with two, two very popular movies. I ran away from home in 10th, ninth grade. Ninth grade, I believe. And I ended up being like a gopher for these guys that were in the Mafia, in the Colombo crime family, and they were fixing horse races. They were paying jockeys not to come in first, second, or third. So the people that did come in first, second, and third did not know that they were going to be coming in for a second or third. And then they would bet all the combinations in what's called the trifecta. Like when you're deciding, when you're betting on who's going to come in first, who's going to come in second, who's going to come in third. They knew that these three horses were the only three that were going to come in first, second, third, because they had paid off the other five drivers not to come in first, second, or third. And, and then they would bet all the combinations. And so I was a gopher for those guys, which meant, like, we'd go to the racetrack and I would be running back and Forth to get them food, to get them whatever they wanted. And then they would tell me what to bet, and surprise, surprise, like, we won. And so I. That was like, a period of time for me, about a year. And I won a lot of money. That ended when my dad walked into my bedroom one night when I had $15,000 in 20s on my desk because we were at Yonkers Raceway. And the. The, you know, the gangster guys, they cash first, and they cashed out all the hundreds and fifties that the track had at Yonkers Raceway. And so by the time I got paid, there were only 20s left. And I just had never had that many bills in my, like, Life at, like, 14. So I was counting it and organizing it on my desk when my dad walked in and he confiscated the money. And then we had a long talk, and I wasn't allowed to do that anymore. The guys that I hung out with were friends with Michael Francis. So, like, when I interviewed Michael Francis, like, we got. Got a chance to talk about all those things, which was kind of cool because my girlfriend had heard all these stories, but I don't know, maybe she didn't believe they were true. But then when I was talking to Michael Francis about the different guys, and, like, she's like, oh, my God, like, oh, you really did do this. Anyway, those guys were in the book Wise Guys. And the book Wise Guys is what the movie Goodfellas is based on. But the guys that I was hanging out with, the guys that were fixing horse races, didn't make it into the movie. So. So most people don't know those people, but, you know, anyway, that's who I was hanging out with. And so my 9th and 10th grade year were, like, kind of defined by Goodfellas. And then after I was no longer allowed to do that, I had to get a job, an after school job. And so I got an after school job. And where I got an after school job was Investor Center. And Investor center is the. Is where the Wolf of Wall street, where he got his start. So it's in the movie, and in the movie it's represented, like, as a place, like in a strip mall when he tries to sell and everybody crowds around him. It wasn't in a strip mall. It was in an office building. But I was there. And I was there when he was hired. I wasn't a broker because this was now me in 10th or 11th grade and taking a bus after school to Investor center on Northern Boulevard. But he was able to close in one call, and no one else was and it was really fascinating to watch him. And then I realized how sleazy that business was and never wanted to be in that business. But. But. So that was, you know, my 10th or 11th grade year and was the Wolf of Wall Street. And then, you know, that. Then that was the end of my high school, right? Like, I mean, as far as, like, I graduated, I hardly went to school in 9th and 10th grade and almost failed out of high school and then got straight A's in 11th and 12th grade. So had to apply to a lot of colleges to decide, like, to determine where I would get in. Because if they looked at my total cum, I wasn't going to a good school. If they looked at the last two years in the SATs, I was going to a good school. So applied everywhere. And yeah, that was my high school. Wow. Wow.

So then in the midst of going through everything, you know, with. With the guys that were fixing the races and around the Wolf of Wall street, did you find, like, hey, hey, you started, like, looking back, did you see. If you look back from now, did you see what was the gift or gifts there or. Or did it come later in life? Because ultimately, the question I'm getting to is, when you look at Rich, what do you think is the most dominant gift that you have?

Well, okay, so, you know, it's hard when you ask me the question that, like, that it's hard for me to give a, like, short, concise answer, right? There are a lot of things that I would say make me unique, right? And those things have translated into my success, right? So the, you know, for example, right, I idolized my dad as a child, right. He was a sociopath. He screwed me over in business, like, really badly at the time when I was the weakest. And I obviously, that created a little bit of rage in me, and so that. But it also created a hole in me of looking for someone else that could play that role like a father figure in my life. And that wasn't like, a conscious decision, like, oh, like, I don't have a dad. Let me go find one. Like, who could, you know, let me make a list. Who could be, who could play that role, right? Like, it didn't work like that, but there was a part of me that had that hunger, I guess, that just, like, was operating below the surface, right? And so that I wouldn't say that that was a gift, right? This hole in my heart, like, looking for that, even unknowingly, but it became a gift because Jay Abraham, right. You know, a very extremely well Known marketer Mark Ford or Michael Masterson, another legend in our space. And Clayton Makepeace, one of the best copywriters that ever lived. Those were the three men that took me under their wing. And that happened because, like, I. I felt like I didn't have a dad, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, that there was a thing operating under the surface for me, like, trying to find, like, an older man to guide me through life, because I felt like the dad that I had would not be that guy. Right? And so, like, I don't know if that's a gift, right, to have a hole in your heart, but, like, it certainly turned out to be one. The. I would say that I. I understand business at a level that I think very few people do, and I didn't. And. And. And I guess, like, it always kind of. There was a gnawing, kind of, like, feeling when I. When I would be helping a client or on a Q and A call or whatever, right? And I see something and yet no one else sees it, and I'm like, that's a little strange. Like, why don't they see that? Right? Like, and then I thought, you know, this was, like, a conversation going on in my head for years, right? Yeah. Like, and am I that smart? Like, I just see stuff that no one else sees. Like, you know, is that really what's going on here? And I really didn't have an answer to it, except that I knew that, like, put me and someone else in front of something, I'm going to see things that they don't. And those things that I see are going to be useful if you want to make more money in that business. And I didn't really kind of things click for me until much later. I. So one of the. I got quite a few gifts from Agora when I helped them grow over a billion dollars in a year. And one of the gifts I got was something I'll show you in a second, and it's related to what we're talking about here. And so I got really into the UFC and MMA and about, like, 2012, 13, 14, something, sometime around there. And I became a fan of the UFC and mixed martial arts right at the beginning of when Conor McGregor started competing. And so I was one of those people that, like, got ushered into the Sport by Conor McGregor, and I went to. And so I love it, and I watch it all the time, and I watch it with my friends and stuff like that. And I was a huge Conor McGregor fan. I'm not really as much of a Conor McGregor fan anymore. But I was a huge Conor McGregor fan, and I was there at Madison Square garden at UFC 205 when Conor won the double championship, and he was the first UFC fighter to hold two championships concurrently. And then that was UFC 205. One of the gifts that I got from, you know, many years later from Agora, was Connor's left hand glove from UFC 205. So. Hold on, I'll grab it. Yeah, the. Wow. So I have the certificate of authenticity and everything in this. So this is the glove, and. And this is his left hand, and he won the double championship with his left hand. So this is the glove that won him the double champion. He's the. This is the first time, like, you know, a UFC fighter held two championships, and this is the glove that he was wearing. And so that's how big of a fan I am, though. I'm just sharing this because, like, that's how big of a fan I am. Like, a gord knew, like, if they wanted to really show me how much they appreciated, like, what I did for them, they would get me this, right? So I'm gonna put this back, but then I'm gonna end the story. So. So there's a guy that is, like. There's a guy that's an announcer. You could say, like, thought leader in mma, if there were thought leaders. There really aren't. But, like, someone who's been there, done that, and, you know, talks about it, and I don't really like him that much. I find him annoying at times. But the guy's name is Chael Sonnen, right? And I had this experience where Connor made a statement, right? And I listened to it, heard it done, right? Like, okay. And then I was listening to Chael Sonan or watching on YouTube or whatever, and Chael, like, broke down what Connor was really saying, right? That I was like, went right over my head, right? Didn't even. Until Chael pointed it out. Like, I didn't see it. And it was the first time that now there was something I was passionate about that someone else could see. Something that once they saw. Once they pointed out what they saw, I saw it too, but I didn't see it when they were talking about it, right? Like, when Connor was first saying it, I didn't catch it. Even though I heard every word he said, I didn't catch the subtext. And that was the first time that I was like, oh, that's interesting. This is kind of like me with business. Like, I thought I got everything that Connor said But this guy knows fighting so much better than me that he heard something that I didn't hear, right? Like, even. Not the words, right, but the subtext. And so that was like a. Like a confirmation that, like, okay, it's not that I'm, like, some super genius or anything like that. It's that I grew up around business my entire life. Like, because of my dad, because of his friends, because of the Mafiosa guys. Like, they were all business, all the time, the stockbroker guys, right? Like, and that allowed me to. To develop what I like to call today, like, distinctions that are, like, these concepts that alter how you see things, right? So, for example, the way I like to talk about it is one of two ways. The two best examples that I can think of off the top of my head are, like, I know nothing about trees. If I walk through a forest, I see just trees, right? But if I spent one day with a forester and they started pointing out, like, this is a good tree to make a shelter with. This is, you know, all these different things. From that point forward, every walk through a forest would be different than prior, because now I would see things that I didn't see before. And because I saw those things that I didn't see before, I could now do things that I couldn't do before, right? And so that or astronomy, right? Like, I look up at the sky, all I do is see a bunch of stars. But if I spent a night with an astronomer and they really showed me how to. Like, this is how you always find the Big Dipper. This is how you always find that. Like, when I looked up in the stars, like, every night after that, like, what I would see would be different than what I used to see. And I have developed a lot of distinctions, like, in business, because I grew up in business, so it's like another language. And I see, like. And so words have more depth for me, and I see things that people don't see just because of the amount of experience I've had. And so that certainly, like, made a difference. But then, you know, in college, I majored in accounting and did really well in accounting. And. And so that was just more business, right? And then I, like, took a year off and worked for Anderson Consulting and Arthur Anderson. All business, right? So, like, my whole life has just always been about business. And. And I think that's part of it. But I would say that if. If you were, like. If I was trying to answer the question that you asked me before this long tirade about my gifts, I Would say that my gifts are not anything specific, but there are numerous things coming together that make the unique person that I met. Right. So there's this search for a father figure that happened to land some of the legends in our space to take me under their wing. Right. There's the fact that I grew up around business my whole life and have been an entrepreneur, had successful businesses offline, successful businesses online. So, like, that has helped me. I have add, and that's been helpful because, like, part of ADD that at least I have, like, has me strive to do things differently from other people. Like, I don't like doing things the same way as other people, even if the. Even if the way that they're doing it is the right way. Like, it's. It's like there's a flaw in the way that this whole thing works, that I have to do it my way. Right. And so. But that's helpful too. Like, if you're going to be a thought leader or you're going to, like, you know, to have to want to do it your own way. And then my way of marketing is unique to me. Like, and that's primarily because of experiences I've had, like reading certain books and, like, future feeling understood myself and what that did for me. So I would say that my gifts are that I'm intelligent, that I am obsessive about the things that I care about, that I have this and that I care a lot. And then I would say there's this other thing that's I wouldn't say is a gift, but is almost like a. A fuel. Yeah, right. That. One of the things that I discovered. So I. I'm a big fan of a gentleman by the name of Werner Earhart. And Werner Earhart was really kind of like the progenitor of pretty much everything that you see in self help these days. You know, did what Tony Robbins did before there was a Tony Robbins, right. He created est. He. And EST was the progenitor to Landmark, right. So all the transformation space came from him, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, he talks about. So I'm a huge fan of his work. I've studied it relentlessly.

It's.

Etc. Etc. And one thing that he talks about is like, how does someone become great and that we see someone who's great and we think that that's how it is. Right. Like, I'm not that they're great. I'm not. Right. But that's not how it works. Like, you become great when you commit to a cause that's bigger than yourself because that's what gets you out of your own concerns. Like, I don't feel well. I have a headache. You know, Like, I'm sure Martin Luther King woke up certain mornings with a headache, but he didn't matter because he was committed to something much bigger than his own, like, feeling, okay, he was committed to the civil rights of his whole race, right? So, like, in that moment, his headache didn't matter, right? Like. Because, like, his commitment to the cause was more important than his headache or his whatever, right? And that might not be a great example, but, like, that's the idea. And so what allows someone to be great is committing to a cause that's bigger than themselves, that pulls them to greatness because there's no reason to be great for yourself, right? If you're just doing it to make the most amount of money, like, well, then it's okay if I don't make money on this thing as much because, like, whatever, right? I don't need that. And so you can get yourself off the hook, but if you're committed to a cause that's bigger than yourself, then you can't get yourself off the hook. That's the cause, right? So that. I've always believed that. Like, I learned that from Warner Earhart, but I agree with it. And so I've often looked at that, like, in a lot of my clients, myself, et cetera, and have looked. And what I found was, like, when I worked with a bunch of entrepreneurs, like, in a specific capacity on this, that oftentimes you can find something in an entrepreneur's childhood that you can attach to what they currently do. So I was like, you know, I talked. I mentioned earlier, like, not the best childhood. Don't want to get into all the details of that, but. But I was locked in a room for a while, and. And so for many weeks, and I had no freedom at that point in time, right? Like, no voice, no freedom, no nothing. And I happen to think that being an entrepreneur is the only way that you're free in this world. That. That it's the only way that you have security. It's the only way that you have freedom. It's the only way that you become the own master of your own fate. And it's the only way that you really, truly can have a voice that no one can silence. And so for me, right, to extract the maximum amount of, like, force, power, passion, whatever you want to call it, energy behind what I do is committing, like, in my head to what I really provide people is what I was robbed in childhood that, like, I know what it's like to not have a voice through, to have no options, to have no freedom. And what I provide my clients is the solution to that so that they do have a voice, so that they do have freedom, so they do have options. And so, because I am very much viscerally, like, aware of how much it hurts to have those things taken from you. And I see myself as the person who helps provide that to people. Right. Like, that's a cause that I can get behind. That's something that I can commit to, that is more important than how I feel this morning. Right. And so because of that fuels, like the power right now, that is whatever it is. And then the next thing is, is that I've also been blessed with a lot of flaws. Like, I really kind of believe that, but also been blessed with an awareness of those flaws. And so that has allowed me to do a couple of things. It's allowed me to. A lot of the flaws I have are similar to most people, so in our space. And so that has allowed me to talk to the market in a way where when people hear what I have to say, oftentimes they feel understood that, like, I know what's going on in their life because I can speak to it in a way that they're kind of surprised. And that gets people to lean in and want to know more. And so that has helped me. And then in addition to that, the awareness of my flaws has had me go out and look for solutions. And really, like, all my best products, all my best campaigns have all been around. Stuff that I found for myself that made a difference in my own life that then I brought into the market. And that also is kind of different than the way a lot of other people market and, you know, and ways I've marketed, you know, at other times. But that type of way of marketing for me allows me to be at my best because it turns me into an evangelist, not a salesperson, not, you know, and I hate selling. Like, it's not really. That's why I became a marketer. But I like to have sold. I just don't like the act of selling and pressuring and looking like I'm trying to get money from you and stuff like that. Right. So. But when I am in pursuit of something that matters to me, right Then in that pursuit, right, like, of something that matters to me, I'm pretty relentless, if that makes sense. So the then so that all, like, I know I'm giving you a Long winded thing. But, like, hopefully this all kind of like resonates and comes together. I had a midlife crisis in 2012. And in 2012 I had made more money than I had ever thought I would. My business didn't need me, so I didn't need to go into the office. My wife at the time didn't want me in the house, so I had like, I had no office. Like, my office didn't need me. My wife didn't want me. I was like, oh, this is like not that nice. And so I then had a midlife crisis. Kind of like took my company down to like a skeleton crew, worked with just my private clients for a whole bunch of years. But during that time, I really was evaluating a lot of things in my life. Like, how did. Why am I here feeling this way now? And I. There were a couple things that I kind of like started to realize, right. One is a model that I've taught a lot of people and I think it's become more popular because of that. Although it wasn't something that I created. It might have been like something I learned from more like the time, like studying Werner's stuff. But there's a model called B Do have. Yeah, right. And. And how you sequence those three things kind of determines a lot about you. So I was following a model of like the overachiever model. Do have B. I will do certain things. They will bring me these results. Have. And I will be a certain way happy. Right? It doesn't really work that way. It works that way for like a week or two then, right? There are people who, if I had this secret or if I had this, or if I had access to capital or if I had that, then I would do this and then I would be that. And that's a dreamer or a bizopper or like, you know, that doesn't lead to success either. The only thing that leads to long term happiness. And I was just, you have to be the thing. Just be the thing and then do and have, right? Like that's be, do have is the only way that it goes, right? So that's just one because I was following. No, I have do be. I mean, I was following a do have be, right? I was willing to do the work to get what it was I want. Because I thought when I got what I wanted, I'd be happy. And. And what I found was I got what I wanted. I was happy for a week or two every time I got something and then I just defaulted back to the way it Was right? Like, so that wasn't it. And so there I was, like, having achieved most of the goals that I wanted for my life, and now I wasn't happy. And it's like, oh, now what am I going to do? And so I thought about it a lot and I was like, okay, well, maybe then what's the point of having a goal like this? Makes no sense. So then I, for a period of time, I had no goals. That really wasn't very effective. So then I went back to the drawing board again. And then I was like, okay, no goals doesn't work. Having goals seems to kind of lead me to some disappointments. What's the solution here for me? Right? And, and then I thought about, like, okay, well, when have I felt most alive? Because, like, I wasn't feeling alive then, right? Like, that was part of the problem. Like, you know, when did I feel most alive? And the more I thought about it and wrote my journal about it, I felt most alive when I was pursuing something that mattered to me, right? And that got me really thinking that, okay, so when I'm pursuing something that matters to me, I feel most alive. Okay, I get that. All right, so then if I have a goal and it doesn't put me into action and feel alive, then it's the wrong goal. It's just not the right goal. Because the purpose of a goal is not the outcome for me. Because the purpose of a goal, like I've already, I've already achieved the goal so many times, and I know what happens. You're happy for a week or two and then you reset back to your baseline. So the point of a goal is not the outcome. The point of the goal for me is does it get me out of bed in the morning, excited to go after it? And if it doesn't, then it's not the right goal because it's not the goal that matters. It's how I'm experiencing my life on a day to day basis. And what I need to experience my life on a day to day basis at a height of like, where I want to be. I need to have goals that excite me. And if those goals excite me, they will then kind of organize my activities to pursue it. Like, I will be in pursuit. And when I'm in pursuit, like a predator, I feel alive. And when I not in pursuit, I do not feel alive. I feel kind of stag. And so, you know, it's like, so when you ask me, like, what my gifts are, right? Like, I'm trying to tell You, I guess that there are numerous things in my life that I believe have caused me the success that I've had. And a lot of those are what I'm sharing with you are the realizations of what, like, operated below the surface. So, like, in a way, right, like, understanding that the only purpose for me, only purpose of a goal is to align my actions, period. Like, it's not about the achievement of the goal and that if it doesn't, then it's not a good goal for me because that, you know, it really only matters what that goal does for me today, not when I achieve it, right? That is part of my gift because, like. But it's not a gift, right? It's just a realization that, like, organize my life. That now becomes a gift because, like, I recognized that this is the way to bring out the best in myself, right? And so I have. I have kind of, like, built a series or set of gifts. Unintentionally, they weren't. Like, I wasn't in pursuit of these things, but, like, in my pursuit to be happy, to be better, to make a bigger difference for my clients. Whatever the case was, for each thing, like, the net result of it was that it. It left me with something that made me better at either my job, my life, my fulfillment, or something like that.

That's amazing. Wow, Rich. This is such. And it's apropos. Your name is Rich. That was so Rich, right? Like, like, in. In. In. I've never heard anybody in all the episodes describe it like that. And it resonates, and I know it will resonate with. With the listeners. I'd like to go into development a little bit. You've kind of talked about it in so many components. And I mean, as I'm building a relationship with you and learning more about you, I'm learning that you really take the time to develop yourself. You even said it, even after the period of 2012 with the Midlife crisis, like, you went to go develop yourself. What does that mean? And work on yourself. Like, so a couple questions in that. What does that mean to develop yourself? And how have you developed yourself to who you are today?

All right, the first thing I would say is that, like, I'm a perpetual seeker, right? I know that's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. It just is, right? Like, and I would also say that almost. Almost everything is more appealing to me than working, like, which is kind of shocking, right? So I try to establish habits and escapes that are beneficial to me. Like.

Yeah.

So when I'm avoiding work, right? Like, and I'm doing X, there's still a benefit, right? So like, for, for many, many, many years, right, I used to do the elliptical a ridiculous amount now. So for those that like. And I would expect no one to know this, right, But I was a very heavy kid and I used to struggle with my weight quite a bit. And when I first got online and I stopped moving because I was sitting in front of my computer like 24, 7, I put on a shit ton of weight. I was up to like £250 right now I weigh like, I don't know, like about 170 something. And. And so like I used to, when I didn't feel like working to feel good about myself, I would hop on the elliptical right now. On the elliptical I had, I had developed like a process. I created a video on it like about like 12, 13, 15 years ago on how I read. And I read on the. I was reading on the elliptical. I was speed reading on the elliptical. And so I could spend an hour, two hours a day on the elliptical and go through a book a day, like, boom, boom, boom. And now I. It. What. What I want to stress, and I don't know why I want to stress it, but I think it is important is that I wasn't. That was easy for me to do, like when there was time for work to get done, right? Like, it's very easy for me to go to the elliptical, speed, read a book, feel good about myself that I just read a book, but I didn't get the real work done right? So working on myself has always been like a way of getting out of some work, right? Like just the way it goes, right? Like that. I read an insane number of books. Not because I really like. I mean, I do enjoy reading and I wanted to learn, but more because I didn't want to work at that moment. And this was another way of doing something that I wouldn't feel like a loser at the end of the day, like, you know, because I'm. I'm concerned about my weight. And so working out makes me feel like I'm on top of that. And reading a book makes me feel like I'm on top of my education and like blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like so, you know, and it's the same to like, you know, we were talking the other day and it was like, right before we were talking, I just done some jump roping and. And it's the same thing. Like, you know, I end up working on myself in ways that are not necessarily like, they're more like rewards than they are because of what they allow me to do. Right now. I've kept a journal for 29 years. Like, this year will be the 30th. And I have filled up, like, 32 books because I journal almost every day. And it's in those journals that, like, I got to discover, like, a lot about myself, about, like, my flaws. And I would say where I have done the most thinking about my life and put in the most, like, connections and what I. And the reason why I've journaled for 29 years. And it might be, like, an ADD thing or something, but it's like, I find that if I'm not checking in with myself on a daily basis, I can very easily go on autopilot. And then, like, two weeks go by, and I'm like, what did I really get done? And it's like, absolutely nothing. Right? Like, I'm just right. So I have to kind of check in with myself. And then in addition to that, I feel like when I'm writing my journal is where I do my best thinking. I don't know how much thinking I do outside my journal, like, other than, like, when I'm talking to people and trying to help them. But when it comes, like, I don't spend a lot of time just standing around or sitting at my desk thinking about how I can be better, how I can live better, how I can do better, how I can. But those are the things that I think about in my journal. And so, like, if I didn't have my journal, I'd have a lot less thinking time in my life. And I think that's one of the problems with most people who struggle in entrepreneurship is that they don't think enough or if they're thinking, they don't think accurately. But having the journal has. Keeps me thinking enough and keeps me thinking accurately. Right. And also keeps me on top of areas that I want to improve about myself. Right. You know, and I think also part of. I think part of maturity and part of success is or is or part of growing up is learning more and more about yourself and being able to accurately kind of predict, like, you know, what you will do, what you won't do, what you'll struggle to get done, what you won't struggle to get done. Right? And I think that. I think that, at least for me, right. That has been insanely useful to be willing to recognize that I'm unique. Maybe we're all unique, but, you know, at least I know I am. And and therefore I doesn't matter what anyone else does. What I need to do is what works for me, right? So like one of the things that I've discovered about myself, right, it's not a thing I like about myself, but it's how it is, right, Is that it is often difficult for me to go from a low energy state to a high energy state as it relates to work, right? That most of the time if I'm not highly mentally engaged in something, I seek to not be highly like engaged in it, right? Like whatever I'm doing in the current moment is what I want to be doing. If I wanted to be doing that other thing, I'd already be doing it. I'm not doing it, therefore I don't want to do it, right? And, and that's not necessarily a good thing, right? Like, so what I discovered about myself was that it's much easier to get myself into a more engaged like state to then be willing to engage my mind in the hard work of deep thinking, right? Because it doesn't matter what area of my life I need deep thinking, I'm going to avoid it until my mind clicks on. And what will click on my mind is jumping like a thousand jumps on my jump rope that will get me from passive and lazy to now my heart is beating a little bit faster. And so it's very frequent that I'm sitting here in my office. My office is sitting a separate building behind my house, right? So we, the house is that way. Then there's a pool and then I walk past the pool and then I go into this other building and I'm on the second floor of this other building and this is my office and I will. And in this, you know, in this office, like I have my assistant not here today because she doesn't work on the weekends, but she sits right over there. And then behind me, right, like not where the sign is, but to the right, right or to my left, there's another TV over there and there are pads on the floor and my, my jump ropes are hanging right there. And I will like right before this interview, right, like I jumped 3,000. Because it wasn't just like in between stuff, it was like my morning waking up and, and so. But like, I know, like if that's just a thing I know about myself, right? And that's what I'm talking about as far as maturity, like learning about how you tick and then being able to leverage that, right? Like is what I'm talking about. There's, I forget the gentleman's name. Now, if I thought about it for him, it'll probably come to me as I am explaining this, but this gentleman is the Chair of Adult Development at Harvard, and he's written a lot about what it means to grow up, maturity being at your best, changing your level that you're playing at, etc. Right? And one of the things he talks about, one of the things that, like, growing up maturity is all about, is shifting things from subject to object, which makes no sense until I explain it. So the. The urge to pee, right? At one point in your life, you were subject to it. Like, it was not an object. You were subject to it. In other words, you had to pee. And you pee, like, in your diapers, right? Until the urge to pee became a thing, like an object, like, oh, I'm feeling the urge to pee, right? I'm now gonna go to the bathroom, right? So everything in life starts out, we're subject to it. How much you mature in life determines how much goes from subject to object, right? So, you know, it's like. It's like projection, right? Projection is where you see your problems in other people, and that's what you don't like about them because you won't want to admit that it's your problem. And so most people are subject to that. They don't operate like it's projection. So they're just. They project, right? But if you develop enough and you recognize that when information informs you, it's just information. When information affects you emotionally, it's projection. Like there's something going on there, right? Like, for it to affect you. And at some point, if you. If that becomes an object to you, then it has no power over you. That's just. Right. You know, that's just the way it is, right? Like. Or I'll give you another one. Just this. This is. This is a Werner one, right? But if you've, like, been pacing what I've been saying, then this will make sense. And if you haven't, then this will make no sense. A superstition has all its power only when it's not a superstition. A superstition loses all its power when it is a superstition. So a black cat walks in front of you is bad luck. If that's what you believe, like, it's bad luck, right? But when you have evolved enough to say, a black cat walking in front of me, right, is a superstition, well, then it's just a superstition, right? Now, where Werner will take it, which we don't like, we don't have time to unpack. But, like, this would be the. Like, if I could say one statement that maybe would get people interested in, like, studying some Warner Earhart. Once you get that, right? The next thing to get is that the you that you think you are is just a superstition, right? That, like, who you think you are is not. But, like, that's. That's Werner, right? That's not my gig. So, like. But the you that you think you are is also just a superstition. Like, black cats are unlucky. Walking under a ladder is unlucky. Break a mirror is unlucky. Whatever, right? So, yeah, I think that I have always been drawn to, like, a lot of, like, deeper philosophical stuff, and that has me therefore, think at a deeper level about a lot of stuff. And so when I'm thinking about what are my gifts or when I'm thinking about how do I work on myself, so many of these things are intertwined, like, you know, in a way that supports me, right? So. And what I mean by that is, is that, like, my girlfriend's going through a tough time right now, and her mode of escape, right, Is, like, sitting in front of the TV and watching, like, a season of Survivor, right? And after she's done with that, she just feels worse, right? It's just another, like, you know, like, it doesn't. It's not good. And the only difference between me and her is that the escapes that I have are more intentional, right? Like, and they're more beneficial for me. So it's not that I don't have a desire to escape. I very much have. I might have a desire to escape more than she does, right? But when I'm escaping, I'm learning. When I'm escaping, I'm working out. When I'm escaping, like, I'm doing, it's like, you know, it's like creative procrastination, right? Like, I am getting other important things done when I'm not doing what it is that I really should be doing. But that's okay because I will do the thing that I really should be doing before it needs to get done because I will operate with urgency and deadlines get me going. But, you know, but the. But I'm doing all these other things that are beneficial to me as a way of avoiding the one thing that I don't want to do. Right?

Wow, this is remarkable, Rich. This is like a masterclass. Honestly, I know listeners are wondering this because I think everything you shared is deep, deep. I want to Take us into, like, how everything weaves together, right? The. The. The person you are, how you work on yourself, how you. Aware of flaws and all those things and. And how, like, maybe if you could start with. Because I'm sure they're wondering, Agora, right? Like, how does. How do you take who rich is and then bring that ability to recognize distinction and take a company from 220 million to 1.25 billion and any other examples and things you want to share and how this has helped you in business and from a marketing standpoint and all of those components.

Okay, ask me the question just another way, just because I want to make sure that, like, I do address specifically what you want. I might share some other stuff with it, but I want to make sure I hit that.

So, so essentially, how has. How has who you are and who you've become, the person you've developed yourself into today, played a role in helping you in the work you do in marketing? And even an example, such as, like, some of these unique gifts, right, that you've received from going through what you went through in your childhood, going through what you experienced with, you know, all of the different areas, and working with these different mentorship mentors. How's that all cumulated together to help you use that distinction in scenarios like Agora and other things and. And being, you know, just profound in the marketing space?

Yeah. Okay. What I guess I would say is. So I'll get. I'm gonna. I'll try and address that specific. But what I would say before that also, though, is that I have an unhealthy need to be liked. Right? Or at least I used to. And so whenever I come across anything that is powerful, interesting, like, what have you, the first thing that occurs to me is, like, whether I want it or not, like, and then who would benefit also from it, right? So I very frequently share very cool stuff with a lot of people, right? There's, like, I don't. I guess, like, some people in life operate with scarcity. I'm all the way on the other end of that, and to a fault. Like, it's not necessarily a good thing, right? Like, but where that serves me is that I have helped so many people for so long that a lot of people feel obligated to help me, and I don't do it for that reason, right? Like, I do it for the reason that I want to be liked. Like, if I had to, like, boil it all down, like, you know, it's an unconscious thing, but that allows me to benefit greatly because it means that I have a lot. Like, I have a lot of people who are just eager to help me, and all I have to do is ask because they feel like I help them a lot and I've never asked, right? And so that helps me help a lot of people, right? Like, whether it's Agora, whether. Like, because I can pick up the phone and call the best media buyer, the best copywriters, the best, you name it. Like, I have those people in my Rolodex. So that certainly is one of the things. The other thing is, I guess just I think that I understand myself better than most people understand themselves. Not because I'm, like, any better, but just because I've kept the journal for 30 years and I've, like, analyzed my life, like, every which way, right? And so I would say that I'm very in touch with myself and how I respond to things from the standpoint that, like, when something gets my attention, when I feel the desire to buy something, when I get invited to a webinar, and I hate webinars, and I almost never go to them, yet for some reason, I find myself putting this webinar on my calendar and making sure that I do attend. Like, what is really going on? Like, why is this, me, this person not doing what they normally do and is actually, like, what is it about this webinar that that has me wanting to go to it? Like, is it the title? Is it that? Like, because, like, I want to understand what's going on for me so that I can then understand how to do that to other people, right? And so I think that even when I'm not the target market, like, I'm not the target market for Agora, but I can put myself in their shoes because I'm very, very, very familiar with my own shoes. And I have one of my strengths. I'd say, like, one of my gifts, to go back to that question for a second, is that I am very egotistical about my problems. That for some reason, I don't know why. Most people in the world, when they have a problem, they think they're the only one that has that problem. I never think that. I don't know why. I don't think that. I don't know because everyone else I've ever met seems to think there's some unique individual that has their unique, specific problems that no one else has ever had before. Whatever. I don't think that way at all. Anytime I have a problem, I assume a lot of people have that problem, right? And so Anytime I have a problem, it opens up an opportunity to potentially have a product to this, to that, the other. Because, like, if I'm experiencing it, there's got to be a lot of other people that experience it. And it actually informs the way that I market. Because something I've taught years and years ago was what is most personal is most general. What you think you are struggling with alone is actually what everyone else thinks they're struggling with alone. And if you actually are able to describe it in a way that, that resonates with them, they will think that you know them better than anyone who's ever known them. So, you know, that I would say, is a gift in the sense that I'm very familiar with myself. I'm very familiar with what makes me move. And because I'm very familiar with that, I can, like, apply it elsewhere. So when I'm looking at, when I'm at Agora and I'm looking at a promotion, like, I can put myself in the shoes of the prospect and be like, would that get my attention or would it not? Would I click on it or not? Would I like. And I can kind of follow along. Now, the other benefit I have, right, is that, okay, I've been online for 25 years, right? So I have seen everything come, which makes it really easy to learn enough to understand every element of marketing. Now, I'm not a media buyer, but I've been around before media buying, right? Like, and so I've seen the explosion of that. And I've seen, you know, I. I had a. I had a video go viral on Google video. Like, you know, so before YouTube, right? So I've been around longer than YouTube. I've been around longer than Twitter. I've been around longer than Facebook. I've been around longer than AdWords. I've been around longer than all those things, which means I saw those things all roll out, and I learned enough about how they all operate so that, like, I understand everything about online marketing, not everything to the deepest level, right? A copywriter knows how to write copy better than me. A media buyer knows how to buy media better than me. But I know enough about all those things, right, to be able to craft a strategy that few people can because they don't know all those things. They're much more a subject matter expert than a generalist expert, right? But I'm a generalist expert. And when you've been online for as long as I have, like, you've learned a lot of things. And then I've also had the benefit of coaching all the people I've coached, right. So I got inside their businesses and I, I got an education of what they each learned, Right. I got to learn just by coaching them. And then in addition to that, now I, you know, what you mentioned at the beginning, like, I have this subscription service called Steal Our Winners. And Steal our winners is 104 episodes a year, so two episodes a week of strategies and tactics that are currently crushing it that most people don't know about. Now I love doing Steal Our Winners. I love doing Steal Our Winners because of the results that we get clients. I love doing Steal Our Winners because nothing like it exists. And my desire to be unique, it gets fulfilled by that. I love Steal Our Winners because when I first started marketing online, like I bought lots of courses, studied lots of things and learned lots of things. And nowadays, like as the host of Steal Our winners, doing those 104 episodes a year, I am the student being taught what is currently working in someone's business at that moment right then. And I get to learn personally from them. And they're super excited because they've got something that's working. And I'm super excited because I'm learning it. So it benefits me in my, like, psychologically. Right. But it also benefits me professionally because I'm tapped into everything that's working and then just automatically because of that. Right, right. And then I go into a business and I have all those episodes in my head because I'm the interviewer on all those episodes, plus all my experience, plus my knowledge of how I would respond. Right. Like, and it just becomes like all these things stack on top of one another to, for me to be able to do what it is I do. But what I'm mostly looking for is the low hanging fruit. Like what is it that I know that they don't know that if we were to plug that in, would make the biggest difference in the shortest amount of time. And more often than not, at least the last four years or so, all those strategies have come from Steal Our Winners. Right. And before that, you know, it was just me trying different things like for myself and seeing what worked and, and being plugged into a lot of other people who are doing the same for sure. Wow.

Geez, Rich, this, this is your, your spirit, your, you know, not to put a gift, attribute a gift to you that you wouldn't say about yourself, but I think just, you know, conversation. I think your gift is also an awareness, like the ability to be aware of just period. Like, I think, you know, the example that comes to mind is I think it was Mike Tyson that, that said. I can't remember exactly how he said it, but, but it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna bother me. Hopefully it comes back to me. But it was, they asked him about like, why are great people great? And he said it's the same thing with Tom Brady. It's the same thing of, of Michael Jordan. This is great, of the greats. And it's, it's gonna bother me, but it's not coming to me. But there was a specific word he used and it had to tie in with awareness. And when I'm hearing you, I'm like, wow, this is your, your, your awareness is just at a ultra, ultra high level.

So I would, I would agree with that. There's actually, there's a gentleman who I really like. I've read all of his books, I've watched most of his lectures. He's passed away. His name is Anthony DeMello and this Indian Jesuit priest and he has this one six hour presentation called Waking Up. It's all about waking, being awake. And, and it's amazing. It's just amazing. So, yeah, I've, I've. All you have in life is your attention. Your attention dictates everything, right? How I feel right now is totally dependent on what I've placed my attention on up till this moment, like the last couple minutes. Right. And every relationship I have is defined by the amount of attention that that relationship like requires from me that I get, like, you know, etc. Right. Every relationship requires attention. Growing your business requires attention. Having a good relationship with your kids requires attention. So your whole life is kind of determined by your attention. And therefore, you know, I wrote, so I wrote. When I wrote the Internet Business Manifesto, I had no idea what to expect. I had just finished a coaching program and I had this big project with Agora Publishing three months into the future, right?

Yeah.

And so I didn't know what I was going to be doing for those three months. And so I didn't like the idea of doing nothing for three months. And I didn't like the idea of not making any money for three months. So I figured I would write a report and take my year and a half long coaching program and condense it into 11 weeks because in 12 weeks I'm starting the project with Agora and hopefully I can get a dozen clients. And so I wrote this report, the Internet Business Manifesto and put it on my blog, like where people got opt in for it and lo and Behold. Like it went viral, it's been downloaded. Like, we stopped counting, like after the first five years, but it was downloaded over 2 million times in the first five years. And it totally changed my life. Like, if you ask me the question, like, what one single thing has changed your life more than any single other thing? It was writing that report. Like I went from being unknown to known, from hoping to get a dozen clients to having thousands upon thousands of clients. And you know, for many people, they won't. If you were online, then what I'm about to say will not sound stupid. If you're online before 2006, if you weren't online before 2006, just ignore what I'm about to say because you'll think I'm making it up. But, like, I'm not. I, like Alex Hermosi is a big deal today. Pretty much everyone knows who Alex Hormozi was. I was the Alex Hormozi in 2006, but there was no social media back then. So I was a big deal in our space. And that's it, just our space, nowhere else. Right. But that happened from the manifesto. And so that totally changed my life. Income wise, reputation wise, notoriety wise, you name it. And a week after I wrote the manifesto, I wrote his follow up report called the Missing chapter, because some people missed something that I thought I took for granted. So it was a missing chapter because this was missing in the first thing. I thought everybody knew this, but apparently not. So here it is. Then I wrote the final chapter, which was all about Agora and what made them successful then that was like the end of the manifesto series. Now every time I wrote one of these free reports, like I made millions of dollars behind it because like there was a course that I was going to sell later on that if you read the report, like the course would make total sense that you and you'd want it. And if you didn't read the report, you probably wouldn't because you wouldn't understand. Why would you even want that? But after I wrote that series of the manifestos, right? The next series I wrote were doctrines. That's what I called them. And they, I wrote two of them. And it was called the attention age doctrine 1 and 2. And it was all about attention. And the attention age doctrine 1 was all about that attention will become the scarcest commodity online. It will be your scarcest commodity. It will be your prospect scarcest commodity. It will be your employees scarcest commodity. How will you deal with that? And the attention age doctrine 1 was all about the entrepreneur, like, how do you deal with too many things wanting your attention? And then the attention age doctrine 2 was all about where I felt people's attention was going to go and what were the implications of that. And it was to social media and that, like, I remember a, like, graph, one of the graphics. I remember most of the graphics in the reports, but. But I remember one specific graphic in that report that was talking about. Wait a second. Oh, now I just lost it. The. Wait, I will remember in a second. What was the thing? Attention, okay. They. Everybody becomes publishers. Your brand is in there. I lost it. The. Well, attention is going to become the scarcest commodity online and including your prospects. And therefore, I don't know where I was going with it, but I'll just kind of latch on to one thing. In order to capture attention and hold it, you have to provide value. Right. And. And so I am very clear about attention because I've been. I started writing about it back in 2007 that this is what was going to be occurring and it's only occurred more and more. Right. Like, there's so many things nowadays, right. Like, you know, I. There was a time in my life that if I sent you a text and you didn't text me back, I took that as an insult. I don't take that as an insult anymore. Yeah, I don't take it as an insult anymore because my assumption is, is that like, my first assumption is, is that they probably didn't see it or if they saw it, then they got another text and they forgot about it. But it's not that they saw it and then they just decided not to answer because people have too many things like vying for their attention.

For sure.

Right. And what makes things work in marketing is when you're able to capture just a little bit more attention than others. Right. And the whole purpose of a headline, right. Is to get people's attention and then pull that attention into the. Into the copy. Right. So. So everything that I'm looking at, I'm also like, when it comes to marketing, stuff like that is getting informed by attention as well. And in addition to that, just being somewhat guarded about what I place my.

Attention on makes sense.

Like, because, you know, you. It's limited. And if you're not clear that it's limited, then you might be wasting it.

That's right.

And. And that's your life because at the end of the day, like, what you attend to will determine everything. So. Yeah, so. So that I'm very cognizant of that And, And I guess, like, there's also. And I don't know if this is a. I go back and forth of whether this is a good thing or a bad thing about me.

Yeah, right.

But, like, I want to win. I always want to win. Right. But like, I'm not money motivated, like, at all. Like, yeah, I, you know, at all. Right. Like, it just doesn't. And so if you're not money motivated. Not that I don't like money. I do. And I become insanely money motivated when I don't have enough. Right. But once I have enough, once I'm comfortable, like, you know, and, you know, everyone has their own definition of comfortable. I don't have a Jet, I don't have a Bugatti, I don't have a. I don't have any of those things, but there's no desire in me to have those things. And I do have a house I love. I have every toy I want. If I want to go somewhere tomorrow, I can afford to go somewhere tomorrow. And I don't have to check any balances or anything like that. And so I'm happy and I'm comfortable, and that's like all I really need. So then if that's not your main driver, right, Then. Then what, what is it gonna be?

That's it.

You know, and for me, it's really been about impact. Before that was unconscious. Like, that was what it was, and I didn't even realize it. What was really interesting to me is that when I started Steal Our Winners, right? And you know, David and I were talking off air about it, that I started Steal Our Winners because every time that in my life, like I went from here to here, or most of the times in my life when I helped a client go from here to here, it was on the back of a strategy or tactic that was brand new or not known by many. And so I wanted to create a platform that delivered that to everyone, and a platform where I would be getting that on a very consistent basis so that I could then help my clients. Yeah. And one of the things that blew me away until to this day it still blows me away, is that when we decided to launch this product right back in the beginning of like 2020, I think, right before COVID like a month or two before COVID we decided to do it with a 24 hour live stream. And. And I've done numerous 24 hour live streams before where I'm just live the whole time, 24 hours. Like, you know, and. And so we did a 24 hour live stream here. Not here, like in. In this town, but not in this office. We did it in Delray Beach, Florida, and we did it at my mentor's cigar bar, Mark Ford, AKA Michael Masterson. He built I. I own a private cigar bar. Like, for me, like, one of my buildings that I own. But, yeah, it's nice, but it's not like all that. And. But Mark, after I built mine, he built. He built a beautiful place that there's only five keys, like, his key. And then he gave four of us keys. And there's millions and millions of dollars worth of art on the, like, walls. It's a full bar. Like, it's just beautiful. And best cigars, like money can buy. And so we did the live stream from there, and I invited, you know, all these top people to come and be on the live stream for half an hour.

Yeah.

And everyone did. And I was so shocked. Like, I didn't, you know, like, Russell Brunson, private jet flew in, Ryan Dice, you know, you name it, everybody was here. And I was so honored by that. Like, I had no idea that, like, I had that kind of social capital. And I, like. So this product that I have Steal our winners, right. Like, as David said, We produce 104 episodes a year, and every one is about a strategy or tactic that's currently crushing it. And in order to do that, we have over 200 contributors that have contributed to Steal our winners. And the business, or the product, whichever you want to call it, is very much reliant on people willing to share. And I have been consistently blown away when I have reached out to someone. Not like, in our world, like, you know, our little Internet marketing world, but, like, but in online marketing. In online marketing, but not in our little world. Right. And. And I've been blown away at how many people have heard my name, heard good things about me, and I had no clue, like, zero clue how important my reputation would be later in life. And I just feel insanely fortunate that I didn't do anything to mess it up because, like, there were many things I've done over the years when I was younger that could have messed it up very badly. So I'm like, this desire to make an impact because, like, I have no other way to, like, keep score in a bigger way other than the money I make, which that's useful way to keep score, but it doesn't really drive me. Has paid enormous dividends. Right, Right. Like, you know, and those enormous dividends have once again helped me stay on top of things. I know what's working, you know, like, it also leads to some problems in friendships at times.

Understood.

Like the other side because and no, because, like I will get upset with friends. Like, I'm upset with one of my friends right now. I'm not going to say who it is. But the. But like when I ever I come across something, right, like it's my go to is to immediately be telling different friends about it, right? Like if I record a great episode at Steal Our Winners, I'm sending it to a bunch of my friends way before we ever publish it. Being like, you got to check this out. And so I recently, this is a little while ago, but there's a cool platform called App Lovin that a P P L O V I n that you can advertise in apps. And everyone that I've spoken to about it recently has told me that it's delivering them customers at a cheaper rate than any place else. A couple of divisions at Agora and a couple other places that I don't want to mention because like people don't know that they're a client of mine. So I'm not going to say it. And because they don't want to be known. So I was at Agora last Tuesday, like four days ago. I was up in Baltimore for the day and Applovin came up, which I like had recently become familiar with because someone had told me I saw how well it was like performing in this division. Holy crap. So I then do what I need to do, like helping Agora there. And then at the next break, I'm texting two of my friends about it, like, are you using Applovin and have you heard about it? And one of my friends was like, yeah, it's actually delivering us like the cheapest customers of any platform. And so then my text back was then was like, then why am I telling you about this? Why am I telling you about this? Like, you're one of my closest friends. Why am I just hearing about it now? Like I'm texting you? I just found out about it, right? You've been running ads, the lowest customer thing. And I'm just finding out about it now because I'm telling you about it. Like, why didn't you tell me about it? Right, right. Like I expect it from my friends. That's my point. Right? Like I'm that way. But I get really pissed and annoyed with my friends that I keep informed when it's not reciprocated. Right? Like, right. And because of that, lots of people do reciprocate and so lots of people are telling me when something is new and working and great. And so that makes me better because at the end of the day, like, I could be the smartest person on the planet, but by myself, I'm not going to know more than someone who's connected and wired to a lot of people and is sharing information back and forth with.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So, Rich, where can people get plugged in? Because I. I think this is obviously a great resource. Where can someone get started? We want to learn about still. Still our winners and be a part of it.

Well, if they want to learn about steal our winners, they can go to strategic profits dot com. I think if you go to stealourwinners.com it will also just redirect you.

Okay.

And we have a free trial, so you can go check it out. Every episode is anywhere from like 30 minutes to an hour. It's not a podcast, so we're. There's like, we're not interested in someone's backstory. We're not interested in, like, all the questions that David was asking me today. I don't ask, like, what I want to know is, like, what result did you get? What are the steps that you took to get that result so that other people, like our subscribers can get that result? That's it. Right. So episodes. We have some episodes that are as short as 15 minutes because that's all it took. Most episodes are between a half an hour and an hour. And yeah, you can take a trial and just, you know, see what it does for you. Every episode has a action guide, a step by step of how to apply it, transcript, everything else. Right. So you can go there at some point. I do plan on starting up a daily livestream again in the mornings, and if people are interested in that, it'll be on any of my plat. Any of the platforms that I'm on. So I'm on YouTube. Rich Sheffrin, Instagram. The real Rich Chefron, LinkedIn, also Rich Sheffrin, like, you know, so. And when I'm back to live streaming, I'll probably broadcast on every ease, you know, on every platform. And. And I'm probably most active right now, at least on Instagram. Not that I'm that active, but most active on Instagram. I will probably move more to YouTube at some point. But, like, I've been on YouTube for 16 years and I have like 10,000 followers, so it's never been a big kind of thing for me. I would like to do a lot more with social media. And maybe at some point I will, but it all depends on just where. Where life takes me, I guess.

Absolutely. Well, Rich, I want to ask you the question we ask every guest on the show. Our final question. What's the difference between one's gift and one's purpose? One's gift and one's purpose?

Well, your gifts are what allow you to pursue that purpose and to be able to potentially fulfill it. The there's one thing that I used to teach a lot, that I don't have the chance to talk about it as frequently as I used to. But, you know, people would sometimes ask me, like, if I join your coaching program, right? Back in my days of business coaching a lot, if I join your coaching program, how much money am I going to be making in three months from now? And I'd look at them and be like, are you serious? And they'd be. They would be, oh, serious. Siri was serious. The But. And I'd be like, shut up, Siri. Shut up, Siri. Okay, So I would say, are you serious? And they would be like, yeah. And I'm like, I have no idea what you'll be making. I don't know if you'll even be making money, like, in three months. Like, I have no idea. And anyone that tells you a number is full of shit. Like, Apple doesn't know what they're going to be making in three months from now. And they've got a lot of people working there, like, trying to figure it out. How would I know what you're going to do with the stuff that I teach you and where you're going to do it and all those kinds of things to give you a number. What that person who asked me that question, and there were many that asked that, like, you know, whatever, have a warped view of success, success in business, success anywhere, right? The. Because what that person is trying to do is trying to get security in a place where they can't be any security. So it's. It's what I call that is the illusion of certainty or the illusion of security, right? Like, that anyone could give you. Like, if you just do X and Y, you get Z, like always. No, that's not the case. Like, you know, especially when you're trying to grow a business, it doesn't work that way. And so there's the illusion of security and there's the reality of uncertainty. Okay? Now, the two sports that I like to watch, right, are UFC, you know, mixed martial arts and the CrossFit Games. And I. I don't compete in CrossFit. Like, you know, I've done a couple CrossFit workouts in my life, but just a couple. But I love watching the CrossFit games and I love watching the CrossFit games because they don't know what they're going to be competing in before they get there. So how do you prepare for something, how do you prepare for a competition when you don't know what the competition is? Right, right. Like how do you run a race? Because this was one of, this was one of the contests at the CrossFit Games. How do you run a race when they tell you run but you don't know if you're, if this is a mile run or a 20 mile run? Like how do you deal with that? Yeah, right. Like that you'll know when the race is over. When it's over. Right. So you can't Prepare for the CrossFit games specifically. Right. Because you don't know what you're going to be competing in. All you can do is prepare yourself for whatever comes up. Right. Because the same people win every year.

Right?

So it's not chance, it's not random. But you can only prepare yourself for whatever comes up, not prepare yourself for something specific. And it's the same with fighting. You don't know what the other guy is going to do. So you also like, are don't know exactly how the fight's going to go out. Right. It's not like that in football. In football you know that they're going to try and run it to the, you know, to the touchdown. In basketball, you know that they're going to run down the lane and try and shoot a basket. Like that's not how it works in these two sports. And those two sports to me are much more like life. You have no idea like what is going to be important next week for you or next month. Right. You don't know. You can't prepare in advance. But what you can do is you can be the best prepared to be confident. So that's why I say it's the reality of uncertainty. Like where most people make the mistake. Like the person asking me how much they're going to be making in three months from now. They're looking for some security that doesn't exist. That doesn't. That's not the real world. The real world is uncertain. So, okay, you're going to build a business in this world that's uncertain or you're going to pursue any goal in this world that's uncertain. And how can you Be best prepared. Well, all you can do is prepare yourself to be prepared for whatever comes up, right? So how do you work on yourself in a way where you can confidently walk down the path of uncertainty and have confidence in your own ability to deal with whatever comes up, Right. And that is life and that is business, and that is everything, right? So that's like, I think the bigger message. Like, if I leave people with a message, I'd like to leave them with that and one other, right? So the first thing is, how do you work on yourself so that you can be confident in a world that is uncertain, Right? So the confidence doesn't come from being attached to anything outside yourself. It is based on what you've done inside yourself. Right? So when I taught, like, when I was doing a lot of business coaching, I was not telling the entrepreneurs exactly what to do, right? I was building them up enough to be able to handle whatever comes up and to give them enough distinctions to spot those things and then ways of acting on those things and so on and so forth. So that. So there's the illusion of security versus the reality of uncertainty. So that's the first thing. And then the second thing is that it is if you're in business and it's your business, you make the rules. And because you make the rules, there's. You have a responsibility and an obligation to yourself. And here's what I mean by that. Most entrepreneurs make the mistake of designing their business around some mythical version of themselves. In other words, them without the flaws that they really have. Right? So I tend to. I could give you a lot of examples like this, but I'm not going to. I'm just going to give one. But so I tend to procrastinate somewhat of a perfectionist, like, all this kind of stuff. And I, like, you know, when I started my company 25 years ago, like, I was in charge of all content, developing new programs, like, all that kind of stuff. And. But I couldn't. Like, you could lock me in a hotel room to finish a course and tell me I'm not allowed out until I finish and I won't finish. Like, I'll always be working on it. And so how do I build a company where the person in charge of developing new products, content and programs is a procrastinator and perfectionist and can't be relied on to get stuff, like, done and completed and out there? Like, you know, I could just say, well, I'm gonna have to fix that about myself, and that would be the wrong thing to do. Because anytime that you put a personal change goal in front of some business success goal, you've just delayed the business success goal maybe indefinitely. Because personal change is hard. So the question is, how can you design the business so that your flaws are irrelevant? Right? So the way that I marketed in the beginning of my growth of my company by writing a free report, sharing a bunch of beliefs with people, then a month later or whenever, releasing a, you know, a campaign for a live coaching program with me to fulfill on the beliefs, promises and stuff like that in the report allowed me then the time to then actually start working on the course. But the course would never be finished until each time I had to deliver it live. Like Wednesdays at 3 o' clock was when I used to do like my, the business growth system. My first coaching program at 2:59 is when I finished the slides. No matter when I started, I could start a week before, a month before, the night before. I only finished, always a minute before. And so I designed my business to make those flaws irrelevant. And I've done it with lots of areas of my life. I said, I'm not money motivated. I'm not. But a business needs to be money motivated. So how does a business get money motivated when the owner isn't now the way most people are like, well, I'm just gonna have to work on myself. No, screw that. How does the business get money motivated without you being money motivated? Design that business, right? So one of the ways that I've been helpful to my clients has been one getting them to understand that the path they're going down is an uncertain path. So they have to place their effort on making themselves confident based on what they know, what they can do and those things. And then the second thing is, let's be really clear about who you really are, because we can design a business that can succeed around that. So we don't have to put some personal goals in front of your business success. We will just make your business successful based on who you are right now. And, and you know, I share those two things here at the end because like so many of the things I taught early on are like in the marketplace now, right? And the stuff that I taught most of that stuff was not original to me. I mean it was my spin on those things. But like, you know, I just brought a tremendous amount of like business wisdom, literature and ways of looking at things into the market, like focusing on your strengths and things like that that were very obvious to me and, but, and to some people in the world. But wasn't obvious to people in our space at that time. But so many of the things I've taught, especially because I taught so many of the people that are influencers in so many different areas, right? Not just in Internet marketing, but like, you name an area, it, you know, if they sell online, I probably had some impact the that most of my good ideas are like, that were unique and new are no longer unique and new, like, because they, I taught them to all the people who teach people. So it's out there, right? And that's fine because I like, you know, that's the way it works, right? But those two things, like build the business around who you really are, not some mythical version of who you are and what the game is that you're really playing, you're walking down the path of uncertainty. So how do you confidently walk down that path? Like, those two things, for whatever reason never made it, like, past my clients, right? Like most of the other things did. So that's why I love to end by sharing those two thoughts, because I believe that they're really critical to each and every entrepreneur's success. And I do believe that, that 99% of entrepreneurs build a business around some version of themselves that does not have the problems that they really have. And because of that, the likelihood of their success plummets. And all they had to do was just get honest and real about who they really are. And then to think about how can a business make those flaws irrelevant? Like, what has to happen in this business so that the owner, the person running it, who has these qualities or these flaws, doesn't mess it up, you know? And I guess the biggest advantage I've had is just that I'm very aware of the flaws that I have and I've been able to out fox them, like, plan ahead, like, think through how I can make that flaw irrelevant. Right? And it's the same with, like, my current self and my future self. I am very clear that my future self is going to be as lazy as my current self. Like, and that, like, I'm not going to feel like doing anything more tomorrow than I did today. So if I need to do something tomorrow, like, how can I set it up for my future self so that it's as easy as humanly possible? Like, because I know, right? Like, I guess all of these things point to just. I think everything I've been talking about today is how important it is to be ruthlessly honest with yourself. You know, what do you need to work effectively? How do you. What really drives you what are the flaws that you need to manage around? Like, are you really preparing yourself to be confident no matter what room you have to walk into? These things are all about just getting real with yourself, about being really honest with yourself, about noticing what's how you really operate and to have that level, to know yourself better than anyone else knows yourself and therefore be able to get the most out of yourself because you know yourself. I hope that makes sense.

It makes total sense. I, I don't think, and I'm saying this with all honesty, speaking of honesty, I have taken as many notes on a episode and I've done over a hundred and whatever, 110 episodes. So thank you, Rich, for just pouring out. I know you're a very busy man. I know you're highly a man in.

Demand.

And I'm grateful for you and I thank you for the. So I know that you've made an impact on me. Without even knowing you. You've made an impact through like mentors and people that I've learned from. You're like, like a grandfather mentor or a godfather mentor. Like, like. And I didn't know where maybe some of the things and the thought philosophies and the things. And now I am a beneficiary of the impact and I didn't even know. So. And now as I get to know you, I'm getting even more impact directly. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Rich, for, for your time on this episode and for pouring out and, and, and I'm so great.

My pleasure. And is there, like, if I give you something, is there a way for you to give it to your.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Okay. Okay, so give me one second here. So I wrote like seven or eight free reports, and those were all marketing reports. And then I also wrote a bunch of client only reports. So for example, when we first did the, when we first did the automated webinars, right. Like I wrote a report about it called Evergreen Event Driven Marketing and how this was going to be the future. Right. And that was a client only report. That was not like a free report. Right? Like, what the hell? All right, yeah, I just got to go into Dropbox. I don't know what the hell's going on here. I've been moving a lot of files, so maybe that's something to do with it, but I doubt it. So let's do here Strategic Profits Founders Club reports. There they are. Okay, so this is. I'll just. This is a 108 page report that I wrote about the differences I saw in the clients Like Russell Brunson and Ryan Dice and those people. And the people that if I mentioned, you would have never heard of because. Well, because they didn't succeed. Right. And so what is the difference? And so I wrote this. This is the only report I ever wrote about, like, the inner game of business. And it got me a. Like, this also got me more positive feedback than anything that I've ever written to Founders Club, which really doesn't make a lot of sense because, like, I gave them the Web, the automated webinar at the very beginning. But nonetheless, this is called the Hidden Obstacles to youo Success. And it's really a report all about thinking. Yeah, about. Because that's the difference.

Yeah.

The people that are most successful think more. They think more accurately. They think better. And so this report is all about how to do that. How do you think a lot more accurately, how do you think a lot more often? And how do you do it in a way that really grows your business? And so that's what the Hidden Obstacles report is. And, yeah, I wrote it, like, 15 years ago. But, you know, in a other story that I think we were talking about the other day, I actually just went through this report again because I thought it would be beneficial for me to go through it. And so I guess that's the best testimonial I can give for it that, like, I. Fifteen years later, I'm going through it to raise my game. And I think it'll do the same for anyone that goes through it. And a great way to go through it is maybe skim it, then load it into ChatGPT and then have ChatGPT ask you all the questions in the report and answer them in CHAT GPT so that, like, CHAT GPT can even give you some insight on your answers.

Oh, wow. I'm gonna do that myself and let you know. Report back to you. That's awesome.

Thank you. My pleasure, my friends. Yes, you're welcome.

We're grateful, listeners. This is gonna be one of those episodes you need to listen over and over again. I know that's what I'm gonna do. So thank you again, Rich, and thank you, listeners, for tuning in. Sa.