"My student's average salary is $250k" - Sales Guru Rich Schefren part 1

You're listening to the Uncensored Direct Marketing Show. This show is designed for direct response marketers who want raw, unfiltered conversion tips and secrets to scale their offers profitably to reach their next million. I'm Maria Espirakis. I'm the founder of Direct Paynet and your host. Now let's dive in. Thank you very much everyone for joining us. Today on Uncensored Direct Marketing, I have Rich Sheffrin, who is the guru of the guru to the gurus. I think that's. That's how we. We. That's how I read it online. So, Rich, I mean, pretty much everybody in direct response and online marketing knows who you are, but I'll give a brief intro and then I'll let you say a little bit about yourself. So Rich has coached pretty much all the gurus that everyone follows in direct response. Russell Brunson, Ryan Dice, Dan Kennedy, Jay Abram, and so many more influencers in our industry. So you've also invented the automated webinar in 2009. Feels like a long time ago, but that's pretty recent in relative terms. And you scaled just an insane amount of businesses to seven figures and beyond. So that's just a quick intro. And I know you have so much more, so I just want to ask you just if you can give us a little rundown about what's been keeping you busy in the last 10 or 15 years.

Yeah, well, I did a company called Strategic profits back in 2004, and I partnered with Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy, but I didn't really coach them. That would be a little bit more than what I've really done. I've also worked for Agora Publishing for the last 17 years as well and have a testimonial from them, billion dollar testimonial and help them grow to a $2 billion company. And what else? Invented the automated webinar in 2007, not 2009. And yeah, I sold my company to Agora or half of it. Then I bought it back. And in the interim, I sold it in 2017, got busy on some projects we didn't launch until 2019. We launched a product called Steal Our Winners, and at the end of 2019, I bought the business back from Agora. And so Steal Our Winners is still our flagship. We've got a lot of cool things coming up. But every month, what Steal Our Winners delivers each and every month are tactics and strategies that are currently crushing it that the world doesn't know about. And that's important because every marketing Tactic over time degrades, especially online. And it happens faster and faster. And the average amount of time that it takes for a strategy or tactic to get into a course is several years. So VSLs, for example, John Benson invented that at the end of 2005. The first course on VSLs wasn't until 2010 when we invented automated webinars in 2007. The programs that like webinar jam and things like that didn't come around until 2010 or 2011. And so there are many things like that where there's this ample delay. And in that delay, time is when actually the strategies work best and it requires the least amount of effort. And so that's when we try to deliver our strategies and tactics to our clients. And we have 120 contributors, some of the names that you mentioned, plus a whole lot more, really the best of the best in all categories of online marketing throughout the world. And yeah, so that's what we do.

That's awesome. Well, I mean, just, even just from yourself and your background, I'm sure there, you know, like I told you earlier, I went through the rabbit hole of your content and I was like, holy shit, this is like int stuff. And actually everybody characterizes you and people. Oh, I heard a lot of people say, you know, rich is very intense. And I was like, wow, I didn't get it until I started watching the content and so forth. So, I mean, I've watched a lot of the Steeler winners stuff and it's fantastic. I was watching something on YouTube actually, and you know, how to kind of scale your YouTube channel and so forth, and I'm like, okay. I literally watched maybe the first 15, 20 minutes and had like a page of notes. So you're doing a very good service to everybody in the. In the space. So thanks, thanks for coming out that product. I, you know, a lot of people talk about your history and, you know, it's all available online. I'm actually just curious about something that like, maybe isn't so obvious. Like, for example, you know, everybody has a defining moment in life. Like something that kind of changes them for me. You know, we briefly spoke, but it was. I joined, you know, the team at Pornhub in 2005, and that was a defining moment in my life. It was like, oh, shit. Like, I didn't even know what I was getting myself into. Got into that. So is there any like, kind of really big, like, aha or defining moment that kind got you to the path where you are today?

Well, there definitely was a game Changing event, I guess. And that really was when I wrote the Internet Business Manifesto, which was the first free report that I ever released. It also coincided with, I guess really like the beginning of giving things away for free online other than like a five day mini course course or something like that, because that's what people used to opt in to get like five days worth of emails. And I wrote this report back when I had just finished a coaching program with like Mike Filsaim and Ryan Deiss and a bunch of those guys. And I had just finished and I had this big project with Agora three months later. And I didn't really have a list and I didn't have any front end customers and I wanted to coach a group of people and I was hoping maybe I could get like a dozen people or something like that to coach for this three month period before I started this project with Agora. And I decided that I would write a report to try and get those dozen clients. And the report ended up, I posted it to my blog, it was 31 pages long and it ended up going viral. So I didn't get a dozen clients, but I got thousands of clients. And really my life was very different the week before I launched the manifesto to a week after I launched the manifesto. And as far as notoriety, as far as income and everything else, and I would say that I really rode that pretty hard for about six years from 2006 to 2012. And I'd say like after 2009, that's like when we had our webinar really kicking butt. So I kind of faded away back into the background. And then in 2012 when I kind of semi retired and took five years off, then I became very unknown to a whole group of people who started in 2012 and beyond. So I'm well known to people who have been around like pre 2012. And there's a lot of people there that don't know me.

Dinosaurs, like yeah.

Yeah. I'd say that that was probably the biggest game changing thing though that's ever happened to me. I mean, I really never thought that that would be the outcome. I wasn't like aiming for that. I was just hoping to get a dozen clients. So it was kind of cool.

Oh, that's cool. Well, yeah, I mean, and what was like when you, when you were doing this, this was just like a test. You just said, oh, let me just try this out, see how it works. If I manifesto and give for free, what was your goal? Your goal was just to get a couple of like A dozen people to.

Kind of follow it, to want to be coached by me. And I had this. So one of the owners of Agora is, or one of the founders is a gentleman by the name of Mark Ford, who also goes by the pen name Michael Masterson. And Mark is like a surrogate dad to me as well as Jay Abraham. Those two guys have been my primary mentors in my life, both business wise, but also personally as well. And so Mark lives in Delray beach, where I live. And so we get together quite often and smoke cigars. And he's kind of academically oriented like I am, I guess, in a certain way. And both of us like to come up with theories all the time. And so we sometimes spend time coming up with theories. And we were talking about marketing one time and we had this thought that if you sell something because you believe in it, not that you believe in it because you sell it, but the other way you sell it because you believe in it, that you believe that your prospects would greatly benefit from the thing that you offer them. And your prospects are not, they're not buying, not all of them, then odds are it's because they haven't reached the same conclusions that you've reached. And the reason that you've reached the conclusions that you've reached is that you've had certain experiences that have led you to that conclusion. Whatever it is, whether you've learned certain things, noticed certain things, spoken to certain people, whatever it is, you didn't come to this belief out of nowhere. And so one way of looking at marketing is taking your prospects through an abbreviated, accelerated version of that so that they can come to the same conclusion. So that's like one thought that I've had ever since we had that conversation. And actually I've used that when I'm teaching marketing sometimes to people who are brand new. Like, it's a good way for them to start thinking about it. Yeah, so that was like a point of reference. And then there was the second point of reference that I was listening to a Dan Kennedy program on coaching and consulting. And I'll never forget this because there were like there was a product, right? And then there was like a series of four calls. And on one of the calls someone asked a question. I was listening to a recorded version, so I wasn't live right. Someone asked a question. That was the question that had I had the opportunity to ask and had I asked a question, this would have been the question I asked. And the question was, I have no front end products. I'm Afraid of taking the material from my coaching program and putting them in my front end products because I'm afraid I'll cannibalize my front end product. I'll cannibalize my coaching program. And, and so. And I don't remember exactly how he worded the question, but that was the question. I do remember verbatim what Dan said, because that kind of got seared in my mind. He just kind of. First he laughed at him. He's like, he chuckled. And then he said, bubba, you just don't get it. And then he said, you put your best ideas in your front end products. That's what's going to get them to want to join your coaching program. And so I had these two thoughts, right? Like that marketing is just taking people through an accelerated version of your own experience. And this other thing about that getting your best ideas in front of people is what gets people to want to join your coaching program. And so I just combined those two, removed the idea of charging people for a front end product and decided to write a report that would literally give people a perspective of some of the things that I had experienced that I noticed that I believed that when other people saw it, they would feel that, oh, if I did that, my life would be easier and I would make more money. And so by taking people through process maps, which nobody at that time had seen, and then showing them what swim lanes are and how a process could be broken apart in my business, that showed the handoffs and when and who. And people would see that and say, wow, that would be a lot if I had those, that would be a lot easier than the next thing. And so, like, after a couple of different experiences like that, having read the report, they would come to a conclusion that I came to, which was they'd be making more money if they understood business the way I did. And so that then led people to that epiphany. And it was one of the reasons why it went as viral as it did. It wasn't really something that I did, right. But like, it was that people found answers in it to problems that they were struggling with and then passed it along to other people that they cared about. They didn't care about me, they cared about their friends. And they passed along the report because they thought it could help their friends. And so that, that really was. I had, my hope was that I would get a dozen clients. I had no idea, right. Like, and. But you know, obviously it worked out a lot better than that.

I definitely resonate with that myself. Like in my business, the same thing. I always give people tons of free advice, and they're like, you know, you could be charging a lot of money for this. I'm like, it's okay. We'll find another way to make money. There's like, if you, if you provide value, people are going to come back for stuff. So that's, I mean, that's, that's really, like, obviously it was a vanguard when you did it, because back then, you know, nobody. Nobody was doing, giving anything for free. It was like, you got to pay everything except porn memberships, because we were doing those for free for a couple of weeks.

If you know your top, it's like, I do a live stream twice a week, and while I don't always know what I want to cover in any given week, I'm not concerned with sharing everything I know. Like, you know, if you're not threatened by your field sharing stuff, like, I'm always learning new stuff. And so whatever, I could share everything I know today. And in a week from now, there'll be stuff that I didn't know today, you know, and so if you're an expert and you're always growing your field, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Yeah, for sure. And, I mean, that actually takes me to my next question. It's good that you mentioned that point. So, you know, you're. You're loving to learn and kind of keep. Keep kind of abreast of everything new. Since you're, you know, you're. You're teaching other gurus and you're kind of seeing all these people that are very successful in the business. What are, like, the, the top kind of habits and characteristics that somebody, you know, that you've coached or that's in your circle, that makes them like. I'm sure a lot of these people that are in your circle have very common traits. What would you say they are?

Yeah, for sure. I would say that, like, a great portion of them have add, But I would say that, like, you know, when I started coaching, because I was like, I was the first or one of the first business coaches online, you know, the field wasn't as well developed, I guess you could say, as it is now. And so when I started coaching, I was bringing a lot of material that at that time, I guess, was somewhat new to the entrepreneurial market. And so a lot of the stuff that I've taught has been, like, absorbed by the marketplace, I would say. Right. Like 15 years ago when I was teaching, like, build a business around your strengths that was something relatively new that's not really anything new now. So a lot of, I would say a lot of my ideas have kind of made it into the marketplace, but there are some that haven't, and some of the ones that haven't, I believe, are at least as critical, if not more critical. So the first thing I would say is that one of the most common mistakes and one of the most common mistakes that entrepreneurs make across the board, whether they're my clients or someone else's, is that they, when they think about the business that they want to build and they're designing this business and they have this dream of this business, they often are not really dreaming about who they are as much as they're dreaming about some mythical version of themselves that they're then building a business around, like, someone other than who they currently are. And that's a big mistake. And so where that tends to come up is when I'm talking to an entrepreneur and they feel like there's a problem with them or that they're disappointing their business or that they can't be motivated or whatever it is more time, more often than not, it's because the business was designed not around who they really are, but who they would like to be. And so that is a huge mistake. And a book that came out, like, over a decade ago, it could be even a lot longer, I don't remember, but it was called Change or Die. That was the title, and it was written by a doctor that. And it was about, like, when someone is given that choice, like, you either are going to die if you don't change. 90% don't change. They die. Yeah, like, you know, like after the fourth bypass, heart attack. And they're told, like, look, it's. You either have to get healthy or you're going to drop dead. 90% do drop dead. And that's just because personal change is really difficult. And you don't want to put your business success after some goal that's difficult to achieve. That just doesn't make any sense. And it says it's not a recipe for happiness either. So to give more dimension to this, there are two things that two examples from my own personal life that are the easiest to share. Although I've worked with a ton of clients on this and I could share their stories, but I'd prefer not just because, you know, I don't necessarily want to advertise people's weaknesses.

Yeah.

But my, like, so two of the weaknesses I have, right, Is that it's like I'm A perfectionist as relates to content or courses that I'm creating that I believe like will be long term. And then it becomes like a, or even a presentation. For some reason, presentations for me, I never finish until like the exact last minute that I can actually physically finish. And sometimes that means like me walking to the stage with my laptop in my hand, like making the final change. And I so like, if you locked me in a hotel room for a month and told me to create a course, like, I'd still be messing with it on day 30. Like, you know, and so I, knowing that about myself, that that's going to be a challenge, right? And that we have to have courses though, dictated that like my marketing strategy would be one where like all the products I ever created, I created live. I sold it first, showed up where like and coaching programs that I created, I actually sold it, delivered it live because it needed to be delivered live for me to get hit the deadlines and then it would be finished. And that's the only way I ever created it because I knew that another way would not work for me. Sometimes that was unpleasant, but we made it work as best and in certain ways better than other things could work because that was the constraint that we had to kind of manage. Another one is that I'm not money motivated and money is not the thing for me at all. And once I have enough and my level of enough is not disproportionate to what I make, it's much less than what I make. But in order for a business to be effective, the business better be about money. We have to make a profit. And so I could either try and change who I am or I could just figure out another way. And so I haven't yet done it, but we're getting ready to with the current strategic profits. But before I sold strategic profits to Agora and before all that, we always had a very aggressive profit sharing program. And I've had that in my other businesses before where basically turning everyone on the team into someone who if they're money motivated. A meeting was once a week and my whole team was figuring out how we're going to maximize our profits this month. Because I always paid monthly the profit sharing one month behind. So my whole team would meet every Friday, look at the financials, figuring out who can we promote, what can we do? And I never even went to those meetings, but the team would take on that part because of me recognizing that this is a weak point of myself as an entrepreneur. It's a weak point to not care about money, to not be money motivated. That's easily gotten around by figuring out some other way that the business needs to be money motivated without you being money motivated. But if you don't make that change now, it's like I have that weekly responsibility of looking at the financials and figuring out how we're going to maximize. And it's going to be something I don't enjoy, probably not going to do it as frequently as I need to. And so it's going to be problematic. And so I would say of all the things that I've seen, that's probably the biggest mistake. And really, like in any area where you as the entrepreneur feel like you've disappointed or gotten in the way of, or hampered the growth of your business, more often than not, it's about looking at who you are as a person and is that really the best thing for you to be doing or is there another way for the business to get it done? Right? Like, there is a, like on a very superficial level, right? Like you as the entrepreneur have a to do list, but that doesn't mean that everything on that list is for you to do or the business to get done. And the more things on the list that you don't have to do, the better. And so understanding that and understanding that there are things that you should always do and then there are things you should never do are critically important for an entrepreneur to know specifically about themselves and about what are those things. So I would say that's probably the biggest thing of all the things.

So, I mean, you touched upon a couple of interesting things first. I mean, your uncanny ability to know what you should not be doing and figuring out a way to get it done, that's obviously a trait that I see commonly in successful people myself. Like, I talk to a lot of successful direct response marketers in my day to day, and I can tell it's like almost master delegation and knowing how to get things done without getting that done. But you, you mentioned, you know that money doesn't motivate you. And so what does motivate you? What is the driving force before, like, when you get up and you're like, this is why I'm doing this.

Well, there's two, well, there's a couple different things. So the first thing I'd say along those lines, I'm going to give you a longer answer. So it's not going to be a direct answer, but it will be direct by the time it's done. So I went through another reason why I had decided to exit the market for a while in 2012. One, we had been crushing it and really didn't see the need to keep going. But the other reason was is that I started down the path of a midlife crisis. And that started because I had turned 40 and I had already achieved everything that I had wanted to achieve, goals in life. By the time I was 40, by the time I was. By the time the manifesto came out, and everything else as well. At 40, I recognized that I really wasn't happy. And that was problematic because I didn't even know at that point what to do to be happy. Because I had all these goals that I had achieved and now I wasn't happy. And I'm like, oh, shit, that's not good. And so I kind of realized that the achievement of any goal really just made me happy for a week or two, no matter how big of a deal it was, and that therefore, goals didn't really make that much sense to me. So I tried not having any goals. That really was completely ineffective. So then I switched to really thinking about when did I feel most alive, when did shit just come together for me and I was on point. And when I really looked at it. And I've been keeping a journal for 30 years. So a lot of these questions, like figuring out my weak points, these are easier for me because I've got books and books and books of my life journal every day, almost every day. You know, it's not. It's not like a religious activity for me, but I try to make time every day. And most days I do the I. So I'd say that totally lost my train of thought here for a second. So give me a second. You are the. So what I then realized was when I was most alive, when I felt most alive, right? I was in pursuit of something. Pursuit. So I realized that this is very cliche, but when they talk about goals, they talk about it's the journey, not the destination. But to me, the journey is everything, and the destination really is nothing. And so for me, the way I choose goals is really just on their impact on being able to get me out of bed and be excited. That's the only, like, the idea of having a goal that I'm not. That doesn't motivate me, to me is absurd. Because then what's motivating you? Because it's not the getting it of it that's going to disappear after you've had it for a week. So the only purpose for me to have a goal is that it gets me out of bed in the morning, and if it gets me out of bed in the morning, excited to be doing whatever the hell I'll be doing, then it's serving its role. And so I've worked with a bunch of entrepreneurs where they might have had a goal of building a $2 million business. And we could simplify that to 10,000 a day because they had a phone room and stuff like that. And it's like your goal is to get to 10,000 each day as quickly as possible, and then your day is over. To make it more of a game and make it something that is much more real in the moment. So I would say that for me, that's the way I look at goals. But what I would also say is that I'm very interested in bigger trends overall, and I've always fooled myself into believing that I'm going to have a much greater impact than I'm actually probably going to have. You know, when I was in the clothing business, I thought I was totally going to change the way retailing was done. I think I made some changes that actually did, like, find its way into places, but, like, I never had that kind of impact. Right. When I opened up my hypnosis centers, I really thought we were going to change the way, like, mental health was dealt with. We totally didn't. But in the moment, that's what fueled me going forward. And I would say that I feel the same now with Steal Our Winners. At first, it was actually what we were delivering, but now it's much more about what we're building towards. And so it took a year of the product and delivering it to really figure out, where do we want to take this? Conceptually, it's strong, but where do we want to ride it and where are we taking it? That is the next big thing that I'm excited about because I believe we're taking the best models from Netflix and how they use data from Audible and their business model and the way they charge with credits and what you get, and taking all of these things that I've seen work in much bigger companies and now bring them into our world of information products and things like that. And it hasn't been done in our space using data to the point. And this won't be phase one or phase two, but where we'll ultimately get to where funnels are being built on the fly based on what actions the person just took, the step before, and what we know about that person to the next step. Right. And we can have that amount of Data and we've built a platform to acquire that kind of data. And so now like the idea of what we're building becomes something much bigger that potentially can have greater impact. And for me at this stage, I like to build things that impact the way others do things.

So it's like, did you say kind of like a personalized funnel? Let's say we're buying supplements and I come into your funnel and it's like for a weight loss supplement. And you kind of know a lot about me. You would personalize my funnel to send me to different places based on my behaviors?

Well, something like that. But different than that. Like where, like I can show you real quick. I can't show too much because my team will kill me, but I can if.

Don't worry about it. I'm just curious because that sounds like really cool. Like that would be like personalized, almost like personalized selling, like a little bit.

Different than what you're thinking. But I'm more than happy to. I'll share it with you if you just want to. Is this going to be on video or is it going to be on audio?

There's audio and video. We're both on YouTube.

Yeah. So let's. Let me show it to you quick because then I'll explain what we're doing so that. Because you might have a different perspective of you might be thinking differently than what I'm talking about. That's fair.

I'm really curious about this. I'm sure everybody, if you're listening on audio, then head on to YouTube so you can see what Rich is going to share with us.

All right, so what we've. So steal our winners. The way it was packaged or still is packaged is, is that each month we deliver anywhere from 8 to 12, sometimes 7, but like numerous strategies and tactics that are currently crushing it. And right now the way they're delivered is like in an issue and it's completely wrong because it kind of gives the implication that you should go through the whole thing, which you shouldn't. And it also is not. There's no intelligence built into it because we were using a outside platform. So what we've done. And so we're just really beginning the process. We actually just sold a program where we're letting a bunch of people kind of like look over our shoulder as we do this. But we've created a Netflix style version of Looks like this. And this is the homepage of the actual, you know, of the actual. Of steal our winners or will be. Right. And so every Single segment that we've ever created, which right now there are 180. Each one has been edited. There's a preview for it, right? Shows like, what, you know, this is five easy optimizations to increase your high ticket funnels performance by 38%. Right. And then in here it talks about like the time it would take and et cetera. And so there's ones on podcasts, there's on every single thing that we talk about, right? And so, and this allows us to build like products on the fly, right, Just by creating new collections of these. And when someone first comes to this page, right, there'll be some kind of bribe offer. Maybe it's one of the. They can pick any of the strategies once they tell us, you know, their, you know, a couple questions, like, you know, their email address and all that kind of stuff. But then also potentially like, what, what they do. Are they an entrepreneur, an agency owner, a media buyer or something like that, who their three favorite gurus are, what their three biggest challenges are. And then that homepage will never look the same again. Like it'll immediately switch to the gurus they follow and you know, the problems that they're trying to solve. And then once we start having intelligence, right, like agency owners that have this problem tend to like this video the most. And then they generally watch this next video or they start with this video and they cancel that and then they go to this video. So like we'll have all that intelligence. And so when you recognize that every interaction like on a website or anywhere else, there's two components to it. There's the opportunity to leverage all the information that you have up until that very moment to like serve whatever and then whatever action that person takes is new data to update. Like all the data that you already have. So everything is a test, every even single action. And the system is constantly learning. And so like the overall endpoint is that this is what I see as. So this is where like for me, getting excited about impact and like, because I believe that there have been a couple of attempts to make these kinds of sites, but they've been course based. And I think that totally defeats the whole purpose because if you go to.

Netflix of the world and yeah, if.

You go to Netflix and every movie is 10 hours, yeah, how often you go into Netflix. Like, what we have to recognize is, is that once, like I had this one person recently come up to me after I had given a presentation at Traffic and Funnels, which is a, you know, an information company, and I was speaking at Their mastermind. And there was a guest there who came over to me and said, like, is Steal our Winners for me? Like, I'm brand new. And I said, well, that really depends. He said, what does that depend on? And I said, well, let's say you wanted to put a webinar in your business. If you don't know anything about webinars, you're not going to learn it all from Steal Our Winners. You need a course. And a course will walk you through everything you need to know about how to put a webinar in your business and what you want to focus on and all those things. But once you have that webinar in your business and you want it to do better now, where are you going? Because if you go to a course, 90% will be overlap. The tactics will be a couple of years old at the minimum, right? Versus would you like to know what the top 10 webinar experts out there are doing right now, like today to make their webinars work and the strategies that they found most effective to get people to register, to get people to show up, to get people to stay on, to get people to buy on it. Like, if you want to know those, which will be completely worthless if you don't, like, have a webinar. But like, but, you know, so it's, it's one or the other, right? Like, and at first you need a course, but like, in most areas of expertise, most people do not want to just consistently go through courses. So I've begun to see a move towards this. Like, no one in our industry has moved towards this. But in the medical profession, there's sites now of doctors and different surgeons sharing different strategies for different surgeries, like how they do different things and they're short little videos. And this doesn't exist in any, like, so this is to me, like the introduction of a new way of, like, delivering content and therefore also changes the game of the business model and everything else. So I think it's an add thing of mine. But, like, you know, if everyone's going this way, I want to go that way, even if this way is easier. Like, I'm going to. I, like, I just want to do things differently. And so when I get the opportunity to do something different, that I think is right, and then that is what gets me super juiced. It gets me excited. It gives me the opportunity to make a dent in the universe, no matter how small that little dent is.

Well, I mean, I think that's, it's, pardon my language, fucking genius because I agree. I go down the Udemy kind of hole when I'm looking for something. I mean, I joined Masterminds for that exact experience myself. Because I just need an answer now about something I'm doing now. I don't want to watch three hours of some guy talking in 2019 about something that doesn't, like, apply anymore. So I think, you know, I definitely, obviously, you know, everybody listening knows that you're ahead of the curve for so much. So, I mean, this is, you know, I'm definitely, you know, I love already the content that I saw. So I'm sure this is going to. This is going to kill it. Hope you found today's session valuable. If you have any questions for me or just want to connect, please feel free to Visit my website, mariasperagas.com that's M A R I A S P A R a G I s dot com. I'd love to hear what you're working on. So drop me a line on any hot button issues your business is experiencing. And remember, don't worry about failure. You only have to be right once.