3 Things To Learn From Dating That Will Make You A Better Recruiter
Richard Milligan compares dating to recruiting, arguing that treating it as a transaction kills authenticity while research, genuine interest, and putting candidates first builds real connections. He shares tactics like thorough candidate research, short intro calls, and consistent affirmation to boost engagement and retention.
Chapters
Hey everybody, it's Richard Milligan here with Four C Recruiting. We're about to kick off another podcast and, um, changing up our setup a little, a little bit. I'm wearing a, a wireless headset today, um, using some new microphone equipment in here. Our sound is actually improving on the podcast. I'm excited about that. We're learning and we're growing like we should all be on this journey to do. And so Today, it's kind of a humorous topic. We are going to talk about how recruiting and dating are very similar. And I think there's some value in this. It's hilarious. It's humorous. But I think that there's a lot of similarities between the two, recruiting and dating. And I think when we don't connect the two and we treat recruiting like selling something, then that becomes an issue. It becomes problematic because people don't see us as an authentic recruiting leader. That has these altruistic motives in mind. And that'll actually hurt your brand. That'll actually hurt your opportunities, hurt allowing people no tension and moving towards you. So we are going to talk about how recruiting and dating are very similar. We're going to go live to our audio here now. So hang tight for just a second while we get— while I get that set up. It's literally clicking a mouse, but I'm going to click the mouse in 3 and then 2 and 1. Hey everybody, it's your host Richard Milligan. You're back with another Recruiting Conversations. I don't know, this is episode something. I can't even remember what the number is anymore. I think it's like episode 35, 36. I don't know. Now you're confused because now when you listen to 36, if this is 35, you're like, which one am I on? Which one's coming next? Don't worry about it. If you're subscribed to us, On iTunes, if you're subscribed to us in Google Play or Spotify, and we added another platform this week. I can't even remember what it's called, but there's so many platforms today that you have to be on that people listen to their music on or people listen to their podcasts on. We're always adding those additional places when we realize they are places of value that people can find us. And so we added another new platform this week. But I'm coming to you with a rather humorous topic around recruiting. And this comes up from time to time in these conversations that I have in my coaching. And the idea is this, is that recruiting is very similar to dating. Now, stay with me here. I think you'll connect the dots on this in just a second. But one of the things I know about dating— now, look, I've been married for going on 21 years, so I still remember what it was like to date, however, and I dated, I think, for 2 years. So it's been like 23, 24 years since I've dated. That's crazy. That is just crazy sauce right there. But I know that when I go back, I look at dating like dating was kind of crazy. Like dating involves sorting through crazy people to get to the qualified few. Yes. And that's, that's one way that dating is just like recruiting, right? It's like, like, like the things that happen in recruiting It's kind of like being— like, I'm 46. It'd be like dating at the age of 46, right? It's like there's just— there's some things that are just nuts about it, right? People don't respond the way that they would normally respond. You know, people ghost you. People ask you all kinds of weird and crazy questions. You know, one of the things I know about dating is that dating requires everything of you. It just does. And I know a lot of people have just grown weary of dating because it's just too hard, right? Recruiting is very similar. I always say this. I think the recruiting leader has the most difficult job in the world. I say that with a lot of empathy. I mean, I sat in that role for 15 years almost inside one industry, sat in that position for almost 5 years in another industry. And one of the things that I know is that it's just difficult. It's difficult juggling the leadership piece because you already have a current team in place. And all of the things that go into keeping that team in the place you want to keep them, where you're serving them well, you're leading them well, you're providing something that's substantial to them so that they can accomplish their dreams and their goals. Man, it just takes a special person to be a recruiting leader. It takes a special person to be a recruiter in addition to being, you know, a recruiting leader. So I know that it's very similar to dating because dating is hard, dating is crazy, dating requires a lot of you. But here's, here's some perspective on this. A lot of people think of recruiting like selling. Now, I spent a lot of time in a career as a salesperson, and so I've been through training with like SPIN selling. I've read a lot of, if not most, sales books out there. And one of the things I struggle with as a recruiting leader is actually not trying to sell someone something. That's actually very difficult to move away from because, look, I got to grow my team. I've got to increase my numbers, whether that's volume or units or contracts or whatever metric it is that you're growing. If you're in sales, you're really hyper-focused on that. And there's this transition that I think all great recruiting leaders go through where they move from being a salesperson to being a relationship builder. And that's where I think that recruiting is like dating. I think if you'll see recruiting like dating, it'll give you a better perspective on recruiting. And let me just give you some of the reasons why this is true. Think about all the moving parts for someone when you're recruiting them. Like, I've moved from one company to another company prior to having my own company. And one of the things that I know is just even in a conversation with my wife around changing companies, the things that came up were, are we going to have to change our primary care physician? Are we going to have to change the kid's pediatrician because the insurance is different? Are we gonna have to start over with a new copay? What's the new dates of our paychecks? Is the prior company going to actually pay me the money that I think that I'm owed? I'm changing platforms as a salesperson. And so I'm gonna move from one platform that I know and one support team that I know. I'm gonna move towards another platform that I may not know, and I'm gonna move towards another support team that I do not know. And so there's just, I mean, that's just a couple of like big things that you evaluate and the list goes on. We start to like, evaluate all the moving parts for someone, you recruit them into your organization, you're really asking for wholesale change. And so, it is a lot like dating because in dating, you're dating someone— like when Leigh and I were dating, we got 3 to 4 months into dating and we were both pretty convinced this is going to turn into this forever and ever till death do us part thing. And so, like, there's a lot of energy and effort that goes into that next part of really getting to know each other and really trying to figure out what does the happily ever after look like. So I think that most people in recruiting have some sort of fantasy about, like, going on a first date, proposing, and then riding off into the sunset. And that's just not the way recruiting works. So we can't treat it like that. Because we are asking for people to make really large changes in their life and so we need to treat it more like dating. In reality, here's what it really looked like for Leigh and I when we were dating. I'm not proud to say this, but Leigh and I actually met in a bar. There you have it. For any of you that are young enough that you're like, I don't have my forever and ever till death do us part person, and you're actually going to bars. on a regular basis and your mom and dad are saying, you know, you can't find the right person in a bar. Well, what I know is that you can actually find 2 very lost people trying to get found in a bar. And that was, that was Leigh and I. And so, you know, first interactions are obviously like there's synergy there. Like, she's a beautiful girl. I'm an extremely attractive dude. Nah, I'm just— that's supposed to be funny. But, you know, you, you have this short exchange where it's like, hey, I like you. I'd like to get your phone number. And then you follow a progression. It isn't— you imagine the person that was like, hey, I'm just going to skip over this first part and the second part and this third part, this fourth part. I just want to get straight to this conversation of like, hey, can we get married? And it's like, hey, that's really weird. And for those of you that have happened— that had that happen on your first date, I just want to say I'm sorry. Because That had to have sucked for you to have been put in that situation because that's just weird. It's awkward because dating really follows kind of a progression. Like, get your phone number, I call you, right? Have a short conversation or a 30-minute conversation with you and then we set up an actual date. This is what Leigh and I did. We went on a date. We left the date. Date went well and I said, hey, can I call you again and can we go out again? And so, you have a second date and a third date and a fourth date. And then way down the line, conversation's getting better, we're getting to know each other, that leads to something else. Maybe you say, I love you. All of these things take place when you're dating. So I think the best recruiters really look at recruiting like that. So if you follow my progression, here's one of the things that you know is that we do a lot of research. So I don't ever blindly call someone. So if you're in the mortgage industry, Mobility RE is a— Great tool that you can use to actually do research and know the volume and units of the person that you're actually going to call, know who they're doing business with. I can see the list of real estate agents that you've actually done loans with. That's great information that leads into a better conversation. So I'm going to do a lot of research, and then when I call you, I'm going to have my phone script memorized. I mean, memorized, memorized. When I call you with my phone script, It's going to sound so authentic and so conversational that even when you object, you're not— you're gonna have a very difficult time saying no to me. Okay, so my phone script says something along the lines of, I've done a bunch of research on you, and in my research, I see a lot of similarities between your core values and my core values. And because of that, I'm reaching out to you understanding that in this industry, most people transition on average every 2 to 3 years. And one of the things that I know is that if something happens, a trigger event happens where you are, And you decide to leave, you'll probably have a short list of leaders that you know and you trust, and you'll pick up the phone and call them. And so with that said, one of the things that I would like to do is just get to know you, not to try and recruit you in this moment, but to try and make the short list of leaders that you would call and say, hey, things are changing over here, can we have a conversation? And I realized that the only way I get to that short list of leaders you'd be willing to call is to try and build a relationship with you. So that's what I'm doing. I'm calling you today to say, hey, no recruiting allowed. But I would like to get to know you and I would like to find out if we've got similar value systems. And then if down the road things change, you know how to reach me. That's a great phone script. What I found is that about 30 to 40% of people that use that phone script on or something along those lines of that would actually say yes to that. And you have to start dating with that first date or with that first conversation. Okay? So we set that up to something bigger. Now, if you're more in a regional role and you're listening to this, one of the things I would encourage you to do is set up that first meeting in like a 10 to 15 minute phone call. That makes a lot more sense than actually taking an entire day out of your schedule to go and get with somebody. Go spend 10 to 15 minutes on the phone. And so my ask in that phone script is going to be this. Look, I've got 10 to 15 minutes now to talk to you, but I realize I'm calling you in the middle of your day. So I'm happy to schedule it for later this week, but I would love to snag 10 to 15 minutes just to get to know you. Would you be willing to say yes to that? I'm available on Thursday afternoon. What's your schedule look like? That phone script works really well. Okay, what am I doing? I'm actually just setting up the next thing, the next thing that seems like a natural progression in dating. And then what I'm going to do is that 10 to 15 minute phone call, it's going to be great energy. I'm going to find out everything I need to know about you. I'm going to leave you wanting more. And so I'm going to say, look, I promise to keep this to 10 to 15 minutes. We're up, our time's up right now. I would love to get together with you face to face. Now, I'm going to pause there and say, you're going to already know whether you want to get face-to-face with this person or not. So we're not always going to get face-to-face with somebody. But what we will do is we will, if we sense that there is alignment, that we've got some similar values, that we're going in the same direction, like it's someone that I'm 50/50 minimally now that I know I would love to have you on my team, then I'll actually say, Look, I think a great next step would be for us to grab lunch and just to continue conversation. Again, no recruiting allowed. Okay? No talking about marriage allowed. Right? Yes or yes? If you're recruiting, you're nodding your head right now because that's what you should be doing. But it's not what the entire market does. Okay, let me tell you what the entire market does. They literally act like they're trying to get married on the first date, and that's just awkward. And it creates tension unnecessarily, and you miss out on opportunities because that's how you recruit. So natural progression is like the normal phone conversation I hear, or the normal phone scripting I hear is, are you open to a better opportunity? And to that I say, bleh. I just threw up on the mic because that is just awful. What you're doing is you're really forcing yourself into a very small segment of the market to try and appeal to those who are unhappy and already looking for another opportunity, and that's a small part of the market. If you're a recruiting leader and you're recruiting successful people that already have a book of business, that already have these referral partners, places that they're getting business from, these people aren't walking around looking for their next opportunity typically. It doesn't mean that you don't run into those situations, but for the most part, my data, the data that I see says that close to 95% of those people that we're after, they're good where they're at. You call them, they'll say things like, I'm not interested. I'm happy where I'm at. I'm not making a change anytime soon. Those are all the things that they will say. So you trying to show up and throw up your better opportunity on them does nothing to progress you towards the finish line. So it's an awful way to try and recruit because it diminishes the results that you have. It diminishes the results that you have in terms of the number of people that you can put into your process and in your pipeline to build relationship. Okay, and so that's what we want to focus on is getting those people in a process of building a relationship with me because here's what I believe. I think that great leaders, they have this intangible thing that a lot of people want to be, that a lot of people want to align with. They have this thing, the it factor, where if you were to meet with someone and you were to present them your it factor— now let me just pause and go, you may be going, What's the it factor? And what I would say is that the it factor is you're clear on your vision, you're clear on where you're going. Clarity, clarity, clarity. That's important. And the other part is what's your value system? What do you believe? What are your core convictions? And if you don't know those, you probably don't have the it factor. So work on your it factor. But if you have the it factor and then you can storytell those— and if you're wondering what I'm talking about right now and you're lost, go back to a prior podcast that I did on storytelling. Well, I talk a lot about that. But if you have that it factor, if I put you in front of people in large numbers, you are going to win in large numbers at scale. I really believe that. And so our process is better when we invite people into a conversation that's a non-recruiting conversation because I remove the tension. If I'm the needy guy that wants to get married on the first date, nobody wants to date me. If I'm the guy that is not needy but is most interested in pursuing you, okay, that's a key component to dating. We pursue. Let me just add a tagline to that, with integrity. We pursue with integrity. You know how many people pursue with a lack of integrity? Look, I've been in the business world now for 21 years in some form of like outside sales. Or leadership role from the time that I was— I'm 46 now, so 21 years ago, what is that? I was in my 20s when I got into some form of leadership role. What I know is that a lot of people are just trying to sell something, and when they try to sell something, there's a huge lack of integrity. I've gone to organizations that sold me on something and then within the first couple of weeks realized that they were pivoting and everything they sold me on, they already knew they were going to change. And they changed that, and my income was reduced by 60% in literally the first few months that I was with them. Like, that's a lack of integrity. So when we date someone, we pursue with integrity. If the end result is the forever and ever till death do us part, well, if you lack integrity, I can already point to where this is going to go. This is not going to end well. Like, this person is not going to stay loyal. They're going to feel like you lack a core value system, they'll move away from you. And they might stay for a year, 2 years, or 3 years. But early on, what we know that data says is that it's 68% of people say that they determine whether a company's a good fit in the first 12 months. So, if you don't honor the things that you say you're going to do, guess what? They will stay, but they've already determined that they will leave. So, when we date, yes, we pursue, we pursue, we pursue. And that's an important part of that. When you date, here's another thing that you do. You are overly affirming. Now, let me just pause there for all you dudes out there that are married. How we date is really how we should be married. Now, this isn't a podcast on marriage, but don't get me started. If you want a place to start, go check out The 40-Day Love Dare. That's an unbelievable book. It's kind of a rhythm for me. I try to go through that one time per year. Because it kind of pulls me center and it says like, what is this all about? What is relationship and marriage all about? Right? It's about leading my heart, not following my heart. It's about, you know, walking in a covenant, not a contract. It's, it's a great book, by the way. If you are newly married or not even newly married and never read that book, The 40-Day Love Dare is a phenomenal challenge to take. And I would encourage you to do it. But I digress, or did I digress? I'm not sure if I, if digression would be the right word to use there, but When we're dating, we're overly affirming. Okay? Now, the lesson to be learned here is this. The most successful recruiters that I've spent time with, guess what they are? Overly affirming. So, I recently had just a— it was a 30-minute— someone got on my calendar for 30 minutes to pick my brain. They're not a coaching client of mine. And by the way, I do regularly do that if I've got time available, give people time to give them input or advice. And this wonderful lady got on my calendar and immediately I could tell, like, she's a successful recruiter. And the reason why is because she was overly affirming. It was like a natural gifting of hers. And I think this does come more naturally to others. But one of the things I know that when we date we do is that we're overly complimentary. We go out of our way to affirm the individual. And affirmation is one of the top 3 forms of motivation for human beings. Belonging, affirming, and then meaning. Those are the top 3 ways that we are actually motivated as human beings. And so, to be overly affirming is something that we typically do and it comes naturally to us when we date. But then some things happen when you get married and a lot of times we stop doing that. And so, a lesson here for leaders just in all of this, if you're listening to it, I do think there's an intersection where leading and recruiting overlaps. I think that The best leaders are the best recruiters. Like, when you bring someone into your organization, like, don't just affirm them while you're recruiting them. Affirm them while they're inside your leadership, because that's actually how you retain people. You can't just be a great recruiter. You got to be a great retainer of people. Now, great leaders, just— it's something that they do. They're life-giving in the way that they affirm people, in the way that they encourage and inspire people. So being overly affirming is definitely something that happens when we date, and it's something that you need to do when you're recruiting. Here's another one. When you're dating, we tend to put other people's interests before ourselves. Now, if you're not married right now, I'm giving you some phenomenal dating tips, and you can just, you can say thanks and drop me a line like, that's awesome. One day when you get married, you can say, Look, I learned it from a recruiting podcast. I should be pursuing with integrity. I should be overly affirming, and I should be putting the other person's interests before myself. Those things are all true of what we should be doing on the recruiting side. A lot of people— I had this conversation earlier today, which is one of the reasons why this is coming up in a podcast. Someone was actually asking me this question, what do you think about this sales funnel? Would be the best way to describe it. What do you think about the sales funnel that I'm creating? And one of the things that I said was, your sales funnel is simply predicated on your best interest. And what they were doing was they were creating all this company-centric content, which was centered around all the awesome things that they do as an organization. And they were going to, in essence, try to sell that in their sales funnel that they were going to push out on LinkedIn, Facebook, as their as their, what I would call, their recruiting blueprint. And in that, what I said was, is that that content's relative, but it's only relative after you've brought high value to someone. So you kind of think of a sales funnel. You've got top of the funnel content, middle of the funnel content, and bottom of the funnel content. And a lot of times the bottom of the funnel content is what is about the company, about the organization. It's more specific now as to the opportunity. Top of the funnel, the middle of the funnel content is value-oriented. It's not what does your opportunity look like. It's not the toolbox your company has to offer. It is your— top of the funnel content is bringing things to your market that allow people to improve, that allow people to grow, that give people insights to improve their business, to improve their lives, to execute on these 3 things so that they can go get more business or develop more relationships. That's what I believe is top-of-the-funnel content. And this person was actually pushing content that was, come join our organization. That's putting their interest before the interest of the other person. And so, in dating, dating done best is putting the other person before yourself, being selfless. Right. And so one of the things that I know is true about recruiting is this, and I teach this in my system, is how are we going to give value? How are we going to create a value equation? So for example, my value equation is this podcast, right? I deliver daily content on LinkedIn. I write articles on about a biweekly basis that gives you content on LinkedIn that you can actually go apply whether you're a coaching client or not. You can go apply my content and go grow yourself as a recruiter, right? YouTube channel, Vimeo channel. There's lots of ways that I bring value and all of that is focused on you, my audience. It's not focused on me. I'm not here going— my podcast is not, sign up for my coaching. Here's what I can offer you. That's not what this is. And so you've got to look at— I look at this like I'm dating you. At some point, maybe a trigger event will happen. You'll say, I need a coach. Need another resource, or, or is an organization needing a recruiting strategist or a consultant? And Richard's our guy because Richard's actually given us value. So you treat recruiting like dating in this area, and then you put other people's interests before yourself. So you give and you give and you give with no strings attached in that. And when you do it that way, what happens is that people will actually reciprocate. It's like Brian Tracy had a law back in the 1980s called the Law of Reciprocity. And I think we've lost sight of that. Human behavior has not changed one bit. You follow Gary Vee, Gary Vee calls it something different. He calls it jab, jab, jab, right hook. But it's value, value, value, and then you actually can ask for something. But it's no different than— I think it was Robert Cialdini wrote a book Called The Power of Influence in the, in the 1980s. And the context of everything that I just said was true 30, 40 years ago, just as it's true today. We haven't changed a bit. So, when we put other people's best interests before our own best interests, guess what? People are likely to respond in kind. People are likely to reciprocate. And all of that is aligned with dating. Okay. So, here's what I'm going to leave you with. The best recruiters are ones that put other people's best interest in front of themselves. And it's not just— now, I can say the best recruiters, I can say the best recruiting leader. So, recruiter/leader. The best leader does the same thing. Right? So when the dating's over and you have that person in the till death do us part piece of this, that's when the real work begins, just like it does in a marriage, right? All the fun, fancy, highlight reel stuff is now over. Now the real work begins. And I'll leave you with this. I once saw a study, and in the study they were analyzing Why do marriages not work? Like, why do people get divorced? And I was blown away by the number 2 reason why people get divorced. So I think most people know number 1 reason is because of financial difficulties, financial disagreements, right? We're going through a hard time financially, someone doesn't manage money well, there's a lack of money, or whatever the money issue is. Most people that get divorced, that's the number 1 issue. But the number 2 issue that I saw in the survey was this: couples that got divorced that were surveyed said that they got divorced as a second primary reason because they stopped dreaming together. I pause there for dramatic effect. As leaders, recruiting and leading is a lot like dating and marriage. When we stop dreaming with our people, we really leave our people available to anybody else to recruit. One of the most powerful questions you as a leader can ask, or you as a recruiter can ask while you're recruiting, is, what is something dreamy that you'd like to accomplish the next 5 years? I'll give that to you again. As a leader or as a recruiter, no matter whether you've already got someone on your team or whether you're trying to get someone on your team, one of the most powerful questions you can ask is around this dream concept. What is something dreamy you would like to accomplish in the next 5 years? And then you lend an ear and you listen. And if you can help that person accomplish that dream that they have, which by the way, no one's ever asked them. Okay, 46 years old, started my first corporate job when I was 19. You work the math. 27 years in business. I think that that's right. If I mapped that out, got fingers and toes out. 27 years in business. Never had a single leader ask me, what's your dream? How can I help you accomplish it? The person that asked that on the recruiting side and the leader that asked that to their team is the one that not only has success recruiting, but is the one that has success retaining when they actually Help that individual accomplish it. So we use a little humor at the beginning. Yes, recruiting is like dating. We're getting really serious here at the end. Let me tell you this. Over the next couple of weeks, we've teed up some phenomenal podcasts for you that I want to invite you to come back to. Over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be sharing my content creation box. Now, those of you that know anything about me, you know that I post regularly. In a number of different platforms: Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram. I post more, more, I post 3 times a day approximately, sometimes more on LinkedIn. And so, I actually have a system around how I create content that I think is very valuable to anybody who's in the recruiting leader role. And you have to be delivering content today. Your leadership brand is closely connected to the successes that you're going to have on the recruiting side. So, I'm going to share my content creation box. And if you watch my YouTube channel, you'll know I'll have a video. I'll actually show you the content creation box and what's in it. So, that will be over the next couple weeks. Another thing is this. Look, here we are into mid-October. The end of 2019 is coming quickly. Look, and here's how I know. It was like 30-some degrees in Oklahoma where I reside last week. And I was just like, this is too fast. We can't skip. The week before is like 100 degrees. We skip right into the 30s. I'm like, this is too fast. I need fall. Year-end's coming. That tells me that the year-end is coming. We've got to be planning for 2020. Now, I love the fact that that number, 2020, is the upcoming year. 2020 vision. There's just too many things that you can use that number for. So planning for 2020 should already be beginning. And we'll discuss a process the next couple of weeks, which is a very simple recruiting process that I take the people that I coach through. I call it my DORAG process. I love to use simple acronyms or things that are very memorable. But DORAG, D-O-R-A-G, I'll teach you my very simple process for planning and how you can actually begin to look into 2020 and begin to assess what do you want to accomplish, where do you want to go, what does it look like in that first quarter coming up. So I'll be sharing that also over the next couple of weeks. So, with that said, thanks for listening. I enjoyed my time talking to myself today, and I appreciate you tuning in. So, until we talk again on the next Recruiting Conversations, thanks so much for listening to this, and I look forward to seeing you again or talking to you again on the next podcast. Have a great week, everybody. There you have it. Took me a second to actually exit out of my podcast. I'm still here, everybody. Like up here? I'm not, but I am like just right here. Thanks for tuning in this week. Recruiting is like dating, and I encourage you to start thinking about it like that. So many tangible things here from the dating side that you can apply to your recruiting efforts. And so as Nike says, just do it. Have a great week, everybody. Until I see you again here on the next video, all the best to you and do rag. Do rag. And what was the other one? Content creation box. Do grab a content creation box. We're gonna talk about this the next couple weeks. That'll be huge value for you. So come back, see you again here on my Vimeo channel, on my YouTube channel. Looking forward to it already. Talk to you then. See ya.
