Recruiting While Understanding Your "Why" Transforms Your Results - Richard Milligan - 4C Recruiting

Everybody, it's your host, Richard Milligan, with another Recruiting Conversation podcast. Welcome back. And today's a big day. It's the first day. Like, we all have these cool beginnings in life where big things happen. And I— it's my first day officially as a grandfather, which is crazy. Because in my mind, I'm way too young to be a Papa or a Pops or whatever the name is that they end up coming up with for me. But today is that day. And in the background, you hear someone laughing, and the person you hear laughing is the voice of someone that's new to the podcast. To this point, it has only been me, myself, and I, and I've been responsible for providing the entertainment value. And today is no longer just on me. Today you have a co-host, and the co-host is Our chief strategy officer at Four C Recruiting. His name is James Dutton, and ladies and gentlemen, I give you James. James, welcome to the podcast.

Yes, sir. It's good to be here. It's an honor to be here. Especially we've been trying to figure out if we're going to call Richard grandfather, grandpa, pops. What's pops?

I think pops is the name. Like yeah, I've got a lot of gray hair, but there's just there's a part of my brain that's broken will always be a kid.

And I can't we take this to an instant. I think we might need to let the people decide on this one.

I can't. No, I've got to be oblivious to growing old. But holding that little baby last night actually made me feel young all over. I was like, I remember this, like 6 pounds, 10 ounces. Like, I remember when they were little. It was just a quick season. They're big, you know? But yeah, it's cool. Today's a cool day. I'm glad to have you on the podcast. You're, just so that people know, your role is going to be really guiding the conversations, participating also, and bringing some value from your experiences. But you're involved, you've— any conversations that I'm involved in, you're hearing, you're involved in those conversations, you have value to bring. And I've been around you enough to know you have a ton of value to bring this audience as it relates specific to leadership. There's this intersection where leading and recruiting overlap. We talked about it on the podcast. And that intersection is a critical intersection because great leaders are great recruiters. And a lot of people are highly focused on becoming a great recruiter first, but I can teach you everything around recruiting, and if you whiff on the leading part, it's a very short-lived window where you'll have success because you can't retain your people.

So true. Absolutely. And the one thing we're going to be talking about today, um, is we're going to be understanding our why. And I've had the opportunity and the honor of sitting under your voice quite a lot and hearing you unpack to different individuals who you've sat with, coached and unpack this idea too. And especially, I think it's kind of— I wouldn't say ironic, serendipitous that you just had your first grandchild. And one of the last conversations I heard you talk about the why, you talked about a grandfather passing away and you talked about his life and what you experienced at a funeral. And we can get into that a little bit later, but I'm just excited for your listeners to hear your take on why, because I think not enough people, they understand the what, they understand the how, they understand the who, but there's not this intrinsic motivator that they can pinpoint, articulate, or communicate very well, even to themselves, about why they're getting out of bed in the morning, why they're doing what they're doing, why they're investing money or time or resources in a particular place. And so I don't think your listeners know how excited they should be to hear you unpack this idea. But yeah, I mean, one thing, hey, how many all-nighters did you have in 2017? Can I start with that?

Well, that's a good place to start because this was probably 3 months ago. I was in a conversation with a mega producer. This guy is the 1/10 of the 1%ers in the industry that he's in. And I was coaching him. I was in like the 3rd coaching session with him. And we were really working on identifying his core values, really coming, formulating the vision for the next decade and identifying his why. And as we're having this conversation, organically, he just pauses and he says, can I ask you a question? I was like, sure. His question was, what do you do when you can't find motivation? And immediately, I knew when someone says that, when you can't find motivation, You have really established a low bar for why you're doing what you're doing. And it primarily, almost always in these conversations, revolves around money. And essentially, this guy had recently gotten a 7-figure sign-on bonus to leave one company, go to another company, is making over 7 figures a year in the role that he's in, has a ton of money. I think most people think money is would identify money as their primary motivator. Here you have someone at the peak of what most people would think was his career. And I knew why I was asking that question. What do you do when you can't find motivation? And the way the conversation went was he admitted in a conversation with me is that money has only been his motivator. And for the last year, or even one of the major reasons why he left one company and went to another company is because he was seeking, seeking energy, seeking a way to motivate himself to become more. do more. And that's problematic for those people that don't have big whys. And I've been in 2 seasons. I spent a big season in my career early on. I was primarily motivated by money. I was motivated by success. You know, I get to 2007. So in 2007, I was 34 years old. I'd been in the corporate world from the beginning. I went to 6 months of college, left college. I couldn't handle classroom learning and begin my journey of self-learning through following guys like Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, Brian Tracy, Les Brown, and then having success in my career. But I get to 2007, had the first major loss in my career, and I can't figure my way out of it. I'm frozen. I'm literally in bed in those moments, unsure I'm going to get my feet out of— Wow. Out of the covers and onto the floor. I'm that unmotivated, and that was a season for me where my why became very clear. And I don't know that you have to go to a place where you're losing everything financially and you're in facing the worst failure of your life to come to that conclusion, but that's what it took for me. And so I think it's really important for people to identify this because being a recruiting leader, if you're listening to this podcast, you're most likely a recruiting leader. We say this internally, and you and I have had conversations around this a lot, which is that we believe that the recruiting leader has the most difficult job inside any organization. And it's because they're a professional juggler. They've got 15 to 17 balls in the air at all times.

Right.

If someone said, put all of your real roles and responsibilities into a checklist, they wouldn't be able to have 3 to 5 people probably encompass what they're actually doing. And then we say you're also a recruiter. One of your primary roles and responsibilities, and depending on the organization, that can be up to 6— as much as 60% of your role is recruiting. That's a role in itself. And so it's a very difficult job. You are going to get to these places where you're stuck. Why am I doing this? And if you're not clear on this, you will move away from this because it'll be too hard.

That's excellent. I think that's a great starting point. What have been some practical ways that you have kept your why in front of you or identified your why? And then I believe you talked about a document that you keep on your desk where you keep your specific whys for your life, your family, your organization directly in front of you. And so I guess what would be great is is for us to help us understand a little bit how you identified your whys and then how you kept those in front of you.

So I do— there's 19 daily affirmations that I do. I do them at the top of the morning. How I start my day when I get up is I start with those daily affirmations. And 2 of the first 3 revolve around my big whys. The first 3 are, I am priority my whys. Jesus is first in my life. I exist to serve and to glorify him. Number one, I'm not playing for what's here on earth. I'm playing for eternity. That's a big part of my why. So what it does is takes the focus off of the 80 years. If I'm blessed, I get 80, 85 years here on earth. And it focuses on the things that I'm doing. Will they last into eternity? That's number one. I start there. Number 2, that I love my wife and I will lay down my life to serve her. My second big why, right? That I want that relationship to identify a big part of why I'm doing what I'm doing. And so that allows me to not think about money, not think about this immediate short-term win, but think on bigger things like, will Leigh and I be married for 50 years when I'm 80 years old? And what will my family legacy look like? And that takes me to my third affirmation, which is that my children will love God and they will serve him with their whole hearts, that I will equip and empower them to do more for his kingdom than they can imagine. And that's my third part. And so there you have it. Immediately, those are my big 3 that allow me to keep them focused every single day. I come back to them over and over and over again. Now, the second part that you referenced is a wide document that I have, which is an organizational document here why we do what we do. And we've— and I— and in the beginning when I started 4C in 2017, I sat down and just said, why will we do this? And some of the things in that document are that, you know, relate to how we believe leaders create a butterfly effect, that a leader impacts someone underneath their care, that impacts a child, that impacts a spouse, that impacts the community. Right. And so when we impact a leader, one change can change everything. We believe that. And that's a big part of our why. So we'll fight for, you know, some hard things in coaching, some hard things in growing this business because our larger vision is to impact 10,000 recruiting leaders by the year 2027 in one year. And so we'll fight for those things because we know that when we do that, that there's a ripple effect that takes place. So those are— another part of that is I have an app called Think Up. This would be the last part of this. And if I was to play that app here on the podcast, what you would hear is that I've recorded that, why we do what we do, which is a decent-sized document inside ThinkUp. And every single day I listen to myself say why we do what we do. Go back to 2017, why would I invest? Probably, I didn't count them exactly, but it was somewhere between probably 12 and 20 all-nighters. in 2017 to get this company jumpstarted because I was very clear on why I was doing it. I wasn't doing it for me. I was doing it for other people. That's a key part of it.

Yeah. I'm glad you said that because I didn't want everyone to miss that, that if you go back through your first 3 and then the vision for your company, it's others-centric. And I feel like that's such an important thing to emphasize because Some of the most affluent, wealthy, influential individuals that I know are some of the most hollow, unmotivated, unsatisfied, and unfulfilled individuals because their why, if they even had the time to identify it, has been about them, have been self-aggrandization, putting together wealth or estates or titles or board chairs or impact, and ultimately reflect their legacy, not for their children, not for their wives, not for their family name, not for their children's children, Which is what I've heard you say many times, that a wise man leaves inheritance to his children's children. It's talking about legacy. And there's something that— there's almost like, there's almost like a piece of motivation that can't be tapped into. I don't know if this is God's economy or the way he set this up, but there's almost a piece of internal motivator that you can't tap into when it's just about you. There's something that's deeper, richer, more fuller than that comes from identifying motivations that are centered around how you benefit and impact those around you. And you went multiple levels. You went your family, you went your community, and then you went eternal, right? And so there's a way to look at your framework of life, which is what you're illustrating, what I'm hearing, where it's your why is not just about amassing wealth for the sake of amassing wealth for your individual person, but in fact, you have a duty You have a calling, you have a purpose, and the why behind that is your residue, your impact on the individuals who have been entrusted to you. There's been— for people who are listening, some of you are a father, a mother, a son, a daughter, a husband, a wife. And the reality of it is, is that there's somebody in your life who needs what you have to offer. And there is a duty, there is a responsibility, and it comes with great weight that you have to bear. Which turns into a why understanding that there are these people in your life who have been placed there for a reason, on purpose, for a purpose, and your why impacts not just you. It's not about you. And I think the sooner we can get over that, it's not actually about us, about those around us, I think the why becomes a lot easier to identify and apply. But anyways—

I will let me down. I have no problem with letting me down. I have no problem not making the date on a project. I have no problem eating chocolate cake instead of working out, instead of drinking a protein shake and working out. It's like, you know, I will let me down. But when I look in the face of my kids, and you've heard me say this before, is that I'm a first-generation wealth builder. And I say that on purpose. That's an identity that I'm assuming because I come from a place of poverty, generational poverty. I'm breaking that in this generation. That's part of my why, right? It has nothing to do with me. What I hand to my kids when I leave Right? Is part of that legacy piece. And for leaders, you got to get clear here. And this is the only way you do this, James, is by fighting for it. Like, we're drowning in noise today, right? We see— they say we see an average American sees over 5,000 ads. Thank you, social media. If you look inside, every second or third post you're seeing is an ad. My phone from cold calling, you know, bots calling me goes off nonstop. My text messaging goes off nonstop. My LinkedIn messaging goes off nonstop, right? It's like we're drowning in that noise today. A leader cannot get clear on their larger purpose, their intrinsic motivators, okay? By sitting in that space, you have to get out of that space. A leader that I coach, she literally found a location, put 2 leaders on a plane, set them in a cabin in the woods for 3 days because she wanted them to get clear on their vision, wanted them to get clear on their why, wanted them to get clear on their core values.

Wow.

That you have to do some weird, wild things like that because what is normal today is all of this noise that we sat in. Unnormal is getting outside of that and saying, what do I want the end to look like? Right? And that's really it. Go all the way to the end. What do I want it to look like? When people are standing at the microphone at my funeral, what do I want that to look like? And that for me, and you know the story, that has been an impactful moment for me, an epiphany for me, which is that I, you know, about a decade ago, I left a funeral and I was just broken. And it was— I didn't even— I'd never— I take that back. I think maybe once or twice met the individual at the funeral. I was there because I was closely connected to someone who was a family member. And this was an 80-some-year-old grandfather that had died. And people, they did an open mic. Yeah. people, and they asked this large audience, there was, I don't know, 300 or 400 people at this funeral. They asked this large audience, anyone that has a story they want to share with the family or with friends, please get up to the mic. And only a couple of people got up. And the stories they shared were surface stories at best. Like, you know, he loved to cook shotgun biscuits. Like, that was one of the stories.

Wow.

And I just left that I left that funeral and my wife Leah was there with me. I looked at her and I just said, I just feel empty. Like, that's the end? Like, we get to the end, we're 80-some years old, and that's the end? That's our legacy? That's what we leave to people? And I just vowed a decade ago that my funeral would have a line out the door. And I'm living my life in a way that that will take place because— and it's not about me. Right? It's not about— I won't even be there when it happens, but it's a framework, a clear framework that when I'm not here, what does that line look like? And that will motivate me to think beyond like the next dollar that I earn, because a lot of people will do anything to earn the next dollar, to get the next client. You got to think bigger than that. And that is a visionary approach. You know, visionaries, what they do is they look up, they look at the horizon, they look out long distances. Most people are very goal-centered, not future-centered. Think about it in Jesus's terms. Jesus said, I must be about my Father's business. He knew the life that he was living. He'd read the prophecies.

Yeah.

Right? He knew what the life that he was living. He knew the end, what it was going, how it was going to take place. He knew what he was doing was about his Father's business. And so for us as leaders, getting clear on what business we are about, is critical in making the sacrifice that is a cost to us. It's an emotional cost, a time cost, a physical cost, right? We do these things at our own expense for other people, right? That's why Jesus is the great visionary.

When I think— and I think just on that note is that if you look at his life, ultimately, I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't living for him. He was living for everybody around him. And then into eternity, it was the same principle. And so the greatest— literally, the greatest leader in history lived his life to benefit others and those around him. And then his legacy was impact generation after generation into all time. And so one thing I've heard you say multiple times is that you can do anyhow when you're clear on the why. And I know we don't have too much more time left. And so I just wanted to revisit the fact that there's— it's so easy to get bogged down in the how Or the what or the who, but all of those are secondary. All of those are after the fact. And I think there's going to be— I just encourage whoever's listening right now, when you get done, to take a moment. Don't rush into the next thing. Richard was talking about being connected, 5,000 apps. You got 168 characters. You got phone calls, text messages, multiple different notifications popping off. You have technology companies who are a lot smarter than you and wiser than you and more affluent than you who have invested in keeping you distracted. So much information and really, really difficult to identify truth. And so when you get done, I would encourage you to stop and reflect on what's been said here and ask the question, do I know my why? My how is difficult right now, potentially for some of you out there. My how or my what, maybe my who, my relationship. You might have forgotten why I'm doing this job or why I'm in this relationship, and— or you haven't identified in the first place. And so my encouragement to you is to either listen to this again. And then sit in silence but reflect on what's been said here because this, the application of this on a micro and macro level can pivot the entire trajectory of your life and very well should and very well should. But— Yeah,

I think you got to think, you got to have to go against the grain, right? Of what is normal. What's normal? I'm sitting in the noise. I went to Nashville, Tennessee, rented a house on Airbnb with the house backed up to the Cumberland River. On the way to the house, stopped at Staples and picked up a big thick pad of this white sticky whiteboard paper. When I got to that house, I took the photos down. I lined the walls with it. That's a little bit weird. If people would've come in that moment, they'd been like, where's the medicine that Richard was supposed to take? Right? And went through this process. And this process is what's everything that is in my heart that I want to accomplish? I went through that. I just dreamed. I want the future to look like? Who do I want to impact? You know, where do I want to take this business specifically in that season was why I did it, right? And I went all the way to the end and created the framework. What does it look like in the end? And then I began to work back to the beginning. And so, the process was I got everything out because the leaders listening to this podcast have dreams in their heart that no one else has.

Right.

Like your dream is unique to you. And if you don't facilitate that dream, which is going to be hard, right? Like I once heard a great leader say that anything worth having in this life, you will have to fight for it. Your dream, whatever that dream is that's in your heart, is not going to be easy. It will be difficult. The way will be difficult. The obstacle is the way, right? So, you've got to start with this piece. Otherwise, you will never accomplish the dream. And a lot of people start with the dream and say, well, let's set goals to get there. There's not enough motivation. Right. If it's big enough, like 1 year, fine. But this was a 10-year vision, right? I was sitting in a closet at my house with a plan to impact 10,000 leaders specific to recruiting leaders, right? That was going to be hard. I knew it was going to be hard. I had to get real clear on the why. Otherwise, I had no chance at seeing this through. And as leaders, you have no chance, whatever your big thing is, You got no chance at seeing that through if you don't start here, get clear here. You listen to— and part of what teed this up for us here in the last final minutes was a conversation with a couple leaders that I've been coaching. And, um, you want to give them the framework for that, kind of how you saw that conversation?

I mean, I thought it— I mean, I thought it was excellent because it's a conversation that, um, could have been perceived as offensive If, if it wasn't viewed through the eyes of improvement or the eyes of the future. But it started with Richard kind of assessing where they're at and how much time they spend, and specifically this situation, recruiting. And where, if they had to rank their— on a scale of 1 to 10, where did their motivation land? And some were like, they had some reasons and they were good, that there's just the season life wasn't allowing for them to be as committed. And they said, you know, a 3. You know, or I think both of them were a 3 or a 4 and Richard stopped the conversation and it became not about improving them as recruiters. He said, you don't have strong motivators and it sounds like you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing, specifically in recruiting in that area but this is so applicable. What he dove into, principles are applicable and they're timeless, right? So they can be form fit into any given situation if they're based in truth and this is— I think one of the most phenomenal, intrinsic, important foundational truths that anybody could put their hands on. And we move past it because a lot of things are louder and a lot of things are more— and for them, louder was personal production. For them, louder was the numbers at the end of the month that resulted in how much was coming into their bank account. It wasn't investment into a greater why. It wasn't seeds planted for a later harvest. It was, I got to get this done because this is my bottom line. And so, right there, you go back to it. Their motivation was money. And, you could hear almost— it was a decaffeinated recanting of where they are at in life or what was taking place. There was no oomph, there was no go, there was no rev, there was no redline. It was almost the disposition of which is many men is just kind of a shrug living. And, it sounded like kind of just silent desperation in this area. I don't know! But I'm doing it still and not picking on them, just reality of I've been there. I know, Richard, you've been there. There's been many people who have been there and it was very difficult for them to identify and Richard just went into unpacking the framework of end to beginning and understanding your why personally, who you impact, what your future looks like and being able to communicate it and Richard was able— and one thing that they said that was— I thought was interesting, they said you were able to you have incredible recall on that and then regurgitate it on command. How do you do that? And really, Richard said, it was like, well, essentially, I live here. Wise can't be something that it's just a singularity. This can't be something that's one time and it sounds like a good idea. So you write this podcast on a sticky note, put it on your wall and hope that it changes your life. It's not. Richard's talking about retreats. He's talking about removing himself from his normal environment. being intentional about changing his surroundings, making maybe sacrifice in his schedule, sacrifice monetarily. No one was paying him to go put up these white sheets on a cabin wall anywhere. He was doing that of his own volition. I did something similar where I literally was in a time and place where I needed to understand my why. And I went out into the wilderness with a packet, with a case of water and a hammock. Okay? And just hit the reset button because it was difficult with all of the stimuli and all of the input and all of the opinion and all of the— Right? All the things taking place in my life, it was difficult for me to find stasis and my true north. So I had to remove myself. And, and I feel like we've lost the art of solitude and finding the ability to hear, whether— if you're a man or woman of faith, hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit, hearing your own internal dialogue that's not melded with somebody else's, and being able to say, okay, I've been doing this for a long time. Why am I doing this? And what's next? And if I don't—

You know what we've lost? This is what we've lost, James. We've lost desire.

Yeah. So real.

Right? Desire. Like, desire is a— it's an interesting thing because it can take you to great places and dark places, but it drives you there. Right? It literally— desire will drive you there. And when you get clear on why you're doing what you're doing in a larger lifetime framework, right? Desire exists.

Yeah.

And most people, what they don't have is desire. Money will only provide so much desire. It would only provide so much freedom, so much convenience, so much beauty, so much— it'll only provide so much. And then there's an end to that and there has to be more. And so what lacks at the end of money is the ability to motivate yourself, which is desire. And that's why going external versus internal in terms of like me, myself, and I, external, what about my spouse? What about my family? What about my community? I have a, you've seen this, I've got in this desk in front of me, I have a packet of 46 kids that are orphans in Uganda that all have a story. And we as an organization, we support that mission. And that's another part of that why. Why would you work so hard? Why would you sacrifice yourself? Why would desire— and that desire, that desire is a holy desire, right? Not a self-centered desire. And so as leaders, this is something you got to fight for.

Yep.

You got to be intentional about it. It will not come on its own. The timing of this is perfect. This podcast is going to kick off about mid-December. You got the end of the year coming. No better time than to take that window of time between Christmas and New Year's to carve out some space because most businesses slow down in that season to find a moment in time where you can truly take it from what's in your heart and your mind and click a pen and pull out a piece of paper and begin to dream and to begin thinking about the future because something will happen in that space. When you meet yourself in that space, something will happen. And then you have to fight not just for the idea on the piece of paper, but for more clarity, more clarity, refinement of the idea, right? Yes. Why can I say Jesus is first in my life? I exist to serve and glorify him. I love my wife. I'll lay down my life to serve her. My children love God. We'll serve him with their whole hearts. I will nurture, equip, and empower them to do more for his kingdom than they can imagine because I have refined that.

Yeah,

right. It's not on a piece of paper anymore. It's ingrained.

And you fought for it. And you fought for it. Yep. The fight did not end when you wrote it on the paper. Beginning.

That

was the beginning. That was, that was the planting the seed in the ground. That was not the harvest. When you identified it, it was you had to fight for it and you continued to do so and the fruit came later.

That's a good word. That's a good word to end it on. We're, um, I've got a couple seconds here before I gotta jump in another meeting. James, this has been great. It's easier doing this with you. Thank you.

Love to hear that.

You know how hard it is to conjure up a podcast, me, myself, and I, and to bring energy?

I was listening to yours and I was like, He's— this is good, but he's like, yeah, you just need— I think it's just that being able to bounce and then synergize and your thoughts and they sprout off into different— so yeah, I love it.

I agree. Thanks for helping with this. Thanks for bringing value. Can't wait to record the next one, and we will be back soon with another Recruiting Conversations to co-host. Next time I'll still introduce you, but I don't have to introduce you as much. It'll be the Richard and James co-hosting the next podcast.

I can't wait, truly.

Until we see— until we talk to you again or you see this video, we'll see you again on the next podcast. Have a great week, everybody.

Bye-bye.