Want To Increase Your Chance of Recruiting Your Dream Hire? Part 2 of Face to Face Meetings.
In this solo episode of Recruiting Conversations, Richard Milligan expands on the second stage of his four‑stage face‑to‑face meeting framework. He begins by stressing the importance of a preset, non‑recruiting agenda set over the phone, which creates a relationship‑building‑only meeting and protects the conversation from veering into premature sales pitches. The core of stage 2 is uncovering a candidate’s deepest motivators – their “why.” Milligan argues that shallow answers (money, titles, quotas) must be probed deeper to reach the BAM Zone (Belonging, Affirmation, Meaning). He introduces a marketer‑style “one‑thing” focus: the recruiter must convince the candidate that the leader will help them achieve their highest purpose. To surface the true why, he recommends scripted yet flexible questions (the FORD framework) and, when answers are shallow, using personal storytelling to draw the candidate into a deeper narrative. He shares his own 2007 failure story to illustrate how a crisis clarified his own why (family) and how that story can be leveraged to trigger reciprocity and deeper disclosure. Once the candidate’s why is known, Milligan describes constructing an “epiphany bridge” – a concrete, personalized follow‑up (e.g., sending a framed photo of the candidate’s family) that demonstrates the leader’s commitment to helping the candidate achieve that why. He also advises recruiters to apply the same why‑discovery process to their current team members to improve retention. The episode concludes with a call to action: practice the questions, collect the whys, and use storytelling and hyper‑personalized follow‑up to turn the candidate’s aha moment into a hiring decision, setting the stage for the remaining two phases of the meeting process.
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Hey everybody, it's Richard Milligan. Welcome back to another episode of Recruiting Conversations. We're literally recording, uh, 4 of these back to back to back because we're ultimately just covering one major topic here, which is geared around face-to-face meetings. So one of the things that I realized over the years is the importance of going into these face-to-face meetings with a preset agenda. And we establish that preset agenda by setting this up over the phone with a guarantee that if you're willing to meet with us, it will be a non-recruiting conversation, that this will be a relationship-building-only meeting, right? And so what that allows us to do is really set some boundaries around this meeting That when we actually get someone to it, it keeps us from getting off the rails, so to speak, when they begin to ask questions around our company. Because what we're going to say is, look, I promised that if you were to meet with me, I wouldn't talk about my company. I'm not here to try and recruit you. I'm really here to try and build a relationship with you. And that needs to be the real motive. Because truth be told is that you're not going to recruit everybody. You're literally not going to recruit everybody. You're going to recruit the right people to your team. And how do you know if they're the right people unless you engage in a relationship-building type meeting with them? The worst thing you can do is sell someone that you don't want on your team on joining your team because then what are you going to do? You know, it becomes problematic, right? So it really is, it's with integrity and with authenticity that we establish that agenda. When people show up, we're going to honor that agenda. So last week, We talked about, or what would, what will be last week's episode, which is really ultimately the same day because I'm cutting them all together. But in the last episode, episode 48, what we did was talked about the first stage in relationship, which is relationship building, right? That's what's in this first stage of our face-to-face meeting. Now we're going to talk about the second stage of that, and you're going to want to listen to this one. This is going to give you framework that you probably have never heard before. So we're going to go live in the podcast. Give me a second here to just get myself ready. You ready? In 3, and in 2, and in 1. Hi everybody, welcome back. It's another Recruiting Conversations with your host, Richard Milligan. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you listened to the prior episode, which was episode 48, then you're prepared to talk— to hear me talk about stage 2 of this face-to-face meeting agenda, right? Or the second part of the face-to-face meeting agenda. We really set the stage in our podcast, in our episode 48, where we were talking about the importance of leading into this meeting relationship as a relationship-building meeting and then creating great framework where we're using the acronym FORD to walk through asking scripted questions to get to the unscripted questions. So, if you haven't listened to that, please go do yourself a favor. That's great content. You need to go back and listen to that, to episode 48, in sequence to really get what we're gonna talk about today. Now, if you just show up here and you're like, I refuse to go back to episode 48, you're still gonna get blown away by this because I really think that what I'm gonna share here with you today could be the most important thing in recruiting. I legitimately think that this could be the most important thing in recruiting. And so, so stay tuned as we, as we walk through this and kind of unpack this. The second stage of a face-to-face meeting. Let me just tell you my journey to this. I think one of the biggest motivators— let's just say this. I think the largest motivator on the planet, this thing that allows us to walk through brick walls, that allows us to get through these incredibly difficult seasons, is having clarity around our purpose, having clarity around our calling, having clarity around why we do what we do. So if you're sitting here today, I just challenge you, ask yourself, what's my why? Like, what's my larger calling? What's my purpose in being here? If you can't answer that, then you need to be able to answer that. Because look, life is hard, right? A wise man once said, anything worth having in this life, you will have to fight for it. When I look at my own life, One of the things I'm very aware of is that anything that I have today at this ripe old age of 46— I don't feel old, by the way. I feel like I'm like, for whatever reason, I'm functioning at the highest level I've ever functioned at the age of 46. For those of you that think that 46 is old, you have something to look forward to because you can connect the dots in so many things so quickly that if I could have connected the dots in these things when I was 30, and I was pretty immature at 30, so let's just be honest about that, that I could have accomplished so much more. But one of the things I know in this journey to get to the age of 46 is that anything that I have today that's worth having has come through the lens of perseverance. Perseverance is the 12-letter dirty word. I don't know, don't tell me to persevere. Tell me that success is coming quickly. Tell me that I've gotten one step away from slaying the dragon, from doing something really big. But the truth is that Anything that I have in this life, I have had to persevere. I've had to do the right thing again and again and again for a long season to actually get to the place where I wanted the results that I wanted, to get to the place where I had the results that I wanted. So, this question around what is your largest motivator, like what is your calling, what is your purpose, what is your why, it's an important piece that you as a leader have to get clarity on. If this face-to-face meeting is going to be the face-to-face meeting that you need to convince someone that you are the leader of choice in the market that they're in. So let me give you some unique framework around this. Look, I look to marketers and look, marketers are just, they're always figuring out these creative ways to get to the endgame, which is like, you know, for a marketer, the endgame is getting you and me, the consumer, to buy their product, right? So here's how marketers start any campaign. They really start out with one larger principle. And the larger principle is this: what do we have to convince the consumer of in order to get the consumer to buy our product? But not just that, what is the one thing? Like, think about it. They can't— if you had to convince us of 10 things, that would be like, you know, a 30-minute infomercial if they had to convince us of one thing. Most advertisers have a minute or less to convince us Of buying their product, right? That's how long our— the commercial is, or how long our attention span is, that they have to actually get us to a place where we buy the product. So let's just talk about a couple of products, right? I'm a huge fan of FiberFix. And if you haven't seen some of FiberFix's really creative commercials, you should go check them out because they're actually extremely entertaining. But the one thing with FiberFix that they're trying to convince us of is that it will hold anything. And if they can convince us that it can hold anything, it can hold the frame of a car together, it can hold the broken shovel handle together, it can hold anything together, then if they convince me of that and I have something that's broken that needs to be fixed, then I have to buy FiberFix, right? Like Gillette shavers, right? What are they trying to— what's the one thing? That it's the closest shave. If I want the closest shave, if I've got a razor that's actually not giving me a close shave, then I'm going to buy a Gillette because Gillette's convincing me that they have the closest shave. I laugh at You know, these commercials like the OxiClean commercials, because they really are more in an infomercial style. But OxiClean has the one thing too, right? The one thing with OxiClean is that they're trying to convince us that if we have a stain in our carpet, we have to buy OxiClean. Kool-Aid stain, wine stain, whatever it is. If you have that, you have to buy the product, right? If we take that context and we place it over recruiting, then we come to this place where we're saying, What is the one thing that we have to convince our recruit of in order to get them to join our team? Now, I make that statement, and let me just say this before I go any further. If we're going to make this statement, let this come from a place where you as an authentic leader really truly have a desire to help people accomplish that. Okay? That's really our goal here. We want to equip great leaders To build teams, right? That's what we're all about because we believe that when we help a great leader build their team, that we have larger influence. We're going beyond the walls of their office because when great leaders impact people, it goes beyond the walls of their office. It impacts the spouse, it impacts the child, it impacts other family members, friends, community, right? And so, that's a— look, I want this to help the authentic leader that in their heart of hearts would say that, I will help you accomplish your largest motivator. I think that's what great leaders do. They say, what can I do to serve you? What can I do to help you get where you want to get? So, inside this framework, we would make this statement that as a recruiting leader, if I can convince you that me above all other leaders in this market will help you accomplish what motivates you most, what is your larger why, then ultimately, if I can convince you of that, I think Game's over. It no longer becomes a matter of if you're gonna join my team, it simply becomes a matter of when. Now, there's some other pieces. You better be good at your follow-up. But in this face-to-face meeting, if I get this from you and you leave that meeting— if I get this, meaning if I get your why from you and you leave this meeting clear that me as a leader will help you accomplish that, then man, I have a lot of momentum. So the second stage in this face-to-face meeting is gonna be getting the why for the individual that I'm trying to recruit, right? And so it's a pretty simple question, like, what motivates you most? What is your why? Okay, what do you want most right now? It's a powerful question that can sometimes get a very shallow answer. Look, I think in this season that we're in, someone like a Simon Sinek who wrote a book on why has done a great job of helping people understand even what that framework means. I think we go back a decade ago, if you'd have tried to ask that question to most people, most people wouldn't have been able to answer it. But I think today we're moving to a place where a lot of people are clear on this. But, big but, When you ask this question, if the response that you get from someone is a shallow answer, then you're going to have to work to get a better answer. So let me give you an example of this. If I said, what's your largest motivator? What's your why? And you said, I want to make $250,000 this year. That's a pretty shallow why. If you say, I want to make President's Club, or I want to do 200 transactions, or I want to hit X amount of volume, All of those are pretty shallow whys. I need a better why. I need something deeper than that because ultimately if I settle for that answer then I have to recruit you through the lens of whatever that is. I have to recruit you through the lens of money, maybe stuff or success, prestige, title, whatever that is and I don't want to get stuck there. Yeah, I can recruit a lot of people in that place if I can help them accomplish that But ultimately, I think as human beings, there's larger drivers than being a success story, than making more money, than having a better house, than having that awesome car that's on my list. There's more to it. We talked about this last week. I ultimately think that when you get to the root of people, people want to work with people they love, doing what they love while making a greater difference. If you've listened to one of my other podcasts, you'll hear me reference a part of that in what I call the BAM Zone. That BAM zone is this: people desire to belong. That's the B, belonging. People love to be affirmed. It's the 2nd highest motivator on planet Earth. And then people want to have larger meaning in what they do. The paycheck, what it does is it gives me some— it's a low-level motivator. Yeah, right? It makes me feel safe. It makes me feel secure. I feel protected and provided for. Those things are important, but that's the lowest form of human motivation. If those things are in place, then there's higher purpose, there's higher calling, there's higher meaning that I need in order to ultimately feel fulfilled. So, what do we do when we get a shallow why? Here's what we do. I'll give you an example of this in my own story. I would take people back to a place in my own story. Now, in my story, 2007, I've been in specifically the mortgage industry at that time for about 5 years. 2007 rolls around, and for those of you that are in the mortgage industry or even real estate or even in insurance, some of the surrounding industries of that, you kind of know where I'm going with this. Like, 2007 was the beginning of about a 24-month window, if not longer, of a lot of pain that came at that industry. I'm 5 years in, and I think I've got it all figured out. And I say, I think I got it all figured out, and this is the most success I've ever had in business. I'm at a place where I'm signing multiple leases on retail square footage, doing 5-year leases with build-outs included in them. Like, I really think I've got this figured out. I'm doing a direct mail model where I could tell you down to the percentage point how many people were going to call into the office. I could tell you down to the percentage point of how many people were going to get qualified. I could tell you down to the number of days that we were going to actually get them closed. 2007 rolls around, we've got about 50 people that are about to go to closing, and bam, it happens. Overnight, it happens. The entire business model was built on something that wasn't sustainable, and I didn't know enough to know that. So you find yourself in parts of your career where you're like, you don't know what you don't know until you know it. And in that moment when I knew it, it was too late. So I find myself getting into mid-2007, and man, my business model's broken. I have no idea how to figure this out. At the time, I was very compartmentalized in the type of transactions that I had done. I really didn't fully understand the industry, and I recognized that I was going to have to recreate myself. Not only recreate myself, but I was going to have to go through a painful window where I'm letting go employees, Where I'm shutting down offices, where I'm having an impossible time making my finances make ends meet. And so, I can almost in this moment transport myself back to where I'm lying in bed at night and I'm saying, there's nothing to live for tomorrow. Like, literally, there's nothing to live for tomorrow. In those moments, I was able to connect with being 19 years of age. Right. This is 12 years ago, so around 12 years ago, 12, 13 years ago. It's hard to think it's been 12 to 13 years, but it's been 12 to 13 years since this took place. So at the time, I'm in my early 30s, right? I'm about 15 years removed from having left a home where we were extremely poor, right? We defined poverty, right? We ate saltine crackers and powdered milk for breakfast. We got evicted from homes. I had shoes that had holes in them. I wore them to school. We always had hand-me-downs from cousins, which was awesome and a blessing. But when I left home at the age of 19, I made a decision. I said this to myself, okay? I said that I will never go back to that. My family will never live like that. That was like a line in the sand at the age of 19. And I was so tenacious and so driven simply because I said, I will never live like that. I get to the age of like, In my early 30s, and I'm looking at failure square in the face. At this time, Ethan's 5, who's now 17. Gavin's a newborn, who's now 12. Leigh and I have been married for about 8 years. And in these moments, I'm realizing, like, I said I was never going to get here, and I feel like I am here. And I'm having a difficult time getting out of bed in the morning just to face what was going to be another difficult day full of difficult conversations. And in those moments, what happened for me was I got ultimate clarity on what motivates me most. Having a newborn, a 5-year-old, and a wife of 8 years, I got out of bed in the mornings for them. I didn't do it for me. I had hard conversations for them. I didn't do it for me. I recreated myself for them. I didn't do it for me. So I would share that story with people, okay, where I got a shallow why. And then I would make this statement. I would make this statement. If you found yourself in that similar position, Like, what would be the biggest motivators for you? What would be the drivers for you? And I would allow people to respond to that. Now, here's what happens in that situation. So hopefully, maybe you haven't failed. Maybe you're the 33-year-old version of Richard that hasn't had any success, any serious failures. And if that's true, then please borrow my story. You can say, I know this guy by the name of Richard and he had a miserable failure. Let me tell you a story on when he got clarity on his why. You can borrow my story, okay? But here's what happens. As human beings, and I just already know this right now, this audience that's listening to this, you already have a story. As I'm telling my story, my story is connecting to one of your stories. As human beings, immediately story connects to other stories. As I shared this story when I was recruiting with people, it would connect to their story. And what they would do was they would feel inclined to reciprocate. And that's powerful. That's extremely powerful. That's how we get to know each other. Is like I share an authentic, real story, right? It takes you back to the beginning. That's important framework. It gives conflict and struggle. That's important framework. And then it takes you to a place where I am right now. It's all of that's framework for great storytelling. In that moment, you feel inclined to share your story as well. Okay, this is how you build real relationship. But ultimately what I'm after here is I want a better version of your why. So with the recruit, if someone were to respond to that, Okay, I would always get a better answer. So this is really, really, really important. Here's why. Because when I leave and I know your why, I will pursue you forever through the lens of your why. I'll literally pursue you forever through the lens of that. Tell me it's your family, Milligan, and I'll do some awesome and incredible things to convince you that I'm all about helping you accomplish more moments with your family. So I'll give you an example of this. 6 months into recruiting somebody that gave me context like what I would give you, because I would say my family's my highest priority. I put my family in front of my business. And so then, you know, beyond that, what I would do if I was pursuing myself is 6 months into this, I'd go to my Facebook page. I'd find that awesome vacation picture with me and my 4 kids and my wife. And I would do something as hard as right-clicking and dropping it as a JPEG on my desktop. I would then upload it to a framing website. For $40, I'd buy a cool frame and I would send it to you. And I would send it to you with a note. And the note would sound something along the lines of, Richard, in the time I've gotten to know you, your family is something that's a priority for you. And I saw this photo and because of that, I just had to send it to you. I wanted to let you know this, that if we ever had the chance to partner, I'd be all about helping you accomplish more moments like this. Mic drop. That's powerful. You're pursuing me, or hypothetically, I'm pursuing myself. So let's be real. But if you do this, you're pursuing the people that you want on your team through the lens of what matters to them most, what's most important to them. This is how you build the epiphany bridge. The epiphany bridge is that aha moment. That bridge has to cover I'm happy over here and you're trying to get me to your team over here and there's this big gap in between. How do you get someone from being over here where they're happy to your team over here? It's you build that bridge. You help them have the aha moment. That aha moment is that this is a leader who will help me accomplish what matters to me. And when they have that moment, when they have that epiphany, then they're ready to join your team. So, okay, this is the second part of 4 pieces. This is powerful framework. Look, and here's what will come from this. You can't ask someone that is not on your team for their why and then bring them into your environment where you don't know everybody else's whys. So, a starting point for you after listening to this podcast is you go to your team. You go to your team that's currently underneath your leadership right now and you ask this question. And you do it like I did. The way I did it was, I don't currently know what motivates you, and you've been on my team for 2 years, and that's keeping me awake at night. And I would love to know this: what are your biggest motivators? What do you want to accomplish while you're here? What's something dreamy that you are looking out 3 to 5 years from now and you're saying, this is something that's important to me? And you start asking those questions. And when you start asking those questions, not only do you become a better recruiter, But you become a better retainer of the current talent that you have. So, that's episode 2 of 4 around these 4 stages, these 4 pieces to face-to-face meetings. Come back. Episode 3, episode 4 are going to be just as powerful as this one. I'm looking forward to sharing this with you. I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback on these, that you're applying these, and the interactions and the engagement and the responses that you're going to get from people. And please, if you need to borrow a story of failure, borrow my story of failure, okay? If you can't come up with your own, if you don't have your own. But my hunch is that most of you have your own stories and you're going to be able to share those stories. As I shared my story, here's the last takeaway. You got to become a better storyteller. How you tell that story, the power with which you tell that story matters. Okay. 50,000-foot view will not get you to Helping someone having their aha moment. You need to go granular on this. You need to give them concrete details, right? You go very deep on these stories when you're sharing with someone. And by doing that, what you will do is help other people understand the framework that you're presenting to them, which is what is it motivates you most? What is your why? What matters to you most? And when you get that, you become a very powerful recruiter. Okay. So thanks so much for tuning in to another Recruiting Conversations. We will be back soon. With what will be episode 50. Oh my goodness, I'm just realizing this. Episode 50. Like, isn't that like the silver anniversary? I don't know if you see me on video. You see I got a lot of silver hair. I don't even think it's gray. I think it's silver. That's pretty cool. We've made we're gonna make it to 50, and with this with this podcast, thanks so much for tuning in. And so we'll see you again on the next time as we talk about the. 4 stages of face-to-face meetings. Have a great week, everybody. There you have it. There's another episode to Recruiting Conversations. I'm gonna quickly transition out of this. We're gonna get into the next one. Piece these together, okay? We're into 2 stages of 4 stages. How should you be handling your face-to-face meetings? How should you be presenting to the people that you're recruiting to? And the next one will be just as powerful as this one, so look forward to seeing you again. On the next Recruiting Conversations. Have a great week. Thank you.
