Building Resilient Families Through Strengths-Based Strategies

be your authentic self, well then the implication is that you're not being authentic.

Yes, yes.

And so then if the starting point is I'm not good enough or I need to do something different, yes, you know, because I'm not being authentic, and maybe that's not the intention, but that's what it can create. And then we can go on this journey to find out What, what it is to be authentic, or trying to do things to be authentic. And it might be mimicking what other people are doing, or showing that they're doing, uh, and under the, just under the label of authentic. Or I might see someone do something and I, I think, well, that's how I interpret being authentic.

Hello and welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness Decisions and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. When faced with adversity, do you find yourself crumbling We are all presented with diverse challenges in life. There's no getting around it. The key to this is learning how to become aware of our thoughts, responses, and our ability to navigate complexities of change and diversity. Rosemary Gattuso is a professional in alternate dispute resolution and restorative justice practices. She is committed to a strength-based approach using neuroscience, helping people find resolution and renewal. Hi, Rosemary. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rita. Thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this conversation.

Yeah, so have I, because, you know, strength-based approach is, I think, I'm not sure, correct me, is it a relatively new term or new way of doing things?

I don't know much about the history, but it's definitely, it's something that I was introduced to when I first started mediating, which is about 14 years ago. Um, and it just, it was something that provided an alternate way of viewing life and viewing ourselves that just made, made sense and made, uh, it just made me feel lighter and also helped me to see my own strengths and the strengths in, in the people who I work with.

Which, when I read your bio and all of your achievements, It's kind of hard to believe that at some point you lacked confidence and self-esteem.

You know, I take that as a compliment for sure. And, and it is. And I think sometimes self-esteem is something that can be disguised. It can be disguised by the many layers of our achievements and what we strive for and, and, and how we look or how we present ourselves. But then there's always that, I guess, the way that we view ourselves and the way that we speak to ourselves and our overthinking, our self-talk and the quality of that conversation we're having with ourselves and how we view ourselves. That really is the difference between someone who might seem confident and very secure, but deep down is maybe You know, doing things because that's what they believe they have to do, or they, uh, well, might help build their confidence. You know, there's so much in that.

Absolutely. And you know what, let's dive deeper into that one a little bit further on, because I would just like to start with, you know, you approach adversity through the lens of this strength-based approach. But for someone who is struggling with, say, a— like, this podcast is about health, so say an unfavorable health diagnosis or prognosis or they have depression, what does that actually look like for them? You know, that strength-based approach.

Yeah, and I guess for me working as a family mediator, I saw the difference in using the strength-based approach or not using the strength-based approach in my clients in terms of people's ability to overcome adversity. And I mean, in my work example, it's specific to relationship breakdown. But I believe it's quite similar in the way that we handle adversity full stop, whether or not it's a diagnosis or breakdown or in a work situation, whatever the case may be. And what I noticed is that those who had a tendency to have more of a strengths-based approach with themselves and others, were— seemed to have a smoother recovery in terms of getting through that personal challenge. They were— they overcame their challenge rather than being overcome by it.

So in kind of like layman's terms, are we talking about people who are naturally a little bit more positive-focused than doom-and-gloom-focused? Because it's kind of like You can see that in different personalities. Someone can tend to always focus on the doom and gloom of a situation, or someone else can look at the positive, I can. Is that what you're meaning by that?

Essentially, yes. That's what it comes down to. And using the strengths-based approach, that theory classifies— has 2 categories to classify things. One is what's wrong, and the other is what's strong. So, if we're able to have a lens that views life through the what's strong approach, then that we have a— what I notice with my clients is that we are more likely to overcome adversity in a much smoother and quicker process and be able to have a future focus. Whereas when we're not being strength-based, it's harder to envisage a future and then make decisions about that. And it can be easier to just stay stuck in what happened and what went wrong and what's been done to me in that situation. And it's also not about staying in that positivity mode the whole time. It's about acknowledging the times that we haven't, because that's where the personal growth is and the building our resilience. be able to say, well, actually, I didn't, you know, I was quite hard on myself and I, you know, really stayed stuck in a situation. What can I learn from that? You know, how can I use this example for the future? And so I think it's more about that because that's where that's where we can grow. And, and it's, you know, I notice in myself that sometimes being strengths-based or not being strengths-based isn't as easy as it seems because, and it's not as obvious as well.

Mm-hmm.

Because it might be just about getting into, um, judgment mode, criticism mode, getting dwelling on past situations, who did what, you know, And and it can happen almost subconsciously, and sometimes we we've we've been taught that way. Yes, you know, and I know you know in one sort of very simple, and it's you know a topic that's quite separate from what we're talking about is you know I noticed the first trip that I took overseas. You know my parents were like, be careful. You know, don't trust anyone, make sure you do this, do this, don't go out too late, don't take drinks from people. And it was all doom and gloom. And I had another friend whose parents were from the same, you know, cultural background and way of thinking. And he said to me, wouldn't it be great if we could just go on holidays and our parents would say, have a great time? You know, just a very sort of, you know, maybe funny thing.

I really totally relate to what you're saying because I have parents from the same cultural background, and it is all about what not to do. It's never about, oh, do this and enjoy yourself, you know. Like, I know when I was there, it was like, don't take a drink from someone unless they've opened it in front of you, don't do that, which is all good advice, but then it goes on and on. It's like, where is that cutoff point? Like you're saying with the doom and gloom, I think what really could possibly drive people into the, uh, depression is where do you stop it?

Yeah.

Like, where do people stop it? Like, you can do the doom and gloom, but at some point you've got to stop. You can't just keep living in the doom and gloom. And what I got from what you was just saying is, you know, we can get stuck in our story. You know, we get stuck in— we all have a story. You know, there's no judgment here. We all have a story. And even people who say, I don't have a story, that's not true. We all have a story that we—

Well, that's their story. They don't have a story.

Yes, that's their story, you know. And it's about not— it's learning, I guess, with what this strength base is sort of saying, is don't be stuck in your story, learn from what you've done. And also, I wanted to bring up the part about positivity that you were talking about, and it's that over-positivity, you know. And it now seems to be a lot of this— people identifying this false positivity. So like to be falsely positive, well, can you move forward with false positivity? Because you're never going to look at the areas of where you need to grow if you're always in this, oh, I'm so positive, you know.

Yeah.

What would you say to people who are stuck in that kind of—

I think sometimes, um, it can be— it's, it's not sustainable because We have bad days and things don't go as planned or as we sort of hope they would. So it can set us up for failure.

Yes.

Because we're trying to be positive, but we can't even do that, or it doesn't feel right because it's almost sometimes trying to stay in that mode is like going against, um, going against the tide, or, you know, it's It feels hard. And when it feels hard, that's a clue that there's a learning opportunity from this. There's something that's happening, or if it's, you know, even when we have repeat sort of situations. But again, I think there is this tendency to, especially with social media, I don't wanna, I don't know, any sort of pressure.

I know we had a discussion about that.

Because we see a lot of that. You've got to be positive. You can do this. You can manifest this. You can, you know, it's all about the quality of your thoughts. And I get that. And there's a lot in that, but it's not that simple because if it was, everyone would be able to do it and it wouldn't feel so hard.

And it wouldn't feel so false.

Yeah.

See, I find there's a twofold. The people are bombarded on how to be, you know, like it's almost like, you know, vulnerability. We were talking about that before.

Yes.

Just be vulnerable. You know, it's not like that. That's, you know, just be vulnerable can be really dangerous as well.

Yeah.

You know, because you're being vulnerable with people that may not be able to hold the space for you correctly.

Yeah.

But also, you know, um, to live a life of confidence, you know, authenticity and resilience, we have to look at the many layers of self that we've created.

Yes.

So what kind of strategies, from what we were just talking about then to these 3 things of confidence, authenticity, and resilience, what sort of practical strategies do you use to nurture these qualities for a stronger sense of self, like a true sense of self?

Well, when I talk about the sense of self, I break that down as how much we believe in ourselves. And so there are going to be times when, and even areas in our life where we believe in ourselves more, and then there are other parts where we believe in ourselves less. And what influences how much we believe in ourselves are interactions. And they are interactions that we have with ourselves about that subject and interactions we have with others also about that subject. And they can either focus on what's wrong or what's strong. So when any of these interactions focus on what's strong, they build on our sense of self and our ability to believe in ourselves. When the interactions focus on what's wrong, makes it harder for us to believe in ourselves and can take away from our sense of self. So for us then to say, well, what's in my control? What can I do to help strengthen my sense of self? Then it would be any interaction that we have with ourselves. And when I say interaction, it could be a practice that we do daily. It could be our overthinking or, or, or the quality of our thoughts. So that it goes from being overthinking to more reflective and opportunity for growth. So then it's about instead of perhaps beating ourselves up for making a mistake, we see that as a learning opportunity. And we may still beat ourselves up for a period of time about it, but then we have the strength to then say, okay, it happened. I'm ashamed or I'm embarrassed or whatever happened, but I can learn from it. And that's where the gold is. And for me, part one of the sort of really basic practices that I have is to have a to-do list. Because I have a to-do list and I write down exactly what I want to get done for that day. And when I, you know, at the end of the day, I'll go through and I tick it off and it makes me feel good. It's less about the list, but how accomplished I feel. So that's just a small sort of practice that I can do because it is, it's an interaction with myself and it's focusing on what's, what's strong. And even if I don't get through everything, I just set it aside for the next day and do it, you know, when I, when I can. So that's one small practice. So it's really any interaction or practice that I can have with myself that focuses on my strengths or what's strong in me. that's something that is going to help build the sense of self. And because when we do have a solid sense of self, we're able to believe in ourselves more, we become more resilient. So when we are faced with a diagnosis or some kind of personal challenge, then we're already going to be more resilient to manage it. And then it's also going to be easier for us to learn from the mistakes rather than beat ourselves up. Because we're already at that stage where we believe in ourselves. And the, the last point about why the sense of self is important is, and how we can build it up, is that when we do have a strong sense of self, then it's— we, we are less affected by the opinions of others. So that when, you know, because how many times do we have a goal or a dream or something that we want to do We tell a few people and they tell us why it's not going to work.

Absolutely.

You know, and so that happens all the time, and that's fine, but it's a matter of how much weight we give it. And when we believe in ourselves, we are able to give less weight to that.

Yes. Yeah, that, that makes sense, because especially for the opinion seekers, you know, they always need confirmation, you know, like, and then they If they're not strong within themselves, well, then the other person's opinion, like you're saying, has a lot more weight, and they usually will go with that person's opinion or whatever they think they should be doing instead of what you should be doing.

Yes.

And I suppose that's what we talk about with the authentic side and coming to that authenticity, which is another bit of a buzzword.

Yes.

That we were talking about before, which I'm really curious about because You know, this just, you know, be, be your authentic self. You know, I've been asked so many times by people, like, what does that even mean to be your authentic self? Most people go around thinking, well, I thought I was.

Yeah.

You know, what do they mean by just do it? It's confusing. And I think it's also adding a layer— maybe I'm not sure if shame would be the right word to say here. But sometimes people with their sense of self, they're so far kind of deep into a lack of maybe self-esteem or sense of self that to say become authentic, be authentic, they can't even feel who they are.

Mm.

Truly who they are without— who I am, who am I without my mother's opinion of I should be like this, or my dad saying I have to act like that, or my partner putting this pressure on me? You know, they've absorbed everybody else's opinions in life that they haven't actually become who they want to be. And then you're told, become your authentic self. Can you speak into that a little bit? What's your opinion about that?

Well, I think with, um, you know, so if I do something like that, then I'll be authentic. And it's, it's this fine line between, um, chasing an external idea of what it is to be authentic and our own internal, um, self and our authentic self. So it, it can, it can, it can, I guess, um, blur things a bit.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Because if we, if we are— you're right— if we, if we're not, um, if we don't believe in ourselves, our sense of self is a bit weak. Then we're not— we won't trust our authentic self. We're going to look for others and be guided by what other people are doing under the label of authentic.

Absolutely, absolutely. Tell me, Rosemary, how important is language, how we speak to ourselves, in developing a better sense of self? Also for resilience when adversity does come our way?

Well, I guess for me what I notice as a mediator, language is really important because I'm that third independent third party there to help facilitate a conversation and I'm coming from it with a strengths-based lens. So, sometimes for me to reframe what's been said in the mediation through more of a strength-based lens to show, um, to show that, you know, someone has a lot of courage and a lot of strength. And that can shift from the, you know, sort of victimhood that, you know, I've gone through this, I've had to do this, and that— well, actually, it does show strength, it does show courage, it shows tenacity, it shows how important your family is. You know, so it's important with clients, but it's also important for me because I found when I first started working as a mediator, I was working in a strengths-based organization. And it was the first time ever that someone sort of reflected to me my strengths and gave me opportunities and work and clients that really complemented my strengths and skill set. And it had a massive impact on me. And that was really the point in time where my, my sense of self, my confidence, and my ability to believe in myself really shot up because I was in a role that complemented my personality and my characteristics. Previously, I was in law, which was completely opposite and really highlighted my weaknesses, whereas the nature of this job was more in tune with my strengths to start. Then I was in an organization that fed back My manager fed back, my colleagues fed back my strengths to me, and I started to believe it. Um, and then it made it easier as well to be strengths-based with clients because I'd experienced it and I knew it worked. Um, and there's, there's nothing false about it. Yeah, it's not, you know, it's just reframing what's been said or what's happening.

That reframing is a really good term, isn't it?

Yeah.

You know, it's like taking a situation— like you might be in an argument with your spouse, you might, like we said, you might have just got an unfavorable health diagnosis, or you might think, why am I the only one with mental health issues? So in those situations, I guess what you're saying about the reframing and the strengths is, for our listeners, is to maybe pick out in those situations what is it that I can do, what is it that I feel I do well, and focus on those and build on those whilst acknowledging actually what's happening. Instead of— is that, is that the way you would sort of work with your clients?

Yes, definitely. And it's, it's a, it's also like we, we come to a situation with our own narrative. based on how we've been raised, our experience, and, you know, and so often to change that narrative, we need to see evidence why it could be changed, you know, and whether or not that is through a strengths-based practitioner or a friend who, you know, always has the right thing to say, always knows exactly what, you know, has a comforting thing to say. or a practice that inverted, like, will have that sort of impact. It's helping us to see that, yes, there is another story that can exist that shows a different side or a different version of the situation.

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess also for people who are listening to this and think, yeah, well, that's fine, but, you know, I don't know how to do that, or That just seems too far away from where I am at the moment. Would you say that it's just really baby steps, just one step at a time?

Yes, definitely. I mean, like anything, because if we have been in the habit of always going down the path of what's wrong and looking at what's been done to me, what happened, what I can't do, Then to rewrite that narrative is going to take a lot of practice, and it's going to— it might feel unnatural at first.

Yes.

And it might need support from, you know, um, either services or people or books or, you know, even meditation practice or some kind of practice that would— will physically help the structure of the brain to really build up the parts of the brain that are going to make this reflective process easier and, you know, tone down the parts that will go through that reactive side and, you know, that will sort of aid overthinking and that catastrophizing. So it does, it will take time and it's about undoing those habits, learning a new habit and also being easy on yourself in that process because, you know, um, everyone has a different story and a different scenario and a different pace. So even just acknowledging, hey, I'm going down the path of what's wrong again, you know, and even that is enough sometimes, even though we've already done it and we've gone through that overthinking phase. and over-catastrophized or jumped to conclusions or made a negative assumption. We've done it, it's okay, but we've got that awareness and we know. And then maybe next time we won't spend as much time there, or we'll catch ourselves out, or we might consider, well, what would I be thinking about if I was coming more from a strengths-based approach? What is, you know, what's strong, or what are the strengths? And I mean, for me, it's— I use opposites to help label what's happening. So if I've gone into judgment mode, well, that's the what's wrong mode. Well, what would be the opposite would be the what's strong mode. And the opposite, I concluded, is understanding. So are we closer to showing judgment or are we closer to showing understanding? How could I be showing more understanding in this situation? You know, and even, um, the next example I'll give is criticism. Are we being critical of someone? And it's normally critical of ourselves.

Yes.

Because when we are showing criticism, then there's less room for respect. So how can we show more respect? You know, and so that's where I, I use this idea of what's happening and what's not happening as a way to learn. You know, and this idea of opposites.

I love that, opposites, you know, because that really gives you that opportunity to, you know, reflect and see, you know, it puts you into another space, you know. Like, if I'm in this space, what's the opposite space? Well, I could actually— I have a choice to go to that space, you know. So, and it's also, um, what was I going to say? Like, it's like most people say, why don't you learn to respond instead of reacting? You know, but what does that—

what's that mean? What does that look like?

What does that look like? So, so, you know, would you say that, um, interrupting yourself or interrupting those thoughts and to create— like you talked about habits, right? So we want to interrupt these thoughts and create new habits. So what, what are some of the techniques apart from what you were saying about opposites and making a list Is there anything else? Is it like breathwork would help to get you into a particular state? Would— what, what do you do with your clients?

Yeah, I mean, I do like the breathwork. That definitely, uh, helps to be present in that moment. Um, some people find it challenging, at least, uh, to start. So it's about, um, I guess in terms of anything that would come under that sort of mindfulness or, you know, sort of umbrella, those practices are quite good. If you're someone who writes and likes to, you know, reflect and journal, sometimes just writing through, you know, and seeing if it's possible to rewrite from the what's wrong approach, what actually took place to Well, what could have been done differently? And I mean, I've got quite a few reflection tasks in my book that help to build on this idea. How can we flip that what's wrong approach to what's strong? And one, I guess, tool or method that I use draws on my legal background, my previous legal background. Where I noticed that I would make a lot of negative assumptions. And it kind of sort of dawned on me that what I was doing and these thoughts that I was relying on, and it could even be an opinion or gossip, they would not be admissible in court. So, if I was going to court and trying to prove my case, I couldn't use it as evidence. So then I thought, well, why am I relying on these thoughts so much and either taking action to prevent a harm because of this assumption that I've made, or not taking action because of an assumption that I've made, or gossip that I heard, or someone's opinion about something?

Oh, that's good.

So it kind of helped me— let's apply the rules of evidence and not rely so much on thoughts that Can't be— it can't be used as evidence in court. They're inadmissible.

Wow, you know what, I have never heard it like that. That is a fantastic way of actually putting it. If I can't— if you couldn't use it in court and it wouldn't stand up as true, well, why would you use it against yourself?

Yeah.

People don't think like that. No one. I mean, who thinks like that apart from someone who's trained to be a lawyer? So it really is becoming learned and doing reading and connecting with someone like yourself who have the skills and the strategies to help people focus on something else. Which brings me to, you know, I'm sure you'd find also is the importance of empowering people to know that they have a choice.

Yes.

And without—

and that's really important, that empowerment, because it's not about, you know, having an expert say this is what you should do, or going to a counselor or a psychologist, this is what you should do. It's about working it out yourself in a way that you take responsibility and you're learning from it, and it's at your pace and your style. You know, that's, that's, you know, all these sort of practices and ways to help. manage overthinking and transform the what's wrong lens to the what's strong lens. You know, I propose ideas, but it's really up to the individual to then make it their own and see if it works for them. Because, you know, we learn best when we are, when it's self-taught. I mean, I say self-taught, but it's because we've taken on board, we've decided that it's time to do something different, or we're going to try something new. And then we're more likely to follow through and understand it, or keep going until we do get it. And then we feel like, oh wow. And I'll give you a very, um, unrelated example of this. I've got curly hair, and I have— I've been going through a stage where my hair's been unmanageable, and I didn't know what to do or why. And so I found a hairdresser who was offering a workshop and helping people with curly hair know how to manage and learn how to manage their hair and learn what, what, um, you know, what can, you know, hinder and what can enhance, right?

Yeah.

And when I did that, uh, I just felt really empowered. I thought, oh, I know I don't have to go to the hairdresser every time I want to do my— get my hair done. Because she's just taught me techniques to apply and to try and product and ideas and what to do to do it myself. And I realized I can do it myself. I mean, I know it's kind of, you know, superficial example, but I remember actually saying to her in the middle of this sort of workshop, this is very, very empowering because I'm learning that actually I can do it myself. Absolutely.

I think, I think that's not— I don't think it's— I don't think it was superficial at all because I actually got the point across really well in a really relatable and understandable way. Because it is, it's, it's when we finally understand that I have a choice and I am now taking responsibility to change What isn't working for me? Because it's all about responsibility and choices. Or if you've made a choice that hasn't worked so well for you, take ownership and responsibility for it and start changing it. You know, until that— I think, like you were saying, until that process happens and it's clicked in our brain— we know that about weight loss, don't we?

Yeah.

You can't tell anybody to eat healthier and exercise more and not— if they're not If they haven't— what I always say, if they haven't arrived yet.

Yeah, I love that example. Yeah, that's a great example.

Yeah, if you haven't arrived, you're talking to a— I don't want to say it like that, but a brick wall, because they're not there. They haven't made the decision, they haven't made the choice to now to take responsibility to do something different. And that's what we're talking about. What you help with the strength base is about empowering people around that. I would assume.

Yes. Yeah. And sometimes for many, it's, it's quite a new narrative.

It is. It is a very new narrative, isn't it? Because when you look at our society, it's all a bit like, don't take responsibility for your actions. I suppose as a lawyer, you've seen that quite often.

Yes. And it's also, yeah, um, also about You know, everything that's gone wrong as well.

Yes. Yes. So how important is— well, I suppose it would be very important, but I'd just like your take on this is around consistency. It's not going to happen in one go.

No. And we also can help if we are strength-based with ourselves in our growth process because it's going to be unique to our situation and there might be areas of our life where we excel and are able to grow and learn from, uh, quicker than other areas of our lives. And other areas of our lives, we might have repeat sort of patterns of the same scenario because, you know, maybe we, as you said, we haven't arrived.

Yes.

For that specific area.

Yeah.

And to sort of put my work into it, you know, as a mediator, I'm, I'm like the witness. in the room to help facilitate the conversation. And that if we can be our own mediator, particularly with our thoughts, to help sort of facilitate the conversation from a strength-based approach so that it's less about blame and more about taking a step back and seeing what happened and what could it— what could be done differently.

Yes.

And what worked well.

Yeah, absolutely. I feel that that approach would actually give people, especially if they're at the point where they don't feel there's any hope— maybe they don't feel there's any hope around their health, they don't feel there's any hope around their relationship or their, you know, mental health— it would really encourage, I think, lift someone up to know that there is possibility. That if only I just thought about this slightly differently, even just maybe One change, one way of thinking about something for that week or for that month. I really practice to embed that. You know, it— I think it's, it's a fantastic approach. And, uh, yeah.

And sometimes it can also be eye-opening to say, okay, well, this week I'm going to keep note of how many times I do focus on what's wrong in a situation.

Mm-hmm.

You know, because then that can also, um, show us it is the default in, in many cases, or, or maybe it isn't, or maybe, you know, we're being hard on ourselves and, and we are actually being strengths-based in certain areas of our life, and that, that can also be, um, useful information. And, you know, one of the things that I, I, you know, often say is Think about, you know, the question, how are you? You ask someone how they are. Sometimes the response is, oh, no good, I've got these, I've got that. Other times it's positive. So it's just something that's so ingrained in our lives, and that can also be a way to sort of think, oh, how am I responding to others to that question? You know, am I, you know, going straight towards what's going wrong today and telling them, or am I, you know, looking at, oh, you know, it's a beautiful day? And I mean, it's again another superficial example, but it can highlight how ingrained our default sort of lens is in our system.

So would you say that awareness and reflection would be so important here.

Yes, awareness and reflection are key because it doesn't— it's not about being positive the whole time. It's about learning and reflecting and being aware of the times that we don't. And that's where we build growth and resilience.

And leave the criticism at the front door.

Yes. And also, I mean, also acknowledge that we will criticize at some point. It is, you know, but let's not dwell on it and beat ourselves up and say, oh, I've gone, I've done it again. Okay, well, what's the learning and how can that help the next step in your personal growth to help overcome that? Because for some, it's, you know, if you're raised in that environment, um, it's, you know, it's going to take a lot of of work, effort, and resources to undo that and be okay with that.

Yes, absolutely. The— you have shared so much fantastic information today, Rosemary. It has been eye-opening in many ways, and I hope that our listeners really do take on what you're saying about it. You can just start small, just start with the one thought that you've been having today. So what's the number one thing that you would like our listeners and, and watchers to take away from today's discussion?

Yeah, I think the main thing is, um, to— well, it is about awareness and reflection, but we also need to show some self-compassion in that process, you know. And, and that part of that is aided by you know, how can we be the witness to what's happening and not get into judgment mode? Um, but also, let's not be so hard on ourselves because we're not perfect, and this mistake is a learning opportunity. So how can we, we take that on? And, you know, about— it's, you know, about shifting that mistake to learning. And, and also, you know, when we have regret or I shouldn't have, or I should have. What can we learn from that? Because there's always— that shows these sort of thoughts that we have really can show a lot about ourselves, our values and morals, and what's important to us. And, you know, that's a strength that we have. There's strength there.

Yeah, absolutely. Rosemary, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all this information. It is really invaluable to help people to move forward in their life and to kind of drop the story that we've created that may limit us from moving forward. Um, for all our listeners, all of Rosemary's details will be in the show notes, so do reach out to her. And if you could just quickly tell us the title of the book that you've written.

Yep, it's called It's Not You, It's Me: A Chronic Overthinker's Guide to Self-Reflection.

Love it. The link will be in the show notes, so do— if you either get the book or reach out to Rosemary and start today in changing your thinking. Thanks so much.

Thanks, Rita.

I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.