How to cultivate a healthy relationship with food

Today's guest is Melissa Rolfs, health coach and emotional eating expert. Here's what I know about Melissa: when women and teen girls want to cultivate a positive body image and relationship with food, they come to her to uncover the often overlooked emotional reason. Welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Welcome, Melissa. So good to have you here.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, well, God, this is a big— this is a big topic, isn't it? It's a really big topic for so many women. And I think one of the things is so many women hide the fact that they— what that term is coined, like a closet eater. It's so damaging. So as a health coach, can you help women get to the heart— you help them get to the heart of their self-image issues and using food to numb certain emotions that are keeping them back from the life that they desire. So let's start with self-image and the fact that women are bombarded with images of what is socially acceptable, of the way we're meant to look, you know. Social media has so much to answer for there, and especially for the teen girls growing into women, that they carry these images with them. So from your experience, do you find self-image fuels the eating, or is there unresolved emotions there first? What do you find in your practice?

Yeah, I think that's a great question, and I actually think they're connected, um, because I think a lot of times the Perception itself brings up emotions like shame or guilt or not feeling like they're enough or fill in the blank. And so then I think that causes them to eat to try to feel better. So it's kind of this vicious cycle of, I don't like how I look, I don't feel good, I'm going to do what I know to make me feel better, which is turn to food. And so then we're eating for emotional reasons and they just go hand in hand.

Is there an element— as you were speaking, it just came to mind— like, is that— do they use food as a form of control? Like, they could be stressed out, or they're not in a relationship that they're happy with, or they look in the mirror and they don't like it, so they feel most things in their life are a little bit out of control. Is the food, the thing that they can control, even though it may be a negative action and it may be sabotaging what they want. But can you talk about the control a little bit?

Yeah, that is exactly what disordered eating is linked to, is control. Um, a lot of times people who go through anorexia, they feel like they can't control anything, so they're going to control what they don't eat. Um, I think the same thing goes for bulimia. They just go the other end of the spectrum where they're eating too much and binging, and then maybe they'll purge. But it's usually the core of that is a loss of control, and so they're going to control the one thing they can, which is what they eat or don't eat.

Hmm. So when we talk about the core, what— can you give our listeners a little bit of an understanding of the type of emotions we're talking about here? So when we talk about this very core behavior What does that, what does that actually mean? What does it look like for them as well?

Yeah, there's a lot of shame. There's a lot of guilt. Um, there's a lot of insecurity. Um, usually there has been trauma at some point in the history of the client. Um, and definitely for me, and food became something that, that was used to make them feel better or to control again. Um, back to that, but it's usually there's a lot of negative emotions that kind of create this downward spiral that, that doesn't serve anybody, and you don't know how to get out of it. And so you're like, I'm going to do something to kind of make myself feel better, which is turn to the food.

So that definitely sounds like there's such a disconnect. There's such a disconnect, um, from— obviously they, they numb, they numb themselves, they They disconnect from who they are, from their, you know, personality, from their core essence of being, and try and like not think about who they are. Do they know that's what they're doing? This disconnection from self and putting the power into— they're really giving the food the power.

Mm-hmm.

They're removing the power from themselves. And giving it to the food. Do they know that this is happening, and how do you help make them aware of it?

Yeah, they don't know that that's what's happening. And I think a lot of times the women that I work with, they don't realize how disconnected they are. So one of the first things that we'll do is we'll talk about honoring your hunger and fullness, and that's foreign to so many of them. They don't know what it looks like to be hungry. How does their body tell them when they're hungry, and how does their body tell them when they're full? So it's really kind of helping them learn to listen to their body and connect to themselves because we haven't been taught how to do that. We've been taught that we outsource that and we give it to the diet industry and we follow the meal plan and we follow the exercise program and we do whatever is made for the masses and expect it to work for us, and it just doesn't work that way. So it's really helping them learn how to connect to and listen to and honor their bodies in the way that they, they're made and their uniqueness.

Yeah, and it's really true about the shame. There's a lot of shame that comes with it, and shame is Such a deep, deep, powerful emotion that just triggers someone instantly. Like, you can see it sometimes when someone is overeating that I've seen it. They're— it's like their face changes. It's like they just— it's almost like their eyes roll back, you know? And it's like they're just— it's like a possession. They just totally don't want to be who I am. This is too painful. To be— it's too painful to be me. That's a big thing to, to deal with. So how do you specifically help women reframe that negative self-talk and the negative self-image they have when they look at themselves, um, so that they can stop repeating these patterns?

And that's a work in progress. There's a lot of untangling that has to be done because, you know, we've We've done things a certain way for so long and we were raised maybe in a certain environment where that's what was modeled for us. And so it's what we instinctively do. So it's really creating awareness around, okay, when are you doing that? What happened before to kind of trigger you? And really kind of helping them to become more aware of what's behind that behavior. Where does that come from? Why do we do that? And then rechanneling that and creating new neural pathways so that they learn new ways of being. And it's not an overnight thing.

It's not.

a quick fix, but it's a lot of reframing self-talk, reframing what we say when we see ourselves in the mirror, really appreciating what we see, integrating gratitude. There's a lot of different things that, that are a piece of the puzzle because it, it's, it's hard work.

It is hard work. It's like anything. I mean, if we digress even slightly from food, if someone wants to change a particular belief that's not serving them well, you know, in their work or their relationship, it's still the same type of thing. You have to reframe that, which is a lot of work, and people have to be dedicated to it. One of the things I also find is that once we have been working on the emotion, the behavior can still be there. The pattern can— and sometimes that one is actually one of the hardest. Do you find— well, first part to that question is, what do you do specifically so our viewers can understand and maybe they can do a few things, whether it's meditation or journaling, something like that? But also, do you find that there's a lot of frustration and they can relapse because they keep going back to, I've done all this work, I think like this, what's wrong with me? I keep grabbing for that donut, you know, what's wrong? I've done so much work. That repatterning of the behavior still, I think it comes secondary to changing the belief. Can you speak to all of that? I know it's a big question, but—

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if I go off track, please let me know. Yes. But really, the work I do is around habit change. So that's exactly what we do, right? Like, we have to look at the belief and where that belief came from and why we act on that belief the way that we do. And so it's really helping them learn new ways to handle things because a lot of times we develop coping mechanisms that may have served us at one point, but they're not serving us any longer. So it's really kind of helping them identify, this is why I did this, this is who I am now, and this is how I want to go forward. So I think it's— that's a piece of the puzzle. I think the other thing too is helping them to replace judgment with curiosity because a lot of times we are own worst critic. And that's where that shame spiral can kind of come in. So really helping them to become more curious and become a student of themselves is really powerful. Journaling, creating a safe space for them to share whatever's inside, because a lot of times we haven't had that permission or that place to share what we're really thinking or feeling without guilt or shame or judgment. So I think really creating that place for them to go, whether it's in a coaching session, or whether it's through journaling, or however they're doing that, but just giving them permission to get those feelings out is I think that's really important because a lot of times we'll hold on to stuff and that'll just stir up that hamster wheel of, oh, this emotion's there, I'm going to reach for this. So I think it's just helping them learn new ways to handle their feelings and their emotions and give them a voice. I mean, a lot of times too, it's, it's that maybe they haven't felt heard or they haven't felt validated. And so it's giving them permission to use their voice to, to say what they want or they need and, and be able to do that. So. Kind of a few things that go along that line.

I love that because really I think at the core of a lot of emotional upset for people is what you just said— not being heard and not being— but everybody needs to feel validated and that they have something to contribute to the world, their voice, whatever. So I think you're so right. And I think if I can add something there is The ability to stop, pause, respond, don't react. I remember I had a, a ther— uh, well, not a ther— a coach once, and she said, put a glass dome over yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Every time someone's saying something nasty or hurtful, put that glass dome and just see it bouncing off and going back. You know that it doesn't belong to you. So they're really powerful things that someone can do. And I guess getting peace with food and freedom from overeating is about dissolving the struggle that we have with food. There seems to be so much struggle around food these days, you know, between confusion of what to eat. You know, there's so many different diets. I mean, part of this podcast is making helping people become aware of alternative practitioners. But even within that, who do I know is good for me? It goes back to what works for me. And all this bombardment of be vegan, be vegetarian, be keto, be carnivore. Oh my God! How can you not have a struggle with food? So how do you, how do you help them have that positive relationship with food that feels good, that serves them, that you can help move them away from that whole diet trap and understand what food brings them joy, that serves their body well, and just stops that struggle of this is good, that food is bad? You know?

Yeah. And that's exactly what you said. I think that diet trap is so prominent, and it's such a big piece of why women struggle, because they're used to telling— letting somebody else tell them what they need to eat instead of really kind of going within and listening to what foods make them feel good. So we do that for like a whole session. We talk about, I want you to do this energy experiment. I want you to try these foods and see how they make you feel like. It's kind of an intentional food journal, if you will, of, you know, when I ate this, I felt this, and this was the end result. Like, just really to bring awareness of how foods make them feel. Because, you know, there are foods that are labeled out there as superfoods, but if they aren't superfoods for your body, they're not superfoods, regardless of how well they're marketed.

I love that.

If it doesn't work for you and your body, it's not, it's not serving you. So it's really helping them connect with how food makes them feel. And then what they're turning to food for and kind of identifying that piece. Am I eating because I'm hungry? Am I eating because I'm bored? I had a woman I worked with. This was so interesting. She was stressed out and anxious and a little overwhelmed. And in those times, she said, I keep turning to cheese and crackers, and I don't like cheese and crackers. Why do I keep doing that? And so we did some questioning. We did a little digging. And come to find out, when she was a child, all of her family was together. There was lots of peace. There was lots of happiness, the exact opposite emotion of what she was feeling. And there was always cheese and crackers there. So her brain had connected that memory of cheese and crackers with peace and happiness. And so we found other ways for her to create that feeling without the cheese and crackers, with the food that made her feel good. So that's a little bit of how we do that.

I love that because a lot of people wouldn't make that connection. They would go, oh, this food is making me feel bad, or that's the way I was brought up, or whatever. But The connection between cheese and crackers was happy, and that's what she's searching for. She's looking for happiness. So she— and that's the key, isn't it? We look as a society, we tend to look for things to make us happy outside of ourselves. And so food is the big one there. Oh, alcohol. I mean, we're not on to that. That's a whole different episode. That's a whole different episode. But this is about food, and we are always searching outside of us. So it's been your story, it's been your story. So if you can touch on a little bit about your story, what you did, and then we'll move from there.

Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, just real quick, I think the tricky thing with food is we need to survive. We don't need the alcohol, we don't need the drugs, we don't need the cigarettes, but we do need the food. So I think that's where it gets a little confusing. Um, but that's what I did, right? Like, I used food as a little girl I would— I was 8. I was hiding Pop-Tarts, cookies, candies, lots of sugary snacks in my room to try to feel better and, and handle the uncontrollable that was happening around me. Um, and so food very much as a child became my comfort. And it wasn't until after struggling with withholding and then later binging and doing everything, every diet, every program under the sun, and not getting any real results. It wasn't until I started therapy and was diagnosed with PTSD from childhood trauma. And met with a naturopath and really learned about the impact of food on overall health and mood. And that changed everything for me because it wasn't just about weight, it was about my life, it was about my health, it was about my future, it was about my kids' legacy. It wasn't just the weight anymore. So that's the quick story.

And that's so true. It's never about the weight, is it? It's never about, oh, I have to look This size, you know, be this size in my jeans, the weight, or, you know, um, I'm a glutton, or I can't control myself, I've got no willpower. It's never that. It's always a driver. There's something that's driving you to do that. And that's so good about the work that you're doing, helping people get to the actual core of what it is so they can release Or this behavior. So what I would like my listeners to know about your work is what makes you different to the traditional approach of going to a psychologist or going to a dietitian or going to see both. Lots of people have done that and they're still on the hamster wheel. What makes your approach different To them?

Yeah, it's such an interesting question. I have a woman that I worked with, and she had done all of that. And she really struggled with disordered eating. And she came to me and she said, I think that you helped me figure out what was causing it. Like all the other stuff, it was only about the food. It was only about what I was eating and how much and how often. And she goes, what you do is more than just the food. It's like our relationship with food. It's why we go to it. It's what we're really looking for and what we need. And that was never the approach otherwise. And the The psychiatrist was great because she helped her with her trauma and heal from that, but she didn't have the focus on food. So I think she really needed somebody who could help her heal from the past, which was the psychiatrist, and then have me as the coach help her going forward in her relationship with food. So I think that's how how I differ in that.

Lovely! I love it. And that is the whole thing, isn't the whole key is changing our relationship with something, and we also have to change. Our identity and our idea, you know, we have to start stepping back and looking at, am I that person anymore? Like someone, once I start working with you, you know, you tap into the core of what's happening behind it and then work on the action, the habit. The habit change is, I think, one of the biggest keys once you've worked on the emotion. And realize, am I— when you go to grab something, am I really that person anymore? And maybe step back and reflect. I've done that before in different situations where I've gone, I could actually see the old me. I think, oh, I'm actually not that person anymore, but my habit is bringing me back to that person. So that's what you see, the change in your, in your clients. That identity change needs to happen.

100%, and then they show up differently, and they have a different relationship with themselves and food and their bodies and everybody around them. It's a beautiful ripple effect, but it all starts within.

Within absolutely it does. I don't want this just to be like a listening podcast. I really like people to take action because it's the action that gets you like this. It can't be just more.

Mm-hmm.

That goes nowhere. Can you give 3 specific actionable tips that someone who's struggling— and a lot of this doesn't have to be big, you know, like people say, oh, do massive changes, like I've been like this and tomorrow I'm going to be different. That doesn't work, you know. We just need a little step, maybe once a day or once a week. Just something small. What are 3 actionable tips that you can give our listeners of what they can start with now to start making change as they're deciding to come and see you?

I think the first thing is acknowledge that you do have a relationship with food, because this is a maybe a new concept, something that people haven't heard of before. So I think really just acknowledging and creating that awareness around, oh, I do have a relationship with food. And then get curious around that. What is my relationship like with food? What do I use food for? What do I view the purpose of food as? How does food fit into my life? What does that look like? Creating curiosity instead of judgment. And then I think the third thing is stay hydrated, because a lot of times a sugar craving can mimic dehydration. So just make sure that you're hydrated and your body's getting what it needs.

Absolutely. And you know what I love about the relationship with food is that it can be cultural as well. I'm Italian background, and we're not friends with someone if we're not feeding them. Food is at the very core of our entire being, you know, like we love to cook, you know, we love to feed, you know, you're nurturing someone if you're feeding them. All the— it's, it's You can't separate an Italian and food. It just is in our DNA, like so many cultures. And that has the opposite effect where you think everything that I do to socialize has to be around food. And you can get that distorted image that food equals love. Mm-hmm. And I'm loved if I'm feeding you, and then I'm eating, and we're all celebrating together over this Is there something that you suggest, uh, is one of your most common tips to help people go, you know what, that doesn't have to be food, it can be this, or it can be that? What, what do you normally suggest to people?

Well, yeah, yeah, no, you're so right on. And there's so much to that with, you know, feeling accepted and belonging, and there's emotional pieces to that. So I love to encourage people to create a nourishment menu and maybe a naughty menu so that they can find other ways to fill those needs outside of food. So maybe it's like, oh, thank you so much. I love that you have this great dinner. I'm going to eat what I want. And then let's do something outside of this maybe so that we can connect in another way. Maybe we will go on a walk or maybe we'll go shopping or maybe we'll grab coffee or whatever that looks like.

Mm-hmm.

But just know going in before the situation, kind of what your goals are, kind of how you want to have things happen, and have something in your back pocket that you can pull out as another way to connect. Because we can connect outside of food too.

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I've made a pact with my girlfriends, um, that when we catch up for coffee— we've always sat around and had coffee and chat, and it's beautiful, it's a beautiful way to connect— and I've said to them, you know what, Why don't we get our coffee takeaway and walk and talk? So now we do a walk and talk coffee session.

I love it.

Yeah, it's serving us better. And that's, that's the kind of tip, like you've been saying, it's small. That was only a small reframe. And it's that reframing in your mind, being creative of what else could I possibly do instead of just sitting, or, you know, that coffee equals— like, here in Australia we have cafes, you know, you have coffee shops, I believe.

Yeah.

Instead of just sitting in a cafe, sitting around, no, let's go in nature, you know, walk-talk coffee session. It's just the simplest little thing. It doesn't have to be overwhelming, and it doesn't have to put you under pressure emotionally. Until they can come and see someone like you. So, what message would you like to leave the listeners with today?

I just want to add one more thing. I love what you did with that because you weren't taking away the coffee. We're still having it, and you were doing something in addition to. I think a lot of times we try to take things away, and if it creates a vacuum and we want to fill it. So I love that you had something you already did and you added to it. I think that's very wise.

Yeah, thank you.

You know, welcome.

Yes, that is actually a really good point because it's about the depri— everyone thinks, if I have to give up this emotional eating, it equals deprivation. And to give up something, well, then you have to fill it. You can't leave— we're not designed to leave a void in our life. So then you have to fill it with something. And that's usually why people don't give up. Because they think, what? It's just one more thing I have to give up. I'm stressed. I've got the kids running around. Work is a nightmare, or I'm not being treated properly. And now you want me to give up food as well. It's not about giving it up. It's about just making isn't it about making better choices and doing something small like a coffee walk talk. Hmm. So is there a message you would like to leave? A message of hope. You've done it, you've done it, you've achieved it, which is fantastic. And now that drove you to be a life coach and health coach to help women and teens, you know, which is, uh, it's in such an important area that you're working in. I really commend you for that. Um, what message would you like to leave our listeners with today?

Yeah, I just want people to know that they don't have to stay stuck. I mean, so many times we think this is how it's always been, this is my destiny, this is my lifeline, this is what I came from, it always has to be this way. And that is not true at all. You do not have to stay stuck. You can change at any time, and freedom is always there for you.

Oh, that is good.

It is.

I love that freedom is always there. We don't have to struggle in every area of our life. And you, like you're saying, if we can reframe, then food doesn't have to be that struggle. It's— life's too short to look at food and dislike it, or to think that we need to give over our power to an inanimate object. You know, that we need to keep the power with us. And food, you know, we have to celebrate food. Food nourishes, like you said earlier. That's one of the points that I really want to bring out of this conversation, is that you brought up that food nourishes us. It's life-giving. So, you know, to have that respect for food instead of, you know, it is kind of abusing food and abusing us, that abusing that relationship. To get back to an honoring is so Fantastic, Melissa. It has been so good chatting with you today. And for all our listeners and viewers, if you do have a distorted relationship with food or you're struggling, you've noticed that maybe your teen is having a distorted relationship, they're starting to binge eat or not eat, or you're doing it yourself, All of Melissa's details will be in the show notes. It's well worth working with a coach. This isn't really an area that, uh, someone should be doing on their own. You need support. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Melissa.

Thank you for having me.

You're welcome. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview. So you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.