How to Heal from Long Covid and Get Your Life Back

Are you suffering from a cluster of symptoms long after having COVID? Then today's guest, Lee Holmes, renowned Australian clinical nutritionist, long COVID expert, whole foods chef, and author, has developed a holistic protocol that helps shorten your duration with long COVID so you can start enjoying life again. Welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Welcome, Lee. It's so good to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

This is— yeah, thank God. Long COVID is huge. I mean, you wrote your latest book, uh, Nature's Way to Healing, because you were one of the many who had long COVID, well known as, you know, effectively the long haulers. The numbers of people with long COVID is actually staggering around the world. And why is that? Can you talk about that? And why is it that it does affect mainly women?

Yeah, so, um, in my book, I have a lot of research in my book, um, and the last piece of research was that 100 million people worldwide have had long COVID or have long COVID. And yesterday I just had something pop up in my email, a newspaper article that 400 million people have had or have long COVID. So the numbers are astronomical. It's 1 in 5 now. So that's a lot of people having long COVID. And yeah, I guess why women have it, the research is really out on that. They don't really know why women get it. But I personally think just through my work as a clinical nutritionist, practitioners and people that I see in my clinic, um, a lot of women suffer from autoimmune issues and they've had chronic fatigue, um, and things like that. And if you have had viruses in the past or you've had immune issues, it tends to affect people with immune issues. And a lot of women have had autoimmune issues. And so I'm just finding that a lot in my clinic.

It's kind of staggering because you think about who hasn't had a virus, and the rate of autoimmune diseases is increasing exponentially.

Yeah.

But the thing is, how does someone know, like, if they've actually got long COVID or if it's not just something else? Like, they go to the— you know, I believe that the doctors Are a little— are they still a little behind in sort of diagnosing this, being able to give people a proper diagnosis? And then you have those who maybe don't even believe in long COVID.

Yes.

So when you go to the doctor, you've got this cluster of symptoms. How does someone know to even go to a doctor to think, I've got brain fog, it could be hormonal?

Yeah, exactly. The way that I look at it is, and the people that I speak to and the people in my clinic, is that if you have had COVID recently or within a few months and you look at the pathophysiology, if you go back to when you've had COVID and you just haven't really recovered from having COVID, you're still feeling tired, you're feeling brain foggy, you might have some weird symptoms like eye watering, hives. There's so many strange debilitating symptoms. I had pericarditis, so I had chest And I had to lie on my front for a month in bed without being able to move from the chest pain. So if you're experiencing— if you've had COVID and then afterwards you're experiencing longer-term sort of symptoms, I would definitely have a look at long COVID. Doctors are catching up, which is a really, really great thing. I mean, in the beginning they didn't know much about it, and how could they? Because honestly, it was just such a Strange, the pandemic, everything. It was a strange time. It was a strange phenomenon. So they are catching up now. Yes, there are people who, you know, are naysayers about long COVID. It's really interesting. A lot of the anti-vax vaccination population think that it's not a real thing. I'm personally not vaccinated because I had an autoimmune issue. And then I say to them, but I'm not vaccinated and I have long COVID. It is a real thing. It really is a real thing. And then you get people who are vaccinated that say you should have been vaccinated, otherwise you wouldn't have got long COVID, which the research doesn't show that. And then there is another group of people who have had chronic fatigue and they are saying, well, long COVID is just chronic fatigue. We don't call it long chronic fatigue. Now long COVID is getting a lot of news and things like that in the media, and we've been suffering for years. So there's a lot of people who are upset. You should see my social media. They're all sort of all over it. Yeah, so there's a lot of people on my social media at odds with each other and sort of trying to battle it out a little bit. Um, but what I am doing is trying to find a pathway forward. I'm all about, um, you know, Nature's Way to Healing: A Long COVID Guide. I'm all about finding answers and helping people recover from Long COVID. That is my primary focus.

Absolutely, absolutely. And before I want to ask you about how far the research has come, but before I do, before we go into that, I'd really love to hear a little bit about experience with long COVID so people can get an idea, you know, especially because someone, you know, you, you're a nutritionist, you understand the body, you understand all this, you know, um, medical research and everything. Other people don't. So I would really love to hear what you experienced.

Yeah, so I got COVID when I was in England. And it was the first time I'd had COVID. I've had it 3 times now, but that was the first time I'd had it. And I thought, oh, this is fine. I'm going to get over it in a week or 2. I'll be back on the plane and I'll be fine. But I had very bad pericarditis, which is what I was talking about, the chest pain and just debilitating fatigue. I could not get out of bed. I had really bad brain fog. I was so just chronically exhausted. So I ended up being stuck in England for 3 months, not being able to leave the country. I was in hospital over there. And then when I came home, I live sort of on a— in Palm Beach where it's very hilly. And I remember I was crawling up my 47 steps with my bag behind me, just dragging my bag, just going, I don't even know if I'm going to make it to my doorstep. And for me, I felt a lot of shame and embarrassment being someone who is in the health profession, clinical nutritionist, I was so embarrassed. I just felt a lot of shame. I felt like a fraud because here was I giving health advice and I couldn't actually get out of bed. And it took me about 6 months to really start to feel a little bit better. So yeah, it was quite difficult at the time.

Absolutely. And to be in another country, were you by yourself in that country? You had to do everything yourself?

I was. I am from England, so I have family there, which is really good. But yes, I had been working there, and yeah, it was difficult. Fortunately, the medical system was really good over there, the NHS. They were good, like they took me in and helped me a lot. But, but really, it was just so confusing. There was so much conflicting sort of research. There wasn't that much research at the time in 2022. And so I've learned so much since then.

Absolutely. It's usually our own personal experience that drives us down a path, isn't it? That, you know, for you to now write this new book about it, you know, because you've— now you really realize what all these other people have been talking about. I mean, there's so much speculation out there, and everybody, like you were saying before, you know, everybody feels like that their opinion is the right one of what people should be doing. But really, before, no one knew.

No.

So how far has the research come since you were diagnosed?

It has, it has come a long way. It's still coming along. Um, in the beginning, if we go back to COVID-19, they were very much adamant that it was a respiratory problem. But all of the long COVID cases and a lot more research, we are now looking at a cardiovascular issue. There's blood clotting issues. There's neurological issues, there's mental health issues, cardio— sorry, gastrointestinal issues. It is a multi-system issue and it cuts across so many organs and body systems. So yeah, there's a lot more research in those individual areas, still a little bit siloed. So it would be really good to come together even further and look at it holistically, I think.

And that's kind of what I'm trying to do in this Yes, well, that's what I was going to actually speak to you about, that, you know, they say there's that, you know, up to 200 different symptoms that people can experience, and that's so varied from brain fog, you know, chest pain, um, to much worse, you know, heart problems.

Yeah.

Why are they so different for different people? Why are they so different in, in people? Each person has something so different.

Yeah, I think genetics has something to do with it. The research is still out on why it goes to all the different areas, and some people get a loss of taste and smell, and then some people don't. When you look at how COVID gets into the body, it gets into the body, the virus gets into the body through the ACE2 receptor cells, which are— it gets in and then What happens when it gets into the body is that it meets with your immune cells and your, say, your mast cells, which is a type of immune cells, and your T cells. And then in some people, it can cause this immune dysregulation. And we are now finding that at the, I guess, the base of long COVID is an anti— sorry, an inflammatory profile, an immune dysregulated profile. So those 2 things together. So if someone does have immune issues or genetically predisposed to inflammation or that kind of thing, we are seeing that those people get a lot of the fatigue, the aches and pains, the joint pains, and those kinds of things as well. And if for some people who have sort of mast cell issues, They're seeing a lot of hives and the histamine kind of reactions. Some people have had COVID and they're coffee drinkers, and then after having COVID, they can't drink coffee again. It's just— yeah, there are all these different things that happen. So yeah, on the basis of it is that this cytokine storm happens in the body and it just sets up the body for all this dysregulation. And then from there, you're constantly trying to feel better again.

For the listeners and viewers, what do you mean by a cytokine storm?

Yeah, so that's when the immune cells just go haywire. They go haywire and they start to attack different areas of the body. It's like having an autoimmune issue. They start to misbehave, I suppose.

Actually, it was interesting you brought up because I was going to ask you about the mast cell and histamine. I remember when we got the vaccination, I could, you know, the, the, the warning was to tell someone if you have a histamine intolerance.

Yes. Yeah, that's what I have, and that's why I couldn't get vaccinated. So it makes sense for people who have mast cell issues that this virus is going to affect, um, the mast cell, and it's going to make it go back Um, into dysregulation again.

And inflammation, that's huge, isn't it? Inflammation just spreads throughout the whole body and just wreaks havoc. I mean, a lot of people have inflammation anyway from the foods we eat, the drinks, and all of that sort of thing. So then I assume long COVID exacerbates that or adds to it.

Yeah, exactly right. And then, and that's why a lot of people, um, because inflammation is at the root of many different, um, issues and disorders and illnesses. And so if you, if you're looking at a body that's very inflamed, then that can represent in all different areas of the body as well. So, um, for me, I was just really achy. I had like fibromyalgia. I was really stiff, really achy. My joints were achy. Just going up and down the stairs was really hard, those kinds of things.

And can you measure, can you measure that with the doctor? Like, you can say to the doctor, you know, before COVID I was feeling great, but now, you know, I, I sit for a little while and to move I feel like a, like a wooden person, like someone made of wood, and it just hurts. And can you, can you have that, all that tested?

There are different tests. Now, there isn't one test for long COVID, and there was some research out yesterday about that, actually. But there are different tests that you can do. You can test your C-reactive protein to see if you've got inflammation in the body. So that's one blood test that you can do. If you go to the doctor, there's multiple different tests you can do, but it's still early days, you know.

Yeah.

And I think for me, it was really about listening to the body and Knowing when I needed to stop and rest and pace myself instead of you know keeping on going.

Yeah, absolutely. That push through is definitely not an attitude to have when you've got long COVID or even you know whilst you've got COVID, but definitely long COVID. And can the symptoms be you know like it sounds like a lot of the symptoms are quite severe and you know you kind of hit. with a sledgehammer. Can they be subtle and you don't even realize that you've got long COVID?

It can be really subtle and it can wax and wane. And then if you go out and do too much, the next day you might be exhausted and just feel, oh, why am I so tired? You know, I'm just being— just don't want to get out of bed. So they can be very subtle, but if you push through when they're subtle, that's when they can continue and be prolonged and get worse. So that is where you really have to tune in and, and, you know, listen to your body, as it were.

That's something we all need more of, isn't it?

Yeah.

Is stopping, calming down, and listen to your body. Because every— there's this attitude that, you know, if I'm not doing, doing, doing, then, you know, there's something wrong with me. I'm not achieving. Um, yeah, it seems like to slow down is, is, um, is like almost like failure, you know.

I know.

It is just such a wrong attitude to have. We really need to have that downtime.

Yeah.

And I read in your book that you said, and I'm going to read this quote here, by shifting your perspective to view Long COVID as a neurological journey, you will open the door to understanding and addressing diverse symptoms.

Yes.

So you feel like you just— you touched on before, you feel it's a neurological journey.

It is.

That's so different to what people have been saying.

That's exactly right. So originally it was, you know, um, it was a respiratory issue, they thought. But it is because COVID can— the virus can pass the blood-brain barrier. It can set up neuroinflammation in the brain. If we think about that, then brain fog— like, for me, the brain fog was really bad. I would— I just couldn't remember words. I still can't now. I've never really gone back to my former self. So yeah, you're trying to think of a word, you know, and you're like, what's that word? Or why did I go in that room? I know that's part of aging as well. But yes, the neuroinflammation and the neurological side of things as well is quite evident in long COVID.

Yeah. And I suppose for people to recognize, if you didn't have the problem of why did I walk into this room or word recall, prior to having COVID and then you have it after, well, then that's a sign that you could possibly have long COVID.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And so what I did was the brain fog was really bad in the beginning, but I started doing— I, when I was starting to write in my book and researching, and I researched lots of, um, you know, neurological things, and I spoke to many, many experts around the world about this book, neurological scientists, You name it, I interviewed them. And so I started doing mental exercises. So I started playing Scrabble online and doing Sudoku and things like that. And I found that really helpful to sort of start training my brain again. So there are simple things you can do when you've got brain fog. I know the last thing when you've got brain fog is to try and concentrate on something, but if you do it in little short bursts, I think that really helped me.

Yeah, well, they say that, you know, brain training works, so, you know, there's no reason why it wouldn't help whilst you've got brain fog. And it is— I've experienced that. I mean, I've experienced it prior to having COVID, so I don't necessarily can put it down to long COVID, but I tell you, lately it's just like you go to say a word and you just fumble. Like, I have been in interviews for this podcast, and I've gone to ask a question or a word, and I've gone completely blank, and I cannot get that word into my brain. You know, I've had to stop the recording or something. So it is very real, and it is really debilitating.

Exactly.

Especially when people have a high-pressure job or, or anything in life. Brain fog is a terrible thing to have. It's like walking through a black cloud with a black cloud around your head.

It really is. One of the things for me, apart from the pericarditis, was pins and needles, um, peripheral neuropathy. So I had lots of pins and needles in my hands and in my feet, and I would stand up and fall over because my feet were completely dead. Um, so that was a bit scary. And I'd had a car accident previously, and, um, I had, yeah, I just broke my foot one day because I stood up and just it was partly my knee from the car accident, but also the peripheral neuropathy, the pins and needles, which just made my foot dead. So then I had a boot. I was like walking around in a boot for about eight weeks. Had long COVID, then a broken foot was just yeah.

Wow, you were hit hard. I was hit hard with the with the neuropathy, just for our viewers to understand. So you're not talking about Oh, I've been sitting in this position for too long and now I've got pins and needles. Or, you know, a lot of people experience their foot going numb with pain. It's not that. It's continuous, is it?

Continuous for me, all the time. So I'd constantly be shaking my hands and moving my feet. It was continuous.

Yeah. Oh, that is so debilitating. Yeah. And what about the implications of mental health, long COVID on mental health? What sort of— have you delved into that research? What sort of mental health issues have evolved from, well, people having long COVID?

It has been absolutely one of the biggest symptoms for people with long COVID is mental health issues. I remember when I had climbed up the stairs and I got home, And I was just trying to feel better. I wanted to get back to work, and it was so depressing not being able to get out of bed and be my normal self. Go for a walk. I couldn't even go for a walk or go to the gym. I remember I rang Lifeline. I rang Lifeline and I was like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. This is just— this is too hard.

Wow.

And the lady, she was so sweet on the other end of the phone. She said to me, just go outside, look at the sky, just focus on the clouds and that kind of thing. Which kind of pulled me back. But it is a really major thing when you have a chronic and long-term health condition. Depression, anxiety, panic attacks. It is really all part of it and a big part of it. And it's a part that kind of people don't understand, or doctors as such. A lot of them don't really understand, you know, about the mental health implications of it.

You're— like you said before, it's always been a little bit siloed. Like, we concentrate on the heart, or we concentrate on the intestines, or we concentrate maybe on, you know, mental health. But yeah, not seeing the bigger picture of how everything is interconnected.

Yeah.

So tell us, what did you do to help yourself, help your mental health through that stage?

Yeah. So I spoke to friends a lot. And then what I did was I wanted to really turn this into a positive. And I think I just one day I had started going out for little walks, but I could only do like 5 minutes a day, then come back and sleep for the rest of the day. So, but every day I got the walks got longer, so I could see that I was progressing. But with long COVID, it's sometimes it's like 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. So you have those days where you kind of go up and down a lot with it. So what I did was I thought, you know, if I, I can see that overall I am improving very slowly. Um, I put all my efforts into writing this book because I wanted to document everything and I wanted to show people that there was a way out of it. So I think for me, the mental health side, I just really distracted myself and really focused on making it something that would be beneficial for other people. Because that was really important to me. And I thought, if I'm suffering from it, I'm sure that there are plenty of other people out there who are suffering from it too. What can I do to make— give them hope? What can I do to help them through this journey? So that's what I did.

That's fantastic. So, you know, and that usually helps when you go beyond yourself and what you're experiencing and thinking of others usually helps lift, you know, helps lift your, you know, Um, low mood, depression, whatever, because it's that giving to others that—

And it is about looking outside yourself and just having that perspective where it's not just all about you, but how can you use this dark period in your life to help other people? Um, and a lot of, a lot of change happens that way, don't you think?

And a lot of positivity.

And yeah.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So what are— do you know of any new treatments coming out to help people with long COVID?

Yeah, so in my book I talk a lot about natural, um, sort of treatments.

Um, I was going to— that was going to be my next question. Did you do anything within the alternative complementary? Yeah, as well.

Yeah, exactly. So in the medical field, they're looking at a drug called low-dose naltrexone.

I've heard of that.

They're having a look at that for long COVID. Yeah, so there's that research being done at the moment. There are other things like antivirals and what have you, but the research is just coming back that they're not that helpful. And you have to get onto it really early when you have COVID so that you have less chance of getting long COVID. But naturally, you can definitely, definitely help it. And in the book, I talk about if you go back to those 2, I think, issues of why we people get long COVID, inflammation and immune dysregulation, there are natural approaches to that that can help those 2 things. And so that's kind of— I focused on that for the book. I interviewed herbalists, naturopaths, you name it. I did like— there's plans in there, nutrition plans. There's I've got all this stuff in there. There's 30 recipes as well. So the recipes are low histamine recipes. So if you think about low histamine recipes, that's going to help you with the mast cell dysregulation and kind of put it back in its place, them back in their place, and say, no, not today. So there's that. And then there's like things that you can take for inflammation. So I cover all of that in the book. Things like quercetin, which is a really good mast cell stabilizer. There's you know curcumin, turmeric, those kinds of things that are really good for inflammation. So the recipes are all written around that, and then also I have a whole supplement plan in there for people.

And what kind of? I mean, I'm familiar with low histamine diet. Yeah, I yeah, I feel I have histamine issues. So. Um, yeah, and I did have, um, certain reactions to, to the vaccine, and I felt like, you know, at one point my symptoms did linger. And yeah, so what would be for the people who don't realize— because a low histamine diet is actually healthy for everyone, you don't have to just have histamine issues. to be on a low histamine diet. But yeah, because it is, it is super healthy. So can you just step us, you know, walk us through your protocol? What does it involve? And just explain a little bit about, you know, the types of foods. And do you recommend any lifestyle changes?

Yeah, there's a lot of lifestyle changes actually, um, but I'll go back to the food first. So from a nutritional point of view, it is that low histamine diet. Now a lot of foods that you think are really healthy for the gut. So, for example, like fermented foods, things like that are very high in histamines.

Yes.

I've got a list in there of all the lower histamine foods. So you can go through the list and you can find out what's low in histamine and eat that way. So there's things like anchovies, which are high in histamines. There's aged meats, aged cheeses, anything kind of old like that. Fish like tuna, canned tuna, very high in histamines. So it's about trying to eat a little bit more naturally if you can, a little bit more fresh, and just avoiding a lot of the aged and fermented kind of foods. But there's plenty that you can eat on a low histamine diet, and there's so many lovely recipes in there, easy recipes with simple ingredients. So I cover that in the book. And then what was your second question?

Lifestyle changes.

Lifestyle changes.

Yes.

Yes. Lifestyle changes. So I cover all of that in the book too. So I'm a, I'm a yoga and meditation teacher as well. So that was a big part of my recovery. And it sounds so simple, but breathing, mindfulness, meditation, pacing, those things were instrumental to, um, helping me recover. Because when you've got long COVID, I feel like your nervous system is very dysregulated as well. So you're always kind of— you feel anxious with it. I don't know why, but you just feel like your nervous system is not— is just heightened all the time. Maybe it's anxiety about having it, but it does affect your nervous system 100%. Definitely does that. So when you are doing things like calming down your nervous system, breathing, eating mindfully, you know, your sympathetic nervous system, you're calming down and You're getting into that parasympathetic nervous system. When you're doing those things, it actually really, really helps the body, interestingly.

Yes.

A bit woo-woo, but it's very, very— I found it extremely helpful. So I go through, there's a plan in there, and it's, you know, from the— from morning till night, it's like, start off, um, maybe do a little bit, 20 minutes if you can, have a little bit of meditation, and then there's like, have this smoothie. And yeah, so I've got a whole plan in there.

Fantastic. And Lee, how long did it take you to recover?

So for the first time I had long COVID— I haven't had it 3 times— so the first time I had it was about 6 to 9 months, I would say. But then the second subsequent time, because I was following my protocol, it was only a few months. And then the last time I had it, I probably a month, and then I was good because I just followed all of my things. Actually, I did want to mention about the histamine thing. Some people find on the medical side of things, taking an antihistamine or Benadryl really helps as well. And I was doing that early on because when you're in the height of long COVID, you want something instant. So antihistamines do help. They do really work.

Yes, yes. Because you did mention about antivirals. And but the thing here, especially I think you'll know in Australia, those antivirals are only for people what is it, over 70?

So yeah, that you're hands-on, right?

Yeah, you can't get your hands on it. So if you're, if you're a bit younger and you've got COVID really bad and you're concerned about long COVID, you can't get the, the antiviral anyway. So what I'm hearing is that your book is, is, it's also, also, um, preventative.

Yes.

So it's not just as I've, I've had COVID, now I've got long COVID and I need to do this. But it's also if you stay on your protocol.

Yeah.

You understand your body, you understand whether you've got mast cells, whether you've, uh, syndrome, or whether you've got, you know, histamine, all the rest of it, autoimmune. It sounds like a very preventative, um, protocol to be on. So if in the unlikelihood that you get COVID again You know, most people have had it 2, 3, 4 times.

Yeah.

You know, you can sort of lessen your chance of actually having long COVID.

Yeah. And this book is also— it's preventative, and it's also to shorten the duration of long COVID because some people— we've had tissue samples of people that still have the virus in their body 2 years later after contracting COVID. So this shortens the— yeah. how long you have it.

Wow, 2 years after.

Some people are really struggling. Some people never really recover.

And so there's a test for that? There's a test to find out whether it's still in your body?

Yeah, you can check whether the virus is still in your body through the tissue samples. Yeah.

And is there a name for that test if somebody wants to have it done with their doctor? I don't—

I'm not 100% sure to be.

Yeah, there's like a— now what is— well, first I'd like you to just tell people where they can get your book because it's so incredibly helpful.

Yeah, so, um, you can buy the book in any bookstore. You can buy it online at Amazon. So it's Nature's Way to Healing: A Long COVID Guide. You can also buy it, um, on my website superchargeyourgut.com, and you can buy it from Rockpool Publishing as well. They're my publishers. So yeah, there's a few places that you can pick it up.

Brilliant. Can you leave us with what's your— not to overwhelm people, especially if they have got long COVID—

what's your one best tip that someone can do starting today to help My one tip, and this was the biggest thing I had to learn because I'm, um, you know, I'm a go-getter. This is my 11th book. I'm hardworking. Yeah, I'm hardworking. I don't stop. Was to stop and listen to my body and pace myself.

Mm.

Honestly, it sounds simple, is the best thing you can do for long COVID. If you do have to do something, pace yourself. Do it in short bursts. So do it, do the task, focus on it, be in it, and then be mindful in it, and then rest. Don't push through. Don't keep going because it will continue. And sometimes it gets worse and then sometimes it prolongs it. So pacing for me is the biggest key and biggest takeaway that I learned from this whole journey.

That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much. Thank you, Leigh, for coming on and sharing your wisdom with everyone about Long COVID. And for our listeners and viewers, if you would like to connect with Lee, you know that all of her details will be in the show notes, including how to get her book. Please give it a read. It is a game changer. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.