How to Take Back Power After a Cancer Diagnosis

I ended up in septic shock.

Geez.

I was— luckily, I live very close to the hospital. And so they got me there, got me stabilized. And but I remember hearing the doctors arguing over how fast I was going to die that day, as in I had hours. And I distinctly remember thinking, excuse me, I get to vote. Now, the conversation was a little bit different according to my husband, but he said, no, that was really pretty much what they, what they were doing.

Hello and welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create The health of your dreams. Do you have cancer and have feelings of hopelessness or loneliness? Then you'll love this story with Deb Creer, a cancer warrior who is rewriting the playbook on how to live with cancer. Diagnosed with stage 4 triple-positive breast cancer in 2015 and then thyroid cancer in 2023, she is on a mission to ensure That we are no longer fine, in inverted commas, with cancer. Her goal is to empower those dealing with cancer to embrace their inner warrior so that they can build a tribe, energize their voices, and expand their choices. Wow, what an intro! Hello, Deb.

Oh, Rita, hello! How are you?

I'm really well, and by the sounds of it, after all of that You sound really well, which is fantastic.

People look at me and go, you don't look sick. I'm like, thanks.

Well, I was, but now I'm not.

Right, right.

And that is— that must be so amazing for you to go through cancer twice, and such an— I assume that was such an aggressive form of breast cancer. That you had?

It was— well, it was a big shock. I had gone in for my regular checkup, just like I did, like we, like we all do, right? We go once a year. And they called and said, you need to come back and redo your mammogram. Well, I used to work for an oncologist, and I used to work for the American Cancer Society. So I thought, oh, you knew what was coming. I didn't smile pretty, right? And so I went back, but the initial diagnosis Was stage zero, so not worry, just watch type of thing. And I didn't have a lump. I didn't have a bump. I had micro calcifications. And so I did the thing that I tell people not to do. I went to Dr. Google, and I said, "Dr. Google, what is a micro calcification?" Because I'd never heard of it. And turns out it's these things that women of a certain age get everyone, and it's simply because the hormones in our bodies are changing. And so these things are just floating around in our bodies, and the vast. majority of the time there's no problem. But I am special. And so what happened was these were starting to kind of coalesce and come together, but they really weren't worried. I didn't get an oncologist. And so we did, you know, a couple other biopsies, puttered around for several months, and then finally decided to surgically remove lymph nodes from the affected side. And 8 of 12 lymph nodes were positive for cancer, which meant it had spread.

Wow.

So I went from stage zero to stage three, poof, right? And so that was that would. But you know it was all annoying. I remember telling my doctor, "I'm sorry, I don't have time for this," and she looked at me like I was an idiot. And you know, and and and you know, and it was just well we need to fix this. We need to get it done, right? You know. So then I did get an oncologist. We I I chose a part of it is my upbringing. You know, like I said, I worked for an oncologist. I worked for the American Cancer Society. I decided to go with the traditional approach to dealing with breast cancer. And but every person is different and every person needs to make the decision that they feel is best for them. And the doctor does not make that decision for them. Right.

Oh, I like that. Yeah.

Yeah. We have to advocate for ourselves. And so, but I had decided to do chemo, then surgery, then radiation. And the first chemo that I took was a big, massive dose because these things were, you know, throughout my body and it about killed me. And so I had— I've had far more complications based on septic shock than from the cancer because my organs did start to shut down. And, you know, and I spent 7 weeks in the hospital, got out, got well enough that then I had— I had decided to have a double mastectomy without reconstructive surgery. But again, total personal choice for people. You know, if I had been 30 years younger, it would have been a different decision, you know. And, and, but I was like, who needs those? And plus, I didn't want to worry about it. And, and I didn't want reconstructive, you know, there was just lots of reasons. Got a complication from that that my surgeon had never seen back in the hospital.

Wow.

And then, you know, things were going well. I had radiation. I sailed through radiation, had absolutely no complications from that. So I had 30 treatments. And but yeah, I had no complications from that. But along the way, I did deal with everything, like I said, that I, you know, because of the septic shock, my kidneys have taken a beating. I've had surgery 5 times on my kidneys since my initial diagnosis. But I also kept working almost this entire time. I tell people, you know, hospitals, at least here in the United States have really good Wi-Fi. Same with doctors' offices. And, you know, and I mean, there was one time where I was in the hospital for 7 weeks, or 7 weeks, 7 days, and nobody knew, because I just kept working. And so, you know, and then along the way, I actually had a— I've had 3 cancers. I did have a basal cell carcinoma, which is just a, you know, sounds horrible and awful, right? But it's just a very simple skin cancer.

Wow.

And I tell people, this freckly little redhead that never knew what sunscreen was, that was probably going to happen no matter what, and took care of it very easily. And then I did develop thyroid cancer a couple years ago, had to have my thyroid removed. It had not spread, and so I didn't have any further treatment for that. But it is a totally new cancer. It was not a spread of the breast cancer. So I have had 3 separate Cancers. So I'm just—I'm you know the kid that grows cancers. But you know, you just keep going, right? Making the decisions along the way that you think are best for you.

Well, you know, your attitude is so commendable. Like the way you approached it, and just you can tell by the tone of your voice, and even now the way you were speaking, I'm sure you were like that before. It was like. There's no way this is getting me. Yeah, I really was annoyed.

How dare it interrupt my life? I know. And when they called to tell me that I had the third cancer, the thyroid cancer, my caller ID showed that it was the doctor. And I thought, oh, that's not good. They don't call. And so, you know, I answered and she told me, and the first word out of my mouth was one of those other F words that we can't repeat. And, you know, and she laughed and she said, that's why you'll be I went, I'm just fine.

Exactly, exactly. It's— so do you believe, I'm sure you do, that a very positive attitude and a very upbeat, you know, approach to it is so much better than— yes, people who suddenly get the shock but go the other way and, you know, go into the— I don't like to say it like they feel sorry for me, but they tend to wallow in it and it becomes very heavy and negative. Yeah.

You know, and I'm— there are times where I am mad at the world. Pretty much only my husband knows, you know, that today is a bad day. You know, because there are bad days. I'm actually still in treatment. I go— let's see, today is Tuesday. I go on Thursday for treatment. And so, you know, I've been in treatment for 9 years. I go every 21 days.

When you say treatment, do you mean—

So I get it in— I know. So I get a drug called Herceptin. Which is, it's a pretty rough drug. And it sets me back for a couple of days. But, you know, then I go merrily along, you know, and then 21 days later, I do it again. But, you know, it's, and I don't know how long we're going to continue that. You know, I am approaching the magic, the spectacular 10-year mark.

Yes.

And so, you know, that's kind of the thing. But yeah, you know, I think part of it was, you know, I mentioned that I worked for that oncologist. It's been 35 years ago or so. I was just a wee little thing. And I was office staff. I'm not medically trained. And he was a delightful man. And one of the things that he would tell the patients was 99% of this is in your head. If you think you're going to die, you will die. If you think you're going to live, you will live. Now, it still might only be for 5 days or 50 years, you know, who knows? But how are you living in that timeframe? That's so beautiful. And he had patients who refused treatment, um, you know, and, and he was fine with that. He never tried to talk anybody into treatment as long as they were making educated decisions, um, you know. And, and we had several patients that we, you know, bid adieu to and never saw them again. Have no idea what happened with them, but they were not going to go through the traditional type of treatment, and he very much honored and respected that.

That's unusual. I don't—

you don't hear that very often, especially from like 35 years ago, right?

Absolutely, absolutely. That would have been, you know, unheard of. So knowing what, um, chemo did to your body and how you reacted. If you were to get cancer today, would you still go down that path?

I don't know. Um, and we did try chemo again, and I got the same reaction. It just wasn't as bad. I just ended up with sepsis as opposed to septic shock. Um, and, and in the hospital for 7 days. But, you know, I don't know. Uh, and, and what my oncologist has— and it was a different protocol, so totally different drugs. And so what my oncologist has said is, you know, unless there is something where it is the only choice, she wouldn't do it. And she said, because clearly my body just says, nope, nope, we don't like that. And so I love that. I love that she says, you know, something like that. And, you know, protocols may change, who knows? But yeah, it would. And I, you know, I thought about that with the thyroid cancer. Was what choice would I make now? I would probably, you know, still have done radiation or something like that. And, and, but yeah, I'm— I just don't know that I would go the route of chemo, um, because yeah, it just— my body did not like it.

Yes. Yeah. And that's it. It's so individual, isn't it? Some people can sail— well, I wouldn't say sail through it, but they have an easier time.

They have an easier time.

Their complications and their symptoms from it aren't as severe as someone else to be like yourself, go into septic shock. Right.

So, well, and, and I tell people, never assume anything, you know, you— because people assume that their hair is going to fall out, they assume that they're going to be nauseated, all of those things. And I, and I tell them, tell your doctor, because they might be able to change things, they might be able to add, they might be, you know, all sorts of things. Because you're right, every diagnosis, you know, you might have the same diagnosis, But that's where it ends, you know, because everybody is different. Absolutely.

I love that message. And you also have another message around being fine, and you put that in inverted commas, and you call it, you know, what is the I'm— what's the I'm fine?

I'm not fine. Yeah, the I'm fine syndrome. You know, that's the thing that we all do, right? Rita, how you doing today? You're gonna say, I'm fine. We say that to our doctors. We say that to the, the waitress at the restaurant. We say that to our best friends. You know, all of those things. I'm fine. It's just habit.

Yeah.

The problem is we're usually not. And it's, it's one way or the other. We might feel like we're gonna run a marathon, or we might feel like I'm really having a bad day, or I'm not well, or I've got these pains, whatever it is. But our first instinct is to say, I'm fine. And so we need to get over that. I tell people I'm hunky-dory.

Okay.

And if I don't say I'm hunky-dory, they know there's a problem. Um, you know, and, and, but we need to get out of that habit. Now, it's okay to tell the, the waitress at the restaurant you're fine, right? She doesn't need to know the whole story. But anybody else, you know, and, and, and then you do have to know how much detail am I going to go into? Do they really want to know? But then we, as the recipients of those fines, also need to look and read their body language. What was their tone? You know, maybe they are doing fine, and fine was a good thing for that day. Or maybe it's, I'm struggling, and then we can say, is there something I can do to help you? You know, and, and so yeah, fine to me is one of those 4-letter words that begins with an F.

Yeah, and it's true, we do have that as an automatic reaction, don't we? And I think also the person who's asking how you are, that's also an automatic question. It's like, are you actually asking that question with true intention behind it to actually know how that person is, or are you asking and hoping they actually just do say that they're fine because, right, anything else you don't really want to know?

Right, right. Yeah, you get really funny questions. I had one person who said, and, and this was just this earlier, um, or it would have been late last year, hadn't seen him for a while, but he knew what, you know, and, and he said, so are you still dealing with that cancer thing? And I said, well, yeah. I mean, it was— and then he didn't know what to say, right? But that way I could tell from his reaction he won't go any further. So that was where I left it. But yeah, dealing with that cancer thing, that, that's really—

I don't know what to say to you, but I think I better ask.

Yeah, yeah, you know, and, and yeah, and, and that you— we get that too, right? You know, I know you've been ill, so I probably should ask how you're doing, but I don't want to know.

Yes, yes, it does make— I think certain, certain, um, conditions do make people feel very uncomfortable, and I think one Big one is cancer, because everyone fears it so much. But, and you also have coined, which I really loved when I was reading your work, the acronym LIVE, as in A.I.V.E. Tell us why you've got this acronym.

So I started an initiative several years ago, ago, called trynottodie.live. And so the LIVE part, as you said, is an acronym. And the whole trying not to die part is when we get, when we get ill, or even if we're just grumpy, or, you know, one of those people, we get so caught up in trying to not die that we forget that we have to live. And so, yeah, so LIVE is an acronym, and it's about leading your tribe. I'm very much a big, you know, we have our tribe. I am a warrior, and I'm building my tribe around me. So we're going to lead our tribe and build the tribe that we need. Then we're going to invigorate our souls. We have to put ourselves first, which is a little bit hard for women, right?

Mm-hmm.

But then we're going to voice our feelings, and we have to be honest with ourselves first. How am I feeling? What am I thinking? All of those things. And then be honest with others. And so we're going to voice our feelings, and then we're going to elevate our mindset and know that no matter what, We will be okay.

Yeah, I love that. And that is so important to feel, you know, I think anybody who— I don't think you need— actually, what I want to say is I don't think you need to have cancer to actually live by that acronym, right? I think it's fantastic. I think everybody should. Yeah, absolutely. I love it. And it is very empowering. And I think that's what you need. And so that's why I wanted to ask you, um, You say living is the only cure for cancer, right? So what would you say to someone who has just received a diagnosis or has been dealing cancer for a while and they just aren't feeling empowered, you know, to look beyond their limited prognosis, even to look for, say, yeah, I know you did, uh, chemotherapy, but if they don't want to do chemotherapy, or they are also to look beyond that for Any alternative therapies that may help? You know, a lot of people do go really deep into a sad place. What would you say to them?

Well, you know, sometimes you can't say anything. They're just, they're just going to be there. You know, they might have been, you know, an angry, bitter person, you know, who, you know, felt the weight of the world, was, was a negative person as opposed to a positive person. And so there might not be anything you can say to them. But, you know, for those who are thinking it is a death sentence, because that is one of the first things people think, right? You're told you have cancer, and you think, I'm gonna die.

Hmm.

And, you know, and so, I'm sorry, but we're all gonna die. I keep trying to figure out how not to, but, you know, it's gonna happen. And so I do try and, you know, I think the thing is, That they need to— they and whoever's talking to them, we need to honor them and their feelings and let them know that it's okay to not be happy and to not think, whoo, this is going to be a great thing. You know, I'm one of the first people that will say the bad words to somebody if they tell me there's, you know, they've been diagnosed. Because, you know, when we tell somebody else, what normally happens is that, well, you're going to be okay. You're going to fight this. You know, they're so positive that they're a little overwhelming. And we don't give them any space to feel bad and to feel angry and to feel that grief and that fear. And so we want to acknowledge that and know that it's normal. It is perfectly normal to feel that way. Now, if it's a temporary thing, that's okay. If it is something that is more long-term, then they might need to have, you know, they might need to ask for help. And I tell people, that is one of the strongest things that you can do. is to ask for help, whether it's a therapist or maybe it's a spiritual person. Whatever it is, it shows that you're really actually very strong to say, I need help, um, you know. And, and, and then you just kind of go from there. But sometimes people just need to know that you, you think, okay, Rita, what can I do?

Yes, yes. And not try and problem solve everything for you. Just to actually—

worse, they do that. Well, my grandma had that and she— oh, she died.

Right. I know, as soon as you get something, all the, all the comparative stories come out, don't they? Which is, you know, so unhelpful. But did you ask for help, Deb? And if you did—

I did.

And who did you see?

Um, so I asked for help from my friends. and my family, you know, and even my medical care team, people like that. It's, you know, because it is, it's a big challenge. And but some of the things we're just asking for a little bit of help. You know, I have my own business and I have basically one primary client, which I know is not a good thing to do from a business perspective, but I like them. So that's all right. And when I told them that this was happening, there was a fear, right? Maybe they would say, well, you can't, you can't work with us anymore. Or they might say, you can't work with us anymore because you need to focus on getting well. My client said, what can we do to help? And which is why they are still my client, right? Um, and, but yeah, sometimes it's just asking for little things. Uh, you know, when I'd been in the hospital for so long, One of the things they told me was, you need to get out and you need to walk. You need to get fresh air and sunshine, right? Because I had been cooped up in those, those walls of the hospital for way too long. Well, my husband had been able to go back to work, so that was a really good thing. But that meant I was by myself, and I was using a walker. Can you imagine? I had to use a walker. And but more importantly, I knew I could not go by myself because what if I went thud? I mean, that was a pretty good, you know, and so I post on Facebook because that was kind of where I kept people apprised of what was going on. And I said, I need someone to come walk me 15, 20 minutes a day. And we actually have a really nice trail here by the house. And I said, you know, leash provided. You know, and because, you know, I've gone through this whole thing kind of with, you know, a wacky sense of humor. There were people who, you know, and did I feel every day? No, but I definitely had people who came and helped me. You know, other times it's, I need somebody to go to the grocery store for me, or when I got COVID, I needed somebody to go fill the prescription because my husband had COVID too, and so we couldn't leave the house. And, you know, but it's hard for us to ask for help because For whatever reason, we think we should be independent and not ask for help. But it's— it really is sometimes one of the biggest things that you can do for somebody, you know, or for yourself, obviously, is to say, I need help. And, you know, for me, on some of it was, I need somebody just to come and sit with me for a while. I'm going a little stir crazy. I need somebody to just come and— or, you know, FaceTime. This was before Zoom, you know, things like that. You know, just spend some time with me.

That— yeah, I find that fascinating that you actually put it out on Facebook and people responded. I just think that's so creative. It's clever. Like, I wouldn't in a million years think to do that. Like, it just doesn't come naturally. And that's what I was going to ask. What, what about the people that those sort of things or ideas to reach out like that doesn't come naturally, or they really, really struggle to ask for help?

Right. Or maybe they're just very private. You know, I was talking to someone today and, and he said there's maybe there's less than 20 people who he has told. And, and he didn't even tell his grown children until he had, you know, his ducks all in a row and everything. But yeah, first, now, I've always been the tell the world everything type of person, right? But others, it is hard for them to ask for help. And I think that's when they have the biggest struggles, um, you know, and, and because it just doesn't come naturally to them. Now, it's really funny because, like, in my business and in my volunteer world, I'm the I'm gonna do it all person, right? And, and people, people keep telling me, you know, there's this word card called delegate, and I'm like, oh man, um, and, and that, but, and that comes hard for me. Because it's only one way to do it, and it's my way, right?

Control.

And so, I know, you know, and so for me to, to ask for somebody to do something, um, that, that does take, you know, it takes me, you know, a while to convince myself I need to do that.

Well, that's interesting because how you started it didn't seem to reflect how you've just finished it.

Yeah, it's— it does not come easy to me to ask for help.

But the message there is you need to, especially in these situations, especially if you say you don't have children or your family lives interstate or whatever. You do need that support. And even I'm sure your husband had— your husband would have needed some support.

Right. Yeah, there were family that came and stayed, other people who offered, you know, to help and do things. And, you know, but the other thing that I've discovered during this is people, other people don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. They don't, you know, and so they might say, if they say something, because back to, you know, they don't, they don't want to know, they don't want you to be upset or all this. So they're just not going to talk about it. They're going to ignore it. But it's there. Yeah. But they might say, hey, Rita, just tell me if you need anything. And that they mean so well with that. But my brain cannot grasp that, you know. And so instead, say something specific. Can I go to the grocery store for you? Can I drive you to an appointment? And worse, can I go in with you? Right? Because I tell people, for at least the main big icky, scary appointments, take somebody with you because you need another set of ears and and another brain paying attention. But yeah, can I bring you dinner? Can, you know, can I just come and sit with you? All of those things. And it's, it's, you know, it's a little uncomfortable, right? Because we think, well, they might tell us no. Well, they might tell us no, but at least we made that offer. Or I might say, okay, if you might say, well, can I bring dinner on Thursday? And I might say, well, Thursday is not good, but would Saturday work?

That's so true. That let me know, that, that let me know what I can do is such a kind of empty request.

And we don't want to impose.

Yeah, because no one's going to let you know what you can do, right? The majority of people don't. Yeah, like you said, you don't want to impose. That, that is such a good point, and I love that because that just goes around the whole advocacy thing, learning to advocate for yourself. So in that frame, what, what are some of the questions like? What are like 5 questions to ask a doctor when you're faced with cancer?

Well, you know, these are scary questions because the second you heard the, the, that word, your brain shorted out, which is again why I say take somebody with you. Write down your notes so that you make sure you know what you're going to ask. But yeah, and some of these are kind of duh questions, but we forget because our brain has shorted out. I mean, one of the first things is, what type of cancer do I have and what stage is it? And what does that mean? You know, that's kind of all one question. You know, and what they're going to do is they're going to give you a bunch of paper to read. I always think that's funny. You know, you're like, no, no, no. You know, and then what are the treatment options? What are the side effects? And the scariest one, you know, what, what is my outcome projected to be? You know, and my final diagnosis, and you said it in the, in the intro, is stage 4 triple-positive breast cancer. Now, stage 4 breast cancer is not considered curable. Now, it might never come back, but it is not considered curable. And, you know, and so That's really scary. I mean, knowing that, and the doctors will give you the percentages and the averages, which is all they can deal with, right? And so, you know, they will say, well, most people will have a recurrence within the first 5 years, and then within the next 10. And then if they get past 10, you know, it's, you know, and obviously each one, you know, differs with the type of cancer and all of those things. But you want to ask, what is the prognosis? And, you know, one of the questions I asked my doctor was, what are other treatment options? And some of them, you know, were very traditional, and others said, okay, you want to look at, you know, alternative types. And especially if you have a type of cancer that might be a little more aggressive or something like that, they might say, you know, you might want to look at whether it's a, you know, a test or something like that. And Yeah. And then other things just along the lines of, you know, getting massages, yoga. They finally figured out nutrition plays a big role in this.

Finally.

You know, and so you want to ask your doctor, what are the other things that I should be doing? You know, and one of the things that I really love about my oncologist, they have a sign in every treatment room and it says, do not leave this room if your questions have not been answered. And there have been times where they've left and I've gone, wait, I thought of something, right? And, you know, like one of my doctors is really good with responding to emails. He loves doing it and he's younger, right? And so that's just, you know, and so find the way that works. And but you, you are the person in charge. If your questions haven't been answered, you either didn't ask them. But if you ask them and they weren't answered, make sure you get those answers. Now, it might not be the answer you want, right? Because we want them to say, you're going to be fine.

Exactly.

But, you know, we need to do that. And, you know, other things like, are there lifestyle changes I need to make? You know, are there support groups? All of this just kind of depends on you. Now, I was not a support group person. It was just not something that I was going to do. But for others, they're lifesavers, you know. And so, and then other things, you know, what side effects should I be looking for? What, you know, is there going to be pain? And what do we do for that? You know, and just, and like I said, make that doctor or that medical care provider answer those questions. I fired 3 doctors, actually more than that, during this entire process. Because they were good doctors, they just weren't meshing with me.

That's a really important point. And I think, I think asking those important questions to advocate for yourself is incredibly important. And I, and I think you would say the same, you have to urge people not to be scared of the answer. So, so many people don't ask the questions because they're scared if they're, you know, If they're not going to get the answer that they need. But, you know, it don't— like you, like you say, and I'm sure helped you, having that knowledge helped you know at least a path and a goal and, and what to do for yourself.

Right. Yeah. And it is perfectly fine to say you want a second opinion. You know, now here in the States, your insurance might not pay for a second opinion. That's annoying. Um, but you, you know, so you might have to pay for that doctor's visit. But, you know, and I was fortunate, I did get a second opinion. And she said, I agree totally with what, what they have done. She said, I wouldn't have done anything different, which put my mind at ease. And, but yeah, you know, you, you need to be able to ask, you know, somebody else, hey, what's going on? You know, what would you do?

Yeah, absolutely. And that does Alleviate the anxiety of, but someone else could have done something different, you know, to get that second opinion. It's like anything in life, you know, you buy a house, whatever, you want a second opinion on most things. So why would your health be any different?

Right.

You know, it's— you have to approach your health the same way you approach most things in life. You expect a good outcome, you expect value for your money, and you expect second or third opinions.

Right.

So can you tell us, what do you think was the biggest thing cancer taught you in your life?

Don't put things off. You know, we talk about our bucket lists, and so, you know, it's— don't, don't think, well, I'll do that 10 years from now, because we don't know. I could walk out and get hit by a bus tomorrow, right? Um, you know, I don't want my headstone to say If only I would have. So, you know, don't put things off. Um, you know, we're planning some big trips, and, you know, will we take them? Yeah, we will. Um, because my husband knows that once I set my mind to it, we're just gonna do it. Um, but, but it's also, you know, what type of life do you want to live? What type of people do you want to associate with? We were chatting before the program about the political situation. There are people that I just won't have anything thing to do with. Or the people who— oh, I really like the people who said, you must have done this yourself. Like, what? Why would you say that to somebody?

Oh, you must have done the cancer to yourself?

Yes. Now, am I a lazy slug? Yes. Do I eat fast food? Yes. Who knows whether that was part of the reason or not? But yeah, we need to avoid those toxic people and, you know, find the positive ones. I mean, my community of people are so incredible, um, you know, and, and, and some of them I've never actually met in person. I've just kind of got this, this broad range for my tribe, and members have come, members have gone. But I've had a lot of surgeries, in, in part due to the septic shock. Um, I— the procedure I had in just last December was number 35. 35th surgical procedure in 9 years. And but I remember one time when I was in for something. And, you know, and I thought, well, I can't die, all of those people will be mad at me. But at the same point, I felt that bubble of support, knowing that all those people were thinking, you know, praying for me, sending healing thoughts, all of those various things. And if they were thinking, oh, Again, at least they didn't say it.

Yes. So you—I mean—you definitely sound like a very positive, energetic person. Do you find having cancer helped you become stronger or see life, you know, your own life differently?

I think so. Now I've pretty much always kind of been like this, but. I think it did make me realize maybe what the right priorities are for me, you know, and, and, and to really think, you know, how— what do I want my legacy to be? You know, and, and do you want to— and how can I get through this the best possible way? Which for me is to laugh. For other people, it's to become very introspective, right? Whatever works for you is what you need to do because there's no right or wrong. Um, you know, you just need to do what is going to work best for you.

Yes, that's so true. And for anybody who has just recently been diagnosed with cancer or is dealing with cancer, maybe going through chemo or alternative therapies, what piece of advice could you leave our audience with today?

You are the decision maker. You are in charge.

That is absolutely spot on, and it's so true. I love that, short and sweet. You're in charge, you're the boss. This has been great. Thank you, Deb, for coming on and sharing your story with everybody. And if people want to know more about you and what you do and what you have to offer, all of Deb's links will be in the show notes. Reach out to her. As you can tell, she is just a ray of Sunshine, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your incredible story.

Thank you for the honor. It was truly an honor to chat with you.

Thank you so much. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.