Navigating Egg Freezing Challenges for Women Over 40

Welcome to today's story sharing episode about the fertility journey, IVF and egg freezing for women who choose to be solo parents. Welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, Your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Hello, Vanessa.

Hi, Rita.

It's a pleasure to have you here, and I could say this is a really interesting topic that you're going to be sharing, and the fact that it is a personal story, I can't wait to hear about it. So you're an egg freezing and IVF support coach, and I believe you have a bit of a unique perspective around the traditional family narrative and what that means. So you can support women who are making informed decisions to freeze their eggs or to do IVF in becoming future solo parents. So I would like to hear about that unique perspective. And your personal experience on this journey, please.

Yeah, Rita, thank you for inviting me today. I'm so happy to be here and to be able to speak with you. So I think one of the things I wanted to start by saying is that fertility and egg freezing and moving through IVF, it's something that you really need to have a strong mindset Or— and that is why I believe in the resilience mindset coaching. And so that's what I really like to focus on in the coaching. And it was brought about by my own story moving through egg freezing and IVF and relationships. And it's really just kind of happened at the intersection of so So many things at a particular time in my life where I had to make specific decisions because of my age. And so I began the process. It was quite late to the game. I began when I was 40. At that time, I was in a relationship and just had entered into a relationship. He was a little bit older and already had children. So Hmm. You know, by the time, you know, the topic came around when it was appropriate, wow, I found out that he wasn't interested in having children. And so for me, this meant moving forward. And at this point, I decided, well, the journey is really going to be a single— one of a single mom by choice, because children is something that I wanted. And it occurred to me so late in life. But it was also really activated by being in, at the time, which was a fantastic relationship. And so I don't hold that against him anymore. I've since worked through it. And I wonder, wow, if I wasn't in that relationship, maybe I wouldn't have even gotten the I don't know, the urges to even have children. So it's really quite amazing. And so, um, I began to look for clinics. Um, so I live in the US and I was looking for clinics within the US first. And through my own insurance, I discovered, um, because I'm a solopreneur, I like to call it, I'm a microbusiness owner. Um, even with my insurance, it was costly to move through a round of IVF. And so I then began to look elsewhere. I began to look, uh, in Europe largely. And so I was speaking with some and working with some clinics. I, um, first started to work with some clinics in Spain, and, uh, they really impressed on me the level of caring. They called me And they asked about me, and they were really, really in touch, I felt. Unfortunately, at this time, I was also trying to select a sperm donor. So I had elected to go with a donor from the European Sperm Bank. And Spain, because of their donor anonymity laws, would not permit the type of donor that I wanted. And this was really discouraging because I really liked the clinic that I was working with. And so very briefly, I could have gotten an anonymous donor, meaning they're not open to contact, meaning the— if the child in the future would like to contact the donor at some point upon turning 18. An open ID donor or an open donor With an OpenID donor, that's permissible, but with an anonymous donor, it's not. And Spain unfortunately only allows anonymous donors. And so then I began to look elsewhere in Europe, and I was really guided by the donor laws there. And so my search then led me to a clinic in Ukraine. And I know a little bit of a chuckle there. I was interested in this clinic in Ukraine because they were using a technology that wasn't permitted, and it still isn't permitted in the US for, I guess, ethical and political roadblocks. It is called the mitochondrial spindle transfer or mitochondrial replacement therapy. This is a type of therapy that allows a greater chance for someone of my age to have a viable egg and embryo. And so, well, by the time I had shipped the donor sperm to the clinic in Kyiv, I think it was maybe 2 or 3 months passing. And, well, you know, We know what happened.

The war.

So geopolitics then played a role in my fertility journey, which was wild. So I managed to ship the sperm back to Denmark, the European Sperm Bank, and I began to look for another clinic. I considered clinics in Czech Republic. And visited, which were very good, beautiful clinics. But they're really more couples-oriented. And I also looked at Greece. Greece was very nice as well. They had beautiful clinics in Greece. I looked in Athens and in Thessaloniki in northern Greece. Finally, I met a woman who was approximately my age at the time. I met her on. Facebook, and she went to a clinic in Sofia, Bulgaria. And she was actually from New Zealand, and she had traveled to this clinic. And she just had a fantastic story of she left her husband and sold her house and moved basically to Bulgaria. And at this point, yeah, I believe it was before the pandemic, because what kind of drug things along a little bit further was then after I selected to go to this particular clinic in Sofia, Bulgaria, the pandemic happened. So there were a lot of things that were out of my control, particularly the, the war and the pandemic that really kind of slowed down my getting going, getting started. And so by the time that I actually got to the clinic in Sofia, Bulgaria, I was already 44 years old. And so this is very late. And many clinics by this time are pushing donor egg. And this clinic, however, did not. And so that told me that I was in the right place. And so I basically spent the next 8 months in Bulgaria doing rounds of egg freezing and egg retrievals. And some, some of the eggs I did freeze and some I made into embryos, which means that fertilized with the donor sperm. And so that is sort of a long time to be going through the process. It's really, you know, for normal, a normal air quote situation of women in their 30s, you know, the process would take like maybe 2 weeks of the medicine. But at this point for me, I was already, you know, an advanced age. And it was— it just took longer. It took longer for me, really. And, you know, I got to thinking about support that women get. And, well, really what support they don't get. There's fertility nutritionists, sure. There's therapy. Yes, sure. But for my— for my own self, I mean, I didn't need to go back and look at instances of when my father yelled at me when I was 5 to move forward in this particular manner. So traditional therapy, I didn't feel was needed. And so I actually worked with a coach myself as I moved through this process. And this particular coach—

Can I just interrupt there just for our listeners?

Yeah.

What you're saying is Over those that period of time, you were actually what you were doing. You were freezing your eggs, so you weren't actually doing IVF. You were freezing your egg, your eggs to then use for IVF. Is that right?

That's correct. What I was technically doing was egg and embryo banking, which egg retrieval, the egg retrieval part, and going through the stimulation phase is actually the first part of IVF. So IVF is like 2 parts where you stimulate the ovaries and you retrieve the egg, and you can either elect to transfer the— while the egg is fertilized to create an embryo, then you can either transfer fresh, or you can elect to freeze the embryo for later usage. Maybe you need to— one needs to get their hormones more adjusted. You have to— it's kind of like having the right window of time in one cycle, but also the hormone levels have to be appropriate to have the transfer. And so the second piece is the embryo transfer. And so at this time, I was doing, yeah, egg freezing and embryo banking.

Banking.

Right.

The donor sperm that you spoke about, I'm just trying to put a timeline to that. Is from the time you received the donor sperm, or you selected the donor sperm, to— is that for, you know, we had war, we had the pandemic, are we looking at like 4 years? And it lasts, it's, it's perfectly fine? Like, for someone who knows nothing about this, and our listeners who may be thinking about this but just don't know where to start or what to do. So the, the donor sperm can last 4 years. You, you had it for 4 years. What was froze— or was it frozen for 4 years?

Yeah, that's correct. I mean, the—

And you were sending them from country to country?

I was like a, like a package, right? Like an Amazon package.

Doesn't it have to stay for— does it have to— wouldn't it have to stay frozen as you're putting it on a flight?

Yes, it's very interesting. They, um, the cryo shippers that I used, um, Ark Cryo, I believe, very wonderful people. They sent me pictures of, uh, leaving, you know, the, um, I forget the name of the, uh, storage container, but it's kind of like an, like an oblong type of, um, I think of like a gas, you know, a natural gas, like something that you would put on the barbecue that the— what do you call it that goes underneath? It's sort of that shape and it flips up at the top.

Yeah, the gas tank, the bulb thing.

Yes, it looks kind of like that, really. And it's just, yeah, it slips inside into a container. And I guess because of the way it is vitrified, which is flash freeze, it freezes everything in a way to where it sustains for a really, really long time. Like, a really long time. So 4 years is nothing in terms of how long these things can remain frozen. The sperm, the eggs. So yeah, so it was kind of a weird thing shipping it back and forth. But It's— and then shipped again to Bulgaria. And so, but every— it seemed very capable, and I actually had the chance to go inside clinics, and they would pull it up and show me. Not all clinics do this, but I had sort of a contact in a particular clinic in Prague, and she was allowed to take me on a tour, and The embryologist there opened up one of the containers and showed they're kind of like in little test tubes, and they just slip back inside liquid nitrogen. Yeah.

They're waiting for you.

Waiting. Yeah, waiting indefinitely.

So that was a great explanation, and it does paint a picture a little bit more for someone who's considering this. Like this is actually the egg freezing stage prior to IVF. What happens? You can have a sperm, you know, travel the globe whilst you're finding an appropriate clinic. Now let's go. You were touching on about emotional support. So you got emotional support for the reason of?

Well, I just had a lot of things happen. I had a relationship, an uncoupling occurred. The pandemic had me questioning my timeline. And, you know, going— I was going through shoulds. And then just the whole geopolitics thing and the situation in Ukraine, which is, of course, terrible. That had me questioning why I even selected that clinic. And it's impossible to have known that those things were going to occur. But it was still like there was a little bit of some victimization thinking happening, like, why is this happening to me? I'm trying to make this happen. And, you know, I know on one hand, it seems like, well, oh, why are they having a war? That seems a little— it wasn't entirely that. It was just like, I was mad at myself for picking, and in my perception, wasting more time. And so I knew I needed to kind of like, take myself out of that mindset. And Um, the coach that I was working with, she wasn't— um, she was wonderful, but she wasn't entirely familiar with the process. And at one point, I was explaining to her why the medications were necessary, as she was trying to suggest that I do it naturally. And it's kind of like, honey, I don't have a partner. I can't do this naturally. I mean, I, I suppose I could with a turkey baster, but, um, you know, This donor sperm is not exactly inexpensive. It's it is expensive.

So, yeah, she said naturally. You mean she's not meaning that you take herbs or some form of supplement or whatever to help you hold on to the the sperm? I guess I I don't know the language around IVF, but I know that a lot of people. have many unsuccessful attempts. So she's not talking about that. She meant like, why aren't you just doing it yourself, administering it yourself, as opposed to going to a clinic? Is that what she was saying?

Yeah, I, I don't know if— I don't think she was proposing IUI, uh, intrauterine insemination, which is, um, air quote turkey baster method. Um, But I think she was questioning why I was doing so many rounds of this stimulation medication leading up to the egg retrieval, because that had— I was working with her for the mood swings that would happen. You know, all the estrogen and then, you know, the terrific progesterone drops. Afterwards, um, which were actually even worse for me than the estrogen. I felt kind of good on the estrogen, but after the progesterone levels dropped, those would be, um, really intense for me. Um, it's like PMS plus plus. And so I needed—

Can you, can you actually touch on that for— yeah, for our listeners who are considering this, like What, what— so can you just circle back to a little bit about the medication? What medication do you have to be on? What type? What does it do? Because you were just talking about the symptoms there. Yeah, what happens? Like, what, what do you take? What happens? And let's then go back to the symptoms.

Right. Um, well, the main ones, um, and It's important to ask your doctor when you get to this point of, you know, what the medications are used for and what you should expect and what the anticipated side effects could be. Knowledge is key here. But so because I was doing sometimes back-to-back cycles, meaning I would do 2 egg retrievals within one cycle, monthly cycle. So I would not— I would start one right after the other. So that's called a duo stim. So the doctor would alternate with Clomid as one, Menopur and Gonal are some of the other stim medications, stimulation medications, and then a You know, a trigger shot. Trigger shot basically stops your ovulation, and so that the eggs can go in— or I'm sorry, the eggs can go in, the doctor can go in and retrieve the eggs. But different clinics will have you take different, just depending on what they feel, what the protocol is. So I don't— I'm not dispensing medical advice here, but those are typically the medicines that are used. Some doctors might add in more like birth control, basically, to prime you before the stimulation medication. And I think that's just to get the timing right. But again, it's important just to speak with your doctor about what you can anticipate. And certainly, if you do more than one round mechanically, it does get easier. But I noticed because I did so many rounds of egg freezing— I'm sorry, egg retrievals— that I could definitely testify that it felt different in between every cycle.

Mm-hmm.

Some cycles, I really wasn't as moody afterwards. But on the cycles where I had the retrievals where I was experiencing a lot of the moodiness, I mean, it was no joke. I mean, I think that it was really important that I had someone to talk to. I felt quite isolated, really. I felt really kind of like in the depths of things. But that was my personal experience. I think it's not across the board, um, like that for everyone by any means.

Mm-hmm.

But, um, for other women that I can— I, I imagine how I felt, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish that on— I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Um, so it became very important to me to, uh, look at what I could do to become more resilient and, um, the mindset that was necessary and if there were any other holistic approaches I could take to kind of make things better for myself, you know, right? Yoga, meditation, and working with a coach and, you know, taking certain herbs, you know, lemon balm tea was my friend.

That's very calming, isn't it?

I love it. It's, um, I, I think it's, it takes a few weeks to, um, you know, kind of let it, because it's an adaptogen. So it takes a few weeks to kind of like, quote unquote, kick in. But, um, yeah, it's very, it makes me feel very even keeled, which is nice.

So it is a big, and I can understand why you'd want a support coach because number one, it is a big undertaking to think to do this on your own. To actually choose to become a solo parent, um, is a big undertaking. Most people do not choose that. Um, so kudos to you for going down that path and feeling strong enough, you know, the will to have a child is strong enough for you to do all this. And then to actually have those fluctuations that you're talking about Obviously, all those hormonal fluctuations, what your body's going through. Can you tell us what stage you're at now?

Right. So now I'm at the point where I'm going to go for a transfer. I am just preparing my body as best I can, seed cycling, And just trying to have the right mindset. I'm going to do a few more tests with this particular clinic. I'm going to elect to do a hysteroscopy and just— and another test that they call an endometrial biopsy, just to make sure everything is good and that we have a good implantation. Window. So yeah, right now it's about being calm and being optimistic and just trying to, you know, make sure that, you know, I'm running a good movie in my subconscious mind. And I say that kind of flippantly, but I'm just, just trying to audit my thoughts and make sure that I'm doing the things that I can do. I realize that, yes, there's risk and there's uncertainty here. But I mean, by and large, I've, I've made peace with it. This is something that's been going on for a few years, and it's definitely changed my life. And I think one of the things, a pivotal thing that I realize now that is so important and something I'd love to share with your audience is that sometimes we have to buck tradition and fertility preservation doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a partner in the picture in order to preserve your— freeze your eggs, or if you elect to go ahead and freeze embryos. Those are 2 different things. I feel 2 different questions. The idea of whether one should freeze their eggs or whether one should have children at all. Or if I want to nominate a 3rd question that should be separate, is that should I wait until my partner's in line in order to have children? Because the point of really freezing your eggs is so that you have more of a choice. And there's really, there's really not a need to wait for that other person. It's some— it's a decision and a choice you can make independently. And I wish, I wish I had known that going in. You know, I wish I had known that in my late 30s.

So to have frozen your eggs And then be able to make the decision.

Absolutely. Yeah, I wish I had done it. Yeah.

And what should our listeners know about this path that no one else is telling them?

Yeah, um, I love this question because there are some things that I think are unexpected. Um, one, there is still some societal judgment I feel that's out there. You know, women's reproductive rights in general, particularly at home, is a really contestable issue. And so there may be some societal judgment, but also there may be some judgment from sources more near and dear, meaning loved ones and dear ones may question what you're doing. And so, And and they may not understand what's happening, the process, right? Why why can't you just go out and meet someone? When I ended the relationship in my early 40s, why didn't I just go out and meet someone? Why at that point I didn't want to go out and just meet someone for the purposes of having children? That wasn't reason enough to. Enter into a relationship, I just— that wasn't enough motivation alone because that would have been, at that time, the principal driver. And I felt like that was really, for me, disingenuous. And I don't think I would have been able to sustain that anyway. I think another thing that women will encounter is the uncertainty. The uncertainty But so the uncertainty means that what the statistics say, based on the amount of eggs that you are supposed to have in order to have a live birth versus, you know, what the doctor sees, and as far as the amount of follicles. In being able to predict how many eggs that they will be able to retrieve. So there might be a discrepancy there. So that might present some uncertainty. So working with that, being uncomfortable with the uncertainty, being uncomfortable with the fact that there may not be a partner in the picture. So there are some things that, you know, the right mindset, I think, can be really helpful with. And There are ways in your 30s, you know, even in your 20s, to preserve your fertility. Living well, you know, minimizing alcohol and caffeine. I love coffee. And I tell you, that is my greatest task to be able to limit caffeine on the daily. It's so tough. But now I just think about it in terms of, well, is it good to do and is it good to have done? So do I really need that 3rd or 4th Espresso? Espresso? No, probably not. I'll take a decaf instead. How about a matcha latte? Right? Or, you know, there's black tea. So if you— there's carob tea, not carob drink. So there's other alternatives. And so I think beginning to live well in your 20s, minimizing plastic, BPAs, and endocrine Rupture, which affects your fertility. Also stress. Stress, strangely, probably not so strangely, affects women's fertility too. So finding productive ways to manage stress. So these are all things that are good to do and good to have done that you can implement, um, yeah, at any point in your life— 20s, 30s, 40s, or 50s.

And that helps if you want to freeze your eggs for the quality of the eggs. Is that what you were saying?

Exactly so.

Well, it sounds like this is maybe an unconventional path, but I think it's also a path that is emerging. So many women, you know, they know that our eggs have a lifespan, but, you know, we want a career, we want to fulfill— there's so many things that we want to do, or life circumstances You no longer have a partner. You haven't found a partner. You prefer to do it on your own, or you know you've got a flourishing career. You're not ready. The message here is freeze your eggs early, and then when you're ready, then go down to the to the. IVF path. Now your next step is IVF, is that right?

That is right. I mean, I, I don't want to proselytize that women have to freeze their eggs necessarily. Um, it's really that women should be, um, they're more empowered by knowing their hormone levels, their AMH levels, uh, in particular, which is a marker, one marker of ovarian reserve, so that they can make the informed decisions about whether it is right for them. But yeah, I mean, some people call egg freezing an insurance policy. I really think it's more of an investment policy because, as you say, so many things can happen. I mean, geopolitics, wars, invasions, pandemics, relationships ending. Anything could happen. And it's nicer to be— to have a choice versus scrambling. I guess I'm the example of what not to do, really. And I'm so, you know, it's my path, I'm walking it. But, you know, I, I think there's— there probably was an easier way to go about things, but That's why I love sharing with, you know, with people, because even for listeners that, you know, are not going to preserve their fertility, or maybe they have children, so they can begin to have the dialogue, you know, with their children, their daughters. What could that look like? And is that something that maybe would they want to start? Saving for. Or, you know, life is long and there's a lot of unexpected twists and turns, and, you know, that's why we invest. I think it's more powerful than taking out insurance.

I love that. I love the investment. You know, you're investing in your future, you're investing in your future family. I love it. That's, that's a perfect way to put it. And I believe you help and support women who are considering doing that.

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like it just comes from a better place, a more empowering place.

Absolutely. Vanessa, what message would you like to leave our listeners with?

Um, I think I'm going to carry on with the knowing your hormone levels. I think that even just getting your hormone levels checked, uh, your fertility hormones. Next time you're at your doctor's, or reminder, okay, go ahead and make that appointment with your doctor. Just get your hormone levels checked. That way you know. Simple, easy. It's, um, maybe a few days wait. And, uh, go over it with your doctor. Have that conversation. What is— what do these numbers mean? What does it look like? And then not to get— if you elect to do some research based on what you find out, not to get overwhelmed. Don't drink from the fire hose. You know, maybe set an hour a week to start to learn about it and what you can do to optimize your fertility health.

And what I love about your story is a story of choices and possibility. And I think that's one of the messages our listeners can take away from this, is that you decided to do this. You realized that in America it was cost prohibitive, so you didn't let that stop you. You did the research, you found other places where it met your needs, either ethically or on a money level. So I think all our listeners who are considering— never give up. There's always something somewhere, and Vanessa is testament to that. You know, look where she is now. If she decided to stay in America, she could be having a very different experience. So well done to you for backing yourself and believing in yourself and going down this path. I personally think it's very brave to do this, and I congratulate you on that. So Vanessa, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story. For anybody who would like any more information or to contact Vanessa around support, all her details will be in the show notes. Please reach out, it's worth it. Thank you so much, Vanessa, for being on the show.

Thank you, Rita. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview. So you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.