Saying Yes Too Often? Here’s the Cost to Your Wellbeing

Are you a people pleaser? Do you struggle to set boundaries? Then you'll love this episode with special guest Becky Upchurch, a mindset coach helping women to say no without fear or guilt, freeing up time to do what they love. Welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Hi Becky, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.

Absolutely. I'm excited for this conversation, especially because I know from a personal experience, and I know plenty of people who do struggle with those boundaries and the ability to say no for self. Um, it's a really big topic. If you just got to do a Google search, you'll see how big this topic is. So let's start with Why is people pleasing so common?

So I think that it is first and foremost something that we are socialized into. And I think this can be especially true for people who are, um, raised as women. And I think we don't realize it until we start to really question it. So I think about the messaging that I got growing up, whether it was from my parents, you know, teachers, siblings, family, or just messaging things you see on TV. or in your community about, you know, what it means to be a good girl or what it means to be a good kid or, you know, a good student. And a lot of it revolved around, you know, being respectful. And respect often meant being agreeable and saying yes and going along to get along. And so I think for so many of us, we have internalized these habits of don't rock the boat, say yes, make people feel comfortable. Sometimes to our own detriment. So I think that's kind of the fundamental way that we learn those behaviors is we start very, very, very young. And often we don't even know that that's what's happening until we wake up one day as adults and say, why do I say yes to things I don't want to do all the time? Because we've never questioned it. It's just how we were raised or what we learned.

Absolutely it is. And That makes me think that the relationship between being able to set boundaries and saying no would then be tied to our self-worth. Is that true?

Yes. And I think that we have a connection that most of us make between the way that I show up in the world for other people And what kind of person I am. And I think that's where that self-worth piece comes in. So, for example, if I see myself as I'm a really great team player at work, or I'm a really great daughter because I'm always doing all the things for my parent, or I'm a really good partner or parent because I'm always doing things for my family, it's not simply about the things I'm doing. It's what I make it mean about myself. I make those things mean that I'm a good person. that I'm worthy, that I am somebody who has value and brings value. And then that is evidence that I can then use to prove that I am worthy, that I'm a good human, that I'm all those things that most of us aspire to be. So we kind of connect the actions that we take in service of others and make it mean something about who we are fundamentally as a human being, when in actuality, We can do those things from a place that's not loving or not caring just as easily as we can do those things from a place of compassion.

Wow, that really sounds like we tie it up as, um, a part of our identity, that it actually becomes our identity. What I do find interesting about it though is sometimes when we do a lot of things for other people and we're really kind to other people, we can't say no for other people. Going back to the self— circling back to the self-worth issue is surprisingly we don't do it for ourselves. What we're doing for someone else, we don't do so— like, we could make the best meal or the healthiest meal, we could run around and get whatever someone else needs, uh, you know, fulfill all their needs, but then we won't do it for ourselves.

Mm-hmm. And that goes back to me for that, that piece where it's the socialization mixed with the self-image. If I see myself as somebody who is a good person because I do things for others, because that is what I was taught, and that's what was modeled for me of how you're a good person or a good fill in the blank, you know, daughter, sister, friend, whatever it may be. But we're not taught That to be a good person is to be good to yourself, is to be kind to yourself, is to take time for yourself. If anything, we're taught the opposite. I know a lot of the messaging that many of us receive as kids and as adults is, oh well, that person is selfish because they're prioritizing themselves, or that person's not a team player because they're not agreeing to stay late like everybody else, or that person's not as loving as that other person because they say no to being helpful and that other person. says yes to everything. So again, it's that kind of opposite messaging. When we do the exact same things for other people, we are— we think that we're received better and it means that we are a better human. When we do those things for ourselves, we think that we are a less good human and a more selfish individual, when in actuality neither of those things is necessarily true.

Exactly. So That leads me to my next question, which you've actually just touched on a bit, is why saying no is like so anxiety-fueling, sorry, for so many people. You can see where their anxiety would come up in that.

Yes. And I think this actually traces way, way, way back and is kind of an evolutionary piece because if you think about, you know, Historically, early humanity, you know, in general, as people, we are designed to be in community with one another. I think we all know that. We all know that being in relationship is important. But if you think back many, many, many, many, many years in the early days of humanity, people literally had to rely on community and each other for their very survival. Right? If you were a member of a community group and you were ostracized and you were on your own, The likelihood of literal survival would be much less, right? So it's almost like it's hardwired in our DNA to be accepted and to be a part of community. And so anxiety comes up when we feel like, oh, I might be ostracized, because even though realistically, if every friend I had in the world ostracized me, I'm not gonna starve in the wilderness and get eaten by a bear, right? That's not what's gonna happen. But, you know, my brain and my body don't necessarily know that because I have that, you know, element of, well, this is where we came from. This is where we evolved from. And so on some level, I still feel that fear and that danger. And so being able to kind of take a step back and say, well, I'm anxious because I'm afraid I'm gonna get rejected, and there's some part of me that thinks that that's a detriment to my survival. But the actuality is, first off, I would argue that in most cases, you are not going to be ostracized because you say no. And if for some reason you are, that, that's probably not the right people to have in your life. But even so, let's say that you get ostracized for saying no to something. It's not going to kill you. It's not going to— I think we, we make up in our heads how terrible certain things are going to be. And I find that very rarely in life are things as terrible as our imaginations would lead us to believe.

Mm-hmm.

But it's the things that we imagine and those unreal scenarios that we kind of perpetuate in our minds that cause that fear and cause that anxiety.

Absolutely. But you can really understand why a people pleaser or someone who does struggle to say no, because it's, you know, being a yes person is very much part of their identity. And that can— you don't have to be just a people pleaser, but I guess someone who You know, overachievers are a bit like that as well. You know, they can never say no. It's, yes, I can take that. Yes, I can put that on my plate. Yes. You know, you know the old saying, if you want something done, give it to a busy person. You know, it's—

Yes.

You know, you can never just say no. And I guess it's all tied up into not disappointing someone. So you can really understand from what you were saying the level of fear That would be in saying to a group, no, I'm not going to do that, and no, I'm not there for you on that day, but I could be there for you on another. So how do you help your clients identify what best serves them by saying no?

So I think the first piece of the puzzle is figuring out when and where you need to have boundaries. And the important thing that I find in this kind of stage of the game is boundaries really need to be individualized.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I think sometimes people will hear, oh, you know, you should have boundaries around this, or you should have boundaries around that. And so they just kind of say, okay, well, I'll adopt these, you know, boundaries that are somewhat arbitrary because that's what people say you should do. Um, but at the end of the day, I find that every individual is different. So something that I might have a boundary about You might feel no need to have a boundary around that. Um, for example, um, personal space. I know somebody who has talked about their ideal home situation is their house is an open door to all of their friends to come and go as they please at all hours of the day or night because their friends are their family. And that, you know, if somebody's at my house at 3 o'clock in the morning, that's great. That is my nightmare, right? I don't, I don't want somebody showing up at my house and not leaving until 3 in the morning. Absolutely. Like, Love my people, but they know that is not gonna happen. So again, having a boundary, you know, for me, having a boundary around time and who's in my personal space would be important to me. For that other person, that's not a boundary they need, right? Because they have different experiences, they have different viewpoints, they have different values. So getting really clear about kind of our values and our vision for our life and using that as an anchor when creating boundaries. And something that, um, I don't quite have the verbiage for, and the best verbiage I've found, I'll share with you. And it's a little funny, but I, you know, when people talk about, well, how do you know if you need a boundary? Um, I think about if you ever look at like when a cat is upset and their body posture changes and their, you know, their hair kind of perks up. Um, that is what I think of when I have that cat feeling. about something, that might be an indicator to me that, like, hey, maybe this is an area I need to look at and see, like, do I need to set a boundary here? Because I'm getting that, like, you know, unhappy cat feeling. So really thinking about the first piece being, where do I need to set a boundary? Because it's not gonna be the same for everyone. And then once we figure out kind of where we need to set the boundary, then that, that's when we can delve into You know, how do I need to communicate that? What kind of verbiage can I use? How can I work on my thinking around it to make it easier on myself? Because again, our minds are very, very powerful, and sometimes they can lead us down rabbit holes that do not serve us.

Absolutely. So what is it that people get so wrong, or what is the common misunderstanding around boundaries?

So I think that one of the number one things that people get wrong is that if you are somebody who holds very strong boundaries, that you are less kind of a person. And again, I think it goes back to that socialization piece, like, oh, that person says no a lot, or that person isn't a team player, they must be self-absorbed, or they must not be as nice as that person who does all the things for everyone. And I think that's a really big misconception. And I will use the example of myself because I feel like if you know people who— if you spoke to people who knew me really well, they would say to you, Becky is somebody who can hold a very strong boundary in a very difficult situation. And she's also somebody who is very kindhearted and shows up for people and cares for people a great deal. And so I think the, the biggest myth is that those 2 things are mutually exclusive. And I would actually argue that the, the stronger your boundaries are and the more comfortable you get saying no, the better able you are to actually show up in community with people. Because when I show up to be in community with you, I'm not resentful of the fact that I'm there. Right? So I'm showing up in a way that I might not be if I were showing up begrudgingly or unhappily.

That is a great point. I love that point because sometimes when people show up, all of a sudden their behavior— like they're doing something for you, they said they'll do something for you, and all of a sudden their behavior changes and it becomes a little aggressive, or they become very rude in their speech. And then you realize Wait a minute, you said you want to do this for me, but now I feel that you actually resent doing this for me. And it's because—

yes.

So that inability to say no can over time exhaust you and make you angry.

Yes. And I think even sometimes when we think like, oh, I'm gonna put on my happy face and pretend that I'm glad to be here, I think it's easy for people to see through that. I think it's easy, especially people who know you well, to read your energy. And I think it's just a better situation. You know, there are certainly times where I will show up and do things that I don't necessarily want to do because my values dictate that I need to show up and do those things. But I won't pretend like this is the best moment of my life. Like, I might just be like, I'm here doing the thing, like, because you matter to me, but I'm gonna go home soon and be happy, you know.

Yeah.

And I think it's okay. I think that, you know, one of the most attractive qualities that a human being can possess is authenticity. And when we say yes to things that we don't want to say yes to, I truly believe that we are not showing up as our most authentic selves.

Absolutely. I, I read somewhere, it was a quote, I can't remember the quote fully, but I remember it going, the more we show up and say yes to someone else's needs, the less we're actually saying yes for ourselves, or the more inauthentic we're being for ourselves. So the lesson we do for ourselves— can setting boundaries go too far? Can people, when they're starting to put these boundaries in place, start becoming inflexible? Like, this is a new thing I'm doing, and you know how sometimes the pendulum swings so far before it comes back to the center? Can people start becoming inflexible?

Yes. And I think that that is, um, something that sometimes people fear, like, oh, I don't wanna be one of those people that becomes, you know, so negative, so inflexible. And that's why I think it comes back to you have to figure out what boundaries do I need to have versus just picking them arbitrarily. And I think it also goes back to really needing to understand what a boundary is. And this is one of the other, I think, biggest misconceptions about boundaries is We, as the, the royal we, as they say, often conflate a boundary and a barrier. So we sometimes think, I'm gonna put up a boundary so that person doesn't do that thing. And the reality is boundaries are for me. If I'm the boundary setter, they have nothing to do with anybody else. I am never going to be able to use my boundaries to get you to behave in a certain way. I'm not going to be able to get you to do something I want to do or stop doing something that I don't want you to do. And so I think sometimes when people take it too far and they start to kind of, as you were saying, kind of go that far side of the pendulum, and I'm setting boundaries around everything, they aren't always setting boundaries. A lot of times what they're trying to do is set limits on other people. So it's, well, I'm going to set a boundary that this person can't do this and that person can't do that and that person can't do that. Well, I have news for you, my friends. Whether we like it or not, people can do whatever they want to, even if we tell them that we do not like it. So please do not try to use boundaries in that way. The way to use a boundary is to say, I don't like that that person does that thing. I know that I cannot control what that person chooses to do. So what do I want to do in that situation to preserve my own peace? And be true to my own self. And that's where my boundary comes in, and that's how I figure out what boundary I need to have and how I want to articulate it to that person, if it's something that needs to be articulated.

That is great. That is such a great point. The difference between setting a boundary from a, a state of empowerment as opposed to setting a boundary by trying to limit their behavior, their responses, etc., to you. Someone's always going to respond how they respond, or react how they're going to react. It's how you respond. I love that point. That is such a great distinction to make about setting those boundaries. And to set those boundaries, do you help people find their values? Because you have to have a value, I'm assuming, understand your values in life to then know what you're setting a boundary around. Is that something you—

Yes. Yes. That is, um, something that I think is foundational to really any kind of coaching work, any kind of mindset work, and especially when it comes to boundaries. Because again, how do I know where my boundaries need to be if I don't know what's important to me, if I don't know how I feel about certain things? Um, So really doing work around identifying values, but not just knowing what my values are, but knowing kind of how do I want those values to show up in my life and how do I want to live into those values? Because we can have an awareness of things that we value and live a life that is completely not aligned to those values. And I think that's when you hear people talk about, you know, they feel like something's missing or they're not excited about life or, you know, they're kind of at this place where they feel stuck. Um, I think one of the first things to do is look at What are my core values, and are those things showing up in my life on a regular basis, whether it be in big ways or small ways? Um, because often it's that disconnect that causes the problem.

Yes, absolutely. So bringing this all back also to a wellness issue, because this podcast is around people looking for alternative solutions to their long-term or unresolved conditions. How is saying no a wellness issue, especially for people, say, if you've got like a chronic illness, you have chronic fatigue, anything like that? How, how does setting a boundary help them?

So I think one of the top things that comes to mind for me is the idea that We only have so much energy. Right? As much as we would like to think we have an endless supply of energy, I have found throughout my life that is not true. Even in my, you know, healthiest, you know, best periods, there's only so much bandwidth. And I think that especially when you are dealing with some type of chronic condition, that may be even more precious. Right? You may not have as much energy as you did. prior to having a chronic illness or chronic condition or whatever it may be. And so being mindful that I really need to think about what is my bandwidth. And so the relationship there is, if I'm saying yes to all of the things, am I saying no to myself? Am I saying no to the rest that I need? Am I saying no to pursuing things that may help me to feel better? And so really thinking about just that, the physical element of Am I giving myself physically what I need in terms of rest and being able to rejuvenate, being able to practice whatever self-care regimen helps me to navigate the challenges of my chronic illness? And then the other piece of it is also the mental aspect, because we can talk about, like, physical stamina, physical energy.

Mhmm.

But I also think that our mental bandwidth is Extremely important. I am somebody who has a chronic back injury that tends to flare up frequently, and I've had some various other injuries over the years because I used to try to be a runner. And unfortunately, my running career, I believe, is over for good. But it was something where when I would have, you know, flare-ups of injuries, there was certainly the physical element, but then there was also the mental element. the exhaustion, the stress that comes with all of that. And whether we realize it or not, having a physical injury or ailment and having to deal with, you know, medical appointments or trying to find information, or if we're not getting the care that we need or we're not able to find the care that we need, or we're struggling with just the very process of navigating all that we're dealing with, that can be very mentally and emotionally taxing. So then when we're adding saying yes to all of the people and all of the things on top of that, I think that's also something where we can put a strain on our mental health as well. So I think really saying no as a wellness issue is kind of twofold. It's protecting our physical health to not, you know, exacerbate any issues or make anything worse, but also protecting our mental well-being and giving ourselves kind of that, that rest and the focus that we need to really take care of ourselves. Because I think it can be very easy to say yes to things and then get to a point where we realize that, well, hey, I'm actually impacting my health because I'm trying to show up in ways that maybe I just simply can't right now. And it's okay to— I think it's hard sometimes to realize, like, hey, maybe I don't have the bandwidth to show up in the ways I want to. And so practicing acceptance of that and just recognizing that, hey, sometimes we do need to say no to others and say yes to ourselves. So that we can get to a point where we can say yes to more things down the road.

Absolutely. Really good point. And I guess touching on the emotional and mental health area of this, especially for people who have what's considered like invisible chronic illness where they feel it but you can't see it, having those boundaries around what people actually say to you. So, so many people would say, I can't see anything, or you're faking it, or you're not really that sick, you know, like, come on, just get going. What would you say? You know, what are some of the sort of boundaries someone with that condition could actually say to someone? Like, if we could give someone something tangible.

A lot of it will depend on the relationship between the people and the context. But for example, if it's, you know, somebody that you're friends with and they want you to go out and do something and you're not feeling up to it, and you communicate that and they say, oh, no, no, you're fine. You know, you just have to, you know, get out of the house and then you'll, you'll get your second wind. I think it's perfectly appropriate to be very direct and say, you know, I realize that I may appear To be just as healthy as you are, but I do have some things going on that you're not aware of. And so respectfully, I'm gonna have to set this as a hard limit. Right? And just being very direct in the conversation. I tend to be somebody who uses humor a lot because I think sometimes that can help people when they're like, well, I don't really feel comfortable being too direct with that person because maybe it's a colleague and you don't know them as well. And You know, so it might be, you know, making a joke like, oh, you know, I really wish I could say yes to that. You know, if the person, you know, you say no and the person says, oh, well, you know, I really wish you could help us out with this project, or come on, you know, you can do it. It's only one late night. You know, make a joke and be like, well, you know, Becky, I really, you know, I wish I had your energy, but, you know, I don't know. I just, I haven't had that much energy since I was in my 20s. So, you know, bless you that you do, but I'm gonna have to sit this one out. You know, just kind of making it lighthearted. So there's a lot of different ways that can approach things. Um, I think one of the key pieces is not to personalize it, because I think the reason it can be hard for people when you get that pushback, whether it be somebody pushing back because they don't like a boundary or pushing back because they don't understand a boundary, um, you know, if we're wanting to educate people, I think that can be super helpful. Sometimes we don't want to bother with educating people. We just want to get out of the situation.

Mm-hmm.

But I think sometimes people feel like, oh, well, that person is— again, I'm making it about me, right? That person is saying something that I'm taking to mean something about me. And so that's where a lot of the mindset practices come in to really dig into, well, what are the thoughts I'm having about what that person just said? And what are those thoughts meaning to me? What am I making them mean about me? Am I making them mean about my relationship with that person? Am I making them mean about my role? Um, and really digging into some of that because I think once we get that clarity, that could also help it to kind of process it on our own without that person. Because often it's what's happening in our own mind that's causing the friction. It's not so much what the person is actually saying to us.

That sounds fantastic. And that's what I was gonna say. Giving people that clarity would be so helpful to understand, to be able to depersonalize it. And also, I assume you give them— you help them with the language around setting boundaries, you know, the, you know—

Yes.

Instead of reaching for our pattern that we've always done, and now we've put a boundary, and so now we verbalize that boundary how we've always said things. I assume that you help people develop new language around setting boundaries.

Yes. And even kind of giving that verbiage, especially when it's new. I think sometimes just telling somebody to set a boundary and it's like, okay, great. You're telling me to do this thing that I've never done before and I don't know how to do it. And most people, when they first learn to set a boundary and they say, I'm going to say no more. And you ask me to do something and I say, oh, I'm sorry, I can't. And then I start talking and I start trying to explain to you why I can't do it and why I wish I could do it. And then, and the next thing I know, I'm talking for 5 minutes. When the answer was simply, I'm sorry, I can't. Right? So kind of relearning an approach where we don't have to explain ourselves. We don't have to. And if we choose to explain ourselves, here's some very clear and concise verbiage that doesn't open the door for more pressure, more conversation. And then again, just recognizing that, you know, we can set limits and say no in ways that are very kind. And will be well received. And I think something that people start to learn very quickly when they set boundaries, I think we're anticipating that people will like us less. And I think that we find that people like us more.

Yes.

Because when people see you setting boundaries, it's like, oh, that person— again, it goes back to that self-image— that person is strong enough to set boundaries. That person knows themselves well enough to know what is and isn't for them. And I think that helps people learn to know us better and learn to respect us more.

Yeah, absolutely. Because the more excuses we make why we've set the boundaries taps in— it sort of rattles that people pleasing in us. So at least you know that if it does rattle, there's an area that needs to be healed. And it is so true, you know, it takes time, doesn't it? It takes time for people to adjust to what we call the new you, you know, because they're used to one way. So you have to give that time for people to adjust to how you are now. So how do you, how do you help people to trust in their ability to create that sustainable change and understand that other people may take a little while to catch up?

I think the first piece of it is helping people understand That change is difficult for human beings across the board. It is very rare to find an individual who is very comfortable with change, and I would argue if you do meet one of those people, they've probably been practicing it for a long time. So recognizing that it is very common when we set a boundary for the first time that people are going to push back on that boundary. That does not mean our boundary is wrong. It does not mean that person is necessarily trying to disrespect us. It doesn't mean that person's right. It doesn't mean that person's a jerk. Whatever we you know, think. It's simply the fact that that person is being asked to deal with change, and that is uncomfortable for them, right? And yes, we're uncomfortable, and we're the ones creating the change, but they're the ones who are kind of receiving the change. And, you know, if you look at kind of change, the research behind change, and a lot of the conversation around change, I think you'll hear a lot of people talk about even positive change is not always received well by our brains because we are wired to stay comfortable. So really thinking about that's just part of the process. And so I tell people, expect pushback, right? Because that's another piece of this process is it's not just about setting the boundary. Setting the boundary is actually the easy part. Maintaining the boundary is where people struggle.

Mhmm.

And they want to give in and they want to people please and they want to say yes. Um, but if you start from a place of, I'm going to set this boundary. And I know it's not going to be well received. So here's how I'm gonna communicate it to help it be better received. And here's how I'm going to respond if and when the person pushes back, right? So you have kind of a plan of action ahead of time. Um, and I think that's one of the big pieces. And then the other part of it is having the realization that, yes, the first time you do this, it's not going to feel comfortable. And you're going to really want to backpedal and you're going to want to like, oh, okay, never mind. It's okay. Like you're uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. We'll just keep things status quo. The way that sustainable change happens is small incremental action over time. So I like to tell people, you know, the best way to create any kind of change in your life is to make it as easy on yourself as possible. Because the key is to get started and then just keep practicing, keep going. So I find that when it comes to setting boundaries and saying no, the easiest way to get started and, and kind of build that muscle is to start with boundary setting that feels easier. Not easy, but easier, because it may not ever feel easy when it's new.

Mm-hmm.

So I give the example, it came to my mind recently, of actually a boundary that I set one year. where I declined spending Christmas with my family. I do not suggest that you create a boundary around your holiday time with your family as the first boundary you ever set, right? That's going to be way too hard for most people. That was definitely not my first boundary. Um, pick something that's easy, right? Pick somebody, you know, I like to give the example of instead of setting a boundary with a parent or your best friend, Maybe set a boundary with the neighbor down the street that you're not super close to, right? Or maybe set a boundary with, you know, a peripheral coworker, somebody you're not super emotionally invested in. Um, and practice setting those small boundaries. Practice saying no on a small scale to start building that practice, building that muscle, building your comfort. And then you graduate to the more challenging things, right? You don't wanna just, you know, and I love to give the example of, you know, when you're working out. You know, nobody— I mean, maybe they do, but they shouldn't. I don't think anybody goes into a gym having never lifted weights in their life and tries to bench press 800 pounds, right? If anybody did that, if you saw somebody try to do that, you would be like, you're insane. What are you doing? It's kind of the same concept with boundaries. Like, don't pick a boundary that's very difficult with somebody that maybe you have a very fraught or very emotionally tied relationship to. Pick something light. Pick something small. You know, pick up that 10-pound weight, not the 800-pound weight. Um, and get in some reps, get in some practice, and then you start adding layers.

Very good point. And that actually answered my last question all in one. Now, Becky, you have a free resource, don't you, for people, for our listeners, that it will be in the show notes. Can you just touch on that?

Yes, it is called The People Pleaser's Guide to Saying No. And I will tell you, if you're listening and you're like, well, I don't know that I consider myself a people pleaser, I would say, well, maybe you don't consider yourself a people pleaser. But if you're somebody who struggles with saying no, or you find that you say yes to a lot of things that you don't want to say yes to, the guide is also for you. And it really starts you off on that process of how do I shift out of that mentality of people pleasing or being a yes person to being someone who can say no. And not just say no, but say no comfortably. Say no without being afraid of repercussions. Saying no without feeling super anxious about it. Because to me, that's also key. I don't just want people to feel comfortable. Like, I don't want people to just be able to say no. I want them to be able to say no without feeling like a paralyzing anxiousness around it.

Yeah.

Right? I want people to be able to do this with ease and comfort. But again, it's a process. It takes time. But I will emphasize it's not as difficult as we tend to think it is, right? Everything, you know, every change requires effort. But I think sometimes we think it's gonna be this horrible, arduous effort. I believe, again, change comes in small, simple steps practiced over time. So that's kind of the premise of the guide as well.

That's fantastic. Becky Upchurch, it has been Such a pleasure to have you on the show, and this is such an important topic. I really hope that all our listeners go to the show notes, find your details, connect with you, because really people are stressed and exhausted, and one way around that is to set boundaries. Thank you for sharing.

Yes, thank you so much for having me. This was such a great conversation.

It really was. Thank you. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom Taking Back Control of Your Health at life-onus.com.