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Why so many women believe menopause is really the end of who they are instead of like this rebirth and the beginning of a new them, in a way. Why do you think that their belief holds so much power, and how can we start to shift it? Welcome, Ashley, to the show.

Thanks so much, Rita. I'm so excited to be here.

Great. I'm excited to have you, and this is going to be a great conversation around menopause because you're taking a different angle. And I'd really like to start with why so many women believe menopause is really the end of who they are instead of like this rebirth and the beginning of a new them, in a way.

Yes.

Why do you think that their belief holds so much power, and how can we start to shift it?

I know we probably both hear the same thing over and over again, that it's like, yes, menopause is sort of the beginning of the end, and it's this like slow decline. And I think there are a number of things going on. I really believe that when women get to this age where they're 40, 45, you know, whenever menopause, perimenopause starts for them Life starts to feel harder, and it's all of a sudden. You know what I hear in my work most common is I can't get rid of the weight, and the weight starts to be the thing that they fixate on. But other things are happening too, and when we can't really identify like what the heck is going on with our bodies, we start to get really defeated and really frustrated, and. When you start to feel that way, you, you stop looking for answers or solutions. And so it makes it really easy to say, you know what, it's just menopause. And menopause is— this is happening to me. We feel like we don't have agency over what's happening to our body.

Mm-hmm.

And so with a lack of knowledge or education about what's happening, and then feeling really frustrated and not feeling like yourself, it's no wonder that women just sort of— I don't want to say give up, but a lot of women do. They just resign themselves to say, well, guess this is what midlife is like. I guess this is what 40 and 50 and 60 is going to be like. They, they lose hope.

They feel exhausted because they approach menopause like it's a battle, it's a fight I have to win, I have to try and overpower. That's Having that is exhausting.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really, I mean, even from a biological standpoint, when you feel like you're in battle, your cortisol increases, that increases inflammation in your body. And when you have more cortisol, more inflammation, your brain doesn't work as well. Your mental health is not as spot on as it could be. And so we, we have to change the tune of how we look at menopause that It's not a fight. It's not the end of the end or the beginning of the end. It's, it's a different chapter. It's a different journey. And I could not be more thankful for the conversation that is happening in 2024 and 2025. It's exploding. And, you know, the New York Times has information about menopause. Like, it's everywhere. And so I think the more we start to lean into that conversation, the easier it makes it To start recognizing, oh, maybe there are some benefits that can come from this. Maybe if I learn more, I can start understanding what this journey is going to look like, and it won't feel so daunting.

This conversation is one of those more unique conversations in the fact that a lot of people are talking about what happens when your hormones are low, all the physiology, all the biology, and all of that sort of thing, but What really affects it as well is like our beliefs and how we enter menopause, like the beliefs that we would have had from young, from a teenager or in our 20s or 30s about ourselves, about weight loss, about our body, about changes. So like, how do these limiting beliefs affect a woman's relationship with, say, self-care, whether it's, you know, you're eating well or moving your body or prioritizing rest?

If you believe that menopause is the beginning of the end for you, your brain is not going to lead you to find creative solutions, to try different, you know, alternative therapies, to look for things that could help you to feel better. And it's— I, in my work, I really like to utilize a framework. It's a mindset framework. That helps us to understand that it's actually not menopause that's making you feel bad. Sure, menopause has a physiological impact on your body, but when you think, oh gosh, you know what, this is, this is the end, this is like I can't do anything more, I'm not going to feel any better, I'm going to start gaining weight, this is just what my life is going to be, as a result of that thought, you actually choose to do different things, like throw your hands up and say, you know what, forget it. If it doesn't matter, I'm just going to eat whatever I want or drink whatever I want. I'm not going to get out for my daily walk. Whereas if you shift your, your thoughts and you say, you know, I am curious what would happen if I actually put in a 30-minute walk 5 days a week. What would happen to my weight? What would happen to my mental health or my outlook? If we can shift the way that we think about it, our brains will allow us to do different things. But it can be so damaging to get stuck in that thought of, you know what, it just doesn't matter. Nothing that I ever do will help. It's not, you know, I'm— this is the way that it's going to be for the rest of my life. It's very damaging.

And do you find with your clients that they may be struggling with unrecognized grief around the way their body was, the way their metabolism was, and accepting the way they are now? And does that play a big role in, say, motivating themselves to go for this 30-minute walk or to eat something healthy as opposed to something that they're craving?

For sure. I think there's so many things that happen for women around the time of menopause, and I think specifically about moms. You know, when you're a mom and you enter menopause, that's probably a similar time that your kids are heading out of the home and you're going to be an empty nester. Maybe you're starting to look at your relationship with your partner very differently. And so All of these things in life are shifting. I mean, you can see why this time of life feels a little bit like a midlife crisis. And so the grief that comes along with that is really mourning. But I don't, I don't even know that women do it actively. They just, they wish, they pine for what it used to be, or how they used to feel, or what they used to look like. And it is truly a feeling of grief, of loss that I'm not going to be that person anymore. And I don't— I think we try and like get back to being like that, but we never will be. We have to find a way to move forward. Our brain and our nervous system really like predictability. And so during this time of life, It— we don't know what's coming next. We don't know what it's going to look like. We don't know how it— what, like, how to handle it. And so feeling very sad for what we're missing but not knowing how to look forward, it leaves us really, really stuck.

It's the acceptance. I think the acceptance of the new, but not wanting to accept the new because you're not liking the way it's looking. Because, you know, when we're younger, you know, we have flatter tummy, we have, you know, slimmer hips, you know, etc. Now we've got more of a rounded appearance, which, you know, centuries ago was fashionable and now it's not. So I sort of feel like society plays a big part in this as well, of how we should look and the effect. So do things like, you know, the grief Um, shame that they feel, this hopelessness sometimes that some women can feel. Does that affect us physically in the terms of inflammation, sleep issues, or even weight resistance that may not be directly connected to your hormone levels but more to your mindset and beliefs?

I am a huge proponent of healing our gut health as a means of improving the rest of our body. When your gut health is not optimal, you have mental health issues, you have additional inflammation. And so when we feel bad and we're also probably not making the best nutritional choices or the best, you know, like fitness— I use that loosely— but we're not making the best choices for self-care and taking care of our body. what we're doing is we're adding fuel to the fire. Our cortisol is raised because we feel anxious. We feel worried about, gosh, you know, everything I do, like, I can't, I can't get myself back to what I used to look like, or I don't feel the way that I used to. And then we're not making those great nutritional choices and our gut health gets thrown out of whack. And so that's one area that I love to work with women to say we have to look at nutrition and use that as a vehicle for stronger mental health and stronger mental resistance to say, oh, maybe if I'm making different food choices, not only does it make me feel better, but biologically it's helping me to feel better. And again, we can try and blame it all on our hormones and menopause and lack of hormones, but we have that agency to be able to make some changes that can improve our quality of life. We just have to be brave enough to make those changes.

Our free will to choose differently if what we're doing isn't working. And I like the fact that you brought up about the microbiome, because even that can help balance out your hormones and definitely help you digest better, or help with your— you know, a lot of B vitamins are created in the intestines when you've got good microbiome. So that definitely helps. And that does take it like what you were just saying, it kind of takes that commitment to choose the foods that will help support that. You know, it's just not a quick fix. This is like definitely one area where you just cannot have the quick fix. So for, you know, for the women who feel like they've, you know, tried everything And still nothing is working. How can she start building real rebuilding trust in her body? Because I think you can lose trust in your body that it's it's there for you, that it's working for you, and to help you drop that it's against you.

We do think like our body we have to fight with our body, and our body is doing something mean and bad to us, and Reality is that perimenopause and menopause gives our body an ability to change. It also changes who we are as women and what we can do in our lives. And if you talk to enough women who have gone through menopause and are postmenopausal, they will tell you things like, my boundaries are different. I'm able to say no a little bit easier. And this is actually a hormonal change that's happening in your body that we don't have as many hormones that are those nurturing, caretaking hormones, we can actually prioritize ourselves and put ourselves first in a way that hasn't been possible for, you know, the first half of our lives. And so I think when it comes to building trust, there has to be somewhere that you take a leap of faith. Because again, like I had mentioned earlier, you know, our nervous system really likes predictability. It likes to know what's coming up. How we can anticipate it. Like, this is our primal brain that it was the only way that we could survive if we needed to run from a bear or a saber-toothed tiger. And so when we don't have that predictability, sometimes we just have to take that leap of trust in one little area. And that's why the example of walk 30 minutes a day for 5 days. What would happen? I don't know. Let's try it. And these small little incremental steps will add up over time. They're not all going to be great. They're not all going to work. It's not going to happen overnight. But we have to— we have to build that mental resistance to say, I can— I can try again tomorrow. Maybe today wasn't great in the way that I ate or the movement for my body, but I can try again tomorrow. And I think once we start pulling ourselves away from the shame of Oh, I feel shame about what I look like, or, you know, how much energy I have or don't have, and what I used to be versus what I am now. That shame can be crippling in allowing us to take that agency and say, gosh, I'm just going to— I'm going to try tomorrow. I'm going to try differently tomorrow. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. And then I'll try again the next day. Those small changes are what's going to help to build that trust.

What I heard from that is really moving from, you know, about becoming curious. Like you were saying, what would happen if I just did that 30-minute walk? It may take all my will and might to actually get out of the door and, you know, onto the pavement. But what happens, what could possibly happen if I did?

Mm-hmm.

It's fostering curiosity instead of criticism. And that criticism brings me to my next thing around— a lot of women have that self-criticism instead of curiosity. And what could you suggest to start shifting that dialogue into what feels authentic for them and not going into toxic positivity?

Like, I know how to fake it till I make it. I think most women do. But that's not gonna move the needle. It never will. And so I think leaning into that curiosity again is the place that we start, because it's really easy to put ourselves down. Our, our brain has gotten used to doing that as women over time. I'm so dumb. I'm so fat. I'm so old. I'm so like all these things. Like, we all say it. If somebody heard our inner monologue, they would be horrified at how we speak to ourselves. The problem is that has become the easy button for our brain to put ourselves down, to doubt our abilities, to, you know, place shame on the things that we have accomplished or not accomplished. And so again, leaning into that curiosity and really becoming aware, I think it's important to sort of like pause And notice, what things am I saying to myself right now? How, how is that making me feel when I say, gosh, you were so much better 10 years ago? Whoa, where do you feel that in your body? How does that resonate in, in your soul? And then start getting curious. What would be a thought that I could feel right now that might feel a little bit more true? It's not possible to go from, I was so much better 10 years ago, to, I'm amazing today, because our, our brain, our nervous system, they don't believe that. But what we can do is I like to call them bridge statements, where if our original thought is like, gosh, you know, I was just so much better, so much skinnier, whatever, 10 years ago, our new statement could be something like, I am struggling today with My weight, my appearance, my energy level. But I'm actually learning how to handle it differently. That's it. That's all we have to do is this small bridge statement to say, huh, okay, I can get a little bit like— that feels a little bit true. I'm learning. Yeah, okay. Because if we try and go all the way to the other side and say, I am just amazing today, and I look amazing, I feel great. Liar. We don't feel like, like we're being honest with ourselves. So we have to go somewhere in the middle that feels a little bit more true, or that could be believable. And the more we start to pause and notice how those thoughts are impacting us, the easier it is to start then creating a new thought to have that will lead us to making different choices, stronger choices, more helpful choices.

And that is so true. We all do the, the, the great leap, you know. We go from where we are to where we want to be in one massive leap without any incremental steps in between. We just want to be from here to there. And that— and I find, on a slight note, that that's one of the things that sort of grates with the coaching industry, is that they go from here to where you want to be, just go for it. But what about all the little steps and all the emotions and feelings and all the bumps that are actually in between that? And that's what you just described, which I think is incredible. And that's the way to start thinking of it. It's giving yourself the permission to start and then just take those little steps. Don't be hard on yourself. Like you were saying, that being hard on yourself is very demotivating. So I was going to ask you, and I feel like you've just answered it in a way, what a, what, what a powerful reframe could be to stop people from obsessing around the scales. It's like the scales is the Holy Grail, you know?

Yeah. Yes, it is. And I think the— yes, we sort of answered it, but I think a really good reframe is to start looking at our entire journey outside, like Yes, it's weight. Yes, it's the wrinkles on our skin or the creepy skin on our neck, like all the things that start to really happen as we get into midlife and beyond. I think the best way to reframe is when we're doing that moment of pausing and noticing what thoughts we're having. Try this thought on. How is this working for me? How is this season of life working for me? It's such a— again, it leans us into curiosity because we have become automatically conditioned to just think negative thoughts. But if we say, how is this working for me? Well, you know, like I said earlier, I am able to create better boundaries. I can say no a lot easier these days. I, you know, am wise.

Mhmm.

beyond my years because of all the lived experiences that I've had. All of these things take our current life situation away from the fact that, yes, in menopause it is harder to lose weight. It is harder to get a good night's sleep. We know all of this. But if we can start reframing our thoughts to say, how, how is this working for me? How is this bettering my life? How is this changing me as a woman, as a mother, as a partner, as a sister? Then we can start to get curious and we'll start to think different thoughts because of it.

Self-inquiry is so important from like what you were just saying, and I think that's what people don't do enough of. Yeah, you know, just like question yourself. Don't just be automatic about everything. Just sort of pause and go, you Is this helpful? Is this harming? Or why am I doing this? They are the— I think, like you were just saying, some of the key questions to ask that we just don't. We're not taught to do that though.

We're not taught to do that. And I think, um, it becomes another easy button to lean into overwhelm. So we feel overwhelmed with our lives, and we feel overwhelmed with what's happening to our bodies, and we feel overwhelmed with this like future that we don't, you know, it's, it's different if we're empty nesting, or if we're, you know, moving, or we're retiring, like whatever that looks like. We lean into overwhelm because again, it feels easier. We've been there so many times before. When we lean into feeling overwhelmed or frustrated or self-deprecating, our brain knows exactly what to expect. we know we're going to talk to ourselves poorly, we're going to feel badly, and then we're just going to forget about it and we're going to try and move on the next day. It's predictable for our brain. So when we start asking brain to examine, you know, being a little bit more introspective, or, hey brain, like, what— how is this working out for us? Our brain, our nervous system don't feel as safe because we don't know. We don't know what the answer is. And so we— that's why I say we have to be brave. We have to be brave to start questioning the thoughts that we're having around how we feel with our weight and how we feel with aging. Once you start to question, your brain starts to look at it differently, and you will have those different thoughts.

But why do you believe that hormone replacement alone isn't enough to help weight loss in menopause? You know, especially because we're discussing from a mind— mindset, you know, whole person lens.

Yes. Yeah. So yes, I will disclaimer, I am not a doctor, but I will say hormone replacement therapy is not a magic key. It's just not. And any doctor will tell you that as well. Your lifestyle needs to change as you go into menopause and postmenopause. You need to change the way you eat. The research is resounding around strength training and building lean muscle mass. But guess what? Changing the way you eat, it takes work. Lifting weights, it takes work. And so if you don't have this positive mindset, the hormone replacement therapy, it's not going to just like take the weight away. You have to make those additional changes, which takes effort. And again, this is where our brain is designed to conserve energy and to limit the amount of effort that we put forth for things. Our primal brain, it was allowing us to survive. But right now we look at hormone replacement therapy and just think, oh, if I can just get my hormones balanced, that weight will just come right off. No, it won't. It just won't. And any doctor will tell you that you have to do the other things to be supportive in your lifestyle to make the HRT as impactful as it can be. So yes, it can be very helpful. So can all of the other things— the diet, the fitness, everything else. You have to think the right way in order to push through the days that feel hard, to say no to the dessert, to ask for carrots and celery for an appetizer instead of bread. These things take effort. So we need more than just the HRT. We, we need to change our mindset around where we are.

Some of the women closest to me who are on HRT have put on more weight whilst on HRT than they were when— and I'm not saying it's the HRT that put on the weight, it was just lifestyle choices. But the HRT didn't just drop all the weight, it actually didn't drop any weight. And then, you know, it made them happier, you know, it made them more balanced, you know, mood-wise, and, you know, maybe a little bit more energy. But this magic pill to get the weight off, no, it did not at all. No.

And that's, again, you can imagine their thought process perhaps, or maybe they've said some things where it's like, oh well, I'm on HRT, like no big deal, let's go out and have a big dinner, or let's have a really fun brunch and everybody bring You know, delicious treats and desserts, you, you start to think, oh, well, this is doing the work for me. It's not. It doesn't. And that's such a great example that we have to do more than just expect that there is a magic key or a magic solution that's going to lose all the weight and make us feel better all at the same time. To ask for carrots and celery for an appetizer instead of bread. These things take effort, so we need more than just the HRT. We we need to change our mindset around where we are.

To finish off, I was going to ask you what was one empowering truth you wish everyone every woman knew about menopause and her body?

The only thing that can help your journey in menopause is your brain. I know we want it to be. I'm putting on muscle, or I'm gonna lose weight, or I have the HRT, or any of those solutions that we look for. The best thing you can do is to support your brain, your nervous system, and the way that you think and feel, because those things are what is actually going to shift and change the tide for you. All of the other things will help. They are support mechanisms, but your brain is going to be your biggest asset all the way through menopause and beyond.

The more women really take that on, the better they will go through menopause, and then the better relationship they— I think they'll have with their friends and family as well.

You know, as we know, actually, this has been amazing.

And you know what, What I've taken from this conversation is that menopause is not a phase of fear. You know, it's an invitation to reconnect, to reframe, and to rise up. You know, for those listening, you're not broken. You know, you're become— you are— you're actually becoming— you're becoming someone new. And that shift starts with, I guess, like you were saying, how you speak to yourself. I've really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for coming on the show. And for—

Thank you for having me. This is wonderful, Rita.

I think it's the most important topic around menopause. And for anybody who has resonated with Ashley, please, all her details will be in the show notes. So go there, you'll be able to book in. You do see people online, don't you, Ashley?

Yes, absolutely. Yep, I do group coaching and individual coaching. So just come check me out. There's a lot of fun resources and things that you can find as well.

Great. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you.