Understanding Fibromyalgia Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment Options

Welcome to today's episode, especially for our listeners who have or suspect they may have fibromyalgia. Tammy Stacklehouse had fibromyalgia that disabled her life for many years before she brought it into remission. She is a certified fibromyalgia coach and the executive producer of the fibromyalgia documentary. Invisible, and the founder of the International Fibromyalgia Coaching Institute. Hello and welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach And the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Welcome to today's episode, especially for our listeners who have or suspect they may have fibromyalgia. Tammy Stacklehouse had fibromyalgia that disabled her life for many years before she brought it into remission. She is a certified fibromyalgia coach and the executive producer of the fibromyalgia documentary Invisible and the founder of the International Fibromyalgia Coaching Institute. Welcome, Tammy. It's so good to have you here.

Thank you so much. It's, it's good to be here.

Excellent. I mean, you sound like an absolute professional in this area. on, uh, well, on a business level and on a personal level. So I can't wait to dive into all the insights and educate our listeners who have it and who may suspect that they may be developing it. So why don't we start with what is fibromyalgia?

That's a great place to start. So fibromyalgia is a chronic condition. Uh, there are 4 primary symptoms. One is widespread body pain. The second is unrelenting fatigue. This is more than just being a little tired. This is more like, remember when we used to have those cell phone batteries that you'd charge all night and they'd last an hour? That kind of fatigue. We have unrefreshing sleep. So you'll sleep and sleep and sleep and sleep and feel like you still never slept. And then we also have cognitive dysfunction or brain fog. And those Well, they are the 4 primary symptoms. The easiest way I think to explain fibromyalgia is that it's an amplifier. It'll take anything that's going on in your life. If you've got a bad knee, and it will jack that pain up. If you are sick with, you know, you get the cold, you are going to have your fatigue amplified. So fibromyalgia really works as an amplifier for everything else. Right.

So we're talking body pain, fatigue, brain fog, refreshing sleep, poor— yeah, brain fog, which is kind of confusing for people because that's a lot that would fall into things like, um, menopause.

Sure.

Or some form of, uh, immune disorder or autoimmune or anything like that. So what, what is exactly happening, you know? So for someone, what, what are some of the early signs and symptoms, and what is fibromyalgia actually doing in the body, you know?

Yeah, great question, great question. And there's honestly, there's a lot about fibromyalgia we don't know yet. Um, I always like to describe it like the— you might be familiar with the parable of the blind men and the elephant. Right? All the blind men are touching the elephant, and one says it's a snake, and one says it's a wall, and one says it's a you know a pillar, depending on what part of the elephant we're touching. And fibromyalgia is quite like that. We know little bits and pieces of it. We know there's mitochondrial dysfunction. We know there's something going on with the fascia. We know there's nervous system changes. We actually process pain a little bit differently, amplified pain processing. So there's a bunch of these little bits of the elephant that we see, but we don't, we don't know the ultimate, like, whole picture yet. So really, the thing to think about, the thing that I think really sets fibromyalgia apart from, you know, you've got other types of chronic pain, like you mentioned, menopause, or, you know, whatever else might be going on, is really, I think, this amplified pain processing. So some of the early signs that you might see is People think you're overreacting. You think that something hurts a lot more than other people think it should hurt, right? You stub your toe and next thing you know, like, everything hurts. That's like a classic fibro thing. You might have, you know, joint pain, but yet your joint pain is so much worse than what maybe it looks like it should be on an x-ray.

Right?

So it's this, this amplification. Another real hallmark of fibromyalgia is the unrefreshing sleep. And although somebody, you know, your average person isn't going to know what's happening with your brain waves while you sleep, that is one of the things that a sleep doctor could be able to see. And we have these alpha brain waves intruding into slow-wave delta sleep, so we don't get deep sleep. We often don't get REM sleep. If you're not dreaming at night, that can be a symptom, of course, you know, of a lot of other things too, right? There are other things that, that may cause you to have poor sleep, but these are all clues to look further. And part of the diagnosis of fibromyalgia is, of course, ruling out these other things. Fibromyalgia is not a magnesium deficiency. Fibromyalgia is not automatically part of menopause. We need to look at all those other things and eliminate them as much as possible. But this, that little turning up of the pain volume knob, that's a good sign that there's something else going on in addition to whatever is causing that pain in the first place.

That's really interesting that you say that turning up of the pain, because I have a friend who, when you give her a big bear hug, right? Oh, don't, don't, it hurts. Okay. Like she's saying that it hurts, like it hurts on her skin, but it kind of— pain. Is that the type of amplified pain you're talking about? That if someone touches you, like I would go like that to me and yeah, I can feel it, but they would feel it like, whoa, 10 times worse.

Yep. That's exactly what I'm talking about. In functional MRIs, what, what they actually did to study this is they applied pressure to the thumbs. And somebody with fibromyalgia rated their pain twice as high as somebody without fibromyalgia. In addition, 10 areas of the brain, 10 additional areas of the brain would light up in a fibro brain. So we're actually experiencing that pain, not just that it's more, but we're experiencing it in a different way.

Right. So that has to do with the way the brain is interpreting the pain? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. You know, originally fibromyalgia kind of fell under the College of Rheumatology. It's still there. But the more we look at it, the more we think that it might be a central nervous system issue where your nervous system is just a little bit haywire, processing things wrong. And then a couple of years ago, there was actually a study done in London where they were looking at antibodies. They did this in mice, so, you know, the translation between mice and humans.

Right.

But they did find that when they gave certain antibodies from a mouse that was experiencing essentially like fibro-like symptoms, when they gave that to a healthy mouse, they actually developed those symptoms. And then after, you know, the amount of time that it would take for those antibodies to clear, the mouse would go back to normal. So there does also seem to be some sort of immune system connection there. We don't know exactly what yet. There's more studying that needs to be done. But all of these things kind of play into us just not processing things right. Unlike something like arthritis, there's no actual damage in our bodies, right? Like, there's no damage to the muscles, no damage in the joints. The damage is more like we're processing things wrong.

Can— so if it's an immune system and nervous system thing, can things like a previous trauma activate something like this? Actually, that was going to be a bit more of a bigger question. Number one, who is more likely to experience fibromyalgia, as in gender? Like, which gender would experience it more? And are— and do they have any underlying conditions that may predispose them to having or developing fibromyalgia?

Yes, great question.

Is trauma part of that and the mind-body connection?

Yep, absolutely. So, um, right now the numbers are showing that women are more likely I happen to think it's probably a lot closer to 50/50.

Oh.

It is seen as a woman's illness, so men are not diagnosed as often. It's one of the things that comes out in that documentary that you mentioned. But, you know, guys don't go to the doctor as often. I mean, I really do think that it is a lot closer to 50/50, but I think the numbers right now are around 70 or 80%. Women, more likely to be middle-aged, but that doesn't mean that, you know, kids can get fibromyalgia too. There does seem to be a genetic component to this as well. You're 8 times more likely to have fibromyalgia if you have a first-degree relative, so parent, sibling, child. So there are a lot of these genetic pieces, you know, just the way you were made kind of things, but absolutely trauma does play a piece in this. Almost every fibro person has some kind of trauma. And just to be really clear on what I mean by that, that could be, you know, mental or emotional trauma, like losing a parent or abuse or something like that. But it could also be a physical trauma. So a car accident or an illness. In my case, I think it was just too many years living in a stressful environment. I worked at a really, really stressful job. I managed the call center for a software company. And after just enough years of all that stress, I think that was kind of my trauma. So it's not necessarily the childhood adverse experiences, right? It's not necessarily your ACE score, but there is some kind of trauma that has happened to you physically, emotionally. There is Absolutely, that connection.

That connection.

Yeah.

Can you then share, um, your experience with fibromyalgia for our listeners who are unsure if they're experiencing chronic pain or if they're developing fibromyalgia? And what are some of those very early signs and symptoms that you were aware of or you developed, um, that then led to fibromyalgia, that then led to that distinction? Because that can be confusing, can't it? That someone will go, oh, I've got chronic pain, it's absolutely debilitating. And someone else would go, yeah, but I've got fibro.

That's it.

It's like, hey, right, you don't know what pain is until you've got fibro.

Oh man, no kidding. So I really started experiencing, uh, symptoms in my late 20s, early 30s. Like I said, I, I ran the support department for a software company, and, um, you know, it was, it was a lot of stress. And I remember so many days sitting at my desk and thinking, if I could just close that door and turn off the lights and lay down on the floor, I would be out, right? So that kind of pointed to that fatigue and that unrefreshing sleep.

Mm-hmm.

I used to also tell, uh, my employees that if they didn't write it down, it didn't exist. Like, just telling me something was not enough. They needed to email me, they needed to write me, you know, on a piece of paper.

Mm-hmm.

Like, that brain fog was so high that it was, it was as if these things never happened. And I also was starting to experience some pain. And, you know, I think what happens for so many of us, it kind of creeps up gradually and we don't really realize, I'm in my early 30s, I should not feel like this at the end of the day, right? I had chronic headaches, I had IBS, I had like just all these things. And every time I went to the doctor, and this is the part that will clue you in that maybe you are dealing with fibromyalgia, Because every time I went to the doctor and they ran a test or they did an x-ray or whatever it is, everything always came back normal. Oh God, don't you hate that? Right? I mean, you know, they, they checked for rheumatoid arthritis, they checked for lupus, they did the MRI to, you know, check my brain, like all the things. Everything always came back normal. And it wasn't until I had a doctor who was actually trained in fibromyalgia that I actually got my diagnosis. That is very normal. I've heard numbers like 5 or more doctors in 5 or more years to finally get a diagnosis. That's about where I was before I finally got that diagnosis. And to put all of this in context, the first medication that was approved here in the U.S. for the treatment of fibromyalgia did not come out until 2007.

Wow.

Oh, so think about it. If you have a doctor, like, you know, your average middle-aged doctor that you go see, if they've been in practice 17 years, they graduated before this medication even existed. So when they graduated, there was nothing, quote unquote, that we could do for fibromyalgia. So just to, you know, put all of that in context, I was actually diagnosed in 2007. Lyrica was that first medication. It was one of the meds that I went on. But if I had been diagnosed earlier, that option wouldn't have even existed. So this— even though fibro has been around forever, this lack of knowledge and education is a real problem. Doctors just really aren't taught how to treat fibromyalgia effectively, and depending on how long ago they went through med school, they might not have been taught at all, right? Mm-hmm. This is really the biggest challenge when people are diagnosed, is how do we then find the help that we need? So you've got to have somebody on your team who knows something. That may be your doctor, it may not be your doctor. I serve that— I kind of fill that hole for a lot of my clients. But in my case, I did have a good doctor. I think my first appointment, I left her office with You know, 3 or 4 prescriptions and a list of supplements to buy, you know, all these things. And after 2 years of doing all of that, nothing had really changed.

Wow.

It kept me from getting worse, but it didn't actually help me get better. So at that point, end of 2008, beginning of 2009, I went to my doctor and I'm like, look, this is, this is not how I want my life to go. There's gotta be something better we can do here. And that's when she introduced me to the health coach that worked in her office. And for me, that was, that was the big turning point because I was now finally able to start doing some of those more practical lifestyle type changes. Right? Like working on my sleep routine, my sleep habits, thinking about, you know, living within my energy budget, my energy envelope, right? Pacing, uh, all of those kinds of things. I now had somebody that could actually help me through that. Things like trying going gluten-free, right? Having somebody I could talk to to say, okay, now how the heck am I gonna do this?

Right?

Mm-hmm. So that for me was really The magic turning point was having that coach on my team. But to be fair, there was a lot of stuff that we did, right? We discovered that I had an autoimmune thyroid condition. I have Hashimoto's. So we treated that. We discovered that I have upper airway resistance syndrome, which is similar to sleep apnea. So I got treatment for that. We found a bunch of, you know, abnormalities in, you know, different levels of nutrients, right? Like B vitamins, vitamin D, iron. You know, all of those things. I use chiropractic, acupuncture. Since I'm talking to somebody in Australia, I had Bowen work. Most people here in the US don't know what the heck that is.

Oh, they don't?

It's a type of bodywork, but that for me was magical. Um, you know, all of those things were a piece of the puzzle, but without the coach's help, I couldn't really Manage all of that.

Absolutely. It's a lot.

It is. It's a lot, a lot.

Absolutely. Tammy, I'm really curious still to know though what kept you pushing through, because like you were saying, the medication didn't come out until— what was it you said?

2007.

Until 2007. So fibromyalgia wasn't really known or understood Before that.

Yep.

So you obviously were having your symptoms before that. What kept you pushing through and not accepting that, uh, it could just be chronic pain or you could just have, um, you know, some other kind of condition? And how did you know that it then was fibromyalgia?

Yeah, so, you know, I've been looking for answers my whole life. And, you know, I, I'm the kind of person that was always reading the books and doing the research and like all the things. And it wasn't until I read about fibromyalgia myself that like all the bells were ringing, right? That— and I became convinced myself that this was likely what I had. So there was a certain amount of keep pushing until I found somebody that actually knew what fibromyalgia was and could say yes or no. Because most of the people that I talked to before that didn't really know, so I didn't really trust their answer, right? So there was a certain amount of that, but I think the more important thing for me is that— I don't know, there is just something deep within me I know I can figure out any problem, whatever that problem is. It doesn't matter if I'm trying to like fix my website or do my podcast or figure out fibromyalgia. Like, I know I can figure this out, or I can find somebody who can teach me, or somebody else to do the work, right? Maybe I hire somebody. But whatever it is, like, I can— I, I pretty much feel like I could solve just about any problem. So I kept going, you know, kept trying to figure it out and really took every little bit of information, every little bit of improvement, every tiny little thing, and just kind of collected them all, right? So I think that's one of the things that makes me different from a lot of the people out there. I was never looking for one magic bullet. I was looking for a collection of things that would work, right? There is never going to be just one thing that is going to fix your fibromyalgia. But if you find enough little things, you can add up to 100%, right?

Yes.

And that attitude, I think, of, of looking for the little things and then just One of the other big mindset shifts that I don't think I could have done it without this, but was really realizing that our bodies are amazing things, right? My body wants to heal. My body wants to feel good.

Yes.

And if I can support her in doing that, that's what she's made to do. And so shifting from, you know, there's me on the inside of this stupid body that has fibromyalgia and doesn't work right, Shifting that attitude to me and my body, we're on the same team. Maybe fibromyalgia is the enemy, maybe it's not even the enemy. I don't think it is. But coming to work with myself instead of in spite of myself or against myself, that was a huge change too.

Ah, I love that message. I love it because it's so true. I really don't like it when people say, I'm going to fight this, because to fight it, you actually have to fight against yourself because you have it. It's more about acknowledging it, owning it in the sense of, I'm going to do something about this, and then find all the resources, anyone who can help, and then whoever, and then learning to advocate. When I do some looking around on social media before this interview, I was quite taken aback at the hundreds of what they call fibromyalgia warriors, they call themselves. And they all talk about how challenging it is to actually get that diagnosis. And, you know, they, they say, I'm not being heard. Um, they think that I— it's all in my head, I'm exaggerating, I'm being a drama queen or a hypochondriac. So it's obviously quite challenging to get that diagnosis, and we've heard about what treatment you've done. So what can treatment look like? What can you say to people? It's not in your head. Keep pushing. If if this doctor is not listening to you, you know they're obviously not trained in it. Go to someone else. So what can treatment look like for them? What's what's their first step? Like we we heard that you went to a doctor. The doctor. said go to this coach. But if you don't have a doctor that says go to this coach, because, right, you know, then you're lost. You feel lost.

Yeah.

What is, what is some things that they can do and what can that treatment look like for them? Because it sounds like it's, it's a treatment that has many aspects to it. Like fibromyalgia sounds like it's got many moving parts to it. It's not just one straight road. It's— you've got to address that. So what, what can you encourage our listeners to do?

Yes, I love this question because you're right. I mean, getting a diagnosis is hard. Finding a doctor that knows what to do with you, it is hard. So the first, very first thing you have to realize is that it is on you. You can't be the doctor, obviously. But you need to be absolutely the best educated patient you can be. So learn all you can. Um, I— is it okay if I give people my book? So go get a copy of my book.

Absolutely.

You can go to takebackyourlifebook.com and you can get a free copy of my book. Um, read all you can. There are a bunch of really great resources out there. You need to be the most educated patient person that you can be because your doctor may or may not be, and you need to first of all know if they are, and second of all know what your options are. So that's, that's the first thing when it comes to having somebody on your team who can fill that role as an expert. Obviously, I highly recommend having a coach, particularly a certified fibromyalgia coach, because that's what we do. That's what we know. But if that's not an option for you, then here's a couple of steps, a couple of things that I would look at. When I'm working with clients, first and foremost, I want everybody to have a sleep study. If you haven't had a sleep study in the last 2 years, let's say, I want you to get another one done. And that's because almost 50%— 5-0— 50% of all fibromyalgia patients have sleep apnea. Compare that to 2% of the normal population. If your doctor doesn't understand this about fibromyalgia, then they may not be referring you because it's not that common in the regular population. But in fibromyalgia, flip a coin, yes or no, right? So go get a sleep study done. You need to have somebody take a look at your thyroid labs and your adrenal function. Not just TSH. That's like a whole nother, like, whole podcast episode on thyroid stuff. But, uh, there's almost always something going on with thyroid with, with fibromyalgia. You also need to, like, take control of your own energy, right? So you get to decide how you want to spend it. Really be— I, I call it a really practical kind of mindfulness, but be mindful of your choices. How are you choosing to spend your energy? Maybe that means you hire somebody to clean your house. Maybe that means you choose not to have it as clean as you would like it, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, you have to make choices and you have to begin living within your energy budget. I tell people, try to only spend about 80% of your energy because your body actually needs energy to heal. So if you spend 80%, then you've still got 20% that your body can use. But if you're Spending every last bit of energy and you're collapsing at night with like nothing left, your body can't heal itself.

Hmm.

Right? So, so that's a biggie. There's a bunch of suggestions in my book, tips and things that you can do on your own to kind of figure out what your energy budget is and begin to live with it. But I think, you know, those, those few things, your sleep, your thyroid and adrenals, you know, all in there. I would also include like any other nutritional deficiencies, Things like that, making sure your vitamin D, your iron, all of those things I mentioned, that those are all good. And then start working on your self-management. I would say that there's quite a lot of people that benefit from things like going gluten-free or dairy-free or cutting out sugar. That really helped me at the beginning. I'll be completely honest, I do not follow any of that now. But for some people—

Hallelujah! That is huge.

So, you know, um, and really like take the approach that this is a science experiment, right? You're going to try things. They may work, they may not work, but they will always tell you something, right? So if you try something and it doesn't work, make a note of it. If you try it and it does work, keep doing it and look for the next thing. that you can try that's going to help. And, you know, make note of this stuff. We can't hold it all in our heads. I think that's also where, you know, having a coach is super helpful, because when you're in the midst of it, it's hard to analyze and, you know, figure out those kinds of things. But somebody from the outside can, can see that maybe a little bit better. But that will get you a long way down the road. And at a certain point, you, you will need Like, you can only go so far on your own. You'll need a good doctor, and you'll need somebody who really understands fibromyalgia. This is one condition where you almost always are going to need medication, at least for a while.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe not forever. I mean, I'm not taking anything for my fibromyalgia anymore, but I did leave the doctor's office with a handful of scripts, right? So, you know, we might need help with sleep. You might need, You know, whatever it is, be open to that. You might need pain meds to break the pain cycle. Be open to taking medication so that eventually you cannot take medication. You don't get gold stars if you white-knuckle it through life.

Yeah, that's, that's great because it sounds like it's so multi-dimensional that it can be so overwhelming for someone who has just walked out Um, a doctor's office has been prescribed, like you're saying, the necessary medication to start getting them through, to be able to at least cope with life. Exactly.

But then what?

You know, like you were saying, so if they, if they don't have a fibromyalgia coach, can, can you talk us through specifically What you did to put yourself in remission and what that kind of looked like daily, so someone can start breaking down daily. I can do this and it'll help because I've seen a lot of people, uh, and again on social media, how they're on their yoga mat and they're stretched. They've been told by their physio or, um, physical rehabilitation person to stretch out their muscles.

Hmm.

But there doesn't seem to be anything else that they've been told. So like, yeah, like what you're saying, it's, it's a collection. So yeah, still, yeah, what, what you did specifically— I know it's different for everyone, we're all individual— but what did you do specifically to put yourself in remission?

Yeah, great question. And you know, to be honest This is not something that happened quickly. I was diagnosed in 2007. So, you know, here we are 17 years later. I've been in remission for quite a few years, but I would say it took me, I don't know, maybe 8 years to get here, 9 years. So what I did absolutely changed over time, but I will focus on the very beginning because that's probably where you are as you're listening to this.

Hmm.

The first few things that I did is I did go gluten-free. In the long run, I haven't needed to be gluten-free, but I definitely think it made a difference at the beginning. I also focused on making sure I got enough protein. So somebody with fibromyalgia should be having at least 80 to 100 grams of protein in a day. And so if you're not somebody like me who really likes meat— that can be a little bit difficult. So maybe track your protein intake for a while, see where you're at.

Yeah.

So I really focused on making sure I got enough protein, and I did try going gluten-free. The other thing that I did is, is I took pain meds. I went on pain meds. I took Tramadol, I took Lyrica, I was on Cymbalta. They all work in different ways on pain. And I did that to sort of get the pain under control. So that also, so that I could go out and do those other things, right? Like, making dinner is hard if you're in a lot of pain, but if you can take some meds and then you can go make dinner, then that gives your body better building blocks to, you know, to work with, right?

Mm-hmm.

So, um, I definitely did that. I worked really, really hard on my sleep, um, both the sleep study but also just my sleep habits. It's going to bed at the same time every night, getting up, getting bright light in the morning. So all of these little things. Like I mentioned earlier, uncovering all that other stuff. So discovering that I do have autoimmune thyroid and then getting the treatment that I needed for that. I discovered that I had adrenal dysfunction. So that was also part of what I was doing with my sleep was helping to heal my adrenals. Little tip for you, if you have adrenal dysfunction, the best sleep you'll ever get is between 7 and 9 AM. So sleep in if you can. So I worked really hard on that. What else did I do? Oh, I started regularly going to the chiropractor. I went to the chiropractor about once a week, and then I would swap out between acupuncture and massage. That's when I was getting Bowen work. So I'd have acupuncture one week Massage the next week, but chiropractic every week. I've just kind of keep putting my body back together. So a lot of that, and then like I said, that practical mindfulness. So I actually still to this day will use a step counter to sort of help me in a in a broad way know how much energy I'm spending. It's not perfect, right? You and I sitting here talking. This takes energy, but we're not— we have no steps. But in general, for most of life, steps equals energy. So I started paying attention to how many steps is it to go to the grocery store? How many steps is it to go to the movies? How many steps is it to walk around freaking Costco, right? So I kind of had an idea, and I also figured out what my number of steps were for each day where I felt good, and then that just became my budget for the day. So I kind of use a step counter backwards. Instead of trying to reach a certain number, I'm trying to stay under a certain number.

Oh. Right?

I think of budgeting energy or steps like budgeting money. This is how much I have to spend for today. I can't go over. So that was a big piece for me to have a more concrete way of knowing, am I overdoing it or not? Because it's so easy to know you overdid it When you can't get out of bed.

Right.

So that really helped my fatigue, helped my, you know, my energy. It also helped my pain levels because I wasn't pushing so hard. I really made it a focus to rest. And really, one of the, one of the things I kept telling myself is It's not that I'm not doing nothing. I'm resting. Like, resting is a thing that you do, right? It's not the thing that happens when you're not doing something else. So get your rest.

Everybody's so— everyone feels so guilty about taking time out, having like resting the body. We just keep pushing through.

Yep. Yep. And I spent a lot of time. I always forget this that I did this, but I spent a lot of time journaling. I did a lot of writing out, you know, just kind of processing what this change in my life meant, right? Like how my life had changed, what it means to live in a fibro body, and really just getting to know the new me so well. I think probably, you know, obviously there's a ton of things that I did over 10 years, right?

Right.

But the biggest thing, if I could like summarize it down to a thing, I got really, really good at knowing how different things would make me feel. If I do this, I'll feel this way. If I feel this way and I do this, then I'll feel better or worse, right? So I really got really good at listening to my body. And knowing, is this something that's gonna help or is this something that's gonna hurt? And I tried to shift my focus to, you know, the world does not revolve around fibromyalgia. You can read my bio, you see the F word everywhere, the fibromyalgia word everywhere. But my world does not revolve around fibromyalgia. My world revolves around feeling good, getting better. My world revolves around my healing. So every decision that I made Was, is this going to help me feel better or is this going to make me feel worse? Am I moving towards better or am I moving towards worse? And so my mantra at the very beginning was, if I might follow my plan today, I'll feel better tomorrow. Forget about 5 years from now, who even knows? But if I do what I need to do today, then tomorrow will be better. And if you string enough of those together—

Yeah.

You're making positive progress, right?

That sounds amazing because it's actually— you're talking about a collection of steps. It's not just if I stretch today, I'm going to feel better tomorrow. If I just get off gluten, well, there's my Holy Grail, I'm going to be better. It's about doing many things in like every day, those small steps, and understanding the old thing of getting back in touch with our bodies, listening to our intuition of what works for us. Because I guess, like yourself, you know, you sought out many people and you went to many people, but you really had to come back to self to be the leader and the guide of what is working. You can see many people and they can, they can tell you, and they're a professional opinion of what they think will work, but—

Absolutely.

Does it work for you?

Right, right. And, and is it, is it, again, is it helping me feel better? Is it making me feel worse? Or is it doing nothing? Right. And, and you are the only person who can really make that judgment. I mean, there's some caveats there too, right? Like, you've got to follow the protocols properly. You've got to give it enough time to work, like things like that. But ultimately, you're the, you're the only one who lives in your body, right? So you're the only one who's really going to know. And there were a lot of things that I tried that were just okay that I didn't keep on board, right? So some— and every day is different. That's one of the challenges with fibromyalgia too, is that not only is each individual different, but each individual's days moment to moment is different. So one day maybe stretching is awesome But on another day, it might be the thing that puts you into a flare.

Mm.

Right? Which is both crazy-making. I mean, let's just be honest here, right? Like, oh my goodness, how do you even know? But that's where that listening to your body part comes in, right? Because at the stage that I'm at, having done this as long as I have, being in remission now, working so hard at it, I know on a day-to-day basis if that stretching is going to help or hurt because of how I feel, because of what else is going on, right? And it takes time to get there. It takes time and practice. I think that's— you're not going to do it perfectly. There's going to be trial and error. And that's just like, that's how it works. If you're trying things and it doesn't work, you're doing it right.

That is so inspiring, Tammy, for people, you know, because part of— well, a lot of this show is about, um, education so our listeners can become a very informed self-advocate.

Yes.

Can you, in your opinion and from your experience, what, what's one of the best approaches when seeking help from doctors and other care providers for someone to advocate for themselves? What are some of the best things that they can ask for? How can they advocate for themselves properly, um, you know, speak up for their needs and know and feel self-assured that what they're saying from what they're feeling is true and not to have it diminished?

Oh, so good. So I think there's a few things here. Um, first of all, just have that confidence. There is nobody else living inside your body with you, and if there is, you need a different kind of help. But your, your doctor doesn't know what it feels like in your body. Your doctor is not there every single moment. You absolutely are the expert on you. So own that, believe that.

I love that.

Having said that though, there is good and bad ways maybe to approach your doctor about different things. If you go in there and, you know, try to be the expert on everything, that's just going to like create friction, make it hard for them to listen to you. I mean, they are the ones that went to medical school. Even if you know more about fibromyalgia than they do, they do know something.

Right.

So going in with this, uh, this idea of partnership, right? So it might be something like, you know, I heard this podcast and they talked about this, and, you know, is it possible to go get a sleep study? Versus going in and saying, I heard I'm supposed to have a sleep study, right? So, so acknowledging their expertise and going in as a A partner, uh, is great. It's also really important, like, you do not have to accept bad doctors, right? I honestly, I feel like we need to treat doctors a little bit more like we treat restaurants. If you have a bad experience, post a bad review, don't go back, right? Just because they're wearing the white coat does not mean— like, they are not gods. They are just normal people, and You know, if it's not a good experience, find somebody else. I promise there will be somebody. Even if you're in a small town, you can probably find another option. But you don't have to go back to to a bad doctor. And what I mean by bad doctor is not necessarily somebody that doesn't understand fibromyalgia or whatever your condition is. I'm talking about basic human. Like, do they listen to you? Do they believe you when you tell them something? You deserve to have a doctor that says, "If you feel that, I believe you," right? And not, "Are you sure? I don't think it's as bad as you think it is." Like, no, no, no, no, no. They should respect you, right? They should respect you as a human being. They should listen to your input. They should treat you as a partner. That's the doctor that you're looking for. Because if you have that doctor who listens, believes you, respects you, treats you as a partner, you can bring in resources that can educate your doctor, right? There are lots of materials out there on the internet. There's books that you can bring in. You know, there's a lot of things you can do to educate your doctor, but only if you start with a doctor who's got those basic things in place. So, you know, understand that you deserve that. And, uh, you know, yeah.

And I, I think that is also warranted for— even though this podcast does share about alternative practices, it also is around that as well, because you could be going— any provider, any provider, any provider— because someone could say, oh, you're not stretching right, you're not stretching far enough, you're not, you No, you have to be able to feel confident to say, I hear what you're saying, and when I do what you are asking me to do, it intensifies my pain, etc. And if they're not listening to you, well then, even if they're at— they are an alternative provider, you need to find someone else.

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, they— I've gone to a lot of different chiropractors over the years, and this is just such a good example. And the office that I'm going to right now, there's several different doctors in that office. There are some doctors that I won't see, not because they're not very nice people and very good chiropractors. My body just doesn't— whatever their technique is, my body just does not respond in the same way. And it's, it's easy to, to just like get sucked into seeing the same person, but you have options. And it, again, it doesn't matter if this is an MD, your yoga instructor, your physical therapist, your chiropractor. Like, it doesn't matter who it is. You are the expert on your body. And if this is not helping you feel better and they're not listening to you, you've got to find somebody else. You've got to.

Yeah, it's having the strength and the belief and the level of self-worth that you deserve the best, because your health will be where it is due to where you believe it deserves to be.

Mm-hmm.

So you need to be able to have, you know, you really— I mean, if anyone can listen to you, you're so inspiring to understand that your self-worth, self-advocacy is what's going to help you get a better result. Now, if we can go circle back to what you were saying about partnering with— you're partnering with the doctor, and it's that collaborative approach. So what does it look like for someone to partner with you? What— with your work, you know, what, what is, uh, what you do going to help them move the needle?

Yeah. Yes, I like that. So working with a coach, working with me, one of the coaches that I've trained, taking one of my classes, the biggest thing here is that we're here as, as a resource. When you hire me, you are hiring me to help you get better. So sometimes that means I might tell you to do things you don't want to do because maybe what you want to do is actually not going to help you get better, right? So I am 100% on your side and not colored by like what I want to do or not. This is all about you, but I am going to help you towards the goal that you have set. Now, having said that, you of course are the expert on you. So I'm like the, I don't know, the library, I guess, of fibro knowledge, but you bring yourself. And so you might have questions like, where do I start? And I might ask you a bunch of questions like, okay, well, there's, you mentioned this to me, you mentioned this, this, this, which one of those feels like where you might like to start? Right? We are, I'm never setting goals For you. You're setting goals, you're deciding where we go. I just give you all the resources and then the additional accountability and occasional kick in the rear to, you know, keep you going in that direction. But you're the one who's doing all the hard work. You're the one who's deciding what you work on, and you're the one who's, who's setting your goals. It's really quite a dance back and forth. Because of course you don't have every— all the knowledge that you need. You don't have everything you need to be able to do this, or you would have by now, right? Like, there's something that you're missing. And whether that's information I'm giving you, or accountability, or helping you think of things in a different way, support— like, there's so many things that it could be. And most of my clients need all of it at some point or another.

Absolutely.

You know, yep. So it's, it's like I said, it's, it's quite a dance, but usually everything is played off of your real life. So we start a coaching call with, you know, what happened this last week. Let's say you ended up in a big flare. We would take a look at that and analyze that and think, could we have done anything different? If yes, we'll put that towards the next time it happens. If no, We accept that that's just how it was.

Hmm.

Right? And again, looking forward, what's coming up in this next week? Are there things that I can help you plan for, strategize for, prepare for a doctor's appointment, start implementing things maybe a doctor has told you to do, whatever it might be, find a new therapy, connect you to a new provider, whatever it might be, and plan towards that. So using your real life and my lens for how do we walk through life in a fibro-friendly way, you know, that kind of, um, that, that then over time will, will shift for you. Sometimes it's as easy as like, okay, let's get you, let's get you into a sleep study. Here's how you have the conversation with your doctor. Here's what you need. You know, sometimes it's a big thing like that. But sometimes it's just, oh, okay, next time I'm gonna do this a little bit differently.

Um, can you just quickly share a case study of someone who had fibro, came to you, went through and did everything you said, and is now in remission? And what did that look like? Wow. Yeah.

Yes. So remission is hard, um, and I don't know if I say that any of my clients are fully in remission, um, because that's— I can't even say that anyway. Their doctor would have to say that. That's a, that's a medical term.

Yes.

But I do have a lot of people who are so much better and out there living their lives now. So one person that comes to mind, um, Deb in New Zealand. I can use her name and where she's from because she just was on my podcast sharing this. just a week or two ago.

Oh.

But she, when she came to me, she had other kinds of chronic pain before she ever developed fibromyalgia. And when she came, she actually started working with one of my coaches first and then decided she wanted to become a coach and took some of my training programs. Over the time that we have worked together, she has improved her fibromyalgia I don't know. I think it was something like 68% improvement on her symptoms, and you know it was it was little bit by little bit. It was okay. Let's go have this test done. Okay, I'm gonna give myself permission to let this thing go. I'm going to change my hours at work. I'm going to you know so it's like all these little things. Over time, and it definitely has added up for her. She is now a coach herself. She's now working with clients, and she's like, "I never thought that I could be this much better," and life is very different now. So you know, it's it's there's a lot of people like that. What everybody did is different.

Right.

Because each person had their own, you know, we had to fix the things that were going wrong in their bodies, whatever that was— nutritional deficiencies, sleep studies, whatever. We had to change their mindset in different ways, and then they had to implement various lifestyle changes, whether that's, you know, having a sleep routine or going gluten-free or, you know, whatever it is. Those 3 things are really like the, the 3 legs of the stool that we have to address to really get better, you know.

Yeah.

Addressing what's, what's going wrong in your body, the mindset shifts, and then the lifestyle changes. And I will say that, you know, the students that, that graduate from my Certified Fibromyalgia Advisor class on average are able to improve their fibromyalgia symptoms by about 50% in just It is huge.

That is huge because that's the goal for most people that have fibromyalgia or any condition, is they want to get back to their former life, or even at least similar to their former life. I want to be, you know, be able to live their days in—

And to be fair, sometimes we can't go exactly back to that life, but we can make a new life That is just as awesome, right? It might look a little different, but you deserve to have a life that you want to live. Like, that's the point.

Absolutely. Which actually brings me to, what message would you like to leave our listeners with today?

Oh goodness, yes. So really, like, the first thing is fibromyalgia is real. So if you, you know, there's really things going wrong in your body, it's not all in your head, it's a real thing. So that's the first. The second is, in spite of what you may have heard from your doctor or other places, fibromyalgia is very treatable, very treatable. You just have to find the right resources, get the right information, and get the right support to be able to actually do that. And then last, you can feel better. You can feel better. Can you be in remission like me? Maybe, maybe not. I, I couldn't say that, but I deeply, deeply believe that every single person, including Rita, including me, we all can feel better than we do right now. And we just need to add all those little betters together. I love that.

What a beautiful message. And honestly, for our listeners who do have fibromyalgia or think that they may be developing fibromyalgia, really get the help you need to put those pieces together. All of Tammy's details— her website, her socials, her book, the name of her podcast Listen, read, contact. Do yourself the favor. The information is there. The help is there. You don't have to go it alone. Tammy's here to help. Everything will be in the show notes. Contact her, please. Tammy, it's been an absolute pleasure. I love having you on this podcast today sharing this information. There are so many people who are struggling with fibromyalgia, and I do believe that they're going to take away some golden nuggets from this episode today.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.