Why Do Conventional Fertility Treatments Fail — And What Root-Cause Approach Works Instead?

Have you ever been told your labs define your fertility and felt like hope was slipping away? Today we're exploring why those numbers don't tell the full story and what you can do to take back control of your fertility journey. Today's guest is Dr. Ummatma Simmons, a double board-certified naturopathic endocrinologist who is changing the way we think about fertility. Welcome to the show, Dr. Omama.

Thank you so much for having me, Rita. It's good to be here.

Oh, it's good to have you. And while fertility is such a personal journey, it can be so heartbreaking for so many couples. We usually think women, but it's actually couples. And I read that, you know, the fertility issue is around 1 in 6 and increasing. That's a staggering number. And it is most people just go, okay, I've been told I'm infertile, so I'm gonna try IVF. Hundreds of thousands of dollars don't necessarily sometimes get the result they want. So, Dr. Umar, do the labs really tell us the whole story about what's happening with our fertility?

No, I think that most labs are On the surface level, a lot of them are done at the wrong time in people's cycles. So because women are cycling and most doctors just say, oh, go do these labs, they don't often say do them on a specific day. You are getting apples and oranges in comparison to what would be an accurate time for testing. These hormones. And then to add to all of that, going to what you just said about 1 in 6 couples struggling, that number and the diagnosis, quote unquote, of infertility is only given based on one criteria, which is, have you been trying to conceive for a 12-month period of time?

Mm-hmm.

And if in that 12 months you've been unsuccessful, then you have a diagnosis, quote unquote, of infertility. So it's really, uh, it's one of the only things that I know that can— you can get a diagnosis for without any kind of lab testing. So a doctor gives you this label that you're infertile, but has done zero testing. And then when they actually do the testing, they're doing it at the wrong time of your cycle. They don't honestly know how to interpret the data. And then unfortunately, most of the couples get, well, your only option is going to IVF. And most of that is actually based on your age, not on your labs. So no one is actually looking at your data. They're just saying, oh, you're 30s. You should probably go for IVF because it's assumed that your fertility is low because of your age. So fertility is like this weird, weird soup where I think too many couples get lost because no one is actually giving guidance based on, let's look at what's happening for you as a couple. Let's try to understand the numbers. And let's test both of you, not just the woman. Let's test him as well. And let's get a full picture of what's going on. But that happens very, very infrequently. And I, over the years, I've worked with several thousand couples. And the number one thing is that most people did not come in with labs.

Hmm.

that were even done on the right day. So I look at those labs and I say, wow, these look really not so good. When were these done? Assuming that they're done on the right cycle day. And they'll be like, oh, I don't know, some random day in my cycle. And I'm like, oh, okay, let's dial this back. Let's figure out what's happening on cycle day 3 is where I usually like to evaluate.

Okay.

So cycle day 2, 3, or 4 is good enough. And if it's not done in that window of time, you really have a very big variance of hormones. And what looks like a normal lab for one might be very different normal for another woman on a different cycle day. So we really need that like baseline of hormones.

Mm-hmm.

It just—

as you were talking, I was thinking how many women have had not a test done, the wrong test, just been told just because you haven't fallen pregnant within 12 months of continuously having unprotected sex, that you're now infertile, and then go and either adopt or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on IVF yet. They may have been able to conceive. I wouldn't like to say— yeah, I'm going to say it sounds a bit criminal in a way, you know, to take that away from somebody because the proper preliminary work wasn't done. Yeah.

And, you know, like, I truly believe that when someone has a diagnosis, they really take that identity on, right? It becomes part of your identity. Like, oh, I have Hashimoto's, I have XYZ. And it becomes part of who you are. And infertile is such a final diagnosis. Like, it sounds like if it is a forever thing that can't be changed.

Yes.

Where in fact, we really should be renaming that subfertility, or, hey, it's a challenge to get pregnant. That doesn't mean you will never get pregnant. It just means Something is going on that's causing a harder struggle for you specifically and for you as a couple.

The danger of actually— it's good to acknowledge and accept that you may have something, and that way you can motivate yourself to do something about it. But when you actually take such a deep ownership of it that it— you integrate it into who you are as a person, that's where it can become Challenging for you. So yeah, I, I'm right there with you on that particular one. People have done their labs, they may have the wrong labs, they've come to you, and even if they have less than perfect labs, they still have a real chance of conceiving naturally because you look at what specifically and when specifically, so someone can actually come informed if they see you.

Yeah. So we are wanting to test on cycle day 2, 3, or 4. The basic fertility hormones. And those are follicle stimulating hormone, or FSH, estradiol, LH, which is luteinizing hormone, and AMH, which is anti-Müllerian hormone. So we have these like 4 hormones. We can add a 5th one, which is prolactin. We could add thyroid. But if we have those primary 4, Mm-hmm. we can at least assess Hey, this woman has enough of a chance to conceive, and then we can go deeper and figure out, okay, what's actually keeping her from conceiving? Or we can say, unfortunately, like, maybe this is not the route for you, and we need to think about what other options you might have. And those labs almost always— are not, they're not necessarily going to say, hey, you need IVF. Almost none of those labs actually say you need IVF.

Wow.

IVF is a much later process based on, of like kind of a complex scenario where we have addressed all the root causes. The hormones are actually in a relatively awesome optimized state.

Wow.

Yet maybe the sperm are not quite where they wanna be, or there's an immunological issue. Those are all very great times to bring IVF in, but it shouldn't be cycle after cycle after cycle of IVF. Most of our clients who have done the work to begin with, need maybe 1 or 2 cycles. They don't need 6 cycles of IVF. So you can really crunch down the time, the investment in these treatments that you're spending. But really, you're looking at your body from a whole person perspective and you're saying, okay, what is in the way? If we assume that infertility, quote unquote, is not what's happening, And that infertility is actually a diagnosis, uh, it's actually not a diagnosis but a symptom, right? So we're reframing it from, hey, this is your label, this is your diagnosis, to saying, hey, this is actually a symptom that your body is trying not to get pregnant for some reason. And there's almost always a reason. So About 30% of couples that get diagnosed with infertility are unexplained infertility, which means doctors don't understand why they have this diagnosis. And I would venture to guess that a majority of them just are getting this diagnosis again based on, we can't figure, we don't see anything in your labs. We don't. understand what's happening. You just need to try IVF. And that's the extent of analysis that's been done. And I jokingly say this to almost everyone, even I have some very young couples that are surprised that they're given this diagnosis. And they're like, what does it mean? How come I'm getting this diagnosis? So they'll find me and they'll say, well, what can we do? And I'll say, okay, you guys seem— and I've said this many times, like, you guys seem super healthy. Your surface-level labs actually look really good. So on the surface, I would agree you have unexplained infertility, quote unquote. But I have not yet found a couple that we cannot figure out why they're not getting pregnant. And there's almost always a reason. So I'm still waiting for that couple that I can be like, yeah, you actually have unexplained infertility. I have done every analysis that I can and I still don't know the answer. But that actually doesn't exist. It hasn't happened yet.

Yeah.

And I've been doing this for 15 years. So I don't actually believe that that's a diagnosis that we can rest our head on. But we, if we really look at infertility as just a symptom, it's our body saying, hey, something is out of whack and I do not feel safe enough to reproduce.

Mm.

And, and at the same time, humanity wants to reproduce, right? Like we as a species want to survive on this planet. So reproduction is a very Innate thing that is going to exist. So if it's not happening, there's almost always a reason why it's not happening. So that's why I've shifted from this idea that we have a diagnosis to we really have a symptom. And if we don't figure out why that symptom is showing up, then we can't do anything about it. But if we understand the why, then we can do a lot about it.

Gee, in 15 years you haven't come across one person? That gives hope to so many. And also to so many who had their hope taken away would think, geez, you know, I could have been that person. So if they, if they've got a lab test and they haven't got all those markers on it that you described, well, then they know that it's not a full picture for them.

And that's— Mm-hmm.

Their first clue that this isn't over for them.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I, I absolutely agree with you when you say, you know, I think it's beautiful the way you described it's just a symptom. Your body's just not feeling safe to be able to reproduce until something else is corrected. In that 15 years, what sort of root causes or underlying health conditions have been You know, impact our ability to conceive?

So I'll say one is the same for everyone, which is the lifestyle factors. And they're different. I mean, there are different factors for everyone, right? Like some people are going to smoke, some people are drinking, some people are not sleeping. There's all kinds of reasons, but almost always there's a component of the lifestyle that we are not living in alignment with our optimal state or our optimal health.

Mm.

And if we help support that optimal fertile state is what we call it, then health and fertility are just going to be a byproduct of it. So that's the first step. Lifestyle is almost across the board going to need to be addressed. And some people come to us and they're like, well, I'm not changing that part of my lifestyle. Okay, then we probably shouldn't work together. So it's, it's a really—

Incredible, isn't it? What people aren't prepared to give up for what they want.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy. And, and like, we have this couple right now who's 43. The woman is 43. The man is like 43 or 44. And he works, he's a really high-powered C-suite executive who does not sleep more than 3 hours a night. He goes to bed at 3 in the morning, wakes up at 6. He's working nonstop around the clock on his laptop. And there are so many issues with this scenario. Like he doesn't get movement, he doesn't eat well, he doesn't exercise, and he doesn't sleep. So all of the things that his body needs for optimal state of health are not happening. And he's like, but my sperm are fine, right? And I'm like, well, they're not great. They're okay. They like get a D-minus, but they're not quite there. And he, and he just like, for the life of him, cannot figure out how to add time in his day that would allow him to get adequate sleep. If he got some sleep, if he got sunlight, if he got some like 10 minutes of movement a day, We would have some direction towards positive fertility. So for that couple, it's incredible to me because they are kind of at that point where, hey, we're either doing this all in and we're going to get success and results, or this is really not going to work and we're just spinning our wheels. And they just are— Like the abundance of resources and they're like, oh, we're happy to keep paying you, but we're not doing any of the steps. And we're like this close to firing them because—

Firing them right off the bat. You're out of here.

Because you're wasting my time. You're not doing the things that you said you're going to do. Yes. And that's not going to help you get pregnant. And then you're just going to be upset with me because you're not pregnant, but you didn't take the steps. You didn't do the work that we're telling you to do. So lifestyle is an absolute must. The second and like more, more deeper layer, I would say, is related to lifestyle, which is the toxins in our environment, which I talk about endlessly. It's kind of a, if you're talking about fertility, you have to talk about toxins. So we have so many toxins.

Yeah.

So many toxins in our environment that are studied, researched to be reproductive toxins. So the fact that these companies that make our products and make our food and all of that, they are not thinking about the long-term impact of what that food is going to do to a species. We can even think about Monsanto, which is—

Monsanto.

Uh, um, like a food organization here and what they've done to the seeds, what they've done to the seeds.

Yeah.

And they've created these genetically modified organisms of food that no longer can self-reproduce. So if we're eating that GMO food, what's happening to our fertility? Hmm. Probably not going to have a good effect on our own reproductive abilities. So, like, these foods don't have seeds, so we are not supporting our reproductive abilities. So just things like that that are in our environment that we really should pay attention to and, and like shift as much as we can. And we can get into, if, if you would like, we can get into which toxins and And how to get rid of them and all of that.

That is a big thing in our environment. And it's so interesting that you actually said something about the seeds. My husband was talking about watermelon the other day and he said, I just love it now that there's no seeds. And I said, and I said to him, I actually said to him, but have you ever thought, like, what do they do to the watermelon so it doesn't have seeds? Because when we were kids, one of the fun things was to spit the seeds out. And you even kind of spit the seeds at one another, you know, so they'll stick to the skin. And that was a fun game. And now you get grapes with no seeds, you get watermelon with no seeds. What are they actually doing to that? Like you said, the GMO, so it doesn't have seeds, but what's it doing to our body? We're not, we're not, we're not connecting the dots, are we, Dr. Mahkma?

No, nope. I, I believe that And this is true from Chinese medicine, that if you want to support your fertility, seeds are the way to do it. So there's a whole like therapy that we use called seed cycling, where you're taking a different set of seeds in different parts of your cycle. But essentially seeds in any produce is going to support your fertility because that's the, Seeds have the most, like, potent energy that was meant for you to restore your and support your reproduction. So when you eat seedless food, you no longer have that stimulus going to your reproductive organs saying, hey, we're supporting your reproduction for the future. And it's a very subtle response that you're getting. In each food, right? Like, you can't OD on seeds and all of a sudden you're good. It's really like the over the time. So from the point at which you're a child all the way through adulthood, you're getting this like, there's a seed here, a seed there, a seed there, a seed there, and it's all supporting reproduction. The genetically modified things are definitely And this has been studied separately that the GMO foods are affecting reproduction negatively. So not a great thing. And then the others that I usually pick on, and I say pick on because I feel like I talk about it all the time, there's 3 that are probably the top 3. The first one is plastic. And that's going to be everything that is BPA, BPS, BPF. They're bisphenol compounds that basically mimic estrogen in the body. And when these compounds are in your environment and you're slowly, like, putting them into your body, they're having this, like, weird estrogen effect where your body thinks it has estrogen. It starts acting as if it has estrogen. For men, that's very detrimental because it feedback loops to the brain and shuts off testosterone production. So for men, there's a massive decline in testosterone levels. And I believe that it's coming from a lot of these reproductive toxins in our environment. You know, even, I feel like even some of the healthiest men and women are consuming their Like the— you see the people that go to the gym, they'll have their big jugs of water, but those are plastic jugs. So here they are drinking their gallon of water, but it's been laden with plastic leaching from their bottles. Uh, the plastic is a big one, and we're seeing it from the containers that we store our food in, the containers from takeout from restaurants, the Coffee cups from the local coffee shop or Starbucks, wherever you're going. All of those are heat plus the plastic, which then leaches plastic into the food or drink, which then affects negatively the hormones. So plastic is a big one. The second big one is phthalates. And phthalates are essentially all the things that have perfumes. So— That can be something that smells good that you're using on your body, your lotion, your hair products, your whatever it is that you're putting on that you're like, oh, this smells really good. It's probably got a fragrance that is a phthalate. The way that you can find it on the label is looking for things that say parfum, P-A-R-F-U-M. perfume, perfume, like regular perfume, and then natural fragrance. And all of those are basically code names for phthalates. We get like, even my husband, who is not really super into this field, but he's been, we've been together for so long and he tries his best to like find the natural products and stuff.

Yeah.

And he'll come home with stuff and I'm like, ah, And he's like, what? Seriously? Are you kidding me? I did. I read the label. I'm like, you missed the thing that says natural fragrance. And then you'll find it in stuff like your laundry detergent, your dryer cleaning stuff. Men get it a lot with the little like air freshener things that they like to hang in their cars.

Yes.

So you're like breathing this stuff in. And same thing with phthalates, they affect the same pathway as the bisphenol compounds. So they're as much of a reproductive toxin and detrimental to testosterone levels. So those 2. And then the 3rd one is glyphosate. And glyphosate is a funny one. Funny, like Monsanto was a paper that I wrote in 8th grade.

Oh, wow.

About how bad Monsanto is for our food supply and our food system. So Monsanto created Roundup, which is basically made of glyphosate, and it's this thing that they spray as a pesticide on food that's growing. So if you're eating non-organic food, you're often going to get pesticides and glyphosate in your Gut. That— the impact of that is it kills the microbes in your gut, which are super important to hormones, nutrients, nutrient absorption, food digestion, neurotransmitter production. So you're hitting almost every system. And then your microbes are actually your immune system in your gut.

Hmm.

So if you kill the microbes that are protecting your immune function, then the likelihood that you get autoimmune conditions out of it, you get parasites, bugs, just dysbiosis or bad bacteria growing in its place that isn't doing the immune function that it should goes up way, way too much. Glyphosate is going to hit all of your systems, unfortunately. So eating organic is kind of the solution there. And then realizing that wine, beer, kind of all the alcohols are going to be laden with glyphosate, even if they're labeled organic. So organic in that industry is not good enough, unfortunately. So no drinking, basically. And then the last piece of glyphosate for women specifically is that cotton, next to food, cotton is the most sprayed plant with Roundup. So they take that cotton, they turn it into hygiene products, which go straight into our vaginas that then kill the local microbiome of the vaginas. And that microbiome is extremely important for fertility is what we're realizing now. Um, so pads and tampons are a big problem.

We are up against an assault that is so big. It feels— and I can imagine the audience thinking now, wow, this is, this is huge, this is a lot. I, you know, I want to repair my fertility and Everything, you know, it almost feels like everything in the world is against you. You know, you can't eat this, you can't eat that, you know, stay away from this, don't drink that. It's almost like, well, what can I have? What are some of the foods that are then most nourishing to help someone with their fertility? Are there foods that do help? Like you were talking about—

Mm-hmm.

The destruction of the microbiome. So would there be particular foods that would be helpful to restore the microbiome that then help all the other systems?

Yeah. So we have fermented foods that are going to help support the healthy microbiome. The caveat with fermented foods is if you get bloated when you eat fermented food, your dysbiosis is actually Pretty far gone that the healthy microbes make you feel worse. So you have to, you start just to introduce like a tablespoon. If you're brand new to fermented foods, start with like a tablespoon a day, right? And, and you can think about the fermented foods as you have sauerkraut, you have kimchi. Most of them are Asian foods. Kimchi, miso, fermented, and then tempeh is fermented. The only like modern fermented food that I would stay away from is kombucha. Kombucha is like the modern fermented food that we've invented that is not actually good for us.

Yesterday I was looking at health And all the investment in health, and one of the companies was a kombucha company that got a fifty million dollar investment to pump kombucha out into the world. You know, more of it out into the world.

Interesting.

Yeah. What is it about kombucha that's not good for you?

Well, there's two things about kombucha. One is the sugar sugar level. So if you read the ingredients on almost any of them, the sugar is extremely high. It's about 15 grams, some with like 20 grams of sugar, which is basically like a nice, like soft drink, basically, right? So that's problematic. The second is kind of a lesser known thing, but I've been studying it because I'm curious. What we find is that most of the teas that they're using in the fermentation process.

Hmm.

Are going to be high in fluoride and phosphate. Fluoride and phosphate offset iodine and calcium. If you are drinking enough kombucha, theoretically, you can be depleting your bones. Calcium is a very important nutrient for fertility. And it's stored in the bones. But it actually like floats around in your system. It does a whole bunch of signaling stuff. If you are depleted in calcium, that could be very problematic. And then iodine is actually a supporter for your thyroid. So if you are depleted in iodine, you might have thyroid issues. And if you have thyroid issues and you're not producing adequate thyroid hormone, Which actually would lead me to like the very next thing, which is one of the most common things that we see as a root cause is thyroid issues. If you have thyroid issues, you are not making adequate thyroid hormone, and there's a specific thyroid hormone that you can't actually measure. It's called T2. So your thyroid makes T4, your body converts it to T3, And then T3 gets converted to T2. T2 is the hormone that has— there are receptors for T2 on the ovaries. So T2 essentially has a direct impact on your ovarian function. We don't actually know yet what it does. My thought is that it regulates how the ovaries respond to FSH and LH from the brain. So that's just a theory, but it's been over the years like seeing all of these thyroid issues and just saying like, how does the thyroid affect the ovary? Like what's happening? But when the thyroid gets regulated, or for people that we find have Hashimoto's, which is very common, Hashimoto's is an autoimmune condition against The thyroid. A lot of people have Hashimoto's, don't even realize it, or they have Hashimoto's and are given prescription thyroid meds that are not working on the actual problem. So we see this a lot where women with Hashimoto's, there's a lot of research that connects that and recurrent pregnancy loss. There's a harder time to conception. So all kinds of thyroid issues that can correlate to fertility. And over the years, I've said, like, how does this work? Why is this happening? And it was a big moment when they discovered that the ovaries have these receptors. And I was like, oh my God, there's nothing in our body that is out of the way, like out of the blue, right? Everything has a reason. Everything has a Absolutely.

Absolutely. So that, that's interesting that you said that. I was going to ask you about the thyroid, but I was also going to ask you about conditions like, you know, how does— if we have poor methylation, what about— I think I've got the letters right here— PCOS and endometriosis. Are they—

Endometriosis. Yep.

Are they kind of like upstream conditions because of the imbalance of the microbiome Et cetera, or is there something else happening? I know methylation is a really big— MTHFR, that's a huge thing that people are talking about now. How does that all impact our ability to conceive?

So methylation is actually relatively simple if you just realize that almost every process in your body requires methylation. Everything from the absorption and utilization of nutrients to making hormones, to making neurotransmitters, all detoxification, it all relies on methylation. So if you have a genetic defect, quote unquote, that is like a mutation on one of these methylation genes, then you may not be methylating properly. And all of those processes are needed to make good quality eggs and good quality sperm. So if you have DNA mutations that are making poor quality egg or sperm, then it makes it very challenging for your body to make enough high quality reproductive—

Juices.

Yes. Like, what's the right word here? To fertilize into a healthy baby. So it is, it can impact either side. There is actually more research on the male side than the female side. And there is a lot of proof that methylation issues in men are noted to contribute to higher pregnancy loss rates in women. higher difficulty rates to conception. But the problem is, who's testing the guys for methylation issues? They're not even testing them for sperm issues.

So we—

That's interesting. Yeah. So really, like, that is a, is a pretty big factor, I would say, on the male side more than the female side. I think the There are some women that have methylation issues for sure, but I don't think it's as, at least from what I've seen, not as impactful as the male side. So methylation issues on the male side, and then I would stack on that side, blood sugar issues or insulin issues are also going to affect the quality of the sperm, which then impact pregnancy outcomes if someone's getting pregnant but can't.

So many women, when it comes to infertility or fertility issues, whatever they are, always assume the responsibility and the blame is put on them. Whenever you can't conceive, society straight away looks at the woman and says, what's wrong with you? Right.

Oh, it's because you're too old.

Yes.

You're too old. Yeah.

Or you genetically are broken, or, you know, you can't conceive for whatever reason. It's always pointed to the woman. I think many women listening to that comment that you've just made, that point that you've just made, would be emotionally relieving in a way, you know, of the guilt that it's all about them, and it's not.

49% male, 51% female, and there's a big overlap. So there is— if there's a little bit of subfertility on the male side, a little on the female side, They're coming together and it becomes a very big problem. So it's really like we're looking for these very nuanced things that sometimes people will come and say, that's it? That's all you figured out? And I'm like, let me tell you what that is going to do to your fertility. And you pair that with your partner who's got this little something, and together it's not working.

So it's—

fertility is this like very nuanced thing that isn't, oh, you're, you're, you have this disease. You mostly don't have any diseases. You just have suboptimal function, just enough to trigger this unsafe response in your body.

Mm-hmm.

So I just keep going back to that, like how, how do we help your body create safety? And how do we recreate an environment that your body says, oh my gosh, I'm at my optimal state, right? I'm functioning at my best. And from that place, it's much easier to have a baby.

That's a really good point. It's, it's really the grassroots level, which people don't think about it. They just think, I've had sex, I should get pregnant. But they don't think about what's the terrain that this baby, or you're trying to get To conceive, what's it like? How, how do you help rebalance people's bodies to help them? What do you do specifically?

Yeah, great question. So we have a 4-step process that we call Reveal, Remove, Rebalance, Receive— the 4 Rs to restorative fertility. So Reveal is what we've been talking about. Let's figure out what the exact problem is.

Mm-hmm.

Let's figure out, oh, you've got this dysbiosis or your immune function is off or whatever it is. Doesn't matter. If we can figure it out, we can figure out how to solve the problem. So we figure out the problem. Remove is getting rid of all the things in our environment and our lifestyle that is contributing to a harder fertility journey. So that's going to be all the layers that we've been talking about, the lifestyle, the environment, the toxins, the food that you're eating that maybe isn't great for you, or the drinking that probably isn't great for you. So remove all the things that are blocks to fertility. And then we get to the rebalance phase. And the rebalance phase is really about addressing all of the factors.

Mm-hmm.

So we may find, oh, we have a gut issue, we have a blood sugar issue, we have a methylation issue, we have a thyroid issue. We just stack it all up and we say, okay, we're going to start with what's the foundation, then what's the next step, the next step, the next step, and we rebalance and rebuild the terrain where this baby is going to develop. For male and female. I think a lot of people just see that as the female's carrying the baby, so it's your terrain. Well, yes, and there's so much new research that's coming out about how the health of the male prior to conception is actually determining the health of the future baby, the health of the pregnancy, whether or not that pregnancy will go to term.

Mm-hmm.

The placenta that is created is mostly from the sperm, and the placenta is going to either be healthy and feed and nourish this baby, or it's not. And then the kind of symptoms that she might have in pregnancy, so gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, all of the common conditions that that pop up are all linking back to the male partner's health prior to conception.

Never heard that before.

Yeah. Yeah. So if we're really not paying attention to both sides, or what we're seeing a lot is the men are like falling off, right? They will start out like, yes, I'm here. I'm here. I'm going to be doing the things. And then they get impatient and then they fall off. And they're no longer doing their plans. And that for us is very concerning because that means this woman may get pregnant, but it may not end well. And that's, that's a disservice to what we're supporting.

Mm-hmm.

So the guys have to like stay there and stay in it and on top of their optimized health for as long as she is going to need to conceive. That's the rebalance. And then receive is really our mind-body approach.

Hmm.

Our nervous system is constantly detecting for safety. So our nervous system is sort of like the antennas that are going, oh, it's safe, I can relax, or nope, oh, high alert, high alert, high alert. And if we're in that high alert mode a lot, or all the time sometimes, then it's sort of like we're running from a lion in the jungle all the time. And in that state, there's no way reproduction can happen, right? Like, you can imagine if someone's running from a lion, they're not thinking about having a baby.

Yes.

But if we're doing this to our body on a low level every single day, all the time, Then we're in that state all the time. We just don't realize it because we've gotten used to, I'm always on high alert. So the nervous system has to dial down and be able to differentiate in a more attuned way when it's safe and when it's in survival. And those survival signals are important because we don't want to put ourselves in unsafe It's important.

Right.

But it's important to not stay there. So we have to keep regulating the nervous system to be in a safe space so that reproduction can happen. So that's really our process. And we're doing, like, all of the things along the way to hold this couple in a space that they can, like, make the shifts in their life that they need to, to get to the other side.

It sounds like such a beautifully nurturing, holistic approach that you've got towards fertility, which, you know, it's not, it's not easy to find that. You know, it's sometimes it's just too prescriptive and people at the end feel that like they've lost hope or they just feel overwhelmed by it. So your approach really makes me feel like Fertility can— infertility can be reversed.

And I will go as far as to say most of the time it's not infertility.

When you're saying about the safety of the nervous system, so stress and the way we think and our mindset and our maybe even our personality type would actually play in as well?

Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. Uh, all of the Type A's that we tend to attract. Because, I mean, Type A is just another way of being on high alert all the time. So the Type A personality is essentially, I have to control everything. No one else can do it right. Only I can do it well. I, I'm gonna be perfect. If, and if I'm not perfect, something is wrong with me. So these are all the things that the women that we're working with are saying to themselves.

Mm-hmm.

themselves internally again and again. And it's not something that they got in their journey of fertility. They had that since they were a young child.

Hmm.

So their nervous system has been on this autopilot of, I'm not safe. I have to prove myself. I'm not worth it. I'm imperfect. Or if I'm perfect, but I'm ashamed that I have flaws. whatever it is, I, I have to give, give, give. I have to do and prove myself. All of these mindsets that are really, um, detrimental to the way of the feminine energy that we are.

Yes.

So there's this, and I don't talk about it very often, but there's this like subtle feminine energy that We know we have arrived at the place where she's going to receive this gift of baby if she is able to surrender and let go. And it's— and it's not a surrender and letting go of like, I'm giving up. Sometimes women describe it that way. because they don't know the, the shift that's happening for them. They're like, oh, I gave up and then I got pregnant. You didn't actually give up. You surrendered to, if this is not meant for me, it's okay. And if it's meant for me, it will come. And when you're able to be in that space, your body actually just lets go and releases and is open to receiving. But it's, um, there's an old, old story that I heard, which is like someone puts their hand in a very small hole to get something out and like picks it up and like holds on to it so tight but can't pull their arm back out. And then eventually when they let go, they can pull their arm out.

Mm-hmm.

So you really have to like let go to be able to release. really like, how do we, um, how do we release into being who we are, allowing the receiving, allowing and attracting what we— what is meant for us? And that may not always be a baby, but it may come in other ways, right?

Mm-hmm.

So for some people, they let go, they release, and they realize, oh, Actually, I don't actually want a baby anymore.

Yes.

And I've, I've had, I've had that happen with several couples that are like, thank you so much. You're amazing. You're the most best doctor ever. And I'm like, what? You didn't get pregnant? And they're like, no, thank you so much. Because if it wasn't for all of this stuff that we were doing with you, we would've never realized that our dream to become a parent was— is long past. Like, we don't even want it anymore. We're in a new place where we'd rather create this other life. And the couple is coming to that realization together in their own way. It's really beautiful to watch. But—

That is absolutely amazing. What it's like, you take people through this whole evolution and it goes far, far beyond I hope the audience takes from this particular episode that it goes far beyond just your labs and that someone says you haven't got the hormones or what. It's so deep. What would you say to somebody now who is wanting to conceive that they could do at home, a simple practice to help them to start let go so they do start feeling safe? in their body?

Oh, thank you. I love that question. So I have 3 tools.

Excellent.

Uh, one is probably my favorite one because it's so easy, which is going to bed and waking up at the same time every single day. And this is called circadian syncing. And when you are syncing yourself in this way to the circadian rhythm, Your body is getting the message that it is safe. The reason that it gets that message is regularity, routine, consistency, and all of those help support this idea of safety. If it's not safe, you wouldn't— you would have to wake up whenever you had to wake up because it's not safe. So, or you would have to go to bed when you could or whatever it is.

Got it.

So that regularity And being able to predict it with regularity gives the body a sense of safety. So that's an easy one. That tool has been studied to improve reproductive hormones by 40%. So doing absolutely nothing else, you would get a 40% improvement in your female hormones by doing this one thing. And men would also get a similar improvement. So. Do men do it too? Um, the second is cycle thinking, which is— sorry, um, body scanning, which is a tool that you're just scanning yourself, your physical body. It's sort of like meditating, but you're just scanning your body and you're not looking for anything specific. You're just observing. So you're saying, oh, A little bit of pain. Oh, a little bit of tightness there. Hmm. And then you scan and you're, when you get back to it, you're like, oh, that's gone. Hmm. Interesting. And you're just scanning. So you do this for 10 minutes a day and that has been shown to reduce stress hormones by 23%. So that's something.

So you don't do anything about the pain. You don't, you don't judge it.

You don't do anything about it.

You just notice it and then let it go.

Yep. You just notice it and then you go back around and you notice it again and you're like, oh, that— I thought that was in hurting, but okay, it's not anymore. Okay. You just keep scanning for 10 minutes. So set your timer and do that for 10 minutes. That's super healing for the nervous system. And then the last tool, sometimes it's a little more complicated these days, is to be in— specifically this one's for women. And this is Improving oxytocin, which is a hormone that I think is the, like, safety hormone in the body. And this hormone, if we're able to improve it, gives our body a sense of, I am safe in this world. So the more we can have of it, the better. And For men, there isn't a lot of studies on this, but for men, this hormone actually improves sperm health. So if men can have this hormone, it will help their sperm directly. For women, it's just a sense of safety, which is important. And there's lots of tools to increase oxytocin. There's one that is a practice that we have couples do. So they look at each other, they, um, they're Like connecting with their eyes, gazing for 5 to 6 minutes, and then end with a hug. And that will stimulate the production of oxytocin. Just longer hugs will also improve oxytocin production. Talking. So anything that has connection as part of it will improve oxytocin production. Skin to skin. Skin-to-skin contact, literally so many ways. And my favorite one for women, which they've done studies on this, is women being in groups and circles of women. So being able to commune over a meal, healthy drinks, whatever it is, is going to help support the production of oxytocin and reinform this idea that we're safe because culturally and for generations, women have done this. And we are the first generation of women that are no longer meeting in circles of women.

Yes.

So, so really being able to do that and to have that, like, connection and conversation and just being together where there's no purpose, there's no Like judgment, agenda. Yeah, you're just being. Um, that is super essential and will help support safety.

Oh God, that, that is fantastic. And they are such doable things for people. They're not huge things. You don't have to buy anything. It's about just relying on yourself, on your intuition and your, and really your desire to do that. If you really want to make change, You have to change. You can't just keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome. Expect to become, you know, improve your fertility if you just want to keep doing the same thing. That I've loved this issue, this episode. Sorry, it has been amazing. You've shared so many great points, and I really feel that someone can get such a great understanding and hope for themselves. that a baby is possible for them if they've been told it's not. And if everybody loves what they've heard, which I'm sure you have, all of Dr. Obatma's details will be in the show notes. Please contact her and she will be able to assist you like obviously no one else can that I've ever heard. So thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me, Rita. This has been awesome.

Thank you. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action,