Why Your Foot Pain Won’t Go Away – The Truth Nobody Talks About!
1 Apr 2025 · 58 min
In this episode of Beyond Diagnosis, host Rita De Michele interviews senior physiotherapist Robyn Gant about chronic foot and ankle pain. Robyn explains how foot dysfunction often stems from whole‑body misalignments—such as hip‑carrying patterns, balance deficits, and stress‑induced muscle tension—that lock the outside of the foot and create a cascade of pain up the leg, pelvis, and neck. She describes her detective‑style assessment (single‑leg balance, toe‑up test, “foot‑clock” positioning) and how she uncovers hidden “clangers”—unexpected injuries or stress events that trigger lingering pain. The conversation covers non‑painful treatment tools, notably a handheld low‑level laser that releases tender points, and simple breathing exercises that calm stress‑related muscle guarding. Robyn contrasts mobility‑focused foot work with the use of orthotics, explaining when each is appropriate. She delves into common conditions—locked outside foot, plantar heel pain, bunions, neuromas, osteophytes—and offers practical footwear tips (suede, stretchy uppers, avoiding patent leather). The episode also touches on gender‑specific issues such as child‑carrying hip asymmetry, post‑menopausal foot widening, and the impact of stilettos. Throughout, Robyn emphasizes a holistic, integrated physiotherapy approach, collaboration with other practitioners, and provides resources (free courses, handouts) for both patients and clinicians.
Chapters
I spend many of my days treating women who have carried children on their hip, um, that the pattern that they use to push their hip over to the side locks the outside of their foot. And so they end up, uh, it has a ripple effect all the way through the body because this muscle's got to hold the hip up. It goes right up through their shoulder, how they're using their hand. And all the way up to their neck. And so if they don't get that sorted, they, they can't seem to get back to exercise without injuring themselves.
Hello and welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, Your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Are you struggling with persistent foot and ankle pain that just won't go away? Then stay with us because today's guest is Robin Gant, a senior physiotherapist passionate about solving chronic foot and ankle pain. Her integrative and systematic approach helps her to, helps her to do the detective work required to solve the problem. The source of the pain may be in the foot, or it may be part of a bigger picture involving the whole body. Welcome, Robyn.
Thank you very much, Rita. Really lovely to speak with you and share some insights. Yet it's going to be true.
I mean, feet, feet. I mean, they can, they bear our weight, they take us places. And if it's not right, if they're, if you're in pain with your feet or you've got fallen arches or you've got ankle pain or foot pain or whatever it is, all of a sudden life feels like a misery when your feet hurt. So, Robyn, I know that you actually educate other practitioners, which is really exciting. So you're at a really high level within all of this. So what are you doing differently than other practitioners?
Yes. I think my practice has evolved a lot since I studied the foot in my early years. And What I've come to learn is how to free up the foot, how to restore movement in the foot is so critical. And a lot of people do not understand how the foot works. And so I've spent my whole career learning how the foot works and how to restore mobility and get people out of pain. So, um, I particularly work with the whole body. People think that I just, you know, work with foot and ankle, but the body doesn't work like that.
Mm-hmm.
We've really got to look at the detail in the foot, but also look above for what's going wrong above the foot. So anything that's making work for the foot, if our alignment's not great, If our balance, if we're struggling to balance, we make a lot of work for the foot. And so we need to do the detective work and dig deeper in people's stories to really understand how they got injured and what we can explore that's going to help them. And everybody's different. So no 2 conditions are really the same. And that's what I love about it. I never get bored in my work. It's always a fascinating journey. And sometimes it's quite hilarious. Um, and, um, yeah, so I, I, I focus on the detail in the foot and look at the bigger picture and how one part of the body connects with another.
Mm.
a really important, important thing. So I think that's my point of difference.
And so you have this approach called the recipe approach where, you know, you were just saying, which you were just saying there is, which is your point of difference, whereas the foot's role in the whole body. So, you know, it could be you're looking at maybe the hips or the knees or the neck, even the neck.
Who would Throbs in their neck. Yes. Because that's where our vestibular system is in our ears that help us balance. So if my head's off to one side, I've got false information. So being able to balance and stand on one leg is a really sort of important test that I do to every client. And I also check their ability to go up onto their toes. That'll give me some really good insights into what's going on in their foot. Um, and then I also check their whole body. Um, so if they can't, if they can't balance, um, we need to work out where the issue is. And it could be from the head or neck, could be in the trunk, could be in the pelvis, could be in the knees, or it could be in the feet. I think people tend to assume that balance is all about your feet. But it's, we have to look at the whole system. And, um, yeah, so that's also quite different, I think, in, in what I do.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And is there a particular condition that you, that your clients come and see you for that sort of overrides others? Is there one particular condition that you think, wow, everybody's coming in for this?
Okay. So, um, during the pandemic, um, this was my epiphany. And when everybody got chucked out of the gyms and they had to then go out walking on footpaths and, um, across tree roots, and they would be catching their foot on the edge of the path and they would, um, be tripping over things. Causing major disruption to their body. So when we have an unexpected movement, like catching the edge of the path, we might think nothing happened, but something did.
Mm-hmm.
The outside of your foot can get locked. And the reason that this is important is because the outside of the foot is meant to be the most mobile part of the foot. The inside of the foot's the stiffest part, and that's meant to be stiff. But if we lose that movement on the outside, we lose our ability to roll through the foot, and we lose our ability to get up on our toes, and it affects your balance. So those 3 things are really important. And I was seeing, I saw 20 of these. It's 6 days.
Wow.
People were confused as to why they, why they were sore. What did I do? Um, some people knew that they'd just rolled their ankle, but others just dismissed it. And, um, and once it's locked, um, the consequences then, if you can't roll through the outside, you have to roll through the inside. And then that starts causing other problems. So that can be where plantar heel pain starts, where people get plantar fasciitis, but plantar heel pain, I call it. But I was seeing that repeatedly. And that became my first course in my teaching platform so that practitioners can test, learn how to test for it. And how to unlock it. So that was that, and that's my free course. So yeah, it's, it's a bit of a generous one.
And, and that's the whole thing, isn't it? When I think we really underestimate, uh, the impact of even a small injury on our body, like, like we might have a sore neck, for example. And it's stiff, but we don't go do something about it. We say, ah, it'll pass. You know, but we don't realize that once you leave it, like you're saying with the foot, it locks in. So you then, would it be that people then just get used to, they've had the pain or they've started walking a bit awkwardly, and then all of a sudden they just keep doing it. And so then they become used to it. It's become habit and they don't realize that they're actually totally out of balance.
Yeah. So that creates a lot of compensation through the system. And speaking of that locking of the foot, I had a client who injured her foot when she was 8 and she'd fallen on a skateboard and she had not, she had tried to get this fixed for many, many years. And it was the locking of her foot that was the problem. And so when she came to see me, she was age 59.
Wow.
That is when her foot got fixed. So the unlocking of the outside of the foot is such a critical thing, but most practitioners struggle with the foot. It's complex. And I've come up with a way of really simplifying how How to work with the foot and how to unlock it.
Well, that sounds fabulous. Anybody who's experiencing that, that's like, you know, magic to their ears, isn't it?
And the magic part is that I use a low-level laser to treat tender points in muscles. And so I don't have to hurt people to unlock their foot. I don't have to use force or I can, use the laser, which helps treat tender points, trigger points in muscles and nerves. And I can just do that on the muscles that are holding them. And then it all of a sudden just moves. So, and they're just stunned. So I show them the movements that are supposed to be happening and what's not happening. And then within about Probably 15 minutes, we've unlocked their foot.
That's incredible. Just through a laser. So they don't feel the laser, is it? It's not like light therapy or anything?
Oh, it is a light therapy.
Oh, it is a light therapy.
Yeah. So it's a laser and it's a handheld laser. And, um, yeah, so it's, it's really, and it's saved my hands as a practitioner. Uh, and it's the, the clients love it because it doesn't hurt. I don't have to hurt them.
Well, I'm sure they appreciate that.
This is the thing. This is the thing that, um, that locking of the foot, um, is, is not usually considered in ankle sprains. So there's a lot of people who've had ankle sprains that still have the outside of their foot locked.
Wow.
People tend to just look at the ankle, don't necessarily go up and they don't necessarily go down.
It's so true. Yes. And most, and when you go to most practitioners, you know, if you, maybe you went to a physio, went to a doctor, they recommend you to go to a physio or someone like that.
They do.
They just concentrate on your ankle.
Yeah.
They don't start, you know, assessing the foot or maybe the knee or the hip to see what's out. Yeah.
So if we have an incidental, unexpected movement when we're walking, say you trip on a tree root and you stumble, that is going to impact your pelvis. So what happens with unexpected movements that's different to our normal movement? So we're usually planning our movement for, and what we're expecting.
Yes.
Something unexpected like that happens. There isn't enough time for the information to get from your foot to your brain. So the brain just throws at it what it thinks you need to save your fall. Now you could save a fall or you could fall flat on your face and you're still going to have this ripple effect through your body. So these things stay in the system until Until somebody releases it all. And these patterns that happen with these sort of incidental things can have a ripple effect all the way up to your neck. So, and there can be spirally patterns and twisted patterns and the pelvis can be in a torsional position. So that changes the whole way you walk. So I say to my clients now, I call these things clangers. Things that you weren't expecting. And so, because they can sometimes take a while to show up, and by the time it shows up in maybe 3 weeks, they've forgotten, they've dismissed the incident. So I go digging for those things. Um, and so we need to clear the whole pattern or else it'll come back again. Whatever we do to the foot, if we don't— clear up what's happening above the foot, it'll, it'll come back.
Well, that's so interesting, isn't it? So tell us on that line, tell us about, well, I was really fascinated when I read this in your work about the connection between stress and our feet. Oh my God. I would never have connected our stress level to our feet.
Yes. So how does that work? Yeah. Now, during the GFC and then COVID, this was a massive, I was, I was seeing someone every day. Pretty much all my clients were stressed. And, um, I realized that they'd come in and they're saying they're aching all over. Um, and the reason that they're aching all over is that The stress response triggers a whole lot of muscles in your body that, uh, we call it the fight or flight response. So they're going to feel it in their jaw. They're going to feel it in their neck and they're going to feel it all the way through their body. So the flight part is they've got to run. The fight part is the jaw clench. And a lot of nerves are threaded through those muscles. All the way down to your feet. So when you're chronically stressed, as it was in those 2 situations, it didn't just go away. It, it, it got worse and got worse. And so people were getting, um, not just foot pain, that's the thing that's going to get you out of, that's going to help you run.
Mm-hmm.
But also we had people with, you know, arm pain. I, uh, had people with widespread pain that thought they had MS because they were tingling all over because of the nervous system. And particularly in the foot, there's, there's a design fault in the foot that the muscles that you use to run are tied together with a nerve. It's like a twisty ties around it. And that makes wearing an orthotic really uncomfortable. Any arch support will irritate it. So that's often why they come to me. They're going, my feet are hurting, but when I look at the rest of them, the whole lot is on. And so I'm able to teach them a way of shutting it all down just with 5 breaths. Because our breathing changes when we get stressed. We breathe up here, our shoulders come up, our jaw clenches. So I get them to bring their shoulders down, put their hands on their belly, and do 5 really slow breaths in and out. And we start in for 4 and out for 4 and build up to an 8-count breath. So it's really slow. That'll shut it down. And they can be just amazed that it doesn't hurt anymore. And so stress-related foot pain is certainly something that we see when people are chronically stressed.
Geez, that, that I would never have put the two together. That's so interesting. And you know, what a great reason to actually de-stress ourselves. Yeah. Because, you know, you think your stress is in your neck, your head. you know, maybe your stomach, you know, the, but all of that sort of thing, you feel the, the tingling in your nervous system, but I would never go, I'm stressed and that's why my foot hurts. You know, it just seems so foreign to even start thinking like that. So it's fantastic to have that awareness.
One client of mine that I remember vividly, he was walking across the bridge and his, his friend had died. And he was thinking about his friend who'd just died. And all of a sudden he just had this excruciating pain in his foot. And he just went, what's happening? And that was what was happening. It was a stress response from thinking about his lost friend.
Wow.
That's incredible. Yeah. And it took us one session just to sort it out. So. And he went, wow, thanks.
And you did that through the breathing. You didn't actually do anything physical to his ankle.
Correct. Yeah. So sometimes the ribs get stuck up like this and sometimes the ribs get pulled down and I have to fix them and put them back where they belong.
So your work, you actually help adjust people's bodies, not just the ankle and the foot, you actually help them throughout their entire body.
Absolutely. So I have to be able to work with the whole body to help people's feet because the issues could be coming from their feet or they could be coming from above the feet and all the way up to their trunk. How our body's stacked one above the other, that makes a big difference. if our hips are sort of shifted off to one side, as happens in child-carrying patterns in women, that is a disaster. And they try to go on holidays and they just wreck their feet. So it's so important to clear that out. Um, and, and treat the whole system. And, um, I've created a document for that to help other practitioners as well. Uh, because, you know, a lot of people aren't aware of that and it shows them how, how to unlock the foot as well.
Well, I definitely carried my son on my hip, on my right hip all the time, you know, and I would sway my, you know, I would push my left hip out to compensate and hold him. And, you know, I can remember the pain in the— as it got heavier, the pain in the neck, you know, the arm would ache, you got your lower back hurt. But I never really thought doing that would have any effect on my feet.
Absolutely. Because you've loaded beyond the outside of the foot. Yeah. So I do encourage women, especially new mums, to Carry centrally. There's some really good gadgets now for carrying a child centrally on the front of you or on the back or just a seat that the child sits on. So yeah, carrying centrally is just so much better for your body.
Is there a particular common, or should I say universal type of pain. I know everyone's different and individual, um, that someone can experience if they have been a pip carrier for their kids. And then after, once their kids are walking and they don't do it, is, do you, is there a universal pain that people come in with? You know, like maybe they've got a pain running down the side of their leg down to their ankle. Is there something that they come in and say, I've got this, and you go, uh-huh, are you a mother?
Exactly. So, and I can be treating that in young women and, um, you know, any, any age really, um, that has done that. So yes, it goes right up the side of the leg, um, across the other hip, back up to the, to the, um, shoulder and neck.
Yeah, just helping our listeners who may have done that, who have this type of pain and would never consider going to a foot and ankle specialist.
Well, it's actually their feet that bring them to me because it locks their foot. It's going, this is really hurting me. So someone I just saw 2 days ago, she had She had 4 children of her own, carried them on the left hip. She's a grandparent. She's got 7 grandchildren. She's been carrying them on her left hip.
Wow.
Look, back to Europe and was trying to walk on cobblestones and her foot was locked so she couldn't move properly and she just tore her plantar fascia.
Oh.
Because the outside of the foot was locked and she couldn't, her foot was not moving at all. And so, um, yeah, so today, that day I just unlocked her foot so I could put her in a boot to heal it. And then we're going to fix up the rest of it while she's, while she's, um, having treatment.
So just to give some context for our listeners, when you say locked, right, the foot is locked. Does that mean, I'm trying to visualize. Does that mean instead of the foot being flexible and moving like you would when you walk, is it more like a plank? Like it's more like a block of wood?
I have a foot.
Oh, excellent. Oh yeah, leave it there so we can see it, but you might have to describe it as well.
So, oh, we'll look at the front of the foot. I'll just bring it over here. Got it.
There we are.
So the foot should be able to move. This way. Okay. It needs to be able to move that way.
Right and left.
Yep. Yeah. But the locked, locked foot means they can't, they can't do this movement towards the big toe. And they, they lose a twisty movement in their foot. So that, yeah, I think, yeah, they lose a twisting movement in their foot and their big toe gets stuck. Oh, I see. So yeah, so it's the outside of the foot. There's, it's sort of in 2 pieces and this is the, I'd say that doesn't quite work.
The part that, that is the part that locks up.
Yeah. So yeah, so it's like 2 columns of bones and one's for stability, one's for movement and you need that moving.
Right.
So that's what I, why I find That's often the precursor to people when they get a plantar heel pain problem.
Okay. And this is a little bit left field, this question, maybe. Is there any difference for foot health or foot pain? Is there any difference between a heel walker and a toe walker?
Yes. And—
Is one better than the other? Or is it just like left hand, right hand?
So some people, my neighbor walks on her toes. She has worn stilettos for many, many years. And she probably had sort of tight heel cords when she was a child, when she was young anyway, younger. So yeah, so some people do naturally walk on their toes. People who are heavy heel strikers are really causing a lot of damage through their body. So these are the stompers. So people who stride out a lot in front are smashing their heels into the ground and making walking really difficult. And so there's a method called chi walking, which can Change that to a very gentle sort of soft, soft landing. Okay. So that it's, you're just landing gently underneath your foot and you use your body weight to propel you. Um, and I taught myself this before I trekked the Inca Trail and I had, uh, it was fantastic. I, um, I didn't have any issues with my legs or my feet. And I'm quite hypermobile, so I was kind of expecting some trouble, but it really, really helped me. And so, yeah, so people who are stompers, there's another way to not injure yourself.
And what are they actually doing to their foot being a stomper?
Yes. So it's when it's the ground reaction force hitting the ground, there's an equal and opposite force going back up your leg. And so it's like, walking with the brakes on.
Oh.
Um, and so you've got to push with your foot to overcome that braking force. And it's just hard work. So people get sore all the way up the front of their legs in there and up into their hips and into their back. Um, and so I can teach people how to, um, how to change that within about you know, 20 minutes or less, um, and, and reorganize their walking. And it's effortless that, um, by using the momentum, um, of a straight line through the body, it works your core and it, um, is, is gentle. And you can, if you want to walk faster, you just lean a little bit more.
Forwards?
Yeah, forward. Yeah. Just a little bit of a lean just to make you move.
Oh, it gives you that momentum.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, so I, I see a lot of that. So people can come in. Um, yeah. So my, my, one of my clients, I was walking with, showing her, teaching her that.
Yes.
And yeah, it's just very efficient walk.
Yes.
And so, yeah, so the heel striding. Um, is, is, um, it really affects all your joints and your muscles all the way up to about your waist.
Right. That's interesting. Let's talk about one of the big complaints around feet, and that is the dreaded bunion.
So what are the causes?
What causes bunions?
So bunions are actually a genetic thing. Uh, my mother had them. I had them. Um, I, um, I've managed mine for a good 30 years before I had needed to have surgery. And so bunions are where, you know, I'm really talking about the big toe coming across like that.
Yes.
That's what I'm talking about with the big bump on the side that's pushing over onto the other toes. So I was able to manage treating that, and I have a little handout that I give to my clients that's on my website of how they can also work with their own foot. So what I did to keep the mobility in my foot, And to stop the muscles hurting, because often people's pain is muscular and they don't realize, um, that there's a muscle going right across the base here and that's squashing your foot.
Yes.
Which is pretty uncomfortable.
Yeah.
So, yeah. So there's a number of muscles that are contributing to that and we can release them. I use the laser, free it all up, free their foot up and they go, oh, thanks. That feels great. So we need to restore also the spaces between the bones, which are really important because the nerves run in between the bones. And if the, when the muscles get tight, it's compressing the forefoot and people can also develop neuromas in their feet, which are really painful because the nerves are getting squashed.
Wow.
So, um, then there's some little devices that we can use to help spread and restore the spaces between the bones. So I see a lot of people with their bunions and, and we don't always, I wouldn't always recommend surgery, um, because there's lots that we can do. But once we get to a point, my tipping point was when The little sesamoid, there's these little bones here, these little sesamoid bones just here underneath your big toe. And those little bones are meant to be under the toe, but once it gets to about a 45-degree angle or 40-degree angle, those little bones are hanging in, one's hanging in space. And so you're loading the other one, the other little bone, and that can get arthritic and painful and get a stress fracture in it. So when mine got to that, I went, uh-uh, I'm done. I've been looking after this. I need to get surgery now. And what was exciting for me, I'd been going to the orthopedics conferences for many, many years waiting for the surgery to get better. And it has got better now. And it used to be very painful.
Yes.
But it's, now there are minimally invasive techniques. that are done pretty much with what looks like a pen tip. And so they're causing less trauma to the tissue and in fixing it and realigning the toe. And the problem actually starts further back up in the foot. It actually pulls out that way. Um, so, um, and also the anesthetic, how they use the anesthesia these days. Um, I had no pain. I had absolutely no pain.
Incredible.
Which I was thrilled about. Um, and I was able to be walking all over Japan 9 weeks later. So.
That's amazing compared to the old days. I remember when my sister had her bunions done, she was in terrible pain for a long time.
Yeah. Yeah. And they, they end up stiff because there's been a lot more cutting and scarring. So by minimally, um, invasively treating it, um, they, I had full movement straight after the surgery. I didn't lose any movement.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's incredible. That is a real advance, advancement because so many people who are struggling with bunions avoid having surgery because of the horror stories.
Yeah.
I know my eldest sister doesn't want to have it because she remembers the pain my second eldest sister did. That's—
And yeah, or minimally invasive bunion surgery.
Yes.
So the person who did mine, uh, learned that, studied that in the UK. Um, so it's, it's certainly happening. And, and I'm really grateful for it. Still, I put my feet down. I didn't do them both at the same time. Um, one, one started first and then the other one. So, um, but yeah, I was very happy about that.
Oh, especially if you're struggling to, uh, get your feet into shoes.
It, it, there becomes a point where you go, this is getting—
yes. Yeah. You need, you need, you need to feel liberated. You need to be able to put on a pair of shoes and not suffer. So that's incredible that it is advancing like that.
Yeah. And just some suggestions for people who do have bunions. I have a lot of suede shoes because suede was the most comfortable thing I could wear on my foot because it's so conforming and just stretches nicely. You want to avoid Um, any shoes with stitching over the bunion, because it's not going to stretch.
Yes.
And, um, materials like patent leather don't stretch. So stay away from those. Um, and, um, what else would I suggest? Um, yeah, so I just, I had lots of suede boots and things that just molded around my feet.
That's a really good suggestion.
Yeah.
Because some people just don't realize or don't know what to choose in shoes when they have bunions. Yeah.
It's stretchy uppers is great. So many shoes around now with stretchy uppers and, you know, and now, um, yeah, even sand shoes are fashionable. So.
Absolutely. Thank goodness.
Yeah.
So what Tell me, what is this, especially for women, you know, after we've had children and maybe we've gone through menopause? What's with the bigger feet? Why do our feet keep— why have our feet grown? Mine have grown, you know. What's that all about?
Okay, so while everything else is going south, so are our arches. The more it's different for, say, someone who's been sitting down doing an admin job might not have such an issue. But when they retire and they start doing more activity, their feet can get longer and wider because they're putting more load through them.
Yes.
So it can happen, the hormones can feed into that because hormonal changes happen sort of through pregnancy and around menopause. So that was when my foot took off and it really, that was the last straw. So yeah, so menopausal changes and, and just the change in the, the resilience of the tissue. And so you can go up 2 shoe sizes after 30 or 40. And so you do need to monitor your shoes because if you don't, uh, if you find yourself, you put on last, last year's shoe and you're going, This doesn't feel right. But check, because you've probably outgrown your shoe. And the consequences of that are anything that is tight in the front of your shoe is going to squash the front of your foot and potentially cause one of those nasty neuromas I just talked about. So a really good way to make sure that you've got the right fit in your shoe when you go to buy another one is to pull out the liner if you can and stand on it. We call that the shoe liner test. And you should be able to feel all the way around the, especially at the front of the foot, you should be able to feel the edge of the liner.
Mm-hmm.
If the liner's underneath your foot, what you've got in your hand is not wide enough. And so, so we really need to get the right width. Um, so getting that, you know, doing that shoe liner test will give you a lot more confidence. So you've got to stand on it, not just put it underneath your foot. Because when you've, you've got to put the load on it to make sure it's still going to fit.
Yes. Because our foot obviously widens with the load of our body, as opposed to sitting down and just slapping it on the sole.
Yeah.
Yes. I know. I mean, my feet are nothing of what they were, you know, years ago. I feel like, well, they're much wider. They're a shoe size bigger and they seem to be thicker as well. Like, can the bones thicken?
Um, so they can grow little bumps on them.
Yeah.
They're called osteophytes and they're just usually little bony bumps. Um, there'll be some on my model here. Um, and they're just a sort of stress response where there might be a bit of arthritis happening.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, people who've got arthritis in their feet can be really helped by loosening up their feet. Um, so those little signs, um, of the them bumps on the top, it can be an indication that there's some arthritic change. But being able to loosen up and free up the whole mobility of the foot is just lovely. I used to have a, we had a wonderful shop here in my local neighborhood and full of beautiful shoes, comfortable shoes, but the person who ran the shop, who owned the shop couldn't, no shoe was comfortable for her. And she had some rheumatoid arthritis. So this is how I came by having a cupboard full of, um, wonderful shoes, wide shoes. So I would go in and treat her and she'd go, we'll go pick a pair of shoes. That was, that was a really good relationship. That's a win-win. And she got to be able to wear whatever shoes she liked and dance on her feet. And, and she, I taught her stretches to do and yeah, she'd been crippled and she was, you know.
So there is relief for people who have arthritis in their feet.
Absolutely. Yeah.
You don't have to just suffer.
No. Oh, there's a lot of people walking around with stuck feet that don't move.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, oh my goodness. That's, I'm sure that's just relief to hear that there's something for them.
Yes. And I can do it gently, you know, treat the muscles that are causing it. So that's the troubleshooting that I do, which is also different. So people want to just push it, but I go find out why it's not working, what muscles are holding it there and treat them.
Yes.
And then that's just done.
Well, it sounds like your approach is very find the root cause, not just the end symptom.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So that's why I couldn't not work with the whole body. And my practice is called Joint Health, but its little tagline says leaders in foot and ankle and integrated physiotherapy. So that's the integrated part. So more what I do from that. Yeah, but it was a hard thing to brand. I'm sure it was. Yeah. Yeah.
Tell me, orthotics. What's the good, the ugly? Do they work? You know, we're always, as soon as we have a little bit of foot pain, we're prescribed orthotics.
Okay. So first of all, before someone goes for orthotics, I like to see if we can work out what's happened. Is something stuck in their foot? Because otherwise it's just propping up something that could be mobilized and restored. So treat the foot first. If there's some collapse that's happening in the foot, that's not able to be restored. There's a condition called tibialis posterior tendonopathy, which is a muscle on the inside of your foot that supports the arch of your foot. So that can get damaged. And some people really, really need those orthotics to be able to walk.
Yes.
And really damage that tendon and it gets frayed. Um, and there's, there's surgical procedures for that. Um, some people don't want to have that and they, they manage with their orthotics. People with bunions, it's not really going to help you. You need all the space in your shoe to, to fit your foot in.
Mm-hmm.
Um, it doesn't really help. So I'd forget about those ones. Um, so yeah, there's a sort of spectrum.
Yes.
So not everybody needs them. And I really love working with practitioners that go, look, maybe this will help, but go and see Rob first and then come back to me if you need it. And so we work collaboratively. I work collaboratively with osteopaths and podiatrists as well. So yeah, and we refer to each other. So it's Yes. So we all work as a team.
So if you like, some people walk on the outside of their foot, some people roll in, some people have fallen arches, but before you actually pay for those orthotics, it's obviously better for you to have a look at the foot to see what can be done for that foot prior to even going into the— because the orthotic, well, and now that I hear what you're saying, could be just like a crutch for the problem. It's not actually correcting it.
Yes. And we can quite often restore the movement in the foot. If someone's injured their foot, restore the movement and then they can balance again. The foot should really be a self-balancing system. So, and if it's in one foot, why is it in one foot? You know, I want to know. So there's going to be something that needs fixing in there.
Absolutely.
Or the movement.
Yeah.
So, yeah. So I'm, I'm, um, judicious in when I would refer to people for orthotics. Make sure that we've, we've cleared everything and there's not something above them, above their feet that's feeding into it, because that would be like trying to prop up a house at the foundations.
The foundations.
It's not going to work. So, so I like—
is that why sometimes when you wear orthotics, they can be so painful and people say, oh, you've just got to break them in. But is that because something else is happening higher up?
Well, that might be, um, a postural— that might be because of that design fault I said about underneath the foot where the Yes. The buckles are tied together with the nerve. So people who stand with their hips forward, you see, you see all these people watching sport, they've all got their arms folded and their hips shoved forwards, and that's making their toes grip.
Oh, yes.
So it can be that, or it could be a stress thing, or it could be that they've been jumping up and down and Irritated those muscles.
Yes.
Um, so one, one father thought he was really cool and he'd go to some, you know, hip club with his kids and they're all jumping up and down and just about crippled himself. Fix him up. I'm not doing that again.
Yeah.
So, um, Yeah. So there can be issues going on above the feet. And one little test that is useful to understand whether you might have something going on at the hips is if you're sitting with your legs out in front, maybe watching TV on one of those nice lounges, and your feet should be pretty much symmetrical. But if they're If one's rolled out and one's sitting up, there's something going on at your hips.
No.
So you know how they sell watches, 10 to 2?
Yes.
That's my foot clock. And so I refer to it as my foot clock. And if their foot's sticking straight up, that's 12 to 2 or 12 to 3. So they might have one really round, wound up to the outside. And so I like to finish with them in that 10 to 2 position. Right.
So anything outside of 10 to 2, like one foot is pointing to 10 and one foot is pointing to 2 on the clock, so to speak, um, there is something happening further up the body.
Yes. So, and we, we can rebalance that. Yeah. So that's why I have to, I have to go up then that could be in the pelvis or the hips.
Yeah.
Um, people who cross their legs, I, um, have some, yeah, postural habits. Um, crossing legs, um, can really imbalance the, the seat that you're sitting on. So it imbalances your hips, but it also pulls the leg across. And then that changes the whole way you use your leg and your foot. So I'm constantly training people out of that. And I do it with putting a little prickly Velcro spot on the underneath leg so that when they do that, they go, ooh, and they train it out in a day.
Okay. Well, again, who would think crossing your legs had anything to do with your feet?
So if I take that away and say, you can't cross your legs like you normally do, but you can cross your ankles, that's okay. That's not going to imbalance your hips and it'll just rest happily on the floor. So they can cross their ankles, but not their feet. And it's also important when you've got your legs out straight that you don't hook your, cross your ankles as well, because you're going to Work the muscles on the insides too much. Yeah. So sitting with your feet down, cross your ankles, that's fine. That's right. Okay.
Basically sitting in a proper position, even when you're on a comfy sofa, like you would in a, like a dining room chair, is the safest position for the alignment of your body to give you the—
If you're watching TV. Keep your feet apart. Right.
You wouldn't think of all these little intricacies, would you? Like all these little habits that we have that end up making a major impact on the way you walk, how comfortable you are with your feet, the level of pain, whether they're stiff, flexible. It's just endless, isn't it?
I have a sign in my practice that says, It's the little things. Some, it's the little things you do all day that have a lot to do with how you feel. And so that can be lots of little habits that they're not aware of.
Yes.
A lot of people, um, sitting with their feet turned in. It's like, no, don't do that.
Do you, do you walk past people like in a restaurant or maybe you're on public transport and you see everyone how they sit and it must You must want to— how do you resist not going up to them and going, please unlock those legs?
Yes, I just observe.
You must have good restraint. But to finish off for today, Robin, the question I'm sure on everybody's lips and certainly on mine, what is your opinion Especially for the women on stilettos.
Okay. This is really interesting. Uh, for my entire career, which is now 40 years, keep giving that away. I, first of all, I've never actually treated someone who's injured themselves on stilettos. I'm sure maybe somebody else has, but I haven't. And That's pretty weird, right? Now, think of Ginger Rogers, Fred Astaire. She was dancing in stilettos and backwards. She had brilliant balance. And my neighbor who walks on her toes has spent her life in stilettos and she has never injured herself in her stilettos. But when she started, when sand shoes were fashionable, She started wearing them and she was injuring herself.
Oh, that's amazing.
Her balance was based on having that heel height. And, um, so she'd broken, she broke her foot twice in sensible shoes. So I think they're probably an amazing balance tool. Um, that, yeah, I'm, I've been surprised that I've Never seen someone injure themselves doing that.
What about the position of the foot though? A lot, you hear a lot of, uh, I think orthopedic surgeons, you know, they say never wear stilettos because of the position it puts your foot in.
Yeah. So, yeah, so there is increasing pressure in the forefoot. For some reason, some people can be completely happy. wearing, you know, with that, with that position, I was never able to wear them. They just hurt me. So I tend to wear wedges or, um, that have a little bit of a platform that you can still, um, have a heel, but having a bit of a platform at the front means the gradient's not so, so much because my feet were always a bit of a weird shape anyway. So, um, so look, it's horses for courses and Um, other things that I, that surprised me about footwear is the, the ballet flats. Everyone was walking around in ballet flats from—
Everyone.
And, um, when the ballet flats get loose, you start, oh, this happens with court shoes as well. Once they've stretched, you've got to grip with your toes to keep them on.
It's so true.
So, um, yeah, so, um, and it needs something that secures it. So it needs a strap or it needs, um, something to keep the shoe on. So, um, so some little, some ballet flats are fine if they've got straps, but, um, and there's some, some nice, um, corporate sort of shoes that you might have a diagonal strap on it. Or, um, so you always want to have a strap. On your shoe. Right.
And that stops you from doing that.
Gripping. And that starts to really hurt people. Okay. Because there's lots of muscles, lots of muscles gripping to try and keep them on.
Well, that's been so interesting. And I'm sure for the women who are listening today, they're going, hail the stiletto. They're very happy to hear what you had to say about it because, you know, It's been an icon of a shoe for so many people, you know, and, you know, you hear all these horror stories and, you know, you're going to ruin your feet forever if you keep wearing them. And so, you know, that's really good to hear.
Yeah. So yeah, some people are fine and others not.
Yeah. It's that individual thing. Robin, it has been absolutely amazing to hear all this information about the foot. and how it's connected to the whole body. It, you know, it's certainly been eye-opening for me, and I'm sure it has for all our viewers and listeners. And in saying that, if you like what Robyn's been saying, on her website, all her details will be in the show notes where you'll be able to book in or check out her services, or any of you have a couple of links. That you have. Yeah, that will be in the show notes as well. Is there anything else that you have?
Um, so I can put a little article about how to self-treat with your bunion. Oh, about the child carrying pattern. That's been— and it's got information for practitioners. So someone's take that and go, can you help me with undo this?
Yeah. Oh, that'll be so helpful because that's what we need. We need information to be able to advocate for ourselves. We need that kind of information. Yeah.
And for the practitioners out there, um, my Advanced Foot and Ankle Therapy, um, platform, um, is, is up and running. Um, so yeah, so that, and that's, um, the free course teaches them some really useful stuff, how I work and how I work with the laser and how I unlock the foot.
Very helpful. Thank you, Robyn. It's been a pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome. I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom: Taking Back Control of Your Health, at life-onus.com.
