PRINCE MASHELE: Who's the Power Behind South Africa’s President ?

White business people must take responsibility for what they have produced. And by the way, some of us warned them. They didn't listen. Say, hey, you're backing the wrong horse here. Now they know that their money is gone.

How we got so many people wafting around on 3.5 million and 2.5 million. We're actually paying out money for people to do absolutely f-all.

There are a lot of important business people, dying to say names, who Cyril calls and says, will you run my COVID operation, they jump. Will you be on part of the national dialogue? They jump.

So he knows that these guys, the criminals, have actually mobilised people to vote for him. They tell him, you are going nowhere and you will do our bidding.

So, question, who's the real power behind the president? You know Cyril, he's indecisive, can't make a move on anything, and maybe everyone has files on him, photographs on him. Who's the power behind the president?

He has two sources of power, and this will shock you. The first source of power is white business. Go and look at who gave Cyril money, correct, to become ANC president. He raised almost a billion rand to become—

CR17.

Yes, yeah, to become ANC president. Let me tell you, you know as I know That money came from white business people. Correct. So white people must, white business people must take responsibility for what they have produced. And by the way, some of us warned them. They didn't listen. Say, hey, you're backing the wrong horse here. Now they know that their money is gone. So that's a fair source of power.

Although, and keep your thought, the alternative was Mrs. Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma.

I was going to say, you can't really blame the white business guys because what was the alternative? But here's the thing. If I were white business at the time, or business people at the time, I would have starved the entire ANC of money, all of them.

Correct.

I would never have given Cyril a cent. Or anyone. I would never have given Khoza Zana a cent. I would have pumped money into opposition.

Correct.

In order for opposition to increase their votes and the ANC to be starved. So what did they do? They actually fed a monster.

Perpetuated the problem.

They fed a monster and the monster has turned around to eat their animals. So that's the first source of power, white business, and they must wake up.

I think they are waking up.

Yeah. The second source of power are criminals within the ANC, criminal network in the ANC. So in the ANC, here is Cyril, and here are the criminals around him. They say to him, we put you there because we mobilised the votes for you. Remember, these are the guys who went around villages and townships distributing white business people's money to buy votes in order for Cyril to be voted to be president. So he knows that these guys, the criminals, have actually mobilized people to vote for him. They tell him, you are going nowhere and you will do what we— you will do our bidding. So the criminals are Cyril's source of power, and perversely in unison with white business. It's a very strange— which is extraordinary.

I think Cyril is the power there because he's there because we haven't got anything better. I mean, if you look down, interestingly, we have, I think, I may stand to correction, we have 34 cabinet ministers in this country and we have a 63 million population. We have another 38 deputy or more deputy ministers Japan, who have 126 million population, twice our population, have 19 cabinet ministers.

Argentina has 10.

I will ask, I mean, of Japan and South Africa, who is the more dynamic economy? And I mean, we've got all that manpower and woman. How we got so many people wafting around on 3.5 million and 2.5 million. This is our biggest—

It's just been increased last week.

This is our biggest problem that we are actually paying out money for people to do absolutely f-all.

You know, I've been speaking out publicly against corporates, calling them cowards, colluders. They don't like it.

I know they don't.

And I've picked on some people in particular. I won't mention names other than Martin Kingston, who sort of is ANC-lite.

He's dreadful.

And but there are a lot of important business people, dying to say names, who Cyril calls and says, will you run my COVID operation, they jump. Will you be on a, will you go to America on my behalf? They jump. Will you be on part of the national dialogue? They jump. They're still colluding with him.

But Rob, if I may say against both of you, I mean, in defense of white business, what was the alternative? The ANC, a majority party comes to you and says, we want your help to win the next election. We'll do this, we'll do that for you, whatever else you think.

Fund the opposition. Fund the opposition.

No, no, but because the opposition don't have enough credibility at the time. They do now. So yeah, I know, but I'm talking, we're talking back, going back then about white business thought, yeah, we need to survive. We are about, I mean, I remember going back into, I think it was 2005, when Paul Harris was going to run an advert in the papers about corruption and about criminality, et cetera, et cetera. And the ANC said, no, you don't do that because we'll pull all our bank accounts. And they said, oops, sorry, no. Okay, I might have the date wrong, but The general story is true. So RMB or FNB probably pulled back on that. We were not going to run this advert, which would've been very useful for South Africa, but to say what is going on here.

He chickened out.

He basically, someone said, listen, we are running a business here. We can't have all these accounts drawn, et cetera, et cetera. Now that I have immense sympathy for that because It's actually, you've really got totalitarianism there. You've got some guy saying, you will do this, you will do that. I don't have sympathy for that.

At what point do you stand up against the spine and do what's right for the country?

No, you should have. Because it's not your shareholding that's going down the drain. Nonetheless.

But no, no, there is another way of looking at it. You see, the problem with these white business people who gave money to Cyril, they can't use their imagination. That's the problem. All they see—

I like what's coming.

Yeah, all they see, it's Cyril on the one hand and the DA on the other hand, and Khoza. That's all they see. Yeah, but here is the thing. Let me ask you a question so that you can see. There's a point I want to make. Do you know a gentleman called Bantu Holomisa? Yes, we all know, right? General, ex-general, right? We all know him. Is he a corrupt man? What you know, what you know.

No, no, I would think light corruption.

Yeah, you see, it's interesting. This is the point I want to make. Why is it that white business didn't pick on Holomisa and say, we are going to pump—

correct—

a lot of money behind you, you're our guy, you are our guy. We can see that your problem is that you are a one-man show, but it's because you don't have resources. We will make sure that we have the necessary resources to build a formidable machinery that is going to topple the ANC. Why didn't they do it? It's because they cannot. Imagine, here's the thing, elections are about money. If you gave me 2 billion tomorrow, let me tell you, I would remove the ANC in 2029. They wouldn't even get 10%. Give me that money, I'll show you how to do it.

But what would you do with it?

But then they took the money and—

You'd build a structure?

Yeah, I would build a massive movement in South Africa, in every village. Yeah, I would print t-shirts. I'd print 40 million t-shirts.

PM ones.

Yeah, I would print 40 million t-shirts.

Get the right PM.

In South Africa, how many people do we have? 63 million, right?

Yeah.

Assuming adults are 40 million.

Safe.

Just make sure that every South African, every adult South African wears that t-shirt. If you do that, suddenly this party that looked like a one-man show, it's now a mass movement. And then that party wins elections. So what did they do? They took money and fed the monster. That's what I mean by lack of imagination.

But let me ask a question now. Is the white businesses, or let's call them corporate, completely captured? Is it too late? Because they all have DEI on the board, PIC as a shareholder, unions, you know, ballerinas on the board.

Well, but don't you just completely capture? I mean, we'll see what Prince says, but I mean, I think that people are beginning to turn around and see reality.

But do they still have the courage to have that creative approach?

Yeah, but they're going to say, "Shit, we are." I mean, I think you guys have said before, I mean, we have Venezuela, the bus is hanging over like in The Italian Job, you know, it's like that. You've got to get to the other end of the bus to get it back on. Michael Caine.

Yeah, Michael Caine.

Not a lot of people know that. But I mean, it's really, we are in a desperate situation and I think white business knows that. And I think white business is probably going to come around to thinking, "It's all very well schmoozing up to the guys who, when they had 60% and over 50%, now it's not looking quite so good. It's the same as horse racing. I mean, you're not going to back a complete— your donkey, your dead donkey. We're not going to get on the dead donkey or the dead horse. So yeah, let's hope, I mean, that our confidence in them is justified, right?

Yeah, let me answer this question. You see, the idea, this concept of tradition, it's very Powerful tradition. Tradition. The way things have been done, we stick to it. So the tradition is we support the ANC, the biggest football team. Exactly. Tradition.

Yeah, it was the Liberation Party, the party that freed my parents, the party that, you know, white business, black business.

And anyone who's worried about the future of the country must get out of that traditional mode of thinking and say Is there something new that can be created? Is there something— is there a new way of doing things?