ROB HERSOV & KAROU CHAROU: From Comedy to Kingmaker in South Africa

The country is failing. We as an Indian community are sitting with a plethora of Indian qualified people who have been sidelined.

The Indian community in South Africa punches above its weight. Second to none. Why are Indian South Africans still voting ANC?

The African community is now starting to realise race is not how you choose people. You're supposed to choose them on merit. If you want to build South Africa and Indians around the world are successful, Ask yourself, what is the model? The model is you work hard, you study, you push yourself.

When is a member of the South African Indian community going to play for the Springboks?

Indian people are a very, very dignified race. There is no way a dignified Indian guy is going to take his head and shove it up a white man's ass for no reason.

Karoo charoo, the great matter. What do we call you? Now, is Karu Charu your real name?

No, it's not actually. Thank you, Rob, for having me. And yeah, there is a real name that came out during the elections. And it's, are you ready for it?

Don't say M-O-N-A-T-H-O-D-I-D-L-Y.

No, my name is Thanasekaran Rubenathan Mudliy. Thanasekaran being my first name. Rubenathan, I carry my father's name. And of course, Mudliy is my surname.

You were born in Durban, grew up in Durban, live in Durban, are in Durban. Is that right?

Yeah, all that's correct. I had a small stint in Johannesburg for about 8 years for my comedy career. But if you may, I'm going to ask you a question to let the listeners know, because it's important for me in case you forget. Just inform them, how did you and I first make contact? Because that's an interesting story.

So somebody sent me one of the funniest things I've ever seen on the internet. I mean, maybe the funniest thing is the hot crazy matrix followed by your phone call with Putin.

Yeah.

And people sent it to me. People sent it to me and it was so damn funny. I said, I've got to meet this guy. He's a genius. And we got connected and that's how it happened. And I've always loved your humor and you need to do more of it. I know you're a serious dude now and a politician, but I love your humor. I love you. I love it. I think it's brilliant. I think you're, you're a rock, rock and roll comedian. But you know, the interesting thing for our viewers, a lot of comedians get into politics or political analysis. I mean, if you look at all the YouTubers that are really successful, uh, Jimmy Carr, Constantine Kissen, Francis Foster, all came from the comedy background. So just tell us a little bit about the comedy, your comedy life, because I adore that side of you.

Yeah, no, I'm glad. Firstly, let me just speak on that conversation that we had with, because I remember I was in the kitchen. I got a call from Rob. He said, you know, I'm Rob Wassup. I never heard of Rob Wassup at the time, by the way. And your first line to me was sort of, well, I'm a multimillionaire and money is not an issue. I come from a privileged family and that's why, that's your first line. And then of course we met in Cape Town, which was fantastic. And a lot of people, by the way, Rob, I'd say that cannot believe that I have a relationship with you and that we chat as often as we do and never have that sort of understanding. But anyways, I think the comedy career is what drove me to you. And coincidentally, a lot of people talk about me now that I must have used my comedy career and whatever, yet The comedy career was the backbone of everything I am, of everything I did, and how I even met you and met so many other people. So it's a— and also in my election campaign, they said I must use the M-word, I must stop saying mother and whatever. And then a year later, every one of my fans that I meet on the street, even in politics, keep referring to me as the mother, as that thing there.

So explain what the madre is, the great mother. Explain what it is.

Mother. Madhir, M-A-D-H-I-R, in the Indian context, it's got numerous different meanings. And then most importantly, it's got a sense of the great one, the soul, the person, the boss, you know, use all those words, the dude. So if I say Rob Herzog is the Madhir, it means it's got a great context. However, I must add in the Indian context, if you say, use the F word before the Madhir, then I'm being derogatory towards you. So the effing means I'm trying to be derogatory, but in every sense of the word, it has a good connotation. Say he's a mother. He's the mother.

So tell me, you grew up in Durban, mom and dad, brothers and sisters, a normal life.

Yeah, I'm a pretty average citizen.

I mean, finished matric. Did you do matric? Did you go to university?

I did matric and I went to university. And maybe there I can pick on something you, you know, early on you mentioned that a lot of comedians got into politics and all of that. And strangely enough, and I must say mostly in my own community, to be honest, people sort of classify me as a comedian, being a clown, being an idiot, that I've got no sense of brainwork. They associate with a circus clown. And as you may well know, some of the brightest minds come from a comedic background who are able to weave stories and make stories be funny and yet have a message that comes across in that context. I was a straight-A student from the time I entered primary school. I was always in my top 3 or top 2, challenging for top position. I was always in the school debating team. I was a captain of the sports team. I was an all-round, if I may say so, a great student. I was also a troublemaker in school because I would buck the system, but they always respected me because I was smart. I knew what I was doing. And also, you know, not to put shade on today's matriculants, I studied under the House of Delegates matriculant paper, which was one of the hardest in the country. And I got a university entrance pass to study BSc. At that time, I think only medical school was higher than going into BSc, where you're doing mathematics, you're doing physics, you're doing biology. I had university great entrance, you know. The sad part is that there was such a big jump from school to university that I didn't really cope. The gap was too big. And I had no support system. My dad had died when I was 7, 8 years old. My aunt basically paid for my first year of university. And even at that point, I realized that, listen, I'm in trouble here. So what I did as an 18-year-old, I went up to the dean's office. I said, dude, I think I'm going to fail this year. What are my options? He said, well, if you leave before the exam, we'll give you half your fees back. So as an 18-year-old, I made a decision. I quit. I took the half fees. I went to Technikon and then I started studying for a diploma there. So I didn't waste the money. I entered it into another avenue of studies. And yeah, that's what I did.

So after Technikon, age 22 or whatever, did you get a job or did you go straight into comedy?

When I went to Technikon, And I must mention the gap from university to Technikon. In university, my first year of, my first lecture of maths, the lecturer used 6 boards and did the whole of calculus that I did the entire metric year, he did it in 1 hour. And then I realised I'm in trouble. And then I go to Technikon and the lecturer sits on the table and dangles his legs and he says, we've got so little work and so much of time, take the day off. It was such a jump. And then I became a straight A student again. I was just getting As. But anyways, while I was there, I applied for a job because I had no dad, I had no support system. So studying was always going to be a problem financially. I could add the brain, didn't have the resources. So I saw this thing where you, it's an earn while you learn scheme, you know, study 6 months and work 6 months. I went for the interview. I got the job. It was at a textile company to study textile technology. And what a pleasure it was to work for 6 months and then study for 6 months and get paid while you were checking on. And it was one of the best experiences of my life was to go to Technikon study. Don't go to tech, you still get paid, sit in the sun, go for lectures. And I ended up studying, I ended up getting a diploma there for textile technology, was recognized around the world, uh, to work in the textile industry. I ended up being assistant to a QA manager. I was so into the work that I was doing, like community activism and my own self, and I knew of self-worth. So there was this lift club that we should travel to work every day in Hammersdale. One morning I'm standing outside on the road waiting for my transport to pick me up with my lunch tin in my hand. And it hit me. I turned around, opened my driveway gate, walked down the driveway. I was living in my own outbuilding. I went into bed, put my pajamas on, went to bed. And I'd never been to work a day in my life. I've never from then worked for anyone a day in my life. Never. I was 24 years old. I refused to work for someone. I believed I was better than them. I believed I was worth more than that. My job was stifling me. I didn't like it. I didn't enjoy it. I just left. They called me for interviews. They called me for disciplinary hearing. I said, fire me. I don't want your job. And I just left. And since then, I've never worked for anyone.

And how have you paid the bills? Because everyone's got to pay the bills at some point.

It's been a hustle for me from day one. So I set up businesses. I was an entrepreneur. I was a, I owned a modeling agency. I ran a taxi business for a long time. I was doing, uh, brokering, like making t-shirts, caps, banners, all of these things I used to do. And that's why I tell people there's not a reason for you not to earn money. So I woke up every day, although I was unemployed, but I made it work. I found a way. I found a gap. One of the things I love doing is I'm an event manager. I like eventing. I like doing events. I like doing exciting things. So I started doing events. I started hosting shows. I started my own venue. I started hosting shows. I host com— so, and then MC thing. I was at a friend's, I was at a mall and a friend of mine was the PRO and they were doing this draw for India and whatever. And the MC let them down. She said, can you go do it? I walked on stage. I just took the mic and I just started rolling. When I finished, this lady came up to me and she says, I'd like to hire you. How much do you charge? I said, you get paid to do this? And that time was like 200 rand or something, right? So she hired me and that's how I started to become an MC by just by that chance. And then when I would speak to comedians and host shows, I was just the host. So I would be chatting with them and one lady said to me, you're a funny guy, you must come on stage. So I said, okay, I'll go on stage. And here's how Karachara was born. I was the venue manager. It was my event. So I was the sound guy. I was the lighting guy. I was the event guy. I was a door guy and I was the comedian on stage hosting. The event. So in case I failed, I got myself this massive Afro wig, I bought these big glasses, and my wife made this oversized coat, like it looked really zany and funny. I wanted to disguise who I was because in case I failed, nobody would know who I was. So I went on stage, I clapped this thing like proper, right? There were 4 other comics, I clapped it proper. I finished there, I took my coat out, I went back up to my office because I had to pay people off. I was still the venue manager. The biggest compliment came from a guy who knew me well. He came and he comes to my shows, my, my, the shows that I hosted without me. He comes to my office door, stands at the door, leans against the door. He says, another great show, but who's that guy with the wig? Hey, that guy was brilliant. And that's how Carrochato was born. He, he, he didn't even know that it was me. And from there, the outfits just started to get different. I started to own the outfits by coincidence. It was never planned. it just started to evolve.

Karoo, the Indian population in South Africa were not treated very well under apartheid, but they're not being treated very well under the ANC either. And, and I know this is an important thing in your life. Is this, is, is this what is driving you into politics? Tell me what gave the momentum for you to decide, I'm going to get my hands dirty. And make a difference?

Well, I've always been conscientized to what's happening with the Indian community. I've been very pro from even from before maybe I realized it. So even when I was doing comedy, I would analyze where we stand as a people. And way back in 2010, I was on stage and I told my audience, I had a sold out audience. By the way, at Cebaya, I'm one of the most successful artists, more than 40 sold out shows. I sold out the Lyric Theatre and I sold out the Theatre of Marcellus before the days of social media. As a single artist, I sold out. I was on stage and every time I talk and communicate, there's always a message somewhere along the line. And I was talking something funny about how you complain about things. And I said to my audience, which was 99% Indian, I said, you must understand your worth in this province. I said, you see me standing on stage. You don't need me. I need you on the seat. I need you. I said, see this casino. You don't need the casino, the casino needs you. You see, the more, the more, I said, the day you know your worth, you know what you're worth. You don't go cap in hand. You demand what you're worth. If I'm a show, if you paid for the ticket, you demand to get a good show. You're not coming there to support me as a charity. You're paying your fee, you get what you want. So I started telling them, understand your worth. And back in 2010, the Indian community was dominating the retail, the, what shall I say, as consumers. So I said to them, imagine if all the Indians stopped going to Sabai Casino. Imagine if all the Indians one day didn't go to Suncoast Casino. So I'm going to tell you something as an artist, right? 500 people watch me, one person, but I'm watching 500 people's expression. And I could see this light bulb go off in their head. They laughed and then suddenly they stepped back and said, ah, actually, I never thought about that because the Indian population were the backbone of the Sabaya Casino, backbone of Suncor's Casino, backbone of the racing industry, backbone of the malls. They were the ones supplying, they were the ones with the cash flow. They were the ones making the economy run. And then they realized that, and then in 2010, I said, what if one day, and we call ourselves charos, by the colloquial term is charos for India, right? I said, what if all the charos park pa the posy? Now park means to stay, posy means house. So park pa the posy essentially meant stay at home. So the idea was back in 2010. 10 years later in 2020, I put that idea into operation. On my own, I formed a small organization. I said, On the 12th of December, 2020, Charos are going to stay away from Sabaya Casino, stay away from Suncoast, don't go anywhere, stay at home, support your local economy. And it had an impact. It worked. People called me from Sabaya Casino and said, dude, see what's happening here. Casino is almost empty. So the people rallied around the fact that we needed to show what was it for. We needed to show the community, we needed to show the province, We need to show ourselves that we worthy, that we have value, that we need to be respected, that we've been taken for granted. That was the purpose of that. It was not to damage the economy, just to make our own people understand. If you don't go to Suncoast and 1,000 people don't go to Suncoast, Suncoast feels the effect. Accordingly, Suncoast Casino, Sabaya Casino, the malls must show you respect. They must show you they value you. They must put back into your community. That was the reason.

And you know, when we look at the contribution of the South African Indian community to the South African economy, South African cultural scene, the anti-apartheid battles, it's way beyond the per capita numbers. I mean, I think, how big is the Indian, South African Indian community in South Africa? 1.5%, 2%?

In the province of KZN, it is only about 1 million, 1.1 million. We only 9% of the population, less than 10% of the population in KZN. And yet we're the powerhouse in terms of the economy, hiring the most amount of people, most amount of businesses run by Indian people. But we're less than 9% of 88%, 88% of the population is Black. So the numbers are small.

You know, there's a lot of examples of incredibly successful South African-born Indians, not just in South Africa, but overseas. So Devesh McCann, who went to Michaelhouse, is a billionaire. And, uh, he's the number one, number one South African in the tech industry. And there's some big South Africans. I mean, Elon Musk is Los Angeles. Devesh is San Francisco, but there are hundreds more doing incredible things. But my question to you is the following. Because of Pravin Gordhan and people like that, the ANC has taken the Indian community for granted. And I think you know it and you've been saying it. And, you know, when it comes to BEE, the Indian South Africans and the coloured South Africans are not black enough. You're not getting the benefit of it. So you have identified that you're not happy with it.

Where did—

tell us what 1860 means and then lead us into your political career. Because for the viewers that don't know why you put 1860 on your shirt, I know.

I was never going into politics. And then when I became an activist on social media, when my social media, that's how you got to know me, social media, after being a very successful comic, it evolved into Facebook. Then Facebook became popular, then social media. Then one of my biggest pages, you know, back in 2021, 22, I had over 100,000 on one page alone. Back then, you know, my following was really great. I was very popular. And when I was talking, people were gravitating towards me. And I went, why are you calling me a leader? I'm not a leader. What are you saying to me? I must go and do this. And then I realized there's a vacuum of leadership. Vacuum. There was a vacuum. There was a space. Nobody. The reason they were gravitating towards me, and you were in the same position a couple of years ago when you gave your talk at that Biz News. You just did a talk. You weren't going out there to be an activist from what I know. And suddenly Robbersoft just took off, if I may say, because you said something that everybody thought, but nobody had the guts to say. And then yes, Rob came out and said this. So on the same token, I've been saying things and people are gravitating because I was saying what's in their head, but they couldn't verbalize. I was just saying it. I was running with my platform. I was running rampant and I was challenging anyone and everyone. I would call people up on a live telephone call and put them to the sword. I would call them up live and say, dude, you're on live. Answer the question. And so they started to fear me to such an extent that if I call them up, they'll say, you're not live at the moment, eh, you're not live at the moment. So I was running, then I realized there's a vacuum. And then I said, okay, let me start to become more. I started to hone myself. I started to become, I then realized the power of my platform that I could move people, that I could, then I started to understand with great influence comes great power, great power, great responsibility. So I started to become more responsible in what I was saying and what I was doing. Which led me up to a point in the elections, I was trying to support parties, I was trying to bring people up, I was trying to tell Indian people where to go. And then I realized they weren't good enough. And then came the 2024 national election, and it was time to support some parties. And how I got into the elections, by the way, as an independent candidate, the first ever elections that holds independent candidates. I was trying to support a party that was trying to form itself. I was giving them support. Man, those guys didn't know what they were doing. When I questioned them, they kicked me out. They said, I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm doing. And that was the guy who inspired me to go onto the internet. I found out independent candidates open. I logged the request, my application. It was accepted. And I then became one of the 11 independents in the first election to allow independent candidates. I was one of 11 independents in the country. I was the only one in the entire province of KZN. And I was the only Indian to stand as an independent. And my election campaign, if I may say, I had, I ended up 7th in the province, by the way, out of 33 parties. I ended up 7th. I was beaten only by the major political parties. I beat ActionSA, I beat Patriotic Alliance, I beat all of them. I ended up 7th in the province. And if I may say, understand my election campaign, how it worked. The guy who came second to me, you might know him, he's called Zaki Ahmad in Cape Town. Zaki Ahmad is a major activist, right?

Yeah.

So Zaki Ahmad, he had 10,000 votes. I had 12,000 and somewhat votes. But to put our campaign into perspective, Rob, you'll appreciate this. I entered the— Zaki Ahmad canvassed for one entire year. I only had 6 weeks. My entire campaign was 6 weeks. Zaki Ahmad had 400 volunteers. I had 15 guys in the whole province. Zaki Ahmad had a PR manager, office, all of that. I had nothing. And here's the killer. Zaki Ahmad's budget to run his campaign. So I'm going to give Rob multiple choice answer. Was A, 1 million, or B, 3 million, or C, 5 million? What do you think was his budget? Zaki Akhmat's budget to get his 10,000 votes was 11 million rands. He spent 11 million rands in one year. I spent 180,000 rand and I still beat him. So I ended up 7th in the province. And from there, Rob, famase, I made a pledge while I was campaigning that I will form a political party. And if you want to lead into this now, maybe that I ended up 7th, right? 6th position was the NFP. The NFP got the seat. I missed it by 5,000 votes. Now do you see? Now when I tell people, when they told me, what would you do with one seat? And the NFP is holding the province. And the country to ransom on that one seat. Rob, you can appreciate that.

That's amazing. I didn't know that.

That's why when you tell people, Rob, now what's the power of one vote? What's the power of your vote? And you know how many people I meet now and they say, KC, I'm so sorry. I didn't vote for you. I didn't trust you. I said, well, what's done is done. But I would have been the kingmaker on that one seat in the province. I formed the party because I made a promise during my election, whether I get a seat or not, I'll form the party. And the reason for the party was the following. Rob, based on my popularity, I can stand in a ward and get elected. I'm very popular. It showed in the election results. I will stand in a ward, I'll get elected for city council, come next local government. I know that. But My objective is to get many seats because many seats means you have more power. More power means you have a, you can effect change. So my goal is not for me only. My goal is for my community, for my city.

If you could define your manifesto, you know, just give the viewers some points on, on what you believe in. I mean, you're obviously a bit successful businessman and you've hustled and you've created something from nothing. Your aunties gave you a chance in life. You didn't have a dad. You've done an amazing job. I mean, congratulations. You're, you are a South African entrepreneurial hero. So I would think you believe in, you know, capitalism with a social side to it that, you know, probably pro-West civilization. I mean, give us some manifesto items without getting yourself into trouble.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Well, for now. I, my ma— let's, let's just take local government, right? So there are many people, let's use local government as, as where we would stand as a party. There are many parties vying for the Indian vote, the Democratic Alliance, the Patriotic Alliance, then there's new ratepayers movement. All good. They want good governance. They want accountability. They want good ward councillors to look after you. We offer the same. Service delivery, good councillors know what they're doing. We support you, all of that. We make you do your job well so the people get the service delivery. What separates me in ita kueni? Ita kueni, the largest Indian population in the country. Indian population, the largest suppliers or investors in the coffers of the City Council, but yet getting the poorest of service from City Council, being treated like second-grade citizens. Our citizens in our Indian areas predominantly are sitting with electricity bills, $40,000, $50,000, $60,000, $80,000 due to a fault by the municipality. Predominantly Indian areas suffering under this. So our mandate when we get into City Council is to be able to address issues that affect the Indian community. We're very clear, we have a pro-Indian mandate. I'm not ashamed to say it. I'm unapologetic about it. The largest contributors to the economy in Itaewon need to get what they pay for. And just recently, simple things like this, which the other guys are fighting for service delivery and leaving these issues out. A week ago, Itaewon put out a post about 62,000 applicants for Metro Police. I've never seen in my area one advert for for that Metro Police job? I've never seen one answer. 62,000 applicants, all well and good. When I'm in City Council, I want to ask the question, how many were Indian applicants? And how many Indian applicants did you take? That's all I want to know. Now this moves away from just service delivery issues because we build our economy. The country is failing because wrong people are in the job. We as an Indian community are sitting with a plethora There's a plethora of Indian qualified people who have been sidelined. They can offer the city expertise and skills, but they've been sidelined. If the city is following protocol, I don't mind. But all I'm saying is, show me the figures. Show me how you've allocated these funds. I mean, last year there was a fund for spaza shops and all of that. Show me how you've allocated this fund, then I'm okay with it. But if you're not, then you're being discriminatory. You're only pushing it into a certain sector. And that's not right. And we're failing as a community. You know, Rob, my other thing is, let's say the Metro Police, right? And police as a whole. The reason we have maybe corruption is that, it's like, let's say we're all white police officers. That'd be better. Then white police officers can come together and make a plan. Let's use the white because we use other example. Than we being in a certain way. White police officers can make a plan together, corruption rules. But if you had a white guy, an Indian guy, an African guy, and a colored guy all together in the same roadblock, the chances of you being corrupt now go out the window because you're not on the same, they're not necessarily on the same wavelength. You know, if I'm sitting in a scenario where I'm an officer and the guys want to do a bad deal and I don't agree, they will victimize me. So I'm almost forced to agree to go with the system. So that's another way to change or root out corruption is to bring in people from other race groups, other cultures so that we don't follow the same thing. So it's not just about putting Indian people there. It's about diversifying our country and people in positions so we don't end up in this position. But clearly, like I said, I'll answer the question. Itaipuini needs to have, you know, Gaytan McKenzie said it for the colored community. He said, we need our seat at the table. From the Indian community point of view, we demand our seat at the table. We're the second largest population in the province. We contribute immensely to the economy. We are almost the biggest employers of people in the province. We demand our seat at the table. And when we get that seat, Rob, I'm going to move into what Piet Cronewald is doing. The African community is now— Piet Cronewald is the hero. He is the man. He is the man. Whoa, he's the man. And I've said this on my video, Pete Cronenberg is no god. He's no hero. All he's doing is doing his job well. And because the bar is set so low by the previous ministers, anything Pete Cronenberg does is being seen as miraculous. So to the African community and others out there, when we get into city council, we will show you what we can do for everybody. But unfortunately, I have to get where I am. Pete Cronenberg got where he got on the back of the white community, not the African community. The African community is now starting to realize race is not how you choose people. You're supposed to choose them on merit. But unfortunately, to prove myself to you, the rest of itikwini and the rest of the country, you've got to put me in that position. And to get in that position, my electorate will put me there. But once we get there, What we will do will benefit everybody. The country is moving away from race politics. It's moving towards people of merit running the city, running the country, and we are going to be there. And if I may say this, Rob, I've already prophesied in 2029. I've already said it now. I'm saying it for 8 months. In 2029, I will be a minister in the National Assembly. One more step. I want to be a minister. I'll be in the National Assembly. I'll be a minister. That's my goal.

I actually back you to do that. And I think you would be a fantastic minister in the new coalition of 2029. I really do. Which, uh, which portfolio, give me 2 or 3 portfolios that interest you where you think you could do a great job. Just a wishlist.

I haven't given it too much thought, to be honest. Um, portfolios that interest me would be, uh, arts and culture, uh, and safety and security too. Almost different parts of the country, but because of the impact it has, you know, and how it can affect people. Arts and culture, because of the social cohesion aspect in this country, what it means to bring people, especially from KZN, especially the social cohesion issue in KZN, and how we fix that. And I think they're failing as a body to really bring the communities together. So like two extreme ends, safety and security, or are they in that capacity? That you really impact on people's lives, you know, in that, not that the others don't, but I think I'll have a passion and be committed to that sort of thing in that way.

Tell my viewers what happened in 1860. What is 1860?

And you know, when I walk around with this shirt, I actually wore both for you, both logos. When I walk around and white people ask me, colored people ask me, I'm intrigued and I'm happy because when I explained to them, they said, oh wow, I didn't know that. So 1860 is the year the first indentured laborers arrived in South Africa. The 16th of November, 1860. By the way, Rob, my party launched in 2024, 16th of November, 2024. On the very same day, it was momentous. It was historic. It was significant. I made it happen on that day, 16th of November, when our forefathers landed here on the shores of this country. Came here, and a lot of people need to know this, you know, they say the Indian community has got, they were put on a pedestal or they were more, we came here as slaves, Rob. If you look at something, if you look at South Africa now, when we were in Durban, and there's a ship leaving to some foreign country, you won't jump on that ship. It'd be the poorest of the poor, the people who got nothing, the people who need a chance, the people, you won't leave your family. So the people who jumped on that ship really had nothing to lose. They had nothing. They were taking a chance. So that means we didn't come here with the brightest sparks. We didn't come here with the most intelligent people. We came with average human beings who came here to cut the sugarcane. They didn't even know each other. They were strangers put together. And now, 16 November 2025, only 165 years, we went from slaves to captains of industry. To the best in the medical field, to the best in the accounting field, some of the best attorneys, some of the best magistrates. And the reason I'm saying that, and even, and I'm going to say this now, I'm going to speak to the African community if I may say. I'm not saying this to put you down or tell you where you fail. I'm saying we have a model. If the model works, Rob, from a business point of view, if a businessman wants to hear about business, should ask you, what did you do? What did your family do? How did you get there? Follow the model. From, if you want to build South Africa and Indians around the world are successful, ask yourself, what is the model? The model is you work hard, you study, you push yourself beyond. You don't accept second best. You keep striving, you keep pushing. I mean, right now, the matric results in KZN, top 10, 5 Indian students in the top 10, 11 Indian students in the top 20 in the country. It didn't just happen. It's a DNA. It's inbred in us to achieve, to succeed, to push. And if it comes to politics in the country, again, we are sitting with immense talent in our community, Indian community, and we've just thrown them aside. We have pushed them into the rubbish heap because we feel they don't contribute to this country. For my election, and they said to me, they all laughed. They said, what would you do? You know, I told them about how service delivery is failing. I said, if I was in, I'll employ my connections from Phoenix and Chatsworth. So they laughed. It was meant to be a joke. But my connections from Phoenix and Chatsworth are qualified electricians, qualified plumbers, qualified carpenters. But they're sitting at home. The guy who's fixing the pipe on the road is unqualified. His boss is unqualified. Hence, hence the pipe is breaking. They're breaking again. So that's what I'm saying. We're sitting on this talent.

Karu, I need to ask you, because recently somebody, and I don't know who, made that terrible comment that Indians should go back to India. Tell us what that was all about. Why is she— I think it was a she— why she said it, and you know, and you stood up bravely and correctly against that terrible comment.

But tell us the story. But if I may say, Rob, the person was already caught on camera. There are many others. There's a lot more. It's endemic. It's a problem. It's a problem. She was caught on camera. And by the way, last year, just over a year ago, a sitting city councillor in ANC in Itaquini said the same thing to a DA Indian councillor, go back to Bombay. An ANC sitting councillor, to this date, they haven't identified him. So it's a problem. By the way, in 2020 or something, Jessie Duarte was, she said the ANC is tribalistic and racist towards Indian people. She said it. She was inside the NEC and she said the ANC is tribalistic. They call Indians amakhulas. ANC members. It's not a once-off thing. It's something that's endemic. And it's something that we as a community and me, I fight on a daily basis. If you remember our friend Penwell, he did a podcast with Lotta saying Indian employers are the worst in the country.

I remember that. And then I'm a Neanderthal.

So I challenged him on that. It's the same thing like saying African people are the biggest criminals in the country because the prison is full of them. No, by population-wise, 80% of the population, 80% would be there. 2% will be Indian. In KZN, majority of employers are Indian. So if you're going to come across an employer, you're going to come across an Indian employer. And if you only listen to one part of the story, employers always bitch and moan about not being treated well. But nobody speaks from the other side about how you are not doing your job properly or you're not conforming to what is asked of you. So I felt that it was a very unfair blanket statement to make about the Indian community. And it perpetuated this racism narrative, which continues to affect us as a community. Might I add, Rob, in case it ain't I'm not sure how much of time you spent here. The Indian, the system was made as follows. There'll be an African community, there'll be an Indian community, and then there will be the white community. It was set out like that. So we were the buffers. We are the buffer. We take the knock from the African community. It's like this, across the road, the guy's got a shack and no water. You across the road, you got a house with an awning and a car. You can see the disparity, but we, We are the first people on the firing line. Why do you think July 2021 unrest, it was not the white ethnic, it was predominantly the Indian ethnic. And that's how it is set up. And for sure there's going to be conflict. But I must say the same as well. You know the 2021 unrest and people spoke about racism in Indian community. How then racism doesn't appear once in 50 years? If it's endemic, it'll manifest itself in numerous ways. Right now, Rob, even for the white community and African community watching this, KZN, Chatswood, Phoenix are the poster child for the rainbow nation. We coexist every day from schooling to shopping malls. Every aspect of life, we coexist. Of course, there'll be problems, but historically, there's not been racial issues. So how come one dark day in 2021, it became a racist issue? Whereas every day, African community, Indian community lives side by side in KZN. How is it that only one day you choose to say it was a racist issue? If there's a fire in informal settlement, Rob, the first responder is the Indian community. If there's a flood, the first responder is the Indian community. Every week there are feeding schemes where the Indian community is. There's a thing we call Seva in our Hindu community. Seva means service to God. It means you go out and you do this work. It's voluntary. It's humanitarianism. There's no cost to it. You do a thing called Seva. It's your own thing to cleanse your heart, to make your peace with God, to go give free meals, offer things out. Every week, temples, mosques, churches are doing Seva. Server in the same community that they say we are racist towards. And that's the biggest myth, it's the biggest lie being spread by people who want to divide us here on the ground. Because we are the first responders. We are the ones who look after them. We are the ones who have their best interests.

The Indian community in South Africa punches above its weight. Second to none. I mean, I can say they're very rare. Maybe the Jews and the Indians in South Africa punch way above their weight, the size of their population. Why are Indian South Africans still voting ANC?

Why?

I mean, I'm shocked when they, when I still, and I don't think many are, but you would think the ANC is discriminatory, racist, you know.

If I had to count 10 people on my hand, I would say 1 person is voting ANC. The rest have lost, they've lost faith, and I can tell you why. And I understand why many people voted with the ANC. So the Natal Indian Congress was formed in 1894 by Mahatma Gandhi. The Natal Indian Congress was the first ever political movement in this country before the ANC, which was formed in 1912. So already, why do you think the name of our party carries the name NIC? It bears the reference to NIC, the first official political party in this country. Formed by Mahatma Gandhi and his members who already realized we needed a voice for Indian people. Natal Indian Congress. They had already organized themselves, had an office, whatever. They were way ahead of the ANC. The Natal Indian Congress helped to form the ANC, showed them the way to become the biggest liberation movement on the continent of Africa. So let me go back to Mahatma Gandhi. A lot of people want to say he's a racist, but he helped give the ANC its voice. He helped form the ANC. That's his roots. So what happened then, the NIC lost its way in the sense that they said, we don't need an Indian voice anymore. They amalgamated into the ANC. So the ANC, the NIC lost its Indian voice and became part of the struggle. I didn't see a problem with that. Really, right? Because they believed in what was going to happen in the future of the country. But sadly, what happened was the Indian population started to be faded away, faded away, pushed out. The first ever cabinet, 1994, Nelson Mandela, who saw the value in Indian people, who saw the value in the struggle, who saw what they did, put them into the cabinet. But since then, eradicated, eradicated, eradicated, moved out. No more. Indians do not play a role. I don't blame young Black South Africans, Africans for not knowing much because the history is not taught. Our involvement in the system is not being told. So you think we just arrived there by ship and took over these things and became all these things and we were nothing. Yet we are sewn into the very fabric. I can tell you, people will tell me, what are you talking about? Even my own Indian people. I cannot compare to the likes of the Fatima Meeres, the Yusuf Dadus, and all of them. They were stalwarts. I am nowhere near them. But they weaved. They were pro-Black. They were pro-all of those things to make sure we have a rainbow nation. But if those people were alive today, they'll be upset with the ANC because the ANC has sold Indian people out. That's the problem. The only people who continue to support the ANC is the old folk who hold on to that belief that the ANC is going to come through. Those are the people holding on. I can tell you, Rob, I've had a certain guy, a businessman, 2 years ago he told me, you're wasting your time, nothing's going to happen. Pro-ANC guy, wasting your time. Today, he's one of my biggest supporters. He suddenly realized, and he's even telling me, I'll offer you support, I'll give you financial support, I'll give you strategic support. Because when nobody believed in me, I believed in it. I kept on pushing, pushing, persevering. 2 years ago, they called me a clown. They called me an idiot. Didn't know what I was doing. Now they're saying, hold the phone. Maybe this guy is onto something.

Well, you are onto something and I'm very proud to know you. And I'm very proud to have known you in your comedic career and now your political career. And if you, when you become a minister in 2029, You will have deserved it. I will be the first person to call and congratulate you. But what I want to ask you is, there are a lot of white friends of mine and colored friends of mine that are big fans of yours, and I think would help and support you. How do people, um, and I want to do a shout out to Shailen Govender, he's a buddy of mine in Joburg, he's a mad fan of yours. Hi Shailen, Rob here. Um, how do people support you? What is the website they can go to? How can people donate to get not just you, but more councillors.

Ah, that would be great. So our website is www.1860nicc.org.za. www.1860nicc.org.za. Our email address will be info@1860nicc.org.za. Rob, I must admit it's been an uphill battle for us in terms of— we even— we punching way above our weight limit. We shouldn't be where we are, in fact, as a party, you know, we almost a non-entity in terms of the resources that we have. But I always tell my few members that you keep plugging away. Even our forefathers, when they landed here, they had nothing, but they had a hope and they had a vision. And every day, let me tell you something, Rob, every day is a new day. And every day there's a win for me. Like yesterday, somebody called me up, called me up to say, Casey, I just want to tell you, you make me proud. You make me proud of what you do and what you say. I said, dude, that's my win for today. That's my win. That's my win. You know, it makes us feel everything works. Despite all the haters and the people who hate on you, and you know that people come after you for everything. There's nothing you can do, right? If I may be caro here and say in a comedic way, if you wipe your ass with the right hand, it's a problem. If you wipe your ass with the left hand, it's a problem. If you don't wipe your ass, it's a problem. You know? When you realize that you're not going to please everyone, you'll realize what you're in it for. And I've been through the mud with this, but I say to people, I want to leave a legacy. 1860 NIC Congress must survive after me. It must be a legacy. And I say to people, history will remember my name. That's my thing. History will remember my name because I will leave a mark. I don't care. You know the story about Jesus in his hometown. People didn't believe Jesus in his own town. He had to leave his town to become known, to spread the gospel. But people in your hometown didn't believe in it. My own people don't believe in me, Rob. I'll tell you straight out. My biggest detractors are my own people. I fight them first. They try every day to break my legs, to chop me down. I still keep walking every day because I'm focused on the vision. I'm focused on the goal ahead.

Casey, I think Jesus was an Indian. Jesus was an Indian.

Well, you could have another program on that. You're going to upset a lot of people out there. But anyways, I've studied my own things about that and I stay away from religion now because people get all— Let me tell you, Indian community and religion, especially Christianity, not like the white people and all those, it's very, very finicky. You can't say anything that's going to upset anyone. So let me not just, I've been called the Antichrist, by the way, when I questioned it, I've been called the Antichrist by people. So what's new about that? So yeah, that's where we are as a people, as a party. The so-called thing is we're really battling to keep our heads above the water. But like I say, every day is a new day. And every day somebody wants to offer some support and we take it. And you count the small, don't count what you don't have, count what you have. We have the small things. We have the little steps. And I realized this and I tell my people in my community, for me to be where I am, I had to enter the race in 2024. I had to first start there. I had to fund myself to show people, hey, this guy's got potential. Then they voted for me. Now because I've got a party, now they got faith because I did that. Our next step is 2026. We get seats in city council. We do the job right. There's, oh, this guy's got potential for 2029. So I understand that it's an uphill battle. I understand that we've got to fight these demons. I understand that we've got to do it. I'm not, I don't not understand that. I'm very aware of the problem we have. My own people tell me, KC, but these charos, this, they don't. I said, understand this. We know that. When you know the problem, you know how to deal with the problem. We will fix one at a time. But we have to also prove ourselves. One, prove ourselves again till we reach that stage.

Casey, two last questions. Are you a singer or a dancer?

I would say I'm both.

You probably are.

I could tell you a story about, I was in a band. I was emceeing a gig in a band and this band was practicing and the guy who was the lead singer, I said, yeah, are you a singer? Cause he was horrible. I said, bring the mic here. I sang the song and then I fronted a band in front of 10,000 people. I sang as a lead singer in a band. I sang a song. I said, dude, I think I can do this. And then I sang. So I said, it's not difficult. I chose a song that I think I can do. And I sang and I still do it when I have band shows. The band says, come on, Casey, do a song with us, do a song with us. So I do it. So I think I did both.

And the second question, when is a member of the South African Indian community going to play for the Springboks?

Rugby. So let me give you a scenario. My son was in a previously white school, wanted to play rugby. When he was on the rugby field and he's playing here, my wife is looking in the opposite direction because she doesn't want to see her little son getting hammered by this Brito with the thick thighs and whatever. Yo, just like he was small, he was not built for rugby, but he wanted the The gum guard and the whatevers. It was the worst. Yo, they'll take his shoulders and everything out. We are not built for rugby. We are not built. We are not going to play rugby. And I say, and by the way, I use this joke in my comedy shows. I say to the guys in this, I said, rugby, I said, what is that thing you all go down there? The guy says, it's a scrum. I said, okay, scrum, man. I said, who came up with this stupid idea that you will go down and one guy will put his head inside the other guy's ear and one guy will come? Who came up with this? Stupid idea. I said, let me tell you something and be quite clear about this. Indian people are very, very dignified race. There is no way a dignified Indian guy is to take his head and shove it up a white man's ass for no reason. We refuse. On that note, that's a joke I've been using for 15 years.

On that note, Casey, I love you, man. You're a fantastic South African, a great friend, a great comedian. And you're going to be a fantastic contribution to South Africa.

I'm so grateful that you've, you've, you've seen my stuff and I'm so grateful. Even this interview, the mere fact that you associated me brings me value. The mere fact that I know Rob Hersoff, who he is, and that Rob wants me on this interview, and I've interviewed you before on my channel as well. It's important because people attach value to who you with. And I've seen that, especially my community. So you and I know I don't suck up to you or run up to you or whatever. We have an understanding that we know where we are and we know what the future of the country means and our role we play. So thank you very much for this opportunity, for exposing me to your audience, exposing me to people who didn't know about us, for speaking some truths that not many other channels want to speak. The truth. Yours is called The Truth Report. Sometimes the truth hurts, but you got to want to hear the truth. And sometimes our truth as a minority is not spoken. So thank you for the opportunity for making our truth come out on a public platform.

And that's the show, folks. Casey, we love you.