South Africans Need To Hear This Before 2029 | SA's Most Honest Conversation

Morris, how's it, man?

How's it, Rob?

Look at the Cape Top Wood.

At last.

Always wanted to meet you.

You've always struck me as like a rock star, you know. I said to my girlfriend, I was like, you know, this guy, he looks like one of those ballies that's been partying his whole life.

I'm like Fiji, so you're like Eminem.

You sent me, remember you sent me those photos from Burning Man? Yeah. And I was like, I fucking knew it.

Have you been to AfrikaBurn?

No, no, I haven't. Oh, you haven't been to AfrikaBurn?

Why not?

I don't know, bro. I kind of, every year I just get stuck in work and I promise myself that next year I'll do this, do that, do it. And then I just see the pictures afterwards and I'm like, beautiful.

It's beautiful.

Yes. And then I live regretting that I didn't go.

So where are you from? You live in Joburg?

I live in Joburg. Originally from KwaZulu-Natal, Freihaite. It was like a small mining town near Newcastle. I moved there 2004, did my first year varsity at UJ. I did BCom Investment Management. It's like a finance and economics. Dropped out in third year because I thought I was clever. I said, no, ma, don't worry, I'm going to go, I'm going to work, I'm going to make money. And then I worked at a very good job at Softline Pestle. And then I left that and got into radio because when the offer for radio came, as much as the money was far less than the money I was earning in corporate, I just hated the structure of corporates. I didn't like going there at fricking 8 o'clock in the morning. Which radio station? YFM at that stage, 2008. So it was the YFM just post DJ Fresh, Bad Boy T, Fat Joe, that era of DJs. It was myself, Mac G, Moe Flava, Siswe Lomo, Bonang Matheba. We had Scoop Makhatini. We had Tolly B. We had like that school of YFM. And I like to believe we were like the tail end of an era of radio, which I don't think South Africa has found again.

And what's your music style?

Music side, I started DJing. There was my mentor at YFM at the time was DJ Mwande. He was a legend. You know, he was a legend in the underground scene. If you knew anything about music and anything about DJing, you knew DJ Mwande. Fresh always tells a story that, you know, we knew him as the guy at the radio station who was behind the scenes. But we took him on a trip with us to Miami Music Conference. And everybody we bumped into, we were like, oh, Mawad, Manu, this one. They were like, hey, Mwande. They knew Mondé and they didn't know French and Portuguese and all these. This is like early 2000s.

How old are you now?

I am 39 now.

39. I'm a bally, 65.

Brother, you're a bally. Okay, but let's just tell them I'm 36 and we'll say you're 50.

I'm happy to be 50.

If anybody asks, edit that out.

I've got a friend who says I would give away everything I have to be 25 all over again, but just with the knowledge that I have.

Brother, me and your friend think the same. I always say that to, like, I operate with a lot of young people. A lot of my friendship circle are like lighties. I try where I can to, like, mentor them. They're in, like, a similar space, either in the entertainment space or music or whatever. And I try to say to them that if you knew what I knew at the age that you're at, you'd be a billionaire. But you're not listening to me. Because, you know, when we're that age, bro, you think you know everything. And you're like, no, fr, I'm right about everything. Nobody can tell me. Don't want to listen to our parents, don't want to listen to older people. But yeah, if I could go back, I'd definitely do that.

Do you know what frustrates me is if you think back 1,000 years, 2,000 years, ancient Greeks, the Romans, I mean, there was so much knowledge and they wrote it down. I mean, Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius, the Stoics, the philosophers. And yet children are born every day and they don't learn. So many don't learn the lessons of what works and what didn't work, what was good and what's bad.

That's true. But it's a constant—

said an interesting thing the other day on this trigonometry podcast. He said, you learn from your parents and maybe from your grandparents, and that's it. So anyone older than your grandparents, yeah, you've got to learn those lessons again.

That's true.

Disaster.

Yeah. And nothing from your great-grandparents that's passed down to your grandparents, do they really impart on you? I don't know if you get that, because when I was born, my great-grand was still alive. And, um, well, my great-grand is the reason why I speak fluent Zulu.

Was she a Zulu?

She was Zulu through and through.

What's her name?

My name was Agnes.

Yeah.

Right. Her mom was Masbia. So her mom was a Masbia and her dad was a John Baptista Balladin. He came here from Italy. Pardon?

Do you remember your granny?

I remember she was, when I was, I think she only died when I was about 10 or 12 years old.

And she taught you Zulu?

She taught all of us Zulu because it was the spoken language in the community in Vryheid at the time. And she spoke English, obviously, but I would say she spoke Zulu 70-80% of the time.

Insult me in Zulu. I want to know what you're saying. No. Tell the truth. Tell the truth about me in Zulu for our viewers.

We are telele. It's like you're a faulty bastard.

Okay, well, that's true.

Which I like. You know what I mean? Like, I've seen some of your interviews and I've seen the way you interact with those interviewing. What I like is You know, a lot of the time people get onto podcasts or get onto interviews and then you feel like, hey, because it's this braai show, do you know what I mean? But it's like, no, you brought me here to be Rob Hersov. And I mean, I've spent the morning with Rob. I can tell you he's that guy, you know? And I think that's missing from a lot of the discourse is genuine people. Be the same off air as you are on air. Because, you know, if you bring that energy onto an interview, that's how we get the hard stuff that nobody wants to talk about. Now when you just let somebody brush over something that's like, no, you can't say that, that's bullshit. You know what I mean? You're very good at that. That's me. I'm the same. You know what I mean? On air, off air, that's how I am. I'm just like, hey, hold on. This is what I actually think about the subject. If you don't like it, it's fine. You're welcome to challenge it. But I'm not going to not say it so as not to offend you. I'm sure you've seen that clip of Jordan Peterson, one of the most powerful little anecdotes. Ever. He says to the interviewer who was pressing him, who was trying to get him in like a gotcha type of question, um, and I think her question was, why should your right to free speech infringe on a trans person's right to be heard, or whatever the frick term they used? And he said, because in order to think, we have to risk being offended. In other words, if I'm going to say something, if I'm going to avoid saying something because I don't want to offend you, We're not going to get a useful discussion. I've got to say something and you've got to be like, yo, that was fucked up. But actually, why do you say that? You know what I mean? Why do you say I'm a racist? You know, what do white people do? Anytime there's any discourse with debates involving a white person, that gets thrown in and then that person just backs down. They're like, hey, fuck it. I don't want to get involved. I don't want to get accused of— and it's like, let's listen to the content of what this person is saying. And then perhaps if they are racist, we can challenge them on that. But based on what they said. Not based on my opinion, because I don't like what you say.

So maybe you can help me here.

Are you a racist? Okay.

No, no. In my heart. In my heart is Penn. Penn Will.

Penn Will. That's my oak. I love him.

I know he's your oak.

He's my dude.

And every time you're on his show, I listen to it on normal playback speed, by the way.

Yeah. I know. I don't do that.

I eat it alive. I love your interactions with Penn, and I love and I miss Penn. We've kind of been, you know, why, why are you beefing with Penn? No, I, I'm, we're not really. It's just that, um, you know, we had a bit of a little feisty moment on air.

Yes.

And then on Gareth Cliff's show, I said Penn's a black racist.

Right.

Like, and, and I just feel like people that do 2, 3, 4 podcasts a day, they need to say a lot of things to fill the gap.

Yeah, 100%.

Penn does go from here to here to here to here. One day he's somewhat pro-West, the next he's hardcore We need to be like China. And he does go all over the place, which is fine.

Yeah. But remember, a lot of the time you have to do that if you want to take the discussion somewhere. But do you think— why do you say he's a racist?

I think at that point in time he was saying things.

He was saying things. Okay.

But I don't think he is.

Yeah.

I think he gets irritated, pissed off with white people. He gets pissed off with capitalism. But fundamentally, I think if you and I and he sat down, which I'd like to do, we'd probably end up pretty much in the middle, you know, agreeing on stuff.

On his show. Because you know what the thing is about Penn?

On his show.

Penn is a—

I miss you, Penn. Yeah, I miss and love you, Penn.

Make peace. Um, we need, we need all the podcasts as we can get. I think he's a divergent thinker, that guy. Um, what I like about Penn, I, I actually— Penn and I, from school level, um, we come from the same basically hometown. He's Newcastle, I'm Fréjus. And once a year for a week, we had Craven Week. His school would come to mine and vice versa. What position did you play? No, I didn't play. I was in the Onderstufe.

He seems quite a good rugby player.

Yes, he was. And he loves rugby. His brother as well, Penson.

He supports the All Blacks. Can we get him over that? I mean, come on, he's South African.

I didn't go that far, right?

Maybe that's what irritated me the most.

If you know people from To see how far Penwell has come, you know, I always say this to him, we're like small-town boys there from friggin' Magdateni and Gwabanye. Those are flyover towns for me. You know what I mean? These are like flyover towns for most people. To make it to Johannesburg, make something of yourself and have a platform as big as he's built, you know what I mean? I think is a serious achievement. And when you're a custodian of such a platform, I think you've got to be very careful in the way that you build it. I like the fact that Penn speaks what's on his mind. He's almost like a guy who, he doesn't like pre-think what he says. As soon as it comes into his mind, he's like, actually, this is a good point, and he drops it.

And it's enjoyable.

100%.

It makes for great listening.

He says so much stuff on Twitter that triggers people. But I know because I know him. I know he's doing it on purpose because if you look in the comments, that's where the discussion starts.

So I only look at YouTube. I'm not on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

I know, you gotta come on Twitter, Ro.

I've got accounts. But my team put my stuff on.

You've got to come on Twitter, give it to a member of your team that is an outspoken— mustn't be bang of anything— and let them run. Because you say shit on Twitter. I think you should be on Twitter. I think a lot of the things, a lot of the thoughts that you want to espouse can only live on Twitter. And I think you'll find that in the engagements, it doesn't matter how bad it gets. Fuck it, bro. It goes away in a week. I've been cancelled for everything from Palestine to Miss South Africa to "Joburg is full of whores." Here I am.

You lived through it.

I'm okay. Yeah. Got plenty of work. Everybody likes me. And all I have to do is be myself.

Have you traveled extensively? Have you been internationally?

I have not, sir. The last country, the only country actually that I've been to outside of here, besides like within Africa, is Turkey. And I went just post-lockdown when we still had—

For a job?

Vaccine certificates. No, no, we went to a dental clinic that side. My girlfriend got veneers. And went to Turkey. First thing I can say is like, when— what struck me was like, how safe everything is. And the people weren't polite per se, but they weren't rude. It's almost like everybody just gets on with it. Like everybody has— yes. The taxi driver is a taxi driver. The concierge person who received us at the hotel is a concierge person. They wouldn't even accept tips. You know, like, I thought I tipped the braai, like, he came, he took the bags and so that. They didn't mind tips, bro. It's like, no, no, no. You know what I mean? Like, he was so bummed to take tips.

You haven't been to London?

I haven't been to London. New York? Nope.

Los Angeles?

I haven't.

Where would you like to go?

I would like to go to New York.

America. You gotta go.

Yeah, I'd like to go to New York.

That's the first place you need to go.

Yes.

You're 100% right.

From what I've seen. I would also like to go to— let me think. I was actually having this discussion the other day. Tokyo, Japan would look like it would be sick. I'd love to go to Hong Kong. I would like to also go to like your Romanias, like your Eastern Europe type countries, those that are still sort of like very traditional. So I don't only want to see like the bright lights and the fun times. I also want to go see these places which I care about research about Prague. Yeah, that sort of stuff.

It wasn't bombed in the Second World War, and it's this beautiful Budapest and Prague, beautiful old—

yes, same architecture from 100 years way back. Yeah, that's the type of shit that I want to see. And Moscow, Milan, you know, Moscow is super cool too. I'd love to go to Russia. I've got a mate who plays rugby in Russia, um, South African, South African from Bloemfontein.

Okay.

And he's had offers from France, he's had offers from England, and he said, bro, I've played there one season, I'm back in Russia because I love Russia. He loves Russia, he loves Russian women. He says he loves the people, the culture. And he also was saying that like, it's very traditional. You know what I mean? I'd love to go to Russia also because I know somebody there. So he's kind of like hyping me up. You know what I mean? And Putin is my hero. If I can go there and meet him, that would be fantastic.

I'd like to meet Putin too.

Love to meet him.

Yeah.

He just strikes me as like, he could be like the dad of the world.

And he's one of those guys you want to meet. While he's alive rather than, you know, because people say, who would you like to meet that is now dead?

Yes, he's still alive.

That's great to meet him.

Yeah, I'd love to meet you and just have like an off-the-record chat with him, you know. Like, I've seen his interviews, like the one he did with Tucker Carlson. I feel like he was so well prepared for an interview. I always wonder, what is that guy like? Because I've heard, you know, like you hear stories about he's got like 8 girlfriends or something. Some of them are fucking like world champion ice skaters and, you know, yeah. I just imagine ballerina, you know what I mean? Like a proper, like, Russian mobster. And I'm just like, this bali's a fucking vibe. Trump.

You see his public persona, but privately, people who've been with him one-on-one or two-on-one say he's polite, quiet, respectful, insightful. He's not that big joking buffoonery that you sometimes see.

Yes, that you sometimes see.

And I wonder if you sat by a braai with Vladimir Putin, wouldn't be beers.

No, it wouldn't be beers. It'd be vodka.

Sosates and vodka. You know, would he be, would he kind of open up?

And what would be some of the things that he would say?

Yeah.

You know, I've seen like a few clips of him, like, that's why I say like, I liken him to like a mobster. But, you know, something I'll say about Russia because there's this idea of corruption, right? I think every country is corrupt. I think there's corruption to a certain degree in every administration run by humans.

Sometimes at the bottom.

If you remember, remember the 2008 global financial crisis? That's where I really got interested in stuff outside of, like, pictures and money. Okay. I looked at The Inside Job. It was a documentary about the crash.

I saw that too.

Brilliant. And just the way that, you know, like, These CEOs sacrificed their companies, right? Companies that had been running 100 years.

Lehman Brothers.

Lehman Brothers in particular.

Bear Stearns.

Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac.

They were inside the casino gambling with our money.

That's it. And they left winning the jackpot.

Correct.

But the casino collapsed.

Correct.

And that sort of showed me that there is actually no ceiling. Because, I mean, some of, what's his name, Hank Paulson. Hank Paulson left Morgan Stanley. To go and work in the administration.

Goldman Sachs. Right?

Goldman Sachs, work in the—

I miss him.

Who was it? Obama administration, let's say? But he took a package of over $500 million when he left. But he was instrumental in engineering what would become the crash. Then he gets to the Obama administration and he's like, listen, you guys are fucking irresponsible. It's like, what? You worked here last year.

So there's corruption, which is people breaking the law or doing something immoral. But there's another form of corruption where you're gaming the system. So you create the rules so you can play inside the tent.

Like a Nancy Pelosi type of thing.

Correct.

Like an insider trading type of thing.

Correct.

Now, my thing is, when Nancy Pelosi insider trades, when Hank Paulson resigns and moves across to the administration, the banks continue. Nancy can make all the money she wants to make on trades. It's not going to collapse the global financial system. Whereas in Africa in particular, and South America to a degree, It would appear that there is corruption on a level where those being corrupt don't give a fuck if the whole system collapses, as long as they benefit.

And that's where I see the ANC as, my view.

They're like beyond—

They don't care. At all. They don't care anymore. They just want to steal for as long as possible.

Even if stealing means the whole country is going to collapse. Now, I mean, I'm sure you followed the, you know, the whole Joe Biden story up until he just—

You know Hunter Biden's here in Cape Town?

I saw he did an interview with Josh, Wide Awake. Yeah. But I was listening there and I was like—

He's in Camps Bay.

Is it?

Or Clifton, yeah.

I met someone. Doesn't his sister, either his sister or his wife's brother or somebody live here?

Like maybe that's why he's here. Hunter Biden's here.

Yeah, I think, I think—

20 minutes drive.

Look, I stand corrected. Hunter, you can hit me up on WhatsApp if you think I'm, if you want to correct me. But somebody told me. I was somewhere one day and this person sort of greeted somebody and then pointed out and said, hey, you know who that is? That's Hunter Biden's wife's brother lives here in Cape Town. I don't know if Hunter Biden is married to a South African or some who in the—

I think he's got a South African girlfriend.

Yes, something like that. So maybe that explains why he's here. He's probably down the road here. He is. Really?

Yeah, I didn't know that, but I know— Yo, it's gonna— We're gonna hang out and I think it's—

It's gonna be weird though. You're gonna go there and we're gonna talk kak about his dad.

So on South African politics, you get drawn in on South African politics.

I am, yeah. I'm a patriot.

Are you hopeful? Do you feel the needle's turning? Do you think we've got a chance? I mean, I'd had a chat to Prince Mashile, who says by 2029 the ANC's gone, under 15%. He doesn't believe the DA is going to be running the country. He says MK is a complete lunatic asylum. EFF's gone. He says a whole new pol is going to develop. And he's been predicting things right for the last 15 years. I've been negative about South Africa for the last few years, thinking you'd be crazy to invest. But something in me is feeling a bit of hope.

Where do you stand? What I think about South Africa, I have a friend who moved to Cyprus. He's hardcore Dutchman, East Rand, you know what I mean? Like, Trinkes du Plessis.

Where is East Rand?

Second best.

Voxburg, Benoni, Bramfontein.

Trinkes du Plessis is the world fighting champ. In America, in the world, but in Voxburg he's number 2 type of hook, right? And he moved to Cyprus and he, you know, like he made a lot of money. He moved his money abroad. He was like, fuck this place, I'm out. He moved to Cyprus just sort of like when lockdown regulations relaxed. So 2021 or so. He'd been prepping to move for 5, 6 years prior to that. And when he got there, the first thing he did, I would say the first year or two that he was in Cyprus is him and his family toured Europe. Flat. They went everywhere that they'd ever wanted to go.

They'd never been before.

They'd been to some places, but never that extensive. And they spent time in these places, you know what I mean? Like they spent 2 weeks, 3 weeks interacting with the people. He knew someone in every country. So he went there, he went to the States, he went to the UK, you name it. And he said like, and then he got back to Cyprus and he knuckled down and he started working. And he said, it's way too boring. Like this year, that man is like, fuck it, I want to come home. I can't handle this place. It's too organized. There's not enough chaos. It's too much order. And he said he's realized, like, from interacting with people from different countries, the type of shit that people complain about being so hard. He said, what the fuck? Do you know what we deal with where I come from?

Correct.

He said that South Africans are the most resilient people known to man. That's, and that's my opinion, is that I think the people are resilient enough to survive the ANC.

I spent 31 years. I went school, university, UCT, 2 years in the army, national service. I left the country in 1985. I lived 31 years in America, Europe, and the UK, and I couldn't take it anymore. I said, I want to come home. And my wife—

Did you miss home? Were you attached to the people, or were you like—

No, I was— I'll tell you a wonderful story. I was 23 years old. 24 years old, and I just finished the army and I was traveling through Burma and I was with my brother and Richard Nodder, another South African. He's now top 4 Goldman Sachs in the world. Another South African moving the world. And we were sitting on a, on a tramp steamer on the Irrawaddy River in the jungles of Burma, floating up. I mean, half of those things have capsized and killed people. But we were, you know, 20s.

You guys, 20s, untouchable. Untouchable.

And I'm sitting talking to a Belgian guy. He's about a year or two older than me. And this Belgian guy said to me, you know what, I grew up in Africa, in the Congo, with my family. And at about age 7, we had to leave the country and run, rush back to Europe and go and live in Belgium. And he said, from the day I arrived back in Brussels to today, all I can think about at Brussels is cobbled streets, bicycles, and rain. But my 7 years in Africa, I remember everything. I remember the smell of the rain on the earth, you know, anthills, mosquitoes, a snake. He said everything was rich with feeling and hunger. And we struggled, but I lived life to the full, whereas in Brussels I couldn't bear it anymore. And I almost felt that's how I felt in America, Europe, and Britain.

You were on a mission, obviously. You were working, you were running businesses.

Yeah, working 24/7 and everything. And then suddenly I woke up and said, I miss South Africa. And I came back here, We were only going to spend 2, 3 years living here because I said under Zuma it's finished. And now my wife, New Zealander, says, I love this place so much, I don't want to leave. And I said, then we're staying. And it's— you're right.

Yeah, well, I mean, I'm looking at this view here. It's not a bad place.

And you know, when my international friends say, you're crazy, you're speaking out, you're getting threats, you're getting madness. Why do you live in South Africa? And I always joke and I said, because we are allowed to shoot back. But what I really mean is this place, you know, I drive through the Karoo, I go up to, you know, into the bush, go up the highway, even go to PE, which is a complete mess. And I just talk to the taxi driver, talk to the people in the hotel, talk to— I love this country. You can't beat it.

No, I agree. And my thing is like, you see, something that you said now is like, you miss home, Okay, you feel at home here. Like you said, you brought your wife here. She saw the place. She said, fuck it, I'm in. You know what I mean? I never want to leave. But something that you said, I spoke to Zimasa, another mate of mine, Mustafa, on social media. He's like a commentator. He does like little short content pieces on very informative on a lot of subjects that people sort of like breaks it down for people. So it's more palatable. And something he said on an interview we did with him is he said, like, South Africans are very negative about South Africa, whereas in other countries, you know, like, people speak proudly about—

Proud to be an American.

Big time. I mean, if you look at, like, what's all the shit that's going on in the UK now, one of the subjects that they cover a lot is when you speak to young people, they're so negative in their outlook about the UK. And, you know, this is a shit place. We need to be more tolerant. Like they've been conditioned. That's it. Same with Americans. They're negative about America. But this is a new phenomenon. Whereas here, it's almost like since when '94 came around, it was like, oh no, the Blacks are going to be in charge. The frickin' place is going to fall apart. It didn't fall apart. We won a Rugby World Cup or two. Mandela was president. Rainbow Nation. There's a lot of good PR. Then we had the Mbeki years. And Mbeki was hailed as this intellectual, studied here, went there, knew this one, knew that one. This is going to be great. African Renaissance vibes. Then in came Zuma and it was like, oh, fr, the place is going to collapse. It's falling apart. Let's move. Nobody moved. Zuma was out. In came Cyril. New dawn. Let's go. Cyril is clearly in the 7 wasted years here. And it's— he's having a terrible time.

This is the best history lesson the viewers could ever have.

So every time it's been a new president, a new administration, and whatever the ANC has been doing, You know, it starts out sometimes hopeful and it just sort of goes downhill for whatever reason. Mbeki, I suppose, went downhill because he was ousted by Zuma, you know, unceremoniously. Zuma, in the 9 wasted years, as they term it, I actually feel like it was more of a PR hit job than it was actual wasted years. And I compare it to the 7 years that we've just had, because my thing is, I watch a deposition of Shamila Bathoi. And then I'm like, no, this whole fucking administration is a scam.

NPA.

Yes, the NPA boss. This woman has been paid 4.5, 5 million rand a year to fucking sit there and do fuck all. She does nothing. Shamila Bathoi was just skating around the thing. She comes with printed emails. And she says, I have emails here that you were CC'd in over a period of 3 years, however many, let's say it was 50 emails over 3 years. Okay, and all of this was told to you and you were supposed to get back to them and do something about it. You haven't even responded to a single email. She says to her, ah, I'll have to look at that. Can you provide me with that document? She says, it's in your inbox. What the fuck? Go and check your inbox. The stuff is there. Shamila Bathoi is the topscape goater. Every time she's asked, why has nothing happened on this case? What does she say? She says, oh, resources. You don't understand the department that we inherited. The place was a shit show. Why have you not fixed it? Surely to God, it does not take 7 years to turn the ship around. This ship has gone in a worse direction. It's almost like they've done nothing. But despite that, I believe that the negativity surrounding it, I do, like Prince Mashile says, I don't know if it'll be by 2029, but I can tell you, even if it's by 2035, we will still be here. We're going nowhere. And I said this about the Afrikaners. When Trump offered those visas and they said, oh, the Afrikaners are going to go, I said, those people are going nowhere.

I mean, how many have taken it up?

Brother, apparently the last flight had 3 people on it. They're not going. Afrikaners.

We want to be here.

Brother, I grew up with Afrikaners in Freetown. They're hard, hard people. They're not going to leave over some fucking bullshit on Twitter. They're not leaving. I'm telling you, they won't leave. They are also patriots, Rob. This is the thing. I spoke about this to Penn. I said to him that just imagine for a minute that Afrikaner people believe they are patriots of South Africa. They believe this is their country. It doesn't matter if how many Black Twitter bots, or what do you call it, those Black Twitter engines that, you know, just spew hate, talk about get out of here, this is our country, this is not our country. They don't believe that. It doesn't matter what you say. They are going to stay here. They are going to farm the land that they are farming, and whether they die on those farms or not, they're not leaving. To go and be fricking serfs in America. No chance.

So, so help me on this one, because you really know all tribes and cultures and groups and South Africans. A lot of primarily white South Africans believe that 3 days leading up to people putting an X in a box to vote, you know, the ANC roll out Kentucky Fried Chicken, a t-shirt, a couple of posters, and, and they get the vote. And a cat, and they get the rural, they get the rural vote. But surely the rural voters know what's going on. They can't not know. That's, you see, the thing is, where are we there? Is it an illusion or?

I can tell you here where we are seated now, all the gogos, brother, this, we are so far removed from what the gogos there in the rural areas actually know.

Really?

I'm telling you, I, when I go home to Freiheit, if I go to a place like Banya where I grew up, or even just interacting with a lot of the people in the town in Fred. It's not that they don't know. It's that it's so ingrained in the thinking there, right? You and I consume a lot of information and a lot of news. So for us and probably the people we hang around with, it's like unfathomable that they don't know what's going on.

Unfathomable is exactly the right word.

In Mngqandla, I'll give you an example. When they went to arrest Zuma, And Helen Zille actually wrote a very, very powerful open letter at the time, but because it was Helen Zille, they said, shut the fuck up, you're a racist. Nobody bothered to read the letter, but she raised some very important points. And I love the— there's like a respect between her and Jacob Zuma.

There really is.

There really is. Say what you want, they respect each other. He knows that she's not a racist, you know what I mean? And she knows that he is not a Idiot. An idiot. Yeah, he's far from it.

Far from it. Exactly.

And she— the letter spoke about the fact that we are going to Zuma's house to go and arrest him under the guise that he is a constitutional delinquent, right? And he has contravened the Constitution in clause number what, what, XYZ way. Therefore, we have legal grounds to arrest him. But you cannot go to Nkandla, to the Zuma homestead, in the Nkandla community and say, hey, how's it? We're here with this constitution thing. They tell you, fuck that, that guy's our leader. That's Nnamalala. We will prevent you from arresting him. And if you want to fight, we can fight because that rogue brought running water to this place. You understand?

And that's it.

He built a school here.

Yeah.

There's a tar road. So fuck you, you're not taking him because running water, a school, and a tar road, that's enough for those people. They will be loyal to Jacob Zuma forever.

By the way, he did a lot of that in the Eastern Cape too. He has a huge following there.

There we go.

So, it's that basic.

It's that basic because that's what I need. And it's like, we need to also get a bit clever in terms of our understanding of the average R350 grant recipient. You and I can say R350 is an insult. How can you accept that? But for that person, that R350, life or death, right? And even though we can agree that I'm sure the R350 doesn't last a whole month, it's certainly enough to make a plan with for the length of time that it does make a plan to keep you alive. Which is, in my opinion, the way that the government sort of like views the people. They don't care. You know what I'm saying? You know that people are living in squalor and absolute abject poverty. And you don't give a fuck. You will steal from a hospital to the tune of 2 billion rand and buy a 50 million rand car. And you know that people— how can you do that? You know what I can think that because I've got a point of reference that includes both views. But that rural person, if you're telling them that, hey, check here, this guy bought a R50 million car with money he stole from a hospital, they're like, bro, fuck that, I got running water, I'm not interested. What's the story with the 350? Amazing. You see, my list of priorities, brother, it doesn't factor into my thinking what you're trying to sell.

It's like when we talk about the failure of SAA and privatisation. I mean, they don't fly, they don't care about aeroplanes.

And they make up the majority, you see, of the voters. That's why Gareth said something interesting the other day, and I'm glad he said it. We've actually had that conversation off air, Gareth and I, that I don't think that everybody should be allowed to vote. I agree with him. That's what he said, and I agree 100%. I do believe that allowing everybody to vote, including— you see, what people do is they take that statement, they clip it as not everybody should be allowed to vote, and they say, you Racist, you don't want blacks to vote, you don't want women to vote, you're sexist, you're racist, you're fascist. No. I don't think prisoners have any business voting. Let's start with prisoners. I agree. Okay, so that's 300,000, 400,000 people immediately cancelled from voting. That's a step in the right direction. A grant recipient, somebody who is dependent on the state for their survival, it's not fair that they get to vote for— we can have a clause in place that says you can never convert these people. That's it. A taxpayer, I am happy to support people who cannot support themselves, but like Bill Clinton did when he came in, not indefinitely. Not everybody who is a grant recipient is incapable of working, learning a skill, or being educated. I think we should put a lot of those billions that we send in the form of grants into how are we upskilling these people? How are we educating these people? What is the 10, 20-year plan to make sure that this child who is a recipient of a grant right now grows up to be a functioning member of society.

Economic growth. Because economic growth—

there we go. It's been how many years? 1990, I think. 1990, social grants starts in 1998. 2 million people. It's now over 25 million people. That can't work.

There are only 60 million people in the country.

And only 10 million or less are paying tax. I'm surprised that it's enough to even sustain this fucking massive bubble.

Me too.

But I don't think that the bubble is sustainable much longer. And when it crashes, then you'll really see shit because people will be starving.

What happens then? Because you know what Mr. Maimane said to me? He said, come the time when people can't take it anymore and they hit the streets and they march, you're going to be in no idea which direction. You're hoping it's Pretoria to the Union Building to say, we've had enough. But it could go in any direction.

The problem is, and this is the sad part, we saw it during the July riots and nobody spoke about it. When that happens, they'll hurt each other. They'll hurt each other first and they'll hurt themselves. We had a situation at the time I was in, I was working at Kagasi. Was I still at Kagasi? Might have been the year that I left, but I was still very— I used to work at Kagasi FM, so I lived in Durban. So I remember like, you know, all my oaks, Durban North, Mkhlanga, like my guys from Kwamashu and stuff, they were like, listen, we're putting together— like people really galvanized, you know what I mean? They put roadblocks in place to prevent—

So you were part of all that?

I was in Joburg and I traveled down to Durban to say, okay, what's going on, you know what I mean? Not like we weren't like mobilizing like military commandos, but everybody that I knew in my friendship circle, we were doing that in Joburg, you know, like on all the security groups, messages were going out to say, hey, we need help here, we need help there, we need help wherever. We'd jump in the cars and we'd going. When you get to that scene, bro, there's 20 cars, you know what I mean? You don't pull up there and it's just the two of you. Yeah, you pull up there, there's 20 other oaks that have pulled up. Some of them are just ordinary guys that are on the group from the community policing forum halfway across the city. They've made their way all the way that way because help was needed. Because again, South Africa, there's a resilience about South Africans that I just think we can't ignore, right? And when that happened, if you look at a place like, uh, my colleague worked in, um, in Nanda, lived in Inanda and works at Kagasi. And she said that people marched to the spa, they fucked the spa up, then they marched to the Shell garage and the engine garage, and they tried to steal the petrol, and that fucked out the whole garage quarter, like. Then they marched to the depot where the trucks were, and they burnt the fucking trucks. And as a result, I cannot get to work today because I've got no petrol in my car, and the nearest garage is fricking 50 kilometers away, because this is the only garage on my route between X and Y. There's nowhere to buy groceries. I've now got to go and shop for the groceries somewhere in Lusaka. And these were local people? Because these were local people. They fricked up the spaza shops, the spa. This is where everybody in that community buys their groceries. So the first people to be affected will be themselves, if that happens. That's problem number one. Problem number two is it's impractical. It would be impossible to mobilise that many people in vehicles. You see, they'll have to come on foot. And coming on foot is very slow. So anybody, any, even pops, our South African police. Our police will stop them way before that. Because there are measures that our security cluster, private security, there's guys in private security, 3,000 of them will end that thing in 2 hours. So I don't believe that that'll ever happen. But the most vulnerable on the outskirts will obviously be a target. But as I say, I believe that the people will target each other first, which is sad because it'll be the strong ones targeting the weak ones. And nobody wants that, including the strong ones.

Do you think there could be civil unrest? I think it's highly unlikely.

There could be civil unrest, but it'll be similar to the July riots.

And it'll be very localized. It won't spread across the country.

No chance. And even if it spreads across the country, it'll spread most vulnerable outskirts first, but in the metros and in the hubs, there's no way they're going to come into Cape Town CBD and do anything. No ways. They'll make it maybe from the airport there, halfway across that highway, and then ox will get tired, they'll go home. Also, you know, like I listen to a lot of our politicians say, we're prepared to die. I'm like, really?

Really?

Try dying, then tell me.

Yeah, exactly.

There's no way you're prepared to die. That's a strong statement to make.

So Boris, you're a dynamic, young, intelligent, good-looking—

Well, thank you.

Hot South African.

I'm a Bali now.

You're not a Bali. Are you married? You got kids?

No, I'm not married.

Single?

I've got 3 kids. I've got 2 boys with my ex-girlfriend, first baby mama. One is 16 and the little one is 11. And then I've got a middle son as well with my second baby mama. He's 14. So 3 boys, no girls. I'm working on it.

And where do they go?

2 are at Pinnacle College in Linden, which is in Johannesburg. Pinnacle College is It's like a, it's like one of these kudo type chains. But Pinnacle is fucking expensive. I must be honest. And that's good.

Good at sport, good at academics.

Good at sport, but lazy. Um, good at academics. I'd say my eldest really applies himself. That guy, you know, he's got a tutor that he operates with. He said, no, dad, I need a tutor for this, this, this. He's, when he asks me for something, I move heaven and earth to get it for him because he's the type of guy that like, If I supply him with the tutor, he will maximize on how much he learns. So if he says he wants a book, you give him the book because you know he's going to read it. And I know the result that he comes with at the end of these exams for maths and physics is going to be amazing because I've given him all the tools he needs. The little one is a genius. He's got some sort of photographic memory. He's left-handed. And the middle one is also really, really smart. In his younger years, he was like top 3 in his class. So they're very good. And they're good boys. They're not— they don't misbehave. They're very well behaved. I was actually speaking to Prince about it earlier, where I was saying, you know, the importance of being a father— father, having a father figure in your life, rather— cannot be understated. You know, like, I look at my kids and I listen to people tell me about their kids who are like a similar age. I had my granddad. My dad passed away in 1994. So I was like 8.

And your granddad was part of your life?

My granddad was my oak. Yeah, he's part of my life till beyond matric. Then he passed away. But I think the lessons had already been instilled at that stage. Also, like I'd say the type, I've never really been somebody that's for drugs. I drink, but I've never like abused alcohol. I don't have any vices per se. I smoke a vape. I used to smoke cigarettes. Um, so I'm a vertical wife. No, no, vertical wife. For 3 lives is too bad.

Horizontal wife is—

Um, but yeah, like, I probably will get married. Just find a wife. They're few and far between these days. Streets are full of hoes.

But, uh, didn't you say that on Twitter? X?

I did, and I meant it. So, um, yeah, like, you know, like, I'm just that guy, man, like, working hard. I also believe, you know, like it's like you say you're 65, but I don't know if you feel like you're 65. I don't feel like I'm 39. I actually still feel like I've been 31 for the past 10 years. And when I say it, George, I'm in my 30s. Yeah. You know what I mean? I feel like I can go, but there's nothing I can't do. And I still feel like I've got plenty of time to achieve things that have really only started entering my thoughts in the last 5 years.

So give me an example of what you want to achieve. Tell us a few things.

I'd like to make an impact here in this country. I think, you know, like, I'm not particularly interested in politics. Like, I'm not like that interested in it where it's like, I really have ambitions. I want to serve in the flipping legis—

No.

I want to be a positive influence on this country because I've been blessed. You know what I mean? I'm famous. I was on TV for many years. I was on radio for many years. Most places that I go, somebody recognizes me.

You speak every language.

I've literally got this whole new generation of people who recognize me from TikTok. So people—

I'm a fan.

I thank you, sir.

Look how much trouble you're in.

Right? People will come and they'll be like, hey, you're that guy on TikTok. And sometimes it'll be a 65-year-old bali from Bloemfontein, or it'll be a 16-year-old boy at the garage. They'll be like, hi, sir, how are you? I see your TikToks. And then they engage me and ask me questions about the stuff that I said, which means these people are watching. The whole clip or the full interview. So it's having an impact, and I'd like that impact to actually yield some sort of results. I don't just want to be famous for nothing so that I can continue my horizontal vices. I'd like to also be famous in a way where it's like some of the things that I'm invited to and some of the people that I'm speaking to actually want to put their money, their time, their effort, their energy where their mouth is. You know what I mean? Because I had a meeting with A Bali, he's a very influential Bali with lots of money. And he's had a long and successful life, right? Owns a lot of property in the Johannesburg CBD, very passionate about the turnaround of the Johannesburg CBD. And he said to me, I'm old, you know what I mean? I'm not going to be around for much longer. But all of this money that I have, if I can give this money to something that is going to turn the city around, then I will rest easy because this is the city that made me. And to see it turned into a shithole, it's not going to go down well, you know. You had that other topie who bought Kuro. He spent like 7 billion or something on Kuro in order to provide free schooling for those deserving of it. Now that is the type of impact you want to have. And I'd like to be there. I don't have the billions, but like I said, I'm young enough. But I'm young enough to do the work, you know. And something I'm passionate about is taking back Johannesburg CBD. I think that allows you to see—

Are you going to get behind Gogo Helen?

I don't know if Gogo Helen is the horse that I would back.

Is there another horse?

I would, honestly speaking, the only horse that has proven to me he can and will do what it takes in that city is Herman Mashaba. He had a run. When he started doing what was going to make the impact, they said he's xenophobic. And at the time, we were hurt by words. That shit is over. Now people, well, I don't give a fuck. What you think you can say. I'm racist, sexist, misogynist. Call me whatever. I couldn't give a damn. Because I'm about how are we getting the work done. Things fixed. And when Herman Mashaba came in and he was like, we need to do something about the amount of illegal foreigners that are invading our cities and the degradation in the city. And these fucking NGOs are working against us.

I agree.

Because their sustenance, in order to sustain their business model, They need the place to be a shithole. That's how they raise money.

Isn't that terrible?

It is absolutely shocking.

And they get money from open society and—

That's it. Remember when Trump cut US aid? Yeah. And everybody got angry.

Yeah.

Even though he cut it equally to everybody. Boom. That's it. They were like, oh, he hates South Africa, he's cutting our aid. I'm like, he cut $40 million in funding for condoms in Mozambique. Bet you Trump hasn't even given Mozambique a second thought, but he's not sending 40 million dollars worth of condoms. It's more condoms than there are men in Mozambique. What the fuck?

What's going on?

Because USAID was a massive slush fund.

Yeah.

Money's being sent all over the world. That's it. And we have a similar thing in the CBD. You will try to do something in a building where you're like, okay, these people are not paying rent. The building is fucking wasting away here because maintenance needs to be done. If we are to get in, do the maintenance and fix the buildings, people need to get out. If I give that example, I'll have 10 lawyers there within an hour telling me they can't move these people unless I can provide alternate accommodation. Boss, everyone comes from somewhere. Go back there. There's so many people in a lot of these buildings that are genuine, hardworking people who just want a safe place to stay. They want to get to work and back. They want to raise their children, put them in school, build something for themselves back home where they come from. These are the people you meet, and they are like 85, 90% of the people. But there's that 10% that don't want progress to happen. And I think Herman is the horse that I would back. To do that because he did it before and unfortunately was stopped in his tracks by people with an agenda.

Whatever.

Yeah.

You see, so I think you should be on Joe Rogan.

I'd love to be. That guy's my hero.

I've messaged him. I've been on a lot of the international podcasters and I messaged Rogan, no response. And I asked Konstantin Kissen, Konstantin said, Joe does what he wants to do.

Yeah. But you can get us there, bro.

Yeah, but you'd be the right guy for Rogan.

I'll go.

And you could tell the South African story.

I will take all our notes. I'll fly you there.

I'll fly you there.

Brother, I'm there.

He's in Texas. Yeah.

I'd love to go and do the— Honestly speaking, Joe is another one, like, like we were making the example earlier of Vladimir Putin. I sometimes look at like American celebrities, right? And some of these commentators, even like I said this about Andrew Tate at some point. When he first started making videos. I said, you know, this guy sounds like half of my friends. I think if this braai had to come to South Africa and he just knew that this is the person I must contact, he'll have a better time with me than anybody else here. Because I almost feel like I know the guy. That's how I feel about Joe. I feel like we could have a chat and a braai and fucking go hunt an elk and do whatever the fuck. We could have that. We could have a whole weekend together. We're not even recording a podcast. We're just talking kak. And maxing out. That's Joe. He strikes me as that type of guy.

100%. You're the right guy to be on Joe Rogan.

So, and is there a— Joe, if you're watching, you can hit me up on the WhatsApp.

Boris Stock. Boris, are you a singer or a dancer?

Neither. I play the music. I'm a DJ.

And what's your music that you love? What's your new—

My new thing, I'm actually starting, I'm recording a YouTube mix series. So I start actually this weekend. So what I've tried to put together is, um, There is a YouTube channel which we've merged with that's got quite a big subscriber base. It's a music subscriber base, South African one. We'll be changing it into like a record label channel because what I want to do is, you know, being famous, I always say to people, I had a boss named Claudi Motsuaneng, you know that guy?

Yes, we know the name.

That guy. He used to call his meetings in the auditorium at the SABC, and it was like a meeting for all the talent, all the on-air talent. So whether you were on a soap opera, you were a presenter, whatever, you had to come to this meeting. And then he'd be there in front, you know, he'd wait for everybody to sit down, and then he'd be like, "Eh, icons, how are you?" And then we were like, "Hey, how are you?" And it was like, you have to attend this meeting. Yeah. Okay. Either the production company or your boss or the commissioning editor, somebody senior would tell you, hey, you have to come to this meeting. So you had all the famous faces of South Africa from the SABC in this room listening to Klaudi. And then he obviously had something to say, but he'd just go off the cuff. He wouldn't, whatever he'd prepared, he'd leave that there by the podium. And then he used to say, you know, guys. Something that bothers me. How can you be famous and broke? It's like, okay. It's like, today I was driving in and I saw— then he names the person, like he'll say, I saw whoever. I saw Rob Herschel. He's driving Toyota Tazz. How can you be driving Toyota Tazz?

Give us some thoughts.

And then you're like, what's wrong with this dog, bro? I'm not calling the guy out like that, but The point of what he was saying is he was trying to— there was a point to his little speech. He was saying how powerful the platform is and how we must use the platform, you know, to have influence, have impact, and make money. And he was right in that when you're famous, like, you have a different rapport with people. And what I'd like to do with this fame, if you will, is I used to be a DJ. I stopped DJing because I believe it died as an art form and it became like a gimmick thing. You know, like if you had a big bum and titties, you could be a DJ. And that's just not the vibe. Didn't matter what you were playing. And this past weekend I attended the Kunye Festival, Shimza's event that he does once every second month or so. One of the most amazing shows you'll attend. I was standing immediately behind the DJ box. I was in the crowd there. When he dropped his now global hit, Fire, I promise you that place went apeshit. And the pyro and the production, and I was like, fuck. You know, there's something special about music that allows us to communicate with the world. And South Africa right now finds itself being the custodians of a sound, that Afrotech sound. That is a South African sound. Afrotech and 3-step. The biggest DJs in the world are playing it globally. Okay? But it's a sound from here. And I just feel like I would like to do what I can to also be in that space, play that type of music. But we need to be the proper custodians of the sound. I haven't figured out that part yet, but I think—

So what's your channel going to be called?

What channel is probably going to be— Oh, I can't say because we haven't yet.

But what can people— where can people go now and subscribe to, to Waris?

Well, now they can't subscribe yet until we finalize the contracts. Maybe people can find me, Shady_Lurker. I'll probably change and put it on all my handles. Shady_Lurker on Twitter, Instagram. I do have TikTok. I haven't really started using it yet. I use it just to view. But if you search Waras on TikTok, you'll see all my videos there. I'm not the one posting them, which is also great. You know what I mean? I get a lot of love in the streets. People repost my stuff.

Do you have security? You've got a security firm.

I've got a security firm, yeah.

Do you have security? Do you have?

Well, it depends where I go, but generally speaking, nobody wants to kill me as far as I know. And when they do, I'll know who it is.

So I don't. I have security.

You need security. Fantastic. We'll give you two bodyguards.

But here's my idea.

Yeah.

I want a really hot girl. A really hot girl in like a hot leather outfit with long gloves, you know, all the right large tracts of land. Can you sort that out for me? Gaddafi style.

Gaddafi style. That's what I want. I'm sure, well, those Gaddafi ones are since unemployed. You just need to find them.

But haven't you got some of those in your employ?

Who?

There's— When I come up to Joburg.

There's two females.

All right, I'll take them both. I'll take them both.

All right. One I know is available to do your protection detail. She's super hot. I can't say her name, otherwise she'll know, I think, that she's hot.

So when I come up to Joburg—

She'll choke me out.

Those two can look after me. Because I reckon anyone bumps me off a girl—

But Rob—

Actually, Rob's quite cool.

Do you find in your interactions with people, Have you— are you yet to meet, or have you met somebody who's like, 'Fuck you, I hate your opinions'?

Yes.

In person?

Yes. Mark Liffman.

Really?

Walked up to me in Joburg with these two guys behind him.

Yeah.

He was wearing a mask because it was during COVID Yeah. I was with Nick Ferguson, my business buddy. He walked up to me in the Capital Hotel in Sandton and said, 'Rob Hersov, we've been looking for you. Dudu Zanazuma is pissed off with you. We know where you live, and you know who I am.' And I went, No, you're wearing a mask.

Yeah.

And I heard Nick go, we're dead now.

Yeah.

But it's in the hotel lobby. I mean, it was pretty—

what was he pissed off about? Was he pissed off about your views on designing?

He didn't say. It was a 2-minute interaction. He said, you better watch out.

And then, yeah, that's all. Other than that, I mean, like, I've seen your videos. Fuck you.

People, young people and few females, but mostly people come up and say, thanks what you're doing.

What, 2021? The first Miss World pageant post-COVID. We had a Miss South Africa named Lalela. The article is online. Feel free to Google it. And she was from KZN. I was on Gagazi FM. We are proud Zulus. We love that station. We love our people. And our girl won. And now she had the opportunity to go and compete at Miss World. Now, like I said earlier in the podcast, I'm from Vrede, bro. Panya. It's a farm. We had a long-drop toilet. Okay, yeah. When somebody from KZN makes it, the whole of KZN makes it. So you understand. And here she was with this opportunity to compete on the world stage, and people were like, no, Miss SA shouldn't send her there because Miss World is being held in Israel. I said, who the fuck cares? Even if it's being held in Mogadishu, correct? We need her to attend the pageant and win, win the pageant. And this is going to unlock her life and the lives of thousands, hundreds of thousands of young black girls back home who now can see that it's possible.

Correct.

There is no way that Miss South Africa should entertain any of this rubbish, my friend. It's a single— I've never received so many tweets, DMs, Instagram DMs. They even got my WhatsApp number from people with Palestinian flags.

Me too. And I was like, this is bots from overseas.

Yes. Others were telling me, you don't understand the plight. I said, I'm not even there. I'm talking about this young girl.

Let's fix South Africa.

Yes.

Forget Israel.

This is a young girl who grew up in KZN's dream. Why should her dream be put on hold for a fight she's got? She's got no dog in this race.

Correct.

What's up?

Agreed. Let's fix South Africa. Let's get behind South Africa. So, so, Worris, I want to— firstly, I'm a big fan.

Thank you, sir.

I'm super excited to have been on an interview with you.

Oh, we bros now.

Yeah, we bros.

I've got a place to stay in Cape Town like day and night.

Oh, 100%. 100%. We're going to throw a lekker party. Yeah. Give a message. Give a message to all South Africans. Give your message to all South Africans.

Oh, I would say, I would just like to say like a message, like a message of hope. You know, I think, you know, that never give up spirit. I hope it's something that, I think it's something that embodies us as a nation. And I'd like people to think that way. You know, it's not— it'll be okay in the end. And if it's not okay, then it's not the end. You know, we— there is more good South Africans who are fighting the fight and they will fight the fight tooth and nail than the media, social media would have you believe. They would have you believe that this is just a completely out of control chaotic situation and everybody's bad and there's no good people behind the scenes actually doing the work. I can tell you, from police to politicians to business people, white, black, Indian, colored, to even gangsters, there are those that are in the fight to save this nation. You might not know about them, but they're there, and I think they're going to win. So, you know, don't be fooled by what you see on social media and in the media and all the shit that people talk. That's not the real situation. And I think it needs all of us to be active citizens. I think we need to do what we can, start in your own community. If you can make it happen there, you can extrapolate that and you can make it happen everywhere. That's my plan. That's what I'm doing.

And the final thing is my wife and I have a tattoo. I have a tattoo here. She has a tattoo on this side. So when we're on top of each other, the Māori, it's a Māori priest that did it for us. The koru connects and that's our love and the connection.

I love that.

But if we—

yin and yang. Yin and yang.

But if we did another tattoo, my wife and I, what should it say?

It should say matching one.

Well, if she does one and I do one, I don't know where we'd put them, but is there a message that we should carry on our bodies all day long? You can come back to me on this one.

Yeah, I'll have to give it some thought.

Put it in the comments.

Actually, I was thinking it would have to be one single phrase, but half that phrase would have to be on you while half that phrase would have to be on her. But it can't be something stupid like No, like, like, eat me, baby. Together forever.

No, exactly. Or love conquers all.

No, nothing gay like that. All right, well, let's put in the comments what you think it should be.

Yeah, and then maybe we'll set a challenge on this one. Well, I love you, man.

Please then don't get divorced because then you'll be stuck with the challenge forever.

She's forever. Love you, man.

She's forever.

Thank you, brother.

What a pleasure. Thank you very much.