Carl Hartley | The Truth About Electric Cars & Inside the Luxury Car Industry

Carl, what's the biggest scam in the supercar market?

The biggest scam. So the supermarket supercar market is full of scammers, so it's going to be hard to. To pinpoint what the biggest scam. But I've heard of some really bad scams. Well, when I say scams, not so much a scheme, but, you know, I know there's stories out there where dealerships are using people's cars that are on sale or return, putting miles on them, clocking them, mileage manipulation to get rid of the miles. I've seen it firsthand.

Wow.

I've seen it firsthand with dealers. I've seen dealers proof. Actually, if you. If I could let you into that. I have proof of. Of a specific dealership who have.

Well matched. They well know.

Yeah. That you'd know them.

Yeah, you.

You definitely know them.

Okay.

They. They crashed a guy's car while it was on sale of return. They.

And I take it they didn't tell him.

Well, I didn't. I knew nothing about this. None of my business. Obviously it's none of my business, but an ex employee sent me pictures of the guy's car. A customer who I know and basically told me the story. I have evidence on my phone so that they smashed his car, repaired it, give it back to him, didn't tell him. And then I think this scorned employee made it his business to tell the owner. I hear things like that all the time. You hear stories, but there's stories and then there's proof, you know, so, yeah, there's a. There's a lot of. There's a lot of untoward that goes on in the, in the supercar business.

What about all these cars that it's the same car, but it's a little different edition, a limited edition, this edition, that edition? Is it just Empress new clothes just charging you a load of money for the same car?

Well, you, you know, you get towards the end of a manufacturer's life of a model, you'll get the runoff chassis that they will then make an addition. It's just. They'll just pile all the extras on a car, make the grill black, call it a night edition, charge 20 grand more. Say they've only made a hundred pieces and all of a sudden it's, you know.

So is that a scam or is that just good marketing?

Well, that's good marketing. I don't think that's a scam. Not doing anything wrong. They're just utilizing their materials.

All right, Is it playing their customers for fools. It's Nissan GTR. I got the. Is it R35, the later one, and I got that, I got a 2007 import, the Japanese one. And they just keep tweaking it and tweaking it and it's still the same brake. Yeah. Still the same car, different bumper. 15 or whatever years later.

Well, what they've. What Nissan have done with that car, to be fair, they've rinsed it. Yeah. That was a, that was a 45 grand car when it came out. That was the cost price.

I paid 20 late 20s for mine.

Yeah. So new, new in 2010 or late 2009, the Japanese cars came over. The UK cars were like 2010, they were, they were 45 grand. Black edition, Recaro edition.

Yeah.

And then just your standard one. The Recaro edition, by the way, or the black edition, rather, had two red stripes on the seat. That was it. There was nothing else and it was like extra whatever. Everyone was like, oh, I've got a black edition. You've got two red stripes down the seat. Great. Now what's the new cost or the last cost price of the Nissan GTR? I bet it was 110. 120.

Yeah. Lambo. Have they done it with the Hurricane? I mean, I can't have lost count. And I think you've got the Technica here. Stoato st.

Put some fog lights on the front.

Yeah.

Plastic arches.

Yeah.

Good car, by the way. Good car. I'm gonna be. I'm not gonna have.

It's all the same car.

I know, but I'm not gonna have Serato slagged off. That's a good car.

But why would you drive a Lambo Hurricane in the desert?

No, not in the desert. Just like speed bumps. Yeah, but you just have the Sterra. Doesn't come with lift.

No, of course, because it's higher so.

I don't have to slow down.

It looks, it looks like a huracan on stilts. Yeah, I like it, which is what it is.

But what I like about it as well, this I'm showing my age now is the tires. They're a thicker profile tire. They're an off road tire, essentially. Really. And God, the car just drives. It's a bit softer than the sto because the STO's got bigger wheels, smaller profile tires. It's quite soft. It's a little bit higher. You don't have to worry about scraping the front. It's four wheel drive. It looks bonkers. Which I think is. I think it's cool.

I Like things that are different but it's not different. It's the same car.

Yeah, it's the same car exactly. But it's got some plastic arches and some fog lights.

But. So if it were, if the marketing works on you, it's going to work on ordinary people like us. You've seen every car there is and.

I'm batting their corner. I'm telling you to buy one. You know, I'm saying that's a cool car, but, yeah, it's the same.

And also, I guess we're led to believe that these limited editions will go up in value.

Do they, though the, the problem, I think that manufacturers are, are doing wrong. What is a limited edition now?

Well, nothing is.

Yeah, but what, what number would you class as limited on A special car?

100, 500, depending on the car.

100 to 500, I say.

Yeah.

What cars are that now? The new Ferrari F80, I think, is one of 800 cars.

When.

When did, when did that happen? You know, an F50 was one of 349.

Right.

An Enzo was one of 399. LaFerrari was one of 499. And now the F80 is one of 800.

What are they doing then?

There's more buyers out there.

Just. Is it purely commercial? They just want to make more money.

I honestly feel like these manufacturers are very conscious of cutting out the likes of us, the gray market, if you will. For example, when a LaFerrari came out, it was a million pounds plus tax. So in the UK, at 1.2 million, and it was a lot of money back then for a car, but, you know, there were cars at that kind of price. This new F80, which has 40% more units, is coming out at £3 million plus tax, so it's 3.6 unspec'd. So what they realized is the LaFerrari, as soon as it came out, went from 1.2 to 2.5 because of us, right? Because I'd say to you, you have no relationship with Ferrari, you want a LaFerrari, it's going to cost you 2.5. The guy who played the game with Ferrari, he's cashed in, he's quid's in, he's lost some money, but he's earned a lot of money. Everyone's happy, I've earned some money, everyone's happy. But this. Now these manufacturers are going, right, screw you, guys. We know that we can get the end price for our cars, so we're.

Going to charge it but then people are like, well, they're way too expensive, they make more. So the demand is.

Ferrari will always sell 800 cars. Always. There's always 800 people.

Holy shit.

Yeah, that happens. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, it is on like a PIR sensor. Ferrari will always sell. There's always 800 people in the world that are buyers of, of that car.

But I just have a feeling like cars are really expensive now. Not just the F80, but everything. This thing behind you, how do you actually say it?

Pursangue.

Pursangue, yeah. And what do you call it? What's its nickname?

Purasaurus.

Purasaurus. It does look like a baby dinosaur. You were moaning to me about the price of that and you've owned cars worth millions of pounds.

So whether I like something and appreciate it comes down to the value of it. I don't mean that as if it's super expensive. I automatically like it because it's expensive. What I mean is if I see value in that item, if I see really good value, I like it. If I don't see value in it and I do like it, but then I don't like it, you know, so.

Basically the price is linked to the value and something can be expensive and you love it. Or not that expensive and not love it.

Exactly.

So. So you're comparing a 4x4 Ferrari with an URUS or something else. And if the price is up, you've.

Got to look at. I mean that's. We spoke earlier and you said, you know, what are they like, what are the pure Sangways like? I said, look, it's a great car. V12, naturally aspirated. The only thing that I think lets it down a little bit is it's only got four seats. So it's strictly a four seater car. Which for the audience that they're targeting, let's say they're targeting the extremely wealthy businessman's wife. Take the kids to school. Daily user school run car. Like what a URUS was sort of targeted at. Well, a lot of people have more than two kids, you know, and by law you can't put a child, I think, in 12 or less in the front of a car.

Right.

So they've got to get the back.

Yeah.

Like myself, I've got three kids, so if the car was 100 grand, it's no use to me, I can't buy it. So. But Ferrari is saying that it's not. They're not accepting the fact or acknowledging the fact that it's a suv. It obviously Is an suv. It's a four wheel drive, jacked up Ferrari. Yeah, it's an. It's an suv. That's what we call an suv. But they're like, no, no, no, it's not. It's not an suv.

And how much is it new?

New price? Well, the new price on that car was 425, 000.

So is that good value at 425?

Well, I've just sold it for less than. Less than cost price.

Right. Which is not abnormal, but over recent years is abnormal.

Yeah.

I mean, but do you think that's good value for 425 grand for a 4x4?

No, I think if the car was 300,000, I would say, rob, they're amazing cars that were urusing.

So this is my problem. When car manufacturers try and cut the gray market out, increase the price so much, in the end we go, they're not worth it and we won't pay it for it. And then they drop.

Then the prices drop. Yeah.

And isn't that what's happening in a way?

Of course it's what's happened. I mean, Lamborghini ruralto, okay, when they first came out, which weren't that long ago. You've seen these dealers who don't know what they're doing. Okay. They haven't been around long enough to understand the market. They're putting cars up for 799,950, you know, 800,000 for a car that costs 500,000. Because they just want to be seen to have one, you know, oh, we've got one. Well, anyone could have one if you're advertising one at 800,000. That car. Now, we're not charging over list for a new revolto. It's 550,000. Yeah, it's not over list. And now because we put one on at that price, people are like, okay, we look stupid now. Oh, no, you've looked stupid for months, you know, so. Yeah.

So when was the last time you saw it where cars would drop? Even nice cars, like a revelto.

I've seen it all my life. The only time I didn't see it was during COVID Yeah, yeah. There was like a 3.3year blip.

So everyone's been acting like that's normal and everything goes above list.

But those are people who are not experienced in the supercar market. I mean, yes, there'll always be cars that go up in value. Of course there will be. And there'll always be cars a whole. But predominantly, predominantly these cars. When you see someone driving a Lamborghini, back in the day, when you couldn't afford to buy a Lamborghini and you'd see someone driving a Lamborghini, you would, number one, think they're very wealthy because of the price of the car that they're driving, but also the fact that they can afford to drive that car, they can afford the loss in that car. If, if, if people didn't lose money in cars, everyone would have a Cullinan, a Revolt or a P1. Yeah, of course they would. Why not?

It's like a bank account, you know, it's like.

Finance is easy to get these days. It's not really that expensive. You know, put 10% down on a revolto, it's 55 grand, pay two and a half grand, three grand a month. Like you've got. You've got a half a million pound car, but it's, it's all of a sudden, it's not, you know, it's not 600,000, it's now worth 4. 450. So you've lost 150. Well, I can't afford to lose 150. Well, then you can't afford to have the car.

Yeah.

You know.

So do you think the revelto. I'm an Aventador, only you know that. Is that really worth twice plus What? My Aventador.

We had this conversation before about an SVJ and your Aventador, if you're Matt, you can remember. Yeah. You said, is an SVJ worth twice as much? Because an SVJ is the same price as that now. So the question is, what would I rather have an SVJ or Revolto? Because they're the same price.

So you asking me?

Yeah.

In terms of owning and using.

Yeah.

I mean, I haven't driven a Revolto yet, so assuming it's a next level up from the Aventador, which is gearbox. Yeah. Which my Aventador doesn't have. So I'd want the better one.

Of course.

So the SVJ is.

So which one's overpriced?

The svj, which is what I said to you when I came here last time, but you said, no, they're 500. And that's.

That was before that. Right. You know, that was before that. That's an amazing car. And SVJ is an amazing car and it is limited. It's not that limited, though. It is 900 coupes, 800 roadsters. So if you add that together, the 1700 cars.

So should we not be looking at the model number sv? Svj and actually look at how many cars were made because you can get some watches that aren't limited editions, but they hardly make any. Yeah, of course, because I, you know, you know, I like the APs. I mean they made a million of these bloody watches just in a different shape. And I fell for it every time I've got one on my wrist because it said limited edition.

Yeah.

But the ceramic ones, I got a chance to buy all the white, the black, the blue ceramic. And because they weren't limited edition, I didn't buy them because I was suckered by limited edition. But they're much lower numbers because they can't make many. Yeah, I mean, so limited edition is a scam.

A friend of mine had the blue ceramic one on last week when I seen him and it's the first time I've seen a blue ceramic. I've seen the white, it's in the black. Both incredible. Seen the blue.

I know, it is amazing.

That's a watch. Yeah, that's a watch.

And are they still, what, 400ish?

Yeah. I mean, get one, try and get one.

See, that's not a limited edition. No, but they can't make many of them because the ceramic process is so.

Hard, it takes so long.

Yeah. So should we ignore all the marketing and branding from cars and just look at how many they actually made?

But that, car enthusiasts do that. For instance, Porsche went through. Or Porsche. For a lot of you viewers who.

Are, you're going to get trolled for.

Saying Porsche, Porsche says Porsche. I have a word for you.

What's that word for them?

It's a four letter word. There's actually two of them in the 90s in the 993 model. They made some really, really rare cars that were never marketed as, you know, one of 100 or one of 50 or one of. I mean, I'm talking less than that. Less than that. Some cars, you know, I think they made a 993 Turbo convertible. I think it was one of nine. One of nine, wow. What they just do is they, they'd do a very short run and just say to their best customers, you know, there's this car available. So they never actually, they weren't ever for sale. They just, they just were given or not given, but sold to top, top, top clients. They've done the same with, with a Porsche 964 lightweight Turbo. A lack bow, they call it. Like these cars barely existed. Yeah, I mean, we're talking tens, not hundreds. We're talking tens, right?

So if you want a car that appreciates you in value, you've got to look at how many were actually made. And none of the other shiny shit.

Of course. Of course. Because manufacturers do the opposite these days. To go, this is limited edition to 7,000 pieces. Not really much. Liv is in about that, mate. You know, it's nothing's. I said to you earlier, you know, what is a number for a limited edition car? If you'd have asked me five years ago, I'd have said less than 200. I now acknowledge the fact that it's got to be less than 500. Anything more than 500 is not, is not a low numbered car.

Why is the supermarket. Why is the supercar market crashed?

It hasn't crashed. We're directly back to where we were in 2019.

Yeah, but it went up so high.

It's Covid. Supply and demand.

So it's corrected if it's not crashed because supply is back up, Is that what you're saying?

It's just things are now back to normal, they're back running supply, so.

But these are 550 grand.

It's inflation.

Yeah, it's inflation.

Inflation, yeah.

Is it, is it natural?

How much did a holiday cost 10 years ago?

Yeah, but this is just one model.

Up from the aventador, which was 10 years ago.

Is it price inflation or is it Greedflation?

I think, I think it's price inflation. I think when you look pro rata, I mean, yes, cars have gone up a disgusting amount in the. In what, one new model? I mean, Range Rover is the best example in the world. They've literally, they've. They've gone up 70% from one month.

That's not just inflation. Inflation hasn't gone up that. I mean, it's gone up. But that's also Greedflation, surely.

Well, I say they've gone up that. They have, but they haven't because the prices now are nearly back to where the old model was.

Which was my point. My point was if you pay. If that is three times the cost. Because what, what would my Aventador? 180 grand.

No, when, when an Aventador came out, they were 250.

Yeah. So I paid 255.

Yeah.

And now it's 550.

Yeah.

So, yeah, 110.

Yeah.

That's a lot. Inflation hasn't been 110 in 10 years. I mean, it's been, well, you know, maybe 50.

I compare it to things like hotel rooms in London, in the West End. Okay.

But you can't compare anything to a hotel room.

Why?

Because they've gone up more than anything else in the world ever.

But it's inflation.

It's. But it's greed for luxury.

It's luxury inflation. There's a different inflation. Hotels gone.

Watches gone wild. So they're mugging us off because they think we've got the money. They're mugging us off.

Look at fuel costs.

Yeah, but that doesn't affect the manufacturer. They just make the car.

No, but what you need to put in your car, you know, you know, so everything is a luxury. It's a luxury tax.

Now we're getting somewhere. But you, you've also said that you think they're trying to cut the gray market.

I think manufacturers are. Because they've realized that because they can.

Make more money, they can make more money.

Why are we leaving it to Tom Hartley Cars to. We're not making a million pounds, but we might be selling it for a million over list. The guy who's made a million pounds is the guy who had to play your game and lose thick end of a million pounds. Which now he's getting back to. He hasn't made a million pounds. You still made more. Yes, than everybody. So just, just keep everybody happy.

Well, you would say that you're a great. You. You would say, you know, but, yeah, you, you, that. All that extra margin.

No, they get both bites of the cherry. They make you lose a ton of money on cars.

Yeah.

To get the car that you want.

Yeah.

And now the car that you want, you're now giving them all your profit to buy the car because the price has gone up that much.

I don't think that that Revelto, no matter what it did, is worth double the price of my Aventador. So I'm like you all. So you all. I'll keep my. I'll keep my seven old cars. I. I'm more interested in the, you know, the 100. 150 gram Ferrari. I mean, a 4 3rd.

Well, they're going nowhere in value, as in down, you know, they're not going down.

430, 100 grand, which, what you got there, the 488 is, by the way. Yeah. 150 grand, 160 grand. That's where the value is, surely.

That is where value is. Yeah, of course. And that's why we sell five of those a week.

Right, but so the market are getting this. So surely the market are going, right, well, these things are half or there's just too much money. Out there and they just buy them.

There is a lot of money out there. There's. It's unbelievable how much money there is out there.

Well, because assets have gone like that.

They just. So people. People's confusion on the car market of hitting a. A crash, let's call it, compared to where it was. Yes, it's crashed percentage wise in value, but compared to where it was, it was before that. It stayed exactly the same. Okay.

Yeah. It's normal.

So all we've done is just go. We bitcoined it. Yeah. And then we pumped and dumped and dumped. Exactly. So I'll revert back to another scenario which will give you a different outlook on the Revolto. As an example, what car? Say you had a million pounds to spend on a car. I want to spend a million pounds on a car. I want a car that looks insane. That's 1,000 brake horsepower. That's way too fast to drive. It looks like the fucking Batmobile and I've got a million pound to do it. What do you buy?

I'd come to you and get you to give me 200 grand off that P1 behind us.

Well, you wouldn't be getting 200 grand.

Off of it, but you'd look after me.

That is a cheap car. Yeah, but what, what I mean is there's a good.

If I could get that, you know, just over the million, is that a good car?

For that money, I guarantee somebody who buys that car will earn 250, 000 a year for the next three years on that specific car. I just, I just took it off sale and put it up 100,000, put it back on sale. And all my customers were like, carl, you've put the P1 up 100 grand. I'm like, yeah, well, you know, last week it was 1.1, now it's 1.250. Yeah, well, can we have it for 1.150? No, because who decides when that car. There's a period in time where that car takes a leap. It's not my fault. I own it in the time where it took a leap. So I'm not going to give it to you for yesterday's price. Yesterday's price is not today's price.

Even if we're friends and we're friends.

Together, you might get a little.

I'll remember that.

You might get a little bit. But you know what, What I mean is, no, people were holding back and didn't want to buy it when it was 1.150. Now it's 1.250 people want to buy one. 1.150.

Yeah.

Yesterday's price is not today's price. And. But that could work both ways.

Yeah. So when you asked what I'd buy for about a million, said the P1. Why did you ask that?

Because there's a massive void in the market, cost wise, between half a million and a million.

As in there's no cars, there's nothing. But for between half a million and a million.

No.

Right.

What supercars out there? Because every supercar that comes out now is 1.6. You know.

Yeah.

You know, there's. Okay, you get the revolt or you get a Senna McLaren Senna, which is a limited car to 500 cars. It's a good car. That's between. But that's just a big void. There's nothing there. Yeah. So Lamborghini are just trying to separate themselves from really from Ferrari to an extent where they go, look, we've always sold cars that cost more in our supercar range in Ferrari. Always have.

But then Ferrari have come and Ferrari way more than Ferrari are not far behind them.

Exactly. Yeah. Way more than the Urus. The SF90 costs the same price as the Revolto. Do they.

Do any of these give a fuck about their customers?

In what way?

Well, bang the price up. Bang the price up. Get more than Ferrari, more than Lamborghini. Do you actually think about.

I can't be hypocritical here.

Yes, you can.

What I mean is, why can't you be hypocritical? There's a lot of cars that I sell to people that I think, well, I could have probably afforded to take two grand less on that car, but I didn't because he was going to buy it and I would rather have it than somebody else have it.

Yeah, but I guess because you're a gray market dealer, you've probably done the opposite too, where you've shaved off a bit more than you'd like.

But the difference being, I am purchasing something that's already made and manufactured. I'm not manufacturing it, you know, so I have a big element of risk here.

So you're saying I shouldn't begrudge them making money. That's their product. They can do what they want.

You either choose to play the game or you don't.

Yeah, I mean, I can choose not to buy it. Exactly. But I have an Aventador, and at better money, I'd be a Revolto customer because, like you, I like value. Now, maybe they don't care, maybe they Just want people with fuck you money who don't care.

Why don't you think that shows value?

Because it is not twice as good as my Aventador.

But it's fucking isn't. The other argument is that it's the same price as an Aventador as an svj. And you know what?

I told you that the SVJ is.

It is twice. It is twice a car. You're event at all.

You just want to sell.

No, it is.

You just want to sell me.

It is a thousand brake horsepower. It's double clutch gearbox. You're not going to tell me your Aventador looks nicer than that?

No, it doesn't look nicer. But I mean it still looks great.

Yeah, it still looks great.

But in 30 years, maybe the Aventador does look nicer.

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.

You should be a politician.

I should be a politician. I'd be better than this other idiot we've got.

Okay, so you don't think we're getting mugged off. You'd think it's just the game.

I think certain brands are mugging people off. I think that was a bad example.

Okay.

I mean, I think the Pura Sang.

Is a good example of mugging punters off.

Yeah.

Because it's just too much money and it doesn't even have five seats.

So. Okay, so the. So what's going to make the matters even worse here, right, is Ferrari would say to their clients, they'd say, right? A client would walk in like, I'd like to order a purse hang, please. And they go, okay, absolutely no chance. Well, why not? Well, all of our customers want one. We're only getting so many a year. You can't have them. But if you buy a 296 for 300 grand and a 296 GTS for 340 grand, we will get your Pursang. And they think, oh God. Well, they're so. They're so short in. They're so short in supply, these purangs. Okay, I'm going to lose a little bit of money on the 296s. 200 grand and the 296s. But I'm going to make, I'm going to make that up on the persang. I've been selling Pursangs for less than list for six months. So you've played the game. You've lost 100 in the 296, 100 in the 296 GTS and you're now losing 50 in a pursang.

That is mugging off.

That's mugging you off. That's mugging you off.

Ferrari seem to be able to do whatever the fuck they want.

They're the best brand in the world.

And what, they'll just keep getting away with doing whatever the fuck they want.

They will always. I'm a massive Ferrari fan.

I am as well.

So like.

But there comes a point where you're like, is it just that when you're that good you can do what the you want? It's like Ricky Gervais can't get cancelled in comedy. Can say what he wants cuz he's that good. Is it just like that? They're just that good.

Of course. Who's, who's going to, who's, who is going to say that they're not allowed to do it? They're not putting a gun to anybody's head. They're not forcing them to do anything you want.

No, wait a minute. No, they are because Biebers can't get. Justin Bieber can't get a Ferrari. Kim Kardashian can't get a Ferrari from Ferrari.

There's other outlets.

They. But they can't buy a Ferrari from Ferrari.

Why?

Well, I was going to ask you why, you know, why.

Was it because they modified it or something? Yeah, I know. Philip Plein, the fashion designer, had a big court case with them and he won.

What? Because they what, what happened?

I think he wrapped his car in a stupid color and. Well, yeah, it was marketing, wasn't it? You know, it was marketing. And then he displayed a set of trainers on the bonnet or done something, you know, Ferrari and they, they, they told me wasn't allowed any more cup, but he publicized it. He posted all the emails saying that he couldn't do this, couldn't do that and never heard no more about it. But then all of a sudden he's taken delivery of a new SF90 Spider from Ferrari and everyone's happy and shaking hands.

So they did a deal.

They might have done a deal because, you know, he's, you know, he's got someone like that with tens of millions of followers. They've got a lot of pull. It's just bad press. You don't want to be good, you don't. No one wants bad press.

So even. So even Ferrari have a limit on their arrogance then?

No, I think they have to, they have to set their stall out, you know, because if they send you a letter and tell you you can't have another Ferrari. Because you're going to say, well, why is it. What is it just because I'm, you know, I. I haven't got. I mean, I know you're a bad example, you've got a load of followers, but, you know, I've got 10 million followers. And I said, well, Justin Bieber's got 200 million followers and he's not allowed on.

But he's not allowed on because he modified it. Yeah, because I can't decide what I think here because part of me thinks that probably makes you want their brand more.

Of course it does.

The fact that they're a bit standoffish and arrogant and.

Yeah, fuck you.

I mean, I like artists like that, I like musicians like that, but because I want one and I don't want to get mugged off, it pisses me off as well.

Because human. That's human nature. Human nature is. You're like, oh, I can't have one, can I not? No. All right.

That's your nature.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, the worst thing you could say to me is, no, that's the. I don't even want it, but I just want. I want to piss you off. That's the worst thing you can say to me is, no, you can't have that. It's not available. If I want to get into a restaurant, I want to come across like such a prick here. But if I want to get into a restaurant and every. It's always last minute with me, I can have a table for four. It's five o' clock on a Saturday, I want it for eight o' clock on a Saturday. And they're like, nah, no chance. I. I'm not bothered whether I eat in the restaurant or not. I didn't really care in the first place, but now I have to get a table, you know, I have to get a table, so I have to call somebody or call through another avenue and somehow get a table and then 50% of the time I don't turn up anyway.

And you wasted three hours.

Yeah, but it was just, you know, it's just my wife reckons I've got adhd. Is that part of adhd?

I don't know, I'm not a doctor.

She reckon I've got a few things, but that was. That's worth it.

It might be a somewhat obsessive compulsive. It might be because you've been buying and selling cars for what, 30 years?

Well, 25 years, yeah.

I mean, watch the previous episodes I've done with Carl. Because you told the story about selling your first car, We've done all that already. But maybe it's just you love the sport of what you do. You know, you do it in cars. You have to do it. You have to do it in watches. You have to do it.

Yeah, so. So the art negotiation is that someone always says no every time. So you always know.

Are you trying to get it quickly, to get beyond it, or is there a bit more tactic to it?

If. If you went to negotiate with me on a car and you said, Carl, that P1, I want to give you a million pounds for it, I. And I went, okay, Rob, you'd think.

Oh, me should have offered nine.

Gone in a bit fast here, you know, like, this could have come for less. So everyone says no.

Yeah.

So when someone says no to me, I'm used to people saying no. No doesn't mean anything. Like, no doesn't mean anything.

Yeah.

It just means, okay, I need to. I need to tackle this from another angle. That's all no is.

Yeah. I do remember when we were upstairs with your dad and I had my Richard meal on and you offered me too low at first, so I was like, nah. So is that a bit of a risk? Sometimes if you're going too low, you're out. Because I think if you'd have offered me a bit more, because I know you would have come up because what you offered was low. If you'd offered me a bit more, I might have. You might have drew me in a bit, but you just offered me too low and we're supposed to be friends.

Well, you didn't give me any. You didn't give me any. Any. Any.

No, I didn't throw the ball back. No, because you offered too low, so you need. You threw the ball way over there to run and get it.

So you need. You know, in a situation like that, what I'm expecting is you'd go, no, car, that's too low. I wouldn't. I wouldn't think of selling it for any less than. Right, whatever. Then I'm like, okay, so now we've started.

Yeah, okay, so. So I fold. Started. I didn't even.

You. You stalled.

Yeah, but you went in too low.

I don't. I don't really think it was for sale anyway.

Everything's for sale.

Yeah, exactly. But at the time when I've still.

Got it, I've still got it.

And, yeah, I know you love it, so it probably isn't for sale.

No. And I did end up giving you the Porsche to sell anyway. After, didn't I?

So we've both done all right out there.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, Harry, you're right. All right, cool. Carl, what's the most overrated supercar brand?

Oh, the most overrated supercar brand. Lotus. Is that even a supercar brand? I don't acknowledge it as a supercar brand, but they do make this hyper supercar. It's just awful. Lots of trouble, usually serious. Lotus stands for.

I take it doesn't stand for that.

I think it does. Don't know what. I couldn't think of what else it could possibly stand for and.

Are you talking about them? There's something going on. Is it. Are they Chinese back now?

I don't know what. I'm not. I'm not even interested in looking or tolerating a Lotus whatsoever. You'll never. You will never see me sell a Lotus or a Tesla unless it's a cyber truck. I do want to buy a Cybertruck, Elon. No, I. I do want to. I really do want to buy.

Let me show you this though. It's. This is just serendipitous.

My little boy Christian is obsessed with cyber trucks.

Right. They're not even that expensive and they're ugly as.

But that. But you know, doing something is so vulgar. Like that Cullinan, right?

Yeah, that is. I don't get it. I don't get that. I don't get that. I absolutely love that because it's so vulgar.

It's so vulgar. It goes full 360. People look at you and they don't know what to say or think. They don't. You know, they just. They're just completely taken back by this monstrosity of a car that has now got kit and 24 inch wheels and carbon fiber and being lowered and they're like. Oh, fuck's sake. Like.

And 400 grand.

And 400 grand. Yeah. Love it.

Right, Let me ask you about this. This is random, but I like these Esprit. You said Lotus.

Okay, so they're not a lot of money. That's where it comes back to the value conversation, right?

Yeah.

These Lotuses they're bringing out. I don't know. I have to see how much. I don't even pay attention to Lotus. But there's one. I think it's like 300 grand or 400 grand or something, or even more. Didn't. It crashed at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, didn't it?

Right.

Which standard? But this is 16 grand. Like, forget the car. The fact that you want it and you like it. And it's 16 grand. It shows good value.

Yeah.

You know, but the new Lotuses that are out there are 100. I mean, have you seen these, these Lotus SUVs, these electric ones?

Yeah.

God, they're awful.

They look weird.

They're awful.

Okay, so what's, what's the most overrated supercar brand of the Big four?

I don't think, I don't think there is an overrated. They all do different things. They have. They have overrated models. I think so.

The most overrated model.

Most overrated model. I feel bad saying anything about Ferrari because I love Ferrari. Lamborghini. Lamborghini are fine. I want to look at Porsche. But they're not really that expensive to say they're overrated.

I mean, McLarens drop a lot, don't they? I think McLarens are underrated, but only secondhand.

Yeah. Oh yeah. New price. Yeah, but the reason they're so expensive new is because you know what, they're going to be second hand with a Ferrari, the new price is normally quite close to what the second hand price is.

Right.

So that's just the price of them. You look at a 765 LT, what car?

The one you've got.

Yeah, I mean I've got one, but yeah, you know, whatever. And I challenge you to go and drive a better car than.

Well, also the way it looks. We just drooled over.

It looks amazing. Drives insane. It just has. That's such a bad rep. We've had this conversation so much.

We have, yeah.

You know, is it getting better? It's got a bad rep for people who have never had one.

You know, I've never had one, but my business partner, he's just research forever and cost of servicing. You nick it, how much it costs, how much they got. I mean they're aftercare. I mean it's pretty well known their.

Aftercare is a shit show.

Yeah.

You know, they're their own worst enemy. But I do think what with McLaren just sealing the constructors championship in F1.

Right.

F1 really affects the, the car market.

Yeah, yeah, really.

Really affects the car market. So now McLaren to win the Constructors Championship, it shows that we are the most consistent car on the track. Okay. We have, we have had the best consistent finishes throughout the whole year. So that aims to reliability. Yeah. If your car's not reliable, you can't get the best finishes throughout the year. So all of a sudden McLaren could turn around and say, actually guys, in motorsport we are the most reliable car on the track. We haven't got the best two drivers on the track. We haven't got the best car on the track, but we are the most consistent.

So why do they drop so much?

Because, like, sometimes they set on fire. Only sometimes. What car doesn't set on fire now and again?

Porsche.

Yeah, they do.

Do they?

Yeah, the 2000. And when was it the GT3? I don't know if it was the 991 GT3. When it came out, they all set on fire. They all had to have an engine replacement as a recall.

Wow.

Yeah. But, you know, Porsche, we've talked about Porsche, Porsche, Porsche are not supercar.

You don't think they're a super.

I don't class them.

You must sell loads of GT2, GT3 RSS. Yeah, I always see loads in here.

Yeah.

And you're saying they're not a supercar?

My definition of what a supercar is isn't a Porsche. It's far too reliable.

But you're far too practical. You're a supercar dealer. I am. And you stock loads of Rolls Royce. Porsche. Rolls Royce.

Yeah.

So basically. So you. You'd sell anything if it was the right.

Yeah, I mean, my market consists. I mean, look, before people start jumping on the comments, let them.

You don't give a fuck, do you?

I don't give a fuck. Especially the Porsche people. But anyway, they're too good of a car.

How can something be too good to say bad?

Because we've had this conversation before. You know, imagine never having a misword or laughter or an argument or anything with. With your wife. You just get the same monotone mood all the time. It's not that bad, but it ain't that good.

Sounds like my wife.

Well, nickname her Porsche because. Because that. That. You just get. You just get the same thing. Yeah, I know. People are gonna be like, oh, my God, I've got a GT4RS or an RS Spider. And it's so great.

It's the same car, though. Yeah, but same platform.

You know, there's a special type of owner in the supercar world and that is the owner of a Porsche Boxster RS Spider. They.

What are they?

Yeah, what are they? They. They. They're still virgins, I think.

I wonder what we'll see in the comments about that.

Oh, well, it is what it is.

Yeah. But I guess that's their gateway car. Is. Is it that at the end?

Not really. It's 150 grand.

Yeah.

Like that car specifically. I'm not about the Cayman or the Boxster. That's their gateway car. Yeah, that fits an audience. Yeah, that is my get on the ladder car. And they're good cars. The Spyder RS is for somebody who just fucking say they're just going to rip me. I don't care. Don't care. I'm doing a Ricky Gervais. I don't care. So that's for somebody who can afford pretty much all of Porsche's catalog, really. Turbo S, GT3. But no, you still want a Boxster?

Why would they still want a Boxster?

You tell me. Oh, because, you know the way the slip diff works against the off, you know, just, you know, just move on. Just move on.

On that note, I'll. We'll move on. Is.

Sorry. Not sorry.

Is car insurance a scam? And are car insurance companies a cartel?

Well, yeah, of course they're. Of course they're a cartel if they need to be. You, you cannot drive a car without insurance. So you, you have got a gun to your head there. You don't have to buy a Ferrari, you don't have to buy a Lamborghini, but you have to have insurance. Like you have to pay tax. Like you have to pay stamp duty.

Like, you love stamp duty.

Stamp duty at the minute. Yeah, it's great. So, yeah, you have to. And.

And there's no choice. So it feels a bit like a.

It's no choice. So it's. It's the cost. It's the part of the cost of owning the car.

Yeah.

So like I said before, when you seen the guy driving a Lamborghini when you were younger and you lost it after a Lamborghini, it wasn't so much just the cost of what the car costs from the dealership. It's part of the cost of the ownership that represents how successful that guy's done and his wealth to be able to afford that car.

And the depreciation and the insurance and the maintenance.

Exactly. So all of a sudden, okay, the car was back then, say 100 grand. 150. Wow. The guy's got 150 grand in one car. Yeah, but it's not that. It's the three grand for the service, it's the insurance and it's the depreciation that he's just set fire to. If the car doesn't drop in value, you've still lost a ton just running it. Just running it. So the cost of owning a. But I'm talking back in the day. In today's world, the, the.

Sorry, you can go from today. In today's world.

So in Today's world Ferrari offer a seven year free service pack. A lot of manufacturers offer at least 4 years free service and so, and the service costs are not very expensive anymore and in a minute every car's not going to have an engine so there'll be no servicing.

So do you think that's why. Another reason why the prices are going up, maybe loading it into the price.

They need to get them, they need to get the money from somewhere. Yeah. Because although I don't think Bugatti would ever skimp on their servicing costs, I think they're just going to keep it strong.

Well, we'll come back to that. I took my DBS to Aston. They wanted over a grand for the button that puts the window up and down. It's a piece of plastic. They wanted a thousand quid. Is that still going on? That like. Ridiculous.

Well, I've just had. Whilst we're here, I mean you can probably beat. I need, I need. Yeah, I'll beat it with the, with the Bugatti.

Tell us about that.

But I've just had a quote for a lens on a rear light of a car, a mass produced car.

Can you say what car is?

Yeah, Rolls Royce.

Right.

A rear lens, 2,479 excluding VAT. So they want £3,000 for the lens on a rear tail light. Not the tail light, the lens. I've had that since we've been talking, which has put me in a good mood.

What about that Bugatti part?

Oh, so, yeah, the, the, the window toggle. Not the window toggle, the mirror toggle. It was just loose. It worked, it was fine. I, I bet your window didn't work.

Just about does.

Yeah, mine worked perfectly fine. There was nothing wrong with it. Yeah, but because I'm a bit obsessive compulsive and OCD and whatever. I just had a bit of a, bit of a, bit of a movement in it. Have a look at that for me, will you, whilst it's here? Whilst I'm giving you 40 grand for a service, any chance you could just have a look at that for me? Yeah, okay, we'll email you a quote.

For your Bugatti Veyrano sauce.

Yeah, yeah, we'll email you a quote for the toggle for the mirrors. So I'm thinking, well, whenever someone's going to email you a quote, doesn't sound good, does it?

They don't want to say it to your face.

No. So I said, okay, no problem, £9,000 plus VAT. So I said once again, I'M all about value. Break it down. Make me understand why it's that price and I'll pay you. Just make me understand why it's that price. Okay. It's very easy, Carl, to break it down. Okay, so you need a new switch. Okay. I assume that you need a new door card. Okay. Need a new mirror, mirror motor. Why? Well, it all comes in one unit, so I can't come in one unit. A leather door card doesn't come in the same unit as the motor in a wing mirror. Well, that's just what it is. We don't. You can't individually do it. Guy I know done it. He done it for free. The part was 89 pence, and I got five of them. I got four of them in my desk just in case it happens again. Yeah. So you know. But you know, that's Bugatti tax. You got it. You got. You got to play this game and realize in life, the more expensive few things you have, the more luxury the item is, the more tax you pay. In order to do that, you've already.

Paid a load for the thing.

Okay. But you go, you go and buy a diamond from Hatton Garden and you buy the same stone from Graff or Boodles or a top name, top name brand. They haven't got their logo on the stone. It's the stones of stone. It come from a. A cave somewhere in Africa. Like, it is what it is. My stones, the same clarity and the same size and the same shape as yours. Mine's from Hatton Garden, yours is from Boodles. You pay five times the price. It's a luxury tax, my dbs. But what you've got to do. Stop you for a second my place. You need to. And by the way, I can say to an. To an extent that we can charge more for a car than certain people can charge.

You do you.

I can do you do. I do sometimes, yeah. But I give you value for it. I make it a special occasion. I cater to every service that you need to make sure that you get value out. Paying me extra. I also have that on 24 hours a day. So if there's a problem at any time, I'll send my team down to sort it out. There's no, like. I'll just take it to the dealer. Mate, I'm not interested. You paid me now. Like, it's a service that we supply here. You got to pay for the service. So as long as you get that service, you're happy to pay the luxury tax.

So back to insurance. My DBS was parked, same carpet. So back to insurance. My DBS was parked, same space. I park it every day outside of my office. I'm a lady in a Toyota Yaris. Backed into it, swapped details, went to claim on the insurance. My business partner's like, don't do that. The premium will go up. I said, well, it's her insurance.

His premium will go up as well.

Well, yeah, because we own these seven cars together. Oh. And all of our lettings come cars as well. So this is the scam. She crashed into me. Her bill might be 100 quid. My bill might be 500 quid. Two and a half grand. If I claim on her insurance, my DBS insurance goes up. The other six cars go up. An entire fleet of a letting agents that we own all go up because she crashed into my car.

Yeah.

How is that? What is that?

That. That is a. That is not fair. That's a scam. And I had a similar situation with a Land Rover Defender. We had a problem with a Land Rover Defender, which is not unlike people to have problems with them. But I do love. I do love a Defender, so I can't slag them off. You just. You got to live with the problem. It's like being married to a psycho girlfriend or something, you know? I mean, you know she's psycho, but you just. It's that good. So just, Just, Just keep going. It's fine, you know, so it's like that's. That's what you get with unreliable cars. That's what's on about supercars, you know, you just. You have to compare them to the happiness it brings you when it's good. Does it outweigh the sadness it brings you when it's bad and not so much when it's bad? Because cars are so reliable these days. The bad part is the cost. The cost. It costs to run. Does it make me more sad than when I'm happy? No. So I'm gonna buy one.

So. Out of the big four, which is the psycho Lamborghini. Right, Lamborghini. So it just takes you to such a high that the lows.

Well, it's a Lamborghini, you know. God, it's just, you know, it's the name. I know Ferrari's brand is far superior and the cars are great. I mean, everyone makes such good cars these days. But the fact of when you're a kid, to think one day you'll own a Lamborghini, it almost is a step above a Ferrari. Would you agree?

Yeah, I probably would, yeah.

It's a step above Ferrari.

Yeah.

So one day I'm going to own a Lamborghini. Lamborghini, yeah. That just gives you a buzz as it is. Even if it doesn't even start, the fact that you put it on the drive is great.

Do you wish they made more kind of cars at your level because you had the Zonda and they do make these centenarios or whatever.

But. Yeah, but that's a con because all that is an Aventador. Yeah, they made the, the, the, the, the, the Countach, the new, you know, the Limited. It's an Aventador. That's what I mean by it being a centenarian Aventador.

It's not, it's not there. What's it, what was it the, was it the Tiesto?

What was that? That was a Hurricane.

Yeah.

So no, a Gallardo. That was. Yeah, that was a Gallardo.

So basically they're just taking the car, putting a few things on, like end of the line. But they're charging millions for those things.

I think these manufacturers detune their engines to their capability of what they can take them to for future proofing the model. So you've got a thousand horsepower in that. Revolto. I guarantee by the time the SVJ comes out it'll be 12 or 1400 horsepower.

So they're thinking, be the same engine. They're thinking along the whole lineage.

Okay, well don't go, don't go too much. Let's leave a bit of room for later. Cuz we can't take this engine any further. If they went full out, but, but.

If they went full out and they made it so popular and so good and wiped everything out, they're not going.

To earn more money, are they? They're going to earn less money.

Greed.

Are they in business to make people happy or are they in business to make money?

Well, if they don't make people happy, they ain't going to make any money.

But there's a balance. So I need to make a certain amount of people happy and a certain amount of money for everyone to be happy.

That's true. And if you get it right, that's.

Why Pagani do exactly what you've said. Pagani make a hundred units of a car. 100 units. And their prices are extortionately expensive. But you either own Pagani or you don't.

But they make 100 units.

Make 100 units. That's it.

Yeah.

And by the way, you can buy a unit and we're not going to make a special edition but if you want to make a special edition, then you can come to us. We'll be your designer. You can tell us what you want, we can make it happen. And you might pay the same cost again than what you gave for the car to customize it. But it's called the RM edition, you know, one of one. I think that's great marketing because they understand that they can't make a thousand cars. No, they haven't got the capacity. They just. They can't. But what they do is they say, okay, our cars are £3 million. If you want any extras, you can have whatever you want. There's no spec you want. You want to air intake on the door, no problem. We'll do it. It's fine. But there's a lot of R and D needs to go into it and you need to pay for it. Okay, no problem. Yeah, keep going. It's fine.

That's the sort of thing you'd like.

Yeah, yeah, of course. That's. That's like separate. That separates, you know, that's when you're about, you know, driving something that is rare or driving something that is, you know, semi mass produced. You know, someone turns up in there, someone turns up in their LaFerrari. Rare car, 499 units. Until you pull up in your Pagani that even if it's standard. Mine was a standard car. It's still 1 of 99. But because I customized it, it's now 1 of 1. You'll never see this car ever again. Here.

Is this not just a dick measuring exercise?

Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is.

What about just choosing something that you really like? And who gives a fuck?

Because your mate's got the same. The same one.

So. And we're not women. We don't. It's not about the clothes you wear going out.

It is the same thing.

If we had the same watch on, I wouldn't care. Nice one. We've got the same watch. Some.

Yeah. You see, I.

You'd hate that, would you?

Yeah.

Oh, your face. There was a look of disgust in your face there.

You see this? This is off catalog piece.

So that's a Patek.

That's a Patek Philippe Nautilus. It's called a5723 1R. They've done three variants of this watch. None of them Patek acknowledge that they actually produce because they're an off catalog piece. What that means is when Patek released their catalog of all their watches they make, this has never been or will ever be in it. And they do one which is white gold with sapphires, they do a rose gold with rubies, and they do a rose gold with baguette diamonds. And I have been very lucky that I managed to secure this watch, new from. Well, four days ago from. Directly from Patek, from my. From my ad at list price.

And if they made a hundred of those, even if you like the model, you wouldn't want it.

If they made a hundred of these.

And it was 400 grand.

And it was 400 grand, you wouldn't want it. But I never paid 400 grand for it. But that's what. That's what it would cost.

Yeah, but you wouldn't want it.

No, I would, because there's probably more than 100 of these in circulation in the world, I assume. I know Mark Wahlberg's got one, Lionel Messi's got one, but I've never seen one in real life. I've never seen anyone in the UK with one. I'm sure that. I'm sure there are people.

So let's say they made a thousand of them.

If they made a thousand of these and my two of my friends had.

One, you wouldn't want it.

I wouldn't want it.

Even though. So do you love the watch or do you love the fact that you can tell the story?

I love the fact that I've got something that somebody else hasn't got, so. But I also love the watch.

Yeah. And that's very honest, by the way. Most people maybe wouldn't admit that. So does that make you easy to sell to?

It depends. If you've got a rare enough item.

If you've got the item, are you easy to sell to? Yeah, I mean, you. You just want it.

So we talked about earlier about, like, what was the confidence. Funny conversation we had earlier? What was it? We had a few about watches, though. And you said you just. Just worked. If someone said they just work to fund their hot. Their watch habit.

Yes. Kevin o'. Leary.

Yeah.

The only reason he gets rich and works 24, 7, 365 is so he can fund his watch addiction.

So I get that, you know. So your priorities are your kids and your wife, that the kids are in school, they've got clothes, your wife's at home, she's happy, then what else is there left to do? Yeah.

Because you don't need cars. Because we might be watches.

I would be a serial car buyer if. If I wasn't in this business. But this business is like. Is. Is like working in a strip Club.

You know, you've seen it all.

You almost just walk past a naked woman, like she's not there, because you just. It's all day, every day, you know, you just. You don't. You don't appreciate how rare or how beautiful some of these things are because you just see them and in a minute that one's going to go and another one's going to replace it, and that's that.

Yeah.

So the only other thing that a man can really spend money on is a watch. You know, someone said to me the other day, how many watches do you need? My answer was like, eight.

Why do you need eight? Well, you know, not one.

Well, one doesn't cover every base because.

What are the main bases?

So the watch that would cover the base the most, I suppose, would be probably a Rolex Daytona steel. Rolex Daytona, right.

Because it looks sporty and dressy.

Sporty and dressy. But it's not a special watch. So, you know, you come to the point where you look at it and you go, you know, it's nice and it is a lovely watch. I have, I have one. It's a lovely watch, but there's a time and a place for it. It's like cars. How many cars you got?

Seven.

How many cars do you need? Three, I think. More, because you need your family car.

Yeah.

For your wife and your kids and to go out together as a family.

Yeah.

You want your car that gives you a buzz. Yeah.

Aerial Atom.

Right. You need your supercar that you. You drive when you're going out, you and your wife and you go to a nice restaurant. You don't want to take the family car. You're not taking the Atom.

Definitely not. Or the Aventador is too low. So the DBS for that. Probably, yeah. But then I daily that I. I think.

I think you can easily justify five cars. You can justify five cars.

Some people watching this just going to think you're a prick. You need five cars.

No, no. Some people are watching this who thinks that. That what I've said is a very prickish thing to say.

You don't need five cars.

No, but I can justify it. I can justify why I need five.

But you could justify why you need 12 or 100.

Not 100, but I could justify why I need 12.

Yeah. So why do you need eight watches?

Well, they're all for different occasions. And then sometimes when you go somewhere and you think, right, you know, I need to pull out something special, because.

You'Re in that environment.

I'm into that environment. And like owning a supercar or a hypercar. Owning a very rare watch is a talking piece and can open doors to more business and to more avenues.

And that watch, a very special watch, is often quite understated. It's not the blingy special.

Well, there's. There's some. I mean, there's a bit. There's a massive market in vintage watches. Some Pateks you wouldn't look at. You just wouldn't look twice at them.

Yeah.

And there'd be millions of pounds and you would not look at. You wouldn't look twice at it. And then you get these massive. Jacob.

And go, yeah, glass.

I don't even know what it's like holding a vase on your wrist. What's going on. Some guys living in there walking around and, like, got goldfish just floating about.

Yeah.

And they're just hideous, aren't they?

He looks like he's doing well, Jacob.

We just signed the contract with Bugatti supplying all the timepieces in the tourbillon, which is called a tourbillon, you know, so, you know, that's a great. You know, and when you've got a brand behind you like Bugatti, it cements you as a brand, you know, look at Rimac. Yes. He's doing wonders for the new model Bugatti's. And the motors and the electric motors, he's putting into the cars and making them faster and doing. But also he is also running his own company. And someone could say, oh, you know, I don't understand. I've never heard of this company Rimac before. You know, are they reliable? Well, Bugatti back him.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, that's good enough for me, you know, so, you know, that's more and more now mod different makes in clothes, in cars. They're. They're brand collabs. They're doing collabs with each other.

Makes sense.

So many of them. You know, I looked at a pair of trainers the other day. They were these. I wear them in the gym. These on. Yeah. Are they called Ons, like. Oh, and they've got.

Yeah, I don't know. I know what you mean.

They're so comfortable. Honestly, the best. They're. They're. They're the best shoe you'd ever buy. But I picked up a pair the other day and they've collabed with. With Laui. Is it the brand Laui?

Right.

And, you know, new. New Balance have collaborated with Hermes.

Right. Well, the biggest collab was Nike and Michael Jordan.

Yeah, well, Yeah, I care, Jordan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Even with the cars, you know, having a burmester in it, it's a collab really, isn't it between.

And you know, Hermes also do the. Some Bugatti versions and then some Pagani versions.

Yeah.

I mean that's definitely a dick measuring competition. I mean I've got a Chiron but I sent mine to Hermes. Why?

So you wouldn't do that.

It's not like you're getting, you know, half leatherette inside the car. When it comes as a 5 million pound car, do you need the Hermes leather? I could probably justify why you do. Yeah. No one else is going to have it.

You were going to talk about insurance earlier, right?

Insurance. So I had a Land Rover Defender. We've got them as we run for pool cars and company cars and they pick up and deliver cars with the trailer and stuff. Great cars defenders, they break down all the time. But I do love them. One of them had a problem with the engine so we sent it into Land Rover. I'm actually going to name drop everybody here. We sent into Land Rover Derby, which I think are Strat. Stop Stone. If I'm not mistaken, the car was there for like two months but we had a courtesy car. So you know, we're just, we're just moving on with everyday life. Anyway, every other week or every three weeks I'd get somebody or I'd call up and chase them, go, you know, what's going on with this car? It's going to be long. In the meantime, we had some really, really bad weather up in the Midlands and Derby had some really bad floods. Really bad floods. And Strathstone had had their showroom, quite a new showroom, destroyed. Destroyed in the flood. Ridiculous. They never told me the car was involved in the flood. I had to ask them, is my car, if I come down and look at my car today, has it been in the flood? And they went, yes, it has. So why haven't you told me this for the last three months at this point? Anyway, getting back to insurance, we notified our insurance company and said, look, our car has been involved in a. It's a total write off. It was completely submerged in water. It's a total write off. It's been at Strathstone, Land Rover Derby, you know, what did we do? Okay, no problem. We called Derby. Derby's like, inform your insurance company. You can claim through your insurance company. So I said, I don't want to claim through my insurance company, I want to claim through your insurance company. You're the one that wrote it off. I didn't. We just got so many claims. You just, you know, you've got to go. And they pushed the point and really argued the point and a lot of people who didn't argue back would have claimed through their insurance company.

Wow.

I mean my car wasn't the only car that was written off. There was hundreds. Yeah, but. Yeah, and even then it took us six months to get paid by our insurance company on a car that had absolutely nothing to do with us whatsoever.

Yes. I think the insurance. Well, the insurance industry is a for profit corporation.

The best businesses in the world are businesses that everybody has to have. You have to have insurance. Yeah, I, I got declined house insurance the other day by somebody because of my social media profile.

What about it?

Exactly. That's what I said. But the fact that I have a social media. Well, the fact that you're on social media, you're, you're a public figure. Okay.

So they wouldn't give you insurance.

So they wouldn't, they wouldn't insure house do me. House insurance? No.

What because they thought you had a higher risk of.

I, I still don't really know the answer to the question. All my broker came back to me and said was they won't insure you because of your social media profile.

I can only think that's risk.

Maybe so, but I mean there's a lot of people out there that are a lot higher risk than me, I would assume.

Well, it's like banks debanking you because they don't like your political views.

Does that happen?

Yeah, it happened to Nigel Farage. Debanking is a thing. If you post something on social media, let's say you put a strong post about your views on immigration. You could lose your bank accounts, I.

Could lose my business. Yeah. You know, you gotta, you gotta know what to say and what not to say.

And on that note, would you say you're the most hated supercar dealer?

I don't think I'm a hated supercar dealer at all. I think I'm well loved across the nation. I just think that my views on the reality of the business that I am in, people can't concept and they think how does that really happen? Is this guy just talking shit? You know, does this thing, do these things actually happen? If you were in the inner circle like I am and like a lot of my customers are, they see like I'm kind of a whistleblower to an extent. You know, I'm the only person who was really outing People here and saying they're conning people, they're fraudsters. That's a scam, okay? They might not like me for it, but I don't care. You know, I'm doing, I'm doing the, the public of service.

Robin Hood of the car.

Robin Hood of the car game. Exactly.

And are you not scared that that might hurt your business?

Well, I think everyone who knows me or knows our brand, especially who's ever met my dad, knows that we're probably the straightest talking people you will ever meet in this business or in any business. If the sky is blue, it's blue. And if you've got £12 billion, but you want me to say that the sky's pink, it's still blue. And I don't care who you are, it's blue. And that's just what it is. I will. We're not governed by anybody. We're not sanctioned by anybody. We, we have our views, we have our opinions and our views and our opinions are our reality in this business.

And because you're not governed by anyone and because you're not representing a specific supercar brand, does that gives you a license to be a bit more disruptive and to speak?

You know, if someone brings a car out and it's shit car, I'll say it's a shit car. I'll still sell it. If you want it, I'll still sell it. My view is it's a shit car.

But actually your view doesn't really matter if the client thinks it's a good.

Car if he wants it. My view is not going to change his opinion to an extent. Some people who entrust me and who know me to invest in cars will say, carl, what do you think of this car? And I'll say, shit, stay away. And they'll go, okay, no problem. But other people go, you know what, I just want one. Okay, fine. Carl, will I lose any money in this car? Yes, yes, you'll lose loads. Okay. I'm still going to buy it.

Yeah, and you'll probably get it back and sell it again.

It's just business.

Yeah.

I've got no emotional attachment to, to anything material. I have no emotional attachment where, you know, a lot of people be like, oh, you know, let's, let's really represent this brand and represent that brand. You know, I absolutely love Ferrari, but there's, there's things they do that I don't agree with and times they sell cars for too much money. I absolutely love Ferrari, but there's things they do That I don't agree with sometimes. And there's cars they bring out which I don't think are a good car. The 296, for example. What a car to drive insane. But it's an ugly little thing with a V6 engine. Would I buy one? No, definitely not.

What about the new Ferrari?

But they're getting down to the point now where they're 200 grand and I think, oh, value 200 grand. I like that car. 330. I don't like it.

No. And what about the new F80?

That, that's gonna, that's gonna need to severely grow on me because I can't. See, I can't. I don't think it's an attractive car. I don't think it's got a good enough engine that could possibly, you know, conduct the amount of money that it, that it's going to as a price. It's a thick end of a 4 million pound car with a V6 engine. That doesn't look attractive in my opinion and is not that rare. So that's going to take some, that's going to take some growing on me, I think. Eat my words. But I don't think I will.

How much stock have you got value in this sitting here?

Now, Our stock varies, it doesn't vary much. So we've always got low to mid 20s.

Low to mid 20 million.

Yeah, low to mid 20 million.

So you got 20 odd million.

20 odd at all times. Unless, you know, unless something really special would come in and that might be four or five or six million pounds alone.

Right.

Then all of a sudden you go to low 30s rather than mid 20s. But you know, at the minute, you know, without doing an exact calculation, I would say I'm very close to about 23 million.

Okay. How much does it cost to insure 23 million quiz worth of cars?

So our insurance, we have a great insurance company. If there's such thing. If there's such thing. We have a great insurance company. We get them a lot of business because a lot of people do get their pants taken down when it comes to insurance. And we just put them in touch with our broker and say, look, crack on. Yeah, it only helps us with the sale. But our insurance is not just based on insurance. 20. If you had £23 million worth of cars, you would be insuring £23 million worth of cars. We're insuring a business public liability stock. You know, it's, it's all in one. It's all in one. It's one Fee, isn't it?

And how much is that premium?

It's a lot. It's, it's.

Is it tens of thousands?

It's closer to hundreds.

Wow. But necessary.

Can't function without it, you know, can't function without it. But you also, you can never be too safe. You know, we're dealing with machines that have highly flammable materials and liquids in them and the ones that haven't have batteries in them. So, you know, one goes up, there's a chance they're all going to go up. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's, it's high risk, isn't it?

Has any brand, any car brand ever tried to stop you selling their cars or sent you a letter of complaint or anything like that for what you've said?

Me and my dad got escorted off the Ferrari stand at the Geneva Motor Show.

Did you?

Yeah.

Need to hear this one.

They were launching the LaFerrari and Geneva, we've always been guests of a certain brand on the, sort of the trade day in Geneva, representing them, being their guest. And we were on the Ferrari stand. As you can imagine, the Ferrari stand on the launch of the LaFerrari had all Ferrari's top customers that were ordering the car, that were having the car. And then you get two of the most infamous car dealers in the world who not necessarily will go in there trying to poach customers or trying to poach car cars. But it wasn't, I can understand why they done it. It wasn't a good look to have. We made up. We make our living off of you selling it to him and us buying it from him and selling it to him. Yeah, you know, and they were like that, you know, guys, we love you, but you, you, you gotta, you gotta leave. So my dad was like, why? Well, this is why I said, well, he can do what he wants, but I ain't even. And I'm like, oh, here we go. Go.

So they, they carried him off pretty much.

Well, yeah, yeah. You know, politely. Yeah, yeah. He got politely scurfed off the.

Yeah.

But, you know, I get it, I get it. You know, they gotta, they, they. But obviously it's a compliment. And they said, afterwards, guys, it's a compliment. We're looking at you and we, we acknowledge that you are a force. And, you know, we've got people here and you're, you're literally, if you wanted to, you could be offering them double the amount they're paying for this car there and then, and there are clients. So I get it. Yeah, you know, back in the day as well, I'd used to, I'd buy a car that was an over list car, like a car that would make more than the retail price and you'd buy it from somebody who was just purely a speculator. So he, he's ordered a new Lamborghini, Ferrari, whatever it may be. And my transporter would wait in the car park, the guy would get in the car, do the handover, drive the car around the corner, straight into the back of our trailer. I'd pay him and then we'd go. And it got to the point the dealers would call and they'd say, Carl, can you be, just, can be a bit more discreet about it? Like there's a Halfords a mile away. Can you just park in Halfords? Like our bosses are going to kill us.

Don't car brands now ban buyers if they do that?

Yeah, but car brands in a minute are not going to be at the position where, where they can afford to ban buyers to do that. So they need to sell cars.

Right. So they can do it when you've got Covid and oh, when you walked.

Into Land Rover and they looked at you like you're a piece of rubbish. Yeah, like you were buying an Enzo. You want, you wanted a defender and they looked you like, no, no, no need. You need to be vetted to buy a Land Rover.

And now you don't think that's going to happen. It doesn't happen now because they need the business again.

They need to sell the cars. They don't care who the seller. But it's the same in any, any brand. You know, you'll see these memes on Rolex dealers and stuff on Instagram. You know when, when during COVID Oh, I'd really like to buy a, I would like to buy a. Whatever.

Daytona.

Yeah. You see someone like pissing themselves, laughing. No chance.

And now all of a sudden, mafia guys. Yeah, yeah.

Now it's like, hi, Mr. Moore, it's Jeff here from Goldsmiths. Are you still in the market for a Dayton? Oh really? Oh, you know what, Jeff? No, I'm not. So yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's the same. Well, to be fair, what I will say, the only people that have always stuck to that kind of arrogant way throughout good times, bad times, just that is their way is Ferrari. And you've got to respect that.

Yeah, I kind of do in a. Through gritted teeth.

Yeah. No, you've got to. You know that this is us, this is what we do. This is how we're going to treat you. This is how we're going to talk to you. The best is when someone says, I've been invited to do a. I've been invited to Imola with Ferrari to test drive the new. Whatever it may be. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was seven grand. Well, how have you been invited? Haven't been invited to do anything. Like. Like you've.

You've been sold.

You bought three laps around a track and some. A steak. You know you haven't been invited. I don't invite you to my house and then say, rob, that was 40 quid, mate, what you ate there. It's not an invite, is it?

No, but they make you believe it is.

Yeah. Oh, I've been invited. I'm premium. Oh, yeah, sure you are. Okay, mate. They're obviously doing a better job than I am because they're making people feel like they're privileged to part with money. I've got a. I need to explain to people how privileged I am for them to give their business to me and all they're doing is making them feel privileged. Like, you know, we're going to let you pay for this.

Is there any car brand that is just way overpriced right now?

I don't think there's a brand. I think there's models.

Most overpriced model.

Most overpriced model. Retail price.

Yeah.

Pursang. Ferrari. Pursang is the most overpriced.

And that's.

And it says nothing about the car. The car is a great car. It's a fantastic car. I know. It's actually had. Sometimes it's had bad reviews with. I think Richard Hammond gave the car a bad review, said he didn't like it. Take the price away from you and just drive the car. You can't not like it. It's an incredible car, but it's not. I mean, I've sold them at half a million pounds.

Wow.

It's not a half a million. Half a million pounds.

What about the Cullinan? I mean, that's. What are they? 400 grand?

Cullinan is a different audience. A Cullinan is for the audience of people who find it funny that they're going to lose 250,000 in a car.

So they're just doing it for shits and giggles.

Yeah. That's what separates them from them is. I don't.

Super rich from everyone.

I got clients that they have a new Cullinan every year. Every single year they have a New Cullinan and the new model just come out, so. And there's been a big price hike as well. Just new one every year. Why? Because I've always had a new Rolls Royce every year and I will always continue traveling. But the last one, you've done a thousand miles in. I've got a client and he's so funny. He's got the best personality. He's the most down to earth person with a lot of money you've ever met. He's, the guy is a scream. And first time I'd done business with him, I bought a Rolls Royce Phantom off of him. And when I went to his house and see the car, I said, why are you selling it? He said, you know what? He said, it's too big, I can't drive it. I've tried. It's not for me. These cars are just not for me. Okay? Bought the car, he done like 2,000 miles in it. Six months later, he's called me back up. Hi, Carl. Hi. I'm gonna send you some pictures of a car. Let me know if you're interested. Another Phantom. So I'm like, dave, you bought another Phantom? Yeah, mate, I bought another Phantom. They're too big. I, I, I can't drive it. They're too big. I look like an idiot driving the guys. He's like, he's, he's quite a short guy, you know, they're just too big. I can't, I can't drive it, can't park it. I look like a fantasy. I feel like a fool. I don't want to drive it. Robbie's done that five times. Five times with the same car. Phantom, Phantom, Phantom, Phantom. Every time. And the last car I bought from him was a Cullinan and he told me it was too big. And I said, dave, you've done this with four Phantoms and a Cullinan. Okay? Why? And then he said to me, I said, why are you selling the Cullinan for? I thought you'd like it. You can get away with it being big because it's an suv. He's like, because I'm trying to buy this. And it was another Phantom. And I said, are you, are you? Well, is there something wrong with you? So he said, mate, look, listen, I work very hard. I work every hour of the day. And I've always had new Rolls Royces, always. And the minute I don't have a new Rolls Royce, people are going to think I'm skin. Simple as that. And that is what Rolls Royce as a brand Brings to the table. So when you say, do you think a Cullen's overpriced?

No, no, because otherwise those kind of people wouldn't buy it because it'd be too cheap.

If I had the best phone in the world, it would be called the Rolls Royce phone phones. You know, if you had the best knife and fork in the world, they call it the best. It's the Rolls Royce of knife and fork. It's a marketing tool to call something. They should trademark it. They probably have. They should do it. Is the Rolls Royce. If you. If I was. You was describing something to me and it was the best and you didn't know how to do it, I guarantee you would say it's the Rolls Royce of such and such a thing. So that's what Rolls Royce bring.

Yeah.

When you buy these cars, these supercars, these super SUVs, whatever you want to call them, you're not just buying the car. You're not just buying, oh, you know, that car's a thousand horsepower. A lot of the time people don't drive them. They, they purely. It's a statement. It's a statement to say just, I've just bought my. Or it's an accomplishment, you know, it's, it's. I've worked hard this year. I've done really well. I'm going to treat myself to a new Lamborghini. I don't even want one, but I'm going to treat myself to one because I feel like I deserve it for what I've done. We get people like that. You get more people like that than what you get. People who lust after owning and driving the car.

Yeah, Yeah. I can relate to that. With a lot of the cars I've bought, it's been an occasion, a reward.

It's been your 40th birthday to celebrate the sale of a company to celebrate a great year. You know, you, you, you, you.

What else are you going to buy?

What else are you going to buy? Yeah. And I guarantee, you know, when you earn a lot of money, you always keep a little bit to the side for what I call splurting. Right? That's my splurting money. I'm just going to go and buy or do something stupid with that small bit that I've left there, because I would have. I would have done the deal at this price anyway. That's a Brucie bonus. So I'm going to go and just enjoy it. It could be go on a mad holiday, buy a car, buy a watch, you know, it could be Any of those things. And you know when you're doing it at the time that this is stupid, the amount of money that this is, and it's just a complete waste. But if you're celebrating doing what you've done, it's a celebration. It's your beer money, champagne money. Yeah, it's your celebration of money.

Yeah.

And you know, recently, in the last few years with, with, with YouTube influencers, the money that they're earning. Crypto dealers, I don't. Do you call them a crypto dealer or crypto investors?

Yeah, just people who own cryptos.

I mean the, the money.

Another thing, they haven't necessarily really grafted for that money. So easier comes easier.

Yeah, but they've still, they've still their knowledge. You can never take anything away from somebody.

No, I agree. They are how they've got something. But, but people will spend money more frivolously if they didn't really have to graft to earn it. I mean, that's been proven through research.

Yeah.

You know, if you remortgaged a house and got 100 grand out, well, you wouldn't spend that the same way as your 30 years hardened savings. Correct.

100%. But the guy who earn a lot of money in crypto very fast, you can't put it all down to luck. There's an element.

He took the risk when other people wouldn't.

He took a risk when somebody figured it out. You know, he took a risk. He probably, you know, invested way more than what he was comfortable investing doing. So. So the rewards pay off. And I mean it. Hell, some of the money people have earned is absolutely insane.

Do people come here and buy telling you they've made it in crypto?

Yeah, of course they do. Every week.

Right.

And I feel like a massive idiot because I've never been involved with crypto because I'm just an old fashioned businessman where I like to buy something for a pound and try and sell it for £1 5. You know, just, just and do that enough and you know, you'll be okay and just, always take a profit and move on and just, just keep things rolling. And then you look at these people and it's just, it's just a world I don't understand. And I've got so many friends who are saying, carl, just go and do this, just go and do that. Just go and put it in crypto. And I'm like, I just, I can't see it.

Sometimes it's good to stick to what.

You know though, isn't it and I'm a creature of that. I'm a creature of sticking to what I know. I know, I know luxury brands, you know, I can buy and sell luxury brands, low luxury items. I can also. I think I need, and I think I need it to be an item in order to sell it. I'm a good face to face person. I like to be one on one with somebody and look at them in their eye and talk to them. But if I haven't got an actual item to sell them, do you know what I mean? I can't talk them into it. You can't tell anybody that. You guarantee that this is going to go up in value because what you selling it for. But yeah, I mean crypto. These YouTubers, these YouTube influencers, people are making millions of pounds playing a computer game and letting other people watch them play a computer game. And these people are kids, they're earning tens of millions of pounds, like ridiculous. And now they're all boxers. Well, so now, so now they've got their money. I can't understand this. We've both done boxing in our times, right? It's hard. I mean there's not many things in life that are harder. Do you agree?

I agree.

So they've made their money, we've made it. Now we want to work really hard at something that we're not going to really make any money out of initially because only the top influencers are making big money out of box and they are making big money but others are trying and they don't need to do it, but they're doing it and I can't get my head around it, you know. Yeah, I've earned all my money being an influencer. Hi guys. Today we're going to play the new fortnight and you just have a personality and you hit the market at the right time and all of a sudden you have a subscription and people pay you money and now you've got millions. I want to get up at 5:00 in the morning, go jogging now and get my head punched in. Why? I'm earning more money doing something else. Why would you do it? It should be the opposite way around. It should be. I've had to do this for a little bit of money and I've took that money and now I'm investing it somewhere else and then I'm growing. I never had it to start off with and now I've got it and I've got it that way. But they're doing it backwards. Unless you're Jake, Paul and He's just everything he touches by the looks of things. Just it doesn't even turn to gold, it turns to bitcoin.

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Well, compared to the rest of.

The market, which is how you value price.

Exactly. You've got to say Porsche, why They're not expensive.

But you just said they don't really do anything for you.

They don't. But the flagship Porsche Turbo S, the leader of the catalog that a normal person can go and buy is 190 grand. That's the best they got compared to everything else. I've got a Ferrari SUV here for the missus to take the kids to school and that's their entry level. That ain't. That's not their top, their top shelf. It's over twice the price.

But you say Porsche is underpriced, but it's your least favorite of the top four supercar brands.

Yeah. Still doesn't change the market price, how they're representing the market. What you get for your money is, is great. Boring, but it's great. Like it's it's. It's super fast, super reliable, it's cheap. They're not expensive.

No. Do you sell a lot of Porsches compared to the other brands here?

I sell more Ferrari than everything else.

Yeah.

I mean, at the minute, God, we're like a Ferrari dealership. We've got so many Ferraris, it's unreal. But we just. That's just what we do most of. Of recent times. We probably do less with, with Porsche because there's only certain models that fit our criteria of what we, what we buy and sell or what we can actually make money from, you know.

What couldn't you make money?

Well, I can't make money from. I can't pay the, the market price for a Porsche Cayman and sell it at the market price and be able to run a business. Yeah, I, I can't. My overheads are too high.

So you need the top models.

I need the top models, yeah. I need the top models. So, you know, we were looking at all the RS models, apart from Spider rs because they're just. No, they're not. They're for virgins. So then you've got a turbo S, some of the Carrera GTSs, GT3, GT3, RS, GT2, you know, that's it.

I think we've done three of these now, Carl, and we've never talked about Aston Martin. I don't think. No, they don't get a mention at all. We haven't talked about it. We've gone all the way around Ferrari.

Lamborghini, because you only asked me. The top four. Aston Martin are a. They're a Tottenham Hotspur. You know, they're a good team, they look good, they just, you know, the transition they've moved to Mercedes has been a great, a great move. They make great cars. They're massively overpriced new price. But then they become massively underpriced used price. Who would think you can buy a relatively new 20186 liter V12. Absolute monster of a car.

700 horsepower.

700 and odd horsepower for low hundreds. Like. Yeah, it's. But it was 330 new. It's too much money.

Even Aston Martin. I have a DBS.

Yep.

It was 300 odd over list. I paid 130 high 130s for it. Even Aston Martin are telling me about the, you know, the DB, was it 12 and then the. Is it the Vanquish on top and even they're saying too much money, wait three years. Even Aston Martin are telling me that.

I know how of that.

That surely Something is wrong about that.

Well, I don't think we appreciate Aston Martin as much as we should in this country because it's grown and made in this country. Other countries love British British made. You know, they still, they still look at Bentley as British made, even though 95% of it is made in Germany and sent over in an Ikea. Pack a crew and they're just put together.

Yeah.

But Aston Martin is, you know, apart from the engine now, is. Is British made and people love that. British made Americans absolutely love it. You know, Middle east love Aston Martin. They appreciate Aston Martin.

So do you think a lot of overseas people are paying the new price then, and us Brits are buying them half price?

I would, though. I don't know this for sure, but I would bet that used car prices of Aston Martin in the UK are the lowest in the world. Wow. Because it's. We have access to them.

Yeah.

It's not, it's not a delicacy.

No.

You know, it's. Oh, they made up the road, you know, it's.

Yeah, but.

And we expect they feel. When was the last time you, you described something to somebody who was British and described it as, oh, it's British made.

Well, nothing really is anything sold.

Everything. But we still look upon Aston Martin as it's. Yeah. Handmade in England, you know, but that doesn't appeal to us because we're English.

Yeah.

But if you're from the Middle east, you want that, you know, if you're from the States. Cars in the States lack quality. They have no quality amongst their cars. They have big engines, big cars. There's no class, there's no quality.

Yeah.

So when they get an Aston Martin, it's a delicacy. It's like, wow, look at the feel, the leather feel how. But we're used to it. Yeah, we were brought up on that. That's because it's Aston Martin.

Do you sell many Aston Martins?

Yeah, so I don't sell, like, loads. It wouldn't be in our top four brands. But we do sell. I mean, we've got a. We've got an Aston Martin V8 Vantage F1 Edition. We've got an Aston Martin DBS. We've got a 707 DBX. So we've always got a few. We've got an old classic dbs, which is in the same color as the. What was that famous program? Was it the, Was it. Was it the Proclaimers or the TV show the Persuaders.

Right.

Proclaimers are a band.

Yeah. I didn't Want to make you look silly.

But the persuaders, the persuaders, they had this mustard yellow V8DBS Aston Martin. Yeah, we have. We have the same car.

Oh, wow.

So. And you know, upstairs we've got a couple of classic Aston Martins.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, we do enough with them.

Yeah.

It's not on my list of cars I would lust after. No, it's on a list of cars I appreciate the value of.

Yeah.

You know, I look at a dbs.

I think, I mean, they dbs, I mean, name me a car that looks better for under 200 grand. Name me a car with all that power and the sound. Under 200 grand?

Well, an 812 super fast.

They're under 200 grand. Are they dropping, then?

They've dropped, but they're still.

They don't look better. No, they don't look better than dbs.

Nah.

That black DBS you've got in there, that's as stealth as. That is stealthy, to be fair.

The front end of a DBS with no number plate. Have you got number plate on yours?

I have, unfortunately, because I abide. But I feel like.

What happens if it fell off?

Well, yeah, I suppose maybe if you just left the. You, I think you said to me, leave the two screws on. Yeah, it just fell off. It fell off, yeah. It again, without the plate. It looks amazing. Here's the test, I think, of how great a car looks. Men love it and women love it.

You know what?

Women love that. I'm not saying, oh, women love us in, but. Yeah, but like the Aventador or the Revuelto, women don't like those. Men do. Women don't really like Uruses. Men do. Women love the DBs and men love.

The D. Because it's classy, isn't it?

It's curvy.

Yeah, it's classy. But, you know, I'm. I also kind of look for cars. They appeal to me when they. They. When they're really not. People don't like them. You know, I love that Cullinan. It's the most vulgar thing I've ever seen. I think it's amazing. Like, that's right up my street.

So you'd love something even if it looks.

I'm not saying it looks, I'm saying.

No, I know you say that, but you said you like. You love things that other people don't love.

Yeah, so.

So basically, generally, something that other people don't love in a car is probably going to be because it looks a.

Lot of people frown upon Certain cars, like, like an Aventador SV or an SVJ or even an Aventador, you'll get a lot of comments about people going, what a stupid car. Look how, like, look how low it is. And look how, you know, the doors go up and, you know, it's just totally impractical. They are called Porsche owners. So, you know, they're the kind of cars that I love and that's why I really don't like Porsche. I've never heard anyone say, I hate Porsche. Porsche. Apart from me, everyone loves it. It's boring. The gt, imagine being somewhere and then leaving and someone going, hey, a guy was in here a minute ago in the most vulgar thing I've ever seen. Well, they're talking about me, you know.

Why do you need people talking about you?

It's. It creates conversation, it creates something. Oh, yeah. Oh, I know the guy that owns that car. He's supercar dealer. Oh, is he? Yeah, it's his website. Here, look. There you go.

All right, so on that note, you.

Pull a bit of Carrera, the guy don't even know you're there. Don't want to know your name, doesn't want to talk to you. Doesn't, doesn't. Doesn't. Has no interest in you whatsoever. You pull up in a revolt or Cullinan, something like that, people, they look, they think, who, who, who is he? What does he do? Where does he live? Why is he here? You never know who you might talk to.

On that note, what do you think of the Jaguar rebrand?

Oh, my God.

Don't hold back. What do you think?

No, I know I. I can't give my views.

Yes, you can.

No, I can't.

Which can you? Don't you. I mean, you got one Jag here.

I know all it's got to. All it's going to do is the classic Jaguars that I've got, or real Jaguars is going to push the price up because people will remember this incredible car brand with an incredible history before. And you have it, like absolutely destroyed it. Kia Starmer's going to drive a Jag.

Nigel Farage said he will not drive a Jag. He said that that will make the brand go bust 100%.

Well, can it go bust as part of JLR? You know, what they lose in Jaguar, they'll make in Land Rover.

But have they just committed suicide to their brand?

I don't understand. It's kind of like, I just don't. I don't understand. I need someone. I don't get it. I Need someone to explain to me why we've done this.

But you like things that are different and we're talking about it and you like conversation starters.

No, but that's, that's not the conversation I want to be involved in. Definitely not. Definitely not.

So give us some words to describe what you think.

Well, I mean it's just so it's basically I don't care about people's views and opinions. We all have, they're like assholes, everyone's got one and that's just the way it is. But if I was going to say what the biggest problem in the way the world has gone, it would be these, these erratic left winged people who think it's okay for a child to be a cat if it wants to be. They're the same people that are behind the Jaguar rebranding and like I just, I'm just not part of that world.

It's a hundred year old brick car brand.

It's absolutely disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting what they've done with that brand. And, and they're full electric.

I don't know.

I bet they are. They will be obviously, won't they?

Well, yeah, I mean their concepts are. But they brought out that concept in the Barbie pink, didn't they?

I mean, look, if you want to drive a pink car, great. Buy a pink Cullinan, a pink Lamborghini, a pink Ferrari, make a statement. If that's what you want to do, fine. Nothing wrong with the color. Don't care about the color. Yanni, friend of mine just wrapped his revolver in pink for his little girl. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. Yeah, you know, absolutely wonderful. My wife, when we first got married, I bought her a pink Range Rover. It wasn't pink. I wrapped it in matte pink 15 years ago. It's cool. Color's no problem. It's what they're saying is behind the brand and what the brand now represents means. Look at all the racing drivers that have had motorsport success in Jaguars and the great cars. You know, the Steve McQueen used to own Jaguars. The coolest person to ever walk the earth and now look what they've done. Steve McQueen was an alcoholic, drug abuser, serial shagger, the coolest person to ever walk the earth. Movie star, absolute like legend of a person. And probably the most famous car he had was a Jaguar that he made famous. And the XKS, those cars are into the, you know, into 10 million plus and it, and everyone wants to be Steve McQueen. Who's going to drive a Jaguar now and you can't rebrand and change the badge on something, you know, hopefully. Well, not hopefully, but eventually. You know, people say to me all the time, you know, Carl, what's the next, what's the next step in your business? Obviously your dad's getting older. He's so involved in the business still, like really? But obviously he's getting older. My son is coming up and my daughters are getting older. Like, do I want them in the business? Yeah, of course I'd like them in the business. I'd love them to carry on the family business, you know. What will it be called? Well, it will always be called Tom Hartley. Forever. Forever and ever and ever. Because that's the brand name. That's what it is. Coca Cola isn't called Warren Buffett, you know, it's called Coca Cola. You know that brand with the line underneath it underlined as that's how important it is. That will always be, always be this brand. It will never be called Carl Hartley or Hartley's or Hartley and Son. It will just be called Tom Hartley. Even when there won't be a Tom Hartley one day, it will still be called Tom Hartley because it's the respect that you must have for a brand. They've completely disrespected an incredible brand in Jaguar.

What currently is the easiest car to steal.

Well, with prices dropping the way they are, no one really wants to steal cars anymore. I think Land Rover have sorted themselves out.

Really?

Yeah.

Cuz you see, you know the viral video from your dad when we came.

In, I know they, they were, they were doing like 100 a day or something like in a London was, was ridiculous. I'm not a car thief so I can't tell you what the easiest car to steal is. But I know Land Rover were because it was just a fault that they had. But I think they've overcome it now. But they're still probably the hardest car.

To insure because of the theft. Yeah, right.

Yep. I think you could insure a Cullinan for less money. You can insure a revolt a Land Rover for. I think you can insure a Cullinan for less money. You can insure a Range Rover for and it's four times the price.

A Range Rover is more expensive to insure than a four times the price range. Rolls Royce Cullinan. Yep.

A Range Rover cost more.

So I just had to think about that.

A Range Rover costs more to ensure than a Rolls Royce Cullinan which is four times the price and a Lamborghini Revolto. It still did. People are getting quotes in a London in the inside the M25 for 20 grand.

20 grand to ensure a Range Rover.

And the cars are not allowed to be left outside. Well, who has got an inside parking in central London in Chelsea? Who has parking?

And they're not as easy to nick as they were.

And they're not as they must be Land Rover to stop this. Because people weren't buying the cars because they couldn't get insured. It wasn't that they didn't want to buy them, it was the fact that they couldn't buy them because they couldn't get insured. So Land Rover teamed up with an insurance company that was called Land Rover Insurance and even they were refusing to insure certain Land Rovers. You couldn't sport. You couldn't insure a Range Rover Sport SVR through Land Rover. They'd say, no, we don't, we don't.

Do you know what that makes me think of? Porsche won't take Porsche Taycans, will they?

No, but who would?

Well, Porsche because they made them.

But that's why, that's why the, the prices have hemorrhaged to keep. To keep the price up on your brand, you need to buy back your brand. Ferrari have done it for years. They don't do it anymore because they don't need to buy. Sale of return is such a big thing now that they don't need to buy cars back. Ferrari have always reinvested in their product.

But Porsche take back a 911. But they will refuse to take back a Taycan.

Yeah. That's why a brand new take on today costs 140,000 and is worth 65.

I've seen Porsche Taycan Turbo S's in the 50s.

Yeah. So much I'm on about new cars though. I want about like a brand new car today is worth 50% of its value.

You could get.

I wouldn't want it by the way, at 50 of its value, but it would make 50 of its value.

So you'll say. Say that again. So you're saying you can get that new at that price? Yeah. You can buy a 50 discount from list.

Yep.

Well then that says everything about how wrong it is. But they're that low. Almost feel like.

Have you heard what Porsche are doing now as well?

Go on then.

They're. They're electric cars. They're putting engines in them. So they're still going to make the Taycan with an engine.

Isn't that called a Panamera?

Yes, but, but they got a Ste still call it a takeout?

What, because they fucked it so bad?

Well, just because, like, we don't have to go electric anymore. People who think that this is going to happen are deluded. It's not going to happen. We are not going electric.

So we asked at the start of this show, what's the biggest scam in the car industry? Is electric the biggest by far.

The 2030, all new cars have got to be electric was by far in my lifetime, the biggest scam I've seen in the car industry.

Wow. Why?

Just because it's like me saying by 2030, I'm going to be the world's best basketball player. Like it's, it's physically.

And you're not six foot five.

I'm five foot six, you know, and I'm thick. End of 40. Like it's, you know, the infrastructure number one is. Will never be. It won't be there. We'll. We will never see in our lifetime this planet geared up to have everybody in an electric car.

So we've been mugged off on another level then.

Well, if you're a Taycan owner, you have been. Because you bought into it.

Because you've bought into Greta Thunberg. Yeah. The. The story of how it's good for the planet. But also, number one, it's not good.

For the planet, is it?

No.

When you look at how much energy.

Mind how much energy it takes to make.

It's just ridiculous. I mean, it's. By the way, I didn't know this going into the whole world's going to be electric. But all of a sudden you look at things, you go, right, I need to learn about this now. I need to. This is what I'm going to be selling soon. If it's going to be 2030, it's not just around the corner. Then you look and you think, this has got absolutely no sustainability at all whatsoever. This is not going to happen. Not even worried about this.

No.

But then what are you going to do? Are you going to. I'm going to do. I'm going to continue selling V12s and V8s. Exactly what I'm going to do.

And then there was also the having the tax breaks and now they're putting tax on them. So suckered a load of people to buy them in the company.

Yeah. And now. And look, there was. There was a scheme there that did get you off initially and there was a small window of time where you could buy an electric car, run it through your company and sell it for not that big of a loss and your loss was set off against your tax and it worked.

But that was through Covid when car prices were going like that.

Yeah. Now it's completely.

They're so cheap, though. I'm almost thinking of getting a Taycan for a daily not. And to not even have to sell it because people say, don't care. Oh, the life.

We can't be friends if you drive an electric car. That's my policy with me. None of my friends have electric cars.

That's quite judgmental.

No, it's not.

It is.

No, it's not.

So if I got a Jaguar and a take on a new Jaguar with the WOKE branding and a Taycan when we're no longer.

I would abuse you so bad. You wouldn't want to be my friend if you. If you were a sticker and you wanted to grind it out and take the abuse, then.

Then you'd enjoy abusing.

That's fine. I'd want to talk to you. I'd have a bad day. I think I'm going to call Rob up and abuse him for a bit.

But they're so cheap now. Just get it as a run around and then never have to sell it.

Don't care. Don't care.

What do you hate about electric cars so much?

The whole. The whole lifestyle. The whole lifestyle of owning an electric car. Think about it. You wake up in the morning, you unplug your car. God, all of a sudden I'm just like, I'm less of a person already. I've not even started my day yet. I get in my car that has no noise. God's sake. Then I'm monitoring all the time, oh, how much electric do I have left? My God. Then you get to work and you've got your own, like, car parking space for people with electric cars. All of a sudden, you know, people look down on you because you're like, you park over there, we're going to park over here. And then you've got to go and face all your work colleagues in your electric car. You can't do it, mate. Definitely not. I can't. We can't do that.

Okay, I'm sold or unsold.

What about hybrid hybrids? You know, hybrids are a happy medium. I think we're going to have to get used to hybrid where cars are going to be hybrid because that's how.

You increase the performance, I guess.

Yep. That's the only way. I mean, unless you're going to start sticking, you know, V16 engines in cars and, you know, nine liters and which the planet. The rules of the planet is you can't do that anymore.

Yeah.

So the only way you can get the. Because cars now, they're not just a thousand horsepower. There's loads of cars. A thousand horsepower. When I had my Bugatti, I had the only car with a thousand horsepower now. Revolto. Thousand horsepower. SF90, 1,000 horsepower. A 296 is 800 horsepower. It's a V6, you know, so it's a way of getting these 2,000 horsepower cars out there with four motors on each wheel and, you know, getting the performance. So that is what it is, as long as they just prioritize the exhaust.

Sound, which a lot of them haven't.

A lot of them haven't, but they are starting to. Right, a 296 sounds better than an SF90.

Does it? Yeah, yeah. It came out later. Did.

It came out later. SF90 just lacks a bit. I mean, it's not like a. Like a dead quiet car, but it needs a bit more grunt. 296 has got it.

Because I remember back, way back, years ago, I had the 458 and we drove the 488A and it sounded worse. It didn't feel like an upgrade. Yeah.

Because it was turbo. So the power. The power came from the turbos. I like the sound of turbos. You see my.

Yeah, but you can have. My DBS has turbos in the front. 700 horsepower. V12 sounds epic.

Yeah, well, the Pagani had the. You. You very rarely really heard the exhaust. No, the Pagani, you just heard this whining and sucking and blowing of the turbos and.

Yeah, if that's the focus of the sound, a scream almost, isn't it?

I don't care what noise your car makes, it needs to make a noise. You know, it needs to make a noise. And what is worse, by the way, are these people who buy electric cars and pay an extra for there to be a noise that come out of speaker inside the car so people can pretend that their car's making a noise. That's sad. That's. They're. They're deluded people, you know.

So do you most love V12? Is that still your.

Yeah, I do love a V12. Yeah. You know, the. The noise that a V10 would make is probably the best noise.

Is it?

Yeah, yeah. V8 noise is great. But a V10 screams so. So a V8's got a grunt.

Yeah.

V12 has like this quite deep, noted, smooth noise.

Yeah.

You know, it's not aggressive. A V8's aggressive.

Yeah.

V12 isn't aggressive, but a V10 is a screamer.

Yeah.

An absolute screamer. Like it. That thing howls at you.

Yeah.

Carrera gt, one of the best sounding cars in the world ever.

Yeah. And a Porsche.

Which one? The Grow gt.

Yeah, yeah.

But that's when there was a proper Porsche. And it's not a normal Porsche, is it?

Right.

You know, it's a Carrera gt.

Yeah.

People don't. I've never heard anyone describe a Carrera GT as a Porsche Carrera gt.

No, they take the Porsche.

It just. It's a Carrera gt.

It's like gtr. They don't say Nissan gtr. They say GTR because they don't want to admit it's a Nissan.

It. That car is. There's only three cars in the world that I'm scared of that I've driven and that's definitely one of them.

So the Carrera GT. What else?

An F40. An F40. Oh, my God. So it's turbo, you know, twin turbo V8. But when turbos weren't, they weren't at the level of sophistication where they are now.

So you don't know when they're going.

To kick in such thing as a raw turbo. That was an F40.

Yeah.

You don't know when they're going to kick in this. They're so inconsistent. You have the car four or five thousand revs and there's no turbo and then you have the car 2000 revs. When you're going around a corner and all of a sudden the turbo wants to kick in you face in the wrong direction. So that's. And a Cryogti is very, very, very similar to that. And the other one's a P1.

Scary.

Yeah.

Why scary? You'd think it'd have all. All the tech.

I said once I was driving a. I was driving a P1 and I had my guy set up some cameras and it's only me in the car and I'm just trying to create some content. And I was in. I was in a P1, one of the first ones I driven. And that's got a loud turbo noise as well. And I said, oh, my God. I said, this car, this car drives like you've smacked its kids and shagged its wife. And that's what it drives like. Like. It drives like it wants to really hurt you. But that's. That's like the coolest thing in the world.

Yeah.

You know, you drive a Porsche Turbo s or a GT2Rs. And they're so good, you know you're in absolutely no danger in that car. You go around the corner as fast as you want, which is impressive, by the way. Yeah, just don't do it for me.

Yeah, but that you have to handle with care.

Then when you fire out accusations at me like I want to buy a Porsche, take an electric, you can imagine the red mist. That's the three things that you don't like cars at all. If you drive an electric Porsche, you're not a car man. You need a car to get from A to B and you don't understand so you buy that.

Okay, but remember we had a conversation about value and it's linked to price. 20 grand. Would you buy a Porsche Takan?

I wouldn't use a Porsche Takan if you gave it to me. And you know I'm serious. There's doesn't matter.

What about the Audi RS E Tron, the gt?

Same. It's a Takan with an Audi badge. Definitely not.

I think I'm believing you now.

Definitely not.

All right. Have you ever refused a client if you had to blacklist a client, refused to sell cars to anyone?

No. But recently I've got a bit of a history with one client in particular where he's never actually been a client. He's agreed four deals and every time he's took it all the way down the line and then reneged on the deal at the last second. Every time guy's got cars, he is a car client. For some reason I just cannot, I cannot do business with him. Now I'm a very respectful, well mannered person when I'm talking to somebody. I give everyone the time of day. I don't care if you're walking in a tracksuit or a Tom Ford suit, I don't care. It's absolutely irrelevant to me. I can tell if he's genuine or not. The guy's a genuine guy, there's no getting away from that. But I just can't do business with him. And he messaged me the other day, interested in a car that I have. And I was extremely rude to him. Very one, one, one answer words, yes, no, yes, no. And he said, he said, he said he'd give me like a message like, oh, thanks for being, thanks for being so polite, Carl, or something like that. And I said, look, we're not going to do business. I'm not having you waste any more of my time. I will start being polite to you when you start respecting me. I haven't blacklisted him. If he wants to come and buy a car for me, he's more than welcome to. But he won't get any respect from me in the way I speak to him or treat him until he buys a car. And then when he does, he has some making up to do. But he can still buy a car. That's fine. But my time is valuable and he hasn't wasted it once or twice. Four times.

Why did you give him the third and the fourth chance?

Because, look, I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to do business. And if I think you're. You're. I think you're an idiot to blacklist somebody from anything. If you've got a product, how. How foolish are you to pick and choose who you want to sell your product to? I don't care. This isn't about doing business. This is about him disrespecting me. So I am returning the favor. That's all it is. It's not about cars. It's not about business. He would be the only person that I would think. Not that I ever would blacklist anybody, but he would be the only person who is close. You know, he's. He's knocking on the door.

So if he does it once more, that might be it.

No, because I'm not going to put myself in a position where I will care. Hi, Carl. Can I buy this car that you've got? Yes. Is there a deal? No. To you there's a deal. To him there's a deal. To him there's no deal.

No.

Thanks for being so polite. You start showing me respect, I'll show you respect. Simple as that. So, yes, he can buy, but he's not going to get to the point again where he drags me down the line and. And we comes down and we shake hands and we tea and coffee and we do this and we do that, and then he just turns around and goes, oh, you know what, Carl? I got to the point. I sold this guy a car and we celebrated. It was an expensive car. We celebrated. A Bugatti.

Yeah.

We opened a bottle of champagne in his house. We celebrated. The next day he was supposed to come down and bring one of his cars. I was taking three or four cars in parts exchange. Taking him one of his cars that was taking part exchange. And he just called me up and he said, sorry, Carl, I've bought another car elsewhere. And yet he did. He bought another Veyron elsewhere. So I said, what was all that about yesterday? Then I thought, you know what? He is a customer. It maybe just be one of them things, you know, I don't know. But then when that happens another three times, another time, he bought a very rare Ferrari from me, an F12 TDF, and he bought the car. And I said to him on the phone and said, look, you know, we've got some making up to do because of the way you trapped me on the last two deals. Carl, listen, just the circumstances, I promise, mate, you know, you know, blah, blah, blah. I won't do this again. Come to the showroom. Came to the showroom. Carl was like delivery mileage. We agreed a price. I agreed a price with him that I couldn't afford to take just to prove that he wouldn't have the car. So I thought, I will call your bluff and I will see if you are an absolute waste of time. And I said, okay, do you want to have that deal? Yeah, if you want to have that deal. If you come down tomorrow, you can have that deal. I'm thinking, I'm losing a lot of money taking this price. He ain't gonna have it. You come down, guess what? He didn't have it. So I then told him, I said, look, there's the door. See you later. If he wants to come back, he's more than. More than welcome. I'll welcome him with open arms, but it won't be a case of you won't waste my time anymore. I just, you know, it's just disrespectful. I just. I don't. We get. We get a lot of calls of people who are time wasters. And I'm sure it's not just us. I'm sure it's everybody. And sometimes I scratch my head and they send their bank statements to finance companies and they do all this kind of stuff, and they've got absolutely no intention whatsoever buying a car.

How do you spot a time waster?

It's hard sometimes, you know, it's hard. The biggest trait for me to spot a time waster is when someone calls up and goes, oh, hi, you've got an Aston Martin Vanquish there. I'd like to come down, have a test drive. Well, that's. You're a time waster. That's the last thing you ask when you buy a car. I would say, out of 10 cars that we sell, which we will sell 10 cars a week. Out of 10 cars that we sell, no more than two people ask to drive the car, and that's literally the last thing they ask. Okay, Carl, before I give you a deposit for this car, do you mind if we just go up the road in it? Yeah, of course, no problem. They've asked every question beforehand, they've seen the car, they've agreed to buy the car. Just before I do, can we go for a spin? Yeah, of course, no problem. Or I'll even offer. Like the guy that I was told you about recently who bought the orange Lamborghini Serato, he came to buy a Rolls Royce dawn, came here, didn't like the dawn car. I'm going to think about it, I'll go home, I'll speak to you tomorrow. Brought him downstairs where we are now. Had a Lamborghini Serato there. He looked at. That's mad car that is. He said like, what is it? So I told him, I said, that drives incredible, you should drive it. Oh no, no, I don't want to drive it. I want you to drive it. Come out with me, I want you to drive it. We got a mile up the road and he went, I love it. Simple as that. Yeah. So I offer test drives but if someone comes to me and the first thing they say is, I want to test drive you, just this, this guy is, can I come and test drive on Saturday? Ah, okay. Yes, mate. We're just Alton Towers on a Saturday. Anything else you want to test drive? Yeah, you know, but you know, you'd be amazed how. And I scratch my head sometimes because the length some people go to, to pretend that they're buying a car is. I mean, I don't know how much time they have on their hands. Unbelievable how much time they. I'll say to my salesman sometimes or I'll say to me dad and we'll talk about it and I'll go, and I'll go, this man's a complete waste of time. And we're always under the. I've always been brought up that you can never judge a book by its cover ever. So you never know.

Yeah.

And because we sort of play into it a bit that you never know, we would give them more time than most would. Like the story when I sold the 10 year old kid the Lamborghini Urus.

Yeah.

And when they picked it up, the family bought the Chiron the same day.

Yeah.

Like nobody gives that kid the time of day. I do. So we probably get more time wasters than most, but we're just waiting on that one person, that one scenario where someone, you know what, they weren't wasting time, they weren't a time waster. Okay. The Other hundred were, but they weren't.

Yeah. So you've got a bar up there.

Yeah.

So do you ever close deals, having drinks? Have you ever had a bit of a party here? And all of a sudden you sold five fucking cars?

Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So literally, the guy I was just said about the Lamborghini Serato. So, okay, let me. Let me rewind back. This is three weeks ago. Three weeks ago. It was a Saturday. It was a Friday. It was a Friday. And weekends are really busy for us. And I had some clients come in. Rob, our salesman, had some clients come in. There was the classic car show on at the nec, so I had customers that were there and they wanted to call in on the way back just to have a coffee or whatever. So we've had three lots of clients turn up, two lots of existing clients added to them that have turned up just to come for a coffee. So one guy's turned up, he's interested in the Rolls Royce Dawn. Seen the dawn drove it. He's not sure. He doesn't like it. He doesn't know if he likes it. He's not sure. Talking to one of his friends, his friend told me that he's the most impulsive person. Like, he dropped his Range Rover off at Land Rover, walked across to Aston Martin for a coffee and bought a DBS whilst he was there. Like, he's that kind of person. So I'm like, you're right, you're my kind of person. So he's looking at this, but they've come down, there's four of them together. They've come down and they're looking at the car. And I offered him a test drive in the Lamborghini sto. I thought, this guy's come today to buy something. I just need to. He was quite. He was quite. He's a bit introverted. He was just. Didn't really let himself go too much. He was quite conscious of. He was a bit nervous, I think, really. He'd followed us for a long time. He'd seen our old adverts, you know, 20 years ago, and he just. First time here, he was a bit taken back and he didn't know what to do. He's a bit unsure. So I said, look, come up to the bar. I said, let's have a chat, let's go to the bar. I said, do you want a beer or anything? So he said, no, no, no. He said, I'm okay. So his mate said to him, you have a beer, I'm driving. Have a beer. If you want? Okay, no problem. In the meantime, two more clients came that have been to the classic car show. And one guy left me a deposit on a Jaguar E Type that we had or a Porsche 930 Targa that we had two classic cars. He said, carl, I don't know which one I want. So when I come there, can I decide on the day? There's five grand deposit, I'll decide on the day. Okay, no problem. In the meantime, two more customers have just arrived. They've just arrived just to. To come. And they've been to the classic car show. They've said, it's okay for us to come. I know them. Anyway, they've come. The guy who was nervous, he's let his hair down now, bit of music on, had a few beers. The guys from Scotland, they've just flown in, they've done half a bottle of whiskey in 20 minutes. Like, I mean, unbelievable. I've never seen. In the end, I just give him the bottle. I said, lads, I don't know how much to pour you. Like, I'm pouring you a double and you just, you're giving it back to me. So there's the bottle. You just, you two just crack on. These other two guys come, few beers, few ciders. It's now Friday afternoon, it's 5:00'. Clock. This guy in the STO said, Look, Carl, I don't know if I want the dawn. The dawn and the Lamborghini. Lamborghini is twice the price. It's hard. I need four seats. It's got two seats. I've never said, I don't even know what it is, but it, I'll have it. So his mates turned around and they're all having a good time. And he said, thank God for that. He said, you took a long time. He said, I know. He said, I was a bit unsure. He said, look, I didn't want to spoil your day because it's your day today. He said, but Carl, how much is the F8 downstairs? The Ferrari F8, so it says 205. He said, would you do it for 200? So I'd do it for 203. Okay, done. I'll have that as well. The guy who's come and knocking back the whiskey, who's looking at each classic car has gone, I don't know which one to have here. You know that the Jaguar, I've always wanted one, but the Porsche, I can use more. I don't know which one to have. Fuck it, I'll have both. The bar was on wheels I'm telling you, there was 12 people there. Rob had finished work, he was having a drink, I was having a drink. There was eight, nine guys there as well. MUSIC on they're looking at cars. Then his mates called. So FaceTime, he said, oh, I'm interested in the. I'm interested in the Aston Martin they got. He's FaceTime, the thing is a kid car. He's going to call you with a deposit that. We sold nine cars that day. So nine cars that day and at a party and had a great time. Yeah, it was a great time. I mean, there was the inconvenience of like taking payment on card machine and stuff. Do you know what I mean?

First world problems, such so long.

But no, it was a good day. But we have days like that and that's the feel that we give people here. You're not walking. The feel that the guy had when he walked in with the, with the. Who bought the Lamborghini, he, he was a bit taken back by. But when someone follows you for so long, they feel like they know you and then when they meet you, it's kind of like they're a bit taken back, I find. And he was taken back by the whole place and the company and the fact that he's here and he just, he didn't. He just. Not that he needed persuading or pushing into one thing or another. He just needed to relax. And I knew that. Yeah, I know this guy, he needs to just. He needs to relax for a second. He wants to have a good time, he wants to spend some money, he wants to buy a car. But they bought three cars between the four of them. Yeah. It just gives you that feel that, that, that feel of, you know, just, just let your head have a nice time is. I say this all the time. Money's hard enough to earn and sometimes it's not fun. So when you want to spend it, you want to have fun spending it.

And nine cars in one day, what, average 200, 300 grand a car?

Yeah.

I mean, that's a 2, 3 million pound day. Yeah. Is that the most cars you've sold in a day? Nine?

No.

How many have you sold in a day?

14.

14. Average price.

So seven to one person.

Seven to one person.

He came to buy a Jaguar E type that was 120 grand. He bought an F40, an Enzo. I can't remember what the cars he bought, but what I'm saying is he came to buy 130 grand car and he walked away, spent about 5 million quid and by the way, at the time, an F14 and Enzo weren't like, a lot of money. And Enzo was just over a million.

Yeah.

And F40 was about half a million.

Wow. Did you know he had that kind of money?

No, not at all. No. No, not at all.

Do you ever still get surprised? Someone comes and they just chuck the money out and you just didn't know where that came from?

No, not at all. Never judge a book by its cover. And the people with the most money are those unassuming people.

Yeah.

I. I get more skeptical of someone who walks in with their Dolce and Cabana suit on and their shiny shoes and their shirt done up like they're going to the Oscars for the day, rather than someone who, you know, just walks in just, you know, dressed casual. Yeah. For them, it's another day.

Yeah.

On my way back, I might just go and spend a million quid on a car. They're the people with the most money. Yeah. The people who come like, oh, today I'm getting dressed up. This is once in a lifetime, you know, or I need to. I need to look like.

Impress.

I need to look like I can afford this car. You don't need to look like you can afford a car. You either can or you can't. And if you can, you won't spend money in a better place than here. You won't have more fun doing it anywhere else if you can't. Don't waste my time, because there's somebody out there who can that I'm not seeing. Because I've given my time to you.

Yeah. And so 14 cars in one day. Rough value of all those cars.

Rough value now. I mean, it was the best day he's ever had in his life. Every car he bought is absolutely rocketed.

Right.

Absolutely rocketed, you know? Yeah. And I think he's still got most of them right. Testarossa F40, Enzo E type. Porsche 356 Speedster. Coming back to me now, I think he bought one or two modern things that wouldn't have been great investments, but, you know, the Enzo paid for all the loss in everything else, you know, plus the F40, plus, you know, everything else. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, you get. You get. They're good days. Not every day is a good day, you know, but you get good days.

Yeah. What's a secret you've never shared or a story you've never told?

Well, there was a story a minute ago that my valeta said to you about when we were in a Serious altercation that time. But you know what? I can barely even really remember that story. It just must be a common thing with me. Yeah. I was saying to him, I can't remember that, but I can vaguely remember, but a story that I've never told. A story that I've never told. A lot of stories. You catch me at a wrong time now. We've done so many podcasts. You know all my secrets.

I don't. You've still got more in the locker.

Yeah, but there's always. There's. There's the stories, but there's. You know. You want a good one, don't you? You want a good one. A story that I've never told. Rob, I think you know everything. I think you know everything.

No, I don't.

I think you do. You've. You've. You've seen my antics in Hermes. You see my story when I got pulled over in the Bugatti. You've seen my wing mirror in the Bugatti. The story where I got Horatio Pagani to sign my Huayra. Have I told you that? Yeah. Pulled out. Pulled in at. What was the shop I pulled in on. On the way home Bargains to buy a gold Sharpie. Yeah, Home Bargains. Got out the. Got out the Pagani. I was like, it's Johnny J. Sharpies. Yeah, we do, actually.

Yeah. And you. You became a meme, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah, I became a meme. Yeah. That was. That was funny.

Actually.

I. I recently done a golf thing. So two of my friends. One is a. An ex world champion boxer, and the other one is a very successful musician. Rudimental and Tony Bellew, we recently done. They have this golf. Golf channel on YouTube. Lock and tea is called. They're a scream. Them too, when you get them together. They're chalk and cheese, but they're an absolute scream. And I was introduced to Lockie about 12 months ago, and it wasn't until later on he said to me, he said, fuck me. He said, I know where I've seen you before. He said, when. When we first met, I thought, I know you. I don't know where I know you from. He got it up on his phone. He went, that's you, isn't it? And it was the. It was the meme of me in the Bugatti. I said, yeah, yeah, that's me. He says. He said, I sent that everywhere. So, yeah, that was a. That was a.

Tell that one one more time.

Oh, when. When I got pulled over in the Veyron.

Yeah.

So the first day. First day I bought it wasn't the first day I bought it. I bought it in Vienna, drove it to Munich, got it shipped back. It's been serviced. I've had it for three months at this point. It's in London, but I've never driven it. Picked it up from Hro and Service, me and my wife and we're driving into London like it's. It's like the first day you've bought it, you know, so it's a special kind of day, you know, Buzzing. So drove from North London, Acton, into driving into Knightsbridge, Hyde Park Corner. Just.

Just a traffic jam.

Anyway, police sirens going mad, so I'm not taking any notice because we're all in traffic. So is it an ambulance? Is it the police? You know, we don't know. Whatever police got behind me. Everyone's moving out the way. I've moved out the way and he's moved behind me. Pull over. Pull over. Like, get. Okay, no problem. So followed him, got off of Hyde Park Corner, parked on the left. So my wife's going, what have you done now? So I don't know. I don't think I've done anything. So. But it pissed me off because I didn't do anything. Like, normally I'd be doing something, but this time I wasn't doing anything. So I was being. I was being a prick. Because when I'm right, I'm right, and when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And I'm the first to say when I'm wrong. And I will apologize to the cows. Come home. I'm sorry, sir. Yes, sir. No, sir, three bags full, sir. But when I'm right, fuck you, I'm right. I've done nothing. So the guys come to the window, knocked on the window. He said, do you know why I've pulled you over? And I said, yeah, because I let you. But the. I never told this story. What happened was a Veyron has been pulled over on Hyde Park Corner by two police cars. And the car spotters are going berserk. Like, they're coming. They're like rats. They're coming out of every nook and cranny they can possibly. And I'm surrounded by hundreds of people. And somebody overheard it. And when I said it, my wife was like. And someone overheard it. And then later on that day, somebody posted it. And that just went. I can't even. Whoever the first person was that has been reposted millions of times, millions of times. But I knew it wasn't wrong. And then I said to the guy, look, I'm under arrest. No. Okay, well, I'm going to Harrods so we can continue this conversation in Harrods if you want, but that's where I'm going. So you can't leave.

Okay.

Just left.

And he didn't follow you?

Didn't follow me.

Just let you go?

I've never done anything.

So do you think he just wanted to look at the car?

I think because this was in. This was in 2016, probably. So in 2016, I looked a lot younger than I do now. And you probably thought, there is a child driving a Bugatti. I need to figure out what's going on here. And then he had my license, he had my registration documents, he had my insurance documents. What else can I provide you apart from a blood sample? You know, what do you want? And. And I bet I was at the side of the road for an hour until I just got to the point where I was like, no, you're not spoiling my day. I'm going. We can continue this in Harrods if you want. I'm going to Harrods. I got in the car and drove off and, like, my wife was like, oh, my God, are we going to take a police chase now? I'm like, no, no, no. I'm looking in the mirror like, no, no, it's fine. He said it's okay to leave. So, yeah, yeah, that was. That was. But it just shows, you know, how. How something as unplanned, you couldn't recreate that. You know, something unplanned could just split second and it could. It could just explode.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

It still goes around Facebook now, eight years ago.

Well, I think a lot of people. I thought it was a chase, you know, the way.

Yeah, yeah. Well, the angle that the picture was taken, you can't see that it's just outside of a traffic jam.

Yeah.

You know, at Hyde Park Corner is sort of took. There's no cars in front, there's no cars behind, but there is. There's a Bugatti, there's me, there's Carl's on the number plate. So when it says Carl says, people know. And there's. There's the police officer. But it looks like. I mean, me and the police officer are talking, but we're not. You can tell we're having not the most friendly chat in the world. You know, I'm sort of pointing and he's sort of pointing and we're both pointing at each other. So. Yeah, it was a good picture, actually.

Yeah, it was great.

It was a good picture. If I could get that. If anyone's got that in high resolution, I would like to frame.

You need to get it put up here.

Yeah, Yeah, I think it was. It was. It was good.

Yeah. So I think this must be the third time I've been there. I always enjoy coming here.

I always love you coming here.

You're always really hospitable. We hang out before, after. You're always so kind with your time. Thank you very much, Carl.

Thank you. Good to see you. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. More.