From Plumber to Millionaire: Why Charlie Mullins Abandoned Labour Britain

Perhaps London's most notorious businessman has just slammed the UK government and Labour so much so he's left the UK for good. This episode is wild. In fact, this entrepreneur calls Labour crooks in free suits. Charlie Mullins has been an entrepreneur in the UK for 50 years. He's paid a hundred million pounds in tax and still exiled and he exposes everything in this exclusive episode and trigger warning many people will see his views on immigration, work from home and benefits as extreme. This is as wild as his haircut. Charlie, is it true you've left the uk?

That's true, Rob. I left when Labour got in and that's what I said I would do and that's what I've done. So I've moved to Spain, Marbella, that's my main residence now. But obviously we where we are today, we fix offices. We planned this new company probably two years ago.

Weren't you in a non compete though then?

Yes, we had a three year non complete which, which ended September 9th and we've been preparing a new company we fix and we launched it on October 1st. So I'm not on the payroll, I'm the chairman of the company and it's very much a family business and you know, I think there's a big market there for a real top elite service company. Again, you know, we sold the old one three years ago and how much for? How much for? Yeah. 140 odd, Neil. 47. I don't know, I can't still counting it.

So you plot, you were, you stated if labor are in, I am out and you planned it.

Exactly.

Why?

Why?

Yeah.

Are you not serious either? Why?

Well, I'm asking you why? I mean I can get you why.

Well, they're very anti business, they're very much into unions, they're very much into strikes, they're very much into giving people money that don't work and I'm totally against all them things.

Right.

They're very much into basically looking after people that don't contribute anything to our economy and I'm totally against that. So I knew what it was going to be. It's typical labor if I'm being honest. I think the last 104 months now has been 10 times worse than what I was expecting. And if I'd known Labour was going to get in when we started planning this company, which was probably 18 months ago and you know, never even give it a thought labor would ever get back in, I would not have started a new company, I would have started in Dubai.

Wow.

Because they're that anti business. And you know, I'm not being clever, but I could see what was going to happen. Everything would be going up and that's exactly what they've done. I mean, I'm not talking after the event, I said all this before the event. And you know, they make out they're just eating these so called rich people. Why don't they just call them, you know, entrepreneurs, business people, people that create wealth, people that train people, people that give people jobs. They don't want to call them that, they want to call them the so called rich as if it's a terrible thing. They despise rich people. They despise anybody that's prepared to work and better their life and better other people's.

Well, I find it funny because I actually think they love rich people, really rich mega corporations and billionaires because they don't seem to tax them very much and they seem to fund their campaigns and their, their glasses and their suits and their wife's dresses and clothes. So I actually think they're not going for the mega rich, they're going for the startup entrepreneur, the small business owner, you know, who creates all the economy, creates all the jobs. 55% of the entire economy. Small businesses, you know, they're little coffee shops, of course, they're little one man bands.

They're ruthless. They're ruthless. And they're robbing people. They're robbing people and they said they wouldn't really be taking money off the working class or the working. But you know, they've hit the pensioners, they're hitting everybody for a tax increase, national insurance increase. They think they're being clever by knocking. What is it? Is it a penny off a pint or something? Penny off a pint. So if someone drinks 20 pints a week, it saves 20 pence. Right. I mean they're having a laugh, aren't they? Yeah. And I don't even think the reduction on the beer will get to the customer because obviously the brewery are going to have to up their cost of the beer. Yeah.

Because minimum wage went up.

There you go.

So all their staff have got increased costs.

And the other thing is, I said it when, when they've done it, labor, they've, they've put so many youngsters out of work and they've killed so many people's career now with all this, I'm all for minimum wage going up, don't get me wrong, great idea. But you know, you can't expect the, the employer to pay his staff more and then you Take and the government take more off of him. What's it? Capital Gains Corporation, all the bits, you know what I mean? And so they just, this is everybody. There ain't nobody in the UK who will be better off with labor's policies as far as working goes and the working right nonsense. You can have a, a guy here, a woman and after one day or same day he's got equivalent to two years rights as if he's been in a two year contract. That makes it very hard. Who are you going to employ now? You, you have to be fussy anyhow and you know, to the fear that if you get rid of them, they don't stack up, they're going to come straight in with unfair dismissal nonsense and they've just absolutely ruined businesses and ruin people's career. There's famous hairdressers I know Stephen Karras, he actually cuts Rod Stewart's hair. I know you think, why should I say that? But it cuts mine. And he said to me, he said, you know, I'm not taking on any apprentices now or any youngsters. Why is that then, Stephen? And imagine it's a. He's got a few branches, always got youngsters there, training them. And he said, well, the problem I got now when I would train them, my idea was I may be able to offer him a job, you know, great, he said, but now I know I can't offer him a job, he said, because one is the minimum wage has gone up, he said, and the fact that they've got this workers rights nonsense, he said that would frighten me, he said, because youngsters move around a lot when they're first kick off, as we know, you know, I want to go, he said, and they've only got to play the unfair dismissal card. And I said to him, as you know, it's only. He said, she said, but as he knows, and I know you, in tribunals, you're, you're one nil down against the employee already because it's loaded basically. And he like, you know, and I said to him, well, we're going to be extra careful who we employ or who we work with. My strong point, you know, I love having apprentices and you know, that's where I come from, apprenticeship. So we're still going to do it. And I've got to be honest, if they don't stack up, they go in here. Do you know what I mean? And if that means we go tribunal, I go tribunal. But you know, we do it the right way. I mean, you know, as you know, Rob, that, employers don't get rid of people, they don't want to get rid of them. It costs you money.

Yeah. So you have to pay big recruitment fees to replace and get six months training.

Yeah. I mean, but you've got all these busy bodies in labor going who've never run a business. Oh, there you go, there you go. I mean, you're better at this than me. No, you are.

Well, I've got 100 staff, I run a business, I know what it's like.

There you go. So. And as you know, the, the National Insurance, I. It could cost you a thousand pound a person if they're on about 35 grand. Like the min. Basic ways you've got under people which cost you underground. Yeah, yeah. So where do you find that underground? From knowing that other costs have gone up, you know, like getting from A to B and, and, you know, training people and, you know, how careful you got to be now and, you know, all the wrongs and rights, what you've got to do with these people. I'm all for fairness in the workplace, you know, Totally. And, and I don't expect anything from anybody that works for me that isn't how it should be. But I, I don't want them to expect anything off of me that shouldn't be. In other words, you know, let's, let's play it how it should be. But, you know, it's all. It's loaded, you know what I mean? It's loaded for the employee and not all the employees take advantage of that. But there's a lot of people out there that are just piss takers and we all know it, you know, but as soon as you say it, you got all the busy bodies coming on to you. Oh, you can't say this, you can't say that. But yes, I can say, and I will say it. And if that means, well, they can do whatever they want them, because, you know, I, I don't live here, I'm not a taxpayer, so there's not much you can do to me. But unfortunately, he's destroying businesses.

Yeah. Every year since lockdown, twice the number of millionaires each year have left the uk. You must have friends, lots of friends, who are business owners. Are they all saying the same thing? Get out of it.

Of course they are. Look, the clever ones spotted it six months ago before. Sorry, six months before the budget, six months before the election, and I had people telling me they moved their money out and I'm like, really? What's going on? You know, I mean I didn't get it if I'm being honest. And because they said the panda dropped and I think just a few weeks ago, biggest drop in 14 years. Yeah. And they told me exactly what I said. The clever people have moved their money out and then I know billionaires that are left here, millionaires, I know decent business people that are left and I know people that, you know, just go to work, earn a good living, 50 grand or whatever and they've also moved out. So where is their sense knowing that, you know, you've got rid of people that are contributing and, and they're bringing in people that ain't and you've got labor saying they're not leaving the country. It's, I'll tell you what, he's a liar and he should say that on oath.

Like what should Starmer say on earth?

Well Starmer's saying that you know, people are not leaving. It's all exaggerated. He's talking shit. I mean I know of people and.

Everyone I speak to is talking about.

I mean I've got fairly normal people, you know, normal working people are saying I wish we could do what you've done. We couldn't afford to go and after you say something, you've got to make the move, you've got to make the move. And a lot of people are saying to me, you know, they want to go in six months a year, you know, they're not going to be able to stand for labor for another four years. So. But, and again Starmer says he believes that the UK is a good place to do business. I mean the guy's not normal, he's not normal. I mean, yes, we know they've got no business background. Nobody in the cabinet has ever run their own business or either work for charities, non profitable or civil service or generally like busy bodies doing nothing. You know, I mean they've never, they've never had the experience of running a business because if they had they would not do what they've done with the workers rights and they would not do what they've done with the increases. Anybody knows that you've got incentivized people but what they've done is they're penalizing the successful people.

What, why do you think Labour don't get this?

What a typical. Well I call them for socialists and they typical that they don't want no one to get on, they want to control you. And, and yeah, why do I think? Well first of all I think it's because they're, they're idiots. And they don't understand business and they want to control everybody. You know all this strike nonsense. I mean unions, I mean you know I can't stand unions and the reason I can't stand them because all the union wants you to do is strike. Know that's not the way to resolve anything. That's, that's non productive and you know they're well in with the unions and I think the unions is their biggest individual donator and it all about 150mil they've had off them. So they're in bed with them. And all that's going to be a strike, strike more money and it's just not the way to run business. You know it's, it's, you know unions are okay if you've got a terrible boss or a terrible company but most businesses run, run it the best way they can so that everybody's happy. But you know, yes, you've got a few people pay less than minimum wage and you've got a few people that I don't know, maybe, maybe difficult bosses. But most businesses I know, they want it to work with your person. You know what I mean? I mean I've had people work for me and probably on a personal basis. They're not my cup of tea but I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in can they do the job and are they productive. But, but you know, they, the labour just come up with this nonsense that you know, you're getting onto your staff. Why would you, why would you get onto your staff? I mean, you know, if someone ain't right for me, they're gone. We took on a, some guy the other week, Carpenter. I think he come from the ex company and he's gone within a week, boom, got rid of him and, and I, I'm not even there. I don't need to do it. They all know how we work here and someone just said me today, oh, I think the guy's putting a bit of around because we him off. And I said good, good move. You know what I mean? You know. Can I ask you a question? Of course you can.

Yeah.

And I, I don't think you're going to get the answer right but no, you might do 100 people. When's the best time to sack someone?

Oh, the best time.

If you think about it too much you're going to be wrong.

Okay. Yeah, but I like to think about answers. Well definitely, I think the best time to sack someone is probably five months and 29 days in.

Right. I've Got to say your first answer. Do you remember I just said to you, if you think about it, you'll get it wrong?

Yeah.

The best time to sack somebody is when you first think about getting rid of them.

Right.

So, you know, like you, you looked at it to five months, three months, give a trial.

Yeah. Just before probation, basically.

Yeah, but, but basically the best time to sack someone is when you first think about it. So you've got someone in there and normally the first day or the week is not right. Right. And what, what companies are used to doing is giving them a longer period, giving them that and that, and you'll find that.

But your recruitment's got to be really good, hasn't it? Your onboarding and training's got to be really.

That's got to be good. But that's, that's not what we're talking about. What I'm saying is that if you keep people on that you don't think stack up, 9 out of 10 will not work out and it will cost you money. So why would you bet on a nine to one against you? So I've learned, even if the recruitment.

Market'S not very good and you haven't.

Recruit Marty, I mean, one wrong person can destroy your company. They're troublemakers anyhow. I learned that years ago. Get rid of them as soon as possible. And people say to me, but you've got to give people a trial. You go, yeah, I've done that for years, you know, and I've had. People kept them because, you know, their mum's not well and they're having another baby and they're moving and all their personal things, but overall, it does not work out, you know. Yes, you know, you're not going to get rid of someone because, you know, they've drunk an extra cup of tea, but if it's not stacking up, you tell them that, look, he's saying air. It's got to be, it needs to change. And if it doesn't change immediately, yeah, you get rid of them.

But would that usually be on their technical ability or on their attitude?

Whatever it be, it can be, it can be the. They're just not like. It could be that they're just miserable in the workplace and giving off a bad feeling. It could even be like, I have to be honest, I stink a bo. You know what I mean? No, I'm being honest with you because. No, I weren't suggesting that. I was just saying to you that, you know, yes, you can tell them and nobody wants to tell them. Yeah, but, you know, we. People do now we have HR people and they just. You can have a word, you know, you know, we're all working very close and can we all be a little bit more hygienic? You know, tell everyone. But if they don't change, they've got to go because it's disruptive, it's uncomfortable and it makes people not want to be in the workplace. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not being petty, I'm not being petty. You tell them. But you can tell with people if they're going to stack up, like. Unfortunately, a lot of these waste of time. People are very good at interviews. You know, they've got it off to a T. Yeah.

They've used AI Chat, GPT, they've gone on Google, they've practiced all their answers. I meet so many people. They should actually be professional interviewers because they're great at that.

And then they know exactly what they're saying. Where I used to always get them at, it was like we'd have our reception every full of clients, like famous clients and reviews and newspaper cuttings and we used to have a camera up in the. In there and they look upstairs for you, interview him and you watch his body language. If he's slumming about or on the phone or having a fag, you know, you smoke them and don't move out of the chair, then he ain't right. Yeah. But if you get someone in there and he's smart, he's looking around and all that, and then what you should say to him is like, you know, why do you want to join our company? And often they ain't got a clue.

They haven't done any reason, you know what they.

They like, oh, well, Mum said that it's good company. Or my granddad was a plumber and I thought, you know, and my dad said I should try that and. Or me mate does it. And, you know, it says that he never does all there, like, and all this. So, yeah, somebody that stacks up, looks into. I know. Well, everyone, if you're gonna go on holiday or you're gonna stay in an hotel, you're going to work for someone, you want to find out about them, didn't you? Yeah, but people that come in, they go, oh, yeah, no, to be honest, I don't really want to be here, but my mum said I've got to get a job, you know, and this, this ain't kids. I'm talking about talking about older people. And another bad giveaway, this is for me in Here.

Yeah.

If somebody applies to work for you and it's not the person, we don't even interview them. Right. Because they, you know, because someone's trying.

To get him a job.

Oh yeah, there you go. It's like my mum's, you know, and, and you know, for me it's the most off putting thing. Like, you know, and then they, they say to you, I'm his girlfriend, like, but he's busy or I'm his girlfriend, he don't like talking on the phone. And you know, you don't even bother to meet them people because when they walk in they're stuttering and spluttering and they're like, you know, I mean, look, look like a proper oddball. But for me that's a great tip to a business. Yeah. If someone applies on their behalf, then don't even bother to interview them. Yeah. You know, because, because know, you got, you got to be grown up, you got to be ready to go in the workplace. And, and you hear people say, well, he ain't been to work for 10 years. You know, it's the last thing you should be telling me, is it? You know, I mean, we ain't been at work for 10 years, then there's got to be a reason, is it? But they go, oh yeah, he's so unlucky. Like, you know what I mean? He like, you know, he loses this and you know, he drinks too much. But they're telling you that like, and all that. And when, when I don't deal with recruitment now, but that's their policy and I say to, if I do talk to anybody and I just, well, I don't even bother to tell them they need to apply. Okay, so. Well, you're not very good at writing. Okay. It's not, it's not an exam, you know what I mean? It's like name, address, what you do. And, but anyhow, I just think, I feel that's a very good policy to follow and the same as get rid of people as soon as you think about it.

So listen to what you're saying. You've got labor on the one hand that want to make it as hard as possible for the employer and as easy as possible for the employee and basically force the employer to hire not very good people and then you're stuck with them. You on the other hand are going, if they're no good within a week, get rid of them or in a day.

Yeah.

So imagine if we did the opposite of what labor wanted where it was easier for employers to look, let staff go. Maybe then employers would have to get better. Maybe then they'd take chances.

Yeah, of course you would.

You'd have to get better, you'd be more competitive, you'd skill yourself up. Yeah, quality of work and labour would go up, quality of wages would go up. And also one more thing, and it's important to say I would never get rid of a good staff member and I bet you never would either. I beg them to stay.

That's right, that's exactly it. That's.

Why did labor not get this?

Because they're Labour. Well, I mean, because, you know, they're idiots, I have to be honest. And they're not in the real world and they've never run their own business and you know, it's like Mummy and daddy's money and. Yeah, I mean, look at Kia Sama. Obviously I'm not going to be personal with him and I'm not, I'm not trying to make him look stupid. He's doing a good job of that himself. No, I'm being honest and I called him right. You know, when Labour got in and hearing what's going on. They're crooks in suits and I apologize for saying that. I realize now they're crooks in free.

Suits paid for by billionaires.

Well, there you go, there you go.

Two and a half thousand pound glasses.

Yeah, there you go. I mean, they're crooks. They're crooks. Crooks in free suits.

One thing I do have to say, because I am way more right than left and more capitalist than socialists, I have to say that. But don't you think though that conservatives royally fucked it up for 14 years?

Yeah, totally agree.

So in a way they've come in, they've not even had a chance to do anything yet.

Well, they've had four months.

Yeah. And they did do a budget, you.

Know, remember what I said, that if they don't stack up, get rid of them.

But you can't get rid of them like no political party in a week, can you?

No. Well, I'm just trying to say to you, my policy is they go, if they don't stack up, they don't.

And so should Conservatives have gone before the 14?

And I agree with you, it went terribly wrong under the Conservatives power. Yeah, you know, they, they lost, lost it sort of, you know, they just, you know, they lost their way a bit, I think probably got too comfortable. So I'm not sitting here blaming labor, but anything that happens from now on, labor is. They're the ones that's supposed to be driving the car at the moment, they've got no steering wheel, the wheels are off and there's going to be a crash. And when I say it, people like, what the fuck does he know?

You know, well, you built 150 million pound business.

Yeah, there you go. And I think we trained over 1200 youngsters.

Wow.

Apprentices we've employed.

So you've given 1200 young people a job and trained them up when they otherwise wouldn't have had a job.

And you know, we've employed thousands of people over the years. When we sold up, we turned over 50mil at about 450 people working for us. And, and I would say most of the people that work with us, if not all of them done very well out of it. You know, we pay well, we look after them. You know, it's a two way street business. Yeah, you know, it's a two way street. But at the moment you've now got the employee got more.

Too much power.

Yeah, well, that's it. They're running the show. It's like tail wagging the dog.

Yeah.

And the amount of people business I've spoke to now, that will not employ anybody or they're gonna, they just want.

To use AI, want to employ a lot less people.

Honestly, talk about destroyed it. I mean, you know, I've always said that, you know, for a youngster and you, you know this, you know, once you've got a job, that's when you grow up, that's when you become part of society, that's when you start contributing and you get something out of it. And if a youngster ain't got a job, you know, it's, it's like, well, no job, no future. I have to be honest with you. And you know, you've got to encourage youngsters into the workplace, but once they get that job and then, you know, then they'll encourage people in. But these, these people, honestly, they've killed it for the youngsters, Absolutely destroyed it. And this working from home nonsense, I mean, come on, I mean, you know.

Staff have even said to me, we don't do work from home. No, we just don't do it. And we get some pushback from that. Staff have literally said to me, rob, I want to go down to three days a week, work from home because you want to be able to take my kid to school and take my dog for a walk. They haven't said to me, oh, Rob, I want to work three days from a week from home because I could Be more productive for the business and make the business and me more money.

Of course, Rob, honestly, look, as you say, from day one, I said what would happen work from home. And what will happen eventually is obviously them jobs are going to go abroad. Let's not kid anybody, you know what I mean? And you know the piss take that's working from home. But I've never met a working from home yet that doesn't think is more productive. They all go home.

Yeah, because they all do.

Yeah. Oh yeah, of course, sure. I mean, you know, and, and when they do these surveys and they're all more productive and I say to, to the people who, who carry out a survey, well, what do you think they're going to say? You're their boss. And I'm saying to you over there, are you more productive? Oh, yeah. I don't stop like, you know what I mean? You know, I might have my pajamas on and I might be in bed and half asleep and you know, doing a bit of cooking and catching the kids. And all of them say it's a better work life balance. And I ain't saying it ain't right, I'm not saying it ain't. But we're not talking about work life balance. We're talking about is it better for the business or not. And I say for majority of businesses it's not better. Of course some people it works perfect for the business. But all these busy bodies that say is much better and they get more out of me and they go, you know, I'll get like five days work done in three days. Okay, well you never had five days work in the first place. Your boss has been overpaying you. You need to refund him the money. Well, it's simple, isn't it? I mean, these pests that come up with, I want to do four days work, I want five days money, but I can get five days work done in four days. Okay, well you've not been given enough work then, have you? Yeah, you know, you know, go all about this nonsense. Well, you know, I ain't got to travel in, it don't cost me. You're right, you ain't got to travel in, you know, but, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about, you know, what's best for the business is what we should be talking about. And you know, if you do what's best for the employee, well, maybe he works a couple of hours in the afternoon as a sleep and you know, don't call him on Mondays, Fridays and Wednesdays or something, you know what I mean? It's, you know, I believe in being fair but you cannot have tail wagging the dock. I'm so anti working from home and the stick I get off of people, you know, but you know, people come to me, oh, we're more productive. Okay, how many people you employ? Well, two part time people and you know, I mean mum does a bit. It's not a fucking business then, is it? You know, I mean a proper business, you know, company, the word company, I mean surely it gives them a clue. Company means company. Getting together, amalgamating, learning off of people, helping others out with it, being able to do the job you're there for. But you know, you ring up some of these people. Now I will not do business with anyone that works from home. Like as far as I won't buy nothing off them, I won't use their services.

Also how people are going to get pay rises if they're not even seen. You miss all the conversations, you miss all the lessons. You know, a lot of what you figure out in business is walking around. I saw you coming. So you get out, you talk to one of guys, one of your guys there you looked up, you're obviously fix that sort that problem solution, talking to all the people, you can't do that from home. So how are you going to get a pay rise?

Well, they're bluffed their way because a lot, I'll tell you what really beyond the working from home, from a boss's point of view, they haven't got the bollocks to tell the worker. No, they haven't got the balls to say it. Yes, you don't want to lose people. But as I said to you, if they don't stack up, get rid of them as quick as you can. And you know, if I wanted to get rid of, we won't do working for momentia. But if somebody says to me, look, I can't come in till 10 o', clock, you know, we'll be, we'll be as flexible as we can. But I'm not paying them. You know what I mean? You know we have a system here. When you come into the office, you clock in and when you leave, your clock out. And that's what we pay you accordingly. We're not into all that. You get, someone turns up late, they go, oh, I stay extra half hour. Oh, you, you ain't staying extra half hour. You know what I mean, you know, in other words, you know, you know, they oh, I'll make it up. I work through me lunch break bollocks. Will you sit there eating sandwich tea and you do less then. And you think yourself that's. That's not the system. That's not a successful system for a successful business. You pay people for what they do and pay them fairly, you know, pay them fairly. But this working from home nonsense, minus, I think that's been the biggest, the biggest setback in history of working, of work history.

The biggest setback and stuff really kicked off by lockdown. In a lot of ways that made a lot of people believe they could do that.

Yeah, two, three years ago.

Yeah, four, four and a half years ago. And. And we're still paying for that now.

I mean, look, I have to be honest with you, when they brought the furlough nonsense out, I thought it was wrong because they're paying people to do nothing. You know what I mean? Yeah. So what they should.

Hundreds of billions.

Yeah. And obviously government was well had over, you know what I mean? And, you know, if, if they're not in the workplace and you want to keep things going, maybe the government could have paid them 50, but they should have made it on a returnable loan, you know what I mean? Not, you know, if you give anybody something for nothing and then you stop it, they don't like it. But we never done the furlough nonsense. We, we could carry on working. And the people that went on that, I think they got a couple of quid old gun. But we, you know, like I was saying bluntly, and they're going, oh, you know, but I've got, you know, I've got a watch, you've got a health thing. I said, look, we've got to comply what the government tell us. But to us, the government has said if we put things in place, we can still carry on working. And that's what we've done. And you had, you had all the proper people coming in and you had the. When, when Air HR announced that they're bringing this furlough out, you would think the building was on fire. They was room. Honestly, I've never seen them move so quick. And you know what, a lot of them were managers, right. And I made a point that, you know, whoever thinks they're being clever, they won't be with us, you know, So I planned from then, you, you will not be staying with us. And I managed just like running out the door and when they come back and all that. And, you know, it's not difficult to get rid of people. They hang itself, you Know what I mean? Yeah. I mean we should have a great policy at work. You're not to use the computer privately or the phone privately. And, and we had an area set up where we supplied like laptops and phone chargers and all this. And you know, the best way, you know, we had that in a contract, any, anybody using that instantaneousle and what you used to do is like leave them in a room on their own, you know, I mean, you know they're wrong and they're on there checking their holiday out. Computer man checks it out, gone simple. Yeah, so what I'm trying to say is these people think they're clever, but if somebody asks you, can I use it? Of course you say yeah, you know, I mean there was one woman, she's like, she's with us quite a few years and then you know, we come up, we had this, I don't know, I T man and he said I can check this, check that. So we, we used to check it whenever we wanted and we ain't being petty, you know what I mean? And he checked it and he said, well today she's had two hours doing bookings, holiday bookings and, and looking at clothes and she was in the accounts office, you know what I mean? And anyhow we got rid of her and, and she had a scream up and tried to hit us with seven things that the company had done wrong. And you know, because I think at the time, you know, the tribunals were a little bit more fairer then and she lost everything, you know what I mean? I've gone to one tribe, I've been one tribunal case in 41 years and that was a two bob plumber, right, that says he had an heart attack. Yes, I'm sure he did, I have to say. Self inflicted heart attack. He started coming to work, lazy, dirty, fucking smelly, ignorant and fucking like a complete waste of time. And you ain't got to have a brain in your head, you know, it's either women problems, drug problems, drink problems, money problems or personal problems. And you know, I've seen it all before. Anyhow, he weren't stacking up and we said, we started working him out the door and all of a sudden he said, give me 20 grand and I'll go away quietly. I mean it's blackmail, isn't it? Yeah, we probably spent a million pound. A million? A million pound? Yeah, we went all the way to the Supreme Court with it and in the Supreme Court his lawyers, million quid, legal fees. Yeah, but we probably had 50 mils worth of advertisement. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean we ain't stupid, are we? You know, I mean, right? We don't run a business. Stupid people don't run businesses. No. Anyhow.

And did you do that to make a point as well? You just spent all that money so then everyone else goes, knows not to.

Do it basically, you know, if you, if you allow someone to bully you, then everyone else, of course, you know, it works. So, but the fact that we was right and he was wrong and, and we get to the Supreme Court and the story had told them, they believed it, they just believed it, you know, I mean, and when I said to.

My lawyers, you lost the case.

Well, I'll tell you what, we didn't lose the case. What, what he was claiming was he's, he's a worker and not self employed. So they said, he said, well, I ain't lost nothing. It didn't cost me too Bob. Because in no way and thought we would give him anything. I mean if anything it probably cost him a fortune because okay, he's getting legal aid and all this and unions backing him. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, but I would think he's unemployable now because you know, I'm saying the publicity and, but he tried to make out that we was the wrong people. I mean there was a story in a paper that I sacked a man because he had a heart attack. I, I've given people money when they've been ill off of work and you know, it's not what you do, you know, and you know, I'm sure he had heart attack. People say he did and then, you know, maybe they should read the doctor's report why he had heart attack. But according to my lawyers, you can't bring that up in court. Really, you know, in other words, like, you know, I mean, if that's the truth, that's the truth. But I mean what I should have said to the lawyers is okay, if he says, oh, he's had heart attack, maybe the, the doctor's report of why it's happened, maybe that should be read out in court. I didn't think like that at the time because I just thought who would, who's going to believe what he's saying? He was with us six years, self employed, he was fat registered. He's claiming for his wife, working for him in his office, office at home. He was claiming everything possible that a self employed guy could do. But then all of a sudden when, when you know, he's not stacking up. He thinks that now he thinks he's employed. I mean it took six years through the courts, best money I ever spent. But unfortunately that guy has ruined it for genuine self employed people. And you know, you know yourself, self employed people, you don't force them into it, they want to go on it. And you know, people say to me, oh, it's because you didn't want to pay the national security.

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What'S he talking about? If I have him on PAYE, we'd make more money. But you know, the self employed person has got more drive, more enthusiasm, he earns more money, he pays more tax. But you got all the like oddballs and weirdos. Oh, you know, you're trying to nick money. I mean that guys were on this particular plumber was probably on about 150 grand a year. Wow. And but as I say, he lost because, you know, and anybody that we get rid of has lost. I don't care what, what they, you know, they win a two bob case or, or you've got to give them a bit of holiday money but you've lost because you're no longer gonna get that type of money for anyone else. And he was probably working for the best plumbing company in London and it's.

On your CV and you can't phone up for a reference.

Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, you know, it's, it's like, I mean it's a pity we can't. When somebody comes in, you know, there is a way of checking it but you know, have you been involved in any disputes at work? You know, I mean some of them are stupid. Yeah, it was something like, but you know, I didn't do nothing wrong. Like, you know, the, you know, HR thought I was shagging this secretary in, in the office, in the, in the room. And then he goes, he goes, you know, I was only in there like because, you know, I was looking for some paint, you know. You know what I mean? I think idiots, you know, I'm just, I'm just saying they like, they come up with so much like the. What do they do? I mean I know someone. Now I won't say they work for the watch people, they work for this watch company, right? And like quite an important watch company. I can't think the name like begins with R, ends with X. Five letters. Yeah, five letters, but second letter O. Anyhow, she's quite a senior position there and she actually works in a big store, a really big store up in Oxford street but in that department of the watches. And she's like, she's a switched on lady, 30 odd years of age, you know, sharp as a razor, polite, all the nice bits, you know, an ideal person to work for you. And she was telling me the other day that they're some busy body at work, has called, called on, been to HR and says that she's sexually harassed him and, and they're taking it to. She said look, I've got to get my lawyers, I can't. She said, she, I said, I said so. And then she said to me, evidently she had walked past him and supposed to have touched him. I mean me, I've never been that lucky you with me. And so he's had a scream up. It's nonsense anyhow. And I said, you know what position is, is he, you know, in, in a line of. And she said, well you know, he always wants to jump the queue, you know, I mean he gets her out of the way, moves up. And I said, look know, I know it's. He said, she said, and of course you got cameras everywhere but these people come up with, you've Done it where there ain't a camera. How does that work? Why they always do it when there ain't a camera. And. And anyway, she's going to fight in that. But it's so stressful. And. And I said, but look, all you got. The most important thing is just find out, has he been down this road before? And there's a shop. She said they got rid of him, of his last company for taking money, bribery or something. You know what I mean? So, yeah, you know, and I'm just saying someone can call it on. And, you know, I think when you, as I say, accusing a woman's sexual assault, I mean, I've been in the workplace 55 years, no one's ever touched me or even said anything suggestive. Yeah, but. And I've never had it said against me. You know what I mean? I've never, you know, but. But, you know, I used to make the point of make sure I keep your distance with certain female staff.

Yeah.

And if they were ever in my office, I always have the blinds open because it was like a comfortable city office. And. And, yeah, but, you know, any of them could have said anything or not said anything. You know, they could, could, but you could spot the troublemakers off a mile away. You can spot them a mile away. I mean, we used to get rid of women and guys, if they don't dress right, they have a uniform, and if you got a bird in there with all the tits hanging out or. No, I'm just saying. And, you know, other people are getting.

Rid of people for how they dress.

You know, where it's leading to. You know what I mean? You just know. And we had a couple there that, like, you'd think they were strippers. Right. And then everyone's uncomfortable and, you know, they talk a bit freely and all of a sudden it's all right, they're gone. It ain't a problem. Like the. The ones.

Are you ruthless? Do people think you're ruthless? Yes, they do.

Yeah.

Do you think you're ruthless?

No, no, not Ruth. I mean, if I was ruthless, I'd shoot them, wouldn't I? You know what I mean? But no, I'm just. I'm, I'm, you know, I know how to run a successful business. People say, me, you got to get happy. Well, yeah, I've had people work for me 20, 30 years. I've had their kids, their grandkids, you know, we're very much a family business, but people can say what they want to get against me. I know the truth. I know the truth. And you know, people go on this, oh, you know, he's greedy. You know, they're talking, I mean anybody that knows about me, you know, we're very much involved with charities, very much a family man. I have four children. I love kids, I went to school with them. Leave that one. Hell, come on.

It just sometimes takes a bit of time, that's all.

Yeah, no, I was satisfied at the back. Yeah. And you know, so we used to have a good work environment and we'd incentivize people. We used to have a 200 pound voucher for Langhams on a monthly basis and we'd have about 25 categories. Best Apprentice, smartest person in the office, female, male, one who took the most jobs, one who got the most reviews, one who's been done the most overtime. And, and they would all be pushing to get a voucher. 200 pound voucher. They'd obviously go with her husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever it may be. And it's incentivized people, you know what I mean? And, and that's what we've done. And that's a great idea. When, when this Covid nonsense. Don't, don't leave the house and all that nonsense. We incentivize people coming in. We give them, this is officer, we give them a score a week bonus for coming in. We give them free lunches, free tea, free everything. And we give them parking facilities and, and, and they, they couldn't wait to come to work, you know what I mean? But the wrong ones, they like, you know, they've gone, aren't they?

Well, in a way that was quite a good leveler, wasn't it? COVID Lockdown.

A good what?

A good leveler in the, the 20% of your staff that don't want to be there. They, they walk.

That's right. I mean look, we, we had everything in place like testers and we, we even got them testing kits before the government thought of it. I, I, I bought about 20 grand to us, Right, right. Not, not dodgy. I don't mean that, but I know a guy that was shipping a load of containers with all this equipment in and he done very well. Sharp was a razor guy, the guy. And, and when he told me about the testing thing, so I think I bought 16 grands worth. Right. And what we've done, we've given to all, every engine we've got machining our reception. If you tell me didn't stack up, you can't come in and we've done it. We Start Shikuru. We edge Demi and someone come here. Don't stack up. You can't come in. Oh, yeah, but I'm not. Look, that's. That's the deal we're doing. That was what we. The information was given is what we carried out with. And people say, you know, you force people to have the jab, Charlie. No, I didn't force anyone to have the jab. What I said, I think it was in about August, and I think when the. It ended in 21, didn't it, the COVID didn't it? 2021 ended and in about August and that. And. And everybody was still masked up and everything. And I said that as from September, I will not be employing anybody that's not been jabbed. And nobody went out and got the jab. And then time we got to September, all of a sudden, Covid disappeared. So it was never implemented. But yes, I would have implemented it. And I got people now. You forced a jab, You've done it. No, I was protecting my staff. And. And our customers. And customers were ringing up as he had the jab and certain engineers that had already had it, you know, that they thought it was the right move. And I still don't know if it is or it ain't, and they're having it. And, oh, look, can you let us know if you've got it or not had it. And we had customers asking for people, don't send me anyone that's not at the jab, you know, and so that's what the customer wanted. It suited us anyhow, knowing that people could come to work and not necessarily catch anything because, you know, you know, a lot of them got children at home and old people, and they don't want to come in the workplace and you've got someone in there that's got it. So, you know, we had the machine, and the machine says, if you're above that temperature, you ain't coming in. And we've done everything possible to. To protect staff and customers, but you hear all these, like, pests and like oddballs. He pushed the jab, he done this, he done that. I've done nothing. I. I followed instructions, what the government gave us. I mean, you couldn't get on a plane, you couldn't go in. You know, it was. I mean, anything.

Most of us couldn't run our business.

It was.

It was illegal for me to run my business.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Yeah.

But because we was an essential service and blimey, did we. Did we help Some people out and. And we was very busy, actually. This is. Probably went up by 20% because we could say to the customer whether he's had the jab or not. But what we said is, look, they get tested every day because they've got the kits. They test their self. If they're in our office, they get tested, but they've got the kit on them. Before he comes in, he'll do that test. You know, that thing you had, like, tells you straight away, doesn't it? The customers are like over the moon with it and engineers are over the moon because. And a lot of customers just leaving the door open, you know, ringing up with a credit card teaser, like, leave a note and they're in the house. But everyone was scared. But, you know, we, we done it the correct way and. And I look back now and I think it was. It was the right thing to do, what we've done. You know, I mean, everyone's belly aching now, this and the other. But, you know, don't take that with me. Take out with the scientists, take it up with the experts that guided us into what we should do. And let's be fair, if it we had the outbreak again tomorrow, we would all still want to protect ourselves best we can. Sorry, I'm waffling on about that.

So I want to ask you about what you might do if you were Prime Minister or how you might run the country, because I think it's important to hear from prominent business owners because we don't get to do that much labour. Seem to. Don't want to listen to us. But I want to go a couple of layers back and give some context. So my TikTok was blowing up quite a lot. 2021. And I started walking around Peterborough High Street.

Yeah.

With a microphone, just talking to people.

Yeah.

And I'd start giving away cash. And then all of a sudden, out of everywhere, all the homeless people came flocking over and, you know, so. And I'd ask them all, why don't you get a job? Why don't you get a job? Why don't you get a job? Why don't you get a job? And the answer was always the same, because it's not worth it. Because I've got a house that they give me and if I go to work, I lose this benefit and that benefit and. And so I'll earn less working than what I'm given everyone. And there's more and more fucking homeless people in Peterborough.

Why?

What is going on? Why have we got this massive welfare.

Yeah, well, again, it is because you're giving people money to do nothing. And when you start doing that, why would you do something if you can get money for nothing?

Like it's human nature.

Take the easy route saying that people with good work ethics, you know, they don't want nothing for nothing. They want to go out and be proud. Proud and. Yeah, and earn their money. And you know, I don't know if you, you know, or remember back. I know you're not, they're not old. Old. I'm not suggesting that. But you know, years ago it was, it was embarrassing or disrespectful not to have a job. Like people didn't even want to talk to you. You know, someone would be in a room, like you're with family now. Someone comes in and go, I don't talk to him, he don't work. You know, like when he could work. And yeah, they go, oh, he's never done a day's work in his life. And, and it was, it was, it was, you know, you didn't want to be associated with that. But now it's like, oh yeah, I don't do.

No one cares.

I'll get 200 quid a week, I'll get an ass. I get this, I get this. I get that, you know, mental health.

Is such a big problem at the moment. Well, if mental health is such a big problem, clearly you've got something to say on that. But I've got a theory. If mental health is such a big problem at the moment, and clearly people get good self worth out of working and not being out of work, why don't we just get more people working and then the mental health is better.

It's common sense, you know, you know, as they're saying they're damaging it, it's been not going to work and exercising and, and raring with wives and families and loneliness. Oh my God, yeah, I'd be lonely.

If I work from home all day, every day not speaking to a human.

Of course you would. I mean, look, we, we, we're what? We, we're like a human. Nature is social creatures, you know, look, everybody with common sense and is not in favor of working from home says what you're saying. I mean, I know people that were begging to get out of their ass. I mean, the old woman's getting onto them or like. And the only thing that's more productive at home is gardening, washing the car, a bit of decorating, shopping, meeting up with friends, going down the boozer. That's the Only thing that's more productive. Yeah, but of course, 10, maybe people work from home are probably more productive, you know, but people say to me, oh, they can't see, oh, you're in the office, you get people talking to you. You get people like, keep having teas people. These people, okay, well, therefore the business is not being run right, you know, I mean, in other words, we, you know, you haven't got, you haven't got to be there with a big stick. But, you know, you let people know your rules and regulations and if they don't comply with it, they don't. But you know, if, if people are, they go, I was at work, I didn't do anything all day. Well, okay, you're a piss taker and obviously your management is shit. You know, that's why we have managers. You know, people say to me, don't you trust people, Charlie? And they're right, I don't.

Why don't you trust people?

Well, because they take the piss, don't they?

Right?

Not everybody. What I'm trying to say is I'm not beating about the bush about it. They go, yeah, but you don't trust people, you know, geezer might work for 20 years. I said, but, you know, when they're at home, you know, even though you're not a piss taker, it's like, oh, I'll pop here in the car, I'll go and pick the kids up, maybe I'll go in the gym. And I'm not saying everyone's like that, and I'm saying a lot of people would work harder, but I believe the majority of people do a lot less. And it's proven now, I mean, you know, I mean, you, a blind man could see what was going to happen, you know, and the ones that are going to lose their jobs to the work from home nonsense people, because why would you open up a business and they're running the show. They're telling you they don't want to come into work. They tell you hours, they're telling you when you can contact me when you can't. And I don't think a lot of people have worked this out yet, but evidently what they call it, elfin safety, is still. You're still responsible for them at their home on the health and safety side. So we ain't far away from people claiming bad back. I didn't have the right chair. I was like, you know, lying in bed doing it. And I rushed down the stairs to pick the phone up and I've slipped, you know, I, I'll go back to my desk with a coffee and I burnt myself. Claims will be coming in left, right and center to businesses very soon next year and that's when businesses will wake.

Up and go to Marbella or Dubai.

Or put a stop on it. I'm telling you now, working from.

Have you heard of them? Right to switch off Bill as well. Where you're not going to be able to contact your staff before work.

Yeah, look, I mean your job wouldn't.

Be able to run if you can't contact people out of work.

It's emergencies. Look, if somebody's uncomfortable, if you're calling them, you, you, you've got that understanding. Like they've got children, they've got, you know, and, or you know, I need to switch off. But they're normally the people that are not in a position that you need. Like, you know, and look, you know, the more they do for your business, the more you're giving to them. Of course it is.

I mean but they've got to earn that.

But I know people that work for me and they said their wife's working at home during this nonsense and they're telling me, they said she's on a, what I call it, she's doing a keep fit lesson during the work on a machine, video on and the phone's there for the office. So she's doing that. Other people said to me, wife goes down the beauty place like half a day, takes the phone, boom, boom, boom. I've got other people saying they're down the gym. I got, I mean I don't even know but swimming pools and parks were packed during COVID you know what I mean? Like swimming pool never been so busy.

Yeah.

And I remember a few people that contacted us and said, you know, this work from home nonsense. He said, he said I've gone to the local swimming bars and he says packed, packed hat, you know what I mean? And yet they make out they're too scared to come and work but they're not too scared to go down the pub or to the, you know what I'm saying? I mean look, anybody that, how would you say it? You know, I don't want to knock everyone work from home, but I'm just saying is majority of people are not more productive and well, you know, and what's going to happen, they've gone for this four day week nonsense that'll go down to three days, you know, and you know what I'm trying to say.

Eventually also the economy is.

Oh, there you go.

We're not growing. Surely the way to grow, create more jobs and work more.

Of course.

So you do those two things. You increase capital, you increase labour, you increase the economy and labour are coming in, penalizing capital, taxing the shit out of us, therefore we don't want to employ as much. And then supporting all the labor and making them all very wokey and entitled and they're doing less and yet they think they can grow the economy.

Well, they're fools, aren't they? Is for sure. And they're liars and they're crooks. I mean, I've said this to quite a few business people. I already know the answer. If I asked you, would you employ the cabinet on your company?

Oh, I love what Musk did in X. And he's going to do it in the government now, like regardless of policy and politics. I was just hoping, fingers crossed, that Trump wins so Musk can go in and fire 80% of the cabinet.

Yeah.

And that's what we need to do in the UK, fire 80% of it.

Well, I, I said, you know, when they, when I would say the buildings are off empty and Jacob Reeves mog, you leave a note, you know, where are you kind of thing. You can get rid of 50 of the civil Service and it makes no difference to the, to what they produce.

And we're paying for them.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And civil Service has actually grown over the years. Yeah. But if it was me, I'd get rid of 50 tomorrow and that'd be the ones that don't want to come into workplace and cut it down by that. And I would pay the people that come in more. I, I suggested at the time, work from home, you get paid 50% less. Come into the office, get 50% more. Where do you think they'll be?

Yeah, they'll be back in the office.

Won't be worrying about train fares then and productivity and you know, I can get more done. There'd be boom in that office and, And I'll tell you what's going to happen, right. And I know this is going to happen and I ain't like, you know, got information from. Well, I won't get nothing off the government anyhow. They're just, they, they're victimizing me and I'm not playing the victim. Yeah. Shortly there, there's a law case going on with them and me.

Why?

Well, you know that nonsense. He mustn't say anything at the moment, but it gets.

So you tell us what it's roughly about.

They're bits of wise to Me?

Because you've left to the country?

Well, yeah, of course I've. You know, I made it.

They wanted. They want money off you?

Well, they have fortunes. I've had over 100 mil. Like I've paid in over 100 mil tax. But all I'm saying is they're being very childish and, you know, they've come up with a little thing that they think they're going to win. If they win, it'd be the biggest mistake they make because the publicity against them will be terrible.

But how much could it. How much could it cost you if you lose?

It won't cost me two bob. Why? Well, it's not about money, right. You know, they're just trying to do something to me that.

Because my friend Alfie Best, he's just left. He's just gone to Monaco.

I know Alfie.

Yeah, he's just gone. He said something like. I can't remember the exact number, but it's hundreds of HMRC cases. Inquiries open on him all the time.

That's right.

And fair play to him. He came on my show and he said, because I'm in the top, what, hundred or whatever, richest people, they just have hundreds of cases open as a policy.

They.

They come for everything regardless. And he's like, I've had enough. He's gone to Monaco.

Look, I know Alfie, you show billionaire. I know him very well. Again, I know why he's left. Because they're trying to get at him instead of looking after the guy. He's as straight as a guy.

How many jobs does he create in this country?

I mean, thousands. Exactly. I mean, look.

And how many jobs have you created in your career?

Thousands.

And yet you've both been exiled.

That's right.

Do they not get it?

That's what I'm saying. They despise people that do well and want to have a better life and help people. But as you talk about the healthy best. And I know many people like Alfie and plenty. I mean, you know, if I run a business well, you know, would I want Alfie on my side or not? I'd rather him have a friend than an enemy. It's a bit like the Trump thing. I mean, as you know, labor of. They've upset the richest man in the world, Elon Musk. Yeah, they've. They've upset 90% of the UK, the.

Most powerful American, and now they've upset.

The most powerfulest man in the world. I mean, it ain't good, is it? No, I mean, it's not good.

It's not good.

I mean, you know, all of us know that, you know, whether you like Trump or you don't like him, he better off to be a friend and an enemy. Like when, you know, I have to go on about the EU when we left, that I don't see any advantage of it and I accept that it happened. And I know Nigel Farage who's, you know, someone that I totally respect in politics and he was very much for Brexit. And people say to me, but out comes now, Charlie, you've gone for reform. I've gone for reform because of Nigel Farage and the way they're straight talking and they're not going to put up with all this that goes on.

And he's the only politician I've spoken to and I've spoken to quite a few that actually wants to support small business and entrepreneurs.

I mean, look, he's a switched on guy and, you know, and he's run his own businesses. Of course. Of course. He was evidently quite a good industry, wasn't he? Yeah. But you, you know, as you know, you know, I'm very much supporting reform and they've got, I think Nigel will.

Be President, probably Prime Minister one day. So let me say that again. Nigel will be Prime Minister one day. Yeah.

Next Prime Minister. Well, say the next one, the labor will have a little shuffle around. When they bit backstabbing, you know, I mean, and, you know, bit of backstabbing, then they're getting.

Yeah.

And then, you know, I don't believe they last a full term. I believe an election will be called. People are saying to me, all the busy boys is. Yeah, but if an early election calls, they got more in peace, they win it. Are the backstabbers going to disappear? That they will be begging, labor will be begging to get out of Downing Street. I said that from day one. And in the first four months, you know what I mean? I mean, that's a lot going on. You've got, you've got Starmer up, you've got Reeves woman telling lies. You've got this Angela Summit saying about killing all the Americans, Trump and all that. You got Lami like, you know, you know, being personal with the, well, the powerless man in the world. You've got Mill, Mill Milburn. What's your name? Mill. What's your name?

Do you mean Ed Miliband Milbank?

You've got him like, evidently is a big, a big forgery going on with the business he's got, you know, I mean, so at the moment, you've got, probably got half the cabinet that we know about are at it, you know, I mean, they're crooks. And it's going to collapse. It's going to collapse, I'm telling you.

How did this country get here? How did it get this bad?

We got here because of all the woke people and we got here because we've been told we can't say this and we can't stand up for ourselves and you can't do this, you can't do that. And unfortunately we've gone along with it rather than just saying no way. I, you know, this, this bollocks about, you know, who you can employ and who you can't and reasons you can't, you reads you can't and look, you know, and then they play the racist card. I don't care if somebody walks in, whether they're black, white or tiddlywink or whatever they are, if they don't stack up for the job, they don't get the job. It's not about racist. People say to me, oh, you're always on about the illegals. Yeah, there's a clue, isn't it? Illegals. And, and then I said if they was, if there was Chinese coming over on the dinghy, we, I don't want to pay for them. And you know, running away from war, I mean, I mean I always thought when you run away from war, you was a coward. And we got people that fought in wars and they're not helping them, they're on the streets, they're homeless, but they're helping people that are running away from so called war. I mean, it ain't right, is it? Maybe they should give the running away people medals. Not the people who have been front line and had their legs and arms blown off, you know what I mean? And people died. They want to look after people that are cowards and liars and dumping their passports in the sea and, and you know, running away from all the offenses that they've been up to. I mean, I mean what, as you say, what is going on? Just to add the bit that I, I get all the woke brigade come on to me about, they're telling me, you know, if someone comes into the workplace and he wants to be called he or she or this and that and the other. And I said we ain't working under that system. And they said, well you can't do that. Well, I can do it, I will do it. We know I'm not gonna have like Eric the Bricklayer light on a Friday But Monday wants to be Mary in the call center. You know what I mean? Well, we're not having it. No, but it's disruptive. You're laughing and. But it's all right, doesn't it? I mean, air. Uncomfortable. If I send, you know, I can Eric the plumber right into. Into. In someone's ass. And then next week he wants to be like Sheila the plumber, you know what I mean? And you know, it's uncomfortable and it's not acceptable and I, I'm. Look, I'd rather go out of business than. And, And I ain't got. I'm not got anything against a dress that you want, you know, I mean, but, you know, the workplace should be able to tell you if they uncomfortable with you in there, like and you know, kind of geezer walking around with a beard in high heels in here. Can you. Well, it's just, I mean, it's not normal. It's not what we want. Look, I, you know, if they may have mental health issues. Well, obviously they have or issues, but don't bring it to the workplace. You know what I mean? And then, you know, that's it. And I don't. I'm not, I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not. I ain't got no personal attack against these people, but I'm not having people like behaving or like want to be called. Or what they call. What's that thing they go. I want to be identified as.

Do you mean non. Binary.

Yeah, all that. You know, it's a business, a workplace. And you know, if, if it, if it's uncomfortable for the business, then, you know, other people feel uncomfortable. I mean, how could you have in call center here and you've got a few women here and you've got a geezer there, like, you know, I mean, with a dress on and beard and like scratching his nuts. Right? And. And you know, that is. You lot. We laugh, but it's not right.

No, my, My son, when he was 12, came back and said that they were teaching him at school that there are 59 genders. And I'm thinking, my son's 12, he's just figuring out, you know, his hormones are going wild. He's going through a really important stage of his life figuring out who he is. And they're teaching me at school there's 59 genders. And I don't think that they're clearly defining between sex and gender because the way I see it, there's two sexes. And it's confusing for These kids, it's unnecessary.

And you're right. Look, they come up with how many genders they want. It ain't difficult, is it? You either got a and you're a man or you ain't. You know, I mean, it ain't complicated, is it? No one coming. Like, I'm just being. You know, we have to be very black and white on things, and, you.

Know, I respect it. Because the problem is a lot of people are black and white. They're getting canceled, shut down. They're getting accused of being rapists. They're getting called fascists, Nazis, far right. And some of them are even going to prison for stuff they post on social media. Now, even though we're letting criminals out, pedophiles and rapists and murderers are getting let out, and people who type stuff on social media are getting put in.

I know. I mean, look at that guy that unfortunately hung himself over a little. Little protest saying the government ain't right. And. And he got the prison and, you know, he's hung himself. And I mean, again, I would be taking Starmer to court on manslaughter. And now, unfortunately, a farmer has done the same thing, committing suicide over the inheritance tax. You know, the. And I mean, it's just not right. I mean, whichever way the problem we have, most normal people will stand up and say. And agree with what we're saying, and. But you've got all the oddballs. We'll do everything possible to let you think you're wrong. And. We ain't wrong. We're not wrong. I mean, you know, people say to me, you mustn't say this. You can't say this, and you can't this and you can't that. Why is that, then? Why. You know what I mean? I ain't. I'm not personally insulting anybody. I'm just saying is that I employ the person that's right for the job. Not because I've got to have a mixture of people and not because, you know, I've got to have a foreigner. And people say to me, will you. Would you employ like, the. The illegals? Do they understand what illegal means? I mean, it ain't complicated, is it? If you're illegal, then you shouldn't be employed. You shouldn't be here, should you? I mean, this nonsense about. And people are believing, oh, they're running away from war. And, you know, and you've got people out there going, oh, yeah, would you put one in your house? You're having a lot in you. I mean, you know, what I'm saying in there, I mean, you know, I don't like to see people on the streets. I'll be honest with you. I also don't like to see, you know, thieves and rapists and, and murderers and sex people, you know, being put up in good hotels. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's not common. I, I could resolve the dinghy problem within a week. How simple? Okay, you have two lines in where they're coming across the black line, the thingy passes it and then you've got 100 yards, there's a red line. Go over the red line. I use the word navy, needs to be in the sea. They therefore blast the, what they call it dinghy out the water. And I don't mean kill the people. What I'm trying to say, to turn the dinghy over, then put the people on the barge and send them back, and within one week they will stop coming. Sorry, I've got an even simpler way. Stop the benefits for them. Sorry, that's simpler. Do you know. Do you know why they come? I'm going to ask you this question, and I'm not trying to be clever, because you'll get this right in here. Why. Why do you generally believe all the illegals head to the uk? I know you know the answer.

Well, I think, to be fair, a lot of them are very. Miss Sold by criminals on the other side.

That's not the answer.

Okay, why.

Why are they avoiding other countries and coming to us? It's an obvious answer.

Well, why are they coming to us? Because they get more out of us for doing less.

Okay, the, the talk is, amongst the illegals in the UK, you get 40% more benefits than any other country, Sybil.

I mean, so you're saying cut that. They won't.

Well, what I'm saying is they ain't coming because of war. They ain't avoiding countries because of this. They are coming here because they're being given 40 more benefits than any other country will give them now. You know what I mean? It's obvious in it, stop the benefits, stop the, the illegals. Right, but I'm sorry, I'm not.

So if you're Prime Minister, that's what you do straight away.

Okay. No, they'd be over in a week.

Yeah.

You know, there'd be no benefits for illegals. And I have to say, that's what.

Trump's doing in the us, I think.

Oh, you got. He's actually, he's getting rid of a lot of people. Deportation isn't it, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean stop the benefits and you've stopped, you've stopped the illegals, simple.

Also then you've got a lot more money to pump back into your own country.

You know, it works. I mean people go to me, oh you, you're against poor people, Charlie, and people on benefits. I've made it very clear from day one every, anybody that is generally on benefits, disabled mental health carer, you know, or generally can't go to work for a disability, they should be given more money, look after them as much as anything. Anybody that's on benefits that can work and won't work, they should be off them and then we would have a lot more money to look after the genuine people. But people come on me go, oh you forget where you come from Charlie, like you're digging out. I'm not digging out. The poor people help them more.

Well, you've employed how many apprentices? Well there you go like. Because I sometimes think why don't we used to have a brilliant apprentice scheme in the UK decades ago and now there's all these universities which don't really teach you anything and you can't get a job and you, you're on average 45 grand in debt but you get on average a 26 grand salary and you've got your student loan to pay back which is all interest at the, at the start. Yet why aren't we need all these really good trades people and we could go off the street, pick millions of people and teach them good trades, you know, the self worth goes up, the economy goes up.

I'll come up with a scheme, you know the homeless people, you know, you get them into like an hostel and that and start getting them in the workplace, you know and, and you know it. A lot can change. When I was working with Cameron and Osborne, I'm not name dropping but Nigel told me no. So when I was working with them, right, about apprentices and we nearly had it, right, and I'll come up with a scheme which probably many people have come up with, okay, that's simple. When you leave school, university, job or an apprenticeship, government funded apprenticeship, so scheme. So the government instead of giving them job benefit money, call it a job allowance. So instead of giving that money to that kid there was sitting like and watching whatever on now, don't know Good Morning Britain or he ain't on Jeremy Cole no more, is he? But anyhow instead of sitting there like watching that, you give the money to the employer, he will then match that amount, right? So they come to work and they get paid, like, money. That is the government's money plus the employer's money, which makes it beneficial for them to come to work. And that would resolve youth unemployment, it will resolve skill shortage, it will resolve. It will cut down crime on the street, it will save on rehabilitation costs. All you've got to do is give them a job. And when I was talking to Cameron on it and he said to me, he said, it's not as simple as that, Charlie, right? And I said to him, but you're the Prime Minister. I mean, if I was a businessman, which I am, and I wanted to make money like, the government would save millions of pounds by not giving out the benefits to youngsters and getting them to come into the workplace. And I actually said to Osborne, I mean, he's obviously was good with figures. I said, you'll be millions in, it won't cost you two bob. I said, like the, the crime on the street and just everything. It's so obvious, isn't it? I mean, you know, I ain't clever, but I'm not stupid. And you know that all you've got to do is get youngsters into work, you know, and, and, and, you know, it's. I think I said earlier, if you're giving people money to do nothing, that's what they do is nothing. But the real proper people will go to work and be proud of going to work and, and, you know, looking after their family and, and contributing something. I was. Some point. I'm trying to say it. Okay, this is another one, right? Okay. So when, when he, when youngster gets pulled by old Bill or nicked or whatever he's up to, you know, whatever he up to, the first thing he says, I've got nothing to do, you know, I ain't got a job, I've got nothing to do. And that's what all my mates do. And, and so it's simple. If they had a job, everything would cut down by 50, 50. I'm going off it a bit, but Boris Wright, when he was running for mayor, both times, can't remember, years ago, and it surprised me asking me the question. So come around there building, you know, like, get a bit of publicity and all that, you know, I mean, and, and it was all right, you know, I mean, I'm not against him. And he asked me a question which surprised me, someone of ease, what would you say? Not knowledge, but of ease. I don't know, like status would ask. And he said to me, I think at the time, There was all the riots in Brixton going on, races, things. And he said to me, how can we cut down crime on the streets? And I could not believe he didn't know the answer. And I just said to him, it's simple, get him a job. I said, you don't get people in work going around stabbing people, you know what I mean? Like I said, it's simple. And he looks at me as if to say, well, that was like a million pound question. Get my job. I mean, they all say I've got nothing to do. That's what, that's what we do. We knock about. I mean, who's going to employ me? And I'm not getting enough money and I've got no future. And you know, because, because they're not, they're not used to the workplace and many of their parents have dust about at home and, and they think it's good to, you know, see their parents working from home. And I think that's what you do, you know, and they're like thinking, well, how can I do that? How can I do nothing but get money? And the only way they can get it is by no good, unfortunately. But it's so sad to think, because it's a simple solution to so many things is in the workplace. People who say to me, you know, I left School 15, I say, little education, you know, all you need to do is read and write and know how to like, you know, what's that thing divide things up, what they call that divisions or something, you know. But no, no, well, that, but what I mean, they go, you know, as, you know, they're like, well, it's not difficult, is it? You must have the lion's share. So if there's the case take, you know, you know, you want the most of it then. Yeah, I mean, you ain't got to have a brain in your head to work that one out. And, and you know, I left at 15 and looking back, yeah, of course I regret it, you know what I mean? You know, I should have left at 14, you know what I mean?

Why?

Well, why? Because I ain't, I ain't gonna wind up. Well, I ain't gonna wind up like, you know, as an accountant or a lawyer or, or what's some other busy bodies know, you know, that weren't the route I was going, so the quicker I got into the workplace, you know, we get educated in the workplace, you know, I mean, that's where you learn your education. School's probably, I don't know how Long. You're at school for 10 years or something, right? You're in the workplace for 50 years. So you know, once you get rid of that thing then yes, go to university if you want to be a doctor or a lawyer or you know, other bits and pieces but media and, and, and like you know a can see they don't need all this like sitting behind the desk, you know, I mean, I mean you need to get into the workplace and I'm just saying is that, you know, you look at the youngsters at school and you already know like which ones, what direction they're going in. And you just, you know, for the last year of school put them in like in companies, in workplace, let them get the experience, that's what they're going to do. And you know, it's priceless. You know what I mean? I mean why sit at school for a year sorting out a bit of Latin and logarithms, you know what I mean? No, it is so, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Sorry, I'll probably be in a bit. A bit.

No, you're fine. I, I regret not starting my business Sooner. I started 27 and I wish I'd have started at 17. And yeah, I felt like at school and university I went there because apparently that's what smart people do. I now know smart people start their own businesses and I do regret that and I would go back and of course I got 50 grand in debt as well and that took me what, seven, eight years to pay off. Some people are 50 or 60 and they get their pay slip. Most of it goes to the government and then they're still paying off the student loan and now they've just put uni fees up and student loan fees, they can borrow more.

Look, what you're saying is, you know, been happening for years and you know, we, the reason why you've got so many people going university because teachers, that's what they're telling them at school, they went university so they don't know a different route. So they go, you've got to go university. But if you had like normal people, like you know, bricklayers and things, that's what we would push them to. And I, I could, I, I've said it for years, doing an apprenticeship is equivalent to any degree. You can take it anywhere in the.

World, probably get a job quicker.

Well, you know, you'll always get work. I mean, you know, I was told 50 odd years ago when I was like bunting off school, helpless plumber, right? He said to me, do an apprenticeship. He said, you'll never be out of work and you'll earn loads of money. Now if I was told that 50, maybe 60 years ago, right, I know you think I don't look that old, but anyway, I was told 60 odd years ago that today that's more so than ever. Yeah, it's more so than ever.

Rickies were making a killing in lockdown. I knew. Hundred grand a year, brickies in lockdown.

But you know, it's supply and demand and yeah, and the other thing is a lot of people are directed to university. They don't really want to be there. It's like, well, that's what mum and dad done and that's what my Auntie Mary done and that's what my sister done. And then they leave. They leave, not McDonald's, they leave university and they don't get the job they want and you know, they wind up in McDonald's or Tesco's and, and, and if only they, they would have been given a different direction. You know, I don't say force anyone into anything but, you know, not everybody wants to be in that university. I mean, I've heard people say to me, I'll say to them, do you think it was like normal people? Like. I mean, I think I can say, not a problem. Mickey Flannigan, comedian, comes from Bethnal Green. Proper geezer, proper east London fella, working class family. And whenever it was he was living in Bethnal Green, was telling me, he said, and some air come up, he's going to go university for some reason. And he said, he said all my mates wouldn't talk to me, I thought I was a wrong one because I'm going university. It's not what you do. And he said, and I said to him, do you think it's was, you know, we've had many discussions, me and Mickey on different shows. And I said, do you think it was the right move, Mick? And he said, he said, well, if I'm being honest, I had a three year piss up. And you know, he likes to laugh. And he said, look, he said, charlie, I'm drinking from the same teapot as you. You know what I mean? He said, but that's where our direction, I was pushed, all right. He happens to be a comedian. I don't think he learned that in university, you know what I mean? Like, and you know, he's like, you know, he's happy to admit he said, to be honest, Charlie, it was a three year piss up.

Yeah, and probably got in debt.

Well, obviously Yeah. I mean, if you. If, of course, I mean, but. But it's. It's like. Well, I think what I'm trying to get, you know, university isn't be all and end all and there's life without a degree.

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