How to Retire by 35

If I wanted to retire by age 35, what do I have to do?

Start working age four. You got 31 years. It's possible. Unless you're 34.7.

Right.

So you're 25, 26. Okay, fine. So how to retire in the next 10 years? That's possible. I reckon there's seven steps.

Seven?

Yeah. Do you want me to take you through them?

All notes at the ready?

Yeah. Okay. Well, I've retired three times, so I'm good at it.

Are you?

Yeah, well, my dad's given up smoking 100 times, so he's really good at it.

Right, yeah. Well practiced.

Yeah, exactly. So I retired 29 technically. But then the age 29 roughly was when the first recession of 2008 kicked in. And I thought I was rich because I had a few million quids worth of property I think shared with my business partner. And I thought, well, that was enough. And I realized pretty soon after that's not enough. So the first thing I need to tell people is a million is not enough. And actually what I'll cover is a way to figure out how much is enough.

Okay.

And by the way, how much is enough changes every year. So, for example, let's say people think right now 10 million is enough to retire, but 10 million is 5 million in 15 to 20 years with inflation. So you actually have to keep growing it just to keep up with inflation, which is the devaluation of your spending power. So I retired at 29, not even a week. Went on a week's holiday. My business partner was like, the world is fucked, get back. So that was the end of that and I was bored anyway on the ski holiday. Then we did pretty well in the recession. We bought a load of properties 2008, 9 and 10, and we made a lot of money. And I also launched the now UK's biggest property training business, Progressive Property. So about 32, which was when my son was born, I was like, right, I'm going to retire now so I can raise the world's number one golfer. That's was my goal.

How's that going?

Well, I'm. By age five, I reckon I got him in the top three or four in the world.

Wow.

By age seven, he'd retired.

He's gonna retire.

It didn't quite go to plan, but hey, look, I loved it and I gave it a good go and I spent loads of time with him. So age 32, I became a millionaire a just before age 31. And then I retired again age 35. So in age 32, I might have lasted two weeks, I think. I think my wife was like, you need to work, you're annoying me. And then age 35. So that was roughly when I wrote my book Life Leverage. So Life Leverage was my first non property based business book. And it's also all about outsourcing and leverage hints called Life Leverage. And I thought, well, I'm going to practice what I preach, I'm going to write this book on how to leverage and then I'm going to retire to prove the leverage. And I retired and I lasted a couple more weeks this time. And that was when I started my podcast Disruptors 10 years ago. But of course filling the time with something else to do. One thing I will warn people about is I don't think you should be looking for retirement of work and passion and meaning and projects and purpose. You should just be looking to make enough money so you don't need to keep working in a job you don't like for money. And that's actually my biggest lesson in retiring and being able to retire. I don't have to work. So now I can choose what I say no to and be much more selective on what I say yes to. And I've got a reasonable amount of autonomy and freedom, which I suppose I'm living retirement every day because what would I do if I weren't officially working? Well, I'd be doing stuff like this, be traveling to Dubai and doing content like this. So I lasted a few weeks, age 35, just played golf every day with my son. And then yeah, thought I need to make this podcast a thing. And I went back into the office and I'm going to make this a big podcast disruptors now. So I think billions of views and downloads. And so I suppose I succeeded. But yeah, along the way I learned that retirement is a probably a delusion. Many people when they retire they're like really old. It takes the average person something like 32 years to become a millionaire and so they think they're everything that they wanted in life and then they actually stop doing things and then it is not long and they're dead. So but being able to reverse engineer this back, I've got seven steps. So step one is you've got to start as early as you can planning for your retirement. So obviously you can't start when you're 25 if someone's watching this at 35, but you start today. I actually remember when I was at uni, so I would have been 18, 19. I remember going into NatWest bank and looking at starting up sort of my own private pension. I mean, imagine if, you know, everyone at 19 is thinking like that. In the end, I didn't do it. And thankfully I started my business age 26. But the sooner you start, and by the way, saving for your retirement is not how to retire. Let me just tell you that. But that if there's a stock phrase out there, it's save for your retirement. That's what the governments and central banks want you to do. Because the only source of income from the government is taxation. And you are the source of taxation. The only source of money from the banks, the savers and the depositors, which is you. So you are the only source of income to the bank and the government. Well, okay, they can borrow money, but then you pay it back. So you are still the only source of income. So in that regard, you don't save for retirement, you plan for retirement. And the way you plan for retirement is you start early and you work out what your number is. So you start today and you work out that. I would say the, the easiest way to calculate this is, is how much would you comfortably enjoy to live a good life a year? Then you've got to double it because you've got to assume that you're going to pay half in tax. And then you've got to work out what sum that is 6% of. So 30 grand is 60 grand after tax and that is 6% of a million capital. So a million capital net, net net super safe, super secure could be achieved in Vanguard life strategy accumulator 100 equity fund. That's achievable. So 30 grand is probably not enough for you. Let's say it's 60 grand. So you want 2 million capital. If you want 120 grand, you want 4 million capital. Now when you get to these numbers, you can start reducing your tax. So then instead of assuming half, you might be able to assume you're only paying a third. So on maybe 2 million gross, it would be 120 grand at 6% and you might be able to get that down to only paying 30 grand in tax. So you've got 90 grand a year passive income. And that would be from a proven stock market. Vanguard Life Strategy is essentially a fund of funds. And probably the most secure, safe, proven way to retire is to consistently as much as you can pay into the stock market. It's not my, it's not the quickest, it's not even my favorite, but it is the Warren Buffett slow and steady way. Now, I'M not. This is not financial advice, this is financial experience that I have. But if you. The specific fund that Mark and my business partner and I mostly invest in is Vanguard Life Strategy 100 Equity. So it's not bonds, it's equities accumulation, which means dividends are reinvested. So it compounds. And that's a fund of funds. It essentially is a self managing fund. So you don't have to keep adjusting and buying and selling, you know, every six months or a year to rebalance your portfolio. You could choose more exposure to the US stock market or more exposure to the UK stock market. You could have emerging markets, blah, blah. It's pretty automated. So start early number one and set your target number. Now, let's say your target number is 6% of 5 million, which is 300 grand. So now your goal is to build 5 million capital as quickly as possible. Now you could do that in three to five years, launching an information business and selling it for 7 or 8 million, paying the tax and being net with 5. So there's different ways to do it, but you set the number first. Now some people say, oh well, 6% return, that is, that's really low. It is at the moment. But you know, Trump's tariff showed the market can tank pretty quick over night. So safe and consistent over the long term is six. I mean, for the last decade. Why don't we look at it? Let's have a look. What has the stock market. This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct Bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension Gold investing guide completely for Free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships, and when I do, I, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invested things that I invest into. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver, and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com grown on average the last 10 years. I would say it's more than six. I'm going to guess it's probably near a 10. Oh, Grok's busy. 11.2%.

Wow.

Without dividends. 13.3% with dividends. So, yeah, good. Problem is that's been the last 10 years, so maybe we're not going to get that the next 10 years. What is it Warren Buffett says? Be greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy. And what you want to do with money is, you know, when you're doing well and you're making money, you want to be planning for when it's harder. And most people when, when they're doing really well, they just spend it and waste it. But you want to be planning for the, the rainy days, the, the lower days. Because the downside of when the market isn't growing so much is your capital isn't growing so much, but the upside is you can buy in cheaper.

Yeah.

So Warren Buffett says, well, everyone doesn't like it when their stock goes down. I love it when my stock goes down because I just buy more. So I'm saying six. I'm probably being a bit on the low side. You could, you could maybe do eight.

But for retirement it's better to be that way around, right?

Yeah. Because then when you get to your figure and your time frame, you're going to have more than you thought, not less than you thought.

And the reason you're saying 6%. So how does the vehicle work? Am I then selling 6% of my portfolio off every year?

You're living off the income. So when you look at investing in a, a fund or in a stock, you've got the option of, it'll say acc on it, which means accumulation. And what that means is when you, when a dividend is drawn and you get paid out, essentially the percentage of the dividend according to your stock holding, that would be paid to you, but accumulation means it just automatically gets reinvested. So essentially it's a way for you to grow your capital part, and the goal is to grow the capital part. And then you get to a day where you change accumulation to Income and you start drawing the income. Now Warren Buffett hates drawing income because he says that interrupts compounding. So what he would do is he would reinvest the accumulator and it's all done automatically. And then if he needed to, to have some money, he would just sell that amount of stock so you could get there. Let's say you've got to. Your 6% is 100 grand a year of your portfolio. So that year you could sell 100 grands worth of your stock and then the next year you sell 100 grands worth of your stock. So what's the, as opposed to turning the income on and drawing the income, which you could also do.

And what's, what's the main difference from that? Because essentially you're still taking the same amount of money out of the pot. Is it, they're taxed differently, what's the main benefit? Would they be taxed differently?

Well, I mean like the tax laws could change when you get there.

Yeah, but I'm just think when you.

Draw it's income tax.

Yeah. Is it income tax?

Yeah. And you may get capital gains tax on the sale, which is less. Yes, it is.

Right.

That's probably another reason why Warren Buffett does it.

That makes sense.

Yeah. At the moment in the UK capital gains taxes in the 20s and income taxes in the 40s. Yeah. So yeah, that point you're going to want to look at your tax strategy. That's a very good point. Okay, so point 2 then of 7 is you need to keep your overhead as low as possible for as long as possible. Because what a lot of people get is lifestyle creep where as they earn more, they spend more. And a lot of people, if you live a normal life and you, you're not a multi millionaire, then probably one of the better ways for you to sweat more money to invest is to reduce your expenses. So yes, you could get a commission based role, yes, you could do overtime, yes, you could go for a promotion. But most people could cut their living expenses by 10 to 20% without a dramatic reduction in their quality of life. And 10 to 20% of a few grand a month is in the high hundreds a month which compounded over 10 years plus is quite a lot of money. So for as long as you can live on as low an overhead as you can, don't get a big house, don't get a big car, don't buy a load of expensive holidays, don't go broke trying to look rich to start with. Hold it off for as long as you Can. Now, obviously, the shorter your time frame, the more sacrifices in the short term, the longer your time frame, the less. It's not the only way. I prefer to make money than I do save money. I prefer to. I'll just think, look, it's easier to go and make an extra 100 grand in a year than it is to nickel and dime myself over trying to get my expenses down, a few pounds and pence here and there. But the biggest trap is you get paid a bit more, you know, oh, we'll just go on a slightly nicer holiday and we'll just upgrade our car. And all of a sudden all that you've earned and more has gone because, you know, you think, I'll get a five grand pay rise. Well, you'll get net three out of that. And then if you're still paying off your student loan, you might get net half. That's only 200 pounds a month. Five grand a year net to use 200 pounds a month. That's not a lot. That is just like one engine bigger on a Mercedes that you end up getting on a lease.

Yeah.

So you just have to be careful there.

I've always, the way I've always looked at it is what are my big expenses? So essentially it'd be where I live, my car and then holidays is probably like the only big, like expensive thing. Like I don't buy anything design or anything like that. So in terms of pleasure, that tends to be the biggest expense. And as long as those are okay, I'm all right. Look, I'm not one of these who like never go get a coffee. It's like, well, if I want a.

Starbucks, I'm gonna go get you pay for in Dubai.

No, they're free because.

Yeah, yeah, Golden Visa.

Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, I definitely can't afford them either. My mum's going to watch this.

Well, you just did. You didn't admit it.

So.

Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I'll bail you out, bail you out of this one. Right now we have a banking crisis, a potential global recession. Billionaires selling all of their assets to be liquid to cash in on the crash. Banks going bust and taxes going up. If you'd like to learn how to cash in on the crash and not just survive, but thrive in challenging times, I invite you to join us at the Money Maker Summit Live. The link is robmore Live Money. I'm subsidizing a small number of tickets from my Rob Moore foundation. Or for a very small upgrade fee, you can get special VIP tickets where you Meet me personally. You'll get your book signed. There's a VIP dinner with six multimillionaires, there's champagne reception Q&As with three or four panel millionaires and bonus money mindset sessions, as well as the special three days on getting your tax bill down, your income streams up, my eight stages of building wealth, my formula for riches and much more content at robmore Live Money the agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link. Rob Moore, Life Money Gold is predicted to go up to $3,000 an ounce by bank of America. That's a 50% increase in a very short time. Gold and silver have gone through the roof recently with all this news of an impending recession, depression or crash. I'm also very excited to announce a brand new and long term partnership with Direct Bullion. This is not an ad or an affiliate link, this is a long term partnership. The owner of Direct Bullion has actually been a fan of my show for many years and myself and Nigel Farage have become the ambassadors for Direct Bullion. If you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get the very best spot or under prices on silver and gold. You can learn about how to invest in silver and gold from the people who I buy gold from and who mentor me on my silver and gold investing. You can also buy gold and silver in your pension, which is something that a lot of people do don't know about. So to save me answering the thousands of questions I get about investing in silver and gold, simply go to robmore.directbullion.com I mean if you drink three coffees a day like I do and I have 12 shots a day and they're eight quid a pop in Dubai as £24 a day, that over 10 years is a hell of a lot of money. So it does depend where you spend the money. But what you're saying is you look at your biggest three overheads and try and keep them low pretty much so you don't have to nickel and dime over not being able to buy a coffee or a sandwich or whatever. Yeah, and, and, and then if, but then alternatively if you stop getting takeaways three or four times a week and you make your own coffee from home, which is probably better anyway, you can save quite a lot of money. And when you compound it over a long time, that's when you really start to see the saving or the benefit.

Jo I.

This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension Gold investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invest in things that I invest into and gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com.

I don't necessarily see like degrees and sacrifice, but like numbers of times. So if you said to me like Kane, like you really have to save some money. You can't go out for coffee. And every single day I'm like, fuck, I want a coffee. Why can't I have one? That is more sort of psychological pain than if you go, you need to live in a smaller house or you, you have to have a cheaper car. Joan so like my house back home was 500 pound a month mortgage. We worked together four years before I got the M4 and even when I got that it was the cheapest one in the country and I looked for ages for it, whereas I would never think twice like, oh, if I want to go out for dinner or go for coffee, I will always go and do those things. Yeah, I guess it's finding what works. But I'm not a big advocate. You see like a Dave Ramsey or like a, what's his name? Stephen Graham or Stephen Graham, the American guy. Yeah. Always have coffee at home because it's like 20p that I don't want to now.

Well, it depends where you start from. I'm going to buy my Coffee where I want, when I want. In fact, I've got a rather expensive coffee making machine which I take around the world with me.

Do you?

Yes, because I am, as you know, I am addicted. Yeah, Very much to coffee. But I, I'm wildly productive on coffee. So kind of like a bit of a magic drug for me. So for. So I would probably look at what's important to you and whatever's important to you, spend your money on and don't waste it on all the other shit that isn't important to you. Like if, if you're young, stay living at home for a while, no problem. If, if a car isn't important to you, just have a run around. But the point is that money that you don't spend, I don't say save, I say store. That money that you don't spend, you invest. So that's point three. So you start early, you keep the expenses as low as you can, which means each month you've got a stack of money to invest and then three, you invest. You can never save your way to wealth. Savers are losers. Savings are degradings. The only way you can ever get rich is investing. Either investing your time into your own company or investing your money into assets. It's the only way you get rich. You cannot get rich hoarding money or saving money because inflation historically is higher than the interest that you'll get in the bank. Therefore you're losing your money like slow Chinese water torch. What are the.

This is so vivid. What are the best investment vehicles if you're looking for retirement? So something that's actually going to pay me each month.

Oh, property, real estate. So if you imagine a triangle and at the top it has the letter I, the bottom left is the letter C, the bottom right is the letter E. So this is my model.

Go get the editor.

Absolutely. So maybe Kelsey will do this for us. So simple triangle. I at the top, C bottom left, E bottom right, ice. Okay. So all, all assets will have one or more I, C or E. If you imagine like a third eye in the middle of the triangle or like a sweet spot, that would be if you had I, C and D. So I'll share that towards the end because I think it links to one of the points. But don't let me forget it. The if you have one, if you have C only, it's a long term store of wealth. If you have E, it means you've bought it well, but that doesn't mean it's going to go up, up in value and An I is the recurring element. But we'll come back to ice.

Okay, what's number four?

Okay, so we're on number three, which is in invest. You said what's the best assets? I said ideally all three of ice. So property has all three. Real estate has all three. The stock market I would say has two. But at times in the cycle three, gold has one, bitcoin has one, businesses can have all three. Watches has won maybe one and a half. So I'd probably say the best three long term wealth is running a successful business, owning real estate and investing in the stock market through the fund I mentioned earlier. Now, of course, all the kids are going to argue with me that bitcoin is better. It's just not got that much history. Gold existed before the big bang and bitcoin, what isn't even 15 years old yet. So you have to be careful. And, and like, you know, people say buying the dips, I agree with something that, you know, is long term proven. So silver price just dropped quite a lot recently. Silver price is back below 1975 price. So some people like, why would you invest in silver? Well, silver has got as long as history as gold, so it's going to recover. So if you want the E part of ice, the goal is to buy something that short term is low but long term will recover. But some things that you buy short term, that's cheap is because it's going to go bust and go to zero. So you have to be careful with that. Okay, so on the invest, number three, you want to invest as much of your money as you can as early as you can and keep reinvesting all the profits you make. If your goal is to retire early. Okay, number four then I've just kind of mentioned it, is you reinvest what you make because that's how you speed up, compounding. So if you just invest and then draw the profit, and then invest and then draw the profit, the growth will be significantly slower than if you reinvest the, the dividends, the drawings, because essentially your capital pot will grow. And the more your capital pot grows, the more your capital pot grows. And the bigger your capital pot, the more your income stream because the more shares of something you can own, the, the, the more assets you own. So anything you invest, if you're looking for early retirement, you don't touch and you don't even draw the income. You just keep pumping it back. We went to Starbucks because this is what, fourth episode today or fifth episode today, Whatever. And you know, I told you that we're buying a couple of buildings at the moment. And I said, well, you know, we. We've got this 20 million project that we've just done and it's pumping out a load of money and Mark and I have got cash and I'll just end up giving it all back to my business partner just to go again and buy more real estate. And then in three years we'll get all the money back and then he'll come to me and he'll say, oh, let's go again, and we'll buy more and just keep pumping all the profits back. I'd only buy watches and cars with it. You know, I'd be like the. The Mini Andrew tate. I'd have 12 supercars, 15 supercars, 60 supercars. I'd just buy. Just buy cars and watches. So that's another great thing about investing, is you protect your money from yourself. Spending.

That's why I work so much.

Yeah. Well, that's it. Because you've got time to spend the money.

I get bored.

Yeah. Because often the biggest threat to your wealth is not your asset going down, it's you spunking it.

Yeah.

You wasting it, you chasing. Get rich quick. You getting a bit excited. So, I mean. Yeah. Working hard means you don't have much time to spend it. Reinvesting it means you're protecting it from yourself. So that's number four, reinvest the dividends and the profits. Number five is, is you can speed it up by partnering with someone or using other people's money. So I have a property in Peterborough City centre, which was the old City Club, which was an old private member's club that we developed into 42 units and that was fully funded by a partner. And he gets half and we get half. And at that time we needed to raise the money because we didn't have it liquid ourselves. So if you raise money to buy real estate or to start a business. Yeah. Okay. You might give away up to half of the money you make, but you can own assets that you wouldn't have otherwise been able to own or you can own them quicker.

Does your opinion on raising money differ from property to a business?

Yeah. Yeah. I'd be more inclined to raise money for property more quickly than I would to give away half of the ownership of my company.

Because that growth is exponential. Right. Potentially of a company.

Well, the thing with properties, it's quite expensive to start. So if you want to buy. If you want to own millions of pounds worth of property, the way to speed that up is to use other people's money. And if you don't use other people's money, it's really slow. Whereas you can grow a business much quicker on your own. So you giving away half your property portfolio that you wouldn't have been able to buy on your own, well, that's fine. But you giving away half your company just to make it go a bit quicker when you could have grown it that way pretty quickly anyway, that's a different story. So I have a business partner like you, so I'm already giving away 50, although I don't. I see it as I'm gaining, not giving away. But no, we haven't sold any shares. And if we want to grow, we just invest some of our own money. Let's say. Let's say I wanted 5 million for growth, just go and do 5 more million in revenue this year and then reinvest it. Reinvest the cash flow. So, yeah, I, I think too many people are too quick to want to give away shares in their company. I think if you need a load of money for machinery tooling, you know, like James Dyson, I think he got 10 million into debt because you've got to design this piece of engineering. So for those people who haven't got any of that yet, you're going to need money for that. But I probably wouldn't be looking to raise money for marketing. And if you're an information business or you're a content creator, just go sell some of your stuff.

Boom.

All right, so we're on number six. So we've covered. Start early, keep your overhead low, so you've got maximum to invest, then invest and then reinvest profits and then speed up using other people's money. And we've got. If we've got to do the ICE formula. So number six is make sure that what you do, you can increase your upside in revenue. So if you're, if you've got an admin job or an operational job, your only real increase in revenue is an inflation or slightly overinflation pay rise. That's it. Whereas you're. If you're in sales or you're in marketing or you run your own business, you've got no ceiling on the upside of what you could earn.

That was my approach when I asked you for a job.

So tell us the story.

Well, we'll hide the Starbucks cup. Well, we, we may have told on the podcast before, but 10 years ago, I used to serve you coffee at Costa Coffee, but I was. I'd originally served you and then sort of disappeared for a few years to go fuck about at university, which is a complete waste of time, but that's a whole nother story. And then when I realized I don't want to use my degree, thought, who is the richest person I know of? I would say I knew you, we spoke a bit in the morning, but I didn't know you. So I thought it was, what do I have to lose? So I dropped you a message looking for a job. And I specifically wanted a sales job for that reason because I had a bit of a fright doing some work experience. I did a law degree and there was a girl in the mail room because my first day, clearly I was trying to get me to earn my stripes. They go, cool, you spend the day in the mail room. And she was 29, went to the same university as I did. I would have said probably objectively more intelligent, at least academically. I thought, I'm not in the mail room in 8, 9 years earning minimum wage. And then even when you went through to the. The other departments, people were earning okay money, but doing the same contract stamp over and over and over again. I thought, there's no way to really get rich if you're just being paid for your hands rather than your outcome.

Yeah.

And I must have read a few books. I read Money, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

And you wrote Money.

Oh, no, some toss up from Peterborough. Kane Baron. Yeah.

Rob Moore wrote the book. Moore.

He did, actually. I listened to it on the train.

Yeah.

Going back home. And I think that's what gave me the idea to message you.

Yeah.

Because, well, with sales, it's the best profession in the world.

Yeah.

I can be a complete idiot with no qualifications, but if I'm good at taking money from other people, I get a percentage of it. Fucking amazing. Yeah. So that was always my go is sales live off of base salary, any big expenditures, great, you've got commission there, but that's the money to actually start investing with.

Yeah.

And it panned out.

Yeah, panned out very well. Here you are in Dubai, living the dream.

Something like that. Thanks to you.

Pleasure. My pleasure. So, yes, number six is make sure you're in a job where there is no ceiling on the upside. And that's usually in sales or marketing or any job where you can drive revenue up, I. E. Not administrative, clerical, operational, those. You got no drive on the revenue. So you either start your own business or you get into sales, marketing, that, that kind of vocation and then work some overtime and go and ask for the most expensive product you can sell, I've got some friends out here, they're selling 400, 000 pound high fives. So even if their commission is just 10, they're going to get 40 grand a sale. How many of them do they need to do a year? Not many. So that's stage six, because obviously then you can lump big lumps of money into your investment. And in stage seven is you've got to adjust your numbers over time with inflation. Okay, so I think you said, you think you did some grok research, but I think you said in 20 years the value of money is halved. Yeah, well it, it went down 32 in five years after lockdown. So in after lockdown, just in that five year period, your money is worth 1/3 less, which means you need to factor that in when you're thinking about what's the capital lump. And I always like to overestimate the downside, underestimate the upside. So then I'm pleasantly surprised. And based on that, I would probably say that most people who've got 20 years plus left in their life should probably be targeting a capital asset base of 10 million pounds. And then on a net 5%, because if we can go, if we can go on 8% gross, you can probably net at 5%, that's 500 grand a year. Now, even if that didn't, 500 grand a year now will be 250 grand a year in 35, 40 years, whatever. Maybe less actually with inflation, but it's still probably a lot of money. And by the time you get to 10 million you're probably going to think, oh, I'll just keep nudging it up a bit. But at least then you have a choice. Now get to 10 million in the stock market is going to take time. Probably the quickest way to do it would be in building a business. But that's the highest risk because the statistics of businesses going bust within the first year and then the next three, and then the next three and then the, the next ten. You know, it's like almost like a 90 drop off rate each time. So. But what I like about business is I'm in control and I will not quit until I'm making money. And if this business is not going to work, I've got the ability to adapt, be agile, pivot is the big word, and move into another industry. You know, you've moved kind of, you're still in podcasting, but you've also evolved into sponsorship. You know, and I was in property Investing, and then I evolved into property training, then I evolved into business training, and now. Then I evolved into content and podcasting, and now I'm sort of evolving into more global recurring revenue with money school. So they're doing similar things, but you just allow yourself to be like water instead of being rigid. And at some point on that journey, here's the thing. Let's say your goal is right, I've listened to this Rob Kane. I'm happy. I'm going to put all my disposable income into the stock market and. And I'm going to start my business. And then anytime I make lumps, I'm going to buy a property. And my goal in 10 years is to hit 10 million net capital base. Three or four years in there or at some point along your journey, you're going to get a big opportunity. It's going to come. You're going to get a crash and you're going to be able to buy cheap property, or a business opportunity is going to come and you're like, holy AI in. So on that 10 years, you're going to have a couple of points at least where you can really speed it up. There you go. Job done. How to retire by age 35 or 45 or 55 or 65, I. E. In 10 years or less, in seven simple steps. Ice, ice. So let's draw this triangle again.

One of these. Yeah, There you go, Kelsey, you can put that on there. Also the top.

Yeah. At the top is income, right, that's I. Bottom left is capital, that C. And then bottom right is equity, that's E. So gold, you buy it at its fixed capital price. So there's C. But you don't get income from gold. You just get capital. Now, if the capital goes up, you can then sell it, but then you don't have the asset anymore. So gold is a good store. Like one of my gold mentors, he says, I don't see out gold as an asset. I see it as a good storage facility for my money to protect it from inflation. I do see it as an investment because it's better than having cash. So capital is the physical value of it. So when you buy bitcoin, there is no income from bitcoin. You don't get paid a daily, a daily, weekly, monthly dividend. There's just capital. You cannot buy gold from anything under spot price, really, unless you take a massive risk or you buy a massive load of bulk. If you've got 5% of the retail price of gold, you're doing well you do not. You cannot buy Bitcoin under its actual price today. So there is no equity. So that's the E. The E is equity. When I was buying Rolex Daytonas from bankers who were going bust in 2008, the Rolexes might have been worth six and a half and I was buying them for five, so there was some equity in there. Bought them for five, they're worth six and a half. I can buy a property 20, 25%, sometimes more under its valuation price. So there's 20 to 25 equity. You can't buy stocks under their today price, but you can buy them under what you think their long term value is. Warren Buffett calls it value investing. So real estate has capital because you've owned the physical asset. It goes up but it also has equity because you can buy it cheaper. Gold has capital, no equity. Maybe a 2 or 3%. Watches really have capital, a tiny bit of equity if you buy them well and you know them well. Stock market has income because stock market gets dividend income. So stock market has capital and income but no real equity. But property, real estate has income from the rent, capital from the value going up and equity because you bought it well or you added value. Now the only other asset I know that has income, capital and equity. My magical third eyed triad is a business if it's run well. So a business has income because you can pay a salary or a dividend or a drawing. It has capital in the sense that that business is worth something. You can sell it one day and it has equity because you started with nothing and you made it worth a million, 2 million, 5 million. So that's the capital is also the equity. Of course you can sell shares and release your shares, which is essentially equity. Because there's two ways to raise money. For property they call it debt. Sorry, for business they call it debt or equity. If I sell 30% to you, you pay me for equity in my company and I've sold equity. So real estate and business have all three ice. Most others have one or two. That's my little formula. So I need to trademark it and patent it.

You should Rob's ice good IP formula. So I suppose the question people be thinking is which one do I do if I'm looking to retire? Are there any variables that somebody should consider before picking the path of do I go into business or do I go into property? Because most people are probably going to pick one.

Well, if you want to speed it up, go into business and the day you want to retire, sell the business and then retire. Because like a 500 grand property today is worth 500 grand. You can't really. You can force it up by doing a refurb to maybe 550. You could develop it and make it worth a million, but that might take two or three years and a couple of hundred grand spend. So it's hard to force the value of something that is quite measurable and known. You can't force the value of gold up. Gold is gold price. You can't force the value of bitcoin up. Bitcoin is bitcoin price. When you actually, you know, when you like ice out a watch, that actually drops the value. You know, when you add all these modifications to a car, that often drops the value. So really the thing that you can force the fastest growth on is, is either a rundown property that you know how to deal with, but probably much more Exponential is a business, but then you're working in it. Whereas when you buy a property, as soon as you've got the tenant in and it's rented, all you're doing is checking in with the management agent or the letting agent. So I would say to get to your retirement age or number quicker, it's a business, but to retire, it's a property portfolio.

Boom.

I mean, like, try and find me a really rich person that doesn't own any property. Now some people say, oh, no, they made their money in tech. Yeah. Where they park their money. Because I have my four M's for making money. Because people always ask me, how do you make money? Well, I say, it depends. If you're in debt, you've got the first M, which is you've got to start making it. Then if you're making some, it's the second M, which means you've got to manage it. And then if you're making some and managing some, then you might want to multiply it. And then when you've got a lot, your job is to maintain it, that is not go bust, not pay millions in tax. So depending if you're in debt or you're 10 years in, depends, make, manage, multiply, maintain. And real estate is multiply, maintain, make is business.

Foreign.

This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. Foreign. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. It.