https://www.listennotes.com/e/9402802db6a4469f837bf2f053f2ff3b

Welcome to More Money Secrets, where we talk all things money. So I'm Rob Moore, I have the podcast Money. And I wrote the UK's best selling book on money called Money. And this is Harry, who's head producer of all my brands.

Right. So I came across an article and a debate about how much money you need to be happy.

I just want more than they tell you.

And there was some interesting stats and things I came across and I thought this would be a fascinating conversation to have.

Let's do it.

So the first thing I want to know is what was the moment in life you felt rich?

I think when I bought my Ferrari F430 Spider for cash. So I'd gone from owning my first house, but it was really small with a relatively high mortgage. So even though I was a homeowner, I didn't feel rich. I started a business. But you know, when you start your business, you're often putting more in than out and you can't take a big salary or drawings necessarily straight away. But I think I was in my late 20s, early 30s, where I bought a Ferrari 430 Spider, which was one of my, say, top five dream cars, and bought it for cash. And then I felt like probably only rich people can do that. So it's weird because it's not that owning a supercar is what it is to be rich, because there's rich, there's wealthy, and wealth probably has more health and holistic well being in it because actually the word wealth comes from wheel and wheel means well being. So there's wealth and there's rich and I see them as different and most people don't understand the difference. So to me, rich is having fuck you money. That is, if you don't want to do anything, you can say fuck you or you can buy a supercar for cash. So that is when I felt rich. And like I said I was, I was probably, like I said, either side of 30, which is 14 years ago. But as I've aged like a fine wine, I probably value wealth more than riches now. But that's. I remember picking it up. So Mark drove us there. No. So I remember picking it up. Now, you know my business partner Mark really well. For anyone that doesn't, he's a tight bastard. And we had arranged to go and look at this Ferrari, Ferrari 430 Spider dream car. And I knew he wouldn't buy it on the day and we'd been researching forever, so I ordered us a taxi to go to the dealer, which was like 80 miles away because I know if he drove he wouldn't buy it. So I ordered a taxi to go. So we had no car to come back in. So I figured if we could buy the Ferrari there and then we'd come back in that it actually worked. So we went to this dealership. I remember it's in Derby. Felix owned the dealership and we were in looking at these Ferraris and I was just drooling all over them. My mark said, you off over there, go and look at those old Bentleys and let me do the negotiation. So he sent me out down the road courtyard to just have a go and look at all the other cars while he shut the door and negotiated with this guy and he sweated him out. It was like he was negotiating in a sauna. And I think it was on for like 90 grand. And I think we got it for about 75 cash down, bought it there and then and drove off with it. And I remember it was, it's the old H gate manual. And Mark drove like we'd nicked it. He just caned the thing roof down springtime. And yet in that moment I did think, wow, we've just bought this supercar for cash.

I feel rich. So you didn't feel rich before you were a millionaire?

Well, you can be a net worth millionaire and not necessarily be really liquid. And also a million, a millionaire, a million now is not a massive amount of money. So if you think about it, it was a thing to be a millionaire 50 years ago, but with inflation and the cost of living crisis and everything else, to be a millionaire. Now you can be a millionaire and not be that financially free.

Yeah.

So financially free, net worth millionaire, they're different things. Now I became a millionaire but right at the end of age 30, now I became a millionaire just bridging between age 30 and 31. And I remember that clearly because I was a bit frustrated because my goal was to be a millionaire by 30 and I just was on the back end of 30, 31. But maybe people tell you, you know, when you become a millionaire, your life will be great. You'll be bathing in 50 pound notes and hundred dollar bills. That wasn't the case for me. I remember talking to Mark, working out our net worth statements because we used to do it every six months back then. And like, wow, I am a net worth millionaire by proper definition because some people define millionaire as assets. But you could have 1 million of assets and 1.2 million of debt, you're not a millionaire. A net worth millionaire by definition Is net assets after debt 1 million or more. And I remember having this spreadsheet and all my assets and everything on it and I was a net worth millionaire, but I wasn't making 100 grand a month net. The company was probably doing around that. So I became a millionaire and I'm like, okay, next, next. So then you get to 5 million, 10 million, 20 million, maybe 50 million. And then you're like next. Because people have this fantasy that when they become a millionaire and travel the world and you know, have passive income and make money just from their phone, but it's just like snakes and ladders, it's just levels.

Right, so I've got some stats here. I'm going to ask you some questions and it'll be interesting to get your feedback on these because I was very shocked by these stats. If you want to be in the top 50% of earners in the UK, how much do you think a year you have to make?

Top 50%. So top half, 35 grand.

£26,000.

Yeah. Nothing.

I was, yeah, shocked by that. If you want to be in the top 75%, guess how much you have to earn.

45 grand.

Close 41. If you want to be in the top 5%, guess what it is.

85 grand.

Just off 84,000. And if you want to be in.

The top 1%, 150 grand.

One hundred and seventy five. I was outstanding. I thought those numbers would be way, way higher. What's your thought on that?

Well, clearly you can see from my answers. I know that it's not because most people unfortunately are broke. So you know, people talk about to be in the top percentiles, but it doesn't really mean anything to me. What means something is am I making enough money so that I can be adding value to a lot of people. I can be buying my time back. I could be doing a lot for charity, can have a meaningful vision and mission. No, that doesn't surprise me at all. No. And remember, like I said, a million now is not what it was 50 years ago. You can't retire on a million. You can't. So first off, you've got to save a million capital. Now you can be a net worth millionaire before you've got a million in capital. So you probably need to be worth 5 to 10 million to be able to access a million in capital. You take that million in capital, you invest it well for a passive return, you're looking at 5 to 8%. Let's go on the low 5%. That's 50 grand. 50 grand a year, that's nothing. Especially with inflation in double digits, it's nothing. So if there's anything that we can take from this start, this discussion is a million is not a million. And people always ask me, how much do you need to be rich? Rich? It's 10, it's 10 million and in 30 years it'll be 15 or 20 million. Because I know when I got to 10 million net worth, I was like, right, I've got multiple streams of income, I've got loads of assets, I can access millions in capital, I could get tens of millions in loans, I've got X amount of cars and watches and properties and businesses. So I would say 10 million is the new million.

Do you know what the BBC said?

What the fuck does the BBC know about being rich?

The BBC says you need to make at least £33,864 a year to be happy.

I mean, where do I even start with this? So, first off, you have happiness and you have money and they are unrelated subjects, topics and matters in life. So you can be happy and rich, happy and broke. You can be unhappy and rich, unhappy and broke. So for BBC to say you need to have at least £33,000 to be happy, assuming that that quote is accurate, they have linked money and happiness. So you could be a billionaire, but you're estranged from your loved ones, you've got cancer and you've got millions of haters and you can be unhappy. You can be in a developing country with scarce resources and kicking a football in a desert and you can be happy. That being said, most people who are broke are unhappy and a lot of people who are rich are unhappy. And that is because people who are broke think when you're rich you'll be happy. And people who are rich haven't separated money and happiness. So the trick to being happy is to be present in the moment. So I'm happy right now because I'm enjoying this discussion. Now, if I was thinking about painful things in the past, that would be guilt and shame. And if I was thinking about worrying things in the future, you know, that would be anxiety and fear. And so past and future thinking is where most, if not all of our unhappiness lies. And I think the trick when it comes to wealth, because remember, rich is money, wealth is overall well being. The trick for wealth is to strive for more, but be content and grateful. Now, it is to serve as many people as possible and also meet your own selfish needs. It is to charge handsomely, but Offer high value for your fees. And it's the paradoxical balance of all these opposing forces. Now, I've just agreed to buy my wife an Aston Martin dbs, as you know, and I might get to drive it a bit. Does that make me happy? Yes. It's her favourite car. She, she's going to be really happy. I'm happy when she's happy. I'm grateful that I'm able to do it. So when people say money doesn't buy happiness, money does buy fleeting positive emotions, money doesn't buy fulfillment, but it does buy fleeting happiness. And am I happier that I can buy my wife and Aston Martin DBS and not have a drive a 23 year old Ford Fiesta? Yeah, I am much happier for that. But I also know the hustle, the graft, the challenges that I had to sacrifice along the way to be able to do them.

Could you be happy on 33 grand a year?

No. No, I don't think I could. Because for me, and by the way, I'm not disrespecting anyone who's on 33 grand a year because you may have had a hard upbringing, money may not be important to you, you may love your job that pays that money. So. But me personally, no, because with what I do, being an entrepreneur, my income is directly linked to the value I produce and my own self worth. So if I'm only earning 33 grand a year as an entrepreneur, I'm not providing much value and therefore I'm not feeling that great about myself. So no, I wouldn't be happy on that.

Something I've learned from you and from Mark and kind of just my general progression through life and career is that I don't really see money as currency anymore. I see it as value and it's a tool. And the more value you bring, the more value you get in money. What do you think about that?

Yeah. So there's many definitions of money and currency is a form of money. If people want to make more money, the best way to see money is an exchange of value, universally agreed. That is if I give you something that you perceive to be valuable, you're going to pay me in exchange, you're not going to pay more than it's worth and hopefully I'm not going to allow you to pay less than it's worth. So our own value we are producing or not producing goes into a form of exchange. I actually created a formula for this and it's explained in my book. Money wealth equals perceived value plus fair exchange times leverage. So wealth increases when perceived value is high, exchange is fair and leverage is vast. So let me just explain those three. You like to buy cars, you're building your car collection.

Yeah.

So you will pay what you perceive that car is worth. You won't pay more, you won't pay less. In fact, if you pay less, you'll think it's a bargain. And if you pay more, you'll feel ripped off. So the fair exchange, the middle part is where the seller thinks, I made a bit of money on that, I'm happy. The buyer thinks, I've got a fair deal on that. I'm happy. Now by the way, when you have the sweet spot of fair exchange, happy buyer, happy seller, you have win, win. And then you can scale because you're going to go, oh, I bought this car for Rob, it's a nice car. I've got a fair deal going to say, Harry's a customer of mine, you know, we did a good deal. I'm happy. He's a good customer to deal with because by the way, people think the customer is always right. No, they're not. And if the customer is twat, the seller will go around telling everyone, don't deal with that customer. And if the seller is not giving fair value or ripping off the buyers, the buyer will go, don't go and deal with that seller. When you have fair exchange, everyone goes and talks about it. So you get these referrals. Now let's go back to perceived value. This is a watch. Do you have any idea how much this is worth?

I could guess. Have a guess in the six figures.

Okay, so this tells the time in an inferior way to a Casio digital watch. Like a Casio digital watch I think is probably more accurate than this or at least definitely the clock on your phone because that's going to be linked up to some atomic clock somewhere. So this potentially doesn't keep the time as well as a Casio, which you might buy for $30. It also needs maintaining because it has manual parts. Actually needs a service every few years, but at peak this was worth about £150,000. So you can have a 30 pound watch that tells the time or £150,000 watch that tells the time. What's the difference? The difference is in how one perceives the value of a Patek Philippe over perceives the value of a Casio. Now by the way, one can, I didn't pay 150 for this. I got this for good money. But I feel like I got value in this because one it may appreciate. Two, it will outlive me. Three, I may pass it to my son, who may pass it to his son. Four, I know that Patek Philippe have artisan watchmakers. I know that anyone who recognizes a Patek Philippe, you know, is probably got a lot of commonality with me. We're maybe going to be able to do business together. It's like the best form of business card card. So I can easily justify the value of this. That's perceived value. So wealth equals perceived value plus fair exchange times leverage. If Patek Philippe sold one of them, they're going to make, let's say they make a 20 margin. Well, actually new, these are less than second hand because of the gray market and the waiting list. But let's say, let's just call it round. Let's just round it up. 100 grand. Let's say Patek Philippe have a 20% margin. So they make 20 grand if they sell one. They make 20 grand if they sell a thousand. If they sell 100,000. You know how many of these have Apple sold? Millions. Tens of millions, Hundreds of millions. So a lot of people who start in business, they don't have the leverage, they don't have the customer base. They're not going viral on social media. So yeah, that's my little formula for wealth.

It's interesting what you said about watches then, it almost being a business card. I think that's kind of the best way to sum it up. Recently you had a world class conversation with Matt Goss, the singer of the hit band Bros. And as soon as you walked into that room, within like 30 seconds, you were both talking about watches and you both hit it off instantly. And that I think allowed you to have the connection which went on to have that great conversation. So it's interesting what you said. Why do watches kind of open that door into like someone's personality and their soul?

Well, first off, I would say if you've got a relatively low amount of money to invest, that is not quite enough to buy a property yet or start a business. Putting that money into a watch, I believe to be a great investment. So let's say you can afford a Rolex. So the good entry point, the most ubiquitous watch brand, one, anyone who wears a good watch, you can make some assumptions. They're not necessarily right, but you can make some assumptions. Number one, they've got money. Number two, they understand the value of a watch. They've probably run a successful business, probably, or they've earned good money. And so the thing with a Watch is. It's something that you can see. I don't really think many people get watches on credit. Probably more people have finance on a car than a watch, so maybe the assumption is it's been bought outright. But if I knew you played a sport and I played that sport, we'll have a common interest. If I'm wearing a nice watch and you're interested in watches, we have a common interest. So it's that immediate common interest. And with watch brands, you've got the entry level like Rolex, but then you've got Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, and then you've got the boutique ones like FP Jean and Urwerk. And as you go up this chain of watch brands, generally the people who know the higher brands are very successful, very interested in what it is to own a nice watch. It's most men's only form of jewellery. But the most important thing is it starts that conversation. I remember someone saying that all a Lamborghini does if you want to go and date a woman, is start the conversation. So you turn up in the Lambo, you're probably going to be able to start that conversation with the woman you might be interested in. But there's no guarantee that you're getting on a date or you're going further down the line. So the Lambo just opens the door to the conversation that you might otherwise not be able to open the door to. That's what a good watch does.

I've got a video for you. That's why you watch it. Let's have a look.

Well, first off, I love Shaq and we need Shaq on the show.

Hell, yeah.

So. So the difference between being rich and being wealthy is wealthy derives from well being, which means you make an abundant amount of money, which leads to your well being. That is you travel because you like to travel. You can invest in health products, you can afford personal trainers, you're living well, you're eating well, you're relatively happy, you enjoy your challenges, you have a meaningful mission in life. And there are other things you could add into the component of wealth, but you are living well. By the way, most people through the generations who have lived well and wealthy were also rich because it's hard to live well when you're broke because you can't afford all the things I said there. Rich is having an abundance of money, which is one form of wealth, just one money. Now, money makes a brilliant servant, but a terrible master. That sounds nice for social media. It ain't about how much you make, it's about how much you keep. It's actually about both, because I know a lot of people who don't have a huge overhead. So they're living a humble life and they're not going into debt, but they never experience true wealth because they don't know how to make big lumps of money. And when you can make big lumps of money, that gives you a sense of confidence. You can go out anywhere at any time. If you go bust, you can relaunch a business or a brand. If you have a challenging situation in your life or there's a lockdown or there's an Inland Revenue investigation or whatever, you can just go and make a lump of money and sort your problems out. So when people say it ain't about how much you make, it's about how much you keep, that's not strictly true. It's about how much you make and how much you keep. Now, making and keeping is completely different. You asked me this on another podcast, didn't you? You said, you know, what's the more valuable skill? Being able to make it or being able to keep it. And they're different. And actually, often it's a different type of person that can make it as can keep it, so shall carry. Okay, stop. I love the way he talked cats with the bag who make a hundred. I might need a translator. So you're absolutely right. There's plenty of people who've developed a really good skill. They're a sports person, they're an artist, they're a musician. And what they've learned is the skill. And the skill is rewarding them with money because they're good, but they don't know how to manage money. So sometimes it's a curse to be really great at something but not know how to manage money. Because if you gave a cat a bag of 100 who's got addictions and voids around money, that money is just going to disappear into those addictions. So I certainly agree. There's plenty of people who can make money, but it goes through their hands like sand. That's because they don't know how to make, manage, multiply, and master money, which is what I teach. Okay, pause. What Shaq talked about, there is actually only stage 101. And what he said is, wealthy people make a hundred and save 75. No, no. Wealthy people make 100 and invest 75 when interest rates are 15%. Saving money is a form of investment, especially if inflation is 2 or 3%. But interest rates being 15% will happen once every 40 years or whatever. You can do your research, but it's a corporate, quite an uncommon thing. And mostly interest rates will be 5%. And in the last 12 plus years, interest rates have been virtually 0%. So I'm sorry to say this, and a lot of people, their content is out of date. Saving makes you broke. You cannot save your way to wealth. Now it's better to save than it is to spend. The purpose of saving is to build a pot so you can immediately invest. So actually what the wealthy do is they make 100, they briefly save it, that is they don't spend it and then they immediately invest it. You can never get rich saving money. In the end, you have to protect money from itself. So money, the money system, what money is, fiat currency is a carnivore of itself. So what money is doing is it's starving and it's eating its own limbs slowly. And if inflation is 10%, it's more. That's at least the hands gone in a year. So money is eating itself. So you have to protect money from itself, which means you earn in the form of money, because that's a universally agreed currency. And then you immediately turn money into a different form of money called an asset. Real estate, watches, a business, maybe crypto, if you're higher on the risk threshold, etc.

Is it better to have one massive payday or decent but monthly reoccurring income?

Multiple streams of income will protect you from irregular shocks, getting fired, lockdowns, parts of your business empire being disrupted. So multiple streams of income is not just a luxury, it's a necessity. And it's as much a protection as it is just having loads of money. But that question depends on a caveat. Would I rather make 20 grand a month getting paid every day or 100 grand a month getting paid on the 30th of every day? Rather have the hundred grand a month. But all things being equal, is probably better to get your money from multiple sources than one. Because one source, one single point of failure, multiple sources, you need all of them to fail. It's like you've got a backup generator. The main generator goes, you've got a backup generator.

I read a Telegraph article and it.

Said, well, that was your first mistake.

Britain is a poor country pretending to be rich. Do you agree?

Yeah, I like that. I mean, the quickest way to go broke is to act and pretend that you're rich. And the national debt in the UK is trillions. And the third highest liability that we pay our taxes on in the UK is repaying interest of national debt. Not capital, only interest. So of all of our tax revenue, the highest source of where that money is spent, not invested, spent, unknown. The second highest source is the nhs, which is broken. The third highest source is interest on national debt. So we're not even paying the capital off, we're only paying the interest on the capital, which means the capital is getting bigger because we're borrowing more and more money and printing more and more money. So in a way, the fiat system is like the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, because in the end the debt gets too big. And in a Ponzi scheme, that people at the top make all the money and the people at the bottom lose all the money. And right now the mass population, they're heating and eating and living, is going up and up and up. Inflation is in double digits, interest rates are now going up, so their debt repayments are going up and up and up, up, and their money is worth less and less and less and less. Yet the people who started the Ponzi scheme, which some people say is a cartel, some people track it back to. Well, I'm going to write about that in my book, Money Matrix, and we'll save it for that. So whatever Britain is trying to do to convince us that we're a nation that we should be proud of and we shouldn't leave, is papering the cracks and putting plaster on what's really going on. And what's really going on is the government's really bloated, there's too many people on the payroll, the economy is in a bad state and it's going to get worse. Inflation is really high and it's not what they tell you. Our method of money is cannibalizing itself. Taxes are going up and up and up. They're almost at the highest point since I think, late 70s, early 80s when it was really high. There's a lack of trust in our system. The way the banking system works profits for the few and takes off the many. Yeah, it's in a. It's in a bad way. But why would it admit those things? Oh, sorry, nation, we're in an unsustainable debt spiral. Our monetary system is a Ponzi scheme. We need you to consume from, we need you to pay maximum tax, we need to you to borrow maximum money that we don't have to create, we just have to print. They're never going to admit that, are they? No.

It's interesting what you said. I mean, I don't Know if it's just because I'm getting older or I just wasn't looking before and now I am. But there's two things I want to just pick up on that, like you talking about the broken NHS system. Last year I had a really bad motorcycle accident, as you know, but I ended up coming off my bike, falling down this ditch and luckily someone saw me and they went down to help me. And at the time I didn't know if I was paralyzed or anything. So I'm just sat there and the geezer's on the phone to the ambulance and he's got it on loudspeaker so I can hear it. And they said, oh, we'll be there in around about eight hours. So I'm lying there thinking, am I even alive? And yeah, the NHS is like, we'll be there in eight hours. And luckily I was alright. I got up, I managed to walk away from it. And then again, just looking at the tax system and you know, the more you move up in the levels in life, in your career, and then you start getting absolutely fucked, you just realize how top to tail basically the entire country is. And is that the money matrix or is that just conspiracy? I don't know.

It's complicated because in defence of current governments, they have inherited a failed and flawed system and they don't get long enough in power to change the system and they don't get rewarded for making long term value based decisions and they don't get rewarded for telling the truth. So it's all very well us blaming governments and world leaders, but the system itself transcends them and they are a product of the system. Which is why I chose to be an entrepreneur, because I can create my own system. You know, we have over a hundred people working in this building and I can say, right, emergency meeting. I can pull us all into our meeting room and I can say, I want you to never lie, I want you to do what's in the best interest of the customer, even if it's not a sale in the moment. And I want you to think 10 years into the future of the difference this business is going to make. I can do that because I have my own free enterprise and I'm grateful to be able to do that and I made the sacrifices to be able to do that and they absolutely can't do that in any government or political system. So nhs, the lockdown just really highlighted and exaggerated all the holes in the bucket of the nhs. It's underfunded, under resourced and it's a failed system that was inherited. Now I pay for health care twice because I pay for the NHS which is the second highest expense in my tax bill. And then I pay for private because I don't trust the nhs. If you'd have been dying, you'd have probably died.

Yeah, yeah. It's fucked, isn't it?

Yeah, you know, so, yeah, so I pay for health care twice. It doesn't really seem right. There's many things in our UK and global economy that I feel needs a complete reform. The monetary system, the banking system, and in the UK the healthcare system is one of them. Now I don't in any way pretend to know enough about healthcare system, you know, that there is the private system, there's the insurance based system, there's other systems, but the NHS is a broken system and I don't trust it. That's why I have to pay private and that. You know I talked earlier about rich and wealthy. If you can afford to pay for private healthcare in the uk, that is a form of wealth because you can afford to pay for your well being. And if you need an emergency operation, you can jump the queue. Because money loves speed and money hates friction. And often people say to me, well, you know, what is money? Or what are some of the benefits of having money over and above cars and houses? Money by speed. If you want to get somewhere quicker, money buys it. If you want to reach a millionaire or billionaire quicker, money can buy it. If you want to get served first or jump a queue, money can buy it. And if you want a life changing operation that you can't get in the nhs, money increases the speed of being able to get it.

Should we do a quick fire?

Sure.

Would you rather be cash rich, asset poor or asset rich, cash poor?

Well, if you were asset rich, you would be income rich. So I'd rather be asset rich and income rich. So one thing you've missed out of the equation is income. Asset is the physical thing you have that produces income. Cash is the capital reserves and income is the streams, the flows. So I'd rather be asset rich and income rich and cash poor.

Would you say you're rich or wealthy?

I'm both. I'm healthy. I think I live a good life. I'm mostly happy. At the drop of a hat, I can pretty much go anywhere in the world, do mostly what I want. I have an amazing family, I have a great team here in my companies. I'm doing useful and valuable things. I mean, I'm an emotional guy. So I have my roller Coaster of emotions. I'm human in that regard, but I have a lot of money and have relatively good well being on both.

What are the traits that made you rich and wealthy?

Wanting to prove myself to the world and experiencing enough pain in my life that I would commit to the challenge of being rich. I wasn't really interested in well being and wealth in my 20s. I didn't really know what it was. I was just interested in being rich. So persistence, consistency, knowing that I deserved to be in the top 0.01%, solving meaningful problems, creating useful products and services, getting really good at sales and marketing to get that product out to as many people as possible. They're some of the traits that made me pretty rich, pretty young.

How did you learn the secrets of money that made you rich?

I learned the secrets of money that made me rich by studying as many rich people as I could, reading their books, going on their courses, attending their seminars, even meeting them, interviewing them on my podcast, and then implementing those into my life and gaining my own experience so that I could create uniqueness. Because the problem when you model the rich too much is you don't feel worthy because they are more wealthy than you. So the secret to being rich is leverage the traits of the greats, stand on the shoulders of the giants and titans of wealth, but then find a way to turn your passion into your profession, your content into cash flow, and your ideas into income.

Final question. If tomorrow was your last day on earth and you knew it, how would you spend your money?

I would sit my family down and I would ask them to carry on with the Rob Moore foundation, helping young and underprivileged people start meaningful businesses that change the world. Then when we'd agreed on the strategy and the amount, then I'd work out who to give the rest of the money to. I'd probably just want to stay in my house with my family. I probably wouldn't want to go anywhere. I definitely want to eat a really meaty final meal. Lots of meat. Fuck the veg.

Five guys.

Five guys. That's our treat. And I'd send a message to everyone that was important to me in my life. That's what I do. Yeah, I'd want my money to live on. Obviously, we all want our legacy to live on, I assume, but I'd want my money to live on as well.

Epic as always, Rob.

Thanks, Harry.

Until the next time.

Until the next time. If you don't risk anything, you risk everything. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media Helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co uk to learn more.