Nigel Farage | Debt Crisis Bigger Than 2008 Will Crash The UK & Western Economies

So, Nigel, can you give us something you haven't told anyone else about what you're planning for the next few years?

No. Yes, you can. No.

Yes, you can.

No, it's all under wraps. Dubai. It's all under wraps. It's an interesting thing, but successful politics is as much about perspiration as it is about inspiration. And right now we're in the boiler room. Zia Youssef, who's become our party chairman, you know, very successful entrepreneur, late 30s, and he and I are working together like crazy to build structure, to build organization.

You mean for your party?

Yeah, to get people trained. Yeah. So a lot of what I'm planning to do in the next few years relies upon having the network and the structure built. Yeah. And that's what I'm doing at the moment. That takes up most of my time at the moment. And if we get that bit right, then you just watch us, all right?

And we will. Are you as bearish about the future of the economy as I am?

The funny thing is, however hard government makes things, there are still people out there that are ducking and diving and trying and doing their bit, like most of my listeners. But. Yeah, no, and look, we shouldn't be put off from doing that. Of course we shouldn't. It's just gonna be harder. Yeah, you're going to be taxed more. It's going to be harder. What I am certain of is that we will have five more years of continued overall decline. There are people within the system that will do well, but I'm afraid the average Joe will not do well. And the average Joe will get poorer. And I find it depressing. I thought that Brexit was the big opportunity to really re engage with the entrepreneurial side of our country been squandered by both parties, frankly. I mean, everything from financial services regulation to our fisheries. We've not seized a single opportunity. And that's very disappointing. I think the big one, the really big one is this. If you think about the credit crunch that happened in 089, at the root of it was too much debt. Too much debt nationally, too much debt corporately, too much debt individually. And it's sort of the epicenter was the mortgage market in America. But that was symptomatic of a bigger, broader problem. Well, indebtedness now is way bigger than it was in 2008. 9. And I do think at some point in time, there comes a bit of a reckoning for Western economies and there will be another financial crash. I can't tell you when it's going to be. If I knew it was next Wednesday, I'd walk out of here right now and start trading. But I don't know when it's going to come. But I do think a reckoning is coming at some point in time and I think when that happens, I think the sort of political realignments that we're seeing beginning to happen already across the west will increase in pace.

What do you mean by political realignment?

Oh, I think that the corporatist center left view of big state, high taxes, which has prevailed for a very, very long time, which, by the way, for the rich, has been fantastic asset growth, quantitative easing. The rich have got richer hugely in the last 10 to 15 years.

But I think you mean super rich. The super rich, yeah, because they're defining people on 150 grand as rich.

I meant the asset rich. If you've had property or stocks, the last 15 years have been a dream and part of that's been because of these policies of quantitative easing, creating false money, basically. No, I think there's a very big political reckoning to come. I think that. I think that for your middle income skilled worker, the things they could afford 10 years ago, 20 years ago, they can't afford now. I think their kids just look on with a sense of helplessness. I mean, if you're young, 18 year old, leaving school, you're ambitious and want to work hard, how are you going to buy a house? Where's the money coming from? It really is difficult. So I think there will be a big political reaction to this at some point in time. I think that, I think that, albeit with debt, but I think that the economic circumstances that Trump produced in his first in those four years in America, that's what people are hungry for.

Yeah. I want to talk about Trump in a bit as well, but I do want to talk about this millionaire exodus, this entrepreneur exodus from the uk. So since lockdown, the amount of millionaires that have left the UK seem to have doubled every year, plus or minus a bit. And every entrepreneur I speak to, bar none, is either saying, I can't leave, but if I didn't have my children and my parents here, I would, or I'm trying to figure it out or I'm already gone. And I know a lot of entrepreneurs and every single one saying the same thing.

Isn't it bizarre that in the European Union, where it's against the rules, Milan and Lisbon are bidding for British people to go there with tax deals?

Yeah, I mean, it's very clever in A way, very clever come to us.

The non dom's going. I mean there are downsides to non doms, which is they push London property prices up more than they maybe needed to do. But the upsides are they spend their money. Yeah, they spend their money.

Why wouldn't we want all the rich.

People here and yeah, and they pay tax here, create loads of jobs. That exodus has been going on for some time. Similarly with those that are very wealthy. There were concerns a wealth tax would get brought in. It didn't. I never thought it would. But still they feel the whole message, the whole mood music isn't very positive. My biggest worry actually are the 30 somethings, the people that are setting up businesses, the entrepreneur. I mean, if you're in tech, right, say you work in tech, why be in London, why be in Manchester, why not be in Lisbon? I mean you can fly back, you can fly back every business week of the year for a couple of days and stay within the 90 day rule on tax. That's my worry, is that we're driving out young entrepreneurs, we're driving out bright people. The brain drain, which I remember in the 70s, you know, up until sort of like 78, 9 when you know, our youngest accountants and doctors and people were leaving and the same's happening again. A lot of youngsters going to Australia. Australia now, very, very tempting location, particularly for the medical profession where they're earning a lot more money in Australia. But yeah, that's my real worry. And the total lack of comprehension that you can't actually have the public services you want unless you have wealth creators. They don't understand that we still have IR35 rules making it nightmarish for the self employed. We still don't allow VAT free shopping. So the global rich now spend their money in Paris and Frankfurt. I mean we must.

That was ridiculous. That was ridiculous.

Incredible. The day we left the single market, they put VAT on all these goods.

Yeah, I remember Bicester was full of international shoppers. They spent millions on refurbing it all and it was dead.

Yeah. No, no, no. And this is, this is frankly how stupid we become. Clearly, Reeves is motivated by political ideology. The idea that she was a top economist at the bank of England, I.

Mean, are these people not blackboard economists? Have they actually run a business?

Well, I think she was counting paperclips personally, but maybe I'm wrong. She wasn't a top economist the bank of England. She worked in a department doing a bit of research and fine, you know, I'm not Being derogatory about that. It's funny, isn't it? She overplays who she is. And poor old Keir, humble son of a tool maker, he owned the blooming factory. I mean, there isn't much. There isn't much truth about, is there?

No. Do you think you'll be Prime Minister one day?

I don't know that political realignment that I talked about is happening. I think it is to do with the lack of trust. It is to do with a total lack of connection.

And do you think you've become a lot more popular through that?

Well, I've never ever changed. Wanted to change, pretended to change. I'm what I am and if you like it, that's great. And if you don't, I really couldn't care less. No, but I mean that.

Yeah, you went on the I'm a celebrity. I did. Connected a lot more with the youth. Your own personal social media channels are huge now, so you're definitely gaining some power.

I have a track record of being consistent and persistent. I've been around a long time. If we're gonna get one of those once every fifty hundred year dramatic political realignments. And they do happen, of course. Don't forget, before the First World War, the Liberals governed for years. After the First World War gone and labor became a second party, I think reform's got a real chance of doing something very, very big. I genuinely do. I think standing up honestly, and talking about the problems the country faces. We're predominantly discussing economics today, but think about the social side of it. I mean, I've been gagged over the Southport murders. Completely gagged. I'm not allowed to talk about it. If I even talk about it, apparently I'll be potentially in contempt of court or. I mean, we're living in a state where free speech. We're living in a state where law and order. I mean, we are not just in. We're not just in economic decline, we're in societal decline.

Well, all these people now going to jail for two years for social media posts.

I know. And by the way, some of those social media posts were pretty awful. Yeah, but still. Agreed. Yeah, but still.

But should they be in now two years when criminals are getting let out?

The whole thing's unbelievable. So what I'm trying to do with reform is, as I've said about economics, total change of mindset. We have to apply the same thing to mass immigration because it's not working anymore. It may well have worked really quite well for 50 years. It isn't working anymore. I'm worried about societal breakdown. I'm worried about law and order. I'm worried about the way communities are breaking down. I'm horrified at what our kids are being told at school. I'm absolutely horrified at what the Marxists left teach our kids about this country, its values, what it stood for, what our forebears sacrificed and gave to do a lot for the world. So, as you can probably see from that quick snapshot, I'm pretty passionate about these things. The Labour Party are taking us completely in the wrong direction. The Tory Party haven't got the guts to stand up and do anything about it. So, yeah, I think there's a chance. And to answer your question, whether I become the king or the kingmaker in political terms remains to be seen. But something big is going to happen.

Right. So if you were the kingmaker and you had. You were doing the last budget, what would you do differently to turn the country around?

The IR35 rules have to go. They are absolutely ludicrous.

So you want to encourage people to start businesses and not hamstring them, is.

That what you're saying? Very much so, yeah. Very, very. By the way, that wouldn't cost anything. No, that would not cost the taxpayer a beam. So I changed to the IR35 rules. I also think there's a very powerful argument of companies with fewer than 20 staff being exempted from quite a lot of employment legislation. Now, of course, they'll say, he wants a return to slavery. No, I don't, actually. I want people to get richer.

Yeah.

You know, I think there is a special case for small business. I've already mentioned the VAT on overseas visitors. It was just insane. I mean, bonkers. You know, there are little things like that that we can do.

Right.

The big one. I mean, the really big one, and this is going to take huge courage, is to say there are too many people in the public sector. The number of civil servants increased by 600,000 since the conservatives came to power and they were supposed to support a small government, so. And I'm going to segue now into America. I'll tell you why. Musk comes into Twitter sacks 80% of the staff, and it makes no difference. It's fine. It maybe took a. You had to wait a couple of days for blue tick, but that was it. So the idea is that Musk comes in and starts cutting up the deep state.

Yeah.

And that's gonna be the template for what we need. We need fewer bureaucrats, we need less bureaucracy, we need more streamlined government and when we've then done that, and this is gonna be hard, we need to rationalize, why are so many people on mental health incapacity and what is it actually doing to them? If I tell you I'm a doctor and you come to me and you're feeling a bit depressed, maybe because you've been locked in the second and third lockdowns on the 23rd floor of a block of flats and worried about leaving for more than an hour a day in case the police come and arrest you for sitting on a park bench. But if I tell you you're a victim and I put you on the disability benefits that justify that victimhood status, I probably put you on some prescription drug as well. You think you're a victim. Yeah. So your mental health and probably your physical health is more likely to decline than it is to improve. Now, there are clearly very serious mental health issues in this country, and I don't want to demean or devalue those in any way, but, goodness me, we have to find a way of turning around people's lives. There are young people's lives being ruined by being told that they are mentally disabled, when, frankly, what has happened is they've been through a bit of trauma and it's gonna take guts to do it. Gonna take real guts to do it, and we have to do it.

The irony, I think, is there's one simple solution to this. Get them back to work, doing a meaningful job, working with other people, not from home, but with people. And then you start to earn well and you feel good.

Yeah, I'm convinced of it. I mean, I. Yeah, there are some that will choose that lifestyle and sit and smoke dope all day, but. But they're not all like that by any means at all. The other problem we got, and why we rely so much on mass immigration, is this terrible trap. And I found this in the general election, knocking on doors in Jwick, the poorest bit of the Clacton constituency, actually one of the most deprived communities in the whole of the country. I met loads of people who said, nigel, we want to better ourselves, we want to work. But as soon as I work for more than 16 hours a week, I lose my benefits. I'm worse off. So if they can find a really good job on 40 hours a week, fine, it's worth it. But in many cases, the route back into work is perhaps through a few hours a day, two or three days a week, whatever it is, to get back into the habit of working. So there's some massive changes around the tax system that need to happen here to make work genuinely pay, as opposed to being on benefits. So, for me, if we do not deal with those two problems, we're going to just finish up with this massive bill that is becoming increasingly unaffordable. So these are very frank conversations that we've got to have. There's some quite radical surgery needed to get us back to where I think we should be, but that's what my political career is about over the course of the next few years, and taking on tough issues, but offering solutions. Just saying it's all go to hell and a handcart isn't any use. You've got to find positive ways of dealing with things. But so much of this. So much of this is about mindset, it genuinely isn't. And social media, which we're talking today, and this will go out on social media, and that's great. It gives us a platform to reach people. We don't need the BBC anymore, thank goodness. But one of the problems with social media is that it does frighten politicians. You get the pile on, you say something they don't like, you get the pile on. I think politicians feel it very personally and they get bullied into moving away from what they really believe in to what the mob think they should do.

Because it's safer.

Because it's easier. Yeah, it's easier. So we need people of courage to.

Run the country and people with courage nowadays are getting cancelled, silenced or assassination attempts on them.

Yeah.

I mean, MPs have been murdered and Donald's had two attempts at his life. That's not a fair price to pay.

No. There you are.

But you still do it.

Bit late now. No, of course there are big downsides and big worries and I think you worry about friends, family. I mean, you do worry about these things. Of course it's not easy, but I mean, frankly, if we allow ourselves to continue down this route, then it's frankly as evil. It'll lead to a complete loss of democracy in every way. It'll lead to a complete loss of liberty and freedom and personal choice in every way. That's how important the fight is. Ronald Reagan said 40 years ago, when he was US president, that we're never more than one generation away from losing our freedom and there has to be a perpetual fight to maintain that freedom. Oh, he was right.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think people fully understand implications of things. I post a lot on LinkedIn about preserving cash. I know you post about that a lot and I get. They Go wild. But a lot of people just say, oh, but it's easy and convenient. That's just so lazy to not think of the. Imagine all your money being controlled by the banking system, which is essentially banks, governments, one world entity.

You're telling me about banks. I mean, no one's fought the banks like I.

No. This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension. Pot gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with Direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from Direct Bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension Gold investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are incredible, who've been doing it a long time, who invested things that I invest into and gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com it's already happening.

You could have an account with one of the main High street banks and you might be putting 50, 100 quid a month through one of the platforms into Bitcoin or Ethereum or whatever. And the bank says, no, we're not doing that anymore. Yeah, they're already beginning to control the way we not just earn our money, but how we spend our money.

My friend went to the bank recently, asked for 20,000. They said, what for? He said, none of your business. They said, no, his money. Yeah, I tried to put some money into Bitcoin recently. They'd allow five grand a month for me to put in in one and a half grand installments. But if you try and it doesn't go in, that counts as one of your tries. So I was able to put, yeah, three and a half grand in.

Yeah, no, no, my money. This is a very big fight. The unholy trinity of big business, big banks and big government. Yeah, yeah.

They're supposed to be independent and it seems like they're just one big machine.

They're not, they're not, they're not. These essential things that are freedom of choice. They're all under attack. It's one of the reasons Bitcoin is doing as well as it is. And gold, Gold is. Well, what a budget for gold.

Everyone just buy gold and silver.

Well, yeah, well, silver's more difficult in the uk. Silver's more difficult because of vat.

But the good thing is if you don't have much money, you can buy silver coins. You can get in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they're cheap.

Yeah.

Gold has had a huge rise over the course of the last few years. I've been very bullish of gold for about five years. So, you know, the caveat is that it's risen a lot already.

Well, the bank of America, I think it's going up to 3,000 an ounce.

Well, it's 2800 this morning. Or nearly.

Oh, really?

Yeah, nearly that, yeah.

Wow. The last time I looked it was $2,000.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's, it's, it's rocketed.

Yeah. But surely the gold is long, long hold, play.

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not saying we should, I'm not saying you, you do it for a short term punt. Yeah. You're better off at Epsom at the door on Derby day. That's what you want. Here you have an asset class you can buy where there is no capital gains.

Hallelujah.

You can even put it into your pension.

Hallelujah.

Almost no one knows.

Yeah.

Who knew you could put gold bars into your self invested personal pension, which is very attractive, although maybe a little bit less attractive after what she said yesterday. So. No, I mean, I think the number of UK citizens who even five years ago would have said, well, how do I buy gold? It's all too difficult. No, it's not difficult at all. It's really very easy. And you buy the stuff and you put it in a safe, keep it under the bed or have it stored professionally for you and pay a little bit of rent and insurance every year. And look, I've got an interest in this. I've been working with direct bullion for some time on this. As much to educate people.

Yeah.

That this is an option that's available to you. Because previously people thought, oh well, that's just what, you know, the super rich do. No, it's available to everybody. Yeah, it's accessible. It's also liquid.

Yes, well, I think it's probably more liquid than money in the bank because the banks can say, no, we're not giving you your money.

Yeah, but you can sell your gold.

You, you've got it and it's, and it's tangible and in your hand.

No, it's gold has become actually the truth is, ever since Gordon Brown sold it, do you remember that song Gordon is a Moron back in the 70s, ever since Gordon Brown sold it, it's actually just gone up and up and up and it's had very steady returns over the last few years. It's just the last couple of years when it's really moved up. So, you know, gold is suddenly, as I say, I mean it was Jeremy Hunt that said he was going to bring down the level which we start paying capital gains from 12 and a bit thousand to 3,000. Now she's putting inheritance tax on virtually everything. You know, here is a capital gains free asset. I mean if your money's in the pension pot already, if you want to transfer some of it into gold, you can do so.

Right.

So I think it's a very, very attractive place to be. And as I say, I've been, I've been professionally saying for five years you really ought to have in it, some of your portfolio ought to be in gold.

And is that because generally when economies and other asset classes do badly or inflation is high, or people don't trust systems, gold becomes the thing you trust.

Yeah, I mean, oddly, the Dow Jones is very, very high and gold's high, which is unusual in one sense. Look, the world's in a very uncertain place. The Middle east is disturbing to say the least. The Ukraine war, it just goes on and on and could go on for years. One never knows with the massive increase in the size of its navy, what the Chinese might or might not do. Money itself, money itself has been devalued, isn't it?

Yeah, 30%. Well, they quoted 25% since lockdown. Inflation. Because people look at inflation go, it's less than 3%. That's not a lot. No, it's not going down, it's just going up less quickly.

And it compounds.

It compounds.

Exactly.

So since lockdown, if they say it's 25% and I saw that data six months ago, to me now it's 30.

Yeah. If your money's in the bank, even Though you're getting a bit of money on interest now, but you're not winning.

You'Re losing to inflation.

You're not winning.

And gold always beats inflation.

Yep. It's a great long term play, big opportunity, no capital gains. Put some of your pension pot into it. It's all there to do and that's why I've been happy to put my name to it.

And so you said you've got an interest with Direct Bullion. Just want to explain about.

Yeah, no, I've been working for Direct Bullion. I've been doing a bit of promotion for them, bit of advertising for them, bit of education for them. So you know I have an interest in this. Yeah, declared.

Yeah.

But I'm not doing it out of nothing. I've been doing this now with them for getting on for a year. Yeah. But I've been actually for the last five years I've been involved with financial markets, newsletters, etc, making this argument that you should give gold a serious thought and it is open and accessible to you.

Yeah, well, I'll declare my interest as well. I've become a brand ambassador for Direct Bullion.

Well, you've been a Gold bull for years.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been. Well, I told you I was giving my son hole in ones. He'd get a hole in one. I give him a Krugerrand. Think he'll get one in his life. Maybe he got eight by age eight and they were 700. 700 pounds an ounce back then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And now would you say they are.

$2800 y which in sterling terms would be 2100.

Still a great return.

Have you given him the Kruger rounds yet?

I'm storing them for him until he's old enough.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you better get on to your dad. I'm not sure about this.

Yeah. So if anyone is interested in looking into gold. Robmore.directbullion.com that's robmore.directbullion.com Some people call fiat currency a Ponzi scheme. What do you think about that? I. E? Money isn't real, it's not backed by anything. Well, it's going down in value year on year. How long can that go on before money is worth nothing?

Well, a Ponzi scheme is a deliberate attempt to defraud. Now I'm not quite sure we can accuse our central banks and government of that directly, so I wouldn't equate it directly to a Ponzi scheme, but there's no doubt that since the Break with gold, which happened back in the early 70s, the dollar was firmly pegged to gold. We've seen the most spectacular decline, spectacular decline in the value of money. Quite spectacular.

And the cost of living, relatively. Isn't it lowest since the Second World War or something? The relative cost of living, your standard of living.

Standard of living? Oh, yes. Oh, our standard of living is declining.

Yeah.

At every level. And this isn't just financial, it's. It's, it's also a feeling of being safe. It's also. You're driving up the M6 on a Friday night. Well, good luck with that. You know, it just. Generally, life is. Life is more aggro, less peaceful than it was just a few short years ago.

Do you think it's possible to go back to some kind of gold standard or have. Because money evolves over time.

For the moment, there is enough confidence in money for it to last for a substantial period of time, even if we get a major correction. But ultimately, as you say, money is backed by nothing other than confidence and the system and where we are. And people say, well, bitcoin's worthless. Well, what Backs up my ten pound note.

Yeah.

Other than the bank of England and the establishment. Yeah. You know, it's all about what we believe in. It's all about what we have confidence in. And of course, the great appeal of bitcoin has been there's only ever going to be 21 million of them.

Yes. So they can't do to bitcoin what they do to real money. They can't inflate it, they can't. Quantitative bitcoin.

No, no, Trump, he was dead against all forms of crypto. Now, you know, I mean, I won't call him a brand ambassador, but he has me saying, hey, guys, this is real.

Yeah.

And it is.

So when we last spoke, you were really worried about China. You know, you thought they were a major threat. So where do you think we are in terms of our safety? Are we near a third World war?

Well, hopefully the Chinese are far too clever to want that because, you know, a world war would be catastrophic for both sides. But the way in which they've operated in terms of industrial espionage, the kind of society, the social credit system that the Chinese people have to live under. I don't want that. No, I don't want that. Now, militarily, Taiwan, I guess, is the big problem. They totally reject the independence of Taiwan and I worry at some point in time that they will just simply go and try and take it. I do worry about that. And the extent of the naval buildup is astonishing. Absolutely astonishing. All sorts of contested little bits of coral reef in the South China Sea. It's funny because before President Xi, you know, we never ever thought of China as being expansionist in any way at all. But their modern day imperialism in Africa and elsewhere, the consistent attack on the Commonwealth, they see the British Commonwealth as being a very valuable geographical asset and they've been chipping away at that. So, yeah, my concerns have not shifted.

How do you stay positive? Energized, enthusiastic, committed to change. When. Because I don't want to be negative. I'm a pretty optimistic guy, but I think these things are important to talk about. How do you stay bullish about life?

Well, one reason is, you know, I've nearly died three times. I've had three very serious brushes.

You had a plane crash, didn't you?

Had a plane crash. Smashed to pieces. Still suffer with that every day. But hey, you know what? I'm not in a wheelchair. I've been very, very lucky. Major road traffic accident, which I had run over by a car just over 40 years ago, in hospital for months in a bad way. And an undiagnosed malignant cancer, which was undiagnosed for much longer than it ought to have been. So. So when you've had all these brushes, I just think some mornings you are so blooming lucky. I don't know what I've done to deserve it, but. No, I am. No, I'm being serious. I've been very, very lucky. Lucky in my life. Lucky to still be here, so you make the most of it. So that's one way that I stay optimistic and bullish. The second is that I have a track record of fighting for things that people said, oh, you're wasting your time. Completely impossible. And yet, you know, seems to make you smile. But the impossible happen.

Yes.

Took a long time, but I said earlier, I'm consistent and persistent. Yeah. And the third thing that keeps me happy and optimistic is I like a pint. That's my reward at the end of the day. Yeah.

Great. Well, thank you for sharing that because maybe you don't get asked those kind of things a lot, but I do still think this country has things to offer. I do think life is still beautiful. I do still think you can start a business and you can become successful despite everything that's going on in the budget. I do think these things are possible.

I would just like it to be easier.

Yeah.

I'd like more people to do it. And if more people did, it we would as a country be a lot richer.

And if people like us keep speaking out as well.

And it helps, it helps. I. I get asked a lot. You know, it's. I do this cameo thing, you know, and, you know, it's birthday messages, anniversaries, stag nights, whatever, but. But I get quite a lot of, you know, our son Billy's 18. He wants to get on in life. What's the advice you'd give him? And I always say, I'll say, Billy, I've not met anyone in sport, in politics, in business, in media. I've not met anybody in my life who's become a real success that hasn't worked incredibly hard and probably harder than everybody else in their field. There are no shortcuts. So I think this is the kind of positive messaging I am own little way. Try and put it out. I know you very much try to inspire budding entrepreneurs and people who are on that journey to believe in themselves, to work hard, to think clearly, all of those things. We just need to do it at a national level to turn things around.

So I was fascinated when Trump went on Patrick bet David, he was Theo Fawn, who's gotten really big now, and of course, Joe Rogan. And there was a lot of shenanigans with YouTube, which is Google, which is Alphabet, which are a major donut to the left.

What were, were.

Yes, they certainly were in the Biden era. I mean, they're not top, but they're still Alphabet, YouTube, Google are still quite high up on the list. And you know, in two days, that YouTube with Joe Rogan and Donald Trump had got nearly 40 million views and you couldn't really search for it. So I'm looking at this guy and I'm a big fan of independent media. You know, you've grown a big channel, you know, our mutual friends, people like Dan Wootton, have become more successful when they've been independent and I think disrupting the BBC and the mainstream media, I think overall is. Is good.

I think mainstream media still, the newspapers, the big radio and TV channels, I think mainstream media still sets agendas. It still sets, it frames the debate and where it's going to go. Yeah, but if you want eyes on, there's no doubt it's J Rogan and elsewhere. And there's no question, is there, that the world's changing incredibly rapidly. We come and sit here in five or 10 years time, the mainstream as we know it right now, very little of it will exist. So. Yeah, and in fact, if I hadn't Been elected as a Member of Parliament for Clacton to represent those good people. I'd probably be seriously considering doing my own thing.

Well, as in your own media company?

My own channel. Yeah, yeah. With other people and. Yeah. Because I think.

Would that give you more freedom?

I think. I mean, it may well be. I mean. And by the way, GB News has done an incredible job. I'm not knocking GB News. I mean, they've come in and talk about disruptors. I mean, they've really shaken up the television market. They've got a terrific following every week. I think about 2.7 million people a week.

Wow.

You know, and it's a very loyal audience. Yeah. And it's very powerful. However, what GB News won't be able to get or any of them be able to get is the under 25 market. Right. The Gen Z market don't even know what television is. It's not part of their lives. Just, you know, we grew up with television being quite a central part of family life. They don't even know what it is. And it's to that generation that that's where the new media stuff really, really works. And I'm very encouraged by Gen Z. They're not like the millennials. They've gone. I mean, they're all work, life, balance and be happy. Great. But we all want to be happy. But you know what I mean? Now I see a lot of energy in Gen Z. I see a lot of ambition in Gen Z. You know, I meet a lot of young men and women going out around the country in that bracket. They were smartly turned out, want to get on and they're the people from whom we're going to get the political revolution. It's going to come from that age group. It really is interesting.

So I've got this final question. I've got this theory about tax. So my accountant, who's very good, says the tax code is thousands of pages long. It's really complicated and I don't know how many people need to be hired to keep this very complicated system alive. What about if it was just ripped up and we just had a flat tax rate? And what about if the earlier you start in business, the less tax you pay?

So this happened after the fall of the Berlin Wall. This happened in the Baltic states.

Wow.

Yeah. Was it successful? Lithuania had introduced a flat tax system. Very, very. But they were starting from scratch. As radical as I am, I don't think the British public is ready for flat taxes yet. But I think we can aim there. We can Certainly have flatter, simpler taxes. We can have fewer bands. You'll always have the problem with cliff edges. That's the beauty of flat taxes. There are no cliff edges.

Yeah.

That's the joy of it. Or there may be some at the bottom, but in the middle there are none. Flat or simpler taxes. The UK tax code is now 21,000 pages long.

21,000 pages.

The most complex tax system in the world.

How many staff does it require? Just to keep that up to date.

It's very good for local accountants, by the way.

Well, of course.

Hello. I'm paying you lots of money because I can't do it.

No.

Well, none of us can. If you've got a business with a reasonable income and you're paying people, you're almost mad to do the books yourself.

Yeah.

Because if you fall foul of any of it, you know, you can be in real trouble. So flatter, simpler taxes. Yes. Absolute flat tax system. No. I still think, mentally, the British public think a lower rate for lower earners, a higher rate for higher earners. That redistribution idea is quite firmly ingrained in our minds, but it can be a damn sight better than it is.

Another theory I have is that befriend the billionaires, the big corporations take a bit more off them, because I understand some big companies are avoiding corporation tax. They're paying like 4% when we're paying 25.

That's the irony. Yeah.

Why couldn't you just get 8% out of them?

Yeah.

And then you're probably putting hundreds of billions back into the economy.

Yeah. I mean, this is about competition, isn't it? So why have Ireland done so well in terms of big American companies and others headquartered in Ireland?

They've lured them in.

Competitive.

Yeah.

What have we done? What dories do they put up. They put up corporation tax by 31%.

Yeah.

From 19 to 25p in the pound, whilst Ireland's still 12 and a half. You have to be competitive. You want to succeed in life, anything. You have to be competitive.

How do they not know this?

Don't ask me. Don't ask me. I've been scratching my head for 30 years asking myself that question. Different people. Groupthink. A lot of people from very. A lot of people from very similar backgrounds, very similar types of people who tend to live their political lives with many of them run through their whole life. They don't have hobbies, most of them outside interests, friends. Most of them wouldn't be seen dead going down to the local pub. They live in this political battle bubble and if you live like that, then you self reinforce perhaps the views that you started with to the degree when you stop thinking about all the others. And that's again where politics needs a massive shake up. We need different people with a much broader range of backgrounds. I think politics was so much better when I was a kid. I know people say things like that, but I think it was because I think, you know, your, your classic Labour MP had, you know, been down the pit and had risen up through the union and was somebody that had leadership abilities and could stand and speak without reading everything off. And I mean, unbelievable. They can't even do PMQs without reading it out. Yeah, it's incredible. You know, when your classic Tory had been a decorated soldier in the war or, you know, had run a country estate or. But they'd all, they'd all done something, they'd all been something before they entered politics. Right. And now you get the, you know, Oxford and Cambridge University Research Office MP at 28. What do they know? Too many of them college kids.

Right.

No good.

Yeah. Why can't we just have a few more people, have really run some serious businesses?

We need it, we need it, we badly. We need it now more than ever before. But if you're running a serious business, do you want the level of intrusion, do you want the level of risk, do you want the level of scrutiny? It's tough.

No, but I did say this. I was interviewed on a big podcast a couple of days ago. I said, if, you know, the government came to me and said, rob, give us five, eight hours a week of your time to consult and advise and help you do it. I would do it and I would do it, do it for free.

Yeah.

And I reckon every other entrepreneur would as well. For free. No, I agree because I care about my country.

Yeah, well you're, I mean, with what you're doing already, going out around schools, things like that, trying to spread this message, it's really, really important.

Maybe this is a radical idea, but are senior politicians underpaid?

Yes, but you'll never convince the public of that. You'll never convince the public of that, I'm afraid. It's funny, when I was in Brussels, there were 10,000 staff in the European Commission whose take home pay was higher than the British Prime Minister. Amazing. Amazing. And it's the same here. The civil servants earn more than the politicians. If you paid more money, would you get higher quality people? Possibly.

Would they do a better job? Would they be less interested in getting their quality?

I'd love to think so. But will the British public ever support that? No, it's not happening. It's not happening. If you want to make money, don't go into politics. You want to change the country, in the end, you have to. It's a big sacrifice for many people. It's a very big sacrifice, certainly for me. I mean, the financial sacrifice of the European Parliament for me was absolutely huge. Leaving the city, packing up my company just before the big commodities boom. But do I regret it? No. Because I followed my dream, followed my passion, worked hard at it, enjoyed most of it as my assistant, my press guy. And we've been together 10 years, as he says, Nigel, we've won a few, we've lost a few. We've had a damn good time.

Nigel, thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you, Rob. Thank you.

This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co.uk to learn more.

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This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more.

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