Ranking Tax Saving Strategies

Did you know your money is being quietly and secretly stolen? The central banks and governments profit from your money using your savings without you knowing. I asked this multi millionaire the exact strategies on how you can earn more, keep more and get your tax bill down. You do not want to miss this episode. I want you to blind rank these tax saving strategies.

Okay, so does that mean best to.

Worst 1, best 7?

The worst, as in you can save the most amount of tax or are the most likely to be legal? The first one, because some tax saving schemes end up being retrospectively illegal, because that's what the government can do.

Have you got an example?

Well, there's just loads of them where they'll give you R and D at the moment, the R and D tax saving loophole, which now they're reversing or investigating people on. There's been endless schemes where they decide to change the law and go back seven years and retrospectively claw you back. Now, to be fair to the government, that's not always based on. On a government change. It could be some scheme that's being promoted. I don't promote schemes. And you need to be very careful with tax schemes. And also, before you get into this, if someone says, oh, I can save you 100 grand in tax, so what you need to do is pay me 25 grand as a fee, which is a quarter of the saving. You need to be very careful about that because what they'll do is they'll set something up. They're all incentivized to get it done. You'll pay them the 25 grand you think, think you've saved 100 grand in tax, then HMRC or the IRS disagree and then they come to you for the 100 grand and the accountant's off to Cyprus and you're not getting your 25 grand back, so you have to be careful of that. People think, you know, schemes, offshore trusts, that's another one. I wonder if you've got that in your rank. So. Right. Okay, this, this doesn't sound as easy as the last blind rank, which I nailed.

You did.

Now you're the last one. All right, so one, best seven, worst.

Okay, okay. Max out your stocks and share. ISA 20 grand a year.

One.

The best one. It's only 20 grand a year, though.

Well, let's finish the game and I'll tell you why. If you want to know.

Yeah, okay. Invest more into your pension.

One.

Are we taking that as two?

Two.

Okay. All right. I'm going to keep a note on it. So start a charity or Foundation. Six, Invest in property. Five, Start a limited company.

Well, if you don't say start an LLP next, I'll say three. I'll just assume company invest in premium.

Bonds for the chance to win tax free prizes.

185. 7. I mean, that's the biggest load of whack, isn't it? Premium bonds. Yeah.

Move to Dubai.

Is that four that's left?

That's four that's left.

Okay, I'm all right with those. I'm not, so I don't mind justifying them.

All right, so let's go through.

You were surprised with number one.

I was surprised.

I'll tell you why. Because it's a personal tax break. It's the only personal tax break left. I think all the others are company tax breaks. But you can take 20 grand of your own personal money a year and, and put it into an ISA and have a tax break. Everything else isn't personal. It's one of the only few left of your own personal money. That's why I put it number one.

So I invest £20,000 of my own personal money into let's say a Vanguard S and P. Yeah, anything. So the first 20 grand is tax free. And anything, if that goes up, do I then pay capital gains tax on the increase?

Oh, you have to look into this because they change, they can change the rules, but it's all tax free until you release it. And then when you release it, you're allowed a capital lump. Tax free. This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and, and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the Pension Gold Investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invest in things that I invest into. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and, and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com and then you're taxed.

Okay.

Yeah, it gets technical. I'm not going to go above my pay grade, speak to an accountant. But it's a rolled up tax break.

Okay. And you say that's a personal tax break. Do companies get the same thing? Is there a certain allowance? Do you know if companies. If, let's say I wanted to invest in again.

Well, that's the pension. So the company pension. So we max that every year as well. But it used to be way more than it is now. I think it's a. You can max a million now. And I'm just so, you know, I'm a fully open, open book. As you know, Mark tells me off about I say too much. But the reason I'm just treading carefully here is because these numbers change.

Yeah.

So for example, you said max 20 grand allowance, but that could become 25. I mean it will change. I don't want to age the podcast. I don't want to get the numbers wrong. So in the pension, I think it's about 60 grand a year now and it was more and I think it's a max of a million quid and it was more. So it has got less easy to do now. But yeah, same thing. You put it in your pension. You can invest in commercial property, not residential. You can invest IN S&P 500, FTSE 100 and all the gains are rolled up and then you can draw, I think 25% of it tax free. So there is a taxable event, but it's less and it's later.

Okay.

But the rules will change. So you always want to make sure you do your research.

I suppose the downside to that is you have to wait until a certain age before you can draw on it.

If it's a better pension is you're not old enough to know you're fucking 15 years old. You haven't waited for anything. So the point of a pension is to win, wait and build wealth later. It's money you earned yesterday for money tomorrow. So yeah, that is the point of it. But the longer you wait to draw money, the more you're going to get if you have high interest savings accounts, if you don't draw them for a year or three, you'll get a higher interest than if you want an instant access. That's how it works.

Okay, I appreciate the long term investing Buffett. So what can people do if they've got a limited company? What can they invest in in case they need it? Let's say three, five or 10 years rather than years for me.

What can you invest in a limited company?

Yeah.

Well you can buy the building in which the business operates. You can invest money in stocks and shares, S&P 500, FTSE 100. I mean theoretically you can invest your working capital in your company into any asset class. You just can't get any benefit in kind. Now, now when it comes to things like gold and silver. So my business partner and I talk about this and he's just like, well, you just need to make sure there's no benefit in kind. So people are oh yeah, well I'm going to buy jewelry and hold it in my company and then they wear the jewelry. That's you're going to get that. I can't say that's illegal, but I can say there's a benefit in kind there. So what they don't want is benefit in kind or duality of purpose. So it's got to be only for the company. So it's very easily recognized to put it into a high interest savings account. S&P 500 FTSE 100. Invest in your pension. You can invest in your pension in gold and silver. Owning the real estate within the business outside of that, it starts to get a little bit more nuanced and technical. And you know, if you have an investigation, you may be forced to prove and the burden of proof might be on you and they may just decide whatever they want. So you need to be clear that there's no benefit in kind or duality of purpose.

So you said at the beginning that the government might go back seven years.

They can.

So they'll change the rules.

They make their own rules. Well, the HMRC or the irs. I shouldn't say the government. They are the government. Yeah.

So you can two years, three years, four years, you're absolutely fine not committing any sort of tax fraud. They change the rules and they go back and go, you did it wrong, it has happened.

You should maybe do some research and find out where that's happened. We can do an episode on that. I have a couple of rules. Number one, I run it through my hot been within 15 years accountant. Now when you're starting out. Run it through three or four different accountants. You will get three or four different answers and then check that it doesn't negate my tax investigation insurance. So if it ticks those boxes, I think I'm probably going to be all right. And then it's probably just how good your story is, what you can prove, and how good your lawyer is, and.

Whether or not you're talking about it on a YouTube video with thousands of viewers.

Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, but, but like, you know, I'm being really clear and open here. Yeah. And you know, everyone wants, you know, the hack to save a load of tax. Often the hack to save a load of tax is the Trojan horse and you end up getting screwed by it. So you have to be careful. So this is proper shit that works. And of course, this is UK different in America and other jurisdictions.

Okay, so that is max, now your isa, and that is pensions, which is number two. And then number three is starting a limited company.

Well, a limited company you can run various things as a tax write off or a tax break. LLPs, you can run a home office and a car. So I have one car per partner. So we have five partners. So we have five cars and we can run them. And so instead of having to draw income tax at 45%, which could change and go up and then buy the car and then have to pay for the maintenance and the servicing after tax, you can run the. You cannot run cars in a limited company. You get company car tax, benefit and kind tax, basically. And they stitch you and it's really expensive and people are, oh, yeah, but you know, I'll have a car, a pool car. No, you can't use a pool car for personal use. And if you try and do that, you're taking a big risk. They're supposed to be parked at the office and only used for work. Now if you are a builder or, or if you have a letting agency and you use cars for work, then of course you can have that as a pool car. So LLPs are great because they're the only company structure where you can run a car through the company and get duality of purpose benefit by running yourself. But there are conditions and caveats that are above my pay grade that you need to speak to a good accountant about. But in a limited company, if you're going abroad and interviewing people on a podcast and for, you know, for your podcast, you obviously have the podcast as podcast, then the travel, the accommodation, the hardware, it's all offsetable as a Business expense, the subsistence, you know, so the food and, you know, the travel and the taxis, that's all offsetable. I don't do holidays because I work every day. I do work trips, you know, or the. The laptop I use, the phone I use. It's all used for business. So I have the headphones, which I use for all the work calls. So as long as you're using all these things for work, then they are offsetable as a business expense. And again, my rule is, if I think, oh, is that a business expense? Speak to my accountant, check with the tax investigation, insurance. And over the last few years, since lockdown, the government have shut a few sort of quite nice tax breaks, especially for company owners and landlords. But there's still plenty, because they need us, because we fund the public sector, you know, we employ everyone and we drive most of the economy. And then when they need us even more, which they will soon, when the economy gets worse and when everyone's left for Dubai and they want us back, they'll open up a load of loopholes again and they'll give you more tax breaks, whether it's, you know, business rates, relief. I know in Portugal at the moment they're launching this, or they're discussing launching an initiative where for the first 35 grand you earn, it's tax free, which I think is a brilliant idea. We've talked about this on a previous episode. You know, make it easy for people to start businesses by keeping tax really low at the start and incrementally ramp it up as you can afford it. And everything goes around in cycles. They won't ostracize and hate on entrepreneurs forever. Although, to be honest, it's worse being employed, because at least when you're an entrepreneur, when you run your own business, you're an entrepreneur, you charge vat, take it all in, then you've got three months to hold it before you pay it, and then you can run expenses through your company to reduce your corporation tax. You can control how much income you draw to just control how much income tax you pay. You can put your max into your pension and other things like that. Whereas when you're employed, you earned five grand, they take off the tax, they take off the national insurance, they take off the student loans, you're left with 2,100 quid and you've got no choice and there's nothing.

So pretty much everything you buy as an employee costs twice as much. So with that being said, you've essentially bought five supercars, half price.

Yep. Yeah. My Lamborghini after tax would have been 650 grand because I'd have had to have, I'd have. Income tax is 45% for me. But actually there's this disgraceful tax trap at 100 to 125 grand where you in that bracket essentially pay 60 grand, 60% tax because you lose all the early breaks and the tax is higher and it works out 60% in that bracket. So if you're kind of earning 120, you're paying more than 50% in income tax, which means everything cost up. Gold is predicted to go up to $3,000 an ounce, but by bank of America, that's a 50% increase in a very short time. Gold and silver have gone through the roof recently with all this news of an impending recession, depression or crash. I'm also very excited to announce a brand new and long term partnership with Direct Bullion. This is not an ad or an affiliate link. This is a long term partnership. The owner of Direct Bullion has actually been a fan of my show for many years and myself and Nigel Farage have become the ambassadors for Direct Bullion. If you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get the very best spot or under prices on silver and gold. You can learn about how to invest in silver and gold from the people who I buy gold from and who mentor me on my silver and gold investing. You can also buy gold and silver in your pension, which is something that a lot of people don't know about. So to save me answering the thousands of questions I get about investing in silver and gold, Simply go to robmore.com.directbullion.com Right now we have a banking crisis, a potential global recession, billionaires selling all of their assets to be liquid to cash in on the crash, banks going bust and taxes going up. If you'd like to learn how to cash in on the crash and not just survive, but thrive in challenging times, I invite you to join us at the Money Maker Summit Live. The link is Rob Moore. I'm subsidizing a small number of tickets from my Rob Moore foundation or for a very small upgrade fee, you can get special VIP tickets where you meet me personally. You'll get your book signed, there's a VIP dinner with six multimillionaires, there's champagne reception Q&As with three or four panel millionaires, and bonus money mindset sessions as well as the special three days on getting your tax bill down, your income streams up. My eight stages of building Wealth, My formula for riches. And much more content at Robmore Live. Money. The agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link. Robmore Life Money.

I quite like Rory Sutherland's approach. I know you're interviewing him soon. Of everybody should get their first hundred grand tax free.

Yeah.

So it's not in a year, it's just as a adult working, whether that takes you one year or three years, your first 100 grand tax free.

Well, I like that, but I like the first year better. Really? Yeah, because then you're going to want to earn as much as you can in that year. If I say your first year, even if you earn £10 million, it's tax free. Yeah. I'm working your ass, then. You're working your ass. Which benefits the government because you create sales, VAT and revenue for the government. You employ people and it incentivizes people to start a business. Right, I've got one year, let's go. Whereas if it's your first 100 grand, you might chill on 30 grand a year and take three and a half years. So I like my way better.

You've converted me.

I agree.

Okay. So number four, move to Dubai.

Yeah. So I personally, I'm not ready to move to Dubai. I've got my children in private school, I've got my mum and dad still alive here. I've got my wife and her family here, I've got my staff here, all my properties here. So I'm kind of quite tired here. Whereas maybe if I was your age or Jet's age, I, I might have more freedom. I like the leadership in Dubai in the sense of their entrepreneurial. And, you know, they're giving these tax breaks. I mean, they, they, they will boil the frog slightly and creep them up when you get over there. But look how much. You know, people call it sport washing, but look how much money they're pumping into sport. You know, a lot of people are going over to that part of the world, Dubai, Saudi, etc. I just like that they're entrepreneurial and they embrace entrepreneurship. The thing is, in Dubai, everything costs twice as much, so you save the tax, but everything's double. Our coffee is like seven quid or something.

Say that, though their VAT is quite low. So, Ash, I got him an Omega whilst we was over there. I was getting a strap done on my watch yesterday. Six and a half grand in Peterborough, £4,000 in Dubai. The exact same watch out of an Omega shop.

Right. Interesting. Yeah. So I think if I was younger, I think If I didn't have a family, I think I might consider moving there. You have to be careful though, because what a lot of countries do is it like, come over here, no tax and then next year, bang, it's 5%. Yeah, it's only 5%. Boil the frog, slay, then next year it's 10 and then you're stuck. So you got to, I think you got to really want to move there like the, you got to like the place. But I mean, if taxes keep going up like they are in the uk, I mean, you could argue they were higher in the late 70s under labor, but I don't know, a lot of people think they're the highest. Now a friend of mine who's nearly a billionaire reckons you pay 92% in everything you earn and everything you spend in tax. I think it's a bit less, but I think it's easily 70%.

How does that work?

Well, you put VAT on top, you take corporation tax off, income tax off, national insurance off, and then what you're left with when you buy anything, it's got taxes, sales tax on it. You know that, that watch there, 20% sales tax on it. Car you buy 20% sales tax and then road tax. There's two types of duty in fuel. So everything you're putting in is tax on tax, on tax, alcohol. What is 75, 80 tax, everything's tax.

Need to move. Quick story about Dubai. I found this out. Yes, I think you'll find this interesting. Did you know they bought all of the parking meters in Chicago about 10 years ago?

Well, it's very clever. So it's a. I didn't know that.

But it's a 75 year deal, $1.2 billion. It was just after the 08 crash and they needed money. It makes them roughly 200 million a year. And if they want to block it for a parade, they have to pay how much it would have made and if they want to take it out, they have to pay them how much it would have made over the 75 years. Wow.

So like it's smart.

When you start looking at all these different investments, you realize now that they've run out of oil, like, oh, that's how they're like sustaining the city and keeping it growing. As I've got all these different investments, they started doing like 20 years ago that nobody knows about.

Well, we sold one of our leaseholds to one of our big buildings to a Jewish family and I think they paid 12 times the income the freehold generated. So they received the leasehold income from owning the freehold. And Jewish families own a lot of freehold and that's a lot of income. And you can own a lot of the freehold. You can whack up the price. Because it's a bit like when you go to the supermarket and you look at all the products and you think, oh, I compare that to that, to that. But when you look Nestle, Own them all or Unilever, Own them all. So, yeah, I mean, smart people, whether it's Jewish people or, you know, people in Dubai who know business really well, they take their money and they reinvest it into assets that produce income. Income. And another thing about parking. So I found this out because there's. There's a big old restaurant that's got a load of parking at the front near my house. And the restaurant's like not used anymore and it's just a car park. And there was. This is basically the. The deal is that the person who owns the land gets to take all of the revenue from the tickets. You know, you go, you pay your 3 pound parking ticket and the company that came in and did it all and put the meters in and put the cameras in, MAD manages everything because how they make their money is in the fines. Dirty bastards.

Oh, wow.

So a legit business model could be you go to anyone who owns any land and say you can have all the revenue from all the car parking tickets and everything. We'll maintain it and upkeep it, you know, we'll do everything. What do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you make your money? I would just fine the ass off everyone and take all the fines. I love that. You shouldn't love that.

Yeah, but it's just like the really clever ways people make money that's like, how would you even.

It's a bit ambulance chasing though, isn't it?

Maybe.

Yeah.

Anyway, people aren't, people aren't paying their tickets. All right, so number five, investing in real estate.

Yeah, so the reason I put investing in real estate number five is because there's not that many tax breaks out of your company. The main company tax break is buying a building or two within your company because then you're paying the rent to yourself, essentially. So we own 10,000 odd square feet, as, you know, 100 odd stuff in this office. The letting agency as well, which has got about 12, and then the training facility over there that can. We could squeeze 400 people in those three rooms. But yeah, there's quite a few benefits and breaks and depreciations and write offs and offsets with owning your own building within your own company. But other than that, you've probably got to buy your own real estate with your own tax paid money.

Can you explain the story of how you built, how you bought this building?

Yeah, so we bought this building, no money down, by borrowing the money from Mark's stepdad. So this is 5,000 square feet. We paid 500 grand for this, which is not a lot of money.

What year was that?

Oh, it's got to be eight years ago, 10 years ago, maybe more. So we paid 4, 9, 5 for it. We borrowed the money from Mark's stepdad, we paid him a percent a month so he was happy. He got first charge on the building in case anything went wrong. We gave him his money back after month nine and we got it revalued at 750 grand. So we made 255 grand in nine months and we paid him his 495 plus 9%. He was super happy. We got the deal, no money down because we were able to buy it empty, which meant cheap, and we became our own tenant. So we solved the problem.

So because I had tenants that made it more valuable.

Yes. So in commercial property, the trick to increase the value is the quality of the tenant. If you have a startup guy who's 21, who's never had a business and he's been running his business for two months and he's got no assets, that's worth nothing. And so all you've got is an empty building. Whereas if you sign a 25 year lease with McDonald's that can double and triple the value of the commercial building. Whereas vacant possession has no bearing really on residential property. So you know, if you don't have a tenant in a residential property, it doesn't halve in value, just get a normal tenant on an ast. So it was cheap because no one could fill it. But we solved the filling problem because we became the tenant. So immediately, by the way, we had a few years of accounts and you know, we were pretty, a pretty good tenant. So yeah, we did, we did that three times. This building, that building and that building.

So do you have one company that owns that building and then the training company rents that? Is that how that works? Yes.

So Mark and I have various property companies and the buildings are in one property company and then the training company pays rent to our property company.

What's the tax benefit with if there is one?

Well, our property company has got guaranteed money and speak to your Accountant, sure, speak to your accountant. Look, there's things you can do. Don't take the piss though, because some people say, oh yeah, you know, I'm going to own the building, rent it to my company and charge loads of rent. But you can't charge over market rent. You're abusing the system. But you could charge within a boundary higher or lower rent based on the margins within comparables in the city. So if times were hard, we might reduce rent on ourselves. If times are good, we might increase rent on ourselves.

Would that bring down the corp tax of the company doing the renting? So the training company renting it from your property, that rent, does that come off corp tax?

Well, your corp tax goes down the more you can offset expenses against your income.

Yeah.

So let's say this needed a refurb. Then the training company would pay for the refurb, my property company would get the benefit. Cause we've got a full insuring, full repairing lease and then the refurb would be offset. That is if you made a million pound profit and the refurb was 25 grand, that knocks your profit down by 25 grand because you've had a 25 grand expense. But the expense has helped the capital value of this other business going deep.

On this episode. Okay, number six, start a charity or foundation.

I have a foundation and I never did it for tax breaks. I think that's not, I know big, big billionaires do that. I'm not going to judge. But I started my foundation to help people and I don't, I don't interchange the two. Don't use it as a tax break. Use it as a foundation to help underprivileged people, young people, start meaningful businesses that change the world. And you have to be careful because you're not supposed to get any personal benefit from charity donations. And I imagine how the big billionaires figure it out is kind of vicariously getting personal benefit for donations. And that's gray. And I don't go into that gray.

How do you mean? How might they do it?

They might buy a hundred grand Donald Trump, watch off Donald Trump and see if they can get any benefits from Donald Trump. I mean, if you think about why, why did Donald Trump launch a watch brand and why would he charge 100 grand for a watch? And if you paid 100 grand for a watch as a donation, what other benefits might you get? I'm just hypothesizing. Yeah, but I imagine you can make charity donations and therefore get benefits for making those donations. You're not supposed to. So be careful there. So I do not use it for that. Mine are completely separate. My book profits and some ticket profits get into the foundation and then the foundation. I don't take any salary. All the donations are to help. Super clean.

I mean, soon you're giving away £15,000.

Yeah, yeah, I give away 15 grand.

A lot.

I don't, I don't ask for shares in businesses. Yeah, yeah. So not for me. I don't do that.

Okay. And then number seven, invest in premium bonds for the chance to win tax free prizes.

I mean, premium bonds have got to be one of the worst returns. And also premium bonds are owned by the government. You're giving the government money to me. That doesn't feel safe. I'd rather have my own silver and gold load of shit.

Enough said. Are there any other tax breaks, loopholes or schemes that I haven't mentioned?

So why don't we do a second episode on that? Okay. Why don't you do a bit of research, we'll have a bit of talk off camera and we'll go a bit deeper. You can't go deep before you get the strategy right, but I'll happily discuss some of those. But main things are, number one, you need to get a good accountant. And there's three types of accountant. There's one that is essentially a police officer for HMRC or IRS who's working more for the government than you. Then there's one that is probably doing things that cross the line and is probably going to bugger off to another country when everything goes to shit. And then there's the one in the middle that knows the law really well, that knows how HMRC and the IRS work, that's got a lot of experience and can probably help you save some money. But they're expensive, but they're worth it. Yeah, let's probably say there's those three types of accountants. Boom.

Well, I guess. Subscribe for the next tax episode.

Bosh. And remember, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. Foreign. This episode was brought to you by.

Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more.

This episode was brought to you by.

Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more.

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