The Silenced Majority: Dan Wootton Exposes Media Censorship

So, Dan, is this the most crazy time you've ever seen the world in right now?

Well, certainly Britain, yeah. And the uk. Although, Rob, I was one of the people, as you know, who was warning about Slippery Starmer. I never believed this whole shtick of him being some sort of moderate centrist. And because folk on the left, the hard left, like Owen Jones, which so opposed to him, it actually helped people thought, oh, you know, he's just a sort of soccer dad. He's not a threat. No, no, no. Ke Starma Slippery Starmer2t care, whatever nickname you want to use is the biggest threat to freedom of speech that we have ever seen in the uk. And I did warn about this. And look at what's happened in two months. Well, in two months we're literally seeing people sent to prison. This is not an exaggeration for posting political memes. One guy in jail for 12 weeks while child rapists are on the streets because there's not enough prison spaces. I've spoken a lot about Julie Sweeney, who's the 53 year old grandmother of three. She is in prison for 15 months because she made one post in the aftermath of the Southport massacre that she regretted, immediately, tried to delete, apologized for, and she has been locked up. Even though she is the primary caregiver for her husband, she has no criminal record. This is someone who saw what happened in Southport and like many of us, were angry.

As in spondy crime. Yeah.

Three young girls at a Taylor Swift dance class stabbed to death. And we're all told, let's not discuss this now, let's not make this political. No, I'm sorry, we have to, we have to. We can't keep saying, don't look back in anger. So what has happened is that Starmer has effectively tried to smash opposition, crack down on dissent. And what sort of regime does that sound like? Russia, North Korea? This is the uk. This is the home of the Magna Gata.

So let me play devil's advocate, because people are saying he stopped the riots.

Yes, for now.

So you think he's not stopped the riots?

Well, riots tend to have a flashpoint for a very short period of time anyway. And I will point out, and for me personally, this is really important, I am very consistent when it comes to violence. I come from a family of law enforcement. I respect the police. I am consistent that violence against the police in a society is unacceptable. That's not to say I'm not very critical of the police when they get things wrong, but I have been consistent about this. Rob. So if you go back to 2020, I was one of the only people calling out the sick violence at the Black Lives Matter demonstrations and riots. I called out the pro Hamas demonstrators, I called out the Just Stop oil violence, the extinction rebellion violence. So I'm consist. There's absolutely no consistency from Starmer when it comes to this. He took the knee just two days after the most despicable violence from Black Lives Matter in the middle of Westminster. So he is the one that is not consistent.

So you think he's just picking people.

And because, well, he's trying to smash the working classes and yes, he has scared them. Of course he scared them, he scared all of us.

Is it, is it strategic to put a 57 year old, 58 year old woman in Y. Because then you think it could be anyone. Could be anyone. So that's not just conspiracy, you think that's a strategic pick?

Well, there's been a lot of ordinary folk who have ended up in prison. I mean, it's not just Julie, you've got retired train drivers, you've got pensioners who just went down to the march at Westminster and happened to yell in the face of police officers. You've got an 11 year old boy now arrested. This has been a very strategic thing because, I'm sorry, in this country where there are no prison places left, every single day, there are violent career criminals who avoid jail. Right now, Lucy Conley, who is the wife of a Conservative politician, a Conservative counselor, is locked up in prison on remand. This is before she's pled guilty, before any trial again because of a post on X. Now, it wasn't a good post. I'm not defending these posts that people made in the height of the moment. Some of them were hateful. Yeah. But what it was is it was folk trying to express their absolute fury about having been ignored by the establishment for years, Years when it comes to mass immigration into this country, both legal and illegal, a complete failure of multiculturalism. And look, we're weeks on now from the Southport massacre. At the time, Starmer said this isn't the moment to have a conversation about those issues. He hasn't mentioned it once. He gave a state of the nation speech. He didn't mention once the invasion of our southern border, which is seeing thousands and thousands, thousands of people imported into this country who are criminals, who are rapists, who are terrorists, who we don't know where they're from. He didn't mention it once. So he has tried to smash dissent and smash opposition. Obviously it Will make people think twice in lots of ways. But will it in the long term change the fury and the anger that is bubbling under in the uk? No, it won't. So of course, I recommend people are very strategic. I don't recommend that people are violent in any way. I condemn all violence. Also, don't believe that people should spread hate. But do we need to have a discussion? Yes. And should free speech, even if it's hateful, be criminalized and see you end up in prison? No, absolutely not. That's chilling.

Yeah, well, you've got a lot of it going on, haven't you? You've got the Telegram CEO arrested, I think on criminal charges.

He's charged now.

Charged in France on criminal charges. Tate's arrested again. Apparently 30 new women come forward. Do you think there's some strategic, very high level attack on anyone they brand as right?

Yeah.

Is this a left versus right thing?

Well, I don't think it can be defined as simply as that anymore. I would define it as a right versus wrong. Wrong thing. It's about independent thinkers who are against the globalist establishment. Sorry. Well, I. No, I'm sorry. Well, no, I was just gonna say on the whole, most of those folk are people who would be considered to be on the right, but I make the point.

But no one who's considered on the left seems to be cancelled. Oh, no, no, no, no one.

Of course.

Why can't we cancel Harry?

Well. Or the aforementioned Owen Jones, who has said some of the most hateful things, for example, in the wake of the October 7th terrorist attacks in Israel. So it's completely one sided.

But look, because then we also had the mark Zuckerberg admitting 20 million pieces of content they deleted, including humor and satire about the C word and the V word that we can't say otherwise this won't go up on YouTube still.

Well, I was censored. Consistently, including on Facebook. Book.

You were censored as well?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was working on talk radio for that whole period and I was incredibly against the narrative constantly and consistently every single day. And I was censored. Now what I hope is happening is that Elon Musk has shifted the Overton window in terms of what is acceptable. Because I found that letter from Zuckerberg extraordinary.

But I knew it was happening.

Of course, we all knew it was happening.

Right, because they know they're going to get away with it when they talk about it. Four years.

Of course it's terrible. I'm not excusing what Zuckerberg has done for a single second. He was pathetic, he was compliant, he weak, and he was pro censorship. So I'm not defending it at all. But what I'm hoping is that it marks a significant sea change. Because remember, Meta and Facebook, which also owns Instagram, has effectively got. Yeah, and WhatsApp has effectively got out of the news business. They don't want news content. They are scared of it, they're terrified of it. They want to stay away from that. But did this letter signal some sort of sea change in big tech? And I would say, if anything, that will have been sparked by Elon Musk's takeover of X. You see, things change slowly, but obviously, what I Hope for both YouTube and also Zuckerberg. Well, okay, reinstate all of those accounts that you got rid of, provide them compensation. Make sure that they are algorithmically back in the same place that they were before they were canceled. I'm talking about Dan Bongino and Steve Bannon and all of those people who you cancel. Of course they're not. No, of course they're not.

Never going to do that. So what's going on then, with this, this war on free speech? Who's behind it and what's going on, I want to know.

Well, I definitely believe that there is a specific movement and it's very much led by globalists and it's very much out of the World Economic Forum cabal of people like Soros and Blair, Tony Blair, to crack down on dissent that they believe stops their message being the predominant force in the world. And what you have to remember, for a long time, these people did have control of the message. The mainstream media has always been controlled. Now, it hasn't been as biased as it has become in recent years, but it has always been controlled. So even in recent years, look at folk who were cancelled in the uk, specifically, Katie Hopkins, a great example of this. Her voice was erased from society. Now, what's happened with the rise of the independent media, with the rise of social media, with the rise of platforms like Telegram, and also with the complete lack of trust and faith that ordinary folk have in the msm. And that's for a lot of reasons, by the way, but given we're speaking from the uk, you can look at Brexit, you can look at the pandemic, there's a whole load of things that smashed that trust in America. Obviously, it's very connected to Donald Trump, and as a result, they're panicking, they're freaking out because they're losing control. And so that's why you now see them going for Pavel Durov, for example, the chief executive of Telegram. Because Telegram was an apple that hasn't given in to the control, whereas most of the big tech billionaires have. And that's why people often mock me for this and think I'm stupid and think I'm embarrassing. But every single day I thank and praise Elon Musk for his takeover of X. I know people say, what's that about? Come on, he's someone who's trying to colonize Mars. It's not important. He's trying to, you know, be behind an electric car revolution. But for me, this was by far the most important thing that Musk could ever have done. And I actually think when we look back in his career and few decades time, I hope and pray we'll look back and think that was the seminal moment. That was when the narrative was reclaimed from the elites and from the establishment. Not because Musk is not part of the elite and part of the establishment. In many ways he is, but because he was giving the power back to us. Look at the people. People who had been canceled from X or what used to be Twitter in recent years. Literally folk who called a man a man and a woman a woman were erased, deleted from polite society. I mean, Graham Linehan, the creator of Father Ted, who has become a real advocate for women's rights, was literally erased from Twitter because he called a man a man and a woman a woman. Not with any form of hate speech attached to it, simply stating biological fact. As a result of that erasure from Twitter, he lost his career, he lost his place in the entertainment industry, his legacy was destroyed. Now he was behind the very famous British comedies Father Ted and the IT crowd, or the IT crowd, I never know which way it's meant to be said, but you know, very talented guy. And he lost it all. And so by Elon Musk claiming back our right for free speech, as I say, I hope that there is a shifting in the overton window. The big tech companies will do so. It's, it's really about what is acceptable, what is considered an acceptable level of speech or policy. And it's shifted. And you can see that shifty happening before our very eyes with things like the Zuckerberg letter. But there's going to be a huge pushback by.

By who?

Well, by the globalists, by the establishment, by the elites. And yes, often that is authoritarian left wing leaders who present themselves as woke warriors. But in fact I believe push tyranny. They push woke tyranny. And I can name a few, please. Obviously you've got Starmer and he is, I think, potentially the most terrifying of them all. But over the past few years, we've had Justin Trudeau in Canada, we've had Emmanuel Macron in France, we've had J. Ardern in New Zealand. These are terrifying human beings who present themselves as part of the Be Kind left and have this impression of being kind and caring and compassionate leaders. But actually, when it comes to cracking down on dissent, they are the most terrifying of all. I mean, I believe now there are political prisoners in the UK and you won't hear about it in the mainstream media. But I'm sorry, if you were imprisoned because you were challenging a political narrative, which is what some of these folk who are now behind bars did then. Like who? Well, like, for example, the. The guy from Sellafield who shared three memes and. And these were memes, like posting pictures.

Of the boats to be fun. Of course, of course.

But they make a very serious political point, don't they?

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Exactly.

Where is our outlet?

Yeah. And the thing is, it's, it's, it's all well and good for the mainstream media. And this is what they say. They say, oh, no, these, these, these were terrible people who were encouraging violence. But actually there's a line, and to me, the line is very clear. Inciting violence has to be a specific threat against a specific individual or a specific place. If you are talking about an ideology or a type of person, that speech has to be allowed. Daylight is the best disinfectant. I mean, I'm very supportive of the fact that Substack, which is a platform that I'm now on, and I'm on it because I am absolutely passionate about free speech, has not even removed Holocaust deniers from the platform. Now, that gets the left absolutely up at arms. But actually, as soon as you ban that speech, as soon as you say that speech is too dangerous, actually what you're doing is you're driving it underground. You are turning folk into martyrs. You're making people believe that there is something to hide. No, allow people to have the discussion. Allow people to be proved wrong. But what you're finding, and I think this is what's particularly chilling, is that now you have neo Nazis and Holocaust deniers being lumped into the same category as me or Nigel Farage. And actually we share views that the vast majority of the British public share sovereignty, you know, belief in borders, the need to actually maintain a coherent culture, be that with the English language or Christian values. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't accept other religions, but it's about what our country was built on. That is not far right, but actually, I think it's going to become like the label turf, trans, exclusionary, radical feminist. And for a long time, that was considered like the ultimate insult. If you were called a terf, you were canceled, you were thrown out of polite society. Look at what happened to J.K. rowling. But actually, over the last couple of years, and I'm one of these people who've said, no, that's not a bad thing. If you want to call me a turf, great. Not to say that you're against trans people living their life, but what it means is that you're saying there is a difference between a trans woman and a woman. There's a difference there. That's what a turf is. So actually, I think if these folk on the left and the globalist establishment are not careful, they're going to say more and more people say, actually, who cares if you're going to label me far right or extreme right. It's meaningless.

Are people labeling.

I know that then all the time.

All the time, calling you racist for talking about immigration.

People call. Of course. People call me everything. I mean, people call me homophobic even though I'm a gay man. People call me racist even though I believe in a colorblind society. People call me transphobic even though I believe in the rights for trans people to exist. I just think that they are not women or men, depending on what the case is, they are a trans man or a trans woman. So you throw your insults all you like, and my goodness, they do. But I know that I am with the majority and I describe it as the silenced majority. We are being silenced. Well, this is part of the fight back. Your podcast is part of the fight back. What? I've launched without spoken as part of the fight back because the fight back is only going to happen if the mainstream media is destroyed, and it deserves to be destroyed. It is so dishonest and it is so corrupt. And remember, I say this as someone.

Who worked in the mainstream media for how long?

For two decades.

Right. Well, I want to come to your career in a minute, because you've got an amazing career in mainstream media. You asked me on your show, outspoken, was I scared?

Should you have been? No. You loved it.

Yeah. I mean, I want to ask you the same question before I share what my answer was, but are you now scared to speak the truth?

I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm genuine.

What if they shut your YouTube channel down, though?

Of course, that is a horrifying prospect. But I'm not scared, because you can't be scared. You can't be scared. And I had Gad Saad, the Canadian professor, on my show recently, and I asked him about this, what should we do? And he used the analogy of the Normandy landings. And there is a similar thing there, actually. We have to fight for free speech. Why should we have free speech if we don't fight for it? And he also made the point Keir Starmer could only put so many of us in prison. There's only so many prison places left. In fact, there's no room in the uk. And it's not to say that you should be reckless or turn yourself into a martyr, but it's about thinking intelligent thoughts and sharing them without fear. Now, that's not to say that it did have a chilling impact. I mean, the weekend after the Southport massacre, where people were literally being locked up, I Had friends who were arrested. So this has come very close into my world, into my orbit. I've seen people being destroyed and silenced. I had a lot of high profile people and I'm talking about some of the country's most familiar columnists, commentators, politicians. Admit to me they were scared, they were terrified. But there's a line, isn't there? And in some ways, maybe we need Starmer to overstep that line. I mean, what happens if he tries to jail a mainstream journalist or a commentator or a politician? Do you see what I mean?

Well, start a revolution, probably.

Exactly. And that's why. So right now it's very easy because he has locked up people who the mainstream media despise. They look down upon ordinary patriotic English people. They really do. We saw this during Brexit, for example, where every time they presented a Brexiteer on a TV show, they were edited so that they used clips where they looked stupid. They were made to be portrayed as some sort of underclass that didn't know what they were voting for, that were too stupid to understand the repercussions of their democratic vote. And the same thing is happening now. Oh, if you turned up at a protest after the Southport massacre, you were clearly, according to the mainstream media, a racist, bigot, pleb. Well, no, actually, no. Now people choose to express their dissent in lots of ways. I've actually never been someone who believes that the right way to express dissent is on the street. That's not me. I don't attend protests personally. But you absolutely have a right to do it in a democratic society. And we see the two. We don't have it justice.

Do we have a democratic society?

Well, we obviously have a vote. I mean, I don't believe that our democracy is functioning well because if you look at the uk, we get a vote in a national election once every five years. And for the vast with a piece.

Of paper and a pencil, vast majority.

Of us, that vote's wasted because of the first past the post electoral system. So I do believe that there has to be genuine reform. And I also believe there's a strong possibility that Nigel Farage could be prime minister by 2029. I actually believe that's the likelihood at the moment, which again, a lot of people will call me stupid for saying that. But those same people were the people who will say that Brexit would never happen, that Donald Trump would never be president, that Marine Le Pen will never be president of France. Well, I think she will because you can only smash down and silence the majority for so long.

So let's talk about your career in media, then. I mean, obviously, you know, you're very well known and outspoken is really blowing up, which I'm really excited about because I remember when I first met you and you just come out the other side of probably maybe the worst time in your life.

Oh, yes. I was not in a good place even when I was here a few months ago with you, but it feels like an eternity ago now. And what it was not that long ago, really.

Wouldn't even. Four months, maybe six months. Yeah, yeah, not long. So, yeah, give us your sort of like, cv, career in media and then we'll talk about the change into being independent.

Yeah. So I was in the mainstream media for my whole career. I was a teenage journalist and TV reporter in New Zealand. Moved here when I was 21, immediately entered the mainstream media. I didn't have any connections, I didn't know anyone, I got no help. So I did it all myself. But I entered Fleet Street. I worked for the News of the World. I was at the News the World when it shot. I worked for ITV for 10 years on the Lorraine Kelly show, presenting all the entertainment and pop culture news. And then when I moved to the sun and I started off as the bizarre editor, but narrow the end of my career at the Sun, I moved into news and politics, which had always been my passion. I started a show on talk radio and I was there through all of 2020, which was a seminal moment. I became a columnist and I left to become a launch presenter on GB News and a columnist for the Daily mail online in January 2021 because I had lost faith in the mainstream media. I'd been losing faith for a while, but you can imagine 2020 smashed my faith and my belief because I saw everything that was happening and in some ways, I think people know it's quite boring to go over, but remember, newspapers were effectively paid by the government to stay alive because they'd shut all the shops. But what that meant is they were literally broadcasting propaganda on a daily basis. This is all factual, you know, it's all. It was, it's all paid for by ads, but it was only the governments that kept newspapers alive over that period. So I was ever, ever so slightly being silenced. And so I believed in the need for GB News, which was.

So you thought that would be independent?

Yeah, well, I knew it was going to be very different and for a long time it was. And I launched GB News. I was the launch presenter on June 2021. It was a very Difficult period because there had been no channel like GB News in the uk.

How was it different?

Because we were all about a diversity of opinion and at that point that was so necessary. I mean, by the time I went on air there was still all of the lockdown restrictions in place. It was mental. You know, my first monologue, I was comparing what was going on in the UK to China and the fact that we were heading towards a biosecurity state and people thought I was crazy. Well, I'm sorry, look at where we are now. But what happened with GB News is because the launch was so terrible. It was pretty much the worst launch, technically speaking, in British television history. Is that for a long time the left and the establishment just mocked GB News. They derided GB News and it was only a couple of years in when we were making huge inroads, really starting to challenge the narrative and for me, specifically challenge the rest of the mainstream media. Actually call them out every single day for their lives, show people their lies. You know, this is what they said on Sly News. Here's how it's wrong. Can you believe what the British Bashing corporation have done today? Thou lies. Look at the latest from Wokai tv. I was doing that every single day. Now, maybe I was stupid or maybe I was naive or maybe I didn't care, but I knew they would end up coming for me eventually and they did. But unfortunately what happened is that GB News gave in and that's what really disappointed. But we saw signs of this a few months before my departure from GB News because Mark Stein, the brilliant campaigning journalist who hosted the show before me, was effectively cancelled in really awful circumstances when he had been calling out issues that the establishment just hadn't spoken about for a long time. But again, what I would like to think is. Here's that term again. We shifted the Overton window. We ship. We shifted what was considered acceptable to discuss in the mainstream media. GB News was then completely. I think I'm trying to think of the best word to describe it really, but it had a numbing effect. What happened to GB News? They became so scared of the advertiser boycott by woke advertising agencies and literally being shut down by the off communists. If you're watching from overseas, that's the British government regulator called Offcom, but I call them the off communists and they gave into that. Now, I don't believe that GB News will ever recover because yes, their audience was underserved, but their audience also isn't stupid. And the reason that they loved GPUs was because of the fact that freedom of speech was absolutely critical to its entire mission. And within a few months, you saw the departures of Mark Stein, myself, Lawrence Fox, Calvin Robinson, lots of other lesser known folk who were cancelled too. And why they were so stupid is that that coincided with the absolute explosion of the independent media. Now, I know for a long time people have been doing brilliant things on YouTube, you and Maya Tusi and obviously in America, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Dan Bongino. These are the biggest names in cable news in America who aren't on television anymore. And it doesn't matter because if you want to see Megan Kelly or Tucker Carlson on television, you just stream it from your phone. And people pretty much know how to do that now. So I think GB News became captured and became cucked. I guess they, they were, sorry if that's too graphic, you know, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? And. And they gave in. And I was very sad about it. And I think the way that I was treated was appalling. And a lot of people have a lot of regrets about that, I would imagine. But I've moved on. And I genuinely have moved on. I'm not just saying that because I have been given the most incredible gift to be independent now, to go directly to my audience and say, I am no longer controlled at all. I no longer have. I mean, for years and years and years, I had billionaires who were effectively pulling my strings. Now I pushed back and I pushed back every single time. But the problem is they still have the power. Because, for example, when I was at the sun in my last few months, eventually they started saying, oh, Dan, stop writing about the. You know, and it was coming from on high. It was just like, this just isn't convenient for us. You know, just stop writing about the lockdown. No, I didn't stop writing about the lockdown. I wouldn't stop writing about the lockdown. But there's lots of things they can do. They can move your articles back in the newspaper, they can give them less prominence online. There's lots of things newspapers can do to control their columnists. And actually most columnists in the end give up fighting. And certainly the same thing happened near the end of my time at GB News where there were lots of messages that were coming down from on high about what I should be doing and I wouldn't be controlled. I wouldn't be. And I've never been good with authority my entire life and it gets me in lots of trouble. But I think that's why this is now the biggest gift though, Rob, because I am literally going out to my audience, my outspoken audience, every single day, both on Substack and with my independent show, which can be watched on YouTube and rumble. And I'm saying I am no longer controlled by anyone. Yes, I have to work within the ecosystem of social media and we know what that's like with big tech censorship. But I make the point, the only way I can get around that big tech censorship through my own website and through my own Substack is by you supporting me, if you can. £5amonth. So the price of a cup of a coffee in London, I understand loads of people can't afford that and that's why the vast, vast majority of everything I do is free and available. But if you can support me, which thousands and thousands of people, thank goodness, are doing, allowing me to create a new media platform that is not controlled by anyone. I find it absolutely inspiring and I.

Look where can people go to find.

So it's on YouTube. Dan Wilton, outspoken and hopefully you'll put.

It in the show notes, of course, and yours.

W, double O, double T, O, N. Yeah. And then also on Substack as well. Now, Substack is a brilliant platform. Not that many people know about it yet, but it's going to be massive, mark my words. Because Substack is where real journalists go to tell the truth when they have been shut down in written form. And it's not left or right. There are commentators on the left like Mehdi Hassan, who I cannot stand but was canceled because of his view views over the Israeli Palestine conflict. And he is on Substack being very successful. It's not a left or right thing. What it is is an independent thing. You are not going to be censored on Substack. It's a really exciting, amazing platform. That's where I do my writing and, and foster that more in depth relationship with, with my audience. But I genuinely feel like this was the biggest gift now because it's impossible for someone like me to be controlled. And that's what happened in the end. All of the jobs that I lost or left was because I was not prepared to be controlled. And every mainstream broadcaster or columnist to an extent is controlled. And a lot of them are my friends, but they will say to me, oh, Dan, you know, I couldn't say that. You know, the chief executive spoke to me about that, you know, the editor spoke to me about this, that because the investor had spoken to them about this and you know that you understand. You understand why I can't post this on X. I respect you for doing so, but, you know, I can't get involved in that discussion. I'm not calling those people out. But what I am saying is that it's such a gift for me to no longer have that. And I hope people can see and feel now that I'm not controlled and I'm not working for any billionaire. I am only working for the audience. And this is the future of media, by the way. I mean, I speak about her a lot because she's such an inspiration to me. But what Megan Kelly has done in the US is absolutely phenomenal. Her show, which is available on YouTube now on a monthly basis, receives more views than every major mainstream broadcaster in the uk in the us. Sorry, NBC, cbs, cnbc. I mean, that is extraordinary. And she does it with a small team, but it's because people want the unvarnished truth. And I have to say, she was incredibly supportive with the launch of my channel and she really made me believe in myself at a time when I didn't. Because the thing is, she was canceled in very similar circumstances to me. And it's really difficult to get. To get back on your feet because you start to doubt yourself. Actually, should I just go away quietly? Does anyone want to hear what I think? Is there going to be a market for this? It's really hard when you're first doing it on your own. But she inspired me because of the amazing reaction to her show. And you see it. I mean, I used to watch Megan Kelly all the time when she was on Fox News, but she's different now because she's no longer controlled. She says whatever she thinks, and there is such a power in that.

So you've mentioned a few times those billionaire investors, you know, what very powerful people are behind mainstream media and therefore the attempt at censorship.

Well, look, obviously I've worked for the biggies. You know, I've worked for Murdoch for many years or Rothermere within the Daily Mail empire. And now there's a guy called Paul Marshall who is the investor in GB News, and there's rumors he's about to buy the Spectator and he was bidding for the Daily Telegraph. So there's a whole load of those actual people.

But the thing is, are they nefarious or is that what the. The other media like to portray? Or they like to have the narrative?

Well, so they're not necessarily nefarious as individuals. It's not about that, though, is it? It's about the fact that they are reliant on other billionaires, especially once their businesses are listed. So there are so many commercial obligations that any of these big companies have. And they are also now having to work in lockstep with the woke advertising industry. And it's something that people don't talk about because it doesn't feel like it's particularly relevant to conversation, but I promise you, it is.

So do. Do you mean the advertisers are pushing the narrative?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

And that's why you love Elon Musk, because he told Disney to go.

Just F off. Because honestly, the woke advertising agencies, Rob, I mean, they are the absolute epitome of the metropolitan elite, both in the UK and the us.

What does this mean?

So it means they all think in the same way. They are all champagne socialists. They are completely out of touch with the. The lives and the challenges facing ordinary Americans or ordinary British people because they are personally wealthy, but they look down on the plebs because these people never have to worry about their child education, because they're at a posh private school and they never have to worry about, oh, is it actually safe for my child to get on the Tube to go to school? Because they might be stabbed because they're being driven to school. So they have no idea about the issues that are facing ordinary people. But also they're just all captured and they're all scared and they have the mob mentality. And that mob mentality means they don't want to allow controversial opinions to thrive. And it's also been behind, you know, the DEI madness that we've seen. I mean, come on, there's such thing as over representation and that has all been driven by the ad agency. So let's just be honest about it and be frank about it. The UK remains a predominantly white country. Yes, it's diverse. And I believe that there should be diversity which matches what the population is. I've always been for that. But if you look at any advertisement now on British TV, you would believe that we live in an 80% ethnic minority country. And that's wrong, isn't it? Diversity is meant to be. Diversity is meant to mean that you equally represent what society is. It would be very weird if in Namibia, 80% of the advertisements featured white people. That would be odd, wouldn't it? So they are behind. The advertising industry is behind this. This absolute push towards trying to convince us that Englishness is bad and that it's bad to be proud of what it means to be British traditional. And the problem is these media Organizations, even the ones that maybe have quite good intentions in some ways, they are completely beholden to these advertisers. Completely beholden.

So Andrew Tate, I thought about not asking this question because I guess everybody in the world asks this question, but actually you're highly qualified to answer, I believe, because you've been in mainstream media for two decades. Is he being set up?

I think he is, absolutely. There has been a desire to shut Andrew Tate down. He got too powerful and he couldn't be controlled. And it's absolutely terrifying when you see the establishment come for someone. Now, I'm not comparing myself to Andrew Tate, we're obviously completely different characters, completely different human beings come from a completely different heritage and history. But I do know what it's like to be shut down by the establishment, genuinely. In July, August last year. So 2023, the establishment wanted me off television, they wanted me off mainstream media. They amplified complete lies in order to do that, including, by the way, launching a spurious police investigation. And so this is what you see happens.

Wow.

It's possible for police investigations to be launched on false allegations, but if that is the message that is pushed out by a compliant mainstream media, you can completely destroy someone's reputation within days. And with Tate, it's like that on speed. Now, that's not to say, by the way, that I think that everything that Andrew Tate says or does is a good thing or that I agree with it, but I absolutely agree with his right to be able to say it.

You think these police investigations are spurious?

I think they are. I. But. But I think the bigger point is you have to look at when they happened, why they happened, who is behind them happening, which media organizations report on them, because what you also have to remember, and there's very little conversation about this, but the police, especially in the uk, are completely reactive to the media and the media is left wing in establishment. So so many crimes, real crimes, violent crimes, go uninvestigated or unreported because they are not in the media. And that's why we saw the grooming gang scandal in the uk, which was, of course, massive groups of Pakistani men in northern English towns and cities raping thousands of white British girls. And there was no political desire to prosecute, because the mainstream media for years was not interested in the story because they were worried that if they reported on it, if they focused on it too much, they would be accused of racism. And so look at what's happening with Lucy. Let me now, for example, the mainstream media now, Lucy Litby for people who don't know is apparently, if you believe the conviction, the worst ever child killer, killer of babies in British history. She's in jail forever. She's never been released. Now, there were no questions about this prosecution for a long time because the mainstream media was completely compliant. She was the monster, she was the angel of death. She was on every front page being portrayed in that manner. It was only American journalism that actually looked at this case and saw the huge chinks in the armor of the prosecution of Lucy Letby that has finally turned this into a story now. But it's too late, isn't it? She's. She's even had her opportunity to appeal the conviction rejected. And only now is the mainstream media talking about the story. Because, I mean, there was a very senior presenter at GB News who said to me, oh, I know Lucy Letby isn't guilty. I said, fascinating, let's discuss it. Why? What do you know? They talked me through it and I said to this presenter, wow, this is really fascinating. Will you talk about it? Nope, wouldn't talk about it. Still haven't said one word about it, because people are too terrified to be the one that goes against the narrative. But when it comes to Lucy, let me. There have been some very brave people, like Peter Hitchens in the Daily Mail, Nadine Dorries, the former Health minister, who have put their neck on the line. David Davis, the former Conservative Cabinet Minister, is now investigating the case. I'm fascinated by it, but I use that example not to even say Lucy Letby is definitely innocent. What I say is that it was impossible for Lucy Letby to receive a fair trial and the mainstream media only wanted one result. And so then the establishment, the police, they find that really easy to just go with the flow. And it's the same thing with Andrew Tate, isn't it? Everyone in the establishment wants Andrew Tate shut down. The mainstream media wants him shut down. The police wants him shut down. The government wants. Wants him shut down. So what is the chance that Andrew Tate can get a fair trial anywhere in the world? Nil. And there has to be evidence. I mean, the thing that is so shocking, Rob, about so many of these political persecutions using the police, is that there is no evidence. So there is no evidence that Lucy Letby murdered any baby. Right. I am yet to see any evidence that Andrew Tate. Sex trafficked underage women, let's see. But I'm yet to see any evidence as well.

Similar?

Very.

Is there evidence?

Very similar. Absolutely nothing that I have seen. And if you look at Russell Brand, and he is the perfect example. It's really right that you raise him actually. Why was he not cancelled or investigated when he spent years working for the BBC which has covered up pedophile rings for years and years and years within its own organization? Why is it that Russell Brand is only targeted by the mainstream media and the establishment and the police when he speaks out against the narrative, when he speaks out against big pharma, when he speaks out against big tech control, when he speaks out against the war in Ukraine, he's targeted then. But when he was considered to be on the left working for the BBC supporting the establishment message, he was never targeted for his personal life with women. And again, by the way, I say this as someone who was highly critical of Russell Brand during lots of his so called shagger days because I loved Katy Perry, right? I thought she was amazing. In my, in my role as the bizarre editor at the Sun, I got to know Katy Perry and I thought she was amazing, really nice woman. And I thought Russell Brandt had actually treated her appallingly. But that's very different to being criminalized because you're a shagger. I mean, every woman in the industry seemingly wanted to shag Russell Brand at that time. And all of a sudden we're meant to believe that he's some sort of prolific sex offender? I mean, give me a break. And look at the BBC with Jermaine Genus as well, who is a very successful, handsome footballer. Yes, he sent some messages behind his wife's back. Shouldn't do that, should you? But he's been lumped in the same category by BBC management as Hugh Edwards, who is a pedophile in their midst, who they covered for, for two decades. I mean, the hypocrisy, the moral hypocrisy of the BBC is actually off the charts. If this organization, if the BBC was a private company, it would have been shut down decades ago. They have literally covered up for the worst pedophile in British history. And Jim Jimmy Saville, there was a pedophile ring operating for decades. Jill Dando, the very famous host of Crime Watch, who was murdered in the 90s, whose case has never been solved, was I believe attempting to expose the pedophile ring at the BBC. She ends up dead. We don't find out about what she knew or what she was investigating. Even now, even though her friends have spent the past 10 years raising this possibility. And then we find out the guy who they allowed to announce the death of the, the late Queen, Queen Elizabeth II was also at the Very least, accessing child pornography images at the time. I mean, it is a completely morally bankruptcy, corrupt organization. And yet they destroy their young mixed race presenter, Jermaine Genus, because he's sent a couple of saucy messages behind his wife's back. One of the most popular eligible young men in the country. I mean, I'm sorry, they are a joke organization and I can see what they're doing.

Let's talk about labor and taxes because.

Oh, no. Depressing. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna have. You're gonna be left with nothing. Rob, they hate you. Well, they really hate you. You were.

They hate me.

Successful independent businessman they are going to try and destroy.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. So they came in, no, we won't put up these taxes. No, we won't put up taxes. No, we won't put up taxes. I think 50 times, no, we won't put up taxes. And obviously you could see by the way he was saying it, he was giving himself a little out by using technical language. Income tax, blah, blah, blah, for working people. Well, billionaires are still working people. And now it looks like all the taxes are going up. He even said the October budget's going to be painful. He's blaming it on a black hole in the current, the previous administration. Even though he's spraying tens of billions to over to Europe for this and that and the other. What do you not.

Not to mention housing illegal migrants every single day, who he's allowing to come into the country. I mean, that's costing literally billions and billions of pounds a year. Look, I think Keir Starmer's a liar, and I don't say that lightly because I think all politicians flirt with the truth, shall we say. But I think Keir Starmer's a liar. I think they're very different things and there's a lot of track record of Starmer to back this up. So when he became the leader of the Labor Party, he ran on a hard left manifesto and he had 10 hard left pledges. And that was how he was able to win over the Corbinistas in his party and win enough votes to become leader. As soon as that happened, he pretended that he wasn't on the hard left, buried all of those pledges in order to be elected. Now, lots of people within Labour said, oh, this is the real Keir Starmer. He was just lying during the leadership election because he wanted to be palatable to the left. Now I was warning on my GB news show for years, no, no, no, no, that's the real Starmer. Starmer is a commie, you know, he, he, he's a communist type. He doesn't believe in independent wealth unless it's for him, by the way, because remember, he has a gold plated state pension because of his time working as Director of Public Prosecutions. When, by the way, let's just remember to link to our previous conversation, he did not charge Jimmy Savile, which we're all meant to forget too. We're only meant to praise Starmer for the positive things he did as Director of Public Prosecutions. But we're meant to not blame him for the fact that during his time in charge of the organisation, Jimmy Savile was let off. So make of that what you will, but no, he's coming for all of us who are trying to be independently successful, who are trying to launch small businesses, who are trying to send our kids to private school because the education system run by the state is so appalling. He is a true hard left guy and everyone was suckered in by him. But the problem is the Conservative Party allowed this to happen because I completely disagree with Peter Hitchens, whose argument was the Conservative Party is terrible, but we have to vote for them anyway because life under Starmer is going to be so bad. And I didn't do that, Rob. So I'm very open. This is the other thing. I'm very open with my vote because I believe journalists lie and try and hide their political allegiances. So I'm very open and honest with my audience about my vote because I think it's important that they know. And I supported Boris Johnson, voted for Boris Johnson, supported Liz Truss. I think she was treated terribly and effectively. They wanted her gone because she was about to challenge the deep state. I did not support Rishi Sunak. I thought he was a globalist shill who would destroy the Conservative Party. Or look at what happened. He was a globalist shill who destroyed the Conservative Party. So at the last election, I voted for Nigel Farage's party, Reform uk. It wasn't an easy decision because I did know that my vote was wasted. In a way, it was wasted in terms of actually electing an mp. But it sent the most important message to both the Conservative Party and the establishment that we are coming, a revolution is coming, reform is coming and it's going to be hard. And I love Nigel, but he's not perfect. And there are things that reform have to do, but there is so much anger and resentment out there about the state of our country. There is a realistic possibility that Reform UK could be in government by 2029, that Nigel Farage could be in Downing street by 2029. A lot has to go wrong and a lot has to go right for it to happen, if you see what I mean by that. A lot has to go wrong with the country. I think it will. But a lot has to go right. Faraj has to be like Trump. He has to be laser focused on this. It has to be his full time job. He has to be completely passionate because it's hard and he has to build up the party. It cannot be a one man band. Nigel is an amazing independent operator, but this is a big challenge. He needs strong candidates in every seat up and down the country. He needs a political operation behind him. It's not enough to just have his force of personality in a first past the post system and then we have to see what happens with the Conservative Party and actually it has to go wrong for them as well. But I think that's happening because I look at the Conservative candidates who are putting their hand up to become leader. I like a couple of them, I think a couple of them are good, but they're not actually talking the talk in terms of revolution, because that's what's required here. It needs to be such a bold plan to save Britain. And I think the only politician who has the strength of character and also the personal following to pull it off is Farage. Because Farage is our Trump. You know, he's hated in the same way that Trump is hated by the establishment, but he's beloved and he's powerful by the silence majority. So it's in his hands, though.

Yeah.

A lot can happen over the course of five years. We know that. I mean, five years ago, Boris Johnson thought he was hitting for three terms. So a lot can happen, a lot can go wrong, a lot can go right. And somehow the right in the UK has to be united as well. And of course the Conservative Party at the moment are going down this path of, no, no, no, we need to destroy Farage. Well, I think that's naive, but let's see. But for me, it wasn't enough to vote for the Conservative Party after they had betrayed us so badly, just because Starmer was going to unleash Mary hell.

So what's the solutions to this? I talk a lot about the things that are wrong in Britain. The police, the nhs, especially the economy, because that's my focus as an entrepreneur. And it seems we can get stuck in the narrative of everything that's Broken. What are some solutions? Obviously you've said reform and you know, the type of leader you think, what other solutions are there we can all focus on?

Well, I guess, like you look at it from an economic perspective, I look at it from a media perspective, and I think it's absolutely critical. The only way that revolution can happen is if there is a significant challenge in this country to the establishment. And what is the mouthpiece for the establishment? It's the mainstream media. So there's small things that people can do. Stop paying your license fee, Stop paying your BBC license fee. If we all do that. And by the way, that's going to save you, what is that now? 150 quid a year? I mean, it's ridiculously exorbitant amount of money. And I don't know, because, you know, I. Yeah, but, but use that money and support the independent media. Support your Katie Hopkins. Support the people who you feel give you a voice. Use that BBC money to help change the conversation in this country. And it is only the growth and the explosion of the independent media that will do that. That has happened in the us, by the way. Donald Trump ushered in a complete new era of the media. And if you look at the types of interviews that Trump does, he's doing.

A lot of podcasts. Absolutely. Yeah. And fun ones, not just serious ones.

Absolutely. Because where do people in America now get their news? Not from NBC, abc, cbs, cnn. We know they're lying to us, you know, but there, there, there are amazing alternative options that are well funded and well supported, and they are the people that will give Donald Trump a fair crack. And so I think we need that same sort of network in, in the uk. So I guess if you're saying, what practical things can people do? So for me, I'm not about going on the streets. That's not my approach. I understand that other people do. I respect some of the very positive protests, like, for example, the Uniting the Kingdom Day, which was hosted by Lawrence Fox and Tommy Robinson. I loved it. I, I didn't go personally, but I loved what I saw because there was absolutely no violence. It was an incredibly positive message. So Douglas Murray and Calvin Robinson, father Calvin Robinson, two friends who I respect a lot, they believe and keep telling me there has to be more of that peaceful protest. So I do support that. But be careful, because they are looking, the mainstream media and the establishment are looking for the tiniest example to deride your peaceful protesters violent and to lock you up. So if you're gonna do it, make sure it's entirely peaceful. Make sure you do it by the book. Don't give them what they want. But for me, I think, look at practical ways, enhance the voices that you respect, the alternative voices, the people who are speaking for you, but support them financially too. And I'm not saying that for me, by the way. I think there are lots of other brilliant, brilliant alternative voices. So I support people like Lotus Eaters. I'm. I'm signed up. There are another podcast platform that does really good work and I pay my subscription. Matt Goodwin, who's a brilliant substacker, who I. Who I pay for and support. Charlotte Gill, she exposes all of the Woke waste in terms. I mean, you'd love her, actually, because she is going through all of the government accounts and saying, here's the money that they're wasting. So I. I pay in support. Her podcast. Patrick o', Flynn, he's another brilliant independent journalist. I mean, if you go to my substack, actually, I recommend all of these people who I pay for every month because they are providing me the journalism that I need, not just to do my job, but to feel like there are people who are actually holding the government to account. You do not need the mainstream media anymore. You do not need to pay your subscription to the BBC. You do not need to pay to access the Daily Mail. So go and seek out those alternative voices, but then support them if you can, because I. I do get how tough times are and in fact, labor's only going to make them tougher, actually, because they're coming for you financially, they're coming. Whoever you are, they're coming back.

That needs to be the thumbnail.

Yes.

They're coming for you.

Ouch. And they are.

Yeah. Yeah.

In so many ways.

I agree.

They're coming for your speech, they're coming for your freedom, your money, by coming for your money. And they're coming for your kids in terms of infecting them with the mind virus.

Yeah. So on the note of money, there's. There's something I want to talk about. Like, it happened recently and it will go under the radar.

I'm not good with money.

I don't. No, no, no. But.

It'S very hard. I need someone like you in my life.

I'm in your life. Tesco just made 40 cafes cashless.

Yes.

They banned cash.

Oh, yes. I'm big on cash.

Yes. And I'm very scared of a cashless society because I think that's control on so many levels and people are just blissfully going, oh, but it's Convenient just to tap my phone, which it is. It is. But it's not really inconvenient for me to give you a tenner and you to give me a fiver back. And they're saying, oh, they want to reduce wait times. But what about all the elderly people? What about the people who don't have bank accounts? These millions of people who rely on cash, like literally rely on it. And then what about freedom and surveillance and, you know, social credit system and all this? What do you think of these big companies? Starbucks, you can hardly pay cash anywhere now. What do you think of this cashless society move? Is it a real thing? Should we be scared?

We should definitely be scared. And I guess I should put on the table that I used to get this one so wrong because I was all about the convenience. And actually, one of my heroes in life is Bjorn from Abba. And he's the nicest man, just absolutely love him. And he convinced me, actually that it was all about convenience. His son was mugged for cash. And, you know, he, he. There were lots of good principles behind was doing. So in 2020, I was like, okay, yeah, I get this. But my goodness, I was wrong because look at what Justin Trudeau did to the truckers.

Yeah. He literally took away their bank account, stole their money. Yeah.

A cashless society is so terrifying. So, as I say, I mean, over the past four years, I have become such a proponent for cash. I personally carry cash now. And I think people don't realize you have to be awake to the absolute tyranny of what a cashless society leads to. Because what does a cashless society lead to, rob? It leads to a social credit system, a Chinese style social credit system where the government can take away your money depending on how well you behave.

Because what's the easiest way to control you? Control your money.

Yeah, of course. And the thing is, even more than speech, and the thing is. Well, absolutely. And we joke, don't we, about them running out of prison places, but that is serious. That's happening. So there are other ways where they could punish you. Do you see what I mean? So maybe bad tweets or awkward posts on Facebook.

100 pound just went out your account.

Yeah. Or we're going to stop you accessing your savings for a certain period of time.

We don't need to leave the country. So we've frozen or capped. Capped the amount. Yeah.

And that is the way a social credit system works. So fight back. Support people where you can.

Independent businesses.

Yeah.

Buy from independent businesses, pay cash. Where you can, but it's hard.

It's hard because what you do when you go into Starbucks or. I don't know, I'm trying to think of something. Cash Joe and the Juice is a cashless place. And I like a Joe and the Juice shake.

Yeah.

So what can you do? And obviously. Well, I suppose an Uber and Amazon, all of those. Those outlets don't accept cash.

But I suppose it's like eating healthy. You're allowed to dessert every now and again. Although the majority of your behavior.

Yes. Although I do respect folk who say they just will.

No sugar. Yeah, they just.

Well, they just will not.

Yeah. And I really respect that.

And it's hard, though. I mean, trying to live a life only on cash now is hard.

Of course. And you need bank accounts and, like, you have your direct debits. And I. I get. I'm not saying I'm against bank accounts or banks.

They have a look at Katie Hopkins. She doesn't have a bank account. Now, we spoke about that, didn't we, on my show? Because she is so terrified, quite rightly, after what happened to her, of the government being able to take it away.

Well, yeah, look what happened to Nigel and his family. And he tried nine separate banks to open and could only go in public. Yeah. And Andrew Tate, they shut all of his banks down, his merchants, just before midnight on New Year's Eve, all at the same time. Well, that's what he told me. So that.

And that's why, again, I. I place a lot of faith, I guess, in Elon Musk, because what I hope he will do, you know, because, you know, he wants to turn X into an everything platform, which a lot of people are scared about. But for me, I'm not, because I want an alternative. And what I am confident in is that PayPal, his former company, will cancel Folk. And so if X becomes a payment alternative or an email alternative or whatever it happens to be, then there's less chance of. Of being in a place where there is no option. Because there have been sensible moves. For example, when Patreon canceled the Sargon of a card, Carl Benjamin, that's what sparked Dave Rubin in the US into creating Locals, which is now a really powerful platform for independent thinkers to be able to receive payments from their audience. So sometimes it's cancellation that actually creates something better, but it's not easy. No, ask Katie Hopkins, who's still being canceled at venues around.

Yeah, just happened to her, didn't it, in a church. And she, like, you know, I. I.

Talked to her a Fair bit.

And she was like, I can't. But I'm, I'm upset but they won't beat me. But I can't believe a church have done it.

Yeah, the Church of England. Yeah, the Church of England. I mean it was really chilling actually what happened to Katie Hopkins in terms of the cancellation because it was the Church of England, but they were encouraged by the Department of Media, Culture and Sport. That's the government, that's the Snivel service, that's the Blob, that's the establishment. And it's very terrifying when.

Yeah, what a fascinating time. I will just say one thing because you know, I do, I don't like too many labels, but I will label myself an entrepreneur. What an amazing opportunity for change to stand up, to speak out, to look at the solutions. Maybe decentralization, I mean media's needed this forever and you've been in it. And with decentralization, you know, you've got decentralization of money with bitcoin, decentralization of media with podcasts and you know, people like yourself and myself. And then of course the, the bigger players and it's messy and it's a bit of a scrap and you know, the, the legacy media are trying to shut you down. But in the end it becomes more democratized.

I hope so.

I love decentralization. As much as I'd love to go, I want to wipe out all my competition. I know my competition are good for me. You know, they keep me honest and real. And we, we must all push for decentralization, for competition, for free markets. Otherwise it'll be communism.

Well, absolutely. And that's why my biggest concern is now with the big tech problems and why I have a little bit of hope post musk and post sucker book. Because the thing is they control distribution now, don't they?

They've almost become the new media from the mainstream media before, haven't they?

Exactly. But you can look at in loads of fronts though, because when it comes to commercial products, obviously it's Amazon. When it comes to music and podcasts, maybe it's Spotify or Apple. So that's why it's very, very important that you, where you can you directly support the content that you consume as well because that then empowers. I mean some people don't need it, you know, maybe Joe Rogan, American Kelly don't need it. You know, they're happy to run on an advertiser funded model, but there are people you can support and things you can do to try and keep that ecosystem strong. But I hope that we will have distribution channels in the future, Rob, that that are formed on a basis of free speech. So, as I say, that's why I love X, but it's also why I've chosen to put a lot of my time in building a platform on Substack, because, oh, my goodness, I cannot tell you how amazing it feels to be part of a platform where free speech is at their very core and they do not give in to the cancel culture mob. Because once you've worked for organizations for me, the Daily Mail and GB News, that will literally throw you to the wolves, regardless of your success, regardless of your loyalty, regardless of what your viewers and readers want, because of the Mob, it becomes even more important to be on platforms where you are not going to be cancelled in that way. Now, do I feel that way about the platform that we're currently broadcasting on? Not yet, but I hope that in the future I will. I hope. The Zuckerberg letter marks a bit of a sea change, a bit of a change for the big players like Google and Facebook, but time will tell. And so that's why I've supported a smaller platform in Substack, because it's more important to me that they believe in free speech.

So here's an interesting question. I asked this a lot on the show. This would be good for you. Million quid cash there on the table now, or a million engaged followers. Which one do you choose and why?

Oh, that's really interesting. But I think a million engaged followers, so hopefully get me to that. And that's so interesting and that's so brilliant because it's about what you can do with that audience. That's what's powerful. And it's not about making money. I mean, for me, I. I mean, you'll probably be horrified by this role because you're an entrepreneur. So I'm, as I say, I'm really bad with money. I have never once in my life been driven by money. So for me, I'm driven by my work, I'm driven by what I do, and I just want the freedom to be able to do it. And that's what's so frustrating as a.

If you're good like me, good with money, it'll give you the freedom.

I know that. I know, and I do get that. And that's why, you know, I asked you for a lot of advice. We'll continue to do so. But I guess what I'm saying is I'm like, just leave me alone, you know, just give me the freedom. Stop trying to cancel me. It's frost. It's so frustrating because actually, just allow me to do what I do. It's not harming anyone. It's not a danger to anyone. It's empowering ordinary people to have a place where they feel like they're supported, they feel like they're listen to, they feel like they're not reported down. They're not reported down to. But we know that's not how the world's operating at the moment.

No, it's not. What's a secret you've never shared or a story you've never told?

I think people will be interested. Some people who have followed my career might be interested in this. I get, you know, you always get asked a lot what the people who you worked with were like. And I obviously worked with lorraine Kelly for 10 years, and I became one of her very close friends and was sort of like part of her family. You know, I would be there just before Christmas and at the family gatherings, and she has a very small circle. And as I say, I've only asked this because you're asking for a secret of something I haven't shared. And she never supported me when I started speaking my mind and went public. And that was really tough. I'm not gonna lie. That was really tough. And really, really tough. Disappointed. But I feel a bit bad for sharing it, but there you go.

But I think you shared it. You didn't criticize her. You shared how you felt.

Yeah.

Which I think is a respectful way.

Yeah.

To be. Well, you just shared your opinion, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that I. I imagine you could unleash a bit more if you want.

Yeah. It was just very sad for me because obviously she was incredible for my career for a long time and she supported me a lot. Lot. And I did amazing things on that show for 10 years, you know, flew around the world and interviewed the biggest names from Taylor Swift to Madonna. And, you know, it was a great time in my life. But when people talk about big celebrities and big names being about self preservation and not loyal, I, you know, I guess that's an example. But I. I share it because people do ask a lot. But as I say, I don't want to. She's a. She's a great woman in a lot of ways. And I think a lot of it shows, again, just that terror in the media, in the mainstream media, there's a complete terror that if someone's a bit controversial, you just run away from them. But the reason I think that it's really hard for me is I'm the opposite to that. And I'm not just saying that. You can, you know, anyone who knows me knows I am such a loyal person. I will never run from you just because you're in trouble or just because you've said something that people are angry about. And I'll speak up and support you publicly. So I wasn't surprised when a lot of people didn't do that for me. But it's disappointing because I think loyalty is the most important thing in life.

I suppose the, the thing with people is the more you expect of them, the more disappointed you end up being.

Expect nothing. That's something I've learned. Expect nothing. And just understand as well that a lot of people are fundamentally quite weak and it doesn't make them a bad person. It's hard to go against the grain. It's hard to stand up for someone who you might worry is going to pull you down. That's what people are fundamentally worried about. They are worried about having an association to someone who they think might damage them. But as I say, if there's one piece of advice I can give folk, having been cancelled and it's brutal, it's a horrendous, dehumanizing experience, is be there for when times are tough. You know, I've spoken a lot to people have been cancelled about this. I was having a conversation with Noel Clark about this the other day, actually. The actor.

Yeah, he's been my show.

Yeah, no, I've seen it and people are there when things are good. And he, and, and, and, and he posted about this, actually, and it was, I mean, I, I, he's on Substack, by the way. I really recommend people follow Noel Clark on Substack. He's brilliant and he was saying all of those people that were there when the times are good were the people that said, I'll always be there for you. We're like family and the moment they worry that you might in some way toxify them, they run. So my advice to everyone is be there for people in their time of need and don't worry about the fact that it's going to impact you. And this isn't about high profile people, by the way. I'm talking about. Just say one of your friends or family members happened to be arrested after the Southport massacre, happened to be one of those people who posted something inappropriate on Facebook or X. Don't run from them, be there for them, because it's tough.

Now, we normally do the disruptors Round, but we did it on the last episode, so I'm going to send everyone to watch the last episode where we did the disruptors round there. I also want to make sure that everyone flies over to Outspoken. I'm really pleased with how everything's gone for you. Your channel's blowing up and you've been on. I have, yeah. Thank you. I turned the tables.

You did, yeah.

I was actually. I mean, I'm totally not nervous in this place. And talking about business and entrepreneurship, obviously, that's more general news. So you met.

I was a little bit nervous. I even got you to talk about the Royal Family. You did? Ah, don't ask me. Dan.

What do you. Yeah, well, you know, I. I think it's. If. If nothing else, I think it's very sad how that family has just been ripped apart. Very sad. And.

And so quickly. I mean, we always knew it was going to be incredibly difficult after the death of Queen Elizabeth ii. I mean, how do you replace a woman like that? I. I feel privileged actually, to have lived through her reign.

What an amazing woman. Yeah, yeah.

And. And, and we live through an iconic reign. It's like people who live through the Victorian era and who would have been alive, born when Victoria was on the throne. And because life expectancy was. Was so much shorter back in Victoria days, most of them died with her still on the throne. And with Queen Elizabeth ii, I, she. You know, she was such an ingrained part of our society and most of our lives, as weird as that sounds, she just was. And also, she never put a foot wrong. And so I always knew it was going to be difficult, but obviously it's been a whole series of very unfortunate events in quick succession, some of them caused by the absolutely appalling behavior of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. So you've got that. But the health stuff, you know, to see both King Charles and Catherine, the Princess of Wales, struck down by really serious cancer within days of each other. Do you think we'll.

Will they both make it?

Yes, but I don't think either of them are well. And obviously for Charles, it's a real concern because of his age and. Look, Charles. I don't support a lot of what Charles does and I have been outspoken against him at times, but I absolutely respect him as king and I don't think he has put a foot wrong as king. He's been very careful, he's listened to advice on the whole, he stayed out of political issues, even when it came to Southport. The way that he dealt with it. Was pitch perfect. And I think it went against his instincts. And you've got to think, there's a cruel irony, isn't there? You wait to get the top job for seven decades and within a couple of years of having it, when you've got so much energy. He's always been so focused on his health because he knew that his mum would live a long time, fulfilled life, and he can't do the job because of. Because of cancer. It's very sad.

Yeah. And that makes the whole Harry thing sadder. So I wasn't going to talk about this on the show, but we'll have this as the last little bit because, I mean, you're one of the most informed people in the country, I think, on the Royal Family. I feel a bit like, nervous to say this, but my job is to kind of challenge and I think I partly believe this to be true. There's a part of the human side of me that has a lot of deep sympathy for Harry. I remember watching his mum's funeral and him and William walking behind, thinking, no young boy should ever have to go through that. And losing your mum that young must be so hard and would just mess you up. And so that. And then you know how the British media can be quite hounding. And I imagine his life wasn't made very easily. There's a part of me that has this sympathy for the guy, but then I go, well, look at William. He's not trying to break the Royal Family apart. Am I right to have any sympathy for him as a human, or is he just ruining everything?

Well, I think you can definitely have sympathy through about what he went through as a teenager, without any doubt. That was absolutely appalling. And as a result, he became the most popular member of the Royal Family. I mean, people forget Harry used to be in a few surveys and this was shocking at the time. He was the only Royal other than his own mother, who obviously was an icon, who sometimes would rate with the public as being more popular than the Queen, the late Queen Elizabeth ii, which is extraordinary.

Have quite a fun, cheeky personality.

And so the thing is, Rob, this guy, as a result of that. And it was. And as a result of his immense privilege. So, yes, it's terrible that he went through that tragedy in the public eye. But, Rob, come on. A lot of people in this world go through absolute trauma and horror as children and have to then pick back up and live their life. And they do it without the privilege and opportunity of Prince Harry.

Well, maybe his privilege is the problem because I look at privilege like that, and I don't think it's a privilege. I think it's a curse. I would hate to have been born in the royal family. I earned everything that I've got, and I sometimes wonder if that's a curse.

Well, I think it is a curse in a lot of ways, and I certainly would not want that life. So, again, I think it's possible to have sympathy and empathy for him over that. But you knew there was a guy. Tell me. Well, no, the but is I'm a real family man and nothing would ever come between me and my blood relatives, ever, ever. Now, I know not everyone has that relationship with their family, but Harry did. He had a unique bond with his brother, especially after what they went through. Yeah, it was rocky. It's rocky. A lot of sibling relations are rocky. But it was unique bond. And his dad had done his best as well in difficult circumstances. And when you think about what Harry has now done to his family, it's unforgivable. It is truly unforgivable. And the problem is now he's trying to worm his way back. And this was always going to happen.

Well, because he can run out of.

Money, probably run out of money, but also have regrets.

Yeah.

Basically, all of a sudden, he's starting to think about his father's mortality and thinking, goodness gracious me, I spent four years taking this guy to task at every opportunity. But I'm sorry you have to think about that. When you make decisions in life. Life is short. Look at what he did to William and Catherine. Catherine's then struck down with cancer. Yeah, but you're the one, Harry, who completely destroyed her or tried to destroy her in your book by releasing private text messages sent between him and between her and Meghan Markle. So the problem is, actions have consequences as adults. I would be very surprised if there was ever any form of proper reunion between William and Harry. But Charles is a different kettle of fish. He loves his son and he wants his son back, but that's not going to be popular. And the public don't want it. And the royal family, most of them, don't want it. So it's an. It's an interesting one. So, no, I think.

Do you think Megan was the single cause?

Not the single cause, but a huge contributing factor, without any doubt. I mean, you look at her track record in terms of cutting off relatives, cutting off close friends. I mean, I think that's weird and odd. I don't judge people, but I look at my life and I think who are still my closest friends, the people who I went to school with because they knew me before I gained any form of immigration for me or reputation. And they know the real me and I love them and I adore them. As a result, even though we have stark political differences, I'm so grateful to have those people in my life. And my family are everything to me. Well, she has no one from her past, apart from her mother. It's odd.

Do you think the monarchy will be gone in 50 or 100 years? Do you think it's.

No, but I think the jury is out slightly. But I think there's a lot more political revolution that actually has to happen in the uk, and I think that will come before even any discussion. I think actually our monarchy, I mean, I'm a monarchist, I'm a royalist, I would fight to keep it. And I think actually, we have so much to be proud of when it comes to our monarchy, and it gives us so much as a country, both financially, symbolically, but also in terms of our national spirit. It's an amazing thing to be able to unite around the Royal Family. And for a long time we have. But the Royal Family, of course, is subject to. Is subject to democracy, too. There are lots of ways that they could be removed in the future. But as I say, I think there is so much more that needs to happen to properly democratize the uk. So, for me, I would immediately look at the House of Lords, I would immediately look at the electoral system first past the post, having more elections. You know, there's lots of things I think that should come in terms of revolution or reform before anyone looks at the Royal Family. And I think William and Catherine have absolutely proven, too, that they leave the Royal Family in good shape. And I have a feeling their kids are going to grow up to be great young. Poo 2.

Thank you very much, Dan. Thank you.

It's been amazing.

Yeah. Thank you.

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